General Debate 23 September 2008

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Glutaemus Maximus

DPF, any chance you can slow down a wee bitty?

With the posts being so well commented on, I for one am finding it hard to keep up.

And I am retired!
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September 23, 2008 8:04am
homepaddock

Do you trust a woman who doesn”t trust polls but does trust Peters?
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September 23, 2008 8:27am
Nefarious

I give up on this fucking idiot ridden country.

If the dumb shits out there with their faces glued to the idiot box are incapable of recognising the smokescreen that is two HUGE stories regarding a non existent free trade agreement and a few shares in a shithouse train set then they deserve this corrupt bunch of cretins.

Hey look over there, a taniwha! (“Quick, Winnie, look innocent and keep quiet”)

I’m waiting for them to start releasing some of the scandal from the ridiculous thread concocted a few days ago, Labour voters will surely believe that John Key worships satan and regularly sacrifices cute fluffy animals to his overseas masters. Really, fucking come on, get a grip.

I see the headline has been “Free Trade Agreement With the US to bring billions into NZ” or bullshit along those lines. They are talking about talking about it, but don’t let that distract you.

Next on TVOne news, “John Key actually owned all Tranzrail shares and made a fortune by selling up to Thick Micky for 4 times their value, naughty John, bad John.”
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September 23, 2008 8:42am
Falafulu Fisi

I thought to share the Skeptics newsletter with DPF readers here. Vicki Hyde’s (NZ Skeptics Chairperson) newsletter of 22/09/2008 :

————————————————————————–

Here are the Bent Spoon and Bravo Awards for 2008:

Skeptics Give Police Thumbs Down

The NZ Skeptics Bent Spoon for the most irresponsibly gullible
statement in the media in the past year goes to Detective Senior
Sergeant Ross Levy of the New Zealand Police Force for promoting
psychics as “just another tool” in the investigative policing
toolbox.

“What´s next?” asks Skeptics Chair-entity Vicki Hyde. “Witness
testimony from dreams and pre-emptive arrests on the basis of
clairvoyant claims? The New Zealand Police Force has had enough
credibility problems in recent years without this sort of thing
making them look really shonky.”

Levy has helped the most recent public relations campaign for
“exploitainment” show Sensing Murder, making appearances on
television and radio to talk about his interest in seeing what the
psychics´ “take” was on an unsolved missing person´s case. It´s the
second time he has been involved in the programme and he told Radio
New Zealand´s Kathryn Ryan that he didn´t see any issue of police
credibility in supporting such an approach

Levy stated that the aim was to “give the investigation as much
exposure as possible in the hope of getting information in return”.
But Hyde says that this cheap exploitative alternative to
“Crimewatch” was unlikely to help, adding that the Sensing Murder
franchise has not been credited with providing any useful information
anywhere in the world. The Whatstheharm.net website, which counts the
costs of such claims, lists numerous cases where psychics erroneously
told families their loved ones were dead when they weren´t and vice
versa, causing anguish to the families, wasting police time and
sometimes pointing the blame at innocent parties.

“Sensing Murder is simply a marketing vehicle for the psychics and a
money-spinner for a television company keen to exploit vulnerable
families in the name of shoddy entertainment,” says Hyde. Deb Webber
now boasts of a five-year waiting list for her consultations and
performances. “But it´s even more disturbing to think that the very
people we expect to protect us from fraud or false accusations are
touting this industry. It doesn´t give you any confidence in the
police force if they think this is a reasonable approach to take in
solving serious crimes.”

Levy did admit that no new information had been provided by the
psychics, all material having been previously uncovered by ordinary
policing methods. Both Sensing Murder psychics had had previous
contact with the family in the case, but Levy had a confident “gut
feeling” that they had not elicited any information that way, having
their “credibility and integrity to protect”.

“I guess he didn´t see the Australian current affairs sting, played
here last year on Eating Media Lunch and available on YouTube,
showing Deb Webber talking with three dead people who didn´t actually
exist. Surely that says something very negative about her
credibility, but it looks like even basic background checks weren´t
done before the Detective Senior Sergeant allowed the Lower Hutt
police station to be used as a TV set.”

BRAVO AWARDS

Kathryn Ryan´s interviews with Webber and Levy, as well as other
items where she demonstrated critical thinking in covering science
and pseudo-science topics, has seen her given a Bravo Award by the NZ
Skeptics.

Raybon Kan, known for his lighter approach, also gained plaudits with
his Sunday Star-Times column “I see dud people”, wherein he stated” I
don’t want to get in the way of entertainers earning a crust, but
it’s scummy to pretend to communicate with the dead to take advantage
of grieving relatives”.

In another area of interest to the Skeptics, a third Bravo Award went
to the Royal Society of New Zealand for their 2008 Big Science
Adventure video competition focusing on the life and work of Charles
Darwin. However, the Skeptics took the unusual step of issuing a
brickbat for the same initiative.

“It was great to see such talented work celebrating Darwin and
evolution in the run-up to next year´s worldwide celebration of the
200th anniversary of Darwin´s birth,” says Hyde. “But many of our
members were dismayed to see our pre-eminent science advisory
institution commending one video which contained numerous errors of
fact in promoting the unscientific ideas of intelligent design and
creationism.”

The awards will be given telepathically at the NZ Skeptics Conference
being held in Hamilton from 26-28 September. The Bent Spoon is named
for the well-known parlour trick of psychic showman Uri Geller.

***

WHAT’S THE HARM?

The What´s The Harm website (http://whatstheharm.net/psychics.html)
tracks the damage caused by paranormal and pseudo-science claims,
listing reported cases that tally 3,254 people killed, 235,558
injured and over $455,070,000 in economic damages.

In its section on psychics, the website cites 1,315 people who were
harmed by someone not thinking critically with regard to psychic
claims. This includes the following cases relating to psychics´
claims regarding murders or missing people:

When nine-year-old Christine Jessop was abducted, psychics and
dowsers flooded the police with tips to her location. Meanwhile a
credible eyewitness report of a girl struggling in a car went
uninvestigated for weeks. An inquiry concluded the investigation was
botched. (Oct 1984)

Psychic Sylvia Browne told Audrey Sanderford that her granddaughter
had been abducted into slavery in Japan. In reality, the girl had
been murdered and her body was found buried near her home three years
after her self-confessed murderer was jailed. (1999-2003))

A paranormal remote viewing company announced that missing girl
Elizabeth Smart was dead and the location of her body was being
sought psychically. Not only were they wrong about her being dead,
they also caused a lot of wasted time for officials searching for the
body in the location they had “viewed”, and they incorrectly fingered
an innocent man. (2002)

Psychics Sylvia Brown and James van Pragh told Pam and Craig Akers
that their kidnapped 11-year-old son was dead, giving apparent
details of the location of the body and his last moments. He was, in
fact, found alive four years later. (2003-2007)

Australian Don Spiers, father of missing Sarah Spiers, said that
psychics had been “a huge torment to myself and my family in giving
cryptic clues as to where Sarah might be”. (February 2004)

“These are the stories that Sensing Murder and the tabloids don´t
tell you about because it hurts their own pocketbooks. If these
psychics really are able to talk to dead people, it would be the
biggest story of the millennium, not merely a basis for cheap nasty
exploitainment shows,” says Hyde.

***

CLOSURE OR OPEN WOUNDS?

In 1978 John Tate turned to psychics for help to find his missing 13-
year-old daughter. Here´s his experience:

We clutched at them desperately in the early days … But the promises
of the psychics were all lies. They raised false hopes in us. At
times we really believed we were onto something. The suggestions and
ideas preyed on our minds … But always, when it came to the crunch,
the so-called leads and ideas led absolutely nowhere but into a pit
of despair …

We soon found that the psychics who came up our garden path were
`foot-in-the-door´ types who, once they had wormed their way in, were
very reluctant to leave again. They were strong characters who were
not afraid to assert themselves. They rode rough-shod over our
feelings – which were in a desperate state already. In one week, our
emotions and normal grip on life had gone through a wrenching
upheaval, and the influence of psychics started to have an unpleasant
effect. Even when we didn´t want them they were there, on our
doorstep, always expecting to be met with an open door …
We discovered that the work of the psychics was not just ludicrous
and laughable. It was sinister and evil. Once we got into that web of
deceit – and that is what it was – we found it very hard to struggle
free. None of it ever led anywhere except to despair and
disappointment, misery and confusion. We had become enslaved to the
suggestions of the psychics.

>From Investigating the Unexplained by Melvin Harris, 1986

NZ Skeptics Inc
Box 29-492, Christchurch http://www.skeptics.org.nz
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September 23, 2008 8:46am
3-coil

Homepaddock (8:27am) – even the Labour Party’s largest cash donor (that we know of) Owen Glenn, does not trust Helen any longer!

She acknowledges that he is an “honorable gentleman” too, so we should trust his word – being so intertwined in Labour’s affairs, he will know the truth.
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September 23, 2008 8:46am
PhilBest

Nefarious (193) Vote: Add rating3 Subtract rating 0 Says:
September 23rd, 2008 at 8:42 am

“I give up on this fucking idiot ridden country.

If the dumb shits out there with their faces glued to the idiot box are incapable of recognising the smokescreen that is two HUGE stories regarding a non existent free trade agreement and a few shares in a shithouse train set then they deserve this corrupt bunch of cretins.

Hey look over there, a taniwha! (”Quick, Winnie, look innocent and keep quiet”)……”ETC

I like it, “Nefarious”.

I think there are signs of encouragement; NZ is just a few years behind the USA in the loosening of the grip of liberal leftists via the news media, over the wider public, through blogs like this one (take a bow, DPF, you are NZ’s closest thing to Matt Drudge)…….and of course, talk radio……note that we really are at a disadvantage through not having any equivalents of FOX News or the New York Post or “National Review” (or, for that matter, “The Australian”)…….but note “Investigate” spreading its efforts “into weekend news” via the “TGIF Edition”.

We really need to wake up to the evil of the Electoral Finance Act, as that was a natural measure on the part of the socialists to eviscerate the process by which their stranglehold on the public’s information flow was being threatened. I would badly like to see some serious money being spent by some public-spirited wealthy people in simply distributing information printed out off blogs, information that the media never gives us.
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September 23, 2008 9:40am
Nefarious

I’d like to see these childish, obfuscating wankers taken out the back and stoned by those of us they steal from and lie to.

When the organisations and people employed to enforce ethical, legal and moral behaviour are so corrupted by power hungry sociopaths something has gone wrong. Very, very wrong.

When people are too ignorant or distracted by petty sideshows to hold OUR government to account we are fucked. The jealousy and envy in NZ society is disgusting, but people are just too fucking stupid to look at those dictating to them and recognise them for the hypocrites and charlatans they are. Un-fucking-believable. Spoon fed bullshit.

These people aren’t leaders, they are intellectual thugs, preying on fear, dependence and conscience for no ones benefit but their own. Fucking arseholes.

I do not want my children growing up under this cancerous, evil regime.
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September 23, 2008 9:56am
noj

a winge!
David why have you started limiting the message in the rss feed? It is a pain when trying to read from my phone now!

Seem to get a few sentences in then …
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September 23, 2008 10:00am
philu

“..These people aren’t leaders, they are intellectual thugs, preying on fear, dependence and conscience for no ones benefit but their own. Fucking arseholes..”

..aren’t you being a bit harsh on national there..?..nefarious..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 23, 2008 10:07am
Nefarious

You know what phil, I’m probably not.

Unfortunately I do not know any acerbic enough adjectives to describe your lot and their patsies.

But shitheads like you are part of the problem, not the solution, so fuck off back to your crackhouse and kill what’s left of your brain and body. You are of no use to anyone, except for target practise.

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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September 23, 2008 10:10am
bearhunter

Nef – you’re not a morning person, are you? 🙂
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September 23, 2008 10:36am
philu

nefarious..are you redbaiters’ bastard offspring..?

phil(whar.co.nz)
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September 23, 2008 10:39am
Colonel Masters

Regarding Parliament’s new “Rainbow Room” and all those others mentioned in this story:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4702547a6160.html

How about a “Long Suffering Taxpayer” room to recognise *our* contribution to Parliament?
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September 23, 2008 10:40am
Colonel Masters

LOL at philu, I too had noted the similar posting styles.
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September 23, 2008 10:41am
Glutaemus Maximus

Philu,

Are you Greek then?

Have asked so many times.

I am narrowing down the area that you live in.

Won’t be long now.
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September 23, 2008 10:41am
Nefarious

you wouldn’t like my old man phil.

He knew how to raise responsible, hard working and educated children by setting a positive example and making huge sacrifices at no cost to society. I will never be able to show him enough respect or gratitude.

He also has awards from the Queen for skill, gallantry and bravery. He saves lives.

What have you or your family given back to society?
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September 23, 2008 10:45am
philu

are we playing..i’ve shown you mine..you show me yours..?

..pass..!

and glutty..

irish/scots/welsh..

(does that help..?..)

and gee..!..

is this an implied threat..?

“..I am narrowing down the area that you live in.

Won’t be long now..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 23, 2008 10:52am
Glutaemus Maximus

Philu, just thought that we were so similar.

As in we both have arms and legs!

😉
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September 23, 2008 11:06am
Richard Hurst

everyone knows..the place..

that philu..

..”lives”..

..the darkest..

..dampest..

..smellest..

..place..

..that ever was..

..he sits and sits and sits..on it..

..everyday..
😉
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September 23, 2008 11:08am
Glutaemus Maximus

What is best is the implied danger.

You just love to live on the edge.

I would happily take you there!

Are you Greek Freak?
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September 23, 2008 11:09am
Glutaemus Maximus

How do you like the idea of a really happy chappy ripping off your head and shitting down your neck?
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September 23, 2008 11:11am
Glutaemus Maximus

Philu,

Your card is marked.

Bored to f**k with you, and about to snap.

However being criminally insane, love what you are doing here!

I have a better idea.

Perhaps you would really prefer to have your eyeballs popped out and have a bit of a skullfuck!

The dead ragheads loved it!
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September 23, 2008 11:20am
Glutaemus Maximus

Philu, have you ever been in cold dark water?

It really is good fun!
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September 23, 2008 11:24am
PhilBest

I have come to the conclusion, and want to keep warning everybody, about “philu”; that he is a paid troll of the socialists; with the purpose of provoking right-wingers into making comments that will be saved as evidence by the said socialists for the day when they intend to introduce controls and surveillance on the Internet and blogs – and punitive sentences for “hate speech” offenders. Actually, OUR socialists are actually lagging behind the bloody nutcase Scandinavians in this respect……
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September 23, 2008 11:25am
PhilBest

So watch out, Glutaemus!!!!!!!
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September 23, 2008 11:29am
Glutaemus Maximus

Bothered?

Philu has qualified for the best time of his life.

He will only find the experience challenging.

Bet he can’t wait.

Maybe a high level individual in disguise.

The hunt is on.
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September 23, 2008 11:42am
Glutaemus Maximus

Advised not to travel to Europe, Canada, Georgia, or the good old USA!

In the meantime, whilst sitting on a beach!
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September 23, 2008 11:49am
pdm

I fail to see what the inane dialogue between philu and Glutaemus Maximus adds to this debate.

Why don’t you both shove off somewhere else.
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September 23, 2008 12:02pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Fuck off PDM. This is now personal.
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September 23, 2008 12:12pm
Rex Widerstrom

Falafulu Fisi quotes:

“What´s next?” asks Skeptics Chair-entity Vicki Hyde. “Witness testimony from dreams and pre-emptive arrests on the basis of clairvoyant claims?

What’s next? She hasn’t been keeping up. Witness testimony from “dreams” (aka “recovered memories”) has been used by Mr Plod the world over to lock up many an innocent man.

And arrests based on claims with all the credibility of those of a clairvoyant… well they’re not uncommon either. I should know, I was arrested on the basis of a single ucorroborated allegation.

The Skeptics level of skepticism is actually inadequate when it comes to Mr Plod.

On a slightly different note… Glutaemus Maximus, threatening philu with physical harm only feeds the myth of “the Kiwiblog right” that’s put about the place and, to me at least, devalues your other comments (which I tend to read with interest). And in any case, I find mockery (as Richard Hurst demonstrates above) to be a much more effective tool. Not that I mock phil since sometimes (as with his comments the other day on social disparity) I agree with him, so it’d be hypocritical of me.

Damn, you’ve got me sounding like Peter Dunne again.

So let me put it another way: I know this is DPF’s place, but we’re both invited guests and I’d rather you didn’t start a fist fight and spill the onion dip down my shirt 😀
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September 23, 2008 12:14pm
bearhunter

Phil U annoys the piss out of me. He’s a bone idle bludger, but Glutaemus, your “I’m coming to get you” schtick is equally tiresome. You’re not Charles Bronson, so just drop the Secret Avenger bollocks will you?
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September 23, 2008 12:18pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Sorry comrades, but the red mist descended.

I apologise profusely.

Will just watch and wait.

philu (3293) 1 10 Says:
September 23rd, 2008 at 10:39 am
nefarious..are you redbaiters’ bastard offspring..?

phil(whar.co.nz)

Can’t help my temper, being a criminal insane mental bastard. The warders said they were the nice things in my personality.

Sorry philu, would you like me to shag you instead?
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September 23, 2008 12:22pm
Captain Crab

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4702525a28.html

Looks like the FBI know how to track down email hackers. I guess we are lucky we also live in a country where the Police are free to investigate theft without political interference-oh wait…

Glut, the best revenge is to live well. Go and buy yourself a bottle of Veuve and some crayfish and have a good nosh.
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September 23, 2008 12:42pm
labrator

Got this great quote in the moneyweek.co.uk newsletter.

Why we should let the market set interest rates
What’s the solution? Ideally, I’d say just ditch central banks and let the market set interest rates. Central banks, regardless of how ostensibly independent they are, are instruments of the government. The government wants happy voters, and free money makes people happy. So there’s always the temptation to keep the money flowing freely.

The market on the other hand, couldn’t care less what voters think. One feature of the credit boom is that most people in the City and on Wall Street knew it couldn’t last forever, and they had a hunch it would blow up in a very unpleasant way. But they couldn’t stop playing along, because they had to compete with their peers. However, if markets set interest rates rather than governments, then arguably this mood of rising concern among the participants, would be reflected in the price of money long before things got out of hand. Anyone who had overplayed their hands would run into trouble long before they became “too big to fail”.

The alternative is that we decide that banking is such a vital part of our infrastructure, that it cannot be left to the market. And if it really is the case that “banking is too important to be left to the bankers,” as Roger Bootle argues in today’s Telegraph, then there’s no choice. We have to turn it into a utility. And just like with the water and power regulators, we need a big domineering regulator, who tells them how much profit they can make and how much they can charge us, and in return we get a government-backed banking system.

I know which option I prefer. But I suspect that by the end of this crisis, we’ll be left with some half-hearted mish-mash which will simply sew the seeds for the next boom and bust.

This seems so true to me. I don’t have link for the full article as it seems to be only on email but they also mention that they’re sick of the phrase “death of capitalism” that unintelligent reporters keep wheeling out. Central banks caused this mess, now they’re forcing all tax payers, regardless of whether they were intelligent and kept out of the mess they saw, by bailing out these firms. Capitalism demands these businesses fall on their swords, governments demand that tax payers pay for their interference. And yes, this includes the Republicans in the States.
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September 23, 2008 12:43pm
gd

We should embrace PuliU to our collective bosom and radiate love and good karma and wrap him around our warmth For he brings a new perspective a new dimension to our discourse on the great affairs of state.

Dont chastise him Show him that we of the RIGHT are free and open to new ideas.

And when he doesnt agree with us THEN KICK THE BASTARD IN THE SLATS
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September 23, 2008 12:47pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Tried Rodeurer Cristal in Crete for our 25th anniversary.

Crazy money. Nice, but prefer Sekt, or bubbles from Spain.

Off there in the morning.

Going to have a laugh with Scampi on my return.

Only because i truly believe that WP is going down!

Might have to have some lovely NZ fizz!

And Scampi!
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September 23, 2008 12:48pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Sorry chaps and chapesses.

I wear my heart on my sleeve.

Typical Lancastrian.

I promise to get better.

One day soon. The real Problem is that so many Kiwis have no idea how good it could be!

Get shut of the oppressive regime, and it is truly happy days!
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September 23, 2008 12:59pm
peterwn

There is a suggestion floating around that the current polls showing National doing well are lopsided because disproportionately few ‘workers’ are polled since they are at work when the polls are taken.

Read that any way you want.

Funny that the 2002 polls were not similarly lopsided but proved to be pretty accurate.
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September 23, 2008 1:02pm
serge

And now the rainbow room, for all the queers to gather selectively, we already have the asian room, maori room, another maori of some sort room, a pacific affairs room and a suffrage room, so there is no room for the majority (or should be) of white male or female heterosexual room, now I can see clearly that we as europeans are being discriminated against in a big way!

If this constitutes the journey to full citizenship, things have surely changed since I became one in 1973, I was not asked then to pull my trousers down or to perform some other degrading act in order to fulfill my journey to full citizenship. So Margaret Wilson, tell us all, what did you do to become a speaker of such dishonorable house?
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September 23, 2008 1:34pm
bearhunter

“I was not asked then to pull my trousers down or to perform some other degrading act in order to fulfill my journey to full citizenship.”
Cal,m down, Serge. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to drop your daks now either. While I can see the point of your first paragraph, the second has me bemused.
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September 23, 2008 1:48pm
PhilBest

The best revenge on “philu”? Some rightwinger should take Philu’s son under his wing and turn him into a success story, a top-tier taxpayer and a staunch ACT party member and donor….
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September 23, 2008 4:01pm
dad4justice

I could say something about phoolu, but I won’t, as a 4 month stint in the bin is not my cuppa of tea.
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September 23, 2008 4:19pm
Right of way is Way of Right

Will the MSM wake up to the fact that they have been used by Labour, and perhaps they should be finding thier own stories instead of being spoon fed from the spin doctors on the ninth floor!
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September 23, 2008 4:37pm
llew

turn him into a success story, a top-tier taxpayer and a staunch ACT party member and donor….

Now now, you can’t have it all ways.
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September 23, 2008 4:48pm
dad4justice

Why llew? I mean to say Mike Moore has had it both ways.
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September 23, 2008 4:54pm
philu

shit..the campaign has only being going a week..

..and key is on campbell..

..looking shell-shocked..

..(i almost feel sorry for him..)

he is on one in two minutes..

..this is ‘trainwreck telly..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 23, 2008 7:07pm
philu

oohh..!!..i’m behind the desk..watching through barely parted fingers..

..has he shaved 5-7% off his/nationals’ support..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 23, 2008 7:18pm
philu

and..i’ve seen that commentator arsenau a few times..

..she really blows it out of somewhere….

,,phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 23, 2008 7:23pm
Interested Party

I had an automated poll ring me up the other night, did my vote, then it rang me again two minutes later – I have no recollection whether I voted once or twice for national lol
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September 23, 2008 10:00pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Nefarious says at 8:42 am:

I give up on this fucking idiot ridden country.

That’s the only rational action.

It’s also the the choice of a new generation. You Can’t Beat the Feeling.
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September 23, 2008 11:08pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Nefarious says at 9:56 am :

I’d like to see these childish, obfuscating wankers taken out the back and stoned by those of us they steal from and lie to.

The opposition benches are the next best thing in terms of punishment. Tick tock goes the clock and not a thing to do. 😀

As for Labour’s supporters, turn off the flow of cash from the state (taxpayers) to their pockets and listen to them scream. Does anything else sound quite so divine?
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September 23, 2008 11:16pm
Rex Widerstrom

llew: Touché… Well, I sniggered anyway 😀
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September 24, 2008 2:20am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Here’s a question, if Bill Clinton gets it, why can’t those on the desperate left?:
Bill Clinton: ‘I get why Palin’s hot’
By their own actions the desperate left are virtually pushing McCain straight into the White House. I’ve fine with McCain winning. It’s exactly what New Zealand needs.

The Left are going to feel mighty foolish though.
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September 24, 2008 2:38am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

The DIRTY LEFT at it again:
Student suspect in Palin hacking

“The son of a Democratic politician”

The son of a something alright.
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September 24, 2008 2:41am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Winston says he’s stuffed:
Peters: I’ll leave it to the voters to decide
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September 24, 2008 5:13am

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