General Debate 24 September 2008

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

Only six weeks to go until Hels is out the door.

Are you ready to celebrate yet?
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September 24, 2008 8:04am
expat

Mmm, peanut butter in toast with sliced tomato and cracked pepper.

Bye Hulun.

Hulun ranks below a good piece of toast at my house.
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September 24, 2008 8:11am
kevin_mcm

Dont know what other peoples experiences are, but I am finding quite a few people who do not like John Keys. They are typically historically Labour, which may explain some of it, but at times he comes across badly (eg this week) and he needs to get that sorted. One interesting comment from a long time Labour supporter – will vote National this election as they have to get rid of Helen, then back to Labour next electtion.
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September 24, 2008 8:17am
Hagues

“Are you ready to celebrate yet?”

Heck no. Don’t start counting chickens yet. I wont be ready until all the votes are in and Act/National are declared the winners.
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September 24, 2008 8:20am
petal

Anyone see Paul Henry go feral on John Key on Breakfast this morning? It was a mauling. In the end Key did the best he could under the circumstances. Except for the huge smile right at the end. (“Make sure you smile John”) – it looked luke smug relief. Oh well, at least he’s trying. Looks like Henry was trying to prove he could be tough by going over the top. Wouldn’t let Key answer a question as soon as he detected it was going to be an answer he didn’t find acceptable. In the end Henry offered his own answer about Key: “You’re honest but have poor judgement”. Hmmm. An honest idiot. NZ’s been quite happy to have clever crooks running the show. How will they accept an honest fool? Let’s hope National can win back the initiative today. I think Key has to start thinking short answers. The longer ones he’s not getting time for. Sound bites John.
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September 24, 2008 8:22am
farfetched

Did anyone else find Paul Henry’s performance on breakfast an absolute disgrace?

Having said that JK really needs to grow some cajones.
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September 24, 2008 8:22am
farfetched

yes petal 😐
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September 24, 2008 8:24am
Nefarious

I don’t know about other peoples experiences, but personally it really fucks me off when people don’t even have the grace to spell my name correctly. Even if they want to form a prejudiced opinion of me, based on the smears of morally bankrupt liars and hypocrites.
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September 24, 2008 8:24am
expat

National need to get some feral black dog up them – its party time now.

Paul Henry is a preening fuckwit, but I guess he is media.

Key needs to harden the fuck up.

And sound bites- yes petal, lets hope labour fm fat boy plunkett is now the nats media advisor.
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September 24, 2008 8:25am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Politics is so much easier in the UK thanks to First Post the Post.

Labour is well and truly stuffed in the UK. New Zealand should go back to FPP.
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September 24, 2008 8:36am
Nefarious

NZ least corrupt alongside Denmark, Sweden
5:00AM Wednesday Sep 24, 2008

New Zealand has retained its top ranking as a nation free of corruption. In this year’s results from an annual survey made by Transparency International, New Zealand, Denmark and Sweden tied for first place.

Did Helen fill out the survey for them?
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September 24, 2008 8:37am
kiwipolemicist

Labour is giving John Key a hard time over the Tranzrail shares, which is utter hypocrisy and a diversion tactic. This is a conflict of interest, and a minor one at that, not actual corruption as is rife in Labour. Yesterday National Socialist Radio was grilling him: how many times can a man say “I made a mistake”. Unlike Helen he does admit his mistakes: I don’t support National policies, but Key does get brownie points for admitting that he made a mistake.

Helen’s approach to mistakes is to bury the evidence, or lie about it, or shift the blame onto someone else, or all three.

Expat: Helen ranks alongside doggy-doo in this house: both are objectionable and annoying if they get in the way of progress, and both stink.

http://www.kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com
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September 24, 2008 8:37am
philu

paul henry just stuck a blowtorch down keys’ y-fronts..

..and gave him third degree burns..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/kudos-to-paul-henrytodays-must-watch/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 24, 2008 8:39am
WraithX

I would much prefer to see Gerry Brownlee as head of National. Oh well – one day maybe.
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September 24, 2008 8:44am
philu

shall we start a ‘draft gerry!’ movement..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 24, 2008 8:46am
petal

It’s almost as if the media feel guilt that they have not focused on National for so long because of the Labour/Winston train wreck, that they are over compensating on what is essentially not that big a deal.
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September 24, 2008 8:56am
Nefarious

Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) : Mr Peters continues to stand aside from his portfolios.

John Key: Does the Prime Minister stand by her statement in the House on Tuesday, 26 August, that she accepts Mr Peters’ word “unless something arises out of the Privileges Committee …”, and does she not see that the Privileges Committee’s clear finding that Mr Peters committed a contempt of Parliament, quite clearly comes within her definition of something arising from that committee?

Rt Hon HELEN CLARK: I certainly will not listen to any lectures on truthfulness from that member, after yesterday’s revelations.

John Key: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the Privileges Committee has heard evidence from Labour’s biggest donor, Owen Glenn, from Mr Peters, and from his lawyer, and clearly accepted the evidence of Mr Glenn—the Privileges Committee accepted the word of Mr Glenn but not that of Mr Peters or of the lawyer—but that she has been happy to accept the word of Mr Peters over those people? Why is that?

Rt Hon HELEN CLARK: There is one person’s word I cannot accept—it is the word of that member to the public and the media.

What a pathetic performance from a clearly corrupt has been.
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September 24, 2008 9:01am
philu

and one of you demented righties sent henry an email..

..accusing himof being a ‘leftie’..

..(heh-heh..!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 24, 2008 9:03am
Paul

So when is John Key going before privileges committee?

Oh that’s right ACT’s Hall Monitor won’t squeal on him, he wants a job soon.

Pathetic. It’s not as if the media has to focus on National, it’s that the glorious leader has LIED to us almost as many times as Winnie.

Seriously, what is the difference between the two of them, smug smiles and lying to the public and parliament?
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September 24, 2008 9:03am
Tauhei Notts

It’s general debate so I can put this piece here.
Tax Cuts from 1st October.
The tax rate on interest is dropping to about 17.05% on the first $38,000. The resident withholding tax rate on interest is staying at 19.5%. Only National voters get interest so stick it up them.
The tax cuts next Wednesday are quite significant, but there is no cut to the withholding tax rates. These withholding payments are now called Schedular Payments. Withholding taxpayers are predominantly National voters so stick it up the bastards.
This politicisation of the tax system is deplorable.
The complexities brought into the tax system by bringing these cuts in half way through a financial year are mind boggling.
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September 24, 2008 9:12am
Gooner

This is frightening me, but does anyone else see the similarities between Brash circa 2005 and Key circa 2008?

How come the Nats don’t seem to have learnt a single thing about discipline and control?

Let’s hope Key doesn’t concede the day after the election like Brash did.
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September 24, 2008 9:13am
PaulL

Paul: I think you’ll find that any MP can lay a privileges complaint. Nobody from NZ First, Labour, Greens, Maori or United seem to have done so about John Key. Any reason why that is? Oh, I know. It’s a media beat up with no substance. Even Helen Clark admitted there was no substance.
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September 24, 2008 9:21am
labrator

Oh that’s right ACT’s Hall Monitor won’t squeal on him, he wants a job soon.

I’m sure if there was any way that John Key could’ve been had up for his Tranz Rail shares then any one of Helen’s cronies would’ve complained. Fact is, he hasn’t done anything wrong. The worst thing about this is that Labour’s FUD policy is working for them. Grow some balls National, I want a country that moves forward positively not one that is decided on picking the least worst party.
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September 24, 2008 9:21am
Craig Ranapia

Did anyone else find Paul Henry’s performance on breakfast an absolute disgrace?

Having said that JK really needs to grow some cajones.

No, someone really needs to tell Paul Henry that he’s got to stop waving his cock around on-air because nobody wants to see it. I don’t know why Key or Clark bother wasting their time as stooges to Henry’s increasingly bizarre monologues. I, for one, think Georgina Beyer deserves a title (and honorary life membership in the National Party) for keeping this fuck-tard out of Parliament where he might have done some real damage.

So when is John Key going before privileges committee?

Well, you should ask Doctor Cullen why he didn’t lay a complaint at the time in accordance with Standing Orders.

Meanwhile, does anyone want to speculate over what the hell Chris Trotter is on — http://www.policy.net.nz/blog/2008/09/24/a-tawdry-spectacle/
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September 24, 2008 9:24am
Nefarious

By the look of Trotter I’d say copious amounts of fried foods, Guinness and commie propaganda.

As for Paul Henry, a breakfast tv presenting prat for the masses, he’s always come across to me as incompetent and confused. In more ways than one.
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September 24, 2008 9:36am
slightlyrighty

I’ve not seen Paul Henry’s interview so can’t comment. But it was only a few days ago many were thanking him for hauling Helen over the coals re the Peters affair. I can’t help thinking that if we had more like him, Helen would be shitting bricks every time she steps out of her office. More people in the MSM need to be asking the hard questions and not taking spin at face value. TVNZ need to step back and take a look at why Labour spoon-fed this whole share issue to them in the first place.
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September 24, 2008 9:38am
Chicken Little

I think the ‘Trade Deal’ and the ‘JK -baby eater v4.7’ memes have worked very well for Labour.

I have to admire their bollocks for pulling it off, but both stories will be off the front pages (except for at the Stranded 🙂 ) tomorrow.

Winston’s here to stay until he retires – forever reminded and reminding of the depths some people will go to to remain in power.

With the SFO, Police and hopefully IRD investigations still to come it really is a gift that will keep on giving.

The Nats just need to hold their nerve.
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September 24, 2008 9:40am
siobhan

RE: Paul Henry (and I wouldn’t normally defend him or any other media commentator but…)

You would do your balls at John Key too if you thought his apparent naivety was going to mean you were going to have to face Helen Clark every Monday morning for another 3 years.

Given Paul’s obvious politics, it must not be a thrilling prospect.
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September 24, 2008 9:50am
gd

Dont be harsh on Paul Henry He is merely an employee of the STATE BROADCASTER iand is following orders from his masters

he reads from a script carefully prepared by his political masters right down to the instructions of when he is to appear angry.

he is a muppet puppet Nothing more nothing less Along with the blonde bimbo airhead that sits next to him every morning and nods like one of those dogs in the back windows of cars
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September 24, 2008 10:00am
philu

“..Dont be harsh on Paul Henry He is merely an employee of the STATE BROADCASTER iand is following orders from his masters

he reads from a script carefully prepared by his political masters right down to the instructions of when he is to appear angry..”

classic..eh..?

..and the funny thing is..he.she really believes this shit..

..(time to put on thr aluminium-foil hat..!..gd..!..the ‘voices’ will be starting soon..!.)

brilliant..!

..and all in his/her own words..eh..?

..farrar accused me the other day of ‘taunting’..you righties..

..but i can in no way match the self-taunting of the likes of the gd/pushy/glutey/ratty/daddy..etc etc..

..all such good advertisments for rightwing thought eh..?

(what was gluteys ‘pearl’ from yesterday..?

..that he was going to put me in ‘dark cold water’/’get’ me/pop my eyes out and skull-fuck me.?…(‘the rag-heads loved it’..apparantly..)

..d’yareckon i might get some ‘off-topic-demerits’ for saying anything approaching that level of threat/abuse..?

..but it’s ok if righties do it..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 24, 2008 10:19am
big bruv

IMHO Paul Henry did nothing more than his job, Henry is one of the very few who will ask the hard questions of dear corrupt leader, yes he might have been a bit harder on Key than he has yet to be on Clark but I have a feeling she is about to come under the same blowtorch as Key experienced this morning.

The blame for the way Key performed is Key’s and Key’s alone, he HAS to learn fucking quickly that he MUST take control of these interviews, dear corrupt leader would not have let Henry talk over the top of her, she would have made sure got her message across irrespective of the questions and she would not have let Henry’s ego be the “star” of the interview.

The way to deal with Henry (and any other member of the media) is this, as soon as he asks a question you start to answer it with the message you want to give and if Henry interrupts then you simply say….

“Paul, you asked me a question now please let me answer it”,

if Henry fires another question at Key he should keep coming back to the points he wants to make….

“Paul I am happy to answer any questions you may have but lets address them in a orderly fashion, now you raised the issue of trust and I am more than happy to put my record up against Helen Clark’s any day of the week, she was the woman who stole $880,000 of your money……..Paul, please let me finish…..etc…”

Henry offered Key two life lines during this interview that he has not and would not offer Clark, Henry said “John, you ARE an honest man” Key should have seized on that and taken the opportunity to launch into the murky and corrupt dealings of the Labour party, Henry also said “Clark is a better politician than you John” to which Key replied “No”, that was a golden chance missed IMHO, Key should have answered that point with…….

“If being an better politician means keeping Winston just so she can keep the reigns of power then so be it, if being a better politician means stealing $880,000 of tax payer money and then legislate to make that theft legal then so be it, if being a better politician means keeping the people of NZ in the dark about the illegal affairs surrounding the Owen Glenn donation saga when she knew about it six months ago then so be it, if that is the standard that one is judged on to be a good politician then I am happy to say that Clark is better at deception and dishonesty than I am, I (Key) am focused on fixing the problems that we face as a nation, I give you my word that we will not lower the office of government or the office of the PM to such low levels if we are lucky enough to be in a position to form a government”

I have no idea who Keys media people are but they should all be sacked immediately, he cannot keep making fuckups like this, yes he IS honest and yes he IS the best person to be PM of NZ (only because the other real option is corrupt) but he just has to get this media stuff right, he could do a lot worse than watch tape after tape of the way dear corrupt leader handles the media.
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September 24, 2008 10:19am
baxter

Liabour seem to be going to extreme lengths to protect PETERS, holding back the Key Share Trades and news of the so-called proposed FTA with the USA in order to successfully take the heat off the logical outcome of the Privileges Committee hearing.
As for Key’s share trading transaction all I can say as one who dabbles in the market, I wouldn’t have a clue on the number of shares I hold in some companies right now, without researching the records, and wouldn’t be able to recall the names of companies I traded in 5 years ago. Its like knowing how much you had in the bank on a specified date.
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September 24, 2008 10:47am
PhilBest

# Hagues (202) Vote: Add rating 4 Subtract rating 0 Says:
September 24th, 2008 at 8:20 am

“Are you ready to celebrate yet?”

“Heck no. Don’t start counting chickens yet. I wont be ready until all the votes are in and Act/National are declared the winners.”

I keep getting nasty suspicions that Helen has a “Plan B” and a “Plan C” and a “Plan D”…….. like, some monstrous frame-up of the Nats the day before the election; like, rigging election results; like, declaring election results null and void under technicalities, alleged breaches of electoral law by her opponents; like, declaring a state of emergency under some pretext; etc, etc……….

Any comments?
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September 24, 2008 11:06am
Paul

Your great leader is a lying bastard and the media did it’s job pointing it out. End of story. No sideshows about left wing media bias, socialist reporters blah blah blah.

Watch the video of his backtrack with the TV One reporter and tell me he’s not a lying bastard (as they say out west).
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September 24, 2008 11:11am
Paul

Bazter, buzz wrong answer sunshine. Because of his position the rules change and he needs to know.

“In one eight-week period, Mr Key asked written and oral questions in Parliament, lodged an Official information Act (OIA) request to Dr Cullen, bought 50,000 shares in his own name, met Rail America, complained to the Ombudsman about his OIA and then sold his personal holdings, nearly doubling his money in the process.” ODT today.

Good look eh
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September 24, 2008 11:14am
gd

Ever seen Henry ask Clark any hard questions No he just sits there fawning and forelock tugging and accepting everything and anything she says.

Hes had plenty of chances to expose her but never ever done so.

Why didnt he get in on and ask her about the statements she made regarding the PC BEFORE she found out the SFO was investigating.

She said that she would wait for the PC decision and whether Peters was able to convince the PC he was innocent

Then when she found out the SFO were investigating it all suddenly changed

the PC was divided along party lines except for the Labour and NZ1 parties who went in without any preconcevied ideas and only made their decision based on a careful consideration of the evidence

Henry has acess to all the media footage and all her statements yet he refuses to get in and ask the 3rd question.

Why???? Because hes too scared of upseting her that why hes a littlke gutless wonder
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September 24, 2008 11:15am
Owen McShane

Will We Be the Lone Traders?

Climate change fears after German opt-out
By Chris Bryant in Berlin, Fiona Harvey in London and Tony Barber in Brussels
Published: The Financial Times, September 22 2008 16:43 | Last updated: September 22 2008 16:43

A German government decision to back an almost total exemption for industry from new rules that would force companies to pay for the carbon dioxide they emit threatens to undermine a key tenet of European Union climate policy, climate campaigners warn.

The decision is a victory for German industry, which feared European Commission proposals for an auction of carbon emission permits would cost billions of euros and restrict its ability to compete internationally.

Angela Merkel, chancellor, warned recently that although she supported the need to tackle climate change, she “could not support the destruction of German jobs through an ill-advised climate policy”.
Climate campaigners said the move would open the door to a slew of objections from other states seeking to protect their own key industries during the next phase of the EU emissions trading scheme (ETS).

“There are a lot of countries that want to protect their own industries without the economic arguments to back this up,” said Joris den Blanken, senior policy advisor at Greenpeace.

The European parliament’s industry committee last week voted to replace the current free distribution of carbon-dioxide permits with a mandatory auction between 2013 and 2020 in a bid to help cut European greenhouse gas emissions by 20 per cent from 1990 levels.

The proposals are likely to face a vote at a plenary session of the parliament later this year but must then be ratified by the heads of member states.

The German government is not alone in seeking opt- outs. Poland is anxious that auctioning could severely affect its power companies while Italy is pushing for free carbon permits for specific sectors.

After months of internal wrangling, Germany has accepted that from 2013, power companies, including those that construct new power plants, should take part in the auction process.

However, because this is expected to lead to higher electricity costs, the government is to insist that energy-intensive industries like aluminium producers should be compensated with free carbon permits.

Germany will also push for an exemption for large emitters like the steel industry, subject to these companies using the best available emission control technology.

Remaining companies would have their purchase of certificates capped at 20 per cent of total emissions.

The German government defends its stance by claiming there is a risk of carbon-emitting industries relocating to countries where they would be free to pollute.

“As long as European companies are governed by stricter climate protection regulations than their competitors in countries like China, we have to seek to establish special rules,” said Sigmar Gabriel, environment minister.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
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September 24, 2008 11:54am
RRM

“I keep getting nasty suspicions that Helen has a “Plan B” and a “Plan C” and a “Plan D”…….. like, some monstrous frame-up of the Nats the day before the election; like, rigging election results; like, declaring election results null and void under technicalities, alleged breaches of electoral law by her opponents; like, declaring a state of emergency under some pretext; etc, etc……….

Any comments?”

Yeah: You’ve been screaming “Just like Zimbabwe” so often, you’re starting to believe it. Meanwhile, back in the real world…
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September 24, 2008 1:08pm
getstaffed

Meanwhile, back in the real world… RRM defends Labours corruption as outlined by Pita. Chop chop, we’re waiting …
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September 24, 2008 1:12pm
Gravyman62

Trotter is reverting to Winstone mode: it wasn’t me, I wasn’t there, I didn’t do it and if I was there I didn’t mean to do it. He seems incapable of accepting that WP has been a terrible mistake for Labour. Like everyone else who has trusted him they’ve been burnt. Mind you , they almost got away with it. Expect to see the SFO roundly trashed in Trotblog and the Standard very soon. The impossible defence continues, and with it more voters will desert Labour. Keep it up Chris.
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September 24, 2008 1:38pm
PhilBest

Yep, Winnie should be known as “the poison dwarf” of NZ Politics……..Bolger, Shipley…..Clark took a lot longer to bring down due to MSM indulgence…….
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September 24, 2008 1:49pm
llew

I keep getting nasty suspicions that Helen has a “Plan B” and a “Plan C” and a “Plan D”

I don’t often agree with you PhilBest, if ever, but the release of the Tranzrail share story makes me think there’s a little bag of goodies somewhere to be brought out at opportune moments – my guess is that the shares story was meant for later, but circumstances and the SFO meant revealing the hand early.

Remains to be seen if the rest is any more or less conclusive.
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September 24, 2008 2:00pm
riki

So what does the decision about Winnie means.

He has been officially told he has lost his crfedibility, so how does that affect his position in caucus?

Surely not normal as usual for him?
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September 24, 2008 2:32pm
expat

Voting in London.

Open invitation – NZ’rs in London, voting on approx Fri 24th, ale before/after.

Contact: kiwiexpat007@gmail.com or Mobile: 0753 448 3188
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September 25, 2008 1:15am
baxter

PAUL …………It makes no difference that KEY asked Parliamentary questions at the time his BROKER was dealing in TransRail Shares. I have yet to hear a Liabor Minister answer a question asked by a National member, they always get unrelated tripe courtesy of a crooked Speaker…Anyhow he didn’t double his money he sold out at a loss.
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September 25, 2008 3:11pm
philu

“..Anyhow he didn’t double his money he sold out at a loss..”

no baxter..wrong again..!..eh..?

this really is your day..eh..?

..the time-line/picture is..

..that yes..key lost heaps on his transrail share investments..

..(which does raise more than a raft of questions about his reputed/self-claimed ‘masters of the universe’/financial uber-investor skills..eh..?

..but hey..!..lets not be uncharitable/go there..!)

key bought and sold a bunch of shares during the crucial period..where he made a lot of money on a quick-flick..

..thus cutting what would have been even greater losses on his overall investment..

..and i am fascinated by keys’..’well..i lost money..so it dosen’t matter’ defence..eh..?

i must pass that defence on to the lawyers specialising in drug-cases..

..their clients can stand up in court and go.

.’yes..i had a ‘p’-lab..but i blew it cooking it up..and didn’t make any money..in fact..i lost money on the whole deal..can i go home now..?’

..(it’ll be known as the ‘key-defence’..)

..this is the sort of bullshit justification/spin key is trying to run..

..but..for all the above reasons..

it ain’t working..!

..eh..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 25, 2008 3:28pm

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