pat pat – yes thats right sonic, you know where i’ve been…in your special little world.

The fact is though, winnie is corrupt, hulun is corrupt, labybore have sold the workers down the river for the sake of the executives ego and the mps pecuniary gain.

bye bye hulun, mikhael and komrades!

I will go back to new zealand to celebrate when this occurs.

DPF was probaby annoyed that you kept avoiding answering a direct question by trying to make this tread about party donations and not give a direct answer to a question.

Oh and whille we are on the subject of openness, do you think the National Party should declare every gift it has received over $500 in the last parliament?

Didn’t you find it interesting how jumpy David got when I mentioned John Key’s secret meeting with UK Conservative party money man Ashcroft.

That bears looking into a little bit more methinks.

DPF: On the other hand you have avoided the substance every time now. So once again do you think Ministers should declare any gifts worth over $500 they get?

“It’s a several hours drive from SF I’d say its in the middle”

Yes thats right Expat, driving across the USa only takes 8 hours.

It was you who raised the “have you ever been to the USA” nonsense, just a pity that you did it while forgetting you never had.

Seriously, you guys have went way downhill since I last bothered to check out the comments on here. Have you all been on the stupid pills while I’ve been gone?

In the words of your dear corrupt leader

Didums

Love the random caps though, classy stuff.

ITS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE U.S, ITS NOT ON THE WAY TO ANYWHERE EXCEPT ITSELF.

WINSTON WAS ON A JOLLY! ON TAXPAYER MONEY.

Back to your copy of Socialists Weekly or what-ev-ah you people read.

Weird that you let your foul mouthed fellow right-wingers off with whatever they wish to say yet me pointing out that a major part of Hootsman’s piece is factually incorrect gets me a demerit?

Pointing out facts in a piece is now not on topic, my how one lives and learns.

Your fake good humour cracking under the strain already David?

But you mentioned it, then got all upset that I pointed in the factual flaws in Hootsman’s piece.

I’m all for openness as you know David, for example what was Key doing meeting John Ashcroft last week, I’ve not heard anyone in the National party explain that.

[DPF: First of all 10 demerits for going massively off topic. Secondly you ignored what I said. I agreed McCarten's maths was minor but I also addressed major issues in his column. While your comment on stopovers was minor with no substance elsewhere on more major points. In other words you are trolling]

On the other hand you have avoided the substance every time now. So once again do you think Ministers should declare any gifts worth over $500 they get?

Matt also says half the people were in the previous 1996 to 1999 Cabinet. Actually only seven out of the 15 were”

So to be clear. Matt Macarden calls 7 out of 15 “half” what an idiot! Hootsman makes up a flight plan and this is a “minor detail”

Must be great being you David, once set of rules for your side, a totally different set for anyone else.

As for the issue, I’ll wait for the facts rather than rely on Matthew’s gibbering (if thats ok with you)

Is that the new National party term for glaring factual error David?

Still lets all agree on financial openess David, lets see National open the books and list all of the people who donated through secret trusts in the last 5 years.

Ok with that?

[DPF: A third attempt to divert the topic. First of all whether the flight has stopovers is not what the issue is. It is about Ministers having to get permission for and declare overses trips and gifts.

The issue is whether Ministers who *personally* benefit have complied with the law and Cabinet Manual in relations to personal gifts and travel.

And note Sonic expressed no opinion on this, despite being asked to]

“getting even from Berlin to Las Vegas is considerably more arduous, taking at least 16 hours, and requiring at least two stops”

After 20 seconds on Expedia I found out you can do it in one stop.

No only would you not take Hootsman’s advice on politics, I’d avoid allowing him to be your travel agent either!