Media on Leaders’ Debate
October 14th, 2008 at 9:38 pm by David FarrarThe Herald rates the debate. First Audrey Young:
The debate brought out the best in John Key. He looked human, he talked about real people, real redundancies and up against the policy supremo, he more than held his own. She was awful to begin with, talking mainly in theories and statistics. Berating him over the Springbok tour was a mistake.
She was more convincing when talking up her leadership record. She had by far the best campaign launch on Sunday but he wiped the floor on the debate.
Then John Armstrong:
While there was little to separate the pair in a pretty even contest, John Key has to be declared the winner of tonight’s debate. …
In a tight battle, he even scored points at Clark’s expense. She was as rock solid as always, but predictable.
Key will have consolidated support for his party. National’s wobbly election campaign is back on track.
Fran O’Sullivan was the only dissenter:
Gripes aside: Clark scored best on the issue du jour – the international credit crisis. She has a post-election plan. Key doesn’t.
Key was initially ineffectual letting Clark walk over him (shades of Don Brash). He recovered and successfully challenged Clark’s rhetoric on climate change and crime.
Then we have NZPA Political Editor Peter Wilson:
John Key might not have been around politics for long but tonight he matched Helen Clark’s formidable abilities and vast experience as the National and Labour leaders went head to head in the campaign’s first TV debate.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
The choice is clear:
A party of the past, of 1981 and 3 more years of failure.
Or a party of the future, and of change.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
It doesn’t matter what the media thought
It is the public who vote.
Key was the clear winner, on style and substance
I noticed that he was first to shake her hand at the end and
acknowledge the audience
He even cracked a joke that had the audience laughing
Bet Helen hated that.
That comment of Helen’s to John about not shouting at
her because you are used to shouting at home, was
very very revealing.
My advice for next time, is more of the same John
but don’t nod in agreement when Helen is speaking.
This was John Key without the media bias, or filter
Vote:Forget PM he even looked quite presidential at times!
October 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
If some one could just squirt poison down Clark’s mouth to quiet her a little, things would be even better.
Vote:A nasty piece of work she is!!
October 14th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Probably the most telling declaration of the winner
Vote:http://www.thestandard.org.nz/lying-to-win/
October 14th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
nh (11) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Probably the most telling declaration of the winner
I guess you people are not only blind…. But fucking deaf too!!!
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
The handshake observation might seem trivial but actually very important. Key made the move ..he was comfortable and in control…Clark probably standing there figuring out how to win the next encounter…actions speak louder than words and whatever the media or talkback think key won…he thinks he did and so does clark!!!
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Newstalk ZB talkback is pretty clear that John was the winner and most can’t understand the relevance of the ’81 tour question.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
One of Hulun’s biggest weaknesses is she’s frightened to let herself be Hulun lest her considerable continual and palpable anger escapes. Key however is not an angry man and horrors, he appears actually even to enjoy himself.
The contrast is so stark she’ll go into overdrive to paint him as a selfish evil greedy bastard.
From tonight’s performance, who cares.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Probably the most telling declaration of the winner
blah blah thestandard.org.nz/lying-to-win/
Yeah I think it’s amusing the left’s flagship have gathered 24 responses using govt assistance whereas this blog alone along with this and the last thread have over 130. Lefty morons. Wake up. Hello. Anyone there?
Get the feeling no-one’s home? The dream’s over.
Let’s have some violins.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
The standard violin strings went snap and Aunty Hell went into the psych ward.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Bill Ralston in his blog at Stuff reckons it was a victory for John Key.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
My advice for next time, is more of the same John
Vote:but don’t nod in agreement when Helen is speaking.
DemocracyMum, i disagree. Key has a significant advantage when it comes to male voters, but is still trailing in the female vote. I thought that his approach (on a couple of occasions he said “Helen has a point”) would go down well with women voters, who do tend to be more communal in their approach to dealing with issues. I don’t know if CT coached him that way (one would have to assume so), but i’m thinking it’s going to pick up a number of floating women voters.
October 14th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
If Fran Kelly, who loathes labour and clark, thinks Key sucked, he must realy have sucked. Although frankly with important issues like the credit crisis its probably a good thing that politicians dont initiate the plans or make the decisions. Basically because politicians are mainly underqualified idiots.
Mostly its hard for people to make an impact during debates these days, they are so carefully prepared for and tightly controlled.
I havent watch the NZ one, but the US ones are snoozefests and when you consider how much more articulate and intelligent Obama is compared to McCain it demonstrates that life has been squeezed out of them.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Key owned her. At last I can actually see what it is about him that attracts a loyal following.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
FFS even Guyon Espiner declared Key the winner. virtually every media commentator.
Vote:(with the exception of course of matt Mckar kar kar k k kar rten)
October 14th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Clark was what you would expect, controlled, composed, knowledgable this sort of thing is bread and butter to her. Key did a lot better than I expected and landed a few decent blows. Soper’s question on the Springbok tour was just bizarre it obviously threw Key but does the public really care what he did in 1981? Effectively calling Peter Sharples a liar could come back to bite him and put him last in line to hongi (or something). Overall this debate could have gone very badly for Key the fact that it didn’t and that he held his own is something of a victory for National. Of course everyone here, myself included, will just decide a winner based on their voting preferences, I’ve got no idea how it will play with the swinging voters who will actually decide the election.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
dad, WTF are you drinking tonight, that is completely incomprehensible.
Did Key’s voice actually break a little when he said “and it’s really hard”. Shame his Hallmark Christmas Card memories of living in a state house are only distant memories to him. All the shit the commentators stating tonight that Helen was talking academic and Key was talking to the average person, what a load of self indulgent twaddle.
Patrick Starr, so personal abuse of disorders are fair game, or just personality disorders of people like you.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Boag looks like nothing more than a Key groopie. Key was not ‘relaxed’, his shrill at times was a higher pitch than the women standing next to him.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I just want to see a life time of 12 years for all in politics.
Vote:Fuck them all that wat wat to make a life out of it, it just doesn’t work.
Even pick up on the US and make the PM 2 terms.
They become very ugly.
October 14th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Key looked fresh and commanding, Clark came across as jaded and predictable. John was a clear winner. I also groaned with despair at the Springbok Tour question from Barry Soper, which was leapt upon victoriously by Helen in high moral tones . As John pointed out it was bloody 27 years ago. Anyone under the age of 45 can barely remember it in any real coherent way and it has had absolutely no real social or political impact on Generation XY. Instead all the old tired, liberal right-on Baby Boomers in Aro Valley and Grey Lynn, still harp on about ‘The Tour’ in the gravest of tones, yes it still is a world famous cataclysmic event we are still reeling from in their hazy minds and of course they all-saved -the -day-and-freed -Nelson- Mandela. Took about a Generation Gap, the same liberal Baby Boomers who are strangley silent when it comes to Robert Mugabe. Ask any recent immigrants to NZ about ‘The Tour’ and they won’t have a clue what you are babbling on about.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
“his shrill at times was a higher pitch than the women standing next to him.” Lol – sorry idiot from Linwood -that was no ‘woman’ standing next to him
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Just out of interest…
Muldoon had been in parliament for 24 years when he lost the 1984 election.
Clark, Cullen, and Goff have all been in parliament for 27 years.
Isn’t it time for them to move on and do something new? Like, if you’ve not succeeded in your first 27 years on the job, then another 3 years probably aren’t going to help.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
The Tour – what a joke. Could the baby boomers get over their own self-importance? As if their youthful anti-establishment angst in 1981 made a jot of difference to anything meaningful. Move over Clark and co, it’s time for another generation to take charge – Key is 11 years younger than Clark. She’s old and it’s showing.
Vote:(“Key was not ‘relaxed’, his shrill at times was a higher pitch than the women standing next to him.” – Paul, it would be difficult for most men to go deeper than Hulun’s baritone.)
October 14th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
davidp taking that logic, then there’s no hope for either of the two main political parties, and you probably have a point. Both Labour and National have had long terms in govt and neither of them have created the land of milk and honey that we have in our public psyche, you know, that New Zealand of yesteryear where there was no crime, no unemployment, bugger all pesky foreigners, no P, no boy racers blah blah blah.
So Patrick you are just all about personal abuse. Never mind this is the place for that. On the debate about shower heads, his voice was more or less on the same octave as him.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Key scores 67.73% in the viewers poll WooHoo!
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Key did very well. Especially given the biased nature of some of the questions like that Kiwisaver softball to open. And unlike Brash you never got the feeling there was going to be a meltdown when the topic moved off economic issues.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
You know what Paul from Linwood; you’re a typical leftie. your rules apply to everyone else except you.
“So Patrick you are just all about personal abuse”……………… then you say “Boag looks like nothing more than a Key groopie. Key was not ‘relaxed’, his shrill at times was a higher pitch than the women”
You are truly a hypocritical numpty fuckhole
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
The TVNZ poll has John Key winning by more than 2 to 1. That has to be a trouncing in anyones language. Game on again everyone!
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
No TVNZ scores $47k I can hear the WooHoo in the boardroom.
JameP how can valid questions about policy that is going to affect actual people be biased? Biased or not, doesn’t forgive the lies he told tonight WooHoo.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
“No TVNZ scores $47k I can hear the WooHoo in the boardroom”
Thats leftie language for: We didnt win so it doesn’t count – Woo Fucken Hoo (or Diddums)
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
And you are an abusive twat, shall we call it a night. Did it make you feel better, chest a little puffed up now, that rush of adrenalin.
I prefer pinko commie wanker myself, fits more with the whole look. Boag did look like a groupie, but then as ex National Party President she is very well a groupie for the man. McCarten’s speech impediment on the other hand was not basis of ridicule.
The shrill I was referring to was already used thought out this post tonight. It’s like the McCain lipstick on a pig remark. Sorry sunshine doesn’t wash with me. It was an observation and that was all.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
In the mean time… Key 1…. the chick with the fucked up teeth and no makeup but lies about it (cause on every 3 years)… no children and says she cares…… and is ugly… opps, sorry mentioned that…. 0 that is by the way…. ZERO.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
call it whatever you like you pinko commie wanker
“sunshine doesn’t wash with me” so what pressure shower head might you need for your wash with your friend ?
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Key has obviously studied Clark’s previous debate performances & knew Helen’s signature move was to rabbit on… and on… with the moderators powerless to stop her.
So Key played her at her own game …….
Frankly he was bloody impressive. Not only did he rattle her, but stuck it to her on a number of occasions.
AT LAST…..! Thank you John Key.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
That is probably the most accurate political poll so far, and remember nobody is saying helen clark sucked tonight.
Vote:Nearly 68% is an absolute trouncing in anybodys language.
October 14th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
More insightful comment from Starr. For all we know Key put an add in student job search and gave everyone a $100 vodafone txt credit and got them all to vote. They count for nothing except a silly marketing tool and now seemingly a source of revenue.
I was also under the impression that the only poll that counts is the one you actually put a mark on in a box on a certain day.
I may be all of the above that P Starr thinks, but as the saying goes Key is still a liar. I can live with my sins, can public live with his lies.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Innocent bystander, forget the Maori party, they will not be going with Key.
Vote:Not when a lot of Maori believe that the Nats are using blackmail on the
Maori seats.
If Key wants to drop them he should have the balls to state they will go this
term.
But, it will be too bad if the Nats find themselves a seat or two short to govern.
But I was amused when a Nat said the Maori were obliged to talk to the Nats
first.
October 14th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
“For all we know Key put an add in student job search and gave everyone a $100 vodafone txt credit and got them all to vote.”
Thats still less than the bribe Clark just gave the students
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Shunda, I don’t want to be rude or anything but are you kidding. Txt and online polls are about as useful as telling the bank manager “no no it’s all ok I’m going to win Lotto this week – honest”.
“with the moderators powerless to stop her. So Key played her at her own game…”
He rabbeted on and on and on and at times all you could hear was the squeaks from Key over everyone in the studio, I particularly liked the one when the voice went high and the Gdubbya environment comment came out. Seems he shrills best when he’s lying.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Funny, She gave students in 4 years time incentive to go to tertiary institutions. That would make those so called being bribed not eligible to vote yet, 14. Not a brilliant tactic going for the 14 year old vote. But considering both Labour and National are going to hold people to school or some other institution until they are 18, then some form of economic help as a result is a good thing.
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
“all you could hear was the squeaks from Key”
all about personal abuse is it Paul?
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
“Key is still a liar”
And he would still be a more honest choice than any labour MP
Vote:The left and the truth parted company a long time ago Paul, give it up bro, its over, finished, el completo.
October 14th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
“Not a brilliant tactic going for the 14 year old vote”
I’m not the one defending her intelligence
Vote:October 14th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
For all we know Paul is really Peter Davis under orders to put out a positive spin online. But thanks to Occam’s razor I conclude he isn’t and that Key is getting good feedback because he won the debate.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Seriously was that it. Holly crap if that was the knock out blow we were expecting from Key, holly crap 3 more years of vanilla govt (because despite what you guys think I don’t vote labour). If he had a modicum of personality ‘on his watch’ and his ‘fresh start’ actually rang true, with my income it would make sense to vote for the bugger.
Sorry it was altogether boring from the both of them. Very good to see the audience had to shut up, only wish the journalist did too.
Patrick Starr the fundamental difference between me and you sunshine is that you define abuse and my interpretation of Keys shrills and squeaks, while “hypocritical numpty fuckhole” is somewhat acceptable. Night all and happy blue dreams
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:04 am
What I don’t get is where does Guyon Espinar get off talking about National disastrous start to the election campaign?
Why is Guyon trying to create the perception that National is starting off on the wrong foot? Perception is all it is because there have been no major gaffs or blunders.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:07 am
“For all we know Paul is really Peter Davis ”
So the concern from linwood may really be about the beaten husband syndrome?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Any question on policy can be biased if it contains assumptions that closely mirror the talking points of one party. The opening question was not designed to illuminate the candidates positions on the economy generally or even kiwisaver specifically. It was designed to put Key on the defensive about his decision to change the employer contribution. A little gift to Helen. You might have felt similarly if that question that characterized the student allowance proposal as a bribe had been the opener. But it wasn’t and it didn’t even lead the education segment.
So I think Key did well to overcome a difficult start.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Paul, before you go to bed, have a biscut and a cup of tea and put a teaspoon of sugar in it, gotta get that blood sugar up man, you sound a little grumpy.
Vote:Key is not that bad for a politician Paul, and I think people are starting to like the guy, people are sick of bossy old Clark telling us whats good for us.
Who are you voting for anyway?
October 15th, 2008 at 12:10 am
My review of the aftermatch:
Labour supporters were:
Soper: asked about an issue that is so old most voting kiwis either don’t care or don’t know (Springbok tour)
McCarten: stuttered his way through a defense of the indefensible
Guy who hosted the debate: Worse than the speaker of the house -and THAT is saying a lot
National supporters were:
Arseneau: she may want to seem unbiased but she isn’t – but she was fair and balanced
Ex-National lady who sat beside Mr McMcCarten: was fair
Why is it that the right are always fair and the left are always nasty and bitter and can’t deal with facts? The national lady put McMcCarten in his place when he defended Helen’s comment about the age of the national front bench by pointing out that the Labour front bench is FAR older – he just stammered out something about an old National back bencher – way to go McMcCarten.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:14 am
I’d like to introduce a new term into the kiwi lexicon. My proposal is to employ the word ‘sopered’ to describe the use of a totally pointless observation or question….
Vote:Lee – http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/2008/10/sopered.html
October 15th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Shunda not grumpy, not in the least, I just can’t stand liars. If Helen came out tonight with half the whoopies Key did, I’d be pissed at her too.
I vote Green, but rather reluctantly as the Alliance is no longer in the frame. I was and still am a huge fan of Lila Harre. But as I said, with my income it makes sense for me to vote blue. But that trade off is always at the expense of decent social democratic values which I hold true. Remember it was the last National govt who kicked the unemployed in the bollocks so bloody hard it was depressing to watch. Then there’s the environment. Helen has done OK, not good but also not bad. But then National is talking about the RMA as if it is going to be the cure all for the environment and the economy. Key was disingenuous tonight with his comments about the showers. He’s going to scrap the plan to make houses in NZ warmer. That is a fundamental problem we have in NZ, and they are going to scrap it. Warm houses = healthy families = productive workers & students = less unemployment and more productivity. But also warm house = less need for electricity = less need for radical change in RMA to get nasty coal fired plants on deck (as per policy of National) = more certainty in spot prices on the market = happy Comalco.
It’s the little things in life which make a huge difference. Key want’s ideologically to give you money in your pocket to make your choices – fine. But if those people don’t make those choices that are going to help, what is the bloody point except ideology.
Another is the R&D tax credit. This has hit me and other business hard. NZ has hideously low R&D and if 30-50 years of ‘choice’ for NZ business to invest in R&D doesn’t work, what’s wrong with govt spending on this issue. BTW one of the worlds biggest investors in R&D is the US, that’s right the free market radicals (oh no wait they’re nationalising banks and financial institutions as we speak). Why the hell is National scrapping the R&D fund, doesn’t make sense.
Now I do have to do to bed, my boys are up at 6 and I’ve got clients to keep happy tomorrow.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:26 am
OMFG WraithX “the right are always fair” well that’s an oxymoron right off the bat. Boag was less than fair, pathetic in fact, Arseneau I have never seen so generous to a National.
Those blue glasses need to be taken off at night, they create distortion fields. Did you seriously see it that way? Speechless.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Paul, you’re crying! Haaaa, sook!
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Paul,
the problem with your take on the debate is that nobody else in the country seems to agree with you. People right across the political spectrum, including Matt Mcarten, thought he sounded strong and down to earth. Now you are of course entitled to view, but you can hardly be surprised that your not being taken seriously. I watched the debate, and I know a fair bit about both good debating and public speaking, and I do not think he sounded shrill at all. Remember that he had no choice but to play hardball with Helen, given that she came out playing hardball and talking over the top of him to begin with.
As to the so-called lies, anyone who uses the term “social democracy” is a liar in my books, because what you really mean is socialism, you just don’t have the guts to come right out and say it.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Anyone voting Green can’t be taken seriously.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 2:53 am
John Key won the debate but what’s up with plebs asking the questions via You Tube? Lame.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Hi Paul,
Fair comments.
Q/ What R&D items are you penalised on under the new regime? How much were you offsetting?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 5:55 am
I disagree however, but fair play.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Well that’s Labour stuffed then:
Labour silent on cost of crisis plan
Hels needs to smile.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 6:24 am
So, no plan, no costs.
Trust us, we’re Labour. (remember the lightbulbs, the showers, the waterfront stadium, Winston Peters)
Ha fucking ha!
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Come on John, get in there boy!
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Looks like 2008 is one election too far for Hels.
Too bad, so sad, never mind.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Fran partly makes up for her poor judgement on the debate here:
Fran O’Sullivan: Clark arrogant to keep Key in dark
Helen Clark arrogant? No kidding!!
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:09 am
O’Sullivan is good. She is right, Clark is formidable and fucking arrogant.
People right off Clark cause of her appearance. Not smart.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:23 am
How would Saturday Night Live describe Clark? As a “Boner Shrinker”.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:25 am
Maybe if Hels gets more shrill for the next debate she can turn Labour’s fortunes around.
Is it possible for Hels to get more shrill than she already was on the debate last night?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:33 am
The standard’s attack on John Key’s “rudeness” is pathetic.
From the standard link above:
“Key didn’t want to repeat Brash’s mistake of appearing to treat Clark softly because she is female. Instead, he let out the nasty side in him, yelling, talking over the top. He seemed disrespectful; “I can talk over Helen for the whole debate if you let me Mark – it’s your call”, awful. That won’t play well with women (seems Tories can’t just treat women as they do men).”
An aggressive style is an entirely necessesary response against Helen. In last election’s debate against Brash, Helen talked over the top of him, utterly ignored Sainsbury’s direction as to who had the right to speak and made her typical (and rather masculine) dissaproving grunts (and sneers) whenever Brash was elaborating on a point. In those circumstances, especially when suffering a limp-wrist adjudacator like Sainsbury, it is up to the debater to defend themselves.
The line “I can talk over Helen for the whole debate…” appears to be quoted out of context, as it was in response to Helen interjecting and thus Helen being rude. Also the accusation of sexism is utterly unfounded. I suspect Key would have behaved exactly the same way when facing a male opponent who behaved like Helen (although most wouldn’t). It is ironic that they accuse Brash of being sexist because he was too soft on Helen, and then accuse Key of it for doing the exact opposite. A little consistency would be nice. Finally I think it is singularly appropriate that the title of the standard’s review is “lying to win”.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:37 am
LOL – the substandard quoting ethical and moral standards! Fuck me.
BYE BYE LABOUR!
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:49 am
Why is it the Hels and Hillary both hurt my ears so much when I hear them debate? At least it’s good to know that both will have been retired by years end.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:50 am
So just listening to Radio LeftWing’s coverage. The recurring theme repeated in every headline update is “John Key has no trouble talking over Clark in the Leader’s debate.” So instead of acknowledging the fact he won by a country mile, they subtly try to paint him as a bully.
They’re pathetic. Poor widdle Hulun, that nasty My Key…
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Radio Leftwing should be called Diddums Radio. What a circus this insane country is. Anyone for the truth ?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 7:58 am
I’m feeling GOOD…
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I do believe that Helen has developed a bad case of Jenny Shipley Syndrome!
Unfortunately that’s the last thing from someone from the LEFT wants to catch
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 8:13 am
My opinion on the debate is here:
Vote:No knockdown’s but Key jabbed very well
October 15th, 2008 at 8:15 am
*sigh* I wonder if the Sub-Standard boys (how many women do they actually have on the roster?) get what a pack of patronising and sexist dorks they’re being with this kind of faux chivalry? They’d have a little more credibility if Clark was being a little more “respectful” herself; and considering my partner snarled “fuck up you cunts” and left the room after ten minutes, I think it’s safe to assume he was less than impressed with either Clark or Key chipping in, and trying to shout each other down.
And if Mark Sainsbury wasn’t bothering to actually moderate the debate, you’ve got to wonder (yet again) what the hell is he getting paid for. Perhaps one of the ground rules was that each participant got to hold one of Sainsbury’s testicles hostage for 90 minutes.
Mildly diverting infotainment, but zero out of ten for substantive content.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 8:26 am
So Clark bitches about Brash being too soft for not taking her on and now shes bitching about Key taking her on and not being soft like Brash?
Waaaa much?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Probably none of us are politically neutral on the site !!
Vote:It’s the image that counts on TV. How people look is more important than substance.
I thought John Key handled himself well, especially in his body language and facial expressions. This is so “key” in TV. A bit like Nixon/Kennedy in 1960, where Nixon won the radio debate but Kennedy creamed TV.
Helen started with the feigned smile, then her expressions became more thunderous as the debate went on. By the end of the debate she had returned to type, that mongrel hounddog expression when she thinks somebody has stolen her toys.
TV is hard on those who can’t bond with the community on that medium. The big result of last nights debate is that the “ordinary” persom on the street saw John Key as somebody they could relate to. HC – an automaton from Dr Who, with the warmth of the planet Neptune.
As well, Helen is up to her nasty side swipes about irrelevant matters. She’s no friend of the people
October 15th, 2008 at 8:50 am
I can’t believe how much the media protects Labour. With all the so called experts saying it was a match and even the Harold has John Key only 2 points ahead of Clark but last night when people contacted TV1 without the interference of the news, they gave a landslide victory to John Keys-2 to 1. The papers and news want Labour to win, it is that simple and they are going to rip John Key another you know what to get there. I stopped reading the paper. I even hope that the paper’s loose subscriptions as a result of this debate because the truth isn’t talked about too often.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I saw some of the debate. I must admit that Helen did not look good when she evaded the question of whether she is rich. Of course she is rich but she just couldn’t admit to that fact. Maybe she felt she would have disappointed Labour voters if she had admitted it.
But when both leaders began talking non-stop and over one another about showers (!), both looked like screaming kids. Someone please tell the leaders that such behaviour is a real turn off. John key just needs to keep his head – he doesn’t need to resort to a slanging match.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I give TVNZ 10/10 for the length of debate/question method but 1/10 for using a biased/useless panel & moderator. Soper was the prize pratt and Espiner a half exploded damp squib, the Maori guy was clear even if his questions were somewhat left leaning. The review at 10.30 was much better and Therese Arsenau was impressive, possibly right leaning but clearly going the extra mile to be as fair & balanced as she could, even Matt McCarten acknowledged John Keys scores& Michelle Boag spoke well. I hope the following leader debates use a selection of older voters questions to balance the You Tube youth dominated ones last night.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Freethinker………I agree it is mind boggling that the most Senior Political Commentator (Soper) in the country, given the chance to ask only two questions at a time when the country is in financial crisis, should ask a pointless one sided question as to what Key thought of the Springbok tour when he was 19 years old.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I see the vile shrew has been bitching about Key on the radio today.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4728288a28435.html
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Clark: Key ‘out of control’ in debate
Helen Clark laid into National leader John Key’s performance in last night’s head to head debate today saying it was lucky he didn’t cry and accusing him of having a tantrum.”
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Hels really is a sore loser.
8 November is going to be fun.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Why is Helen Clark so bitter?
I think it’s because of her impending election defeat on 8 November.
Vote: