Recognise the vandals
Stephen Franks has blogged some photos of vandals destroying or defacing his signs. Go have a look in case you recognise them.
The vandalism is costing around $1,000 a week.
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Tags: Stephen Franks
October 24th, 2008 at 9:02 am
While I don’t condone this action (all election posters bar the odd moustache are off limits), perhaps they just need to take a cue from Rodney Hide and wait for 6 months so they are immune from prosecution.
“The Electoral Commission said the party should have declared the space under rules requiring disclosure of donations in kind worth more than $10,000 a year.
The ruling against ACT says it should have declared the office space, which was donated for several years till 2005. It noted the non-declaration was outside the six-month limit for prosecution, but ordered ACT to make amended returns for the years it used the space.”
See if it’s acceptable from the very top, how are they to distinguish what’s right and wrong – just wait 6 months.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:10 am
That’s right Paul, because two wrongs make a right.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Paul:
WTF are you going on about? Even by the usual low standard around here for fatuous moral equivalences, that was particularly lame.
Meanwhile, gentle readers, riddle me this: This is my second electoral cycle on the North Shore. And I’m still to see a vandalised hoarding (of any party) — are we JAFAs more civilized across the board, or is there something in the water that turns Wellington Central political junkies into arseholes and cowards who need to get a nightlife?
October 24th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Oh – and good on Stephen for the photographs. Wouldn’t it be funny (and not at all surprising) if they were members of young labour – or the children of people in high positions in some of the unions like the EPMU?
October 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Craig: In Hutt South (Mallard’s electorate) I am seeing National Party hoardings being damaged in almost every spot they exist in. One is so badly defaced (they turned the photo of John Key in to a pig face) that it must have taken hours. I can’t understand how no one is seeing them do it.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
“Franks says- “We plan to catch these political thugs who don’t like free speech or opinions different from their own.”
So damn right. If there is one thing the left are obsessed with, its silencing those with “unapproved ideas”. From manipulating the outcome of online polls to the destruction of election signs, to their persecution of the Brethren, to regulations like the disgusting Electoral Finance Act, these scum show so plainly that the root of their political ambition is total control. The left are power obsessed totalitarian thugs, and we must free ourselves from their cultural and political ascendancy.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
is there something in the water that turns Wellington Central political junkies into arseholes and cowards who need to get a nightlife
It’s probably because most of them have been kicked out of the inner city doss houses by the encroaching government departments.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I think Stephen Franks should take the photos to Wellington College for a start – I bet the headmaster knows them.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Wellington, lived there, done that, looked at it again, fuck no.
Students and Gummint dept bludgers.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:20 am
“Oh – and good on Stephen for the photographs. Wouldn’t it be funny (and not at all surprising) if they were members of young labour – or the children of people in high positions in some of the unions like the EPMU?”
Whatever, they’ll have been well indoctrinated, to the point where any view that isn’t ‘progressive’ is not to be tolerated. Modern day Hitler Jugen.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:27 am
A 5.56 round costs 5c.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Craig said:
I live in Auckland Central Craig, and I can tell you that there is considerable vandalism of hoardings in this electorate. There’s a Nikki Kaye hoarding across the road from my home in Grey Lynn which gets attacked two or three times a week. The Labour Party and Green hoardings are much less likely to get attacked, but they generally all take a bit of a beating on Saturday nights depending on the weather.
The weather-dependent hoarding destruction on Saturday nights appears to be young kids with nothing better to do. The Kaye-only attacks are more frequent, aren’t weather-dependent, and appear to be politically motivated.
As for why you might not have noticed hoarding damage, this might explain it. During the week in Auckland Central almost the only signs that get attacked are Nikki Kaye ones. There are a couple of National Party guys who come past at 7am, without fail, the morning after the destruction to resurrect the destroyed hoardings. They seem to be very organised. Unless you’re a morning person and living right near a hoarding site, as I am, you probably wouldn’t notice that they’d been knocked over in the first place.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Cwaig doesn’t see a lot of what the left are up to.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I live in the rotten borough of Mt Albert.
The hoardings of all parties get attacked by morons on a regular basis, although it does seem that the national party signs suffer more than the rest.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:52 am
I passed a group of hoardings in Evans Bay last weekend. ACT and National were vandalised. Labour, the Anderton party, Greens, and one other weren’t.
I’m guessing that once Labour First and the Greens get the taxpayer to pay for their own campaigns, and then restrict the ability of others to finance anti-axis campaigns, then the next step is driving up the cost of those anti-axis campaigns.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Well that’s one mystery solved…always wondered where Paul & Philu got to a week or so back
Forget about legalising dope…we need to legalise TASERS so that we can burn these pinko commie losers arses!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 10:06 am
I know a lot of Labourites from my dealings with the student unions and they all gleefully told me of their night time hoarding destruction plans. Although in Welly Central you have anarchists and workers party retards there who add to the mix.
This isn’t random, I am willing to wager a Labour connection in all this.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Wow, that’s amazing…that Franks can afford infra-red cameras. Will that be classed as an election expense?
I’m always bemused by politicians and aspiring politicians who actually think (I assume they think) that their hoardings make a difference. Yes, I can just see the average punter driving past a “Vote Labour” hoarding saying to herself “That’s it, I’m going to vote Labour” and then a few seconds later saying “No, I’m voting National”. It really is laughable. Maybe instead of spending money on hoardings and cameras, Franks should be spending his money on publicising what he and his party intend to do about, say, miscarriages of justice were he and they to be elected. Or how he believes the criminal justice system should be reformed to reduce the incidence of miscarriages. That would be productive and something that the wider public would I’m sure like to hear rather than see a few spotty faced youths being caught on candid camera.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:12 am
The first step is to determine if the vandals are Labour party members (or even just Labour First supporters). If they are then just ‘move on’ because it will not be in the public interest to prosecute them.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Travelled through MOTAT interchange in Auckland the other day. The faces were cut out of National, Act and United billboards, and Libertarians billboards were defaced. Labour, Greens, Progressives and RAM – All fine.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Craig, perhaps its because young folks in Auckland, and especially on the Shore, tend to drive a lot more than those in Wellington, and thus there is less foot traffic around hoardings. I would like to believe that Auckland teens are better behaved than Wellingtonians, but having grown up on the Shore through the riotous nineties, I am sceptical.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:20 am
They may belong to the property the sign is outside – more than a few houses & embassies near me (wgtn central) have CCTV & at least one I know has a Nat hoarding (hasn’t been vandalised though, so it’s not this one).
October 24th, 2008 at 10:23 am
ross: Franks is wealthy and lives in one of Wellington’s top (and most expensive) streets – I suspect he already had cameras outside his home well before he went in to politics. It is not uncommon to see them on private residences.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I don’t think Franks is particularly reticent about these issues, read the rest of his site.
I hold the spotty faced hoarding vandals in much the same regard as I do taggers, so yeah, if they can catch ‘em…
October 24th, 2008 at 10:26 am
llew – the sign is outside his home – I saw it on the weekend when I drove past. But as I said in my previous post, he probably had the cameras before he went in to politics. It is the same house he lived in when I first met him when he was in ACT.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Well people, maybe we need to start taking some ACTION of our own! Anyone got a map available pointing out where all the LABOUR/GREENS/NZFIRST/PROGRESSIVES billboards can be found???
Fight fire with fire…
October 24th, 2008 at 10:27 am
“It is not uncommon to see them on private residences.”
Yeah well, they would perhaps deter leftist zealots from burying a thousand knives in his front lawn and other such Bolshevik style attacks that are commonly carried out upon anyone speaking out against the left.
Like this for example-
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_594853.html
October 24th, 2008 at 10:32 am
“I hold the spotty faced hoarding vandals in much the same regard as I do taggers”
Once again, you attempt to deflect from the actions of your anti free speech political allies and are even ready to molify the odious and cowardly crime of tagging to do that.
Tagging is bad enough, but this, because of its anti-free speech dimension, is much worse. Go away with your soft tyranny- you’re sprung, and you can’t get away with bullshitting your way out of it anymore..
October 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am
WTF are you drooling on about now, Baiter? mausism might just have a point — you’d need balls of steel to be doing your magic with a stanley knife on a well-lit busy road. It just doesn’t seem to happen on the Shore (or at least the parts of it I get around), and that’s not a bad thing. Perhaps we even have a better class of hoons who are too busy crashing riotous parties to vandalise hoardings.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:37 am
“Bolshevik style attacks”
Oh reddy, you’re so cute when you use similes that you’re unclear on.
“Modern day Hitler Jugen”
There’s a metaphor!
I’m unsure how youths pulling down hoardings are the same as hitler youth but I’m interested to hear your POV to explain this.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I saw a Labour Burns billboard on fire, so I pissed on it and saved the taxpayer the expense of a fire truck.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:48 am
First group of vandal photos, top right….that looks like Trevor Mallard to me!
October 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Um… what? Molify what? Bulshit my way out of what? And anymore? Earth to planet Wussell? Hello?
Actually, you’re right on one thing, it is worse than tagging.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Ilew wrote: “I don’t think Franks is particularly reticent about these issues, read the rest of his site”.
I have read the rest of his site. He has written one article about the abolition of the Privy Council, which he decries. There is absolutely nothing about what he or National intends to do about miscarriages of justice. Surely, he has an opinion on the issue.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Dunno about miscarriages of justice, but here’s a page showing links to other law reform posts of his.
http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/?cat=8
October 24th, 2008 at 11:38 am
This does really seem to be an issue this election. From what i have seen it is a lot worse then other elections.
I am up to my 6th Labour billboard already. 3 have been stolen and 2 been drawn on.
It is really expensive. I wish who ever it is would stop.
I also saw this http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0810/S00122.htm people setting fire to signs. It is sad. They need to be punished. But it does seem to be happening from both sides.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
“If there is one thing the left are obsessed with, its silencing those with “unapproved ideas”
Quite unlike yourself, eh Ratty?
October 24th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
The weird looking little runt in the lower picture looks like James Sleep to me, but I would really like to comment on your ‘Dispatch from Helengrad”……….That one tasty little Asian Dish on the popup ad. Look how small her hands are.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
‘Wow, that’s amazing…that Franks can afford infra-red cameras. Will that be classed as an election expense?’
Weell, although it certainly is the case that under the present lot, many of us are struggling to afford fucking basic foodstuffs and pay our lekky bills, , but don’t let that envy of anyone who might be able to afford anything more expensive than a KFC get in the way of your sanctimonious little attitude with its agenda to turn us all into a third-world nation.
dad – “I saw a Labour Burns billboard on fire, so I pissed on it and saved the taxpayer the expense of a fire truck” you did wait till it was properly on fire before you pissed on it – didn’t you?.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
It is obvious, National and Act are vandalising their own billboards so they can claim Labour are running a “dirty tricks” campaign.
Edit: To add
October 24th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Redbaiter: “Tagging is bad enough, but this, because of its anti-free speech dimension, is much worse. ”
Really?
It’s ridiculous to liken an election billboard to an innocuous piece of property like a letterbox. It [an election billboard] is a brazen public effort to affect the direction of the whole nation for the next 3 years.
Freedom of speech is the freedom to confront authority figures and their public statements if you don’t like them. NOT the freedom of The Power Elite to broadcast their propaganda from high towers.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Stephen Franks says THIS on his site:
“….The boys below were in a separate group disturbed defacing one of our hoardings last weekend, followed and photographed. Do you know who they are?
If you know them, please warn their parents…..”
HA! I agree with Redbaiter and the others above who say that these kids will be brainwashed little Red Diaper babies. Their parents will be proud of them.
And by the way, this sort of thing is endemic in soft-socialist utopia Sweden, (and other nations in the E.U.S.S.R.), to the extent that the cops busily look the other way while right-wing politicians and their supporters get beaten up on a regular basis.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Um… “Tick Franks, Tick National” (Or substitute Robertson/Labour, Uncle Tom Cobley/Et al) is hardly propaganda.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I’ve managed to stop the so called random vandals in my area by having the police have the names, car regos and descriptions of the morons after a great Magnum PI style stake out one evening – mmm coffee and donuts…oh and camo gear…it was almost fun… Though this was after our campaign (National in Chch) had lost 25 hoardings stolen in a few weeks – apparently we have the record for the Sth Is…great… Charges are pending in two cases. One of which involved a nutter with a hunting knife who when approached then tried to attack a police officer. Both cases claimed they did as they were against capitalist pigs.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
“Vote for me” is TOTALLY propaganda!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
They stopped replacing the signs with Helens face on them below Massey. They never lasted more than 48 hours before being smashed.
Personally I think the prime requirement for billboard vandels is a really tiny penis and no firing braincells.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Hence why it’s ok to shoot them, eh Murray?
{Murray (1744) Says: A 5.56 round costs 5c.}
October 24th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Horisthebear:
“…….Both cases claimed they did as they were against capitalist pigs……”
We are in the process of reaping a frightful harvest from the whole cultural Marxism propaganda and grievance manufacturing industry. Grievance-based Maori terrorism, propaganda-based radical greenie terrorism, grievance-based shooting rampages, propaganda-based class warfare. The old Maori battalion members, “For God, King, and Country, AU – E! Ake, ake, kia kaha e!”; would be turning in their graves, as would all of the honest, honourable great grandparents of our spoilt, dumbed-down, brainwashed, radicalised youth.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
?? How so? It’s just a plea for your vote. By your reckoning, some beggar sitting with a sign saying “Your small change please?” is a propagandist?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/propaganda
October 24th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
“spoilt, dumbed-down, brainwashed, radicalised youth.”
We’re apparently seeing the rise of the most politically apathetic, selfish, introverted generation of young’uns in history, but you say they’re ‘radical’? Where are these people?
October 24th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Master Baiter; http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_594853.html
Even McCains own supporters don’t believe this.
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/23/why-that-mccain-volunteers-mutilation-story-smells-awfully-weird/
October 24th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
What sanctimonious bollocks.
There appears to be orchestrated destruction of Nat/Act billboards.
That you won’t condemn this is itself confirmation of your gutter politics and filthy desperation to flout the law in order remain in power.
You and your sort disgust me.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
# stephen (1970) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 24th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
“spoilt, dumbed-down, brainwashed, radicalised youth.”
“We’re apparently seeing the rise of the most politically apathetic, selfish, introverted generation of young’uns in history, but you say they’re ‘radical’? Where are these people?”
Stephen, if you went to any public demonstration orchestrated by Green or Socialist activists, you would hear rhetoric about “climate change criminals” and “big business criminals” and “christian fundamentalist bigots” and the whole gamut of Marxist class warfare rhetoric. I realise that most people will think I am being unnecessarily hysterical, but what we need to realise is that a society’s worst elements will surface in a time of severe stress and “liferaft ethics”. If we have to go through a period of economic trauma like the Germans went through in the 1930′s, we will find out then just what a mistake it has been to be using taxpayers money to pump little wannabe “social changers” full of murderous Herbert Marcuse and Noam Chomsky theorem.
Plus, Al Gore has already been calling for civil disobedience and calling for young people who care about the planet to “take the law into their own hands” and destroy fossil-fuel-burning power stations. This man is my no.1 pick for “Antichrist”.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
The probable reason for the epidemic of damage to Stephen Franks posters in Wellington Central is probably due to the recent poll in WC showing a massive 20% swing to National which would mean that Franks would win if this polling lead is maintained. Remember that Stephen Franks is very well known in the constituency and highly respected as one of the brightest minds ever to be in Parliament whilst Grant Robertson is just a Labour party hack who has only ever worked in Labour Party jobs since leaving Uni. I presume the Ipredict punters will take a bath on GR. A low pressure cold bath.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I saw Stephen Franks driving along Cambridge Terrace last weekend and if anyone should be charged with vandalism it is Mr Franks himself. A perfectly decent, elderly VW beetle has been lowered, had mag wheels added, painted gold and then turned into a mobile election billboard. No class. Apart from that, you’d have to wonder what message he sends by driving one the ‘peoples’ cars’ anyway.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Philbest, that stuff is nothing remotely new.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Joe – I know the car you mean. Had the pleasure of following Franks in his lowered VW (with customised gold paint-job and big chrome mag wheels) up Salamanca Rd at about 30km/h a while ago.
It certainly doesn’t perform any better than a normal VW Standard Saloon – the modifications are all show and no go. An apt metaphor for the party perhaps?
October 24th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Yes the little brat on the top left of Stephen Franks photos is the same as the one who poses at the bottom.
What you going to do about it ?.
It is hard to believe, but true, that stupid NAT didn’t realise it was in a war.
NAT dumbo strategy went redneck in the cheeks and dismissed his only guaranteed way to Government.
NAT boss rules out Winston and loses the election that it could not lose.
NZ slides away further in the next few years.
Close your NAT column down Farrar.
Go now Farrar, but first read Cactus Kates column on how to go,
you are banned Farrar
Socialism rules because of you NAT are stupid stupid stupid.
losers NAT
pq
October 24th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
pq, are you on Liarbour Acid?
October 24th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
In the nineties dad4justice I helped gained custody of children for eight men.
beat that. front up. NAT will lose Government because
Winston Peters 5%
Green 8%
Maori 5%
Jim Anderton
Peter Done.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Oh my Lord, pq is on the ball. Well I think National will win 55% of the vote.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Just to counter the “on the ball” comment, here is an excerpt from dad4justice’s website:
When we take power, all feminists will be tried and those found guilty of crimes against Nature, or crimes against humanity, or crimes against the State, which is the people, will be given a long gaol sentence or the worst of them will be given the death penalty. And the death penalty will be public hanging or public beheading. It is wonderful to imagine those criminal feminists crying seeking the protection of men, the same men they’ve complained about for years,as they are led to their deaths on the gallows. Imagine them swinging, dancing on air when the floor drops from underneath them.
Suffice to say, dad4justice is one of the most insane people I know, whether in person or by reputation!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I am glad you like it ratbiter.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Up your strychnine levels you stupid rodent.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Hey Ratbiter, when dad4justice is killing up to 18 000 feminists a year, we will look at changing the law, unless of course d4j can prove that feminists are only cells and don’t have any value as humans.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
“under the present lot, many of us are struggling to afford fucking basic foodstuffs and pay our lekky bills”
Yup. I had a work contract in Dunedin and should be there right now but it fell through at the last minute. Now I have two weeks unbooked. Crap.
I could in theory hold the individual involved legally accountable but he just lost his job and may lose his house as well. Poor sod.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Is peterquixote on some kind of medication we should be aware of?
October 24th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
yes lee vegetables
October 24th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I suspect I’ll be accused of threadjacking DPF, but no post from you for 10 hours. So thought I should pick a thread to say this on, and this seemed the most appropriate one, since it was about “vandals”.
Anyway, I would like some of the Kiwibloggers (or JK himself) to justify John Key’s blatantly homophobic comments. Having given Lockwood a ticking off, and a possible demotion, over his racist comments about Pacific Islanders and Asians, I would not have thought he would be pandering to homophobia by diverting funding to blatantly anti-gay organisations like Bob McCroskie’s Family Fist and Ian Grant’s Parents Inc.
And, um, is the “no Roger Douglas in Cabinet” Key pronouncement a National Party non-negotiable bottom line?
I suspect a lot of wavering voters will be scared off if it is not – hopefully scared off to the safety of the Greens.
[DPF: John Key has made no such homophobic comments and it is disgraceful that you smear him by suggesting he has. To the contrary John Key has said he supports gay adoption]
October 24th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Then clearly you need some red meat.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
TOAD!!!
How is your parties anti-Christian hatefest going?
“I suspect I’ll be accused of threadjacking”
Er… because thats what you have actually done? Just a guess.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Toad thrives on rotten pq watermelons and Liarbour blow flies.
The slimy poisonous toad hates Christians.It is just like Stalin as it wants to dethrone God in heaven.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
This weekend is a long weekend, Liarbour Day.
Now the vandals will be out in force (ones that have jobs and pay tax)
No vandalism on the North Shore? why? think about this.
They are busy working instead of moaning and protesting.
We don’t attack billboards.
We VOTE
October 24th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
“I would like some of the Kiwibloggers (or JK himself) to justify John Key’s blatantly homophobic comments.”
OH MY GOD!!! JOHN KEY DOES NOT SIGN UP THE THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA!!!!!! QUICK, BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Somebody wake me up when he’s finsished ranting.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Lee, I am not anti-Christian, anti-Muslim or anti any other religion.
I am anti-bigotry and pro-human rights, so when Christians and Muslims take a homophobic stance (or when Lockwood takes a racist one for that matter) I will challenge them.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
“blatantly anti-gay organisations like Bob McCroskie’s Family Fist and Ian Grant’s Parents Inc.”
They don’t believe in boy buggery?
Shocking!
October 24th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
d4j said:Toad thrives on rotten pq watermelons and Liarbour blow flies. The slimy poisonous toad hates Christians.It is just like Stalin as it wants to dethrone God in heaven.
You dork! Get a life and get an argument. Lots of people on lots of blogs are getting very tired of ad hominem d4j.
And you have it all wrong. Even though I am an atheist I love Christians and Muslims, as I love all people. Actually, I don’t hate anyone d4j, not homophobes, not racists, hey, not even you!
October 24th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
“Lee, I am not anti-Christian,”
You belong to the Green Party don’t you?
“I am anti-bigotry”
Nooo, your in favour of your parties PC bigotry against anyone who does not sign up to the liberal-left agenda being imposed by the state.
Your leader described Christians who opposed the anti-smacking bill as “fundamentalists who want to BEAT their children”.
That’s a statement of pure bigotry and an example of hate speech, that puts Christian parents in danger.
Oh and “human rights” is just an excuse to impose your liberal agenda on people by force.
“hopefully scared off to the safety of the Greens.”
Yes toad, most people really want your lot telling them how many kids they should have and how good their showers should be!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
No toad. You Greens are anti-cars, anti-light bulbs, anti showers, anti capitalism, anti-FTA, anti-smacking, anti-freedom, anti-pies, anti-smoking, anti-OMG-what-have-I-missed.
There’s hardly time to be ‘anti’ anything else!
EDIT: Um, what Lee said!
October 24th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Lee said: They don’t believe in boy buggery?
Lee, we are talking about acts between consenting adults here. Nothing to do with paedophilia. Hey, where’s Graham Capill when the homophobes need him Lee? Sorry, the Courts decided he needed a long hiatus from his “political” activities.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Reaching I think Toad.
1. Key says he’ll get rid of the Families Commission. This is a really good idea, since the Families Commission are a waste of money. It is also necessary in order to form a coalition with United – you have to promise to get rid of them so that you can give it back to Dunne in coalition negotiations. So far, nothing to disagree with (except maybe giving it back).
2. He’ll instead have charitable organisations that are close to the community provide services directly. Avoiding the bureaucratic overhead of a Wellington agency. Some of those charitable organisations might be faith based ones. So also nothing to know, unless you think that faith based agencies should be excluded from receiving government money (I’d like to see that as a Green platform).
Of course, if you try really hard you can invent a beat up saying that Key is a homophobe. But it is clearly untrue – there is nothing about the guy that suggests he is a homophobe. Hell, he is talking about going into coalition with the openly gay Rodney Hide
You’ll need to try harder to turn this into a scandal – surely even our pathetic newspapers and TV shows wouldn’t buy this as a scandal. Then again, they managed to make a scandal out of Lockwood (straight) Smith’s ill-conceived but innocuous comments repeating something some other people had told him.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
The greens are anti truth and Toad you are full of blow lies.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Oh and toad, just before you accuse me of (shock, horror!) being politcally incorrect on the homosexual issue you might be surprised to know that three of may favourite people in the world are Lindsay Perigo (gay), Andrew Sullivan (gay) and the utterly brilliant conservative Tammy Bruce (lesbian).
Stop claiming to speak for people you have no right to. And stop pretending to be “outraged” about bigotry while you continue to excuse your own parties anti-Christian, anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I’ve got to give it to Dad, the vile shite he keeps coming up with is sometimes pretty unique. There really ought to be linguists following his shite, because it’s constant and we are treated to new stuff.
Said linguists are going through the books looking for blow lies
and Lee’s back to his fundy happy clappy best. Funny eh the first greenie was Jeseus himself. Toad I think he’s on to us, he’s found the master plan, the socialist homosexual vegan dawn was almost upon us.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Lee – that’s the Green way. Preaching their band of binary acceptability from a lofty, criticism inoculated platform.
All Green voters I know lack critical objectivity, and the Green party has become good at exploiting this blind patronage.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Funnily enough, all my gay friends (and yes I actually have some) are voting National. They don’t like nanny state anymore than I do, and they certainly get pissed off when pompous twats like toad claim to speak for them.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
newsflash, the Greens are not anti- Christian, American or Israeli.
However they are not above criticism, but even mildly intelligent people know that.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
I am not anti-Christian. I am very definitely anti-Bush/Cheney, but you seem to associate that with anti-Americanism. Hopefully we wil lse a move towards pro-American rather than anti-the-rest-of-the-world politics in the US in 10 days time. Although the US electoral system is still totally anti-democratic (FPP and the best elections money can buy) so I’m not getting my hopes too high.
As for Isreal, well I acknowledge that Jews have a right to their own State. I do not accept that they have the right to deny Palestinians that same right though. Something needs to be given on both sides there.
Anyway, I don’t think I have ever commented on the Israel/Palestine situation here, so where did you get that idea from anyway Lee?
October 24th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Toad,
PaulL has responded your hyped and conveniently selective propaganda well, with the actual facts.
Peddle it somewhere else bud, we are not fooled by you and your Pol Pot loving parties bullshit.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Toad nobody is scared of homosexuals, go play your silly little “pin the tail on the bigot” game somewhere else.
Toads definition of bigotry:
Anyone who disagrees with the left wing extremist agenda.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
“but even mildly intelligent people know that”
That excludes you then.
“so where did you get that idea from anyway Lee?”
I listen to what Keith Locke says. And I listen to what the communist/Marxist groups he’s connected with say.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Lee said: Funnily enough, all my gay friends (and yes I actually have some) are voting National. They don’t like nanny state anymore than I do, and they certainly get pissed off when pompous twats like toad claim to speak for them.
Actually, I was not claiming to speak for anyone. I was just quoting (and briefly affirming) what Green Candidate Kevin Hague (who is gay) had already said here.
As someone who is in a heterosexual relationship, I would never purport to speak for gays or lesbians (or any woman, whatever her sexuality for that matter).
Hey, and “nanny state” is good. Nannies look after you, remember! We need a bit more caring in this country, and a bit less hatred from the likes of d4j.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Whoops folks! I’ve just posted a note under the wrong topic about Winston.
Please see Griffin, about post 16, for query about the charity Winston has announced. Someone may be able to confirm this.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Look at Leeeeeee! doing his best to at being “politically correct” in regard to homosexuality. Good for you mate! Good on you.
So is it ok for you guys to be politically correct about some things but not others? What other forms of PC can you dig? Is gender equality cool with you guys? Do you think black-holes should be renamed african-american holes?
October 24th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Lee – I agree that Pol Pot was one of the worst tyrants of the 20th century.
But please move on. While you are worrying about Pol Pot, the rest of your comments are wallowing in Piss Pot!
October 24th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
“Hey, and “nanny state” is good. Nannies look after you,”
I do not need to be looked after, I’m an adult.
“Actually, I was not claiming to speak for anyone.”
Yes you were, your claiming to be outraged because JK thinks that that it may be wise to devolve some funding to pro-family groups and you claimed said groups are “anti-homosexual”.
“We need a bit more caring in this country”
I agree. But toad, caring comes from the heart, it is not imposed by the state.
Look, in all seriousness I thinks it is good that you care about people, including “homosexuals”. But your bigoted attack on Family First and Ian Grant (Ian in particular does very good work with parents) strongly suggests to me that your the kind of “caring” person who defines caring in a pro-state, politically correct way that excludes many caring caring people like Ian Grant. It’s a politically motivated, Big Brother form of caring that easily slides into tyranny and persecution of others, as you have done here.
I think you have a good heart, I really do. But your so blinded by political correctness that you attack others who are also caring, but who may not sign up to your version of it.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
A couple of toads “I’m not anti-Christian” [Tui?!?] statements:
Yes- my Baptist church has bomb-making classes each Wednesday evening. Bring a plate.
Nice word associations there – eh?
October 24th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
idiotboy (good name by the way)
I don’t claim to be politically correct about anything.
I have gay friends because I am a human being. Being PC has nothing to do with it. My caring for them comes from the heart, not obedience to political stupidities like PC.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Getstaffed has exposed you bigotry toad.
In response, conservative evangelical Christian ARE the mainstream now toad. We outnumber the old mainline churches by a longshot. My church has a five thousand strong congregation, and we add over ten new converts every week. We are NOT fundamentalist extremists. Most of the evangelical Christians I know are moderate to hardcore libertarians who vote National or ACT. the old Christian Heritage party never managed to gain much of the evangelical vote.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Lee said: Getstaffed has exposed you bigotry toad.
Come on Lee! Getstaffed trawled for a couple of my comments from days past. They both show clearly that I am not anti any religion, but I am anti so-called religious views that expound homophobia and hitting children.
You make the mistake of associating my assertion of opposing “fundamentalism” with opposing “evangelism”. They are actually very different, and your failure to appreciate that, Lee, exposes your lack of theological knowledge. Not that I am an expert in theology either, but at least I know that much.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
C’mon Toad. The Green voters on this site are amongst the biggest bigots I have ever heard- Nome, Paul (disturbed of linwood) & Philu
You guys really cover your tracks in the general public well
October 24th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
toad,
“Come on Lee! Getstaffed trawled for a couple of my comments from days past.”
Yes, he exposed the truth of your views. Are you claiming that you do not now agree with what you said then?
“I am anti so-called religious views that expound homophobia and hitting children.”
Being personally opposed to same sex behaviour is not a phobia. That dishonest line alone exposes your bigotry. If a person is personally opposed to drug addiction, does that mean that he is “phobic” about drug addicts? If a person is opposed to the social destruction of gambling, does that mean he has a phobia against gamblers?
Of course not. Using dishonest hate terms like “homophobia” provers your a bigot.
Most of the Christians I know do NOT hit their children, largely due to the influence of good people like Ian Grant, who promote positive parenting. Your dishonest rhetoric, and that of the vile Green Party, on this issue prove that your a bigot.
Now, read carefully, I said you were a bigot against EVANGELICAL Christians, not evangelism. The two are different things.
Theology and Christian history (along with economics) are my areas of expertise bud. You want to take me on, be my guest. My wife might like to take you on as well, she is currently studying for a degree in theology.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Final point,
Being opposed to the state criminalizing smacking does NOT automatically mean people against this law “beat” their children, as toad and his vile party leader dishonestly claim.
I actually don’t think smacking is a good form of behaviour modification, and do not use it myself. But there is NO need for the state to turn parents that do use it into criminals.
Toad and Russell Normans continued dishonest and bigoted hate speech against those who opposed this law change (on the basis that the state should not criminalise good parents) proves my point that they are hate mongers and lying bigots throwing around dishonest propaganda to try and increase their pathetic polling.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Lee said: Being personally opposed to same sex behaviour is not a phobia.
No, Lee, it is not a phobia (in the medical sense) but it is still homophobic. You are falsely associating the medical term “phobia” with the sociological term “homophobia”. Different brances of science I’m afraid, and the extrapolation, event though the terms have similar etymology, is just not valid.
Lee, your last couple of post are starting to sound quite nasty and spiteful to both me and now Russel Norman. I would not have thought that is what a good Christian would do – love thine enemy and all that stuff!.
Anyway Lee, Goodnight (with big tonguey kisses and all – not homosexual of course, just very friendly)!
October 25th, 2008 at 12:03 am
” I was just quoting (and briefly affirming) what Green Candidate Kevin Hague (who is gay) had already said…”
Oh and lets talk about Kevin shall we.
Due to Kevins mis management of grey base hospital, women are now giving birth while on the road to Christchurch. Now any pregnant woman that has even slight complications or needs to be induced, yes induced!! has to find her own way to Christchurch hospital 250km away.
The mental health unit is an absolute joke, the staff are fed up, and the hospital cannot replace those that leave.
When you combine all this with Kevins revisionist beliefs on NZ history, and the treaty of Waitangi, he makes a wonderful adition to the green party.
Toad you are quoting from a source that is even further left than you are and even less credible, you and your friend are some of the most ignorant, bigoted, intollerant people in this country, your “tolerance” is nothing but an ideology.
You say you are tolerant cause your ideology says you must be, well I don’t buy it.
October 25th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Toad:
Funny. That sounds a lot like the behavior of the Labour Party and their cohorts, the Green Party. Who has aided and stood by them through retrospective legislation to legalize overspends, helped them secretly craft the Electoral Finance Bill and has done everything to help Labour ensure that this election, like the last one, will be bought by the Labour and Green parties.
You are what people have called you.
Anti American. Anti Christian. A total bigot. And you proudly support everything you decry in others. But then, I don’t like you. Never have, never will. Your type of nanny state interference and the communistic control tendencies you have disgust me.
October 25th, 2008 at 12:47 am
“No, Lee, it is not a phobia (in the medical sense) but it is still homophobic.”
Which is a blatant contradiction.
“You are falsely associating the medical term “phobia” with the sociological term “homophobia”.”
Because only the medical term is accurate. The so-called “sociological” term is dishonest propaganda.
“Lee, your last couple of post are starting to sound quite nasty and spiteful to both me and now Russel Norman.”
“I would not have thought that is what a good Christian would do, love thine enemy and all that stuff!”
I do care about both you and Russell toad. That is why I am so staunch about exposing the hypocritical and dishonest anti-Christian hate you both peddle. I don’t want you to burn when the last day is upon us.
You did read the post where I said I think you have a good heart right? But I seriously think your blinded and corrupted by partisan political loyalty and political correctness. And I find it offensive when you come to this blog and, without a care for the damage you might do to them and their families, throw around accusations of racism and homophobia at good people. There are many things you could say about Lockwood Smith. He’s a mistake prone buffoon for a start. But nobody with an ounce of decency and honesty would claim that he’s a racist trying to exploit some dark underbelly of NZ society. Hell even a staunch left wing Maori activist like Willy Jackson defended him, saying he was a good man who had just made a silly mistake.
Same for Bob McCroskie and Ian Grant. They are both good and decent men who do a great deal of good in the community. But you, in your Pharisee like arrogance come on this blog and spew hate against them because they do not sign up to your version of extreme social liberalism.
You and Russell Norman are fine about spreading hate and character assasination against anyone who does not conform to you fascist and legalistic political correctness, and you do not care about the damage you do to peoples lives in the process.
And for what? For nothing more than political gain in an election.
So before you try to remove the twig from my eye or anyone else’s, remove the forest from your own.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Lee, you are totally owning Toad’s arse!
October 25th, 2008 at 5:42 am
The Left are dirty bastards.
They’ll get their beans on 8 November.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:32 am
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap][clap] [clap][clap] [clap]
(the sound of me applauding Lee’s outstanding, well reasoned debate]
October 25th, 2008 at 8:53 am
If the Greens found out that hetrosexuality was bad for the environment Toad would be the first to run home from the Green Party office and suck down a cold one
And he’ll make sure each and every one of you do the same!
October 25th, 2008 at 9:05 am
but clint, necrophylia is illegal, why would toad suck down a cold one?
October 25th, 2008 at 9:06 am
oops! sorry toad! i get it now, honest mistake!
October 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
“Anyway Lee, Goodnight (with big tonguey kisses and all – not homosexual of course, just very friendly)!”
You sure you’re not gay toad?
October 25th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Because its a fucking public service rat. DUH.
and I said nothing about shooting them, I simply carried a cost comparision exercise. When i need so fucking leftie to put words in my mouth I still have Helen telling me what “all New Zealanders” think/
For a few more days anyway.
October 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
toad (553) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating10 Says:
October 24th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
“I am not anti-Christian. I am very definitely anti-Bush/Cheney, but you seem to associate that with anti-Americanism. Hopefully we wil lse a move towards pro-American rather than anti-the-rest-of-the-world politics in the US in 10 days time. Although the US electoral system is still totally anti-democratic (FPP and the best elections money can buy) so I’m not getting my hopes too high.
As for Isreal, well I acknowledge that Jews have a right to their own State. I do not accept that they have the right to deny Palestinians that same right though. Something needs to be given on both sides there.”
SOOOoooo, Toad, you must be gravely concerned about one Barack Obama “buying” the US election by outspending his political opponent on advertising, SIX TIMES TO ONE……..?
On Israel, Toad, does it occur to you that Israel is about the size of the Kapiti Coast plus Manawatu? So whether the Jew homeland was going to be 14 thousand square kilometers or 18 thousand square kilometers, is of all moment in the issue of whether the “Palestinians” can also have THEIR own state…….given that Jordan is already 100,000 square kilometers?
I mean, suppose 60 years ago some Jews had to move from Upper Hutt to the Kapiti Coast and some Palestinians had to move from the Kapiti Coast to Upper Hutt, when the borders were drawn. And those “Palestinians” descendants are still clamouring and committing terrorism today because they want THEIR bit of the Kapiti Coast “back”?
I mean, if these people were Christians or almost any other race or religion than what they are, they would have been taken in with open arms by their brethren in the surrounding regions and they would have bloody got OVER it. Heck, is Jerusalem an integral part of the Jewish history or WHAT? Why shouldn’t they just have it? The “Palestinians” have got Bethlehem, incidentally, and no-one (except me) is suggesting that they DON’T have historical connections with it like the Jews DO.
No-one (except me, tongue in cheek) is suggesting that us Christians should get Constantinople “back”.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
FOR TOAD’S BENEFIT:
Greens Aim to Take Us Forward to the Past
By Steven Milloy
Fox News | 10/24/2008
“If you need more evidence that the Greens intend to destroy our standard of living, you need not look further than the Oct. 18 issue of New Scientist magazine — the cover of which reads, “The Folly of Growth: How to stop the economy killing the planet.”
The issue features eight articles that New Scientist editors believe justify their editorial entitled, “Why economic growth is killing the planet and what we can do about it.” Presented below the editorial is an ominously drawn graph purporting to show how global temperatures, population, carbon dioxide concentrations, GDP and loss of tropical rainforest and woodland have dramatically spiked upward since 1750, and how species extinctions, water use, motor vehicle use, paper consumption, fisheries exploitation, ozone depletion and foreign investment spiked during the 20th century.
The editorial concludes that “the science tells us that if we are serious about saving the Earth,” economic growth must be limited.
In the first essay, University of Surrey (UK) sustainable development professor Tim Jackson doubts renewable energy technologies will work without reduced consumption. Rather than buying an energy efficient TV, he says, you ought to consider not buying a TV at all.
Next, prominent Canadian Green David Suzuki says that nothing is more important than the environment and that we need to lower our standard of living. You need to judge your standard of living by “quality of life, your relationships with other people and your community,” Suzuki says. Stores filled with food, record longevity and wealth are an “illusion,” he asserts, because we’re using up our children’s and grandchildren’s inheritance.
University of Maryland ecological economist Herman Daly claims that we’ve passed the point where economic growth provides benefits and that we need to “transform our economy from a forward-moving aeroplane to a hovering helicopter,” but that such a “steady-state” economy “doesn’t have to mean freezing in the dark under a communist tyranny.” In trying to explain his latter comment, he says that “Most of the changes could be applied gradually, in mid-air,” by which he apparently means replacing the income tax with a tax on goods to “encourage people to use them sparingly.” Although he acknowledges that this regressive policy would hurt the poor, he says taxes could be used to provide welfare.
James Gustave Speth — Yale University dean, co-founder of the Natural Resources Defense Council and former adviser to President Jimmy Carter — says that green values stand no chance against market capitalism. Economic growth “creates barriers to dealing with real problems,” he says. While we need to spend more money on social services and environmental protection, he is “not advocating state socialism,” he claims, but rather a “non-socialist alternative to today’s capitalism,” whatever that means.
Andrew Simms of London’s New Economics Foundation describes as “disingenuous” the argument that global economic growth is needed to eradicate poverty. He says that “we have to overcome knee-jerk rejection of the ‘R’ word — redistribution” and that we need a “Green New Deal” that controls capital and raises taxes to create environmental jobs.
Susan George of the Amsterdam-based Transnational Institute advocates developing a World War II-type mentality toward life including rationing, “victory” or home gardens and the government run by wealthy elites who would work for a salary of $1 per year.
London Metropolitan University “environmental philosopher” Kate Soper says that the tourist industry, food service industry, dating services and gyms are evidence that we need to shift to a less work-intensive economy. “Of course, we would have to “sacrifice some conveniences and pleasures: creature comforts such as regular steaks, hot tubs, luxury cosmetics and easy foreign travel,” she says, but “human ingenuity will surely contrive a range of more eco-friendly excitements.”
What’s missing from the New Scientist compilation of Green-think, of course, are essays from Thomas Malthus, Karl Marx and, perhaps, Al Gore. Malthus, a prominent 19th century economist, famously predicted that a geometrically expanding human population would outpace the arithmetically expanding food supply. Unable to foresee the improvements in agricultural technology, he turned out to be entirely wrong.
Karl Marx could have chimed in with his communist slogan, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” — where the government gets to determine what your needs are. As implemented in the Soviet Union and Communist China, Marxism resulted in the starvation and murder of perhaps more than 100 million people and the political and social repression of the survivors.
Al Gore could have contributed an essay reassuring Green elites that none of this wealth redistribution and standard of living contraction would affect those who, like him, can already afford home indoor heated pools or those who can could afford to spend $65,000 and three weeks jetting around the world with the World Wildlife Fund.
The New Scientist essays reveal how the Greens aim to eviscerate life as we know it. They want to take us from 200 years of “more-bigger-better” to a future of “less-smaller-worse.” Won’t happen, you say?
With Barack Obama leading in the polls, one of his advisers recently issued an ultimatum to Congress regulate carbon dioxide emissions in 18 months, or an Obama EPA will do it unilaterally. And then there’s Obama’s famous colloquy with “Joe the Plumber,” where he said he was for redistributing the wealth. And let’s not forget Obama’s comment in May that “We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times…”
Obama has said he’s for economic growth, yet he’s willing to force-feed us Green policies that would crush it. And as it turns out, that’s what the Greens are really after in the first place.”
October 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
PhilBest:
Do you think so? Toad is a communist and votes for the Greens. The morality of a person like that is selective and in this application Toad would applaud it because it gets rid of Bush / Cheney. The same as Labour and the Greens’ overspending, electoral rorts and so forth.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Here’s some more “morality” from the same link Toad posted above,
http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_6650.php
but hey, we’ve gotta stop that evil family first from having an influence over the NZ family, what we need is the morals of the homosexual community to shine forth.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
“Although the US electoral system is still totally anti-democratic”
Thats a laugh coming from a member of the Green Party, the party which supported the most profound attack on democracy in NZ history in the form of the Electoral Finance Act.
And why? Because the EB told the truth about your party and you got auntie Helen to stomp on them and anyone else who dares to speak up.
Don’t pretend to us that you care one bit about democracy.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
OMG!!!!!
THIS is the guy that toad thinks is in a position to attack Bob McCroskie and Ian Grant???
http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_6650.php
A freaking sicko porn star????
What a joke!
October 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Sorry, the above post should read “these are the people” not “this is the guy”.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Lee:
Exactly. Well said Lee.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
It would seem that Ian Grant’s parenting site has been attacked and infected by a third party with malware.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
# Pascal (1678) Vote: Add rating1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
PhilBest:
SOOOoooo, Toad, you must be gravely concerned about one Barack Obama “buying” the US election by outspending his political opponent on advertising, SIX TIMES TO ONE……..?
“Do you think so? Toad is a communist and votes for the Greens. The morality of a person like that is selective and in this application Toad would applaud it because it gets rid of Bush / Cheney. The same as Labour and the Greens’ overspending, electoral rorts and so forth.”
Sorry, was my sarcasm not clear enough in the first place?