Stupid
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:24 am by David FarrarStuff is reporting comments from Lockwood Smith that at best are stupid and at worst offensive:
“There are some skills in the vineyard that some people are perhaps better at,” Dr Smith was reported saying in the Marlborough Express newspaper.
“For example some of the pruning…some of the Asian workers have been more productive…because their hands are smaller.”
Dr Smith said employers should not be solely responsible for teaching or funding training that prepared workers for life in New Zealand.
“Some of them are having to teach them things like how to use a toilet or shower…I don’t think the employer should have to pay for that work.
The RSE scheme is 78% Pacific Island, so the latter comment is being seen as referring to Pacific Islanders.
Lockwood has apologised for his comments, which were repeating what employers had told him:
“My comments, regarding the extent to which employers, under the RSE scheme were being required to provide life skills training to RSE workers, were simply reporting the strong concerns expressed to me by many employers.
“These reported concerns have been expressed in the media previously, and there has been strong advocacy for future changes to the scheme to deal with them.
“Presented in the way they were, I can see that my reported comments may have caused offence. I sincerely regret that because it certainly was not my intention.
Lockwood should not have made the comments, regardless of what employers have told him. Firstly racial generalisations in public are rarely helpful – even if accurate that many Asians do have smaller hands.
The comments on some RSE workers needing teaching to use a toilet or shower are more unwise, in fact quite offensive. I am sure it is true that some workers have needed this teaching, but Lockwood’s mistake was to repeat this anecdotal evidence without any context at all – is it 1% of RSE workers, 10% or 50%? By just referring to anecdotal evidence, it allows people to assume it is a massive problem – something I suspect it not correct. Certainly I would be offended if I was an RSE workers by those comments as it tars them all with the same brush.
In an election campaign, the need for discipline is paramount. Especially in an election where there will be few being spending policy announcements, so stuff like this can end up as a big story for many days.
John Key I have no doubt is bloody angry with Lockwood – both for the comments per se, but also the timing. An option that will be in play is whether the comments merit sacking Lockwood – Roar Prawn certainly thinks this should happen.
I think it is a close call. It would be very sad for Lockwood’s career to end on such a stupidity. He has been a very hard working and diligent MP and Spokesperson – exposing many a wrong-doing in the Immigration Service. We do need to be careful not to demand MPs be without fault. I am not saying one should do a Helen and keep Winston with the baubles of office no matter what he says or does. But few MPs never ever stuff up.
On the other hand, not sacking Lockwood may cause the comments to be more than a one day issue, and sometimes you have to be pragmatic and just accept politics can be very harsh. Sacking Lockwood would also reinforce to National MPs the consequences of stupid utterances in election campaigns.
There are only 17 days left before the election. This means that what positive news National wanted to get out today, will be over-shadowed by this. Stupid indeed.
Related posts:
- The boy who cried wolf
- It’s the economy, stupid!
- Unions plan “name and shame” campaign
- A stupid article
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
sacking is a bit harsh.
i think everyone is a wee bit precious and PC..
im sure if i moved to samoa i would need to be shown things.. doesnt make it racist?
as for the small hands.. umm so?
PI’s are naturally bigger, stronger and more muscly than asains.. what a terrible thing for them lol
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
“Firstly racial generalisations in public are rarely helpful ”
Thank you David, finally some reason around some issues. Racial generalisations are not Politically Incorrect, they are racist generalisations.
[DPF: I don't agree. Racial generalisations are not taboo, but the mistake is to assume generalisations apply to all members of that race, and/or to use a generalisation where it is not necessary. For example if talking about crime rates it is useful to acknowledge the higher Maori crime rate. It is not useful to just go around saying "Maori are more violent'. Context is everything.]
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:30 am
Is it just me, or do others also despair at the foot in mouth style of the old National guard – Williamson, L.Smith, Ryall who seemd to have learned nothing about winning elections, despite their many years in politics.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:32 am
LIke Williamson yesterday, Lockwood Smith is being stupid.
Key should sack him, as Smith managed to offend Pacific Islanders, Asians and probably a great many others.
If Key wants to win votes in South Auckland and get the new faces on National’s list into Parliament then Lockwood Smith should be sacked. It is time motor mouths like Williamson and Smith paid the price for their stupidity. Further, whoever is handling National’s media management needs firing as well, fancy letting Williamson and Smith out on their own.
In addition it will not have gone down too well with the Maori Party either I suspect.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:35 am
why are asians offended??
run it through this little test..
if he had said “they have bigger hands than white kiwis”… or “white kiwis have smaller hands than pacific islanders”… would that really have ruined your day?
would you have felt like you had been racially abused?
really?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:35 am
I thought being stupid was normal for demented politicians in this gay paradise country.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:36 am
“It is time motor mouths like Williamson and Smith paid the price for their stupidity”
Frankly – they are yesterday’s men. JK should dump them both and move on – they are not deserving of office.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:36 am
Lockwood Smith Doomed!
The Dashing Conor Roberts for Rodney! The District That Is! Not Hide!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Meanwhile Winnie’s still scratching his head wondering what all the fucking ado over nothing is about…
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:38 am
FROM THE “General Debate” thread:
# PhilBest (3165) 2 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
# toad (535) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:41 am
“Anyone here want to defend these comments by Lockwood Smith?”
“Are those comments by Lockwood Smith objectionable because they are FALSE, or because they are POLITICALLY INCORRECT, “Toad”?”
# adc (233) 1 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
“toad. You had me interested, but when I looked at the comments, it said more about you than him.
“Racist” now has a lot more meaning that originally, just prejudiced in some way based on race. It’s a highly pejorative term.
There are some divisions that are necessarily made based on race. Our DNA doesn’t care about ideology.
Are you disputing that Asians often have smaller hands than some other ethnic groups?
Are you disputing that smaller hands could be a desirable attribute for some jobs?
Are you disputing whether or not some employers have been having to teach workers how to use a toilet or shower?
Do you think this should be an employer’s responsibility?
Where do you think Lockwood Smith got this from, if not directly from employers.
The only slim point you have is that perhaps Lockwood Smith was implying that because someone may be asian, they may be better suited to certain work because of having smaller hands. This is true. they MAY, if they do indeed have small hands. You wouldn’t hire anyone (asian or otherwise) with enormous hands if you wanted them to do a job that required small hands would you?
Having a problem with that is like having a problem with a tiger having stripes being better able to hide in long grass than an elephant.
Some drugs cannot be given to people of middle eastern descent (because it will harm them). Is that “racist”?
Men can’t give birth to babies. Is that “sexist”?
I can’t swim as fast as Michael Phelps (do I care? No). If someone reminds me of that are they “elitist”? Should we make Michael Phelps swim slower so everyone else can get over themselves?
Bloody egalitarians should be lined up…. we are all different as we should be.. we need to get over it. Focus on the positive – what you can do, not what you can’t.”
# Razork (42) 1 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:02 am
“I’ll defend Lockwood Smith.
But first, how about someone tell me what he said that needs defending?
Some jobs are better done by people with small hands. (TRUE)
Asian people tend to have smaller hands. (TRUE)
Some polynesian people new to NZ need to be shown food handling hygiene standards. (TRUE)
I’ll defend any and all of that.”
# CraigM (245) 1 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:16 am
“Anyone here want to defend these comments by Lockwood Smith?”
“Toady, have you become so politicaly correct that you find those comments offensive?
Re the toilet comments, Have you ever been to Asia? (other than staying in western hotels)
Re the “small hands”, it is not only true, it is smart. e.g For centuries the Italians have been using women and children to pick olives as strong men ruin the crop. It is just smart. Following your doctrine, it is ok to use the woman and children, but not to say publicly that you do. That is stupid.
You seem to confuse honesty and reality for racism and bigotry. Again, that is stupid.
Perhaps if you climbed down of that high horse, you might have a better perception of reality.”
# dime (499) 1 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:22 am
“TOAD – how the hell is that racism???
Pacific Islanders also have bigger dicks than asians! they dont complain about that
actually, whos complaining? white guys with beards again?
heres a statement from Dime
“pacific islanders are naturally more athletic than white guys”
sure, there are exceptions to the rules.. but
is that racist?”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
On this subject:
FJORDMAN: “The Anti-Racist Witch-Hunts”:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3576
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
And as usual, the limp “centre right” just kowtow to the political correctness thought police. Speak even the most innocuous truth, and you will be delivered up even by your “centre right” allies to be sacrificed on the altar of the P.C. Deity.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
Smith and Williamson have both been around the traps long enough to know how things work.
If they are not capable of pre-determining how their utterances will be interpreted/spun/extrapolated then they’re ballast, and should be shed.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
The more important issue is the value of the RSE schemes. According to an Otago newspaper, these were in fact begun at the suggestion of a World Bank official. I don’t know why an international bureaucrat should be poking his nose into New Zealand.
The report also suggested a factor was Ministry of Foreign Affairs interest in gaining island state voting support at the International Whaling Forum, against Japanese bribes to support legal whaling.
The schemes have cut out much work that previously went to thousands of young backpackers, who contribute much to tourism and will undoubtedly in future be more likely to buy NZ food exports. Many will be quite likely to return as affluent tourists when they are old.
Further it has cut into the part-time employment of people in regional towns, in places such as Cromwell. These are typically mums out to supplement family income.
I also understand that it is only larger orchards that can join the RSE schemes. The requirements are usually too expensive for small orchards.
The promoters of the schemes, according to the Otago printed reports, have called on churches etc to help with the migrant workers. It is also unclear that the horticulture employers are paying health costs as was suggested when the schemes were originally suggested (again I draw on the Otago printed reports).
Key as usual is rushing in here. He needs to be careful. It was under Jenny Shipley and other former National ministers that the immigration structure has been changed in New Zealand. It is undoubtedly wrong to discriminate against people who are already in the country, but National started, and Labour has continued what amounts to a racial re-engineering of the country. This may well be beneficial, but the point is that it was never debated, and never approved by the people politically.
Those pushing it use the Joker card of “racism” to shut down any debate about migration components, let alone criticism of what has happened.
All of this has been a lifeline to Peters and NZ First, as well as a scandalous trampling on New Zealanders’ democratic rights. What a contrast between the elaborate and continuing Waitangi Treaty issues, which applied to the first big racial re-engineering of the country, and to the silent, politically correct, and undemocratic changes that have occurred in the last 15 years.
There is another point. Why should horticulture benefit from cheap migrant labour while, say teaching, does not? And why should rural workers’ wages be anchored by this relatively low-wage competition while Auckland cafe workers’ wages are not. Is this not a big economic distortion?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
“Key should sack him, as Smith managed to offend Pacific Islanders, Asians and probably a great many others.”
Since when is every NZer in desperate need of being saved from the terrible fate of being offended.???
I reject the consensus that Lockwood Smith has erred. Given the pathetic posturing of Adam Smith and his left wing friends, strategically perhaps so, but morally he has not. NZers must reject the insidious evil of politically correct restrictions on speech. I applaud Lockwood Smith for speaking out and I admonish him for his apology.
“In addition it will not have gone down too well with the Maori Party either I suspect.”
Good grief. To hell with the Maori Party. The foundations of their party are race based. Grow a brain.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
I think sacking is overkill, and I disagree that this issue will overshadow the whole day’s campaign. It was a stupid comment that showed poor judgement, however, and I suspect Key will be very mindful of it when he appoints his Cabinet. Likewise with Williamson. They’re both just incapable of showing the kind of discipline expected of guys who have each spent 9 years in Cabinet.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:44 am
No he shouldn’t sack him but he should give him a very hard boot up the arse. I’ve had the misfortune to rent an office where the toilet was used by the pupils from a Chinese run English language school next door. Most of the pupils were adults, some in their sixties. They had never seen a western toilet before so they used to leave the lid down, climb up and squat with one foot on either side of the bowl and shit all over the lid, the walls and the floor. But now everything is OK. We have a free trade agreement with them.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
FACE THE PC POLICE DOWN- NEVER APOLOGISE.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
I attended a meeting at which Tony Ryall spoke last night. He kept the feet out of the mouth quite successfully.
Vote:Back to Lockwood, when is stating a fact racism and/or offensive? Do we have to wander around making meally mouthed utterances to avoid the risk of offending some group?
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
Asians have small hands? really? I figured that out the first time I tried to work on my RGV250 Suzuki. Not just small, but multi-jointed.
As to people needing to be taught hygiene standards when they come here….They teach refugees how to use toilets at Mangere. If you have not grown up with flushing toilets you may well need to be taught their use. Anyone remember the stories of Russian soldiers in Germany after WWII wondering what the strange white porcelain things in German bathrooms were.
Hardly rascist, but given the climate of fear of offending anyone, probably not the smartest two weeks from an election.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
In the words of Dearly Beloved Heavenly Leader Nothing to see here move on Ive got an election to win
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
I’m not sure I get it.
He said some Asian workers are more productive because they have smaller hands. If smaller hands make for more productive work, then people with smaller hands will be more productive workers. If some Asian workers have smaller hands, they will indeed be more productive.
And if employers are having to train some workers on basic hygiene, that’s an understandable concern for those employers, whoever the workers are.
Could someone explain to me what Lockwood Smith did that was so wrong that there’s a serious conversation about sacking going on?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
His phrasing was perhaps not the best. But it’s not a sackable offence.
He might want to retire in 2011 however.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 11:58 am
17 days out is not the time to be having a backfoot discussion about the invasion of PC in to society. What Lockwood did that was so wrong was gift one to two days of air time to the bad guys and with his experience he should be a safe pair of hands.
Not sure if it is sacking standards although would make a nice contrast to Clark/Winston.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Ryan Sproull Sigh Because whilst the economy is going down the drain and the Gumint is acting like a headless chook not knowing what to do and the Governor of the RB is busy stoking the fires of inflation the dumbarses are more worried about that Lockie said.
Get a life get over it and start to think about what really important you twats.
Not that it worries me as the more dumb arse economic policies the better off I am financially
All you gotta do is play the cards according to where the they fall.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
What a load of politically correct crap.
Vote:I have a family member who was working at a vineyard in Marlborough for a number of years (not as an unskilled laborer) and you wouldn’t believe the stuff that goes on with imigrant workers, it is unbeleivable.
And the pacific islanders ARE the worst. You get a situation for example where after lunch you check on progress and find all the “workers” laying down under trees, when asked whats going on they reply they have already earnt 50 bucks and that is enough for one days work.
If people believe it is racist to expose the particular problems some cultures are having in NZ, you are not only doing a disservice to those cultures by robbing them of a chance to improve, you are actively fostering a fertile bed for racism and division to become entrenched in NZ societey.
This is bull shit, Lockwood was un wise, it dosen’t make him racist and he certainly shouldn’t lose his bloody job over it!!
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
He should be sacked for stupidity and lack of political savvy.
National has a candidate of PI descent in South Auckland, such comments are not going to win him any votes I would suggest.
I never said Smith was racist, I said he was stupid for making these remarks and offending some people.
He is stupid for saying these things during an election campaign. For me the issue is not one of being PC, but of his being inept and handing an issue to Labour for them to exploit.
My suggestion that he should be sacked is on the basis of ‘pour encourager les autres’ as too many in National are loose lipped and careless.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
This issue is pure BS and important only to those obsessed with politics and things PC – it will not resonate with most Kiwis. I do feel sorry for Key though having to manage some of the old guard turkeys in the National Party – they are a very dreary lot who have not mastered their trade at all.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“I attended a meeting at which Tony Ryall spoke last night. He kept the feet out of the mouth quite successfully.”
Meaning he was verbally crippled by the so called right’s subservience to the idea that certain words and ideas are offensive. It is a concept that has been immensely helpful in establishing the cultural dominance of the socialists. We must get back to speaking the truth without such suffocating fear of criticism.
If the Nats had the courage and the articulation skills, and the damn idea to begin with, they could turn this into a vote winner.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
When I was a young child I thought the bidet was for number ones, and the toilet for number twos!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
“My suggestion that he should be sacked is on the basis of ‘pour encourager les autres’ as too many in National are loose lipped and careless.”
Your suggestion that he should be sacked is an example of gutless compliance with the jack booted cultural police of socialism. Post under a different name. You’re a disgrace to the person whose name you have assumed in such an ill mannered fashion.
I’m of the view that many in National should go, but to join with the left in criticising some of them for something like this is IMHO just spineless surrender.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Meanwhile the “unbiased” media cannot help themselves and are having a field day.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:16 pm
The bigger issue here is the way the pinko media slime have leapt all over this story.
Week after week we hear this type of shit from Winston yet the media do nothing, now as soon as Lockwood opens his stupid mouth the media are all over it like a rash.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
“Meanwhile the “unbiased” media cannot help themselves and are having a field day.”
Exactly- and this is a result of weak and spineless subservience to them and their enforcement of the “laws” of political correctness. Its time to confront these leftist scum posing as journalists with the real anger their partisan propaganda generates.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
“When I was a young child I thought the bidet was for number ones, and the toilet for number twos!”
So I guess the last two or three years have been so much easier for you.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I think it might have been a clever and calculated ploy by Lockwood to court the residual NZFirst vote so as to minimise their chances of getting back into Parliament.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Look at it this way.
If anyone knows what the personal habits of recent arrivals from the islands are, it will be educated and thinking immigrants from those islands. If they are honest with themselves they will recognise that what Smith said is true and beyond dispute and he will lose nothing from having said it.
Anyone who is offended is therefore by definition unthinking and uneducated and equally by definition likely to be a labour supporter in which case the nats will have lost nothing from it.
Having said that there will be a bunch of numpty bleeding heart tree-huggers who will assume offence on behalf of others which is entirely consistent with their philosophy of telling others how to think and act and speak. Will that affect the support for the Nats? – I doubt it.
But there will also be a bunch of useless lazy twats in the media who will look to HC for direction and will jump all over this like a rash without a second thought as to what they are saying.
Now that WILL OFFEND some people!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm
He should be sacked not for racism or bigotry but outright stupidity.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Blockwood Smith… I remember him from, the old W3 program on telly in the late seventies.
Here’s a what for 60, Lockwood.
Q: What don’t you say 17 days out from an election?
A: Dumb shit that the media can jump all over and give oxygen to opposition claims of racism.
Fucking moron.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
“17 days out is not the time to be having a backfoot discussion about the invasion of PC in to society.”
Dunno about that. I think it should be an election issue.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Hope the Nats weren’t counting on the PI vote much!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Maybe not so much the islanders. Anyone who’s been to Asia can understand why some of them may need to be told how to use a throne. Same goes for NZers and those er, floor level things over there.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
“Meaning he was verbally crippled by the so called right’s subservience to the idea that certain words and ideas are offensive. It is a concept that has been immensely helpful in establishing the cultural dominance of the socialists. We must get back to speaking the truth without such suffocating fear of criticism.”
Absolutely flippin correct.
Vote:Everyone has become so pacified by the left that we have allowed sound judgement to become bigotry. This PC crap has got to be rooted out and stuffed back in the orrifice of the left from wence it came.
The left have the flaming nerve to use words like credibility, truth and integrity and cause they believe their own B S so well, people accept it.
No body will stop the hand wringing media by submitting to their tactics, stop talking about stategic retreat (sacking Lockwood) and go on the bloody offensive for crying out loud. You don’t win a fight by retreating, we’ve almost run out of bloody ground!!!
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“Nobody will stop the hand wringing media by submitting to their tactics, stop talking about stategic retreat (sacking Lockwood) and go on the bloody offensive for crying out loud. You don’t win a fight by retreating, we’ve almost run out of bloody ground!!!”
Damn right- applause..!!!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
So much anger and aggression, redbaiter. I don’t think many people in New Zealand subscribe to your strange hatred and vitriol towards anybody who even slightly disagrees with you. Perhaps it was you who missed out on the potty-training.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“I don’t think many people in New Zealand subscribe to your strange hatred and vitriol towards anybody who even slightly disagrees with you.”
Too much lame subservience to socialism is what has put us in the almost unrecoverable situation we are in today. You are the one who should be feeling shame for your weak compliance over the years, as currently exampled by your willingness to conform to the disgusting levels of censorship that apply on a well known blog you patronise so frequently. You have been losing for all these years, and you still want to lose.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
” I don’t think many people in New Zealand subscribe to your strange hatred and vitriol towards anybody who even slightly disagrees with you.”
Thats probably cause you are an ignorant narcissist who equates strong emotion on anything as illegitamate.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
This is a disgrace!
Shame on you adamsmith, shame on you NZ media and, with all respect, DPF, I think you’re wrong on this issue.
What has Lockwood said that’s wrong? Nothing. What has he said that’s defamatory or hurts anybody? Still nothing. Do we live in a country with free speech or not?
Fact: We need people like Lochwood Smith, good, hard-working, ordinary kiwis who have experience in running productive businesses, NOT ivory tower academics with no idea of how the ordinary world works. If we turn against Lockwood Smith we are turning against the very things needed to save our country – speaking plainly and standing firm against subversion of our culture.
If we attack Lockwood Smith, we attack ourselves.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
BTW: Jacqui Dean wasn’t banned when she suggested that we ban water, which is a much stupider comment than Smiths idiotic comments.
Perhaps she should go as well.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I read the article in the Herald and can’t see anything offensive or racist in it. Lockwood is stating the results of his enquiries from growers as to what their concerns were..The media beatup is politically correct claptrap and a refusal to confront issues the like response of which causes our decision makers to avoid taking any action to put a stop to tragedies such as Nia Glassie personifies.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“Fact: We need people like Lochwood Smith, good, hard-working, ordinary kiwis who have experience in running productive businesses,”
Damn right, and we don’t need left wing “intelligentsia” and their suckholing media cronies telling us what the fuck we can and cannot say.
Stand up to these arseholes..!!!!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
The media are pathetic, what about real issues Mr TV man !!!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Redbaiter says:
I apologise Redbaiter that my behaviour at the Standard hasn’t been so obnoxious and offensive as to get me banned. I also apologise for being a civilised right wing voice that wouldn’t have been heard on that blog if I had attempted to behave like you do. There. Do you feel better now? Or are you going to rant about how right-wingers who don’t stab left-wingers in the throat are Maoist scum, who are also part of the great left-wing conspiracy to make you look unbalanced?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 pm
“These Asians and Polynesians come over here to work, and hardworking kiwi business people have to teach them how to wipe their arses – that’s not right…”
Straight-shootin’ Dr Smith speaks his mind. An admirable mind too, obviously.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Lockwood should have comeback with the correct context for his remarks – he could have taken the highground, raised important issues, and more importantly, looked like he was being strong and decisive rather than tendering a weak withdrawal. This would have either made it a media non-issue, or probably won some much needed respect (and associated votes?)…
Just my 2c…
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Oh dear what a yawn. Even the media are failing to get any traction on this.
The weather is getting warmer, people are sitting outside for lunch and blinking in the sunlight. Somehow Lockwood’s comments just don’t mean anything. Small hands you say? Oh? So what shall we have then? The chargrilled chicken or the salmon?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
“Straight-shootin’ Dr Smith speaks his mind.”
No “ratbuggerer” its called telling the truth, its usually required to solve problems.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
What stupid idiots both Lockjaw and Maurice are.
Vote:Both are remnants of the 80′s brigade who should have a greater awareness of what is on or off politically.
Williamson has a reputation, when Bill English effectively banished him in the early 2000′s. Has Maurice got an obssession with “tolls”.
Lockjaw looks like he has stepped from a Butlins Holiday camp with boy scout eager,beaver approach of a 30 year old. Granted, he did great work on the Field case last year.
Anyone aplogising for him, what has been said is offensive to many. End of story.
If Key gets in, Lockjaw shouldn’t be Minister of Immigration like Williamson should not be Transport minister.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
“Fact: We need people like Lochwood Smith, good, hard-working, ordinary kiwis who have experience in running productive businesses,”
So what to do with National’s Finance Minister then?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:44 pm
What problem did Dr Smith “solve” then?
Doesn’t seem to have accomplished much else apart from making an idiot of himself.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Fire him, show that National fires politicians caught making racially charged statements whilst Labour gives them the baubles of office. It will make good political capital and show Key to be firmly in charge of the National party.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
“Anyone aplogising for him, what has been said is offensive to many. End of story”
How “many” is this offensive to? , the many who are tired of this PC liberal crap coming from our wonderfully balanced media?
Vote:The only concern people should have is if minister displays openly racist beliefs, not cause they break some unwritten law of the PC brigade. Its people entertaining this garbage that feeds this hideous monsters growth, and I think “many” are sick and tired of it.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Neil “Anyone aplogising for him, what has been said is offensive to many. End of story.”
And there lies the problem. This word “offensive”. Being offended by what people say is the price you pay for living in a place where we are supposed to have free speech. I am offended all the time – in fact every time Clark or her minions come on TV. Tough shit to me. Likewise I don’t give a rat’s arse if anyone was offended by what Smith said.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
“So what to do with National’s Finance Minister then?”
Freudian slip – not really, but should’ve been spokesman
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:02 pm
“I apologise Redbaiter that my behaviour at the Standard hasn’t been so obnoxious and offensive as to get me banned. I also apologise for being a civilised right wing voice that wouldn’t have been heard on that blog if I had attempted to behave like you do. There. Do you feel better now?”
I wasn’t talking about the Standard. I was talking about Matthew “Bryan’s doing a good job” Hooten and Chris “Keep the Red Flag Flying” Trotter’s despicable soviet wankfest.
“Or are you going to rant about how right-wingers who don’t stab left-wingers in the throat are Maoist scum, who are also part of the great left-wing conspiracy to make you look unbalanced?”
I have to laff. Leftists revere (for example) a hate mongering mass murderer and psychopath like Che Guevara, who stated that one had to hate, and that he enjoyed the smell of blood after he had carried out his killings (or something like that). Leftists put his face on their clothing and praise him as a hero. Here’s Redbaiter advocating a stronger line against the thought police of the left, and dipshit tame “rightists” like you put me down as a hate driven social reject.
You carry on with your meek compliance Mr. Ellis. I consider it one’s duty to confront the cultural commissars of the left with my disdain and contempt, and I shall do that whenever I can, no matter how brainwashed surrender monkeys like you might feel about it.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
“What problem did Dr Smith “solve” then?
Doesn’t seem to have accomplished much else apart from making an idiot of himself.”
You see, this is the problem with the issues facing NZ.
Vote:We have serious social issues that need addressing, yet no one will in case it causes a stink.
Well here’s some news for ya, SHIT STINKS.
If we want the crap out of the house someone is going to have to find it, and get rid of it, and its going to make a stink.
This namby pamby prancing around, trying to figure out how to pick up a turd by the clean end has got to stop.
I applaud the Maori party in identifying the issues facing the Maori people and attempting to deal with it, I would trust them far more than either labour or the greens.
Identify what makes people stink and get rid of it for goodness sake!!!
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Redbaiter, I hope you feel very courageous hurling insults at me, and suggesting I am cowardly, while you hide behind the veil of anonymity, for no other reason that unlike you, I don’t use abuse and bullying as a debating tactic.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
I know The next time the MSM report something that we dont agree with lets all attack them and accuse them of holding those thoughts.
Same has they did with Lockie.
So when Fran or Guyon say So and so said such and such WE say So Guyon and Fran think the same as the people who told them
Cause thats what you bozos twats are saying regards Lockie.
Although you wont see that casue your eyes are painted on
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
He’s very bwave indeed.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Tim,
Full-name users reprazent!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
DPF, would you kindly tell me why if is acceptable to make factual generalisations regarding race relating to crime for example but homophobic to make any generalisations relating to sexual preference?
[DPF: It all depends on context. Saying most pedophiles are gay is as unhelpful as saying most violent criminals are Maori. But an acceptable context for each would be if it was part of a discussion on how to reduce offending rates. Using a generalisation to denigrate a group is a bad idea. ]
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Tim are you saying that you belive Lockwood is racist? cause if you are not, then why other than because of some left wing standard of “morality” are we even discussing this.
Vote:It reveals how cancerous this politically correct disease has become. Facts and figures should NEVER be viewed through a politically correct lense.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Mr. Ellis, you apparently just cannot stop yourself from framing the argument in leftist terminology. You are not being abused. You may be insulted or offended, but you have not been “abused”. Likewise, you are not being “bullied”. Bullying is a circumstance wherein the victim is unable to escape his tormentor. You choose to read my messages when you coppuld easily ignore them. You have reached for this as a means to discredit me only because your mind has been infected so badly with the disease of leftism and or PCism. When are you going to wake up to how the left are manipulating you??
Lastly, beaten on the logic front, as is so often the behaviour pattern of leftists, you attempt to shift ground to something you feel morally superior on- posting under your real name. This too is a matter of choice Mr. Ellis. Your choice. I am not going to modify my feelings or the expression of those feelings merely because you don’t understand that this is the blogosphere and not the letters pages of the NZ Herald. Times are changing Mr. Ellis. Join us or get out of the way.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
“He’s very bwave indeed.”
Oh look, here’s that other fatuous obsessive. Go away Lllewser. You’re a prime bore and a yellow back.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Chuck Bird, the race-crime stuff is backed up by stats. Not so much the other.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Few if any of the people who follow this blog are as dumb as gd alleges. He asserts we cannot distinguish the views of the media messengers from the views of those they report.
I think the complaints are nothing like this gd. They are the belief that generally the mainstream media have a leftist slant. This shows in selection of news and prominence, and in steam radio and television in subtle nuances in delivery of this information. In old-fashioned print it sometimes shows in headlines which go further left than the reports underneath.
Of course not all journalists are left wing. However, the mainstream media is now further left than it was 20 years ago, it seems to me. As has been said many times, this may be because of the selection of recruits is weighted towards those from university social sciences, like political studies. These subjects probably attract folk with a leftist bent. Once they dominate the media the chain becomes self-perpetuating.
Thank goodness for the Free Blogosphere!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I haven’t discredited you Redbaiter. Your ludicrous extremism discredits yourself.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Of course not all journalists are left wing. However, the mainstream media is now further left than it was 20 years ago, it seems to me. As has been said many times, this may be because of the selection of recruits is weighted towards those from university social sciences, like political studies. These subjects probably attract folk with a leftist bent. Once they dominate the media the chain becomes self-perpetuating.
Derned media gawt itself a bunch o’ BOOK-LERNERS!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
“Chuck Bird, the race-crime stuff is backed up by stats. Not so much the other.”
Bull crap, yet another “lets all ignore the elephant in the room”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
“Your ludicrous extremism discredits yourself.”
Thanks for that opinion. …and don’t worry, the leftists think you’re great.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Good one Russell.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What is a yellow back anyway?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
“Good one Russell.”
Haw haw. Is that feeble angle all you’ve got you pathetic obsessive small minded dipshit?? Lllllewser is clearly a much more appropriate adjustment of your handle than I thought.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Sproull says: Derned media gawt itself a bunch o’ BOOK-LERNERS!
Leftist graduates think people who are not left wing – graduates or not – are hicks who are prejudiced against learning and intellectuals. What arrogant rubbish Sproull spouts.
But there’s no doubt some social science subjects are flakier than others: like film studies, like feminist studies, like units on witchcraft.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Um… you might want to consult a real dictionary, not the Libz glossary.
I’ll do neither thanks, I won’t condone bullying.
And is all you have abuse & bullying? Yeah, I can be a bit of a shit & reveal your reaql name I guess. I got it from your campaign bio a few years ago.
Yeah, it’s pointless & maybe it’s all I have.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Ignore bedwetter. One of his far-right buddies (someone which he behaves sycophantically to on a regular basis here) told me that he’s a wimpy little coward in person. Kind of like the wizard behind the curtain in “the wizard of oz” – all tough and ego-maniacal when he doesn’t have to look you in the eye when venting his bile, but timid as a church mouse when you get him at the bar-table.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Is that right you stupid garden nome, what a jerk !
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
“I’ll do neither thanks, I won’t condone bullying.”
I wasn’t talking to you you obsessive, and I would never issue such an invitation to one I consider so irretrievably useless. When it came to turning back the tide of leftism/ PCism you’d be more worthless than tits on a bull.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Like most bullies.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Dad- don’t worry about Gnome, he’s got nothing other than his brain damage. Stick to the issue of PCism.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
On ZB an young island guy rang up saying that a large group of them were thinking of breaking from tradition to vote National as they has small businesses and concerned the way Labour was going. They have also been encouraged by National starting to engage more with the PI community and bring on MP’s like Sam. They are now questioning again how they will vote.
I think this is sad that Labour will use this to paint all conservatives as racist and stuck in the past.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Leftist graduates think people who are not left wing – graduates or not – are hicks who are prejudiced against learning and intellectuals. What arrogant rubbish Sproull spouts.
Jack5, you clearly stated that people who study politics – which is to say, spend a lot of time thinking about it, writing about it, discussing it and critiquing it as a full-time occupation – tend to be left-wing.
I thought it was a bit harsh for you to imply that people who don’t spend much time thinking about politics tend to be simplistic right-wingers, but who am I to disparage your opinon?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
That’s right Dad. He is a jerk. How about we have a beer next time i’m in the garden city? Or are you another one of those cowards who can only talk tough on-line, but acts like a bitch in person?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I wonder if Smith will get more approval for these comments than offence he causes. I have just been listening to talk back radio and the majority of e-mails etc have been supportive of him. I think a lot of people out there are sick of the PC nonsense that prevents us from telling the truth at the risk of being dubbed “racist”.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
““lets all ignore the elephant in the room””
Pretty easy when there’s no stats to look at.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Yes these pc wimps have fucked this country with the insidious nanny state socialist disease. Look at the cot cases like nome getting indoctrinated in our universities.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
“I think a lot of people out there are sick of the PC nonsense that prevents us from telling the truth at the risk of being dubbed “racist”.”
Damn right. There are more votes in sticking to your guns than apologizing.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Once Gnome graduates and gets a job what is the likelihood he moves to the dark right wing side?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
“Look at the cot cases like nome getting indoctrinated in our universities.”
They only succeed with the really dumb ones.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I don’t care Russell, I’ll come here & say what I please (within the bounds of Mr Farrar’s tolerance), whatever threats you and your cowardly ilk might make Redbaiter.
Gee, where have I heard that before?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
So you are a bitch Dad. What a surprise.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Didn’t finsh your degree then?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
When you guys all inevitably get together to make sweet love to each other, who’s top and who’s bottom?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Enough personal abuse on this thread. Demerits looming.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Grow up Llew and water the garden nome, must go job appointment with stupid judge.
Edit – no offense to anybody roger that? I fucken hate the demerit board.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Lockwood is probably right in what he said if he was faithfully articulating the views/concerns expressed by local employers.
Lockwood was wrong in saying it in the heat of any election campaign.
Much like Ms King saying last night that National had it wrong in promiosing more police for South Auckland.
Or Shane Jones being rolled by HC over the showers.
I have no doubt that John Key will be pretty ruthless in ensuring regeneration is an ongoing process within National. I think that some Ministers will probably serve no more than two years before making way for new talent prior to the 2011 election. Previous posters have identified some probable names.
Contrast that with Labour where they hang on kicking and screaming until bought off by numerous quasi government appointments or, in the case of George Hawkins and others, saying ‘up yours’ to HC and bugga the consequences.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
“Gee, where have I heard that before?”
You heard it yesterday when you were trying to get me to cease “abusing” you under threat of revealing what you in your abject ignorance perceive to be my “real identity”. Go away you obsessive yellow backed bore. Take your one issue mentally disturbed shit somewhere else. Posters are trying to discuss Lockwood Smith’s statement. I dare say they don’t need the thread clogged up with never ending off topic drivel from navel gazing small minded obsessives like you.
err, posted in ignorance of above warning…
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Lockwood was wrong in saying it in the heat of any election campaign.
So it’s a tactical mistake to say something during an election which could be construed as racist by silly people.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Dear Ryan Sproull:
We’re getting off track here, when the debate should be about what Lockwood Smith did or didn’t say and his right to say it, and perhaps migrant workers and RSE schemes.
I didn’t mean to imply that people who ” spend a lot of time thinking about it, writing about it, discussing it and critiquing it as a full-time occupation – tend to be left-wing.”
I think that those who come out of political science studies left wing, usually began these studies left wing. However, I unashamedly think that the more intellectually robust students gravitate towards subjects including philosophy, mathematics, physical sciences, languages-literature (including English), and to vocational subjects like computer science, engineering, and medicine.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Who’d have thought, a thread about Lockwood Smith & all the abuse is traded between the thread posters.
Did you know that a “yellow back” is a cheap tawdry novel? It seems I am one also.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Bingo – where are the National whips anyway?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
I think that those who come out of political science studies left wing, usually began these studies left wing. However, I unashamedly think that the more intellectually robust students gravitate towards subjects including philosophy, mathematics, physical sciences, languages-literature (including English), and to vocational subjects like computer science, engineering, and medicine.
Well, there are plenty of ways of interpret the fact that many politics graduates are left-wing – from my “they became left-wing from learning about how the world works” to your “they started studying politics because they were left-wing to start with”.
But as a philosophy graduate, I can hardly disagree with your second sentence.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:56 pm
“But as a philosophy graduate”
So what, back to the topic, can you prune vines in a vineyard?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Ahem… can’t you comprehend?
Also, since you’re accusing me of cowardice, the euphemism you seek is probably “yellow-bellied”.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Are you suggesting that philosophy students have small hands? [/faux outrage]
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
DPF you’re not making much sense here when you say ” Racial generalisations are not taboo, but the mistake is to assume generalisations apply to all members of that race, and/or to use a generalisation where it is not necessary. “, because that’s exactly what Smith *didn’t* do.
> “There are SOME skills in the vineyard that SOME people are PERHAPS better at,” Dr Smith was reported saying in the >Marlborough Express newspaper.
>“For example SOME of the pruning…SOME of the Asian workers have been more productive
He couldn’t look *less* like applying to all members if he tried. Beware Political Correctness. It turns eveyone it touches into an irrational fool.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
So what, back to the topic, can you prune vines in a vineyard?
I’m afraid my hands are large, for a philosophy graduate. But some philosophy graduates have small hands, good for reaching between books in the library to extract very slim copies of Kant’s Prolegomena.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Ryan Sproull, is there not an overwhelming preponderance at Universities of liberal-Left professors and course texts? What chance is there of Uni students being exposed to “conservative” arguments? Most young Uni graduates who become “conservatives” do so through their OWN reading independently and in defiance of what they are taught at Uni (sorry, indoctrinated in at Uni).
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thanks to Philb for re-posting my comments from the general thread.
I stand by them. Smith said nothing that should have made him feel the need to apologise.
His apology shows a lack of character. He has allowed himself to be beaten up by a weak and pathetic media. When they called him on it he should have just asked how they were getting on with receiving answers from Shane Jones, or answers from Labour about their secret agenda. He wimped out.
His comments were in a pretty clear context……in any country other than here, or the US.
” some of the pruning…some of the Asian workers have been more productive…because their hands are smaller.”
WTF is wrong with that?
Storm. Teacup.
Get off your high horses.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
None taken. The “back to the topic” comment was gold & good luck with the judge.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I’d guess that the bit about teaching them to use toilets & showers was more problematic, but not a sacking offence.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
One or two comments above that have strayed a little from the thread, make me think of THIS recent outstanding essay from Melanie Phillips:
“The Culture War For The White House”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/melaniephillips/2447021/the-culture-war-for-the-white-house.thtml
EXCERPTS:
“……It seems to me that the reason Sarah Palin has sparked such an unprecedented campaign of lies, smears, abuse and dangerously unhinged hatred (if you think that’s an exaggeration, just look at the readers’ posts on this very site) is because, as I wrote in the Mail on Monday, she stands against the tide of secular nihilism in the culture wars. Oliver Kamm and I dare say, Hitchens (although I have not discussed this with him), may be shoulder to shoulder with me on foreign policy but they stand on the other side from me in the culture wars – what I see as nihilism, I suspect they view as progressive — and it is no coincidence that they both stand also for militant (or in Oliver’s case, rather less militant) atheism which they assume (falsely, in my view) is synonymous with rationality. Palin’s evangelical Christianity, and the moral and social positions that flow from that faith, would therefore strike them as beyond appalling. That’s why Oliver sees her as embodying
anti-intellectualism, insularity, social intolerance and anti-rationalism.
For me, by contrast, although the nature of her faith and the churches with which she has been associated certainly make me uneasy, they do not alarm me. That’s because I regard evangelicals as allies in the fight to defend authentic liberal, and thus moral, values which I believe are rooted in Judeo-Christian thinking. I’m sure that, had I been around during the Victorian era, I would not have cared either for the evangelicals then trying to convert everyone to Christianity – but the fact remains that it was through their faith that they campaigned against slavery and for just about every social reform that we now think of as enlightened and progressive. For me, ‘anti-intellectualism, insularity, social intolerance and anti-rationalism’ have indeed been unleashed upon our society – not by Christian evangelicals but by the forces of secular fundamentalism and bigotry through such phenomena as scientism, political correctness and post-modernism.
I don’t much care whether Palin believes in a hundred ridiculous things before breakfast — because what she stands for is a defence of bedrock western moral values against the nihilistic onslaught…..”
“…….The moral relativists — most viciously embedded on the left but represented in conservative circles too under the ambiguous banner of libertarianism which prevents such circles from grasping the threat being posed to real liberty — understand very well indeed that, as the first culture warrior from the opposing camp to stand on the threshold of power, Palin poses a threat to the established amoral order which must be resisted with all the ferocity they can summon. That is why she has been the target of this astonishing campaign of lies and smears — most of which have been uncritically accepted by large numbers of people who play no role in the culture wars at all, but believe that if the media say something is so with one voice, then it must indeed be so.
I do not by any means defend or support everything Palin stands for or has ever done. But I do know a witch-hunt when I see one – and when people scream that legitimate and indeed urgent questions about Obama’s extensive radical profile are ‘deranged’ and ‘racist’ smears, while they themselves describe Palin herself as ‘a cancer’ and even spread the calumny that she is not the mother of her own son, you can be sure that profoundly irrational forces are at work.
It is a matter of considerable regret to me that someone like Oliver, whose acumen I much respect and who would never descend to such levels, cannot see this and the fact that Obama, despite his professed Christianity, is the candidate of this cultural Marxist onslaught against western values……”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
We can debate the correctness (political or factual, take your pick) of Smith’s remarks all we like. But the unarguable fact is that they’ve created a s**tstorm for National when it least needs it. Thus getstaffed nails it perfectly when he says:
Exactly. If, after being in politics so long that there’s probably a fossil or two in all that hair he hasn’t got the nous to either not make potentially catastrophic remarks or to preface them with “I’m told by employers that…” (thus at least absolving himself of personal responsibility for the opinion) then he’s woefully politically inept.
It’s not like National is short of talent on the lower echelons (assuming a reasonable intake of fresh blood at this election) so jettisoning the ballast – preferably strapped to the anchor – can only be for the good.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Gotta agree Rex.
Its time for a new front bench anyway, Maurice, Lockwood, and co should be quietly moved on.
There is some exciting new blood coming through the ranks, they need to get some of these people out in front and make use of the likes of Finlayson a hell of a lot more.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Rogernome, by revealing that redbaiter is more mild manored in real life only adds credibility to his argument as far as I am concerned.
Vote:I would have thought that if he was some gun slinging survivalist red neck with massive agression problems, that would have served your left wing agenda a little better, but thanks for the insight, I now have alot more respect for redbaiter as a result.
What you don’t understand rogernome, is many people find the blogoshere an excellent outlet for the frustration that a govt obsessed with controling its citizens generates. It is the only place currently free from interferance from nanny state and a two faced left wing media, probably why the EU would like to regulate it in Europe and I am sure Clark has plans for that here as well.
So thanks nome for making a link between a politically correct govt and agression in its citizens, now that we know the cause of rising violence we can make the necessary changes in a few weeks time.
cheers.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Redbaiter, You’ll love THIS:
From “Suggestions For The Future” by Fjordman:
“…..Milton Friedman has stated that “only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable.” Friedman believes that during a crisis, we only have a brief window of opportunity before society slips back into the “tyranny of the status quo,” and that we need to use this opportunity or lose it.
This is actually sound advice and in my view the strategy Western survivalists should follow. When I first started writing as Fjordman I focused on how to “fix the system.” I’ve gradually come to the conclusion that the system cannot be fixed. Not only does it have too many enemies; it also contains too many internal contradictions. If we define the “system” as mass immigration from alien cultures, Globalism, Multiculturalism and suppression of free speech in the name of “tolerance,” then this is going to collapse. It’s inevitable.
The goal of European and Western survivalists — and that’s what we are, it is our very survival that is at stake — should not be to “fix the system,” but to be mentally and physically prepared for its collapse, and to develop coherent answers to what went wrong and prepare to implement the necessary remedies when the time comes. We need to seize the window of opportunity, and in order to do so, we need to define clearly what we want to achieve. What went wrong with our civilization, and how can we survive and hopefully regenerate, despite being an increasingly vulnerable minority in an often hostile world?
I have suggested that we never won the Cold War as decisively as we should have done. The enemy has been regrouping and now largely controls our media and educational institutions less than a generation after the fall of the Berlin Wall. We did not have public trials against the supporters of Marxism just as we did against Nazism. This was a serious mistake which we should not repeat again. If or when the European Union collapses and Multiculturalism is defeated, we need to stage public trials against the creators of Eurabia and denounce the lies continuously told by our media and academia. Their ideology needs to be exposed as evil.
The political elites implement the agendas of our enemies and ignore the interests of their own people. They are collaborators and should be treated accordingly. The problem is that they currently feel quite comfortable and secure. They fear the reactions of Muslims, but despise their own people. They view us as sheep, existing only to provide them with champagne and nice cars and to be guinea pigs in their grandiose social experiments. Change will only come when they fear us, and the consequences of their own betrayal, more than they fear Muslims.
People of European origins can gain a future by reclaiming our past, and end the hostility to our civilization and heritage which is too often taught in our education system today. We need to reject those who demonize us simply because we desire self-determination. In order to achieve this, we need to regain control over our national borders and legislation, and we need to reclaim control over the media. Those who control the media, control society.
It is easy to blame others, but we have to accept responsibility for our situation. Yes, we have indeed been betrayed by our leaders, but that’s still only part of the problem. People tend to get the governments they deserve. Maybe we get weak leaders because we are weak, or because they can exploit weaknesses in our mentality to get us where they want to; above all anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism, our excessive desire for consensus and suppression of dissent, the anti-individualistic legacy from Socialism and the passivity bred by welfare state bureaucracy…..”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
How is this policy from the apartheid party any less racist?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4736075a28435.html
Will we see landing strip Mold breathlessly chase Key down the street asking his opinion about this?….like fuck we will.
The more this campaign goes on the more I am starting to hate the media almost as much as I have the pinko’s.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
whenever I see the statement “backed up by stats”, I know to be skeptical.
If you look at the correlation between those who breathe or not and those who commit crimes or not, and you find that 100% of those who commit crime also breathe.
Lame arsed people who don’t understand stats or logic (such as most psychologists, policy analysists or politicians) would then draw the conclusion that breathing is a causing factor in crime, and that therefore anyone who breathes should be locked up.
As a society we’ve moved away from logic and true causality, and taken up statistics as the holy grail. It’s a crock.
Lies, damn lies and statistics – never a truer phrase spoken.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Ryan Sproull, is there not an overwhelming preponderance at Universities of liberal-Left professors and course texts?
I’d say so, yes. There’s also an overwhelming preponderance of people who can read. One explanation for the preponderance of liberal professors is conspiracy or nepotism. Another is that intelligence and education incline people towards left-wing social and economic positions.
What chance is there of Uni students being exposed to “conservative” arguments?
You mean like capitalist economics? I doubt there’s a university in New Zealand where you can get a degree in economics that is not exclusively within a capitalist framework.
If you mean right-wing politics, you’d be hard-pressed to do a politics degree at Auckland Uni and avoid doing some papers under Stephen Hoadley, who’s a massively pro-America Christian realist.
Most young Uni graduates who become “conservatives” do so through their OWN reading independently and in defiance of what they are taught at Uni (sorry, indoctrinated in at Uni).
Yes, the old “I’m so right that hardly anyone agrees with me” argument.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I think Rex is right. PC issues aside (and I agree there are PC issues here) this is STRATEGICALLY stupid and like Maurice’s ongoing brainless outbursts are the last thing National needs. Do either of these buffoons want to win the election or not?
They are both dead wood, and it’s time to replace them.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
p.s.
I don’t mind if someone is offended by a statement, they should raise that themselves.
But for someone to raise being offended on behalf of others is in itself offensive to me. For some whitey with a beard to claim that all asians were offended by lockwood smith’s comments I find offensive, and I think many asians would also find someone else deeming them to be offended to be offensive in itself.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
As an aside, what kind of person struggles with parking their arse on the shitter and then pulling the handle/pushing the button when done?
Really? Did they think they were individual hair washers? I’m stunned that someone can look at a large piece of porcelain with a roll of paper beside it, in it’s own private locking cubicle and think (in whatever lingo).
“Hmm, what is this strange object I see before me? Where can I possibly take a shit? I’m busting.”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
“They are both dead wood, and it’s time to replace them”
Absolutely – forget the PC debate. This is about some fundamental weakness in both thought and discipline in National’s supposed front rank. Bring on new talent to support JK
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:36 pm
This would be the “hard working and diligent MP” who as Minister of Education in the previous National Government capitulated to the education mandarins and introduced the NCEA and NZQA.
He should have ended his political career at that point, right there and then, so if this is what it takes, then Goodbye Blockwood. A generation of NZ children have you to blame.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Is this some hypothetical whitey with a beard? From reading DPF’s original post at the top, I was of the opinion that it was Pacific Islanders likely to be offended by the remarks, if anyone.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
adc, my point is that there are *no* stats.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I have just listened to Lockwood’s comments
THIS IS A NOTHING STORY
Vote:Hyped up by the media eager to pounce on anything to ensure a Labour win.
Honestly listen to the clip at the Herald – there was nothing racist in anything he said at all!
Talk about overblown.
Meanwhile what happened to the real story regarding Jones granting citizenship to someone who has an arrest
warrant out for them.
Key should sack Lockwood when Clark decides to sack Winston
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
My last comment as we’re now miles off topic …
Ryan Sproull writes: One explanation for the preponderance of liberal professors is conspiracy or nepotism. Another is that intelligence and education incline people towards left-wing social and economic positions.
There are many other explanations. Such as people of a leftist bent are attracted more than others by the security of the job with tenure etc. As leftists they probably also have higher regard for academics than for people of equal intellectual talent who work outside universities and similar institutions. As leftists they may take comfort from their position above students, who once outside the university mainly challenge such authority. There are other possible reasons, but let’s get back to Lockwood Smith.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Ryan….
Reminds me of Paul Holmes’ interview with Genetic Fitzsimons.
When asked if she’s ever had a real job, she retorted she’d been a teacher, and a lecturer.
Now, whilst those are indeed jobs, they are not paid employment by private enterprise. As a teacher you are an employee of the state (except if you work for a private school, and surprise surprise, most of them are right-leaning). My sister and her husband are teachers, so I have a lot of respect for teachers, but working for the state does NOT subject you to
a) risk of losing your job because the company you work for goes under
b) having to face the owner of the company, and see how hard they work.
Working for the state or any other large anonymous entity shields people from the human face of what it is to be an employer. Those who see that human face, who realise their employers may work a lot harder than they do, and maybe even earn a lot less, may find themselves to be less critical of capitalism.
At university, at least when I was there, the ones who were academics from birth, e.g. never had a job in private enterprise were left-wing, and those that came from private enterprise weren’t. So what conclusions to draw?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
jack5 As one who has retained various links with academia during a working life in business I have been fortunate to observe both the academics and the students and make some observations.
The old story about if your not a socialist at 20 etc is very true but it extends on in age for those who remain in the cloisters.
As regards journalists I have been on a number of ocassions subject to their thin lipped look down their noses as if Ive just farted in their presence for being one of the devil worshiping capitalist pigs.
Generally I find they have a very shallow understanding of business and its connection with the rest of society and that includes many of the so called business journos.
That they are unable to express a neutral and nonpartisan views says much for their lack of professionalisim
That they attempt to dress up their partisan views and con the majority says much for that majorities intelligence
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Dr Lockwood Smith who used to lecture at Massey University?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Yet academia hates the MSM. Three words for ya: Political Economy Theory. If the likes o’ Duncan Garner an’ John Campbell are products of a left-wing academic machine, then their makers are very disappointed with them indeed.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:44 pm
llew – yes hypothetical, as referred in other posts today.
My point is that if PIs are offended, that’s fine, they have every right to be, and can raise it.
But no-one else has the right to raise it on their behalf. And no-one has the right to tell me I should be offended by something or not. I’ll tell them to get lost, as I find those people offensive.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Look into the reality of the hoticulture industry and the nature of the foreign labour and you realise there are serious issues that need addressing.
Vote:I was told of an incident where a police car turned up on a road near a vineyard in Marlborough and about 30 foreign workers took off through a field, children of the corn style cause they thought they were in trouble. There is some seriously dodgy stuff going on and labour won’t touch it with a barge poll.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
maybe “toad” was right.. maybe national will pick up some NZ First votes. cool
this might not be a bad thing at all.. while the elitist media overreact to this crap, the normal people just get reminded what a loony PC country this has become!
oh thats right “helen” is mainstream NZ hahaha
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
what does ‘elitist’ even mean any more?!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
gd @ 3:40pm – very true.
I know a lot of journos…. married to one even…
most have no clue about business whatsoever, which means they miss the point on many many many stories… doesn’t stop them from giving them the hard-sell to us though
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Also IMHO we may be reaching the tipping point as regards PC and cultural sensitivity
There comes a time when the citizens will say Enough is enough and refuse to be silenced for speaking up and speakinh out
They will turn on the PC brigade abd tell them to FOXTROT OSCAR.
The PC brigade will be stunned having always had the upper hand and been able to swat away those who would debate with them by dismissing them as uninformed ignorants
Cant wait for the day to arrive and to see the stunned mullet looks of the PC faces
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
ok.. quick poll conducted by Dime.
Ive spoken to 10 national voters – people from work and some friends and 2 clients…
their take on lockwood – ah crap, stop trying to lose the election….
there were no “oh thats racist, ill change my vote”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Stephen: “what does ‘elitist’ even mean any more?!”
Fuck elitist, I don’t think that any of the mentals in here can even define PC, they just bandy words around coz they’ve heard them somewhere and don’t like the sound of ‘em.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
ADC,
a) risk of losing your job because the company you work for goes under
People at TVNZ face lay-offs. Company doesn’t have to go under for there to be insecurity.
b) having to face the owner of the company, and see how hard they work.
I spent three years working at ihug when it was run by the Wood brothers.
’nuff said.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Um… you’ll swat them away too & that’ll teach them? Dismiss them as informed or what? I mean, what’s the difference?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 pm
From “Good People Have Become A Defeated Class In Blair’s Britain”
By Theodore Dalrymple
“…..Anyone who has had dealings with the British public service in the last ten or fifteen years will know that the principle qualities required for advancement within it are unceasing sanctimony, brazenness, a craven dedication to orders from on high combined with an ability to justify a complete change of direction at a moment’s notice, and a capacity for bullying those lower down the feeding chain, or (to change the metaphor slightly) those jostling for a place at the trough. A rigid self-control is required to suppress any independence of mind or a tendency to consider the ethics of orders to be implemented. A good public servant must now, as never before, be able to present cancelled operations as an inestimable benefit to the patients concerned, while at the same time spotting niches for a little commercial activity of his own, whether it be by using the rules of employment to his own financial benefit or setting up a consultancy to advise his former employers.
I recently met a public servant who had risen up the ranks and had about him a triumphalist air, as of a successful revolutionary. He had arrived in bureaucratic heaven. He travelled to London on the train first class every week (a ticket costs the equivalent of an annual working class holiday in the sun), and attended sumptuous functions there attended by others such as himself, under the impression that by so doing he was working. Had he been a little boy recounting a visit to Father Christmas in a department store, it would have been disarming: as it was, I found it profoundly alarming.
Here was the voice of militant mediocrity, who expressed himself even in private in the language of Health Service meetings, believing that his large salary and high living at public expense were all for the good of those who paid for them. Just as the countries of Eastern Europe once had their little Stalins, so every department of every branch of the British public service has its little Blairs.
Such a development could not have taken place overnight. My wife, who is French, was attracted to the culture of this country because, as late as 1979 or 1980, the people, including administrators in hospitals, were obviously upright, whatever else their failings might have been. A quarter of a century later, all that has changed; deviousness, ruthlessness, an eye fixed on the main chance, sanctimony in the midst of obvious wrongdoing, toadying and bullying have become the ruling characteristics of the British people, or at least those of them who are in charge of something. The old virtues – stoicism, honesty, fortitude, irony, good humour and so forth – can still be found, but only in people who are of no importance, at least in the public administration. If I may put it very strongly, good people are like a defeated class in this country.
How has this all happened? I think that the spread of tertiary education has had quite a lot to do with it. First, it created a very large class of people who had to be found white collar jobs, since there is nothing more dangerous for a society’s stability than a large number of unemployed people who consider themselves to be intellectuals. The obvious way to absorb such people was the expansion of the public service.
Second, the expansion of tertiary education resulted in the over-intellectualisation of society. Unfortunately, the average or median level of intellectual activity was very poor, but it meant that the concept of virtue in society changed. Henceforth, virtue was not the exercise of discipline, self-control or benevolence for the sake of others, but the expression of the right opinions of the moment. This could not have been better illustrated than in the case of the Conservative front-bencher, a former colonel who was very much liked and respected by his black soldiers, several of whom he promoted, and who defended him vigorously, who said something marginally unacceptable (its truth or untruth was not important), and had to be sacked as a consequence. Sticks and stones may not break my bones, but words will always hurt me.
When words become the test of virtue, they also become the masks of vice. That is why sanctimony and ruthless self-interest are such powerful allies…..”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
llew
Sigh!!! Ive lost count of the time when I and others have had an innocent remark thats been turned into WW3 by one of the PC brigade who seek every opportunity to take offence when none is clearly intended.
The PC brigade take a delight in finding fault when none exists. They have to stick up for every cause no matter what.
Surprise surprise Ive then seen the same people make a remark that is grossly insensitive to most and get all huffy when pulled up about it
I call it the ONE WAY STREET
The PC brigade want to dish it out but dont take it.
Its their way or the highway no other way.
Want an example Comrade Jois de Bres who I had the delight of taking to the Human Rights Commission ( thats right the outfit he works for) over a remark he made that the white settlers in NZ where no better than the Taleban
He lost I won Here was a prime example of the PC brigade who seeks out any slight and make a capital offence but them makes the most proposterous outlandish statement about my forefathers and gets all upset when I object.
Jois de Bres a paid up member of the PC Brigade.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I listened to the actual audio clips that Stuff have online of Lockwood Smith and I for the life of me cannot see what the fuss is all about. People really do need to hear the extended comments Smith made.
Must be a slow news day when comments like those cause a storm.
Talk about too man people being too PC.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pm
gd – to some extent I agree (I wonder what the response would have been if Lockwood had said asians were CRAP at fruit picking because their hands were smaller), I’m just wondering why you want to respond to those “who dismiss you” by dismissing them in a similar manner.
yeah, yeah, it’s rhetoric I know, but all the same.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:47 pm
GD are you Murray McCully?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:50 pm
davidc If I told you who I was I would have to shoot you
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:52 pm
coz Murray McCully took JdB to the HRC over that issue – he didn’t win either.
Ooooh and Murray would totally use the moniker GD – short for God.
Fuck I’m Sherlock Holmes.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:53 pm
llew If Lockie had said that the PC brigade would have been on him in a trice accusing him of suggesting Asians are inferior to PIs by not being able to pick the same amount in a given time.
As I said IMHO the PC brigade will always find fault and something wrong
their just misery looking for company
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:56 pm
very short for god.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Is there going to be shooting?
I didn’t bring my gun.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
If I was to say that pasty wimpy white people can’t sing like THIS, does that make me a racist?
Vote:
October 22nd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
“I didn’t bring my gun.”
Feds took me guns away so I must attend the gun fight with a water pistol and a secret Bat weapon. Works a treat on the judges. Guns don’t kill – people do!
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
It’s one thing to be right, but it’s another thing to convince the public you are right. In the case of Lockwood – why did he bother even mentioning it?
In fact I think what he said was -”Our polynesian brothers will still be able to shower under National “
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Actually, the idea that Asian workers are particularly dexterous is not that far fetched, just as Polynesian sportspeople have particular advantages:
“The excavation of an abundance of precise tools in Asia, including needles for sewing clothes to survive cold winters, has led scientists to speculate that Asians were “programmed” over time to be more dexterous. Studies indicate that East Asians do have the quickest reaction time, which some have speculated may play a role in Asian domination of Ping-Pong.”
http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/straw_man_of_race.htm
“Polynesians, especially the Samoans, are amongst the world’s most mesomorphic (muscular) body types. A number of studies have shown that muscle bulk and the degree of muscularity, especially in thigh and buttock, are important predicators of success in rugby players, whereas the opposite applies in such sports as distance running. This genetic admixture helps in part explain why athletes from this region are large, agile and fast.”
http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/KC_Star_Dominican.htm
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 6:40 pm
DPF “but the mistake is to assume generalisations apply to all members of that race”/sex?
if Lockwood is a racist, then surely Clark is sexist;
“You look at a comment about the size of hands, you think well women’s hands are generally smaller than men’s. Is he going to say it should be women picking the fruit not men. It’s just daft. I don’t think he could have engaged brain before mouth,” Clark says.”
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Watched TV news. Can’t fault what Lockwood said. Toooo much Political Correctness as well as a slow news day. Maori Party want immigrants to learn about the Treaty. They also want it to be compulsory. Surely that’s racist?
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
He’s not racist, he just thinks the horticulture industry is crying out for smaller hands. Which makes him ill-informed.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Let’s get real: This is a media opportunity to create a beat-up on a National MP using a bit of hand-wringing PC correctness bias. Smith should have known better, but that doesn’t excuse the media from blowing it up.
Some credit to Garner though, he did have a crack a Clarks hypocrisy when she shrugged off comments made by Glenn in a social setting, while being happy to lambast National for comments secretly taped in a social setting.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
watto dear gents of kiwiblog!
by per-using the foregoing discussion it does seem evident that the oft-used term “politically correct” has more to do with the correctness of ones manners than with the correctness of ones politics. The remarks spoken by the honourable gentleman lockwood smith may or may not have been politically incorrect but they are certainly an example of “bad manners”.
those who choose to interpret such trifles as “political correctness gone mad” betray their utter boorishness, not to mention their inability to understand the personal responsibilities that come with living in a mutually respectful multi-cultural society.
only the most cowardly of individuals choose to blame their own lack of social graces on the current political situation by invoking such a vague and meaningless concept as “political correctness”.
shame on you sirs, shame on you.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 pm
National should give Lockwood the boot NOW
Vote:He’s a total liability
Did anyone see his speedos poster? Gross
He probably prefers Asians small hands ‘cos they make his cock look bigger!
I’m all for Gays in public office but this guy’s a creepy closet
And the face lift makes him look like a mummy
Do you think him & Tolley went to the same surgeon?
October 22nd, 2008 at 8:16 pm
For goodness sake. Lockwood is only stating the facts supplied to him by the people at the coal face. And anyway why should we be importing these PI’s from their stone age existence when we have plenty of unemployed in this country who could be MADE to do the work? Oops sorry thats just not PC is it, to force somebody to work for the dole. Though it’s ok to force us, that do work and pay tax, to use eco light bulbs and cut down the size of our hot water cylinders, and not smack our children etc etc etc.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Sorry I meant Political Correctness in the cultural marxism sense.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Lockwood Smith should be cut some slack. No one is going to sack him 17 days before the election.
This issue is storm in a tea cup stuff.
Vote:October 22nd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Lockwood may have been very subtly advocating the use of child labour with his reference to the need for pruners with small hands. Not a bad idea, if that was his intention. There are doubtless hundreds of children of DPB recipients and thousands of permanent truants who would benefit from a short sharp spell on a pruning gang. Most of them could probably use a toilet too.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 am
All the more reason to introduce Work for the Dole…problem solved as there’d be no need to bring immigrants in for this kind of work…sure there’s still the issue of toilet training, but given time and the occassional sharp crack with a thin stick around the arse, I’m sure that they’ll learn to adjust.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 3:19 am
I think taxpayers should get a return on Bludging for Families. The children of recipients should be made available for chimney cleaning. It’s educations for the kiddies and hard working, decent, ordinary taxpayers of New Zealand get their chimneys cleaned.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 7:38 am
helen must be rubbing her hands with glee. Lockwood has saved her the trouble of having to throw up a smoke screen to divert the dim witted publics attention away from the real issues facing NZ, like the fact they have tried to bankrupt the country and that they in fact plan more PC crap and a clamp down on kiwis rights to free speech etc
I would have hoped kiwis were smart enough not to be distracted by these side shows, but I doubt it which is why more and more are coming over here.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 7:48 am
Flippertyflop I just sooooo agree with your comments.Makes one want to go around being as un PC as possible.Hope this whole stupidity passes over quickly.Whatever happened to Winston?
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 8:19 am
Now that the vinyard labour problem was been solved in theory with the use of bludgers, asians and children (what about prisoners?) it could be worth a very brief moment to think about the cause of the problem. Why has the wine industry continually expanded its plantings in Marlborough without developing a reliable source of seasonal labour? What type of inept capitalist expands their business without securing more workers to exploit? It seems like a big own goal to me, and whining to the gummint and Lockwood just looks like a grovel for a handout in the best traditions of corporate socialism. Should they succeed to an even greater degree than the current RSE scheme I’m sure it will be glasses of reserve chardonnay all round…
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 8:27 am
Joe Dzug – how about the long term unemployed in Marlborough be retrained as vineyard hands? Too much to ask in order to support the export led recovery NZ needs? Or perhaps we can ask you since your BA will be adding fuck all value to the real economy mate.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 am
Unemployment in marlborough is really really really low – like 2% I think. Could be one or two long-termers I guess…
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 10:21 am
the fucker should have been sacked for introducing the worst student loan scheme in the world.
lockwood smith – the true face of national.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
“helen must be rubbing her hands with glee. Lockwood has saved her the trouble of having to throw up a smoke screen to divert the dim witted publics attention away from the real issues facing NZ”
Its Klark’s media plants who are under instruction to take full advantage of any opportunity to smear National who are to blame. These scum are traitors to the profession of journalism and a threat to democracy. Its not Lockwood, or the Nats who should be criticised. The villains here are Labour’s left wing media scum.
Vote:October 23rd, 2008 at 10:36 am
The left wing media taint this country with a bias stench!
Vote:October 24th, 2008 at 4:08 am
I agree that the left wing media that taints New Zealand is stupid. Luckily they will soon be eating a shit sandwich of their own making when the results come in on 8 November.
Vote: