The secret mini-Budget
October 15th, 2008 at 8:58 am by David FarrarThe Herald starts to ask the obvious questions about Labour’s planned mini-Bduget for December – how much will it cost?
Labour will not reveal how much more taxpayers money they will spend. Labour won’t reveal how much more debt they will incur. And Labour won’t reveal how much they will increase taxes by to pay for it.
You could understand an Opposition newly elected to Office doing a mini-Budget once it finds out how bad the books are. But Labour is in Government – it has daily updates from Treasury and the Reserve Bank if necessary.
Labour had previously accused National of three things
- A secret agenda
- Uncosted policies
- Increasing debt (Clark said it was “mind-boggling stupid” to do so)
We now know that it is in fact Labour doing all these things. They are refusing to give details of some of their spending plans or tax increases (or rule them out), saying we will tell you after the election.
They are making promises (such as superannuation) that have not been costed (the media are having to do it for them).
They are announcing spending bribes everywhere, despite a projected decade of deficits. EIther debt will skyrocket or they will have to put tax rates up. They are incapable of trimming existing Government spending.
Related posts:
- Sensible guarantee scheme but what is the secret agenda?
- Bernard Hickey on the desperate and dangerous budget
- Dom Post on Budget
- Labour on budget
October 15th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Cutting tax cuts is the secret agenda.
Labour are intent on destroying the country. Even David Lange managed to avoid an IMF bailout thanks to Roger Douglas. Hels and Cullen are doing everything possible to go down in history for all the wrong reasons.
Labour can not be allowed a fourth term.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Its about trust.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:21 am
The Labour party’s economic policy consists of the following:Tax and spend, Tax and spend, Tax and spend ,deny. There you have it, a 3 year economic plan.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:21 am
The wheels are well and truly coming off Labour’s campaign. But JK needs to keep the momentum going and really start pushing the secret mini-budget issue. If enough doubt can be raised in the publics mind about their tax cuts and other issues, then Labour’s entire campaign theme of “trust us because National has a secret agenda” goes out the door.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Labour has also made this election about trust. They are brilliant. Pick all their weakest points and campaign on them as strengths. It’s breathtaking in its audacity.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I read Dr Michael Bassett ‘s book on the Lange years over the weekend. I generally try to avoid books that deal with recent NZ history but made an exception in this case.
Vote:In it neither Ms Clark or Dr Cullen are portrayed in a particularly good light as they were in the background trying to disrupt the reforms that Roger Douglas was trying to bring into effect.
They are trying the same antics here again.
October 15th, 2008 at 9:24 am
“flip”
“flop”
Did anyone else hear that?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Yup, heard that.
I’m also sure I heard Helen’s jaw hitting the floor last night in shock that someone finally had the guts to stand up to her and refuse to be bullied.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Well, if they do manage a fourth term I wont be here to see it. Already making feelers about moving my investments to Australia and getting some lame job over there that pays 30% more than I get in my job here to pay the rest of the bills. Fuck this country if the people are too stupid to see what is happening. I would rather my tax goes to Aussie bludgers and failed policies than Michael Cullen’s trainset.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Secret Agenda
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Any mini budget will include a tax increase and more than likely a back down on the recent tax cuts.
I can just hear Kullen’s justification now….”We simply cannot afford the extravagance of tax cuts at this time, the govt needs to raise revenue to grow the economy blah blah blah”
We should not forget that if Labour are to form the next govt they will have to be in coalition with the Greens.
The Greens are a high tax party, expect to see a capital gains tax and a envy tax on those who earn $80k plus.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Yep, Labour is all about Tax and Spend, Tax and Spend, Tax and Spend. The fiscal soundness of their first few years was an extremely lucky legacy they inherited from previous responsible administrations. But they simply have NO tools of economic policy in their kit to cope with a bad economic situation. They will continue to Tax and Spend, Tax and Spend, Tax and Spend.
The ultimate conclusion in the event that there is no change of government, is that they will run out of revenue AND sources of loan money – especially if loan money is tight internationally. Then what? Messy.
As far as I’m concerned, this can’t come too soon. I’d rather John Key doesn’t win this election, because it COULD happen to HIM; or even if it doesn’t go that sour on him, he will get hell from the MSM whatever he does, AND he will be made a scapegoat for eternity by the MSM and the socialists, who of course will be back in in a landslide in 3 years, and the stupid, stupid, stupid people who vote for the socialists will believe it regardless of how much worse things then get.
We need a clean victory over socialism. I am afraid that requires a total “bust”, categorically, undeniably overseen throughout by the socialists themselves. Here is a very relevant suggestion from Milton Friedman:
“….only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable…..”
“Small government” and low taxes, is a politically inevitable conclusion to the current crisis. Government will become small by default, when the government simply can no longer pay its bills.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Yes, I agree we can trust Labour.
We can trust them to spend our money recklessly.
We can trust them to reneg on tax cut promises.
We can trust them to raise taxes in every way possible.
We can trust them to try to interfere in the minutest details of our lives.
Its all about trust.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Where are all the Labour Trolls today?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 10:17 am
To the above, I will add, and I don’t care if I am repeating myself, it is important for NATIONAL to “keep alive” those “ideas that are lying around” (to use Milton Friedman’s terms).
It is a mistake for the Nats to “swallow dead rats” and change their policies to what ignorant voters WANT, just so they can get a crack at power. The effect of this is, that the faulty economic policy gets further legitimised in the minds of voters, the Nats hamstring themselves in terms of what difference they can make in the event that they do get into office; if they “keep their promises”, they will not be able to turn around a bad situation, and they will be made scapegoats of by the MSM for things that are not their long-term fault; if they DO take any bold steps that might turn things around, they will get beaten up from here to eternity for “hidden agenda’s” and “untrustworthiness” (while the socialists will get away with murder when it comes to exactly the same things); either way, they will be a one-term wonder only, and will merely serve to give a boost to the Heleban’s long-term agenda.
If they really cared about the future of NZ, rather than the baubles of office, they would refuse to swallow dead rats and would publicly stick to the economic principles they know to be true, and they would be full of fire and thunder as an opposition, being proved right over and over and over, and saying “we told you so”, over and over and over; until one day, the brain dead voters and even the snivelling socialist MSM might have a chance of admitting the truth. Going along with the ostracisation of Roger Douglas and his era and the ideas represented by the ACT Party, bodes no good for NZ’s long term chances.
The first Lange Cabinet was the last really good one we had, that really understood this stuff regardless of the fact that they were Labour; such was the undeniable reality of the failure of years of socialism not just from Kirk/Rowling, and Labour governments but Muldoon and earlier National governments. I see no equivalent today, to the team of Lange, Douglas, Moore, Prebble, Caygill, DeCleene, Bassett, sorry, there will be other names I have omitted. Those guys were on fire with conviction about the tough realities that NZ needed to face, at least until Lange lost his nerve and the Heleban succeeded in reimposing “tax and spend” socialism on the Party – by which time NZ was lucky enough to have a National government that kept the economically responsible program and even did a few more things that Douglas hadn’t got his way on.
Would somebody PLEEZE tell the National Party’s “strategists” all this stuff?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 10:25 am
“they would be full of fire and thunder as an opposition,”
Hahah- thanks for the laff. They don’t have the information, they don’t have the mindset, they don’t have the party unity and they don’t have the damn balls. Like the Republicans, they need a damn good clean out of left wingers, liberals and Labour party stooges. They can never deliver a coherent message when they’re so confused about who they are.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 10:39 am
What’s the secret? They’ll just keep over taxing and over spending on wastful initiatives as they have for the past nine years.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:10 am
The last time National refused to move to the centre ground was under Brash and we all know the result of that strategy thanks PhilBest. It is a bit late to be talking strategy now anyway. But if you had have taken it to them a year ago, they would have politely said thanks and later laughed or cringed about how out of touch it is.
Redbaiter, nice spin but, on the contrary, the GOP need to clean out their evangelical nutters or be prepared to spend the next 12 years without a GOP President. Times have changed. Labour have proven quite successful with their lefties but will be now in opposition for some time as it catches up on them. Frankly, I could not care less.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:16 am
By proven successful I mean Labour have been in Govt for three terms. As Key has said, their “rhetoric has been laudable, their record appalling”.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:26 am
“Redbaiter, nice spin but, on the contrary, the GOP need to clean out their evangelical nutters”
Sarah Palin is a Christian who enjoys 80% support amongst Alaskan voters and is the biggest thing to hit US politics in decades drawing crowds three times bigger than any other politician. Keep clinging to your pitiful secularist delusions hate and intolerance- in the end, that is what will defeat you.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Sarah Palin is incompetent (particularly on foreigh policy and economics) and offers nothing to the GOP except that she is a woman. Alaska is a very safe GOP state and hardly a microcosm of US society. She is even worse than Dubya.
Vote:The only dislike I have is how intolerant the evangelicals are of people living the way they choose to. Oh and their refusal to allow scientific research that can imoprove our civilisation because of their religious objections – a bit like animal rights activists. She has helped stuff McCain’s campaign with her relentless personal attacks on Obama. She more than contributes to McCain’s lack of direction.
October 15th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Big bruv….
Vote:Capital gains tax indeed, possibly even death duties….according to a Stephen Franks post reporting what Grant Robertson said at a recent Wellington Central Cottage Meeting.
Grant can be ‘trusted’ to know given his recent ’9th Floor’ employment & connections.
Refer http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/?p=599
October 15th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“The only dislike I have is how intolerant the evangelicals are of people living the way they choose to.”
A completely false allegation and rich when you yourself display far more rank bigotry than any Christian I’ve ever met. Fuck off you dumb leftist stooge.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
How much will it cost?
Initial but as yet confidential calculations undertaken by the author of The Statistical Movement in Victorian Britain (but which calculations shall of course, in the fullnes of time, be subject to review, fine tuning, in-depth analysis and eventual extrapolation with regard to the various relevant potential permutations that will then be flexed in line with the full range of anticipated parameters, and of course, then finally be subjected to peer review by a geriatric chimpanzee at Wellington Zoo – ie increased substantially) place the size of this investment in our future somewhere in a range between Hon Parekura Horomia and a reasonably large death star.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
“The only dislike I have is how intolerant the evangelicals are of people living the way they choose to.”
I’m an evangelical AND a libertarian. So are many other evangelicals, especially in the US. But that does not mean I have to personally agree with behaviour that I think is morally wrong, or that my kids should indoctrinated against my will by the advocates of said behaviour.
I also think real science is good for society, but I oppose secular humanist ideology masquerading as science (Darwinism).
And, because I believe in the right to life, liberty and property for ALL people regardless of age, science that makes progress by killing innocent children in the womb is no different to what the Nazi’s did.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
I don’t care about the negative Karma, I’m with Redbaiter on this.
Consider: What a politician gets up to in the bedroom: doesn’t matter?
Whether a politician believes in an abstract truth or a higher authority to which they are answerable: we’d prefer they DIDN’T believe in those things?
Whether a politician makes a fetish and a religion out of exalting nature to a higher status than man: irrelevant?
Whether a politician believes in our own culture: we’d prefer they DIDN’T?
Whether a politician believes that the reasons for any one culture to have brought superior outcomes to its adherents, are important; or believes that our attitude to all cultures should be strictly neutral: doesn’t matter?
I could go on, but for Pete’s sake……? Only the most anti-Christian bigotry could result in the sort of hate speech AGAINST “Christian fundamentalists” holding any sort of public office that is the norm even on this “center-right moderate” blog.
C.S. Lewis made the comment once, that “we mock at honour and are shocked when we produce knaves”…..?
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
The Herald article is informative and fair comment but why are they not referring to December’s Liabour mini budget as a SECRET AGENDA for that is what it is. The Media were screaming SECRET AGENDA whenever one of the Nats mis-spoke sowhy aren’t they all over Liabour’s secret agenda in December stunt.
Vote:October 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Baxter
” The Herald article is informative and fair comment but why are they not referring to December’s Liabour mini budget as a SECRET AGENDA for that is what it is. The Media were screaming SECRET AGENDA whenever one of the Nats mis-spoke sowhy aren’t they all over Liabour’s secret agenda in December stunt”
Look….. there is one clear and startling fact about the MSM, they live in Helen and Mike’s utopia world, they have the same disease that MSM had under Muldoon, they are too scared of losing they jobs to criticise the Heleban. Yes MSM should be all over the bitch like a rash, but she has a Mafia like personality that has an affinity with concrete slippers etc. …..however, I think some of them are starting to grow a spine, and saying the emperor doesnt have any clothes!!!!
Vote:October 16th, 2008 at 2:57 am
Has Labour promised that it isn’t going to reverse tax cuts in its secret mini-Budget in December?
Vote:October 16th, 2008 at 7:05 am
No, and they can’t. All the signals are there – Cullen is “out of his comfort zone”, Clark is promising more spending than they can possibly afford, Cullen has talked about increased borrowing…….
Vote:the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Cullen will cancel the tax-cuts (in the same way that he cancelled the cuts that he scheduled in 2005) and will increase taxes, most likely via another top rate so that it only affects “rich pricks”.
National needs someone to “release” this information into the public domain, hopefully around Nov 5th.
October 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am
It’s worth checking out this You Tube entry; a photo journalist’s report on the Aro Valley meeting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF1hhpi7IwE&eurl=http://thedailychainsawofjoy.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html
David – you might like to link to it?
Vote: