Comments on: Constructive Criticisms

By: Brian Marshall

Brian Marshall — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:55:14 +0000

re ” Ben Wilson (322) Vote: 0 0 Says:
November 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

“Did you say something that anyone here actually DID disagree with? Try it.”

Yes I have. It’s nice to have been argued with based upon the the facts not the personalities.

By: Turpin

Turpin — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:51:29 +0000

Work does bring dignity and where possible we should make prisoners work for their own dignity.
Whilst offsetting their cost to the community.
Education to the next level they are capable of would also help their dignity and employ ability.
in fact trade training would probably pay back incalculably.

the resourcing to accomplish this would be appreciable compared to what we spending now..
the question is Is it worth it?
I say yes for those who want it and and make the effort to grow.
Rehabilitation abck into society must be the goal.

For those who don’t, or reoffend lock them up for longer.
Maybe even cheap private prisons where shit happens.
hell we could even outsource it to China as part of a free trade deal.

By: baxter

baxter — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:28:58 +0000

[DPF: I highlighted his otherwise unreported statements on Back Benches that we should set up a prisoner of war camp near Wairarou as a prison, and feed prisoners for 75c a day.

I'm not so sure it couldn't be done. A Few decades back they used to have efficient Prison Farms in that area and fertility has probably improved since then.. I don't know the present situation but one thing that has changed is the quality of the prisoner(or worker) for the worse.

By: Ben Wilson

Ben Wilson — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:19:33 +0000

I’ve read Kiwiblog for a while and only ever posted a few times, but I have never been attacked personally if I said anything that someone else might disagree with

Did you say something that anyone here actually DID disagree with? Try it.

By: happy-jacko

happy-jacko — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:17:31 +0000

I agree – we must make sure we keep the nats on their toes – they are of the same breed – ie politicians are politicians and its in their genes to act alike

By: Brian Marshall

Brian Marshall — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:38:57 +0000

I’ve read Kiwiblog for a while and only ever posted a few times, but I have never been attacked personally if I said anything that someone else might disagree with, unlike on Scoop where rabid lefties will attack anything and anyone that questions their worship of Gordon Campbell’s opinions and Labour.
DPF, you blog and mangement of the site is something to be proud of. The fact Kiwiblog is the number one blog in NZ, bares that out. Keep it up and question everything, even a Nat led govt.

By: Ben Wilson

Ben Wilson — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:39:13 +0000

I will be curious to see the evolution of this blog now, for sure. It’s going to change, that is obvious, since DPF makes no secret of his alignment with the elected government. I’m not so sure about most of the commenters, since most of them are just mentally blocked out by reason of seldom actually posting any new content. My feeling was that they are more aligned with the government than the previous one. Will the tone become less shrill? Will railing against lefties in government every second sentence switch to jeering at lefties out of government, or will it switch to the lefties that can be found as malcontents within the government? Or will it stop, and move away from railing and jeering?

DPF will set the tone on that. The choice of thread topics will guide discussion. I’m hardly expecting to see any vendetta style series of threads like the ones on campaign financing that dominated almost an entire year here. Which will be an improvement. But it may not attract anywhere near the level of interest amongst the regulars. Watching this space.

By: Turpin

Turpin — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:25:50 +0000

Kiwipol
Your premise for solo mothers getting pregnant to stay on the benefit may be correct for some.
I’m not sure that is true for all solo parents on the benefit though.

Another option might be to require further education for future employment and or P/T job skills placement.
Incremental change as options rather than hard up movement.
Remember not all solo parents on the benefit want to be there, to them it is a hand up not a hand out.

Stephen Franks say’s “one must not do harm” when writing laws and that could be applied to policy too.

We want long term beneficiaries in long term employment.
We want Solo parents to do the best that they can do in bringing up their children otherwise it costs us as a society so much more in the long run.
How we do it, is as important as doing it.

By: Paw Prick

Paw Prick — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:07:12 +0000

Ironic, isn’t it, that the only ministry to be discontinued is the Ministry of Rural Affairs? National, who claim to own provincial and rural NZ, should think again about this.
All the breast beating that’s going on about export led recovery, increasing productivity, and the importance of the rural economy for NZ and then they axe Rural Affairs, the only outfit that has shown any interest in rural community enhancement and policy development.
Yep, we sure need a Minister for the Rugby World Cup, horse racing and the National Library – but health and education services for rural, can look after themselves.
Good on Rural Women New Zealand for highlighting this.

By: kiwipolemicist

kiwipolemicist — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:15:58 +0000

Another criticism of the new government: their plan to get solo parents on the Domestic Purposes Benefit into work will result in more fatherless children.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/plans-to-get-solo-parents-to-work-will-backfire/

By: expat

expat — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:03:56 +0000

New Zealand is small country struggling to stay in the developed world, lets not fool ourselves.

The struggle facing New Zealand in one respect is that of relevancy i.e. how to stay relevant in the international community. Lange gave New Zealand moral and ethical relevancy during his leadership through the nuclear free policies and also the reforms of the fucked up socialist state that New Zeland had become post the commies and the facists. We have been coasting on that legacy for far too long, now I’m not suggesting economic suicide by anti-anything policies (like oil or meat as the greens would lead us towards) but New Zealand needs to reinvent itself in terms of relevancy in the international community, endless Hakas will only go so far.

The other struggle that New Zealand faces is that of economic development and productivity growth, dirty filthy concepts to the last government we know, nothwithstanding, items that need to be addressed.

So Two key areas of government policy that need strong development:

1) External promotion, positioning and international relations.
2) Domestic economic reform.

Go for it New Zealand.

By: Sam

Sam — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:40:45 +0000

DPF – I am certain that this government is nowhere near as ‘blue’ as your own political position (and certainly nowhere near as much as the more rabid of the regulars to this site) – so that should mean PLENTY of criticism every time JK rolls out another socialist policy. If you fail at that, then the forum here immediately becomes redundant as a right wing political blog, and just becomes are Standardista type lackey to the party of choice. I trust you will keep your integrity intact however…

By: Lee C

Lee C — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:17:14 +0000

It’s like ‘Christianity versus Islam’ isn’t it? ie Christianity has the spirit of self-examination built into that Islam lacks? (Start the car…)
The reason kiwiblog (and perhaps elements of the ‘right’) are ‘better than say the VDS and elements of the left – is that kiwiblog accomodates, encourages and accepts a wider variety of views, and accepts that you can praise or deride as you see fit, without getting some plonker writing a mini-essay in bold print about how ‘fair ‘they are or their ‘atttitude’ towards ‘trolls’ etc everytime. Not that it ever happened to me becasue I am a skilled wordsmith who just sails provocatively close to the envelope without burning my feathers.
Or something.

Ergo kiwiblog is the best blog we have – after MWT of course.

By: thas

thas — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:30:03 +0000

DPF: re: your last paragraph: I had an interesting conversation tonight with a friend of mine who is a life-long Labour supporter (ironically a maori female business-woman) and I described my hopes for a new government t to reflect the very Kiwi idea of community-ism rather than communism.

There is a difference, and it depends on the most successful economic model for our small country – hence my vote for Key. If they get caught in the crap that I saw the Shipley government in when I first returned in 1998, then . . .

We are lucky to live in a small, rich country (and personally in a provincial town – Nelson) where we can afford to look after people and have to.

I think the idealogues should travel more.

By: Madeleine

Madeleine — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:20:10 +0000

Toad, David Garrett made an analogy and, everyone who cannot reason, thought he made an identity claim. Of course the the reason for the mass hysteria was that the analogy was on a particular secular sacred cow that one must never ever criticise no matter how flawed an argument advanced for it might be. Further, even when one isn’t actually criticising it, like Garrett who just made an analogy and was in fact criticising something else, it must not be possible for the intellectually challenged to even think that you might have criticised it.

(I just blogged on it so if you want links to the “scandal”…)

By: reid

reid — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:56:20 +0000

Ratbiter:

“We won, you lost. Fuck you.” Nice.

Thanks, I was pretty proud of it.

“OUR democracy”
Here’s the thing – it’s the lefties’ democracy too. One leftie, one rightie, two votes each. Where’s this “we” you’re speaking for, exactly?

Both of us Rb. Honestly, are you thick? This means one of us doesn’t get to decide what happens by themselves. Which is EXACTLY what you arseholes decided to try.

Luckily you’re not basing your whole argument on one presumption. Oh no, wait…

I was more making a point in a humorous way than writing a uni essay Rb. Stream of consciousness you know, but I claim fair comment based on evidence. The way Key’s behaved so far, it would be extremely surprising if he chose to act in the same way Liarbore did on this issue, wouldn’t you agree? Oh no, wait, you probably wouldn’t. Luckily however, I don’t give a shit.

“You lefties pretend in your lying, underhand and sinister way…”
Not that you’re generalizing people though? Only a dirty leftie would do that…

Yes a dirty leftie would do that Rb, but sinister is from the dictionary and lying and underhand is from general and repeated observation beyond doubt and quite provable. I have lots of examples just waiting to be wheeled out, when I can be arsed.

“Far more than you deserve…”
Which would be what, exactly? 10 years inside for all Labour voters? Or just party members? Or just the MPs? Is it time for a little counter-reformation, in Reid’s eyes? Complete with burnings at the stake for those that won’t convert?

Crikey Rb are you fucking blind? After what you lefties tried to do, to OUR democracy (hope we’ve cleared that one up), it would be entirely understandable and absolutely deserving for all of you lefties and I mean that in the most general way possible, to receive a serve of the same. However I predict you’ll find that unlike the displays of vengeful Hulun (e.g. in the way she deliberately humiliated Tariana after being spurned), Key has not a vengeful bone in his body.

Portia – angry little despots will always find something to be angry about, never fear…

Sometimes I find lefties mistake strong invective expressed on a blog, for real anger. Personally that’s amusing to me and I laugh and laugh.

By: Innocent bystander

Innocent bystander — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:39:38 +0000

DPF – I’m sure you will be just as tough on the Government as the Standard was on the previous one.

[DPF: You mean I have to defend Winston? ]

By: Ratbiter

Ratbiter — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:18:33 +0000

Portia – angry little despots will always find something to be angry about, never fear…

By: Ratbiter

Ratbiter — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:17:38 +0000

“We won, you lost. Fuck you.”
Nice.

“OUR democracy”
Here’s the thing – it’s the lefties’ democracy too. One leftie, one rightie, two votes each. Where’s this “we” you’re speaking for, exactly?

“I bet that when Key decides to put it on the agenda…”
You presume a great deal. Luckily you’re not basing your whole argument on one presumption. Oh no, wait…

“You lefties pretend in your lying, underhand and sinister way…”
Not that you’re generalizing people though? Only a dirty leftie would do that…

“Far more than you deserve…”
Which would be what, exactly? 10 years inside for all Labour voters? Or just party members? Or just the MPs? Is it time for a little counter-reformation, in Reid’s eyes? Complete with burnings at the stake for those that won’t convert?

By: Portia

Portia — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:13:14 +0000

Constructive criticism welcome? Good on you David. After all, it’s not possible to have debate and discussion without it.

This new era will probaly feel a bit weird for Kiwiblog regulars – first reactions to new government policy will now have to be not
However, brickbats can still be saved for critics of the new government.

So, as a wee test of how far you want to take this concept – how about posting and inviting comments on Tim Watkin’s latest blog over at Pundit …

http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/asking-mean-questions-about-the-coalition-deals