Final TV One debate
November 5th, 2008 at 8:07 pm by David FarrarI’m struck by how civilised it is, and how often they both agreed with each other and backed each other’s answers up. Almost as if they were campaigning on the same ticket.
No big fuck ups and no home runs, so I don’t think any votes will swing on it. I will say I thought it was Helen’s best performance of the three debates – she talked like a real person and connected in a way she hadn’t with other debates. John did just that in the first debate, and of course again this time.
I actually say they are both joint winners – it was a good natured yet informative debate with minimal squabbling. Or so far anyway.
UPDATE 1: It’s only got more cordial. Someone must have spiked the fruit juice. I swear they’re going to hug each other at the end of the debate instead of the traditional handshake!
UPDATE 2: The debate makes me wonder if Labour polling tells them there has been a backlash over the H-Fee, secret tapings you can’t trust John agenda, because Helen talking about how John is a decent guy who just has different policies to her totally goes against their campaign to date of how you can’t trust him.
Anyway debates all over and two days to go. Yay.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Agree with your points. But Mzzzzzz Clark is acting, this is not her nature. I dont buy into it. I still think she is an oxygen thief….
John Key is still a gentleman, you dont need to act like a poison bull dog to succeed in politics, just that many NZ’ers feel it is needed….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
yep… but his nice guy rountine is real and she’s a bitch.
Sorry to be blunt but thats the truth plain and simple.
If someone had coached her to savage old ladies in the front row to win power she would do it in a heart beat.
Deceitful calculating bitch.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
I disagree.
John has been very cunning at slipping in to most points what Nationals relevant policy is.
Helen has just rabbitted on about what they have done in the last nine years.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
I heard today is that the talk in the Taxi fleets is a big swing to National and the Taxi drivers always know what is going on.
More important is the amount of immigrant drivers who would normally vote Labour, but have had enough and are going for the two blue ticks.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
They’re joint winners cause it’s so fucking boring and Sainsbury won’t let any heat happen.
Vote:I love when the camera goes off John and back on frowny Clark.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Helen said she is going to get tough on gangs. What century is that going to happen you deranged bullshitter!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
I know what it is. John Key is a metrosexual. He came across as a wimp, a pussy–a pussy-wimp–during the “what moves you” sticky moment, I thought he was gonna hug Helen as they both wobbled like jellies over their mutually held feelings.
I mean we know Clark is a hypocrite, but Key needs a man juice injection. He looked damned uncomfortable. Eat a steak!!
It’s getting very hard to do the necessary thing on Saturday…
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Quietly thinking they may both be very tired.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I feel sick.
What a choice the smiling assassin, or the “I agree with her John Key?”
The Maori Party have their hand out for more cash, and they are not even in parliament yet!!!
We heard about the leaders opinions on NZ’s farm animals, and everything else in between, but
when asked what about 18,000 New Zealand babies murdered every year they fell over themselves
running to hide behind their “pc” positions.
From Helen Clark I expect this, as she was the architect of much of the legislation
surrounding abortion,
John Key you may not want to change the law but you could bloody well grown a spine, and say that this number is totally unacceptable!!!
Abortion is not a matter between a woman and her doctor, it is a human rights issue.
Just as well they both don’t believe in God, because where they are both going, they
Vote:won’t be meeting him anytime soon!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Clark just called National a “GREAT PARTY”, ok, so she named labour one too, but WTF???
Vote:This from Ms. Frowny face!!!!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
She’s probably been told that beng Ms stern faced bitch doesn’t cut the mustard with the voters anymore, hence the “love fest”.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
The smiling pink coated assassin is Mzzzz Clark…….. Dont be fooled and under estimate an oxygen thieving snake….
Was that a debate or a smoko break and a nice up of tea? Mark S, grow some nuts!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Medusa and I have been reminded of what is really important. Her mother (84 years old) has been admitted to Dunedin Hospital for urgent surgery. The “Leader’s debate” is small potatoes in comparrison. Thankfully (what a terrible term!) it is urgent enough to be dealt with immediately (twisted-necrotic small intestine). I am waiting up for the surgeon’s phone call while Medusa gets some much needed sleep before she drives for 11-12 hours from Nelson to Dunedin tomorrow. I just hope when I get the news, it is good……..
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
they actually shook hands. john reached first but helen didn’t flinch. revolution.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
She does look very pleased with herself and thats cos she’s been snogging H2 in the green room
[DPF: 20 demerits]
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
They just said who the panel will be for the review of the debate at 10.30. One of the three is Brian Edwards. How the hell is that unbiased? They should just chuck Mike Williams in there for good measure.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Oh and by the way Ms Clark..
If you have the cheek to say you live your life by Christian principles then
perhaps you might like to consider wearing a wedding ring!
You know that thing they put on your finger when you get married.
Vote:Normally to someone of the opposite sex.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
i think Hulun was trying to be nice – spin meisters told her the “bulldog chewing a wasp face” doesnt turn voters on and this was her attempt to come over as statesman-like (got the man bit across anyway)
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
A policy of aspiration not a policy of envy. Briilant
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
She still had that snarl every time Key scored a point off her.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Make no mistake, it’s all smoke and mirrors from HC. Body language (ie. facial expressions) dosen’t lie. Always the consumate politician, she knows she’s history and dosen’t want to burn her bridges. A vote for Labour is a vote for more of the same. A vote for National is a vote for change (fingers crossed)
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Why hasn’t someone got the balls to say that this Climate Change shit is just crap.
FFS its snowing in November.
Thats right they changed it from Global Warming because it was starting to cool down.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Even Whaleoil thinks they needed God.
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=content/helen039s-downfall
Thank goodness someone has some balls.
Vote:This latest from Whaleoil is his best yet!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
She said that?!?
Her life goals couldn’t be further from Christian principles.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
its pretty obvious who won the first 2 debates.
labour fans can say helen did etc.. but if she had won – we wouldnt have seen such a dramatic change in style… she didnt change style against brash!
what a boring debate it was.
not happy that neither believe in god.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
And why when asked about Israel didn’t he say “Well Israel is a great model for a knowledge economy and we could learn alot from them. Also I don’t see much value in establishing a state for bunch of towel heads that are only living in overcrowded dumps because they have the second highest birthrate in the world.”
How dare HC say we are great friends of Israel. She hates Jews, hates Israel and banned the imports of their products and exports of our products to them. Bitch
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
That wasn’t a debate it was like watching a chat show a la Larry King or Michael Parkinson.
As for Helen, did someone taken her off the grumpy pills for the night? She was so ‘nice’. Trouble with Clark being nice she reminds me of Basil Fawlty trying to be nice. It looks so phoney and insincere.
Not a lot in it. Key got a good hit about the speeding ticket and clearly won the discussion about KiwiRail.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Was I watching the same debate?
Helen killed Key.
This was the female debate where both candidates had the room to say what they thought and to express their desires and their opinions. And Helen killed Key. Sorry did you see his last statement? He blew it. Her stuff came from the heart and his stuff came from CT and he ran out of their lines.
Notice how there have been no polls lately? I hear that the Herald, CB and Fairfax do not want to release them because the results show a left wing surge.
Obama winning in the US (God bless him) is nothing but a boost for the left. Throughout the world ordinary people want left wing rule because they know that it will be in their best interests. Like it or not Key is part of the Wall Street money trader clique that is very unpopular. I might trust him with some of my money but I would not trust him with my country.
And Helen is right. The feeling in our communities is that people fundamentally trust Helen and Labour and want them to continue.
Roll on Saturday.
[DPF: Wow you really do live in your own world complete with conspiracy theories. Say hi to the little green men]
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
All they needed was a screen between them and the could of called the show “blind date”.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
MS she doesn’t have a heart. She is the devil incarnate.
Your’ve still got the tears in your eyes from watching Obama
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Do you have to change hands to type micky?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Funny that. I thought that it would be a boost for fatherless, rage-to-riches, inexperienced politicians who might aspire to lead their nation!
I didn’t see the debate, but based on the observations that Clark appeared fluffy and warm, and given that her behaviour over the last nasty and vicious 9 years… then I’d say she was acting for the swing voters.
Prediction: Landslide victory to National on Saturday.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
“Helen killed Key”
WTF? Just ask yourself this…..who HAD to change tack in order to compete? Job done JK!
Roll on Saturday indeed!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
How come the media haven’t picked up that the Govt has written down already the value of Kiwirail by $250 million? Key had to point this out.
This is what Garner should be focusing on.
Thats $250million of real cash. MickeyWankFace how do you explain to all those people waiting for operations that they can’t have them because your party fucked up big time?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Fuck off muckysavage.. youre a jerk and a loser.
And while I have no intention of engaging a pathetic troll … Obama would probably be to the right of ACT in this country, but you keep deluding yourself, hopefully it’ll be your head exploding and not your loins on Saturday.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Queen Bee is right. Helen knows she has to be nice if she wants a job. The UN is off.
Vote:And Helen actually responded to JK’s extended hand and shook it!!!
There has to have been some negative focus group feedback, or else a realisation it’s all over.
Or perhaps she was cringing with embarrassment at how her past shrill performances have compared to the statesmanlike speeches we saw earlier tonight from McCain and Obama.
Anyway, JK was able to speak rationally and sensibly this time without too much interruption, and successfully despatched several vital torpedoes on time, while Helen just spouted the undelivered promises of the past 9 years again.
My wife was getting agitated by Sainsbury’s practice of cutting JK off early on, but he got over that after a while.
Relatively insipid compared to the inspiration of the two POTUS candidates.
Could we please have McCain if the Yanks don’t want him?
November 5th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Clark keep on saying she has always held the same values. Exactly those values from the hippy days of the 60/70′s.
Its time to bring NZ in to the new century.
Party vote National.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
MickeySavage:
Re you idiotic polls comment, Espiner on One News on Monday announced that the next Colmar Brunton poll is to be released on Thursday. They’d hardly release a poll today…….
Try to keep up lad….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
“we were happy to pay a premium for kiwirail”… like its coming out of her bank account.
dont remember being asked “hey dime, you pay a shitload of tax, you happy if we buy a train set? we are gonna overpay by 50%”
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
TVNZ manipulated the debate so that Clark appeared similiar to Key(with policy, not looks).
Clark used this ploy to get the swing voters in 1999, and it worked. Sainsbury was useless,again, and kept giving Clark first right of reply and cutting Key off.
Roll on Sat!!!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
My understanding is private polling is not looking good for Labour in a big way. They are seriously looking at a landslide.
Key also would have got the Maori Party onside with the comment about the Maori Affairs role.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Pick up on the speeding ticket comment?….comedy brilliance (not that she realised it until the audience and JK laughed)
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Dime, couldn’t have said it better myself.
$250mil could go a long way with health, poverty………………….
And as you said, like its HER MONEY???
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Roll on Saturday, I do hope that the vast majority of NZ’s whom have there hands out finally engage their brains before there voting and come to their senses….
Simple, any Tom, Dick or Harry could have run this country in the last decade, the global community has had more money than a bull can shit and we still slip down the OECD rankings, if that is not enough for these lefty oxygen thieves to switch to blue, then my mind will remain jelly and I will continue asking myself why I moved back to New Zealand….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
DPF is right – is was dull, dull draw.
Southern raider
How dare HC say we are great friends of Israel. She hates Jews, hates Israel and banned the imports of their products and exports of our products to them. Bitch
I’m no fan of Clark, but do you have any evidence for any of these claims?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Lindsay Addie
I have followed a few election campaigns. I have not witnessed a gap in the reporting of polls like we are seeing now. Is it that the polls are quite close, like Labour 38, Greens 11, Maori 3, NZF 4 and god forbid a left wing majority? Perhaps the Herald has decided not to report this particular result.
As for buying kiwirail the original lunatic decision was to sell it. The process of getting it back into public ownership has been long and expensive. It should not happen. Blame the people who privatised it.
National’s plans for broadband will only entrench a private monopoly. They will do no more than pay Telecom a lot of money to do work that they should be doing anyway.
There are many aggressive and dismissive comments about Helen’s performance. Obviously you do not see what I saw about the debate and Helen’s honesty and intellectual ability. What about JK? He was pathetic. At the end he ran out of CT lines and had to think for himself and Helen then killed him.
Do you prefer testosterone filled situations. Why are you not able to countenance a situation where female rules of discourse and decision making are allowed to rule?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Always remember the old saying that: “The arse you kick today may be the one you have to lick tomorrow”. (As epitomised by our old ex-mate Spud Bolger). So Auntie is just keeping her options open for that UN job in case the application form has a “character reference” space for the next PM to fill in .
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Did anyone notice that “Trust” is no longer in the election vocab? Not a single one time that I picked up.
Vote:They have the crappies alright.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
bobox, she banned Israeli imports and exports when she found that there were Mossad agents in NZ.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
What, no “I love you, Mr Key”?
That’s traditionally been the way power mad dictators on an obvious hiding to nothing have concluded their last, amazingly cordial, debate
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
so selling any assets is bad… BUT shes happy to rely on business to fund fibre to the homes.. all cause she sold telecom and deregulated the industry…
AND THEN
she talks about privatising ACC! like its this great fuckin asset!?!?!?!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Johnboy just hit the nail on the head.. QB has just posted on Clark’s performance tonight. It struck me that she is trying to go down with some dignity and the constant mentioning of Bolger is code for please help me get a job.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
On the money DPF. Labour internal polls are saying the whole smear/ trust strategy has turned people off. Feedback on the solo mum ad is also looking fairly grim, so a return to being reasonable in front of the camera was inevitable. Look for a pulling of attack ads and an attempt to push why you should be grateful HC is so reasonable over the next 48 hours. All looks too late though. Can’t wait to see the photoshop versions of Helen and Obama before Saturday!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Why questions from kids? The You Tube involvement was a waste of time…would’ve preferred a panel to grill them…but kids? Fuck me!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Hey MichaelNotVerySavageAtall. I just checked your last five posts at the Waitakereffort to reply blog and it appears that you have 2 comments for 5 posts and one of them was yours.
Is that why you are here talking shit!
Save the expense, close your no-hoper blog and get back to the Stranded where you belong tosser.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
And they didn’t ban anything Kiwi when Kee Keizer stopped by
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
D4J
Helen said she is going to get tough on gangs. What century is that going to happen you deranged bullshitter!
Agree with you Dad.
Vote:All the gangs are laughing and voting Liarbour.
Amazing she puts food in the same hole that the shit comes out of!
November 5th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
She certainly looked uncomfortable when the cameras were on her and mad as a hatter when she thought they weren’t. I don’t imagine many voter will have been swayed though. You know, I wish her all the bet in her ‘posting abroad’ – the further abroad the better. And Mickeysavage – my grandfather, always a gent and a real Labour supporter, in the days when Labour were a real party, would have been absolutely disgusted with your faulty reasoning and blind idiocy. Peanut – he wouldn’t have been too impressed with your comments either. Maybe it is your genuine belief that HC and H2 have a ‘thing’ – a lot wouldn’t disagree, but actually that’s their busines and maners never hurt anyone.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Mickeysavage:
National have been leading in all the public opinion polls for ages now. Going by the flaky tactics Labour appear to be employing it looks to me they’re behind.
It was a lunatic decision to pay too much for it.
Where is your proof for the monopoly comment? I actually think Labour has done a better job in this area of policy overall than the Shipley/Bolger govt. Williamson when he was the minister wasn’t much good.
I actually don’t think anyone killed anyone in that debate. It was a dull affair.
I do like to see a bit of blood on the floor in these debates, it isn’t the Larry King Show.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Thanks Barnsley. I should have persevered with psychology, so I would have picked up on that freudian slip too, but it was just to much to get my head round. —–”What do you mean”. —”Course I’m normal”. –”Stop looking at me like that”!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Gravyman62
You must be seeing different polls to what I am seeing.
Be very afraid. This Saturday you may be very disappointed.
Morgy
I thought that the kids’ questions were some of the best. The question about smoking was a cracker. Labour has made it harder to sell and smoke in enclosed areas. Helen was quite reserved about it but it is really important although an example of “nanny state”. Some will complain about the restriction of their “rights” although many more will live longer because of it.
Johnboy
I have been really busy trying to get Labour re-elected and I have not publicised my website. Feel free to comment and I will respond. I am particularly keen on my post “Why Winston may get off” as it appears that this may actually happen.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
It seemed a relatively tame affair tonite. I think Heilen had to modify her behaviour because she was coming across as a screaming banshee. She did improve her performance, but Key continued with more of the same – more articulate, more convincing and more statesmanlike.
Democracymum
I agree that Key should have spoken about the abortion question more positively – there are far too many babies legally murdered in this country. Heilen didn’t disappoint – she has always said she is agnostic and didn’t believe in God.
I was surprised Key also said he didn’t believe in God.
How the hell do you think all this stuff – world, universe, ordered life – how did it get here?
The only thing that emerges from chaos is more chaos.
Vote:The Intelligent Design that put it all here is called GOD.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Nope Mickey, they’re the same ones but without the spin before reporting. Why else the strategy change and yesterday’s activity?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Bolger did a pretty good job as ambassador to the US. Do you think Helen could handle China or Russia?
Vote:Bolger was then repatriated as Chairman of Kiwibank, now also everything Kiwi— it seems.
So what does Helen come back to run?
I am reminded of the old song to the tune of Col. Bogey:
“Hitler, had only one tin ball.
Himmler had two but they were small.
Goebels, yes poor old Goebels, had no balls, at all.”
Helen lacks a few things, but she is VERY good at propaganda.
So since the Herald is for sale we should buy it and form Kiwinews and arrange for Helen to be Chairman.
Then we will all be sure of reading exactly what we should read, nothing more and nothing less.
No time wasting with Fran and Armstrong, and definitely none of that crusty old bloke with radical views that comes on occasionally.
Wouldn’t that be good for us?
Certainly get us more time to work on growing the economy just like JK wants.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Morgy – don’ t you think children have brains? Do you think they will never grow up? Of course the 12 year old wtih an incurable tumour won’t – but she has a right to know how her mother and father can be helped to spend as much of the precious time she has lft WITH HER as possible – not in just trying to make ends meet.
Vote:I asked my first question at a political meeting when I was 16 – i guess by your rules I shouln’t even have been taking an interest. My children are both politically aware. One, in the States on a student exchange, is studing US Government and economics. Would we had more courses like that in our high schools, so more children wouyld ask questions.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
They only way Winston will get off now is if the Velas jack him up with a hooker mate.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
mickeysavage,
You might think that the kids questions were great, but they can’t legally vote and they don’t pay taxes. They have used up valuable question time that a genuine enrolled voter could have had.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Good stuff Rod what do you know of “Eskimo Nell”.
It starts—”When a man grows old and his balls grow cold—–”.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
All children have parents – their parents were probably proudly listening – see where this is going, peanut?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
@Johnboy
Vote:There was a time, mate.
Mexican Pete and a few other unsavoury characters also …
November 5th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
The defining moment for me was the ability to
Vote:change a position. Clark could not think of any examples in close to 30 years of being a politician. She gave a lame example of following the party line. Key gave two great examples. This is what real leadership is about. It’s not about being a control freak who can’t admit being wrong.If anything needed to convince me to vote national that question would have done it.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Yea,mudmum,
Get the parents to ask the question then. 12year olds can’t vote………..yet.
TVNZ has used those kids to soften the look for Clark and it is offensive.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that TVNZ selected questions that could only generate a neutral response.
Vote:If this is true, it only helps take the heat off labours recent irrational agression and presents a more resonable sounding Helen Clark.
If Helen dosen’t believe the lies her party are spreading against Key and National, why the heck is she allowing it to happen?
It was a very poor debate in my opinion, some of those selected questions were just absurd, it got very close to making a mockery of what should be a serious political debate.
TVNZ are drongo’s.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
And thanks Don the Kiwi for trying to slip creationism in. It doesn’t matter what the hell there personal beliefs on religion are. Thats because its personal! In my opinion there isn’t one but I can fully appreciate it if you believe there is however its not important.
Im afraid the abortion debate was answered appropriately. These people are not judge and jury on that issue, if enough NZers were against it you would find these guys backing that sentiment. The reality is the majority of NZers believe its an individuals right and these two are reflecting that, your opinion is outweighed I am afraid, I am not saying your wrong, just a minority view that NZ doesn’t back.
The kids questions were ok but I agree to some extent, we didn’t really need anymore questions about whether H and J are friends, its not important. I am amused by Helen though, its a big change from ‘can’t trust John, two faced John, flip flop John etc’ She said he was a decnt bloke and the National party was a great party! Holy shit!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
To be serious for a moment, didn’t they both stuff up badly over the issue raised by the lady with a 12 year old trying to cope with a brain tumour?
Vote:I was left quite despondent by the waffling by both of them.
I kind of expected it from Helen, but JK dropped the ball there.
Will we ever get some humanity and fairness back into our health system?
November 5th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
If you don’t plan and think long term, then you won’t last long term. The most political savy strategy is to target the 15-16 year olds. With the right policies (and with a bit of luck), you’ll get their vote (and most probably in future years, the vote of their offspring). Its not rocket science for farks sake, its called ‘marketing’.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Peanut, I don’t think it matters they can’t vote yet – they are PEOPLE for goodness sake! JK is a Dad, he can relate to the questions children ask and be proud they asked them. I don’t think it made Helen look good at all – she can’t empathise, because she ain’t been there, done that!
Vote:Sadly, I didn’t hear JK’s answer to the 12 years olds question – people kept calling me, obviously not a well watched programme. I mean, I know they both looked uncomfortable and I heard HC bleating, but that was all.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
both of them struck out for process positives, pulled away from process negatives. HC was ahead on heart and JK on policy for awhile but I thought JK rallied on that front and came over quite real in the last third. Both were pitching to the centre. I suspect JK got more glove contact, in all. HC set the tone by avoiding any hint of the feral, but JK flowed right into the proper game after being a little surprised at the beginning. that man’s good on his feet!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Rod, I agree with you, they both looked bad on the 12 year olds question though to be fair politician or not that would have been a hell question to deal with, what can you say because its basically not working for that family and possibly wouldn’t have under any govt.
But JK did take honours for going straight in and saying Ive changed my mind on two big issues, that does actually require a bit of fortitude and Im not sure any of us believed HC saying ‘i can’t think of any area Ive changed my mind on….hello! Maori Party issue, just the other day…
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Dull last debate but you can’t expect much of two people who are both thinking a lot about getting some sleep. I see the shower issue is still haunting Helen. Funny what people will latch onto. Have to agree with Shunda barunda, some of those questions were absurd.
Vote:Anyway I think Key missed a chance to dig into Helen following the freezing workers question. The slaughter man said he needed stable employment with a stable employer. Is a slaughter man working at Silverfern or Alliance going to get stable employment under Labours ETS after its destructive effect on the profitability of livestock farming? I think not, but Helen doesn’t care. Keeping the Greens happy and staying in power is what matters to her.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Don the Kiwi
Thanks for the support.
I worry that the new leader of the free world won’t even stand up for the rights of babies born alive during abortions.A man who masquerades behind a mask of Christianity to further his own political ambitions.
I guess we can’t accuse Helen and John of doing that.
“In this same spirit, as defenders of the culture of life, John McCain and I believe in the goodness and potential of every innocent life. I believe the truest measure of any society is how it treats those who are least able to defend and speak for themselves. And who is more vulnerable, or more innocent, than a child?
Sarah Palin
And given the birth of her youngest son, unlike Obama it isn’t necessary to check her voting record on this issue
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
“And 40 whores drew down their drawers at Dead Eye Dicks command”
Must have all been politicians I guess?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Although it was a bizarre “debate”, Helen came off better. She switched it up. Helen was a different person, with a different angle which made her more INTERESTING to the viewer. Key ran with the same lines that we have heard in the last two debates. There were few moments that he offered the viewer anything new.
Worst moment for Key: 30 seconds of talking about how working for families is the answer. WFF? – WTF! He was also MIA for a while in the middle of that debate/discussion.
Best moment for key: Talking about meeting the ill child and their parents, remembering their names. He seemed passionate.
Worst moment for Helen: The delay where she was unable to come up with a policy where she had been wrong
Best moment for Helen: Every time she humanised herself. There were a lot of those.
Viewer who I would least like to have a beer with: The anti abortion guy.
I think that “debate” will send a few wavering soft voters back to Labour and gain National little.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Yes great Democracy Mum, good ol Sarah is happy to blow the head off those dark and evil moose and deer that run around up there though, and that right to own a gun to ‘protect yourself’. Redneck agenda has finally been crumpled in the States. Will be a long long time before the Republicans get back in power I think.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
The guys at the Std say Clark won by a mile, which debete were they watching? I will give it a tie, but John gave a better closer, taliking about a Lab/Grn govt and talking about the future. Clark talked about the past.
Mickey Sav at 8.54pm opening comment was very telling:
Vote:‘I agree with Steve (Clinton ‘emufarm’ Smith) and this election is not over.’ This shows that they know the games up IMHO.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
The debate was next to worthless, asking “would you be friends out side the beehive” is great for an audience of school children, but worthless to judge who should be running the bloody country!!
Other questions they could have asked:
Do you prefer ford or holden?
Whats your favorite colour and why?
What do you think the opposition thinks of your choice of favorite colour?
Do you prefer blondes or brunettes?
The “debate” was a waste of time.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I don’t think anyone would argue that Clark is the better oraltor, but Key will evolve. The key difference is Labour’s focus on the past (and what have we got to show??) vs Key’s focus on the future. Its simple really…If you keep doing the same thing, you’ll keep getting the same results. This country needs a major shake-up, if only to stimulate and excite the minds of the young.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I’ve posted a review of the debate over at my blog and it’s very critical of the two leaders.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Clark = Tweedledum – Key = Tweedledee
My Party Vote? After being an undecided voter for the entire election campaign?
Leaning (with 72 hours to go) towards ACT.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
I admit it was probably the first debate where I wasn’t muttering that Helen should shut the f*%k up. The most interesting question was from Espiner about which leader has broken the law. Key drove on a carless day (Mike Williams, why did you not find that out with the vast sums of taxpayers money to be sprayed around at your disposal you useless sack of shite!) and Helen said she had a few speeding tickets …
err … Helen, I would have thought the $800k you nicked from all taxpayers in 2005 and for which you actually had to pass retrospective legislation to make un-illegal was a rather big “law breaking” matter. Fuck your “speeding tickets”, certain officers took that rap anyway, you are New Zealand’s biggest unprosecuted thief.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
The MSM have showed their true colours by calling the debate to Clark as apparently she showed heart.
If they were doing their job they would actually be reporting her as a cynical bitch who has flip flopped at the end of the campaign because the sour personal attacks aren’t working.
Party vote National
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
JK murdered the PM on the flip-flops question. He fessed up, reinforced his current position and moved on. HC couldn’t give one example and use it to her advantage. How much bigger list of flip-flops did she need to be able to capitalise on just one of them?
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Raider – doesnt matter if she won by a nose (as Armstrong ) said – she needed a knockout blow.
Vote:didnt happen.
bye bye reds
November 5th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
double d
The apologists will be calling it a knock out, Chris Trotter called it as; “The Leaders Debate: Clark by a nose” last TV1 debate.
I wait with great anticipation for his call on this one.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Maybe Burt, but Trotter’s “nose” is firmly planted up Hlen’s ass. So lets not worry about that failed commie’s views.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
More like they’d both been watching McCain (and I really wish his whole campaign was like that gracious and human concession) and Obama and decided that they really wanted to lift their game, or look like pond scum by comparison tomorrow.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
when a man grows old
and his balls turn cold
and the end of his cock turns blue
and it bends in the middle
like a one string fiddle
he can tell a tale or two…
like the one about dead eye john and grumpy hel-on
who set off to rule the land….
the debate was dull. i am tired of this and wish i never had to look at stern old helen or michael cullen, the useless accountant, ever again…
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Rich Prick
The
Labour partyStandard has called it as Clark makes it 2 from 3.Muppets.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
i have no interest in anything trotter says.
Vote:coudnt give a rats arse about his delusional viws of the world
November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
im reading headlines like “leaders save their best to last debate”??? was shite.
just readin the analysis… Key shows much more emapthy than clarke.. she kinda smiles, shows her tooth and thats it. theres no emapthy there at all.. the things a robot.
National have this thing won.. all they need to do now is get brownlee on tv more to secure the chick vote.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
And I’d have been a damn sight more impressed if one or both of them responded to the religion question with, “When I’m standing for religious rather than political office, that’s a matter of public interest. Until then, I live in a pluralistic society where citizenship doesn’t depend on where — or if — you worship. I’ll answer any questions about policy, but you should address spiritual ones to a theologian or the religious leader of your choice.”
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
can’t wait to see what lemon sucking brian edwards has to say on tv1, cutting, incisive news outlet that it is….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
When HC enters my mind, all I think of is a half chewed Minty…….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Whafe – bulldog chewing a wasp….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Hear you there, then hearing Mzzz Clarks B Ed Wod commenting on the One Post Debate Special how well she did and that she has been judged hard on the previous 2 debates….. What a waste of space that clown pants is…
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
The polls are rigged, get a grip Mr Ed Wod
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
whafe….turn it off and go to bed. brian is seeing little green men….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I hear you Tuglatonic… Over and out….
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Brian Edwards is a laugh & a half, especially this stuff about Peter Davis, and the stacking of polls.
At least Boag is trying to be unbiased, he’s lost the plot & gone feral.
He won’t see that he’s wrong, I swear I could hear sniggers at one stage from the other panelists when he was going on about how Helen won it by far & the poll was rigged.
I don’t think he’s ever learnt to accept he’s wrong sometimes
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
WTF was TVone doing getting Mr Ed Wod to comment. He said the viewers poll was rigged. He says it’s not fair that Labour got caught trying to dig dirt when National was doing the same thing!
Actually a friend of mine said it was astounding how Peter Davis never seems to get turned down for his funding proposals and has garnered hundreds and hundreds of thousands of public funding over the years.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
To Brian Edwards:
Diddums you tired old socialist boot licking hack.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Michelle looks good… I like her.
Vote:Edwards…… Never liked him since 1975 when I saw him on TV at the squash club teaching men how to not pre-ejaculate
November 5th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Boag had it right though. The poll reflects the attitude of people who are interested in watching tv debates.
People seem to think that 100% of voters (or a representative sample of that 100%) are watching this debate. They aren’t. A skewed version is. The polls reflect that skewed sample’s take on the two leaders (not necessarily their debating skills).
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Well well well, I thought the debate was bad but the ANALysis was even worse, TVNZ is a flippin joke!!
Vote:The first place Key should slash govt spending is the idiots running the idiot box.
Good grief
November 5th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
A question needs be asked though……
Vote:Did Edwards coach Clark today as he always used too?
November 5th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Has anyone else noticed how Labour’s attack ads on TV seem to outnumber all other political advertising? There were even running in the ad breaks during the debate and analysis!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
From debate #1, we’ve seen HC model #1/#2/#3. With JK, we’ve seen model #1 throughout. No need to modify.
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Southern Raider “Why hasn’t someone got the balls to say that this Climate Change shit is just crap.”
This Climate Change shit is just crap… I’ve been saying it for ages!
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Re Edwards he hasn’t been on TV much since the night years ago that Rodney Hide came him a good bitch slapping…..
Vote:November 5th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
What were the scores on the doors please?
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Labour has now locked in a convincing defeat.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 3:18 am
Haven’t bothered loading up the debates via the TVNZ website and watching, seems from the comments here it was bit of a fizzer.
Anyway, after reading the comments on here about Clark’s style in the debate, I bet all that are speculating about the focus group feedback telling Labour that the negativity is turning people away, are spot on.
Therefore, what’s the bet that clark will pull the next install of secret tapes and won’t run with it, fearing another momentous backlash?
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 7:04 am
What about Brian Edwards at the end, National rigged the polls I thought Labour where the experts at that sort of thing. And also National digging for dirt on Peter Davis Edwards had his knickers in a knot.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 7:05 am
“Therefore, what’s the bet that clark will pull the next install of secret tapes and won’t run with it, fearing another momentous backlash?”
Won’t that be fun. She couldn’t stop Fat Boy Williams and she’ll not stop Red Tie Garner making further muntahs of themselves – and she’ll pay the price, the first time she’s ever had to take responsibility for her malicious actions.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 7:31 am
1) I think the debate was ‘nicer’ partly because it included questions like ‘will you work together’ ‘do you like each other’ etc.
I actually thought one party could appear to be reaching across the aisles by saying they could do a grand coalition just they thought it was unlikely. National for example could say yeah we could do it but labour would obviously need to be the junior partner.
2) I thought Helen fumbled the “flip flop’ question pretty badly.
3) Trotter’s “The Leaders Debate: Clark by a nose” reminds me of Jordans daily analysis that labour can never loose…
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Does that mean the boys at the VDS will be pulling finger at the behest of the 9th floor and keeping there mouths shut up until polls close on Saturday?
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:03 am
The Herald poll today asks who won the debate:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/
It’s early days but 80% think Johnny won….
PS: Don’t tell Dr Edwards, he’s mad as hell and cannot take it anymore!
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Can’t even trust Helen to stick to her campaign plan now.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Wonder if Dunky and Kees have had the call from the 9th floor of the Beehive yet about releasing no more tape recordings?
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Keez has finaly been outed http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-2008/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501799&objectid=10541397
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Re Keizer I’ve given him a well deserved ribbing on my blog:
http://lindsayaddie.blogspot.com/2008/11/exposed-taper-fesses-up.html
Named him as wally of the week!
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:24 am
At least he doesn’t look a bit smug or arrogant!
Yeah Right!
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 8:52 am
The commies are bitter that their dirty tricks campaign has failed and they know they are going to lose – perhaps by a large margin if a few ‘safe’ labour seats go to the MP or the Nats.
Bye bye left wing teat sucklers – get used to dwindling public purse handouts (yes thats you pr, media type consultants).
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I thought the campaign was about trust ?????
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Yeah, as in Sledge Hammer, the 80′s cop comdedy (or is that keystone cops?)
“Trust me, I know what I’m doing” says hulun/sledge hammer.
NZ goes, “Yeah, right”
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Lindsay Addie (793) Vote: 1 0 Says:
November 6th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Re Keizer I’ve given him a well deserved ribbing on my blog:
http://lindsayaddie.blogspot.com/2008/11/exposed-taper-fesses-up.html
Named him as wally of the week!
Hoist with his own petard
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 9:40 am
“She does look very pleased with herself and thats cos she’s been snogging H2 in the green room
[DPF: 20 demerits]
That was harsh on Peanut. By snogging he probably meant she had got a de-briefing from H2.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Lindsay Addie (793) Vote: 1 0 Says:
November 6th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Re Keizer I’ve given him a well deserved ribbing on my blog:
http://lindsayaddie.blogspot.com/2008/11/exposed-taper-fesses-up.html
Named him as wally of the week!
Hung by his own petard
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 11:13 am
DPF – 20 demerits yourself.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Frank – don’t want to be picky but it is ‘hoisted by one’s own petard’. A petard was a breaching charge that engineers in olden times would rush up and attach to doors and walls. Sometimes they went off prematurely, hence the expression.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Yes, it was a bit harsh. I have read worse in these posts, but will take it on the chin!!
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 11:32 am
———————————————————————
“She does look very pleased with herself and thats cos she’s been snogging H2 in the green room”
[DPF: 20 demerits]
That was harsh on Peanut. By snogging he probably meant she had got a de-briefing from H2.
———————————————————————
To be fair, he could have disguised it a little better and said something witty like “H2 gave her a tongue-lashing”
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Also, just a point of clarification. Peanut is a she not a he.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Brian Smaller (445) Vote: 2 0 Says:
November 6th, 2008 at 9:40 am
“She does look very pleased with herself and thats cos she’s been snogging H2 in the green room
[DPF: 20 demerits]
That was harsh on Peanut. By snogging he probably meant she had got a de-briefing from H2.
Yeah DPF, why so sensitive about that?
Vote:If the comment had been Winston was snogging Tommy or John was snogging Bill would that have warrented the demerit points?
For some one so opposed to the Greens banning policy, why so harsh on this one?
Is the posibility of it happening reason enough to over react?
November 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
re:Brian Edwards whinging about National rigging the text polls last night.
Below is a text myself, and a lot of other people, received last night from a key member of the Labour campaign team – from what im told the first text out when to hundreds:
“Urgent: TV1 Leaders debate on tonight. Remember to show yr support and text “CLARK” now to 8899 and pass this msg on. 2 ticks for trust this Saturday”
Makes Brian seem a little hypocritical and to be honest a down right liar.
Vote:November 6th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Tyler…
And Labour did the Nats an enormous favour by putting the gnome on TV last night. Who’s dumb idea was that!
He’s such a poisonous little bugger, and stupid to boot. For explaining the tech details of how to rig phone-in polls and have Boag sweetly point out that he’d just trapped himself. How on earth didn’t he see that coming? Oh joy…
Vote: