Hypocrisy from the Greens
November 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am by David FarrarFrog is complaining that National has ditched the panel that was set up by Labour and the Greens to get them state funding of political parties.
Labour appointed the panel, without any consultation with National. This was inappropriate. In fact Green co-leader Russel Norman blogged that he agreed with me such appointments should not just be made by the Government of the Day.
If you and you mates act in a blatant self serving partisan manner, don’t be surprised when the new Government doesn’t feel any need to respect those decisions.
Personally I am a fan of citizen’s juries having a role to play in electoral issues. But the experts panels that advise such juries must not be unilaterally selected by the Government of the Day. By doing so, you can almost guarantee the outcome – and that is what the Greens and Labour tried to do – set up a process that would introduce their cherished dream of full taxpayer funding.
November 29th, 2008 at 10:44 am
A nice change to see National moving to implement a promise that was part of its manifesto.
With the other mob it was the reverse.
As for the Greens, they wouldn’t know the difference.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Russel Norman is the Greens. ‘frog’ is *not* the Greens. Hyprocrisy from a Green, yes.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 10:53 am
National promised to repeal the EFA, so there’s no need for the panel. Hopefully this a portent of promises kept.
The croaking Greens on Frogblog remind me of cane toads: poisonous, repulsive, and a menace to everyone. The only good cane toad is a dead cane toad.
http://www.kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
stephen “Russel Norman is the Greens. ‘frog’ is *not* the Greens. Hyprocrisy from a Green, yes.”
click on the link – under the banner you will read “a political blog from the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand” I think thats a reasonable claim to be speaking on behalf of *the* Green Party.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 11:12 am
The so called “Greens” so often use the language of the Stalinists-
Quote
“The Green Party initiative to have electoral reform reviewed and managed by a citizens’ jury”
Unquote
“Citizens’ jury” is commie code for kangaroo courts stacked with extreme left party aparachiks, and they’re all hell bent on using government legislation to steal as much or your money and my money as they can to support their propaganda campaigns. The chance of such a “jury” coming out with a nay verdict on state funding would be zero. Damn frauds.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 11:16 am
If they’re only ‘complaining’ now – they’ll be absolutely squealing like stuck pigs in another year or so. LOL!!!!!!!!
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 11:20 am
“A nice change to see National moving to implement a promise that was part of its manifesto.”
Knowing how completely in love you are with the Nats, I’m sure you meant to write “government” there and not “National”.
That said, I hope that the Nats do take the the initiative, and start dismantling all of the organs of power that the left have put in place. The left use government to expand their power base. Its up to National while they’re in government to dismantle as much of that expanded power base as possible.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 11:25 am
You’d think so Hagues, but frog repeatedly stresses that the views he expresses are not necessarily the Greens’ unless specifically stated (e.g. x policy is good because…), but of course he *does* work for the Greens.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Whats wrong with ‘user pays’ let the tosser lefties put all the union subs up from $6/week to $100/week to pay for their latest plans for a revolution and see how many of the comrades are still willing to put their money where their mouths are.
Vote:Bet they would all become good sensible little capitalists straight away once they realised the price of revolution was no beer, fags or gambling.
November 29th, 2008 at 11:33 am
“but of course he *does* work for the Greens.”…out of the Greens’ offices.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Redbaiter … happy to amend to Government if that’s going to make your day (and technically I guess the move was a Government initiative) but I wasn’t aware that the National/ACT/UF/MP coalition arrangement extended to the issuing of a combined manifesto.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
We must eradicate from the country immediately these hypercritical – hairy fairy – Utopian hyperbolic crap merchants and replace them with common sense and practical blue greens.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
We just about did that Dad at the election it is just a definition now of what does ‘eradication’ mean. Shooting them is OK by me but I think the rest of NZ would whinge about it. So I suggest a user pays policy for all political parties and eradication of the lefties would still be certain just slower cause no sensible bastard would waste a dollar on them. I really get a kick out of seeing that sad little commie wanker Norman getting his contrived seat in parliament and more members and still being completely impotent because of his pathetic communist last century politics. Don’t forget he was their stratigest too so all the blame for their present predictament rests on his sloping little shoulders.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
When will the Greens see that the best road to environmentalism is through economic growth, not away from it?
Only when we have factories running at full capacity and business expanding as fast as they can will the environment be safe.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Another didums moment brought to you by the voters of New Zealand who opted for a functional deomocracy.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
National are now taking away all chance of having a citizens jury completely. Not getting one that involves everybody. No jury. Now praising citizens juries while doing away with them, THAT’S hypocrisy.
Oh, and scrapping the idea of having an academic panel too. No pointy headed people who study these issues every day having a say. None of that “book learning” around here.
I see National setting up a process that minimises involvement from the public completely. And it stinks.
[DPF: George your party voted for a law that was oppossed by almost every member of the public, and shit everyone out of the debate. The Greens never once insisted on a public policy process. The replacement to the EFA will I am sure give the public far far more of a chance to have their say than they got under Labour and the Greens]
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Right on there george look where the professional-pointy-head-political-studies-mob have got us to under Helens rule.
Vote:There will be plenty of public input it just won’t be solely your sort of public.
November 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Bullshit. Pure and utter bullshit.
A citizens jury, as done internationally, and as endorsed by the Greens, is selected in the same way as a normal jury – randomly selecting people from the electoral roll. You’re either ignorant, or deliberately misleading.
Oh, and putting out the press release stating this on 4pm on a Friday. A crucial change to the legislation that will determine the electoral process. And it’s put out at the well known ‘kill the story hour’. And you want to talk about bad faith?
[DPF: National made it clear before the election it would not continue with the panel. if the Green had for once in their lives stood up to Labour on electoral issues and insisted on bipartisan or multipartisan input into the composition of the panel, then it may have survived. You have only yourselves to blame]
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
“and as endorsed by the Greens”
a nice simple way of identifying a stupid idea.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
No, we have National to blame.
National is free to allow the selection of a jury of citizens, but is choosing not to.
I’m sorry, but blaming the Greens for decisions that the present National Government is making (when they have a clear mandate to start with a clean slate, and make this a non-partisan issue) is the height of hypocrisy.
[DPF: The Greens are totally to blame. Their record has been shameful. For a start this citizens jury wasn't to reform the EFA. It had two very narrow jobs - to obtain state funding for Labour and the Greens, and to review the organisation of electoral agencies. State funding is off the agenda (I hope) and it is stupid to review the organisation of agencies until you have reviewed the law. I suggest you go read how narrow the panel and jury's mandate was]
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
One thing is clear. The decisions will be made by politicians, the people we can least trust with electoral reform.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
georgedarroch “I’m sorry, but blaming the Greens for decisions that the present National Government is making (when they have a clear mandate to start with a clean slate, and make this a non-partisan issue) is the height of hypocrisy.”
No one is blaming the Greens for National’s decision. We are pointing out that the Green’s complaining that National have scraped the Green/Labour policy is just bullshit.
Oh and by the way as you point out National have a clear mandate to start with a clean slate – this means that they can and should wipe every partisan policy that the Greens/Labour (&NZF) forced on us, including the stupid ‘citizens jury.’
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
georgedarroch …. your rant, cant and hypocrisy certainly sits well with your Labour masters.
The way in which your mob implemented the Act precludes you from criticising something that voters endorsed by their overwhelming endorement of the National led Government’s intention to consign the EFA to the dustbin of history.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
George I don’t want to repeat the famous words of ‘Rich Prick’ Cullen but you are just going to have to eat it.
Vote:Your lot backed the wrong horse and like many a punter you must realise there is no prize for coming third when the field is so small.
Not only that you tried to swap the old grey mare for that flashy Aussie chestnut halfway through the race in spite of the fact that if he was any good he would be winning big time in Oz not racing in the small fields over here. That should tell you something about his pedigree.
Just be thankful that we now have an enlightened and fair leading runner in Godzone replacing the previous old nag and if you make some wiser bets in the future who knows you may pick up some crumbs from the table. Lets face it you won fuck all from the last lot.
November 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
George, the Greens’ refusal to acknowledge their mistake in becoming a critical player in the long-running anti-democratic process that was the EFA, rather disqualifies you people from critiquing any actions taken to reverse the course. You appear to be anticipating that others will act in a similar way to yourselves. Why don’t you wait and see?
The regretably low standards you applied to yourselves during this saga exposed the real motives behind your party to all thinking people in this land. You’re going to have to work rather hard to rebuild any trust you may have had and I recommend the first thing you do is either admit you were wrong or provide an explanation as to why you think that you acted with integrity throughout this matter.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
We had a citizens jury on 8 November. The citizens decided to consign the EFA to the rubbish bin, and to take steps to prevent Labour and the Greens corrupting the electoral system in the future.
The citizens have decided. Get over it!
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Silly leftists, don’t they know that only ACT is entitled to public funding?
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
“and as endorsed by the Greens”
What endorsement? They did not care on bit about a “citizen’s jury” when it counted, when the Left held power. They, along with Labour, rammed this radical assault on democracy and free speech down the citizen’s throats despite massive public opposition because they thought it would silence critics of the Left and keep a Labour/Green coalition in power for decades. Now suddenly they are concerned with a citizen’s jury.
Utter, rank, self-serving hypocrisy.
As davidp points out, we have had a citizen’s jury on Nov 8, and the Left were well and truly put in their place by the citizen’s.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I know some of the people involved, and a more stupid pack of leftist, biased gits you will not find anywhere else on the globe.
If you wanted intelligent people on the panel, why on earth would you appoint an academic?
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Complete and utter bullshit from Mr George Darroch. The Greens quite deliberately set up the “Jury”, unelected, selected by the most hypocritical party in parliament, purely and simply to give them the answer that was to be dictated to the jury by those who appointed them.
If any member of that jury HAD had any sense of morality, they would have refused to serve in such a partisan way, that’s the answer to the Greens.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Just shows how ‘Reality Aware’ the Greens were to hitch a ride with a manifestly corrupt Administration.
They lost, and actually under MMP it was the Green’s banning mania that actually sunk Labour.
It is always the shoelaces that trip up, and cause power blocs to fail.
Fantastically, in the ‘Human Condition’ we choose, or unwittingly think about good memories!
That is why we have already forgotten the Cockroaches that tried to rule our lives.
Bastards
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“You’re either ignorant, or deliberately misleading.”
None of those, I merely know to never trust the left. They will commit any immorality for power.
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
George Daroch:
Stinks you say?
National can hardly be criticised for doing exactly what it said it’d do. Bill English had this to say in September (before the election):
You could always educate yourself by reading National’s electoral law policy here:
So National is on record as saying the public will be involved – the manner of involvement is, no doubt, yet to be finally determined. But anything will be a quantum improvement on the disgraceful way the Electoral Finance Act was ram-shackled through Parliament without proper public consultation.
And, George, while you’re there:
So National will hold a binding referendum on MMP by no later than 2011. What was your point about minimal public involvement again, George?
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Oh, for the benefit of other readers, here is the link to the “terms of reference and membership of expert panel to review electoral administration and political party funding”.
Those terms include:
Hmmm… sounds like Labour and the Greens were on to a winner with those terms of reference. What do you say, George Darroch?
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Think you are a Green voter? Take the teast…. http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
“Hypocrisy from the Greens”
… yes, … and …
Vote:November 29th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
What a shame.
I presume the 3 academics that were to lead the love in were left leaners and I assume ‘trusted’ to select a citizens forum of 70 that was to debate the EFA.
Fuck me, an EFA redesigned by a committee of 70 stooges – theres a design to ensure fuck all gets changed.
At a budgeted cost of approx $5 million!
Nice one Labour & Greens. Now fuck off and stop whining.
Vote:November 30th, 2008 at 12:56 am
The Broadcast Act needs a serious look out as well. End the ridiculous limits on how much air time a party is allowed to run adverts for on Television.
Vote:November 30th, 2008 at 1:47 am
“DPF: George your party voted for a law … and shit everyone out of the debate.”
Indeed!
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 8:09 am
But there point here is that Mr Farrar doesn’t like the fact that fully taxpayer-funded election campaigns would reduce the power of the ultra-rich (his party’s mates) to buy elections, and leave power in that hands of those that democracy’s fore-fathers intended – the people.
Farrar’s response to this (and his rabid dog’s) will be:
“no, no – i just don’t want my money to go towards filthy pollies”. Trouble with that argument is that it would only cost about $4-5 million i.e. less than 0.1% of government spending – and perhaps a couple of cents out of david farrar’s wallet. In this case david farrar’s whole argument rests on the fact that he can’t be fucked paying 2-5 cents to take the undemocratic influence of the monied. At this point you know that farrar is talking out his arse – and his real resons for opposing a better democracy lie else where ….
[DPF: How pathethic is it that you have to invent an argument for me, just so you can pretend to sucessfully rebut it. Truly sad]
Vote:December 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 am
Actually i was condensing an argument that has been made by those on the right here many times before – and i’m sure it’s a sentiment you’ve expressed as well.
Vote: