President Obama
Despite my disagreement with some of his policies, I find the highly likely election of Barack Obama to the Presidency of the United States a thrilling event. Never has an election been so symbolic of change, but also carrying such huge expectations for the future.
In one’s lifetime, you witness a handful of seminal events. For me they have been the day the Berlin Wall came down and September 11. The election of an African-American to the United States Presidency may join that league.
It is not only the fact that the US once had slavery that makes his election remarkable. Those days were many generations ago. But just a few decades ago the US had wide-spread segregation. It shows the remarkable ability of some cultures and societies to change that within a lifetime you can go from a country where blacks are segregated as second class citizens to having a black man elected President.
The United States is far from perfect, but if you have to choose one country in the world to be the super-power, I am damn glad it is the United States. There are many great things about the country – the constitution, the bill of rights, term limits, massive inwards immigration, the ability of poor immigrants to rise to the top etc etc.
This doesn’t stop relentless America bashing as if it was the most evil country on the planet. People would have you think it was a white Christian fundamentalist country that causes poverty in Africa, demonises Muslims and is controlled by a military industrial cabal that keeps Bush and Cheney in power forever. The fact that the Republicans are about to get trounced should silence the conspiracy fanatics for a while about Bush and Diebold stealing elections.
The symbolism of Obama’s election is massive. This half Kenyan American managed to beat both the Clinton machine and the Republican machine to win the most powerful job in the world.
Obama is not Muslim, but his father was and he attended a Muslim school for a couple of years growing up in Asia. His middle name is Hussein. That should make it a lot harder for the forces of jihad to gain supporters in their war against the United States and western civilisation more generally. Unless they call him an apostate, he is a much harder figure to demonise.
The election of Obama will be a profund display to the world, that for all its faults, the United States is a country that can put race and prejudice to one side – maybe not everyone – but most of them. If I had to use a local comparison I would cite the election of Georgina Beyer as MP for Wairarapa in 1999. Again, I may not have supported Beyer’s politics, but I thought it was a great tribute to NZers that they would elect who they saw as the best person to be an MP, even though they were a transexual who went from being a man to a woman. Having said that, I don’t think Obama is a Beyer – he has shown himself to be a truly accomplished politician and gifted orator. I recall blogging before the 2004 election that I thought he would be President one day.
So Obama has a great opportunity ahead of him. He will have an extended honeymoon from the media, from his public and from much of the world. He may be able to do more to defeat anti-Americanism than any otehr person or event.
But with great opportunity comes great risk. Many of his supporters, both domestically and internationally, see him as above politics. And he is not. He will, as President, have to make decision that will not sit well with some people. And the greater the expectation the greater the disappointment. Will people understand when he still has troops in Iraq in 18 months time? Will they understand when the US still does not sign the Kyoto Treaty?
And most of all, what will happen when he may have to pull the trigger, as Bill English put it. Countries like Iran may seek to test Obama. Will he allow them to develop nuclear weapons? What will he do when North Korea reneges on its agreement to cease nuclear testing? Foreign Policy is often a case of choosing the least worst alternative.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Hang on, the guys are still calling it for McCain in the last thread.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
“Never has an election been so symbolic of change, but also carrying such huge expectations for the future”
I cannot believe Mr. Farrar you would write that. Obama brings nothing new. He is a step back into the past, leading the US into the same socialist mire as has dragged down every country wherever and whenever he and his kind have become politically ascendant. The view that Obama is the wind of change blowing through the US may be quite correct, but it is not a new and refreshing wind, it is the stale and stifling odour of Marxism and collectivism. Just wait till the millions of cubic feet of air freshener applied by the main stream media, those communist propagandists dies away. The stench arising from the rotting corpse of democracy will become unbearable.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Your post indicates that your enthusiasm is based on the symbolism of a black President. Understandable, and who wouldnt feel that way to some extent. But that is not good enough. I suspect he will win because he is black. Any white aspirant with his limited credentials and dubious associates would not have a chance. As somebody wrote recently: “It is not the fact that he is black that bothers me; it is that he is so green”.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Hey! Just yesterday the DomPost carried a story where they spoke to a woman whose father was born a slave.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Identity politics Mr Farrar – the bane of good government.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:05 am
A bit premature I think David.
McCain can still win the presidency.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Biden is already on record saying Team Obama expects Obama to be tested earlier rather than later. My guess is they’re thinking of Russia. The clerics will ditch Armadinajad who didn’t even compare favourably with Bush let alone with Obama. North Korea will stick by and large to the arrangements with Bush.
But Russia wants to challenge the US, Georgia was just the begining. And Obama favours Georgia joining NATO.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Obama has less executive experience than Sarah Palin.
If Obama makes president then much jocularity will ensue.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Sorry but I don’t see any POSITIVES for the USA or the rest of the world if this black man gets elected.
Left-wingers and sucked in centrists from all around the world WANT this man to win…shouldn’t that be a WARNING?
Enthusing the way you have over this DPF, has made seriously rethink my loyalty to this blog.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:12 am
“The Closing Argument”
By John Perazzo
November 3, 2008
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printindividualProfile.asp?indid=2336
“Barack Obama has now delivered his nationally televised “closing argument” summarizing the supposed justifications for electing him to be the next President.
Following is a compelling argument against electing him. It is an argument founded on a thorough analysis of Obama’s record vis a vis the votes he has cast, the positions he has taken, and the promises he has made during the course of his entire political career—eight years in the Illinois state senate and four years in the U.S. Senate (of which the last two years, incidentally, were spent almost entirely on campaigning for the presidency rather than on attending to any legislative duties—as evidenced by the very large number of votes for which he was not present during that period).
This document will look also at several of Obama’s alliances that are of immense significance, examining the nature of those relationships and the reasons why they are so important.
If you, the reader, are already aware of the considerations discussed herein and you intend nevertheless to vote for Barack Obama, your decision is to be respected. In the marketplace of ideas, we are not all required to select items from the same shelves.
But perhaps you are an Obama supporter who is unaware of many or most of the things discussed in this document. If that is the case—as it probably is—the information contained herein is likely to have a profound influence on your measure of Mr. Obama. It is for your consideration that this is written.
You may approach this document in either of two ways. You may, as is recommended, start at the beginning of the narrative and read it through to the end. But if you prefer, you may also click on those particular subheadings that most interest you, and read them in any sequence you wish.
Table of Contents:
Obama’s Major Alliances, Affiliations, and Influences
* William Ayers: “Someone Who Lives in My Neighborhood”
* Bernardine Dohrn: Another ex-Terrorist. Marxist Political Ally
* Pro-Soviet Political Ally: Alice Palmer
* Attending the Socialist Scholars Conferences
* Saul Alinsky: The Marxist Who Was Obama’s Strongest Enduring Influence
* ACORN: Socialists and Criminals with Longstanding Ties to Obama
* Fannie Mae and Obama
* Endorsement by the Democratic Socialists of America
* Alliance with the Marxist “New Party”
* Alliance with Carl Davidson, Marxist
* Obama Cites Arafat/PLO Supporter, Rashid Khalidi, As Voice of Reason
* Obama’s Pro-Arafat Political Advisor
* Another Obama Associate Who Sees Israel’s Creation As a “Catastrophe”
* Obama’s Alliance with Multi-Billionaire George Soros, and Why It Matters so Greatly
* Louis Farrakhan
* Rev. Jeremiah Wright
* Rev. Otis Moss
* Rev. Michael Pfleger
* Cornel West (Marxist) and Obama’s Black Advisory Council
* Rev. Al Sharpton
* Khalid al-Mansour
* Political Alliance with MoveOn.org
* Political Alliance with an Advocate of Reparations for Slavery
* Obama’s Lies about His Muslim Upbringing As a Child
Issues and Perspectives
* Redistribution of Wealth
* Abortion
* Immigration
* Energy Policy
* Taxes
* Foreign Policy
* Homeland Security / War on Terror
* Should Terror Suspects Be Tried by Military Commissions (or by Civilian Courts)?
* Habeas Corpus for Detained Terror Suspects?
* Military / Missile Defense / Weapons Systems
* The War in Afghanistan
* The Iraq War
* Education
* Busing and Race-Conscious Admissions Policies
* Affirmative Action
* Constitution / Supreme Court
* Environment
* Same-Sex Marriage
* Racial Gerrymandering of Voting Districts
* Welfare Reform
* Earmarks
* Criminal Justice
* Gender Discrimination
* Foreign Aid
* Foreign Contributions to Obama’s Presidential Campaign
* Obama Likens Aspects of America to Nazi Germany
Conclusion……….”
THAT’S THE “HEADER”……..the whole thing is 69 pages long………..
November 5th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Good post David. Why spare us Phil? Where”s the other 68 pages?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Annoy the Media: Go Vote
And the “Common Sense Effect”
By Newt Gingrich
“Today marks the end of one of the most dishonest, relentlessly one-sided campaigns of bias and distortion by the mainstream media in American history.
The latest tactic in this elite media campaign has been to declare the presidential race over in an effort to discourage some voters from going to the polls. After all, if Barack Obama has already won, why should supporters of John McCain even bother to vote?
But this election won’t be decided by Keith Olbermann, or CNN, or the New York Times.
It will be decided by you.
So annoy the mainstream media. Remember 2000. Remember how close it was. Remember how every single vote counted.
Our Choice Today Doesn’t Have Anything to Do With Race
But I have another theory to describe the choice Americans face in this election — call it the Common Sense Effect.
The choice we face today doesn’t have anything to do with race. It has to do with which candidate believes in wealth creation and which one believes in wealth redistribution.
Which candidate believes in limited, effective government, and which candidate believes in unrestrained, liberal, big government.
Which candidate believes that the hard work and ingenuity of incentivized Americans can solve our energy needs, and which candidate believes that government taxation, regulation and litigation is the way to go.
It’s critical that this point be made now, before the results are in: If Senator Obama loses the election today, it won’t have anything to do with the so-called Bradley Effect. It will have everything to do with the Common Sense Effect.
Senator Obama in His Own Words: “If Someone Wants to Build a Coal Power Plant ….It Will Bankrupt Them”
But don’t take my word for it. Take Senator Obama’s word for it.
Consider the choice that faces us today on the issue of America’s energy independence. And consider Senator Obama’s recently uncovered statements about how he would solve this problem……
“……In the same interview, Senator Obama went on to say:
“Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket…even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad, because I’m capping greenhouse gasses, coal power plants, natural gas…you name it…whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retro-fit their operations. That will cost money…they will pass that money on to the consumers.”
“……Senator Obama’s idea of solving our energy problems seems to be to inflict pain upon American consumers — and to pronounce a death sentence on American producers of coal in states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia.
When Senator Obama off-handedly and arrogantly talks about bankrupting the coal industry, he’s talking about bankrupting entire communities; shutting down the industry that produces the jobs and the tax revenue that fund schools, hospitals and roads.
These are Senator Obama’s own words, spoken 10 months ago to the mainstream media but only now being heard thanks to the work of independent bloggers.
This is the choice we face today.
We Don’t Know Which Candidate Will Win, But We Know the Mainstream Media Has Already Lost
I began my message to you today noting that coverage of this election has been among the most dishonest and one-sided by the mainstream media in American history.
We don’t yet know which candidate won the election, but we do know this: The mainstream media lost.
The examples of bias and distortion that have occurred are too numerous to list here.
Suffice to say that when a supposedly unbiased media organization polls its staffers, and the vote is 55 to 1, something is deeply wrong.
When honest reporters are embarrassed to admit that they’re journalists, something is wrong.
When the nonpartisan Project for Excellence in Journalism finds that negative articles about John McCain outweigh positive pieces by four-to-one, and positive pieces about Barack Obama outweigh negative pieces by two-to-one, something is deeply wrong.
Going forward, center-right and conservative Americans will have to work even harder to reclaim the media and to create new ways to communicate with our fellow Americans that bypass the mainstream media. We’ve already had some significant successes, including this newsletter…..”
November 5th, 2008 at 10:18 am
> Will they understand when the US still does not sign the Kyoto Treaty?
I’m sure they will understand. Big business does not want Kyoto and big business makes large donations to the Democrats and Republicans. That doesn’t happen, it’s fair to say, out of a sense of altruism.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Dear God PhilBest, Saul Alinsky wasn’t a Marxist. He was a very talented and inventive community organiser. Hillary Clinton did her senior thesis on him.
“Rules for Radicals” is a great book, there’s nothing extreme Left about it, just community empowerment.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am
“The symbolism of Obama’s election is massive. This half Kenyan American managed to beat both the Clinton machine and the Republican machine to win the most powerful job in the world.”
I just can’t believe I’m reading this. The man is a crook and a charlatan backed by gangsters terrorist and communists, and funded by international groups who desire to see the US emasculated as a world power. Obama’s election is a disaster for freedom. Anybody who truly values individual liberty and democracy should be outraged at the way the American electorate has been hoodwinked and the electoral system has been defrauded to allow this crook to become the Democrat presidential candidate. Anyone who truly values liberty must understand what a disaster to our cause it wil be if this Hitlerian deceiver wins the US presidency. You say he beat the Clinton machine. He did, and its one example of the crooked means he has used to get where he is today-
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To: The Honorable Michael B. Mukasey Attorney General U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530-001
Dear Chair Derby:
I write on behalf of Hillary Clinton for President (”the Committee”) in regard to the January 19, 2008 Nevada Democratic Caucus. The Committee is aware of a letter addressed to you today from the Obama for America campaign requesting an inquiry into the conduct of the caucuses. The Committee shares the Obama campaign’s concern that full participation in the democratic process may have been compromised by the substantial number of irregularities occurring at the caucuses, and we fully support a complete inquiry by the Nevada State Democratic Party (the ”Party”) into all caucus improprieties.
This letter is not intended as a response to the Obama campaign’s letter. However, in the interest of a complete record, and in contrast to the alleged minor procedural problems noted by the Obama campaign, the Committee wishes to bring to your attention information we have received evidencing a premeditated and predesigned plan by the Obama campaign to engage in systematic corruption of the Party’s caucus procedures. Compounding this blatant distortion of the caucus rules was an egregious effort by the Obama campaign to manipulate the voter registration process in its own favor, thereby disenfranchising countless voters. Finally, the Committee has received a vast number of reliable reports of voter suppression and intimidation by the Obama campaign or its allies.
The Committee had 30 phone lines on Saturday to receive calls in its Las Vegas offices. These lines rang continuously from early morning until well after the caucuses concluded with reports from people who were victimized and who observed irregularities. The phone lines were so over-whelmed that many callers resorted to calling individual Committee staff cell phones to report that they could not get through. The Committee also received many similar calls at its national headquarters.
The Committee is confident that any investigation into the conduct of the caucuses will be thorough, fair and in the interest of insuring that future Party caucuses will be as open and democratic as possible.
Systematic Corruption of the Party’s Caucus Procedures The Committee received substantially similar reports of improprieties of such a number as to leave no conclusion but that the Obama campaign and its allies and supporters engaged in a planned effort to subvert the Party’s caucus procedures to its advantage. For example:
þ Preference cards were premarked for Obama.
þ Clinton supporters were denied preference cards on the basis that none were left, while Obama supporters at the same caucus sites were given preference cards.
þ Caucus chairs obviously supporting Obama: o Deliberately miscounted votes to favor Senator Obama. o Deliberately counted unregistered persons as Obama votes. o Deliberately counted young children as Obama votes. o Refused to accept preference cards from Clinton supporters who were at the caucus site by noon on the ground that the cards were not filled out fast enough. o Told Clinton supporters to leave prior to electing delegates.
þ Clinton supporters who arrived late were turned away from the caucus, while late Obama supporters were admitted to the caucus.
Manipulation of the Voter Registration Process Numerous reports received by the Committee demonstrate a concerted effort on the part of the Obama campaign and its supporters to prevent eligible voters supporting a candidate other than Senator Obama from caucusing. The Obama supporters complained of were acting in positions of authority at the caucus sites. Some of these reports are as follows:
þ Obama supporters wrongly informed Clinton supporters that they were not allowed to participate in the caucus if their names were not on the voter rolls. However, Obama supporters whose names did not appear on the voter rolls were permitted to register at the caucus site.
þ Obama supporters falsely informed Clinton supporters that no registration forms were available for them to register to vote at the caucus site.
þ Obama supporters wrongly told Clinton supporters who were attempting to caucus at the wrong precinct that they could not caucus at that site, while simultaneously permitting Obama supporters at the wrong precinct to participate.
þ Obama supporters were allowed to move to the front of the registration and sign-in line.
Voter Suppression and Intimidation The Committee received a substantial number of disturbing reports from voters that they had been subject to harassment, intimidation or efforts to prevent them from voting. Some of the most egregious of these complaints are described below:
þ Voters at at-large caucus sites were informed that those sites were for Obama supporters only.
þ Clinton supporters at at-large caucus sites were told that their managers would be watching them while they caucused.
þ Workers were informed that their supervisors kept lists of Clinton and Obama supporters, and were told that they could not caucus unless their name was on the list of Obama supporters.
þ Many Clinton supporters were threatened with employment termination or other discipline if they caucused for Senator Clinton.
þ Workers were required to sign a pledge card to support Obama if they wanted time off to participate in the caucus. þ Workers at one casino were offered a lavish lunch and permitted to attend and register to vote only if they agree to support Obama.
The complaints summarized above represent only a small sample of the complaints received by the Committee. With respect to each of these complaints and many more, the Committee has the names and phone numbers of those reporting these incidents and the specific precinct numbers where the incidents occurred. Upon request the Committee will share these with the Party with appropriate safeguards to protect these individuals from reprisal. On the whole, these reports show a troubling effort by the Obama campaign and its allies and supporters to advance their own campaign at the expense of the right of all Nevada Democrats to participate in the democratic process in a free, fair and open manner.
Senator Clinton and the Committee are wholly committed to ensuring that every eligible voter has his or her vote cast and counted. There is no place in the American electoral process for the types of voter suppression, intimidation and harassment systematically engaged in by the Obama campaign, its allies and supporters. Sincerely, /v
November 5th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Just take a step back and look at this recent article about how hidden race prejudice could play a major part in the voting today:
Washington – Voters may not say it out loud but pollsters back it up: racism is a lingering, significant factor in the 2008 presidential race that could elect the first black American to the White House.
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama has consistently portrayed himself as the candidate of all Americans, not a champion of the African-American minority, even as he plays up how proud he is of his heritage as the son of a white woman from Kansas and a black father from Kenya.
The Illinois senator, 47, earlier this year said racism was an issue the United States could not allow itself to ignore.
But in the White House race it has been deliberately and carefully addressed in a limited way. That does not come as a surprise to many analysts.
“Race is a factor for those who would vote for and against him,” said Gary Weaver, an American University professor who leads its Intercultural Management Institute.
“I think that there are some white Americans who will not vote for a black person. It is unlikely they would admit this publicly, but they might admit this in anonymous surveys,” Weaver said.
“On the phone, racists will often deny that they are influenced by race because it is socially unacceptable. When they enter the poll booths, these people may very well vote against Obama.”
According to a recent Stanford University poll, Obama could lose six points on election day due to his colour – a troublingly price to pay for prejudice.
The United States is more than 70 percent white. About 13 percent of Americans are black, census data show, mainly descendents of slaves from West Africa, although that is not Obama’s case.
In cities and towns across the United States, however, Americans increasingly describe themselves as multiracial.
In California, for example, there is no one majority, but rather a mix of hefty minority groups of Asians, Hispanics, whites and blacks.
While many whites speak positively about blacks, the two often do not interact much and there are lingering bad feelings, the Stanford poll showed.
African Americans are statistically overrepresented among US poor. In US prisons, there are six times more blacks than whites. One African American man in 15 is behind bars.
“A very small minority of Americans would admit they are racists … perhaps the few thousand who are Neo-Nazis or KKK members,” said Weaver, referring to the white supremacist movement Ku Klux Klan.
Weaver, who is white and married an African-American woman 38 years ago shortly after mixed-race unions were legalised, noted that “the biggest gap is between older white people and young people in America.
“Young people are in support of Obama by large percentages and, if they vote, they will determine the election. Historically, the percentage of young people who vote has been lower than older white people. But, in the primaries they voted in large numbers,” he stressed.
“They went to schools that were integrated and learned that the US is supposed to be a multicultural, pluralistic society where everyone is equal. Thus, they view Obama as the obvious representative of this society.”
For Paul Herrnson, director of the Centre for American Politics and Citizenship at the University of Maryland, it is difficult to know how racial discrimination against a candidate may show up.
“Race could be an obstacle, although it is not a major issue for many Americans, it remains an issue for some, especially rural white Southerners,” he said.
“Even voters who say they were willing to vote for an African American … did otherwise in the privacy of the voting booth,” he said.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:21 am
“I cannot believe Mr. Farrar you would write that.”
As always, the arch-priest of arrested development greets reality with shocked disbelief.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Listen to the man David:
Petraeus: Commitment to War Effort Will Stand Firm, Regardless of Who Wins Presidency
Nothing symbolic in what Petraeus is saying, just cold hard reality.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Vote 1 PhilBest. We want the other 68 pages!!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Obama can certainly talk the talk, but is there any substance behind the rhetoric?
At best he could turn out to be a refreshing change of direction.
At worst he could capsise the whole country by making rash decisions and going soft on America’s enemies.
I really hope its the former, but I am still not convinced he has victory stiched up just yet.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Phil Best and others who seek the truth on Obama and his backers-
Listen to this amazing youtube audio of a caller to the Michael Savage radio show called Juan. He nails completely the fraud behind Barack Obama and the forces that have worked for his election. There are parts 1, 2 3 and 4. I downloaded them for listening as I travel, but even part 1 on its own is enlightening as it describes so accurately the naivety of Obama’s opposition within the Republicans. So similar to the National Party here. They just do not know what they’re really up against.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ryicHGLXdPs
November 5th, 2008 at 10:29 am
“Vote 1 PhilBest. We want the other 68 pages!!!!”
You spend all day criticising Phil. Must really gall you that he gets that information out right?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Obama has chosen his moment particularly well. The last eight years of Bush has set the stage for a big win for the Democrats.
The Bush administration has shown itself to be rather inept. They benefited greatly from a lackluster campaign from the Dems in 2004 where they fielded a candidate so charismatically challenged that Bush was allowed to sneak in, even though they were engaged in war. Bush at that stage was in charge of a growing economy at that could have been his saving grace.
The republicans do not have that now. There is a mood for change. The question is, which candidate embodies that mood?
You could not get further from a 65 year old Texan good ol’ boy called George than a half Kenyan man with the Middle name of Hussein!
Imagine if the republicans ran in the 50′s with a candidate called Hitler? Consider that and realise what an acheivement it is for Barack to get this far. That is to be respected regardless of your political views.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Endless amusement Redbaiter, like your good self. Some of us are a little more adept at sourcing information.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:33 am
On the subject of lengths of comments, I would suggest that people only copy a few paragraphs into a comment and provide a link for the full thing.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:34 am
“That is to be respected regardless of your political views.”
I will never respect criminal activity, especialy as it effects the democratic system. It is an abomination.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Today is a historic day for America.
It may well elect its first socialist president, unless you count Jimmy Carter.
This is far more significant than his colour.
The colour of a candidate is irrelevent.
What counts more is his experience, his vision, his beliefs, his associations, his policies.
We have the most left wing senator around in Obama based on his voting record.
We have a candidate with associations to all kinds of undesirables like William Ayres, Rev Wright, etc.
We have a candidate who has hidden much of his past.
We have a candidate implicated in mass voter fraud- be it the associations with Acorn, the corruption and intimidation his supporters used against Clinton to steal the candidacy, the unlawful donations from overseas, and the credit card donations which allowed secret donations above legal limits.
We have a candidate who achieved next to nothing in his time in senate, a candidate who was proven wholly wrong with the surge, a candidate on record as wanting to rundown Amercia’s defences.
Yet, much of this has gone without comment from the media who has been in the can for Obama, falling for its Hollywood dream of a black president. The racists have been on the left, not the right.
Today could be a bad day for America and indeed the world.
How much better would it be for us all if Amercia’s first black president was someone like Colin Powell or Condileeza Rice!
November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Jesus DPF, we’re not going to end up like that ‘other’ censored blog are we???
November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
DPF:
“There are many great things about the country – the constitution, the bill of rights, term limits, massive inwards immigration, the ability of poor immigrants to rise to the top etc etc.”
Um – you do realise that the US has one of the lowest social mobility levels amongst the OECD countries, and is consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt countries in the developed world?
Time to take those rose-tinted glasses off son.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
“Some of us are a little more adept at sourcing information.”
The “us” you speak of has always been adept at supressing information, and it is what you attempt here every day with your smears and sneers and your misplaced arrogance. You bring nothing here that hasn’t been brought by a thousand other ardent leftists who seek to discredit and destroy anyone who provides information damaging to your cause.
You don’t ever bring “information” yourself- your contributions here in almost every instance merely seek to underpin the propaganda of your mainstream media allies.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
WORD! Fairfacts Media
That’s why I was so shocked by DPF’d drooling post…thnx to you, Phil & Redbaiter for introducing some sanity back here
November 5th, 2008 at 10:41 am
that’s far too much of a generalisation. A very very small percentage of Obama supporters and most of the male-dominated liberal pundocracy behaved like complete arses towards Clinton, to say nothing of right-wing arse-wipes like Andrew Sullivan. But that had nothing to do with Obama.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:41 am
I still say that the Obama phenomenon is a cruel media hoax. It became apparent in 2004 that the “Mainstream” media had LOST the power to twist middle America to its will. It actually MATTERS now, what Matt Drudge and “Powerline” and “Free Republic” and “Human Events” and the like (God bless ‘em) say, ESPECIALLY if it is the unpalatable truth. There is no way that there is no way that America is going to elect a man who comes from a background of having been a red diaper baby with a lefty nutjob white trash mother, and a Muslim father and schooling in Indonesia. And that is just the START of a long, consistent arc of a life of a member of the died-in-the-wool “hate America first” crowd.
His decades of associations from his youngest years, with Communist Party of the USA members.
His associations with unrepentant ex-Weathermen terrorists. His associations as “community organiser”, with radical Left anti-Western-Christian culture educational and social foundations, including serving on boards with multimillion dollar budgets, with those ex-terrorists. The columns he wrote in a radical leftwing rag over several years, that could have come straight from the pen of Chris Trotter.
His voting record in the Senate in Illinois and in Washington. The most-Leftwing voting record possible. Not one “bipartisan” activity to his name (unlike McCain who has sponsored numerous pieces of legislation with a Democratic Party Co-sponsor).
His associations with “black power” activists/”churchmen” and grievance culture politics. Attending Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years, and having his own children baptised by him, and giving large sums to his church from boards of which he was a member. Naming his book “The Audacity of hope” after a sermon by Wright. Then having the gall to say he didn’t really know the guy.
His recorded (on video) unwillingness to sing the National Anthem or salute the flag or say the pledge of allegiance.
His associations with radical Islamists. (Columnist Daniel Pipes writes that Obama would not pass a security clearance if he had applied for a job at a government department).
His recorded comments on changes to the constitution not having proceeded rapidly enough up till now. His comments about “spreading the wealth around” and the hypocrisy involved in his close family all still living in poverty while he is worth millions. The disturbing fact that he is the first ever high profile candidate who has NEVER had a single surviving parent or grandparent on stage with him or on TV with him.
The fact that his career at University, his marks, and what he wrote in his Thesises, have been concealed through privacy law. (Would you EMPLOY a guy who hid this much from you?). Over all, his incredible shameless ability to LIE about all this and deceive millions of gullible people with the aid of his campaign machine and its natural extension, the “mainstream” media.
As Melanie Phillips put it, “pinch me”, if this man is a potential future President of the USA, I must be asleep and having a nightmare.
But if the MSM DO pull this off, they will still lose something as a result. The Obama Presidency will be marked by such disaster for the USA that I suggest that a rerun of the McCarthy hearings will be necessary for the movement that put him into power. One Vidkun Quisling gave his name to posterity when he sold his country to the Nazis. Something similar is happening here, only on a massive scale, with the media as footsoldiers. It is the neo-Marxist “Long March Through The Institutions” reaching its logical conclusion.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Here is more evidence of DPF’s socialism: not only is Obama a socialist/communist who will harm the US economy like Labour has, he will attack personal freedoms like Helen has. It is interesting to note that there is a group of one-eyed sycophants surrounding both Obama and Helen.
The US is the only country currently capable of projecting significant military force around the world, and having a friend of communist terrorists as the Commander in Chief of those forces should be cause for alarm not celebration. Obama will make a dangerously imperialistic country more dangerous.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/portraying-mccain-and-obama-as-saints/
November 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
“How much better would it be for us all if Amercia’s first black president was someone like Colin Powell”
Colin Powell is a racist and cynical opportunist who has endorsed Obama in exchange for a post in his cabinet. He would be no improvement.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
DPF:
“On the subject of lengths of comments, I would suggest that people only copy a few paragraphs into a comment and provide a link for the full thing.”
Not going to be popular here. I’ve noticed that the most egregious cut-and-paste spammers are all most always of the crazy far right, and the kiwiblog comments section is all about the crazy far-right.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
I am with Slightly Righty
This will be Obama’s moment, let him have it
But all signs point to his presidency being a disaster (Jimmy Carter’s second term) but until that appears to be the case I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Despite the reasonably heavy loss today for the Republicans, I predict the mid term elections will a repeat of 94
November 5th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Just take a step back and look at this recent article about how hidden race prejudice could play a major part in the voting today
Obama would emphasise race – “playing the race card” – more than any President since slavery, and treat people based on ethnicity instead of as individuals. “Progressives” like Obama are not that at all: they’re living in the past, thriving on minority’s feelings (real or manufactured) of persecution. And if you look at what huge beneficiaries of the welfare state Black Americans have been, I’d say the victimisation has been done by the party that they vote for 10:1. Obama has close ties throughout his life to radical leftwing demagogues of the modern civil rights persuation; his church Pastor of 25 years is an adherent to “black liberation theology”. Obama might even resurrect the Slavery Reparations issue – on a national level from the White House itself, no less. IMO fear of the kind of race-based demagoguery that will set back race relations decades and divide the country along racial lines as much as it has been since the 50s/60s is entirely justified. IOW racism of Obama, et al; not just the Bradley Effect.
The left, exemplified by Obama, is a neverending political gravy train of divide-and-conquer demagoguery, which can only be defeated by people willing to courageously withstand unpleasant accusations of racism; ironically the very people who do treat people as individuals instead of based on labels that are applied to them.
What a relief McCain still has a very good chance of winning. Ignore the MSM’s take on things as they’re in the tank for Obama and their polling has a very poor track record, largely because of the media’s inability to understand just how much you can really tell from them. McCain’s got a better than even chance to win (I haven’t checked any exit polling results… they’ll be utterly wrong anyway).
November 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
# roger nome (3948) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating1 Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
DPF:
“There are many great things about the country – the constitution, the bill of rights, term limits, massive inwards immigration, the ability of poor immigrants to rise to the top etc etc.”
“Um – you do realise that the US has one of the lowest social mobility levels amongst the OECD countries, and is consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt countries in the developed world?
Time to take those rose-tinted glasses off son.”
Roger Nome, the disingenuousness of that post is just breathtaking. We have the following African-Americans who were born in poverty, Barack Obama, within a hairs breadth of winning the presidency, after having received the endorsement of one Oprah Winfrey, the wealthiest show host in the USA, and one Colin Powell who rose to US Armed Services Chief of Staff and Secretary of State………and you’ve got the gall to trot out the hoary old “America, the land of oppression and exploitation” narrative. BAH.
I refuse to be diverted further now from the subject of this thread, I look forward to our next rerun of the “social mobility” debate. Cheers.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
# NeilM (200) 1 1 Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am
“Dear God PhilBest, Saul Alinsky wasn’t a Marxist. He was a very talented and inventive community organiser. Hillary Clinton did her senior thesis on him.
“Rules for Radicals” is a great book, there’s nothing extreme Left about it, just community empowerment.”
Oh, dear BRUUUTHA…..
Thus the “Long March Through TheInstitutions” progresses, with outright stooges, suckers, and ignorant “centrists” like DPF making disingenuous assurances about the good faith of people like Saul Alinsky…….
November 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Personally, I have always thought David Palmer made a great President.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
President Obama; the guy who is going to give the green light for the Israelis to attack Iran. See how his Moslem mates like that.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
I won’t inflict any more cut-and-pastes of informative articles on this issue, onto this thread, keep it tidy. But if anyone is interested, and missed the ones I put on the General Debate thread yesterday……..
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/11/general_debate_4_november_2008.html#comments
and scroll down……
November 5th, 2008 at 10:55 am
well I have a lot of admiration for Alinsky and can see his heritage in Obama – the grass roots organising.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:56 am
philbest – Your examples are meaningless. The US has one of the most rigid class structures in the developed world. So it’s one of the least free countries in the developed world (i.e. you’re more likely to be trapped in poverty if you’re born poor). Those are the simple facts.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Good youtube link Redbaiter, and more than a little concerning.
Here’s the link if anyone missed it
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ryicHGLXdPs
November 5th, 2008 at 10:58 am
I reject both the pro-Obama hysteria and the anti-Obama hysteria.
This is one of those full-half – empty-half of the glass issues, and by and large DPF gets the full half right. I disagree about the abortion issue, the mass murder of children SHOULD be one of the top issues for any country, and I disagree about George Beyer. George is not a man who became a women. He’s a man with fake breasts and pretend genitalia. Sad, and sad that we “celebrate” psychological dysfunction and narcissism as “diversity”.
But by and large DPF gets the positives about Obama right. Hopefully. The fact is that until he’s has been Pres for at least a few months, we will not know.
I am looking to see who he picks for Secretary of State (foreign relations) and Defense. IF he really is a centrist or a moderate centre-leftist, he should reach out to Joe Lieberman for State and Colin Powell for Defense. Those kinds of picks would make me feel a lot better about him.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
And this is why Obama will probably win. The triumph of flash over substance. Of charisma and messianic glory over common sense. Of the inherently racist belief that the election of a black man is, in and of itself, the solution.
Obama doesn’t represent America, he represents the antithesis of America. And, yet, he’s an inevitability in a world that has lost its way and looks increasingly to the state for direction and support–something the state can never provide despite all its regulations and legalised larceny.
Change? Hope? Forget it. Same old statist bullshit in a bespoke suit.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
fuck yeah! David Palmer was harsh!!! wasnt a fan of his wimpy brother though.. anyway the new “24″ president is a chick..
im still unhappy with Colin Powell and his black endorsement. however, ill sleep better at night knowing hes gonna have a top job in the cabinet.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
“The United States is far from perfect, but if you have to choose one country in the world to be the super-power, I am damn glad it is the United States”
Who in their right mind wants the US as the world’s policeman????? This is the country that requires airlines to give them the payment and frequent flier details of airline passengers flying to the US, supposedly in the name of freedom.
The US proves that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
This page lists the data about passengers that the US demands by law – airlines cannot land if they do not supply it:
http://www.out-law.com/page-8333
November 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
roger,
“The US has one of the most rigid class structures in the developed world”
Bollocks. There are very few places in the world that have anywhere the class and economic social mobility that the US does. At the very least Obama is proof of that.
Also, if you want to see rigid class structure try living in France or England sometime.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
“This is the country that requires airlines to give them the payment and frequent flier details of airline passengers flying to the US”
Gee, maybe that has something to do with Sept.11???
Would you like a China-Russia axis as the world’s policeman instead?
November 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Further, McCain is not the answer either. But as with John Key, he’s the best of two desperately clueless alternatives.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Poor people in the US often can afford their drugs and booze etc ever thought that could be the reason they are trapped in their poverty. The US rewards, hard work, education and talent.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:08 am
“Good youtube link Redbaiter, and more than a little concerning.”
Pleased that you followed it Shunda, and thanks for re-posting. Once again, the internet steps in where the mainstream media have failed us. I mean betrayed us.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ryicHGLXdPs
November 5th, 2008 at 11:08 am
In the article ‘Like, Socialism’
Terrifying. McCain in 2000..
Secret agenda or WHAT
November 5th, 2008 at 11:10 am
>It shows the remarkable ability of some cultures and societies to change that within a lifetime you can go from a country where blacks are segregated as second class citizens to having a black man elected President.
It sharpens the contrast between the US and many other countries. Germans turned out by the tens of thousands to hear Obama speak, but the chance that the son or daughter of a Turkish immigrant might be chancellor is close to nil. It was only a few years ago that German born people with Turkish parents were even allowed German citizenship. Similarly, French born ethnic Arab children are fighting it out with the police in the slums surrounding Paris, rather than making a serious run for President.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:12 am
“Further, McCain is not the answer either. But as with John Key, he’s the best of two desperately clueless alternatives.”
Damn right. Politically, McCain is a confused left wing arsehole. (Palin provides much more real hope.) Obama is an utter disaster for the free world, and McCain has to be dragged over the line as the only alternative available. Like the Nats here need to be purged of Labour supporters, its time for a clean out of Republicans who really belong with the Democrats.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Can only agree with Redbaiter. Palin for President and I reckon Joe the Plumber would make an excellent Secretary of State.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Lee – that’s your opinion. The facts and figures however tell a different story.
Try the graph on page 46 of the following link.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/27/28/38335410.pdf
November 5th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Another one for Redbaiter and Phil.
http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/ghouls-glossary-2008-election.html
Communist: 1. A believer in a graduated income tax (“Communists” include Adam Smith and 81% of professional American economists). 2. When modified by ‘Chinese’ : A supplier of retail goods to Walmart.
Alaska: The only one of the 50 states where secessionists are considered American patriots rather than traitors.
Enjoy your day folks.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
roger,
“Lee – that’s your opinion.”
Gee, ya think? What was your first clue?
“Try the graph on page 46 of the following link.”
Ooooh, a graph! Well ya got me there!
Pillock.
Ever lived in the US roger?
November 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
One thing DPF gets right, Obama will be a nice big stick to thrash the anti-American nutbars with.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am
“Enjoy your day folks.”
Yeah fuck off commie, and get a sense of humour while you’re away. It might save you from your own idiocy made evident by your failure to perceive the satire in Cole’s comments.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Ok, so what “lee” spouts on a blog carries more weight than an official OECD study. That’s game over i believe.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:50 am
8 years of free entertainment.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
BTW – John Key recently compared himself to Obama. I wonder if English is worried about Key’s “moralism”?
November 5th, 2008 at 11:54 am
It’s why I posted it you tool. Cole’s one of my heroes dipstick. Any satire intended is aimed at the lickspittle brigade you exemplify.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:56 am
“It’s why I posted it you tool.”
So little integrity you can’t even be trusted to tell the truth about your presence on Kiwiblog.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Hi All,
what are you using to get the results as they come in? I found USA Today and Fox news, but better still is this link:
http://www.uselections.com/election_divisions.htm
It provides links to the individual States websites (in a lot of cases). From there you can go to the counties and see the precincts report. For example Kentucky (and Indiana) closed first at 6pm EST (12 midday NZ time):
http://electionresults.ky.gov/KyElectWeb/index.jsp
The Casey county is the first off the block and its Presidential result so far is here:
http://electionresults.ky.gov/KyElectWeb/kes?AC=3&RF=0&AR=0&R=A01000000&L=3023&N=U.S.+PRESIDENT&RV=0&DV=10788&TP=15&TC=1
which says at last refresh (1 of 15 precincts reporting)
Candidate Party Votes %
McCain & Palin R 263 77.6%
Obama & Biden D 73 21.5%
Nader & Gonzalez I 2 0.6%
Barr & Root L 1 0.3%
Baldwin & Thornsberry C 0 0.0%
November 5th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
roger,
I grew up in the US. I have seen and experienced the poverty there. I know the kind of deep poverty that my father was born into. And I have seen him and other people rise above that, and become successful and wealthy. I have seen first hand the kind of social mobility you claim does not exist. More people become millionaires every year in the US than any other country.
Fact. Obama is a second generation American from a poor family who may become Pres today.
Fact. Colin Powell is also a second generation American from an immigrant family, rose to become Secretary of State.
Fact. Sarah Palin was a homemaker and a mother who became governor of Alaska and a potential VP
Thats social mobility.
I did a quick peruse of the OECD report and right off the bat I noticed a large number of debatable and questionable assumptions about how it defined social mobility, including the belief that people receiving cradle to grave welfare support are “successful” and upwardly mobile.
So again, I ask you, have you ever lived in the US?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
“Cole’s one of my heroes dipstick.”
Thats sad.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Here’s a link from after the 2004 Presidential Election:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/2004-11-03-polls-burn-pundits_x.htm
Although it seems as though Obama (who WILL be a disaster for America and the world) may get elected, we cannot trust the polls 100%. My sister who lives in Nebraska said a friend of hers was polled in person. This is how it goes:
Pollster: Who will you be voting for?
Friend: McCain.
Pollster: and says undecided.
Friend: No, I am voting for McCain.
Pollster: and says ok…undecided.
Friend: No, I am voting for McCain.
Pollster: and says ok…undecided.
Friend: What are you doing, I said I am voting for McCain.
Pollster: . Can you tell me why you are voting for McCain?
Conclusion: Pollster records friend as Undecided.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
“I have seen first hand the kind of social mobility you claim does not exist.”
Lee – i didn’t argue that there are absolutely no rags to riches stories in the US, simply that the facts show the US to have comparatively poor levels of social mobility.
That was in response to DPF’s crowing about how you can go from being poor to rich in the US – whereas it isn’t a remarkable aspect og the us. Quite the opposite actually.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
The “facts” don’t show that, because you have failed to provide any. What you provided was a biased report that considers being on welfare as upwards social mobility.
Again, have you ever lived there?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Lee – what organisation is less biased than the OECD? Fox news I suppose you’ll say.
“What you provided was a biased report that considers being on welfare as upwards social mobility.”
Prove it.
“Again, have you ever lived there?”
That’s irrelevant. You claim to have lived there, but show yourself to be utterly ignorant of its relative levels of social freedom..
November 5th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Latest from Kentucky:
McCain & Palin R 12,060 68.4%
Obama & Biden D 5,322 30.2%
Nader & Gonzalez I 173 1.0%
Barr & Root L 50 0.3%
Baldwin & Thornsberry C 37 0.2%
0.6% of registered voters have had their vote counted.
Do anyone have more up to date results?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Latest from Kentucky:
McCain & Palin R 88,253 50.6%
Obama & Biden D 84,112 48.3%
Nader & Gonzalez I 1,185 0.7%
Barr & Root L 441 0.3%
Baldwin & Thornsberry C 260 0.1%
6.0 of registered voters have had their vote counted.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
roger,
“Lee – what organisation is less biased than the OECD?”
In fact the OECD has been critiqued for bias in the past and continues to be. Many OECD reports contain baseline assumptions that are at least questionable, and seem to be biased towards European welfare socialism.
“Prove it.”
Its in the report. DUH.
“That’s irrelevant.”
Its totally relevant. Spouting off about a country you have no real world experience of lays you open to the reasonable charge that your just spouting lefty propaganda.
“but show yourself to be utterly ignorant of its relative levels of social freedom.”
On the contrary, I have shown from my own experience and from the people I have known, people like my dad, (and there are tens of thousands of such people who worked their way out of poverty), that my opinion is at least based on actual experience. Yours is based on a graph that starts from questionable assumptions about what social mobility really is.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
“In fact the OECD has been critiqued for bias in the past and continues to be. ”
As has every organisation. I asked you to name one organisation that could be reasonably said to be less biased than the OECD. You failed.
“Its in the report. DUH.”
You can’t and therefore haven’t shown that.
“Spouting off about a country you have no real world experience of”
A) The use of subjective experience/personal anecdotes is no way of solving an empirical problem (which social mobility is of course).
B) You could just be making it all up anyhow.
“I have shown from my own experience ”
Nah – you’ve shown nothing.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Lee, should we follow Irelands lead in abortion, abortion is banned throughout Ireland ?
But they do nothing to stop pregnant women from going to England for an abortion.
If we followed Ireland’s law, think there would be many in NZ who would volunteer to carry out forced medical inspections on women who want to travel to Australia, and who are of child bearing age ?
November 5th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
“As has every organisation. I asked you to name one organisation that could be reasonably said to be less biased than the OECD. You failed.”
On the contrary, I clearly showed, and you agree, that the OECD has been critiqued for bias. I dont need to come with some other supposedly less bias group, because thr report you relied on was an OECD report, ergo its the only organisation that matters for this debate.
“You can’t and therefore haven’t shown that.”
Read it. The report is clearly based on the assumption that people on welfare can be considered upwardly mobile.
“Spouting off about a country you have no real world experience of”
“A) The use of subjective experience/personal anecdotes is no way of solving an empirical problem (which social mobility is of course).”
Real world experience is inherently more reliable than biased reporting.
“B) You could just be making it all up anyhow.”
Which goes to show you have failed to make your case when you have to resort to the blog equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “nah nah your lying”. Are we in a schoolyard?
“you’ve shown nothing.”
I have shown you the real world as it is experienced by real people.
You have shown nothing except a graph that considers welfare addiction to be upwardly mobile.
Social mobility comes in a wide variety of forms. The OECD report considered only a very narrow range of criteria, and did so in a way that many people could question as biased.
Moreover, we get back to the fact that America may well be about to do what most European social welfare countries have not.
The fact remains that you have no real experience of the USA, and therefore cannot give anything like an informed opinion about it.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
“Despite my disagreement with some of his policies, I find the highly likely election of Barack Obama to the Presidency of the United States a thrilling event. Never has an election been so symbolic of change, but also carrying such huge expectations for the future.”
Hear hear – nicely said!
November 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Obama a socialist, interesting, can some one name one US president in the last fifty years who has not had socialist programs including farm subsidies ?
November 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
The US is a two party State with little policy difference between the parties.
Real power is, and always has been, held by the wealthy elite and corporations.
Bush’s bailout of the financial barons shows he’s a corporate socialist.
Obama or McCain will make no difference to American hegemony
Blue or Red. It doesn’t matter ‘cos whoever becomes President is just a puppet.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
# Redbaiter says: “So little integrity you can’t even be trusted to tell the truth about your presence on Kiwiblog.”
HA! BAHAHAHA! AHAHAHA! Classic. Will you be voting under the name “Redbaiter” on Saturday then? Evidently that’s your “TRUE” name, or else the whole comment above is pure hypocrisy, and I know how you hate hypocrisy, old chap!
I can appreciate that the day of Obama’s ascendancy is a bad one for you, but that comment about what you call integrity is even more one-eyed and ridiculous than your norm…
November 5th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
“I can appreciate that the day of Obama’s ascendancy is a bad one for you, but that comment about what you call integrity is even more one-eyed and ridiculous than your norm…”
Gee whiz, you write as if you imagine I care for your opinion. How deluded can you get???
November 5th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
DPF: “People would have you think it was a white Christian fundamentalist country that causes poverty in Africa, demonises Muslims and is controlled by a military industrial cabal”.
Yeah, well. Who are we to ignore inconvenient things such as recorded facts and statements by unimportant commentators such as Dwight D. Eisenhower?
Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together”
November 5th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Just got off a flight – all I can say is Bugger!
November 5th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Obama a socialist, interesting, can some one name one US president in the last fifty years who has not had socialist programs including farm subsidies ?
Only in a totalitarian society do you have ideological consistency. Never in democracies.
Your argument works both ways. Until Obama institutes fascism he’ll have to put up with pragmatic positions that contradict his political compass…