An awful thought
I guess if New Zealand First had made it back into Parliament they’d just be wrapping up coalition talks about now and either Clark or Key would be telling us what a great Governor General Winston was going to be.
Heh.
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Tags: Dim-Post, Humour, Winston First
December 9th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
What would be the difference between the incumbent and the Rt Hon Winston Peters?
December 9th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
you may be laughing about this..d.p.f..
..but the basic fact is that new zealand first got more votes than act..
..yet those voters have no parliamentary representation..
..and hide..is arguably..over-represented..
..no matter what you may feel about either party..
..how is this ‘good democracy’/democratic practice..?
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
[DPF: The law allows you to qualify for List MPs if the voters in an electorate vote elect an MP from that party. This allows parties under 5% to qualify if they are not hated by the vast majority of the country, yet worked perfectly for NZF and no electorate would vote for a NZF MP, knowing it would get Winston back]
December 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I suspect the incumbent would have lower running costs. Although might be cheaper to book out the Green Parrot with Govt House kitchens out of commission
December 9th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
And more then the Maori party too – it’s just a quirk of the system, swings & roundabouts and all. Not worth complaining about.
Unless you’re a NZ 1st supporter I suppose.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
no..it is a fault..
..that needs fixing..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
December 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
philu – you are right! we need a change! let’s ditch MMP
December 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
and no..i am not ‘a new zealand first supporter’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
December 9th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Sorry, that was supposed to be hypothetical. I didn’t think you were one of Winston’s.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
The law allows you to qualify for List MPs if the voters in an electorate vote elect an MP from that party. This allows parties under 5% to qualify if they are not hated by the vast majority of the country, yet worked perfectly for NZF and no electorate would vote for a NZF MP, knowing it would get Winston back
I do think it would be more democratic if an electorate seat meant you got one electorate MP, and to get any more you needed to break the 5% threshold.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Yes…. I wonder why it wasn’t done this way? I’d prefer that too – but much like it’s bad form to barrack a referee’s poor decision, I can’t get worked up over the odd things the system throws up from time to time.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
why is it only unfair when the left lose?
December 9th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Llew>Not worth complaining about.
Worth celebrating actually. All those racists and old women who think Peters is a nice young man wasted their votes. I can’t think of anything better.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Yeah, but that depends on who you’re cheering for or against. And next time it might work against us. So… swings & roundabouts.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
“All those racists”
What is a “racist” Davidp?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Sigh
Look, parties run election campaigns to get into Parliament. They pick the strategy that gets them there.
NZ First and ACT picked two different strategies.
ACT put most of their resources into winning an electoral seat.
NZ First put most of their resources into getting to 5%.
Different strategies see.
ACT’s strategy worked- but we don’t have the counter-factual. We don’t know what party vote they’d have got if they campaigned to reach 5%. I got practrially nothing from ACT in my electorate (and nothing from the Greens).
NZ First’s strategy failed- but we don’t have the counter-factual. We don’t know what party vote they’d have got if they campaigned to win an electoral seat instead.
It’s a little too simplistic and convenient to say that ACT got less votes than NZ First so the system doesn’t work.
We’ve given small parties two routes into Parliament. Everyone knows that. It’s up to the party to decide which route they will try to use.
Wanting to punish ACT because NZ First’s strategy failed (and ACT’s succeeded) is simply vindictive.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
“What is a “racist” Davidp?
Someone who thinks Peters is a nice young man. C’mon, RB, lively up yourself!!!!
December 9th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Heh – that works both ways too Dime.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
“Someone who thinks Peters is a nice young man.”
That would be Helen Klark then. Go away you attention seeking moron. Let the little liberal answer the question for himself.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I heard John Campbell or some such saying how much she admired Winnie – somehow I can’t credit it though, she must surely have loathed him? He certainly cost her votes, if not the election.
[DPF: No at the end she really did seem wedded to him. Some form of Stockholm Syndrome]
December 9th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
But RB – all us liberals think alike, with the same hive mind.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
The well known lefty, Davidp…
Snigger.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
“But RB – all us liberals think alike, with the same hive mind.”
True. Some of you though are a lot more ignorant than just ignorant.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Chthoniid,
Agreed you can’t rerun an election after it’s over as if different rules applied. As you say, no counterfactual.
But what of the substantive question … is it a good rule to let parties winning an electorate seat surpass the threshold for list representation?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
llew,
“The well known lefty, Davidp…”
To an ant, even a mouse looks giant.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
More equitable perhaps, but less “democratic”.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Well, whoever he is, he ain’t gonna answer. I’m just curious as to how someone can so strongly criticize NZ First supporters who might merely put some value on Western European culture and might quite reasonably resent its dilution by stone age cultures where woman are treated like cattle and queers are hung, when the Maori party are so in your face unapologetically racist.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
A racist is someone who evaluates an individual based on the colour o’ their skin or other biological, unchosen determinants – it’s the crudest form o’ barnyard collectivism. Viz the Ku Klux Klan or various neo-Nazi elements fer obvious examples. While Peters’ recurring immigration policies weren’t explicitly racist, they were supported by those with racist inclinations (less ta do with “valuing Western European culture” than a general dislike of Asians qua Asians) an’ Peters knew this, recognisin’ a constituency to be tapped when he sees it.
You know all this, though, ‘Baiter … but it won’t stop you denying its existence. Go deny it to the descendants of those lynched in the South in the 19th and 20th centuries.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I know the Dimpost is, by it’s very nature, a flight of whimsy but that’s just ridiculous.
There’s no way in the world Winston would accept. The postion of Governor General is basically that of a figurehead. Though in theory he could refuse to sign a Bill into law he can’t propose legislation that benefits anyone at the expense of anyone else. Hence, no capacity for the acceptance of bribes.
I know there’s very good reason to view anyone born south of Ashburton with deep suspicion (and banjo music) but that’s a bit rough…
December 9th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Well, Winnie as GG would have certainly been a fun ride for us all! Can’t you imagine the things he’d have said and done!
It would have moved us into a republic faster than anything else.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Chthoniid (183) 1 1 … sums it all up really. Do I think its unfair that NZF failed to make it back into Parliament despite winning 4.1% of the vote? Hell no. Thems the rules. Is it unfair that the Bill & Ben Party failed to make it into Parliament despite 10,000+ people voting for them? Hell no. Thems the rules.
But one does hear that the Parliamentary Bottle Store is having a fire sale of whisky. Overstocked and now no buyers.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
“A racist is someone who evaluates an individual based on the colour o’ their skin”
Kind of like “you white honky bastards who came out here and committed a holocaust on our people” ? Or judges all white Europeans as guilty for the perceived wrong doings of a few of their ancestors. Is that it oh wise one?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Ahahaha! Most Rexcellent. This is about Gore again, isn’t it?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
It used to be cheap rebadged blended malt, and that was in the Great Potato’s day, has it improved?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
“This is about Gore again, isn’t it?”
Any Democrat really.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Just imagine Winny the Pooh’s wine cellar if he was made GG? Burp, pass another wine box.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
“who evaluates an individual based on the colour o’ their skin”
But many Asians have a skin colour that is indistinguishable from European skin colour oh Wise One.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
It sends a shudder down my spine to think that Peter’s might get anywhere near or, be associated with our government again, in any shape or form. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
OK
Who woke FillYou again! Who was it?
Go to the corner and write out 5000 times “I must not wake Phil before he has recovered from the last election – sometime in 2020 with luck”.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
On what a racist is:
A while back, I heard a (Maori) speaker on “eye to eye” announce that Maori can’t be racist.
It takes a special kind of moron to contradict themselves in only one sentence.
On what a racist isn’t:
Danny-boy says: “A racist is someone who evaluates an individual based on the colour o’ their skin or other biological, unchosen determinants”
This is actually a very good definition in as much as it excludes culture, religion and everything else that is a matter of free choice. All these things are merely ideas created by man, and must therefore not be raised above intelligent scrutiny, nor have their acceptance forced upon us under the guise of the protection of a minority from discrimination.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Korean MP wishes NZ First good riddance
Tuesday, 9, Dec, 2008 4:36PM
Parliament’s feisty new Korean-born MP has delivered her maiden speech, praising the removal of New Zealand First from Parliament.
Broadcaster Melissa Lee says her election as MP has made her the first Korean woman to become an MP outside of Korea.
Ms Lee told Parliament at her joy that New Zealand First did not make it back to Parliament. She says they are a party supported by people who do not like people like her simply because of her ethnicity.
“New Zealand has come of age it seems, by saying we have no room at this particular end for racists. It is the dawning of a new era and it is my privilege to be a part of it.”
Ms Lee says she calls herself a kiwi, but to some New Zealanders she will always be seen as a foreigner because of her skin colour – and that must change.
Help sum it all up guys?
December 9th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
“Ms Lee told Parliament at her joy that New Zealand First did not make it back to Parliament. She says they are a party supported by people who do not like people like her simply because of her ethnicity.”
No Korean has the damn right to come to NZ and lecture us on racism. Koreans are the most racist people out there, especially towards blacks. Take your sanctimonious European bashing elsewhere Melissa, and don’t try and tell me you don’t know about how racist your country of birth is.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
There are times, Redbaiter, when I am ashamed to be associated with this blog. A racist is someone who defines people by their ethnicity. To criticise her as a Korean (if indeed she is) makes you a racist. Address her reasoning, not her race. Your reaction demeans you.
December 9th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Read the report dipshit. She self identifies as a Korean. Take your pathetic PC posturing and your faux “shame” elsewhere. It cuts no ice with me. NZers of Western European descent are the most racially tolerant people in the world. We do not need lectures on the subject of racism from Koreans. She should show some gratitude towards the people who have welcomed her here rather than work at creating divisions in society. She should just shut the hell up about perceived racism and get on with her job. Ever been to Korea? Ever talked to any black who has been to Korea? You don’t know what you’re talking about.
December 9th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Predictably Redbaiter, you miss the point in your determination to play the man, not the argument. You start with the premise that all Koreans are racist (false). Melissa is a Korean. Ipso facto she is a racist. Your argument is transparent sophistry, and you will be judged accordingly. Incidentally, I agree that Kiwis of European descent are among the most racially tolerant people on the planet, but I would not extrapolate that to argue that there are no European Kiwi racists. You are living proof of that fallacy.
December 9th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
You should apply the same test to Melissa, who in your pathetically constricted PC mind, is apparently free to label anyone who ever supported NZ First a racist.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Hows that Green, Maori, NZFirst, Labour coalition you were telling us about looking phool?
December 10th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
are you talking about nationals 0.8% ‘mandate’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
December 11th, 2008 at 9:05 am
So fucking drugged up he didn’t notice the biggest ass kicking handed out under MMP.
Go to rehab dickless.