Little for President then Parliament
December 1st, 2008 at 9:10 am by David FarrarThe National Secretary of that independent third party, the EPMU, is set to become Labour Party President, and then a Labour MP no later than 2011.
Personally I think this is a good move for Labour. Andrew Little will bring a proven organisational track record to the job, and will also be a very good MP for them. In fact if Labour lose in 2011 he could rise to a leadership position very very quickly.
It’s almost a pity the Electoral Finance Act will be just a bad memory by 2011, as we won’t get to see Andrew argue that he can be the Labour Party President and the National Secretary of the EPMU, yet the EPMU would still be eligible for third party status.
The challenge is to find a seat for Andrew. Andrew is far too smart to rely on being a List MP. Before Annette King became Deputy Leader, I would have said Rongotai. That may still happen. Annette will be 64 at the next election and could step down as Deputy in late 2010, having helped stabilise the Opposition.
If not Rongotai, then Hutt South is the logical other choice. Now Mallard will choose the timing of his own departure but he entered Parliament in 1984, and it is not impossible he’ll retire in 2011 unless Labour are looking to have a good chance of winning. Even if they do win though, Mallard will not be guaranteed to be a Minister with all the ambitious new MPs wanting promotion. He may also be too associated with the Clark era.
Hipkins and Robertson won’t be giving up their seats, and Ohariu will favour National if Dunne retires. Mana is a dark horse possibility for Little. Winnie Laban is a lovely person, but not well suited to Opposition. Will she want to do six or more years in Opposition, with no guarantee of a Ministerial role when they do make it back? Labour now has several Pacific Island MPs.
The other item of interest is who will suceed Little at EPMU in three years? Will it be a moderate like Andrew or is there an opportunity for a more radical leader?
December 1st, 2008 at 9:21 am
Right so it’s now alright that he be EMPU President and Labour president as we won the election and the Act will be gone?
We need to do away with all impediments to the electoral process incl 3rd parties.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 9:51 am
A working life spent using other people’s money to push his political ideolgy. He’ll fit so well into William’s shoes.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 10:27 am
Of course they’ll send him to Parliament as soon as possible. How else could they afford to have Little campaign and organise full time for Labour.
By making him a MP, Little gets
- office support and staff dedicated to Labour
- free cellphone and travel around NZ
- absolute privilege
Let’s face it – Labour can’t appoint directors to QUANGOs and SOEs now they are in opposition, membership and donations will be low, they will probably be skint after throwing the kitchen sink at National and Owen Glenn won’t be disposed to give them any moremoney, so they need to find a new pot of money to pay for a new Party President. The NZ taxpayer should do nicely via Parliamentary Servicesfunding.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am
God almighty Little taking over from the Duck! One wanker replacing another. I’ll have to shift out of Hutt South. Its more than a grown man can bear without crying.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 11:05 am
Thus manitaining their traditions of putting slimy dishonest verbally slipery weasles in charge.
Business as usual.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 11:47 am
Surely Little will get Helen’s safe seat when she goes to Geneva later next year!!!!!!
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 11:56 am
Red, hasn’t the election result moderated your otherwise bilious view of the world? What would?
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Paul Williams aka Mike Williams, reds got it right
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
“Red, hasn’t the election result moderated your otherwise bilious view of the world? What would?”
I can’t see that this is justified. What is a “bilious” view, and how does it relate to the issue of Andrew Little’s advancement within the Labour Party?
If I’m supposed to see it as a good thing I can’t I’m afraid. Mr. Little subscribes to a dangerous ideology and holds views I believe only come about through brain rot. He wants to take my money, my property, my choices, my freedom of expression, and his only interest in government lies in using it to achieve those objectives and also to crush any ideology that competes with his own.
I actually support the right of workers to form unions. What I don’t agree with is the view that the circumstances of workers are automatically advanced by means of the leftist political agenda. Completely wrong I say.
So I cannot support Mr. Little as a Trade Union leader or a politician. Why anyone would describe this as “bilious” is something I suggest only the likes of you Mr. Williams could explain.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Red, Andrew has a different set of political views compared with you. They’re pretty mainstream frankly. Union membership’s voluntary too you might recall. The EPMU’s one of the major union’s in NZ. Andrew’s well regarded both inside and outside the union movement – you’d know this I suspect if you had anything to do with any of the peak industry groups. He’s done none of what you claim. He’s faithfully and expertly represented his members. He’s worked constructively and postively towards improving work and productivity. You’ve attacked him because he believes in something you don’t. You attack just about everyone who doesn’t see things as you do. It’s charmless if nothing else.
Get out of the echo chamber. It’s commonplace to have disagreements, even significant ones, but it’s less commonplace to denigrate all who see things differently from you – outside the ‘sphere that is.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pm
“You attack just about everyone who doesn’t see things as you do. ”
Not true. I attack those who seek to control me, and I urge others to do the same. It is in my opinion imperative that we as individuals drive back the collectivists of the left. History has demonstrated what happens when they become all powerful. They must never be permitted to achieve the power they seek.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
The EPMU is an extension of the Labour Party and is used to launder money. Its ok to belong to the EPMU and Labour but you get stitched up for standing for Act and frankly we’re pretty sick of the double speak and bullshit.
I suspect you’d know this if you had the telly on back on Nov 8th.
“Echochamber”, a place where insulated lefties get the crap torn out of them and should therefore be regulated.
One thing you will always find at Kiwiblog is an utter lack of niformity of view. Get a different dictonary.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
“Ohariu will favour National if Dunne retires.”
How exactly can you say that Ohariu will turn blue (at the electorate level) when Dunne retires, when Labour’s candidate Charles Chauvel lost by a mere 1,152?
The National candidate came 3rd.
It is now a marginal seat.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Missed you in Masterton the other James.
Must get the steering checked.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Geez sleep, work it out. It’s not rocket science.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pm
You cannot assume that Dunne’s personal vote will automatically go to National.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I wonder if there’s a point, however, I should remind you that (a) you don’t have to belong to a union and (b) you certainly don’t have to vote Labour. If your concern is about the proper functioning of democratic organisations/nations, then I offer no alternative.
Murray, if you want to be taken seriously, try making sensible comments. I’ve read the information about the ACT candidate, it appears he breached his employment agreement – he seems like he was a pretty foolish chap actually, not the sort of person I’d think suitable for parliament.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
“I wonder if there’s a point, ”
Well, I don’t know. If you’re seeking to convert me to an ideology I left behind with other articles of immaturity then yes, its probably futile. If you’re trying to tell me you are no threat to my freedom, then once again you’re up against a brick wall.
Klark and her cohorts were everything I expected them to be, and their attacks on the Brethren, their attempts to limit freedom of political expression, their politicization of the Police force, their expansion of government and government power, their attacks on individualism, their indiscriminate pursuit of power at the cost of the country’s social and racial cohesion, were all eminently predictable outcomes of electing the left to government. How could I change my mind after witnessing this??
Next time you’ll do the same. Difference is you’ll do it in a more sophisticated manner, for you’re always learning from your mistakes, and always coming back with improved strategies. But you’re always intent on the same outcome. Using government to pursue leftist ideology. You seek to slowly and incrementally destroy democracy and replace it with soft tyranny and a relatively benign totalitarianism. You say I don’t have to vote Labour but your work assiduously and tirelessly and endlessly to incrementally take away every other choice I might have.
I make no apology for being opposed to these outcomes, and I doubt you or any leftist has an argument that will change my mind. I’ve been there Mr. Williams, and having experienced something of the world, and in particular had my eyes opened to what happens when the left have total control, I’m never ever ever going back to that mentally stunted and self destructive state of being.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Ok, we’ve pretty much reached an impasse. I don’t agree with your characterisation of what Labour’s done or seeks to do but I’m not going to convince you either way. Bottomline, Andrew Little’s an excellent choice for president, he’ll be a great MP in time too (plus I suspect he’d reject pretty much every word you’ve used to describe his motivations as a classic strawman).
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
If you want to be taken seriously Paul don’t talk like a mealy mouth appologist for an organisation that played double standards and is seriously compromised with its political dealings.
You appear to be lost, we don’t buy into party poltical broadcasts here.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
“he’d reject pretty much every word you’ve used to describe his motivations as a classic strawman”
Maybe he would. He’s always free to explain these “motivations’. What do you think they are? Let me tell you-
Once upon a time..
Naah, skip that… let’s go again..
There’s a troll under the bridge. Its name is Capitalism, and its going to leap out from under and devour everyone who attempts to cross to the leftist Nirvana on the other side. Mr Little is the knight in shining armour. He’s going to defeat the troll on behalf of all who wish to cross. Once Mr Little has accomplished his goal, and the troll is vanquished, we’ll all live happily ever after in leftist Nirvana
Am I right?
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Red, why not try to have a discussion rather than engaging in fantastical metaphors? If you’ve got a point, make it, but casting Andrew Little as chief bogeyman in your delusions is just silly.
Murray, I’d reply but I’ve got space for only one ridiculous conversation at a time.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I thought we were having a discussion. I agree its one sided. I’m trying to tell you what is behind my opinions, and you’re just giving me opinions. (paraphrased example- “its just silly and ridiculous”)
You see, you leftists are always the same. You continually tell me I’m wrong, and try to discredit me, and ban my comments from your blogs, but you never ever offer any real defence of my criticism. I’ll tell you why that is. My words are too powerful for you, and they resonate with too many people, and they make you nervous, for you can see readers are provoked to thought by my writing, and you desire that they do not think so.
You desire there are no words and thoughts other than those of the left, and especially from the middle class. Your political objective is to silence and control and eventually destroy the middle class, and Redbaiter is an example of your worst nightmare come true, a member of the middle class who speaks articulately and widely against your ideology and your plans and your ambitions.
You know this is why you seek to discredit me, to ban me from your blogs, to attack me with ridicule. I say the things that should not be said, and the reason they should not be said is that the left know there is no answer to them. This I know, because like yourself here and now, the left have never ever given me an answer.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Tactically, Labour supporters would have voted for the Labour candidate en masse, whereas national supporters would vote for Dunne to deny Labour a shot at the seat.
Stands to reason if Dunne retires, most of his vote will revert to blue. My feeling anyway.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
My words are too powerful for you, and they resonate with too many people, and they make you nervous, for you can see readers are provoked to thought by my writing, and you desire that they do not think so.
That could be it or it could be that you declare everyone left of the extreme right a loon and comment that they’re after your jewels… it’s the crazy strawman arguments that put me off. If your ridiculed, I’d have to say it’s because you tend to use such extreme language. Calling someone a troll under the bridge ’cause they’re in a union is an example perhaps?
I’m not insecure in my political beliefs. They’re pretty ordinary really, centre-left on most issues. Andrew might be to the left of me, I don’t actually know, so I guess I see your hyperbolic criticism of him as critical of what I’d guess are pretty commonly held views. I don’t want your jewels, nor your freedom; I simply think vulnerable workers need a little protection, poorer people decent housing, sick and affirm access to good housing etc etc etc… perhaps when you start to recognise others as having a legitimately different position to you, you’ll attract a less critical reaction?
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:15 pm
That’s been my view but a good friend who’s in the seat reckons the good people of Ohario/Belmont fancy themselves as independents and therefore another indepedent could pick it up… or the right Labour candidate. Charles could well be that candidate and he’ll probably be like Brett Lee bowling to the NZ tail now and fair enough too.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Paul I’d reply but you seem to be too busy taking a hiding and your powerful word intimidate me… ooooo so many syllables, it must be clever stuff.
You will find however that if you wish to “resonate” you’ll be wanting something chamber like that echos.
Yes thats right, we’re just making fun of you now. Good lord check out delusion boy and how impressed with himself he is.
Actually powerful words would look a lot more like “we won, you lost. Didums.”
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Murray, I’d miscoded a quote from one of Red’s posts – those are his words, not mine. See the second sentence of his second paragraph from his posts at 2.24pm…
I almost wish I’d done it on purpose now.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:31 pm
“Calling someone a troll under the bridge ’cause they’re in a union is an example perhaps?”
Why don’t you come back when you’ve scrubbed up on comprehension. Jeez…!!!
“perhaps when you start to recognise others as having a legitimately different position to you,”
The left can never be “legitimate”. They are the guards on the watch towers. We others seek escape from the gulag. I will not discuss with you where the guards should be placed, or what kind of boots they should wear, or what kind of polish they should use on those boots, and how many times they should polish their boots in a day.
All smoke and subterfuge, and in the end, merely an attempt to provide the left with the cloak of legitimacy. As for your critical reaction, I couldn’t care less. I’m winning, and I will continue to win because I speak the truth, and that is what will bring down the cultural walls and watch towers you have built within our societies.
As it did in Berlin where you discovered that walls made from stone would not work, and so you will learn that walls made from words will not work either. I and others like me will destroy your social ascendancy and dismantle your ideology stone by stone by stone and idea by idea by idea. Its just a matter of time.
“I simply think vulnerable workers need a little protection, poorer people decent housing, sick and affirm access to good housing etc etc etc…”
You don’t, for every time you gain power, and have the chance to implement your ideas, all of these things drift further away. You sacrifice these goals to your obsession with political power, always your only real objective.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Sorry Red, stopped reading after this, it’s tragically typical of your posts. You seem incapable of recognising alternative perspectives – that being the case, there’s no point in continuing the discussion.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:51 pm
It is really great that the average Joe Bloggs is these days very aware of the insincerety of political parties.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Sorry Murray, I have to blow my own trumpet, and if I wasn’t hurting them, they’d hardly come after me and the others the way they do. They seek to silence us only because what we say is so damaging to their plans for power. They’ll never admit it though. They’ll always use bad language or impoliteness or accusations of insanity or some other excuse to try and divert attention from the fact that they have no answer to any challenge to their ideas that is not framed in left speak.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
“there’s no point in continuing the discussion.”
Well, that’s really heart breaking. Here I was thinking I might get you to the point where you’d tell me what was good about your ideology. As usual, that point is as far away as ever.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Who are they and how are you being silenced – you’re prolific for crissakes (4539 comments here alone).
You do mock outrage as well as you do compassion Red. I’ve no need to convince you of the merits of my view or to be informed of your’s. I accept that there’s a diverse set of opinions on most matters and don’t claim to be right all the time, nor persecuted, nor oppressed, nor victimised… lucky Murray’s got your back though hey?
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 4:51 pm
“Who are they and how are you being silenced – you’re prolific for crissakes (4539 comments here alone).”
The left, who have done everything possible to shut me down and or discredit me since I started advocating against them in 1999. Initially by organised letter writing campaigns to my ISP. They succeeded in the one instance, but not in the other. The ISP in question was forced to make a public declaration saying the complaining should cease as hell was going to freeze over before they would ban me. (and I am ever grateful to the person who made that declaration and the others who encouraged it).
BTW 4539 comments is testament to my long time reading of and posting at Kiwiblog under the one ID, as well as my determination not to be silenced. I often wonder how many emails Mr. Farrar has had from disgruntled leftists asking that he ban me. Maybe none. Knowing their predisposition for whining tho, I doubt it. I’d say there would be many written like this-
Dear Mr. Farrar,
I have been a long time reader of Kiwiblog but I have decided that due to the fact that Redbaiter posts there I am withdrawing my patronage. He is rude, foul mouthed, ignorant, does not argue the point and only brings the quality and integrity of your site into question. From this point onwards I will be reading sites where contributions from readers have a greater level of sophistication and intelligence. Such as No Right Turn and Just Left. Ooops, they don’t allow comments. Oh well somewhere else then. You know what I mean.
Yours in disgust
Vote:Yet another disgruntled leftist academic fuckwit.
December 1st, 2008 at 4:58 pm
For a moment I thought you were advocating against them by writing letters to your ISP.
I imagine there are many more emails to DPF asking for the removal of Phil U, Sonic et al. Whining is independant of political ideology.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 5:02 pm
“For a moment I thought you were advocating against them by writing letters to your ISP.”
Enjoy your little moment of glory. I would too if I was as desperate as you.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 5:03 pm
God, I’ve blundered into a conspiracy and had no idea… otherwise, what llew said will suffice for me.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Anytime you want your arse handed to you Mr. Williams, you know where to come.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 5:11 pm
What glory? What desperation? That wasn’t a dig at you. I do imagine the more trollish lefties have had more complaints than you, there’s no shortage of whiners here.
Vote:December 1st, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Oh good god, once a victim now a wannabe bully? Which imaginary bike-sheds do you frequent Red and how many self-proclaimed wins do you record?
Vote:December 2nd, 2008 at 8:32 am
James Sleep … we know you are feeling battered and bruised since your ‘beloved’ Denise was ‘dorked’ 51%-32% in Wairarapa but at least do us the courtesy of doing some basic research before opening your trap.
In Ohariu in the Party Vote National scored 46% against Labour’s 33%. You can fairly say that reflects the natural voting pattern in the electorate with Dunne’s vote at the worst splitting 50/50 so as not to make a difference. Hardly in the marginal category with Labour’s Chavell making himself look the prat he is by his claim two weeks ago (in the Backbencher) that Labour had handed over the ‘books’ in good shape – Gueez, they’re lucky the SFO can’t be called in.
Vote: