The fish i caught was the sort of rock cod that’s quite a delicacy, but i didn’t really earn it, just by luck it caught the trolley at the end. Pure luck. I don’t think I would have been able to pull it in if I was handling a rod at the other hand.

If I’m not wrong, then i thought i saw somewhere that you were expecting a baby soon. Congratulations ! My wife is 7 months pregnant with twins as well. I enjoyed the argument, and I’ll pick on you next time on another topic. Until then, take care, mate ! Oh yes, I think it was the women and internet sex blog…now you see why I go fishing-there’s no action at home for a while

NZ does get bitter about the many atrocities around the world, but the difference with Fiji is the perception that we could actually do something about it. NZ has a lot of influence over Fiji.

Certainly some NZers are scared of the ‘yellow peril’ of China, but I think it’s a minority. Personally, I actually like having lots of Chinese people and Chinese goods here, and have no objections to more. Same goes for Fijians.

On wealth, you are extremely trusting that Fiji’s poor recent fortunes will be easy to reverse. I don’t know where you get such confidence. So far there is no progress towards democracy, just deteriorating relations with Fiji’s major trading partners. A bailout by China or India will not come free – it will come with every bit as much colonial meddling as you would expect from Europeans. I would be amazed if native Fijians did well out of it.

The blame for this is not on Fijians. It is not on Fiji being a crappy place. That is not my opinion, do not confuse my views with those of other commentators. The blame is on the coup, and the solution begins with the restoration of democracy. Perhaps you needed a coup, but what you need now is for the dictatorship to end, and good relations with your neighbors to be restored.

Anyways, I won’t talk about the US/Iran issue anymore. I was trying to show that you don’t have your facts right, but enough of that already…

Moving on, let’s say you walk into Iraq (for instance) and ask the blokes there who you think are the culprits. If its the Shi’tes, they’ll say the sunis, the sunis will point blame at the shi’ites and the kurds will point the finger at the sunis. The point being, in any part of the world where there is conflict, if you talk to one group on who’s to blame, they are more likely to point the finger at the other…same story in the balkins, between the albanians, croatians and serbs. The same applies to Fiji. The point being, a new zealander living in fiji married to an indo-fijian will not agree with a new zealander living in christchurch married to a native fijian.

Why a bring up the control issue ? In domestic violence situations men sometimes abuse women, whereas women abuse children. Why? The offending group feels superior to the victim. Now would one necessarily act the same way if it didn’t feel superior, but was equally irritated or even more so with another group ? probably not. In this instance, as Lee stated above, NZ picked on Fiji for its own internal gain. This quarrel really has nothing to do with Fiji. It has more to do with NZ’s internal power struggle. Mr Key is naiive and doesn’t see this, but the “hag” Clark played it like the ace of spades. The worst thing that Fiji will do is cut off all ties, and Clark knows this. But wait a minute, Fiji is hardly the place of major global attrocities. Why doesn’t NZ get vocal about the mass killings in Darfur, or has ever voiced anything against the biggest global threat, islamic radicalism ? because they are not easy going islanders, they will put NZ on the same list as australians and then anything NZ won’t be safe from terrorists. Why pick on a real world threat when you can pick on a little south pacific island that would never even think about causing you any harm, has and always will open its doors for normal/civilian new zealaners, but is on the other hand, a perfect scape goat and cover for clarks failures in NZ ? Who is really creating the monster ? NZ and clark, without a doubt ! How very convenient, mate !!!

Let me tell you a secret. Aus and NZ is scared twits about China’s presence in the south pacific. Why ? The vast space, the uninhabitedness, and more than anything else, china’s hunger to get resources to fuel its exponential growth. The arctic is their mission, diamond, oil, natural gas etc are among their goals. Fiji would be a convenient step in that direction. A complete devastation for NZ’s environmentalist record. And NZ has already proven to be a sis, as i said it picks on weaker nations—meaning, it won’t even have the balls to verbally stop china. NZ is just as addicted to cheaper chinese goods than the rest of the world.

On the matter of law, I do not practice in Fiji, only in the states, where the law is “innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt”, although criminal cases aren’t my specialty. The burden of proof is upon the prosecution. The laws in fiji and NZ of course are quite different, but i have some understanding of it, but only as a normal civilian, i’m no expert. In the US system, court hearing in individual states can have a complete effect based on a similar case at the federal level. Again, I am not familiar with the “colonial” laws, but the point being, if 2 issues are identical, they should certainly be relevant. In this case, its even more relevant because if NZ makes a big deal about Fiji’s problems then it needs a reality check that things are not all honky dorry in NZ, and I know underneath the surface, there is a lot of resentment in Fiji…I guess I’m saying to NZ—”look who’s talking”.

On wealth. I talked about 1987, the first time in fiji’s history that a multicultural government took office. The result was immediate prosperity. That was Fiji at its best and then the right wing bigots couldn’t stand it, and in walked rabuka with a coup (this was racist/pro bigot coup and they have all been as such except this one). BTW, this is the only coup that i agreed with, just in case you were wondering. If there is loss of wealth right now, it is fine. If we have to suffer temporarily to set us up for a good future, then so be it. As I have said before, prosperity is no issue for Fiji. We can diversify in many ways, whereas other islands depend on foreign aid and tourism.

As for the geopolitical designs you have of encouraging an Indian and Chinese presence in the South Pacific, I can’t see why that necessitates breaking off friendly relations with NZ, or why you think NZ would be particularly afraid of it. We have friendly relations with both those countries.

What you don’t have is the eye accounts of your friends on the treatment of minorities in fiji prior to the coup.

You don’t know what I have. Amongst the friends who have lived in Fiji are:
1. Native Fijians
2. Fijian Indians (who are ethnically Indian)
3. Half-caste Fijians (who are ethnically both Fijian and Indian)
4. White NZers who lived in Fiji, married to natives

Conversations with them have given me a picture of quite a lot of the place. I have no illusions that this particular coup was done in about as civilized a way as any coup could be. But it doesn’t matter how civilized you are when you take someone’s rights, the act is still what it is.

I can fully understand that Fijians have a strange view of NZ politics. Maori are certainly poorly represented in all the same statistics that native Fijians seem to be. There is racism here, for sure. And our government does entrench power based on race, by giving seats specifically to Maori. And there were raids on Maori who were talking of attacks on politicians (which have led to no prosecutions and all concerned walked free only a few weeks later). But none of that excuses seizing power in Fiji. As a lawyer (if you really are a lawyer) you must know that you can’t prove innocence by showing the guilt of others on another matter.

Not sure what your point with currency is. Fiji is currently quite a poor country in terms of wealth. I’m sure it is rich in it’s own way, as is NZ. NZ is also poor compared to many countries, but it is a lot richer than Fiji. There are not too many people who would say none of this matters. Having wealth is something everyone can see the point of, especially poor people. You can’t say that the shocking loss of wealth that your dictator has caused is of no consequence.

“There is no parallel between the way NZ treats Fiji and the way the US treats Iran.”

Thats true. Fiji is no threat to anybody. Iran is a terrorist sponsoring Islamo-fascist state that has repeatedly threatened to annihilate Israel and is seeking the nuclear means to do so.

The reason why Helen Clark and Goff were so hard on Fiji was because they thought it made them look tough. Of course when a REAL dictator had to be dealt with (Saddam) they were exposed as mincing limp- wristed cowards.

Beating up on Fiji was just for done solely for domestic propaganda purposes.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about the military, but I also said to read a prior blog, about how radio NZ lied and invented stories regarding the Fiji military, and they were caught doing so ! In NZ ! You have your friends eye accounts. What you don’t have is the eye accounts of your friends on the treatment of minorities in fiji prior to the coup. Of course you won’t see that because there’s no big bad military in uniform holding ak47’s and grenades. Those are things that catch media attention, not the hidden elements that hurt and dehumanize everyday people. Forget about me for a second. Go talk to one of your fellow new zealanders who migrated from fiji and there will tell you about NZ media and political bias. They will tell you that when attrocities happened to minorities in 1987 coup, NZ was hardly as tough with sanctions as it is now dealing with a coup that tries to end bigotry. Of course, its up to NZ in regards to who they see as the bigger culprit and adjust foreign policy accordingly, but in Fiji, the view that’s created is that the New Zealand government is racist, and when we see the treatment of maoris, when law enforcement in nz go into maori areas armed and ready to kill, in further increases that distrust. You are not immune, and are not exactly treating your people on a golden platter, lets be clear about that. Its laughable that you think the government is getting people emotions fired up. Its quite the contrary. People are disappointed that the government has been too patient with NZ’s nuisance.

Currency value says something about a country’s buying power and strength. Do a research on the worth of the fiji dollar just prior to the 1987 coup. It was higher than the american greenback. It is very well known in fiji. and nz’s was nowhere to be seen. bottomline, we are well equipped to reach the skies, much more than many of our neighbours including NZ, but first we have this difficult task of getting rid of bigotry, passing legislation that treats all as equals and when we do have true democracy, move forward with the emerging world minus the sopac 2 !

going fish for barracuda’s…will chat later, ben. have a nice day ! moce.

South Africa at least had some semblance of democracy at the time, and when enough white people started hurting, that might have led to political change. Also, the situation in South Africa was clearly very bad, as everyone could see. Furthermore, they were most likely not far off from all-out civil war and a colossal bloodbath, if things didn’t change.

In Iraq, the sanctions just forced people to rely on Saddam Hussein all the more. They did a huge amount of humanitarian damage to the people of Iraq, and did not topple the government. In the end, they served no good purpose.

I have a feeling that things are going this way in Fiji. Sanctions are a tempting action, because they give the impression that we are doing something to help out a worthy cause (democracy in Fiji). But I don’t think they really are helping, they are just hurting Fijians.

You may bluster all you like about how you don’t need NZ, and sure, you don’t. I don’t need a whole lot of things I’ve got either, but I like to have them, and I want to have them. Fiji is considerably poorer for the sanctions it is receiving, that is a simple fact, an obvious fact.

But unfortunately Fiji is the kind of place where a powerful man like the Commodore can cynically exploit the sanctions to create patriotism, and consolidate his position. He is doing exactly that. He can probably do it indefinitely. Given that he has the entire military behind him, there is no chance of any kind of revolt. Only a foreign invasion could oust him, and that definitely is not a good idea.

Ultimately the problem is that Fiji isn’t well suited to democracy. I think most people there would like it, but they’re not really prepared to fight for it. And those against it are prepared to fight – they joined the army. I think even the army likes the idea of democracy, probably because they see so many rich nations that have it. They just don’t like the practicality. Which is why the place has had coup after coup after coup. It’s not that the democracy is especially rotten, it’s just that any sign of rot is seen as an instant signal that it’s time for a coup.

To that end, you are right in saying NZ is meddling. We could just leave Fiji to be a dictatorship for as long as the Commodore likes. Maybe he’ll give it up after a while and allow elections to his liking. Maybe he’ll just die of a heart attack from too many lamb chops. Who knows? I find it strange that you love the guy who took your liberty and caused your poverty, but then I come from somewhere with a long history of democracy, so maybe that’s just my failure to embrace your way of seeing things.

The Fijians I know did feel quite raw about the what happened, despite being pretty blase before the coup. They didn’t really care if there was a coup – until afterward. Then they lost a hell of a lot of money as the Fijian dollar plummeted, driven mostly by massive international disapproval. Then they lost their jobs, because the business was foreign owned. Very easy to place the blame on the disapproval rather than what caused the disapproval. Especially easy to place the blame on Fiji’s most important friend for all the disapproval. It’s a very easy story to sell, and you’ve bought it.

NZ’s problem is that we’d like to help. It is very, very hard to accept that we actually can’t. Especially when the person telling us is the dictator, rather than the people. Any time the people are asked, of course they want democracy. And they don’t want sanctions. The dictator even tells us he wants democracy, just not the democracy chosen by the people. When it is pointed out that this is an obviously contradictory position, we are told we simply don’t understand. Which is true. We don’t.

It doesn’t matter what I can prove about US intentions in this argument, nor did I say that the US intends to use them. I suggested that they threaten to use them. Only a fool will quibble with this obvious point. The mere having of nuclear weapons is a threat to use them.

You say you love democracy, but then you run it down as being the system of mass murderers. Which is it? You must choose. Or do you just choose to love democracy so long as you DON’T have it?

You want NZ out of Fiji. But NZ is not in Fiji. NZ merely has policy towards Fiji, as it does to pretty much every nation on the planet that it recognizes. Our current policy is to not condone dictatorship, and to not trade so freely. This is OUR right. It is not something Fiji has a right to, it is something they earned, and have now lost, and can earn back if they want. And they DO want it, I don’t care how much you reckon they don’t.

As Kimble says, being a Harvard Law graduate doesn’t make you any less capable of being a crony. If it is true, which I doubt, since you can’t argue worth a damn. But even if it is true, you would surely be aware that most high up cronies are people of education.

I’m curious what you think I wrote about the military that is mythical. Please quote me on it. Go on, law boy, find some evidence. So far as I can see, I said the military seized power. Which is not even denied by your boss. And it certainly tallies strongly with the eye witness testimony given by my friends who were living in Fiji right at the time it happened. Yes, it was a bloodless coup, because it was the military doing it. Who in their right mind would fight the army? Sure, that’s more civilized than a bloodbath, but it’s still less civilized than waiting until the next election, which is what democracy actually MEANS. Holding a gun to someone’s head is still a crime, even if you don’t pull the trigger.

Each of your list above is amusing but those numbers were there before fiji’s first coup-so your argument is full of you know what.
#’s 1, 2 and 3, we’re working on fixing, and in regards to #2, 3rd grade NZ lamb chops has been a factor. would you kindly tell me where you got the fiji stats from, whats your source ? That matters gravely. Now as for #4 GDP is irrelevant. Your cost of living is way higher. How much does rent cost in a decent place in wellington, in fiji, its $200 a month approx, $50 a week. That number 27k is way low for a supposed european settled colonial country. I know you’re really full of it when you claim the 3.6% unemployment rate for NZ, because unemployent rate by defn includes people who are not able to work, such as the elderly, so 3.6 suggest a 0% unemployment rate in reality- B/S ! In fiji, its customary for most women to not work outside of the house. that 7.6 is hardly shocking.

plentiful natural resources ? we have proven reserves of oil in fiji waters, and we have gold mines. what do you have ? the worms of waitomo caves ?

Here’s some things about fiji
1) Fiji has Vijay Singh, world’s #2 golfer behind tiger woods (generally speaking) and among one of the wealthiest sports fiqures in the world.

2) 300 islands- most uninhabited, and we don’t have to freeze our asses when we take a dip.

3) The largest garment industry in the southern hemisphere

4) Among the best brains in the south pacific. That includes some of your mp’s. why don’t you pick 10 of new zealand best 12th grade students and have them write an exam in a classroom with 10 of fiji’s best. lets see who scores best.

5) We don’t harrass our native chiefs unlike the police raids at gunpoint on the hapless maori.

I’m loving this, i really am, but i am going fishing the whole day tommorrow, but would love to fire away when i return. chat with you day after tommorrow, mate.

oh yes, i prefer white zinfendel as supposed to kava, thanks for asking

Ben Wilson – in what I think was your first post you ask why it is taking so long to have things ready for democratic elections if Bainimaram is genuine in what he says. There are I think two main issues with this:

1 The geography – Fiji consists of 322 islands of which 106 are inhabited. Consultation and getting information is therefore time consuming and difficult even in 2008.

2. Seldom are matters of such importance rushed in Fiji. When I lived in Suva there was a saying that things were done in `Fiji time’ and I have no doubt this applies at the moment.

As I said in an earlier post Fiji is a proud nation. They do not take kindly to being pushed around and given deadlines by people who think they know what is best for them – the typical nanny state of the past Labour Government. However get alongside them, encourage and assist and most times they will resond.

Unfortunately Clark, Goff, Peters and co have probably taken things past the point of no return. It will be a real test of John Keys people skills to get them back onside. The rancour in the posts of NZ_outtaFiji are clear evidence of this.

Of course people had heard of Fiji, given the decades iof good press it has received. It is a tropical island! New Zealand is a stodgy, cold place. The ignorance of Canadians when it comes to geography doesnt make your case.

The question is, did they give a crap that democracy has been flushed down the toilet in Fiji? Did they know? Were you proud to tell them?

“Who would care if a coup occured in NZ?”

A coup isnt very likely in NZ. We have a grown-up political system. But I doubt many people would care. Again, you dont score any points with this argument. Get it? Your argument is pointless.

“I think you have to get off this false sense that a cowherding island with no vast natural resources that continuously struggles with its high unemployment, inflation and low currency value is of enormous value to the world.”

I never said that it was. You lose again.

Oh, and it is sheep herding, there are plentiful natural resources, unemployment is low, inflation is low, currency is irrelvant.

But if you REALLY want some interesting facts:

1) Infant mortailty – Fiji 1.19%, NZ 0.50%
2) Life expectancy – Fiji 70.4 years, NZ 80.2 years
3) expected years education – Fiji 13 years, NZ 19 years
4) GDP per capita – Fiji $3900, NZ $27200
5) Unemployment – Fiji 7.6%, NZ 3.6%

Some of these need to be updated, but they wont change enough to make Fiji look better than NZ.

Oh, one more

6) democratically elected government – Fiji 0, NZ 1

Kava or the internet, NZ_outtaFIJI, you should use only one at a time.

You’re right about the second argument. which is why Frank called a radio station in auckland and fired up the fijian ex pat base prior to your recent election.

And yes surprise surprise i partially agree with the last phrase also. helen had the power taken from her and she sure looks like she’s about to croak any minute. And she never really got that bad teeth fixed did she ? Deranged lady-walks into a whorehouse called the “whitehouse” in aucklands queen street and thought she was meeting with the president hehehe.

I want that too. Life is too short to waste on pathetic little wannabe nations, their dictatorial leaders, and the moronic delusional accolytes they surround themselves with.

“If i’m a crony, I must be the first crony graduate of Harvard Law School …”

No, you would be, like, the millionth.

“If things are normal in Fiji, only a total idiot would want to leave the best place on earth.”

How could the best place on earth possibley contain a fetid hole like Nadi?

Not really. Fiji is the South Pacific equivalent of those central African nations that nobody has ever heard of, and who no one really cares about, that swings between civil war and coup every few years. It isnt affecting everyone else in the world so nobody cares.

Only its neighbours bother to deal with them. Hello.

“THAT IS THE PRIMARY BASIS FOR THE HATRED TOWARDS NEW ZEALAND—interference in our political struggles.”

Durrr… it is called foreign policy. Where do you think the “pol” part of the word comes from?

If dear old Franky-Wanky is going to make everything better then he better get a hurry on, because the longer he waits the harder it will be to restore democracy.

Given what he has done so far, and the similarity of that to what other dictators have done, I think reasonable people can expect him to act like them. They held onto power until it was ripped from their dying grasp, and they caused more suffering for their people than could ever be blamed on “colonialism”.

That you hate democracy is obvious. That you think Bainimarama is a messiah is obvious. That you think someone else is to blame for your troubles is obvious. That you are wrong on every score is also obvious.

Clark supported the elected government. Clark refused to support the armed overthrow of that. Clark would have supported another government if it were elected BUT IT NEVER WAS. This is also the position of Key. You seem to expect the government and the people of NZ to support someone whose only way of getting power is to seize it at gunpoint. Well sorry buddy THAT is what the Mafia do, not ‘refuse to trade with them’. We have no evidence of his universal support because any opponents are too scared to speak out, and independent media are now being kicked out too, and there have been no elections with him as a candidate.

ARE YOU BLIND? Or a crony? You sound like a crony.

Hating NZ will not solve anything at all for you or your country. Except that it might consolidate the power of your glorious leader, who is presiding over the catastrophic destruction of your economy, wielding power with a gun, and teaching you to love it. Wake up man.