Obama lawsuit dismissed by Supreme Court
The Supreme Court has declined to hear a challenge to the citizenship status of Barack Obama. Hopefully this is the end of the issue. Mind you, I don’t know why the authorities in Hawaii don’t let people see the original birth certificate, just to make this go away.
But the record is very clear that he was born in Hawaii, and two years after Hawaii was a state.
Talking of Obama, he officially gets elected on December 15 by the electoral college, and them confirmed by the House of Reps in early January.
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Tags: Barack Obama, United States
December 9th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
DPF – it it was you, wouldnt you just release a copy yourself and save the grief?
“here ya go guys, cheers”
December 9th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Two thoughts, Dime.
(1) Would that really have satisfied the conspiracy theorists … a piece of paper that can so easily be faked?
(2) Why should he? I hereby allege Bill English (or any other MP -doesn’t matter really) is the Pope’s son, and therefore not a NZ citizen and so not entitled to sit in Parliament. Why won’t he release his birth certificate to counter my claim? It must be true!
December 9th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Oops! just read DPF’s link:
“While the Obama team has largely dismissed questions about his citizenship, the persistence of the questions drove the campaign in June to make public his birth certificate. It shows, among other things, that he was born in a Honolulu hospital at 7:42 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961.”
Point proved, I guess!
December 9th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I’m pretty sure it’s a Joint Session.
[checks Twelfth Amendment]
Yep.
[DPF: Oh yes so it is. But if there are objections, they get considered by the House for P and Senate for VP]
December 9th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
“Point proved, I guess!”
Not so. The one that would prove the point is the one he refuses to release for public scrutiny. The Long Form Birth certificate held on file in the Hawaiian hospital that most likely specifies he was born in Kenya. As Mr. Farrar says, why on earth wouldn’t he release it?. Why would he put his whole presidency under a cloud, and risk being labeled an impostor, when the solution is so simple. All people are asking him to do is release the original long form birth certificate.
This is a constitutional issue. It is not going to go away.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
It really doesn’t matter with these nutters. That’s why they’ve bought into the theory in the 1st place.
“There’s no amount of evidence or data that will change somebody’s mind,” says Michael Shermer, who is the publisher of Skeptic magazine and a columnist for Scientific American, and who holds an undergraduate and a master’s degree in psychology. “The more data you present a person, the more they doubt it … Once you’re committed, especially behaviorally committed or financially committed, the more impossible it becomes to change your mind.”
Any inconvenient facts are irrelevant. People who believe in a conspiracy theory “develop a selective perception, their mind refuses to accept contrary evidence,” Chip Berlet, a senior analyst with Political Research Associates who studies such theories, says. “As soon as you criticize a conspiracy theory, you become part of the conspiracy.”
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/05/birth_certificate/index.html
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/09/birth_certificate/
December 9th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Actually, this is not the case that really counts. Alan Key’s case is the important one.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Perhaps he was actually born on the Moon which is why Nasa fabricated the landings?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
“This is a constitutional issue. It is not going to go away.”
Yes it will. That’s why there’s a Supreme Court. It will reject these nutbar claims, and then they’ll disappear off into a few blogsites. The real world will then get on with life.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
“It will reject these nutbar claims,”
What makes them nutbar? Obama is the one behaving irrationally. If he was born in the US, as he claims, he only needs to release the Long Form BC to public scrutiny. Why won’t he? One could just imagine commies like you being so understanding if the President Elect was a Republican. Gawd you people are frauds.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Oh yes, Redbaiter is the really savvy one here. The case is not going to go away you know, it’s a ‘constitutional issue’ now you know. The REALLY important case (a bit of real insider knowledge here) is the Alan Key’scase.
What a croc.
Maybe kiwi in america can come in and give us the low down on how joe six pack’s feeling. I’m sure he’s deeply interested in this issue.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Illydois, your frantic mission to label those who merely want to see the long form birth certificate as insane says more about you’re own desperate insanity than anything else.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
The fact that *only* scary, obsessed little idealogues like you Red are hanging on to them for dear life like a dog with a bone, in dark, sweaty, paranoid little corners of the internet, is what makes them nutbar claims.
Or perhaps the US Supreme Court is also part of the global socialist world domination conspiracy…?
You’re gonna have to get a lot of guns if you want to sort out all of the dirty corrupt lefties who YOU THINK are standing between you and “the truth” or “liberty” or whatever your mania of the week is
December 9th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
“It will reject these nutbar claims … What makes them nutbar?”
Mainly the people advancing them.
But it’s easy enough. As you’re so sure you’re right, and I’m so sure I am, we’ll put something on the line.
If the Supreme Court even accepts Keyes case for full hearing, I will cease posting on this website. If it doesn’t, you will. Now put up, or shut up.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I only have to read you Redbaiter and I feel entirely rational and not in any way desparate.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
AG – difference is, your theory wouldnt make it to the supreme court.
why is it always a nutjob conspiracy theory??? like the time the left got busted using fake documents to slam bush? anyone remember that? military records from 1970… that used a font first created in 1978…
December 9th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
“why is it always a nutjob conspiracy theory??? ”
Sigh. ‘Cause it is nutjob conspiracy fantasists who invent them. Who may be of the left or the right. It’s a personality disorder, not an ideological position.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
“If the Supreme Court even accepts Keyes case for full hearing, I will cease posting on this website. If it doesn’t, you will. Now put up, or shut up.”
You really are such a facile little clown. I have no faith at all that the Supreme Court will allow Alan Key’s request. They might, they might not. I hope they do. Whatever, you challenge to a wager once again merely demonstrates the pitiful weakness of your comprehensive abilities.
Full of bluster, denigration and hate, not one of you simple minded leftists will address the question. Please tell me. Why won’t he release the long form certificate?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
You are a mate of sonic’s AG? I think I spotted you at Hitch’s blog or was it Harry’s?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
RB at 4:53
“Actually, this is not the case that really counts. Alan Key’s case is the important one.”
RB at 5:13
“I have no faith at all that the Supreme Court will allow Alan Key’s request.”
20 minutes from go to whoa. Does this guy even read what he writes?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I’m not KiA but I am *a* Kiwi in America. Issue doesn’t get much traction in the media here. I have seen in mentioned on Drudge once or twice. Most people seem to figure that if there was an underlying issue that the GOP would be pushing the cases or at least finding some respectable proxies, whereas the impression of the people bringing the cases is that they fit the conspiracy theorist mold. That all said, I wish that Hawaii would just release the certificate.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
“Please tell me. Why won’t he release the long form certificate?”
Why should he? Obama has been in the public eye in America for years. His mother’s maiden name is none of your damn business. Any more than who Helen Clark sleeps with was ever any of your business. Why don’t you prove your NZ citizenship? Prove that you’re in employment, so that I know your comments about dole bludgers are not rank hypocrisy. Go on. I demand it. I demand proof. Hurry up.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
d4j
I’m a one blog kinda guy. There’s nothing quite like this place for sheer lunatic fun.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Agreed AG, looked in the mirror lately, socialism is starting to crack. How is sonic these days?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“20 minutes from go to whoa. Does this guy even read what he writes?”
Really!!! As if yet another demonstration of your crippled comprehension skills was necessary.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
“Why should he?”
Hahhahah. There you go. Leftists are always so sane and rational. The evidence is right there in Ratbiter’s extremely logical explanation. The POTUS has to be a Natural Born Citizen you simian fool. Its a Constitutional requirement.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Redbaiter the lefty twitters are slow fucks.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
d4j
“How is sonic these days?”
I am not trying to be cute, but I have no idea what you are talking about.
And RB – that was lame. Best to quit this one – you’re at the bottom.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
“you’re at the bottom.”
Always amazes me that you leftists are so stupid you think such partisan pronouncements are worth making. Where would the Labour Party be without the surfeit of morons that exist in our society?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
“The POTUS has to be a Natural Born Citizen you simian fool.”
In that case, he will have to fill in form 7436-B (or whatever) and tick all of those boxes when he is officially sworn in. No nutbar hysteria required. He does not owe you an explanation. Get over yourself.
And “POTUS” – really, a beautiful acronym. Some days I think you’re a POTUS – A POTUS on the POTUS of humanity…
December 9th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
“I am not trying to be cute, but I have no idea what you are talking about.”
Show me a cute lefty and I show you a print out that Miss Klark passed the lie detector test.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
RatB,
ironic thing is that McCain wasn’t even born in a U.S. state – he was born in the military zone of Panama. But I guess he doesn’t have an Islamic middle name, so that’s OK.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
WND OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL
Will Supremes review citizenship arguments?
Lawsuit: Even with a valid birth certificate, ‘he still wouldn’t be eligible to be president’
Posted: December 05, 2008
10:00 pm Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Roger Bredow and demonstrators protesting before the U.S. Supreme Court
With protesters gathering and praying on the front steps, the U.S. Supreme Court met in conference today to discuss whether or not to hear a case challenging Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president.
“Obama was born a dual citizen,” protester Roger Bredow told the Washington, D.C., local events blog, DCist. “British, and a citizen of the United States, at birth.”
According to Bredow – and the case the Supreme Court reviewed today – dual citizenship makes Obama ineligible to take the oath of office.
Where’s the proof Barack Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the “natural-born American” clause in the Constitution? If you still want to see it, sign WND’s petition demanding the release of his birth certificate.
The case of Leo C. Donofrio v. New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells, which claims Obama does not meet the Constitution’s Article 2, Section 1 “natural-born citizen” requirement for president, was initially denied a hearing by Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter, but Justice Clarence Thomas agreed to bring it back for review today.
In order to go forward in the process, the case needs four of the Supreme Court’s nine justices to approve a full hearing.
(Story continues below)
Bredow created a YouTube video inviting supporters to travel to Washington, D.C., and join him in urging the Supreme Court to hear the Donofrio case.
“If I’m going to be honest with you,” Bredow confessed, “I thought I might be the only person here.”
DCist contributor Dave Weigel reported roughly 15 to 20 people showed up for the rally.
“There aren’t a lot of people out here today,” said Steve Brindle, who drove into the capital from Pennsylvania. “There are a lot of people talking about this back home. Really, everyone’s asking questions.”
Donofrio’s questions began months ago.
Donofrio’s original suit sought a court order to stop the Nov. 4 presidential election. When that was denied, he amended his complaint to stop the Electoral College from certifying Obama as the winning candidate when it meets Dec. 15.
Unlike many of the lawsuits regarding Obama’s “natural-born citizen” status, the Donofrio case makes no allegation that Obama was born on foreign soil. Instead, Donofrio contends Obama was a British citizen at birth, because of citizenship in a British colony, Kenya.
“Don’t be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues,” Donofrio writes on his Natural Born Citizen blog. “They are irrelevant to Senator Obama’s ineligibility to be president. Since Barack Obama’s father was a citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama’s birth, then Senator Obama was a British citizen ‘at birth.’”
Obama’s Fight the Smears website confirms that Donofrio is correct about the Democrat’s citizenship at birth, but says his dual citizenship with Britain expired, leaving him with only American citizenship.
Donfrio, however, contends that the Constitution was written in such a way to exclude dual citizens like Obama.
“The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth,” Donofrio writes, “were also British citizens, and that’s why the Framers declared that, while they were citizens of the United States, they themselves were not ‘natural born citizens.’”
“Therefore,” Donofrio summarizes, “even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on U.S. soil, he still wouldn’t be eligible to be president.”
As WND has reported, Donofrio’s case is only one of several filed around the country challenging Obama’s eligibility to be elected president under the Constitution.
Last month WND reported worries over a “constitutional crisis” that could be looming over the issue of Obama’s citizenship.
WND senior reporter Jerome Corsi even traveled to Kenya and Hawaii prior to the election to investigate issues surrounding Obama’s birth. But his research and discoveries only raised more questions.
The biggest question is why Obama, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists as his campaign has stated, simply hasn’t ordered it made available to settle the rumors.
The governor’s office in Hawaii said there is a valid certificate but rejected requests for access and left ambiguous its origin: Does the certificate on file with the Department of Health indicate a Hawaii birth or was it generated after the Obama family registered a Kenyan birth in Hawaii?
Obama’s half-sister, Maya Soetoro, has named two different Hawaii hospitals where Obama could have been born. There have been other allegations that Obama actually was born in Kenya during a time when his father was a British subject.
Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others filed a court petition in California asking the secretary of state to refuse to allow the state’s 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office.
The California action was filed by Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation on behalf of Keyes, the presidential candidate of the American Independent Party, along with Wiley S. Drake and Markham Robinson, both California electors.
“Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void, Petitioners, as well as other Americans, will suffer irreparable harm in that (a) usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal,” the action challenges.
The popular vote Nov. 4 favored Obama over Sen. John McCain by several percentage points. But because of the distribution of the votes, Obama is projected to take the Electoral College vote by a 2-to-1 margin.
The California case states, “There is a reasonable and common expectation by the voters that to qualify for the ballot, the individuals running for office must meet minimum qualifications as outlined in the federal and state Constitutions and statutes, and that compliance with those minimum qualifications has been confirmed by the officials overseeing the election process,” the complaint said, when in fact the only documentation currently required is a signed statement from the candidate attesting to those qualifications.
“Since [the secretary of state] has, as its core, the mission of certifying and establishing the validity of the election process, this writ seeks a Court Order barring SOS from certifying the California Electors until documentary proof that Senator Obama is a ‘natural born’ citizen of the United States of America is received by her,” the document said.
“This proof could include items such as his original birth certificate, showing the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor, all of his passports with immigration stamps, and verification from the governments where the candidate has resided, verifying that he did not, and does not, hold citizenship of these countries, and any other documents that certify an individual’s citizenship and/or qualification for office.
The “certification of live birth” posted by the Obama campaign cannot be viewed as authoritative, the case alleges.
“Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence,” the document said. “The only way to know where Senator Obama was actually born is to view Senator Obama’s original birth certificate from 1961 that shows the name of the hospital and the name and signature of the doctor that delivered him.”
The case also raises the circumstances of Obama’s time during his youth in Indonesia, where he was listed as having Indonesian citizenship. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, raising the possibility of Obama’s mother having given up his U.S. citizenship.
Any subsequent U.S. citizenship then, the case claims, would be “naturalized,” not “natural-born.”
WND’s petition is available online, and more information is available at this link.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Hi Compy !
December 9th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
FFS Jastowns!
Post a link, why can’t you, not the entire article … or get your own blog!!!
December 9th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
“He does not owe you an explanation.”
Spoken with all of the arrogance, ignorance and stupidity that characterises your contributions here. Obama owes the American public the irrevocable proof that he is an American citizen, and this proof can only come from the long form birth certificate. I say again, if this was a Republican President elect, the “Bush stole the election” left would be screaming their heads off.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Yes the leftist controlled media is strangely silent over the birth certificate fiasco?Ummm???
December 9th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I’ve stated before that I believe that Obama was born in Hawaii. I also stated last week that the Denofrio case was likely to fail. It was hastily filed to beat the 4 Nov election deadline and involved a raft of messy procedural errors at the NJ Supreme Court end that would make a clear cut unambiguous SCOTUS appeal a long shot for the full court even at a procedural level let alone the merits of the case. The full court did indeed review the case, they failed to refer the case further for oral arguments. A 2nd case suing the Connecticut SOS was accepted for full conference today on the 12th of Dec but that’s usually done so as to kill a case so that appellants dont pepper the same case one by one around all the justices. Denofrio is assisting counsel on the CT case – commentators who know these things believe it is more clearly argued and has no messy lower court referral issues as with the case with the NJ case. I believe it will suffer the same fate as the NJ case.
I maintain that it is odd that Obama has engaged the service of THREE top flight DC law firms to fight all these cases when the simple production of the original vault long form certificate would end all speculation as was the case when McCain produced his long form vault BC when his eligibility was questioned. Redbaiter is right – the Keyse case carries more weight in that he was a candidate for President. Note that all these suits are merely asking the various State Secretaries of State to verify eligibility by production of the vault BC. Keyse goes further and co-joins all the California state Obama Electoral College electors in an interesting constitutional twist.
As DPF rightfully observes, Obama could simply allow the Hawaii Governor or head of their Human and Health Services Department (that manage HI BCs) to release the vault BC. These cases (and there are 3 others pending) would collapse in a nano second. What is he hiding? Why the time and expense of fighting multiple cases?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
“if this was a Republican President elect, the “Bush stole the election” left would be screaming their heads off.”
And once again, he’s wrong. Before the election, the Senate unanimously (that means everyone voted yes, RB) passed a resolution (introduced by 2 Democrats) recognising McCain’s right to be President, despite his being born in Panama.
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200804/041008c.html
Bloody reality and its liberal bias!!!!
December 9th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
What makes them nutbar? Obama is the one behaving irrationally. If he was born in the US, as he claims, he only needs to release the Long Form BC to public scrutiny. Why won’t he?
Hawaii’s department of health has released Obama’s birth certificate in exactly the same way it releases any other citizen’s. A birth certificate is generated, printed and provided. Unfortunately, the system does not take account of nutjobs who will not accept a document that is recognised as prima facie evidence of birthplace in any US court, and which has further been specifically vouchsafed by senior state officials.
But congratulations on aligning yourself with the 9/11 truthers and creepy anti-semites pursuing these claims. That’s so classy.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Russell,
Good god man … what’s a classy guy like you doing in these climes? It’s like seeing my family priest in a whorehouse.
Wait … maybe that’s not as surprising as I first thought …
December 9th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
“Hawaii’s department of health has released Obama’s birth certificate”
It has not Mr. Brown. It has released a modern summary of his original Birth certificate. Most of the important information has been omitted. You’re sadly uninformed, and until you get informed, I’d advise you to drop the air of patronising arrogance.
..and please tell me Mr. Brown, why is Obama employing a team of expensive lawyers to prevent public viewing of the original certificate. Answer that question please.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
“Full of bluster, denigration and hate”
“all of the arrogance, ignorance and stupidity that characterises your contributions here.”
And how would you honestly characterise your own rantings, Red?
December 9th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
mccain was born on a US militry base which makes him a US citizen
mccain,,,,,,, obama are the same they are both owned by the same people there never was a left or right wake up
December 9th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
“what’s a classy guy like you doing in these climes?”
Yes I was rather surprised AG to spot the owner of the Paris Hilton blog? Hi Wussell.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
AG
The Senate resolution on McCain’s situation was nothing more than a “sense of the Senate” and was not what resolved the issue of McCain’s eligibility. McCain’s long form BC stated that he was born to parents who were both natural born US citizens, that his father was on active duty in the US Navy and that he was born in a US Navy hospital. It was the revelation of those facts put the issue to rest because, under the Constitution and SCOTUS upheld cases since, children born to natural born citizen parents on US military bases are deemed to have been born on US soil thus meeting the 2nd Article and 14th Amendment criteria for being “natural born”. The production of the vault BC ended the confusion.
All Obama has to do is do the same – its very simple.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
“And how would you honestly characterise your own rantings, Red?”
If you’ve got nothing to say on the issue, I suggest you fuck off and not clutter the thread with your silly partisan judgments.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
If there are two forms, and you have released the easier one, and it is only a little bit harder to produce the longer form, why would you then go to enormous expense to avoid releasing the it?
Why didnt John Kerry ever release his military record, even after he said he would? We can all guess the most likely reason; it contained information that was embarassing to him.
The same with Obama. Release the information and kill the issue. It is the most logical thing to do.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
KIA says..it is odd that Obama has engaged the service of THREE top flight DC law firms to fight all these cases
Really , Obama isnt ‘fighting’ these cases as they dont involve him personally.
The nut jobs are suing the people who hold the birth records or register the candidates who run for election and so on.
see this site which lists the actual court file that was dismissed tday
No big law firm representing Obama
http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
December 9th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
kia,
agreed – but my point was when confronted with the opportunity to manufacture a dispute over McCain’s eligibility on spurious grounds, the democrats passed it up (cf RB’s assertions). If only the right could be as principled. If only. Sigh.
By the way, kia … are you really a kiwi? Could we have a pdf please? I think you owe it to the rest of us.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
OK, Red – here we go. Unlike you, I don’t believe the “issue” is an issue. And even if Obama did release his long-form BC, I get the feeling from your increasingly rabid posts that you wouldn’t be satisfied then either. I’m neither for Obama nor against him, I’ll believe he’s a worthwhile politician based on his performance, but it’s his performance that I’ll base my judgement on, not which party he belongs to. And please don’t tell me to fuck off unless you’re willing to say it to my face.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
As I see it, Brown and AG can only defend their case by giving reasons why Obama might be unwilling to release the information. So far I have seen two, 1) because it wont answer EVERYONES questions, and 2) he doesnt have to.
The second one is idiotic to say the least, and the first reason is pretty lame too.
Are the any other more reasonable explanations for Obama’s behaviour?
December 9th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Leftists are foaming at the mouth here because they cannot answer the simple question that is at the core of the issue. As usual, they attempt to deflect from this inability with bluster and personal attacks on their opponents. All they have to do is state why, when it is a constitutional requirement that Obama be a natural born citizen, he refuses to release the document that will prove this.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Bearhunter. Go away. You have said nothing on the issue and I’m not interested in your bleeding heart self indulgent biographies. Narcissist.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Redbaiter may not be satisfied with the long form birth certificate, but I would.
I was happy with the shorter form, before I knew about the longer form and that it may contain something different.
The more Obama lets this go on, the more reasonable people like myself will question why.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Kimble.
Yes.
No-one who counts cares. He’s setting up a new government in the midst of an economic meltdown. So why would he waste his time on this issue?
PS: Before you say “so why is he fighting it in court”, see jvh’s post above. Apparently he isn’t.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Russell Brown
Please get your facts straight. There is a difference between a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) which is a computer generated copy of the birth record issued by the state of HI and the vault long form ORIGINAL BC. It is the former that Obama released and posted on his website and the Daily Kos. It is the latter that these law suits seek to have produced. The difference between the two – 4 fields of additional information not in a COLB but on the vault original including the hospital he was born at and the name of the attending physician.
The COLB also reflects any name changes (done by legal deed poll) since the birth. In the case of Obama there are two known changes – his first name from Barry to Barack and his surname from Obama to Soetero (his adopted Indonesian father and his mother’s second husband) and back to Obama. Likely nothing sinister in all that. I believe Obama’s challenge is that if the vault original says Barry Seotero, the media will then begin to dig around when he was and wasn’t an Indonesian citizen. That is the grey area he seeks to avoid in my opinion. I don’t have enough expertise to begin to know what eligibility issues he might have if he had become an Indonesian citizen. His mother enrolled him at an Indonesian school when he was 8 (a fact on the public record) and the LA Times posted on their website a copy of the enrollment form that listed his citizenship as Indonesian. Was that true or his mother merely shading the truth to get him in to the school? Did he ever have an Indonesian passport? Who knows? What is the legal impact if he did? How was he able to travel to Pakistan in 1981 when US passort holders were barred from entry at that time?
My point is that we ought to have the debate. What is there to hide if there is nothing untoward? I reject the notion that he was born in Kenya – the interview with the evangelical minister was only half reported – the ‘grandmother’ clarified that she was not present at his birth as is claimed by some. The issue Denofrio raises, that of British citizenship by descent from his father, I have no idea of the constitutional impact. We’ll soon know as the SCOTUS will consider the CT case argued from the same angle. If the SCOTUS reject that appeal then it has no impact – end of story.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
RB, I am going, you’ll be pleased to hear. I’ll be in the pub if you’d like to try speaking to me in person. Francoli’s in Ellerslie from 7.30 for about three hours. Drop in, say hi, have a pint and wind your fucking neck in.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
“So why would he waste his time on this issue?”
Hahhha. yeah, it would take so long for him to release the birth certificate. A three minute phone call would really interfere with his schedule. Especially seeing he’s on holiday there at the moment. Leftists.. pfft, do they ever have a rational thought among the lot of them??
December 9th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
“Drop in, say hi, have a pint …”
Would anyone REALLY want to deal with a drunk RB?
December 9th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
AG
Im a dual national – I cant be POTUS or NZ Prime Minister!!
December 9th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
RB,
Bet he doesn’t even know some people think this is an issue.
“Mr President Elect, the nation’s auto makers need billion dollar bailouts, India and Pakistan are close to war, you have to choose an entire cabinet, and some conservative weirdos are not satisfied with the short form birth certificate evidence of your citizenship and so want the long form released from Hawaii’s vaults to check and see that you are allowed to be President.”
Yep – that’s how his daily briefings will go.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
kia,
Yes, you can be NZ PM (if you are a NZ citizen).
Need to get elected first, but.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
“Would anyone REALLY want to deal with a drunk RB?”
Would one of you obfuscating commies please provide a rational answer to the question of why Obama will not release his original birth certificate. Every other Presidential candidate has found the time..
December 9th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
OK. RB. You win.
He’s not human. He’s actually one of the mole people, sent to the earth’s crust to spearhead their impending invasion and subjugation of all humanity.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Electors are sworn to uphold it with their vote on December 15th in
the Electoral College. But they must fi rst know for sure that the candidates meet
the Constitutional requirements for the offi ce of President beginning with being a
natural born citizen.
That’s what Philip J. Berg has asked the United States Supreme Court to verify.
The Supreme Court has asked for a response from Senator Barack Obama along
with the Democratic National Committee and Federal Elections Commission.
And they have until December 1st to respond. Other cases have been fi led asking
for the same thing.
Not extreme. Not fringe. Just Constitutional.
Obama says he’s qualifi ed. But, Berg, multiple legal suits and a growing number
of American citizens are saying: “Prove it.” A basic, vital and Constitutional
request.
Why won’t Obama answer such a simple and essential request?
Exhibit A: The Grandmother’s tape
Barack Obama’s own grandmother said he was born in Kenya. While politicians
are known for it, grandmothers seldom lie. It’s recorded on tape:
“I was in the delivery room in [Mombosa,] Kenya, when he was born
Aug. 4, 1961.” – Sarah Obama, Obama’s paternal grandmother
Exhibit B: No Original Birth Certifi cate
Experts have called the Certifi cation of Live Birth posted online a forgery.
Berg reported “It’s clearly been altered,” which invalidates it, according to
the document itself. Add to this the Hawaiian law at the time which allowed
people to register for this non-hospital short form certifi cate (without a doctor’s
signature) up to one year from the date of the child’s birth.
Exhibit C: Indonesian citizenship
Only Indonesian citizens could attend Indonesian schools at the time Barack
Obama attended the Indonesian school where he was registered as Barry
Soetoro. His citizenship was listed as Indonesian, his religion as Islam, and his
father as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was also no dual citizenship at the time. If
he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, he would have forfeited any U.S.
citizenship he may have had, just as when a child is adopted in America, he or
she becomes an American.
Exhibit D:
U.S. Law
In addition,
according
to U.S. law
pertaining to
births abroad,
from “Dec. 24,
1952, to Nov.
13, 1986,”
in order to
register the
child’s birth
as a U.S.
natural-born
citizen at the
time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be: 1. Born to two U.S. citizen
parents; OR 2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that
parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least fi ve of
which must be after the age of 14.
Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was
only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S.
residency for at least fi ve years after the age of 14.
Either the Constitution matters or it doesn’t.
If we are willing to ignore the constitutional requirements for the highest offi ce
in our land, what else are we willing to forgo? That part about free speech?
Freedom of the press? Freedom of religion?
1. Sign the form below and send it in or sign the petition on the website
http://www.ObamaCrimes.com
2. Call your Congressional Representative at: 202-224-3121. Ask them to
verify that the Constitutional requirements have been met and request
them to conduct Congressional hearings immediately.
3. Pray for all of the hidden things to come to light and call on the media to
report this Constitutional crisis.
4. Donate to help defend our Constitution.
Philip J. Berg, Esq., 555 Andorra Glen Court, Suite 12, Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-2531 http://www.ObamaCrimes.com
The United States Constitution
Article II, Section 1 includes these words:
“No person except a natural born citizen, or a
citizen of the United States, at the time of the
adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to
the offi ce of President; neither shall any person be
eligible to that offi ce who shall not have attained to
the age of thirty fi ve years, and been fourteen Years
a resident within the United States.”
December 9th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
“He’s not human. He’s actually one of the mole people,”
Yawn, your self aggrandizement is just infantile and boring AG. Not funny. Leave this thread. Do something useful. Get around to Russell’s place and shine his shoes for him. Lapdog.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
AG
Dual national – UK/US (British father/US mother) but moved to NZ as small child and raised in NZ (primary school to university in NZ) – both passports have permanent unlimited undefinite NZ Permanent Resident visa – that rules me out as PM or Permanent Head of a NZ Government Department – neither jobs I’m interest in haha. Ive only been in the US 3 years.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
As he is the future president of the United States, I agree quite strongly with Redbaiter. It is Obamas god given duty to bend over backwards for each and every conspiracy theory no matter how silly they may seem to some.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
kia
Oh well – Gordon Brown is looking like dog tucker, and I think Cameron is a bit flakey. Maybe the UK is your best bet?
December 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
“it is Obamas god given duty to bend over backwards”
The simple matter of releasing a birth certificate is “bending over backwards”? Oh gawd. Yet another example of supreme leftist intelligence enters the fray.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
RB:
“Leave this thread.”
Simple. Take up my offer to bet on the fate of Keyes’ case. Then one of us is gone for good. C’mon. Go for it. Prove yourself.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Moron. Go away. You’re light years out of your intellectual depth child.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
obama is new world order scum, wake up,its even started to be tort in schools,
the new world order dose exsist,hit the link below and get a glue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzDpp4EZtaU
wake up
December 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
“Moron. Go away. You’re light years out of your intellectual depth child.”
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is RB’s admission of defeat. And on that triumphal note, good night all.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Fuck Jas, if there’s one thing I don’t need here its you on my side.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
# Redbaiter (4715) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 0 Says:
December 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
“it is Obamas god given duty to bend over backwards”
The simple matter of releasing a birth certificate is “bending over backwards”? Oh gawd. Yet another example of supreme leftist intelligence enters the fray.
I just happen to think it is rather petty for people to be so childish when their candidate loses an election. By this I do not mean you.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Talk about “bending over backwards” , why do lefty twits always think of sodomy? Nobama or Nobummer?
December 9th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
“I just happen to think it is rather petty for people to be so childish when their candidate loses an election.”
It is a constitutional requirement that the POTUS is a Natural Born Citizen. Someone born in the US. Do you think the American Constitution is important?
December 9th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
the only side im on is the truth, if you still think that there is a left and a right you have much to learn
im light years ahead of you all
when you stop getting your info from tv and the papers and do your own research away from the bullshit propaganda you will start to wake up
until that day comes what i say will make no sence
December 9th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
feel free to debunk me though
December 9th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Quite frankly, if the Yanks support a Constitutional clause that says you have to be born in the country to run for president, then more fool them. I don’t give a damn where he was born – he grew up there.
That attitude wouldn’t do NZ’s claims for sporting heroes much good, sould it?
( I almost agreed with Jastowns last post, thinking it was about truth, until I read his previous semi-literate rants).
December 9th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Personally Redbiter I don’t think you give a shit about the American Constitution. Dissing fellow commentators for their intellectual inadequacies when a few weeks ago you singing the praises of that intellectual giant Sarah the pale one is a bit rich don’t you think? Especially when you’ve thrown your cards on the table with fellow nutters Orly Taitz and Phi Berg.
I’m sorry to judge you by the company you keep but if you are going to tar poor Obama with tenuous links to William Ayers who at least came out the other side with a few brain cells intact then you’re going to have to try a bit harder to convince us that you are worthy of anything but amusement.
December 9th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
If it was President-Elect McCain, the challenge might have some legitmacy as he was born in the Panama Canal Zone – an international neutral zone under US control within Panama.
December 9th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
“If it was President-Elect McCain, the challenge might have some legitmacy as he was born in the Panama Canal Zone – an international neutral zone under US control within Panama.”
Read the thread, fool.
December 9th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
“you’re going to have to try a bit harder to convince us that you are worthy of anything but amusement.”
What your (plural, waah waah waah) opinion of Redbaiter may be is something I never give a second thought to Illy. Although you obviously think its of great importance, or you wouldn’t go to such unending trouble to write it here. Get a life turkey. Who cares? Answer the question or take your off topic boring naval gazing self indulgent crap somewhere else. You commies are all just sooo hopeless. Just answer the question. Why won’t Obama release his original certificate? That is all you need to do.
December 9th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
We’re all so sadly uninformed. Thank christ we’ve got Redbaiter to straighten us out and tell us the real deal. It doesn’t take much intellect to work this one out. I’ll leave Redbaiter to ponder the infinite mystery of the original birth certificate.
Maybe Sarah has it!
December 9th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Maybe Hillary and Bill have a copy? We did not have sex with that camel.
December 9th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
This is very similar to the stupid crap that the southern states practiced for many years with their literacy tests (whites got an easy one, KKK members presumably an even easier one and negroes a tough one), or the contorted legal interpretations that negroes were not human beings and therefore were not covered by the Constitution.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
“We’re all so sadly uninformed.”
Don’t forget stupid.
Look. Tell you what. I’ll help you out. Seeing as how you’re all so stumped by this and so mad at yourselves and so fixated on abusing Redbaiter (and others) for daring to suggest your Messiah is a fraud, I’ll give you an explanation. Just because I’m a softy at heart and I feel so sorry for you poor fools. You dumbarses who can’t get a thing in your lives to go right.
Why doesn’t Obama release the BC?
Because he’s waiting.
What for Redbaiter, what is he waiting for?
He’s waiting for the right wing to pick it up and run with it. He’s waiting for Rush and Sean and the rest to go for it, and then, he’ll release it and it will show he was born in Hawaiii and he will have very effectively discredited his long time political enemies in one strategically brilliant move.
That’s why none of them are going for it. They suspect a trap.
Now, don’t you wish you could have thought of that?
Never mind commies. Just keep reading Redbaiter. One day enlightenment will come.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
lloydois
I think the Phil Berg suit lacks merit and is barking up the wrong tree and yes – he is a suspect character being a proven 9/11 truther. I believe Denofrio’s suit had procedural flaws. But I’m intrigued why Obama won’t simply show the vault BC when McCain so readily showed his as soon as there appeared to be any issue of eligibility? What does he have to hide? Sooner or later a person with standing will file a clean suit with no lower court referral messiness and devoid of truther fantasies that simply asks the SCOTUS to have a state official certify that Obama is eligible. For crying out loud if you applied for a job as a senior civil servant in any western democracy, its government would ask to see evidence of your citizenship or residency. POTUS is no ordinary job and yes the Constitution does have included in it a pesky ‘natural born citizen’ requirement.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
( I almost agreed with Jastowns last post, thinking it was about truth, until I read his previous semi-literate rants).
well if you think im full of shit bebunk me you child,you think im not about truth prove one lie just one moron
AG i normaly dont waste my time with such nobs so it will be short and sweet,suck me
December 9th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
“Maybe Sarah has it!”
Who has it is no mystery dipshit. Its held at an Hawaiian hospital.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Red
As you say, the mainstream conservative talk show hosts and bloggers are giving this issue a wide berth and when they do report on it, it is to pour scorn on the claims.
There are so many nutty theories out there that it’s getting boring – I’m more intrigued by the game Obama is playing and whether sooner or later he’ll be forced to show the vault cert. I have no doubt it will show an uneventful Hawaiian birth. I do believe there is a grey area over his Indonesian father but remain neutral on the constitutional consquences of prior citizenship. I just wish the dogged fourth estate, who would persue this relentlessly were these questions hanging over McCain or Palin, would examine Obama’s record as closely as they examined Palin’s. It is the lopsided partisan shilling that poses as journalism that is far more the issue for me.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
“It is the lopsided partisan shilling that poses as journalism that is far more the issue for me.”
Me too. It is yet another exhibition of what a disgraceful lapdog to socialism the mainstream media have become. It is their job to question and investigate and seek out truth, not worship and grovel like salivating dogs. They are scum, and nothing has disgusted me more about the media than their betrayal of their craft to the cult of Obama-mania.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
i would like to know how obama travalled too and around indonesia at a time when US citizens were banned from setting foot there by the indonesian government
answer that and you will know the truth
December 9th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
” This is very similar to the stupid crap that the southern states practiced for many years with their literacy tests”
Good grief. Its nothing like that. The constitution simply requires that any President is a natural born citizen. All Obama has to do is show he was born in the US.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
I want proof that Obama is a nigger.
If he does not produce photographs showing that his penis is at least nine inches in length then he is lying to the population of the United States.
Obama owes the American public the irrevocable proof that he is a nigger, and this proof can only come from a photograph of his penis. I say again, if this was a Republican President elect, the “Bush stole the election” left would be screaming their heads off.
The left’s frantic mission to label those who merely want to see a photograph of his penis as insane says more about their own desperate insanity than anything else. They are sadly uninformed, and until they get informed, I’d advise they drop the air of patronising arrogance.
This is clearly a racial issue as Obama clearly played the race card while running for POTUS, relying on the sympathies of Leftist liberal scum to get voted in.
The photo that would prove the point is the one he refuses to release for public scrutiny. The photograph held in his wife’s bedroom is the one his media team won’t release. Why on earth wouldn’t he release it? Why would he put his whole Presidency under a cloud, and risk being labeled an impostor, when the solution is so simple. All people are asking him to do is release the photograph.
Full of bluster, denigration and hate, not one of you simple minded Leftists will address the question. Please tell me. Why won’t he release the photograph showing his penis size?
This is a racial issue. It is not going to go away.
December 9th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Given the high stakes involved, don’t you think that the powers that be would have checked everything? Dotted all the i’s and crossed all the t’s?
Given 8 years of dubya, the Democrats were likely to win in a canter, which they did. Surely the Democratic party would not be so unbelievably stupid to select a candidate who did not meet the criteria.
To even think that this might be the case smacks of a severe desperation founded in ignorance. Obama is the US president. He was elected and that is how the system works. If you don’t like it, you are free to moan about it. But to go to the supreme court in this manner just shows you for the idiot you are.
December 9th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Redbaiter wrote:
I have a new definition of hypocrisy.
December 9th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
The US Senate vote on McCain’s right was a non-binding resolution which I don’t think has any legal effect. A federal court judge said in an obiter comment it was likely he was an American citizen, as an opinion from US Solicitor-General.
Interesting question though would be what would happen if Obama was found not to be a natural citizen (I’m sure he is, after all, why stand if your birth certificate proves that you are ineligible?). The constitution says that no non-natural citizen “shall be eligible to the Office of the President” – does this mean that they cannot stand for election or cannot be sworn in? if the latter, does this mean we’d have President Biden?
December 9th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Brilliant post David. This one was a dog whistle extraordinaire. I take my hat off to you.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:04 am
obama also must be a citizen of indonesia,at the time he went to school there you had to be a citizen of Indonesia to be eligible for school
also his father held citizenship in england so obama can not be a natural citizen of the US
this also explains how obama was aloud into indonesia when US citizens were banned from entering indonesia
C-urious
H-ow
A
N-egro
G-ot
E-lected
im not a racist, i just found it funny
December 10th, 2008 at 2:10 am
and right on cue, another one barks up.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Expat:
I think Jastowns has picked up where others, like Ghostwhowalks, left off. I analysed some of Jastowns’ more bizarre conspiracy theories here (including, relevantly to this thread, that “bush is the queens 13th distant cousin” and “obama is some how related to cheney” – only thing is Jastowns isn’t quite sure how). Enjoy!
December 10th, 2008 at 3:36 am
fruitloop city.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Redbaiter – … but no one would be questioning his background if he were a WASP. The questioning is coming only from a bunch of racist fruit-cakes.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Classic. Really.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:50 am
@Redbaiter-
There is no credibility behind their accusations in the slightest. It is quite simply an inability for them to accept the will of the people and has little difference to how certain left leaning people responding to the New Zealand election. There will always be numerous conspiracy theories about why a certain president is invalid or done something illegal. If he was going to go through with this what would be his justification for not satisfying every other conspiracy theorist? As others have mentioned in here, would this really be enough? I also doubt they would accept anything he shows. As Heywoods (2002) asserts perception can be more important than reality, as perception often becomes reality.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:02 am
To fix this whole problem, I propose that both Obama and McCain stand aside and we alter the constitution to allow George W Bush a third term. He has done such a terrific job afterall. The economy is booming, the automotive industry is on fire, the American mortage industry and housing market has never been stronger, he disabled North Korea’s nuclear weapons, Iran has backed down, al-Qaeda is on the run, bin Laden has been caught and is in jail, the deficit is reduced, Iraq is a secular and peaceful democracy, the air is clean, the birds are singing! Give the guy four more years!
December 10th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Yeah! Lets give Helen and her team another go too! They did real good with the economy, the housing market, dairy prices, CO2 emissions, the EFA, the EFT, child deaths, leading NZ into the top half of the OECD, restoring Fiji to a peaceful democracy, sending troops into Afghanistan and helping TVNZ launch world class digital TV channels.
!Oh, and there is no poo on New Zealands swimming beaches!
December 10th, 2008 at 10:17 am
“The questioning is coming only from a bunch of racist fruit-cakes.”
Obviously you don’t know who Alan Keyes is.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:19 am
“I just wish the dogged fourth estate, who would persue this relentlessly were these questions hanging over McCain or Palin, would examine Obama’s record as closely as they examined Palin’s. It is the lopsided partisan shilling that poses as journalism that is far more the issue for me.”
So WTF have all your heroes at Fox News and the National Review been doing? Or don’t theyqualify as journalists?
All this namby pamby prissy bloody whingeing about the socialist meeja and if only journalists did their job. If there was any credence to the claims don’t you have some half pie decent journos on your side who could expose the TRUTH or they all too busy cooking up ludicrous conspiracy theories which anyone with a functioning brain can see is a crock of shite.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:38 am
“There is no credibility behind their accusations in the slightest.”
What accusations? They are asking to see Obama’s birth certificate. The Constitution specifies that any Presidential candidate must be a Natural Born American. Obama only needs to show his original birth certificate. The fact that he refuses to do so is what is producing the doubt. Do you think an impostor and someone who lied about his place of birth and tried to present false documentation is fit to be POTUS?
Christ. You people even subpoenaed George Bush’s dental records.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:57 am
There is a very important distinction between McCain and Obama when it comes to being qualified to be elected president.
Prima face, McCain is ineligible, because he was born outside the United States. Thus, to establish his eligibility, he had to produce evidence that both his parents are US citizens, that his father was on active service in the US Military and that he was born in a US military hospital. Combined, these factors outweigh the prima face conclusion that he is not a “natural born citizen”. His “short form” birth certificate, which would presumably say he was born in Panama, is insufficient.
Obama is, prima face, eligible, having been born in one of the 50 states of the union. Thus, his short-form certificate is sufficient.
And this is the wider principle at stake: Obama is saying that all he needs to do is provide the legal minimum standard of proof. Yes, he could provide more. He could release the full certificate: get affidavits from the doctors and nurses; photos; testimony from his grandmother before she died.
He didn’t, I believe, for the simple reason that there is no legal reason for him to do so. While a slippery slope argument, I suggest that once he starts agreeing to produce more than the minimum legal requirements, there are enough people in the US with enough time on their hands to start requiring that he do all sorts of strange things.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
“once he starts agreeing to produce more than the minimum legal requirements, there are enough people in the US with enough time on their hands to start requiring that he do all sorts of strange things.”
Bush and McCain produced their original certificates. Why is it so difficult for Obama. ..and don’t talk to me about “strange people”, as I said above the left even subpoenaed George Bush’s dental records and even produced forged documents in an attempt to smear him on his military record. Some objectivity and balance would be nice. Obama is not a God you know.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
FIrst rule in dealing with conspiracists – don’t engage with them. Stay well away and let them wallow in their own mire. Hence Obama’s no show at the Crazies’ Ball. I believe a few here were first to RSVP though…
As a child I never had a passport during my travels as I went on my mother’s. That was a UK one right up till about 1978. Wonder if it was the same for the US.
Wonder if anyone has considered his mother might have – shock horror – lied to get him into school. Because it is obviously a completely unknown phenomenon here. I mean, who would think, lying to get your children into the right school. Would never happen in Epsom
December 10th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
# Redbaiter (4733) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 10:38 am
“What accusations? ”
They are accusing him being ineligible for presidency. Democracy failed for them so now they are trying to find a technicality.
“Christ. You people even subpoenaed George Bush’s dental records.”
Us people? Your attempts to over simplify the world are quite amusing but futile.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
“FIrst rule in dealing with conspiracists – don’t engage with them.”
You’re just falling for the leftist trap. Look, the Obama campaign issues instructions to the press core explaining how any discussion on Obama should proceed. In this case, the instruction most like went along the lines of-
“Any request for Obama to produce his original birth certificate should be dismissed as a conspiracy theory”.
..and of course, the media, Obama’s propaganda arm, go with it, and the plebeians pick it up and think they’re informed and proceed on the basis Obama wants them to without even knowing how they’re being manipulated by an extremely efficient propaganda machine.
How can a simple request to Obama to release his original birth certificate be any kind of conspiracy theory? His refusal to do this is the catalyst for all of the court actions currently underway. It is not any kind of conspiracy theory. Many Americans set great store by their constitution, as they should, and all they want is that the POTUS is a natural born citizen as that document requires.
Conspiracy theory my arse. To call it that is just falling for weak left wing propaganda.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
A conspiracy theory is just a theory involving a conspiracy.
If you think that all conspiracy theories are false, then you think there are no conspiracies ever.
Which, I think, is crazy.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
“They are accusing him being ineligible for presidency.”
They are merely asking that he display his original birth certificate as every other Presidential candidate has done. If you are saying he should be free of this customary obligation, necessary to qualify him according to the Constitution, what is your argument.
“Us people? Your attempts to over simplify the world are quite amusing but futile.”
Everything you have ever written here has been from the standard leftist perspective. If it walks like a duck.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Nomestradamus spoken like a true polyanne
December 10th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
georgebowling
If it was so easy for Obama to produce his short form BC, it would be just as easy for him to produce his vault long form. It was a well known fact BEFORE McCain produced HIS vault long form BC that he was born to natural born citizens on a US Naval base in a Panama Canal zone – at the time US territory – and it was also well known that anyone born under such circumstances (as have thousands of children to US servicemen and women over the years) is automatically deemed to be a natural born citizen. A few on the left questioned McCain’s constitutional eligibility, his response was the prompt production of his original vault BC. It was on the public record that Obama’s father was Kenyan and that his adopted father was Indonesian and that he lived for a time in Indonesia. There is nothing wrong with any of those facts – there are POTENTIAL (and I note only potential constitutional issues because I am not an expert on US constitutional law) issues with his circumstances. The simplest way to answer the critics would be to replicate McCain’s swift and unequivocal response. I really couldn’t care less about any of the reasons or speculations about his eligibility – I sense something is just not 100% right when he is going to such lengths to avoid the vault long form BC from seeing the light of day. Yesterday jacob disputed that Obama is legally fighting against these cases. All the various cases name various State Secretaries of State as first defendant as they are the people supposedly tasked with proving eligibility. Each case names a different cast of co-defendents and Obama is almost always named as a co-defendent (as is the DNC in one case and the Obama CA electors in another). The various law firms have been retained to defend Obama’s position and (as is the case with all joint action suits) liase with counsel for other defendants. His bills alone will be in 6 figures already due the various layers of mutiple court appearances and the need to hire counsel qualified to appear before SCOTUS. Seems a lot of time and money that could be saved by doing as McCain did.
lloydois
The media had Joe the Pumber’s tax records and child support history (courtesy of Obama supporters in the various OH state agencies implicated in the illegal release of his private records) within DAYS and yet no member of the MSM ever asked the question as to whether there were any Article 2 elegibility issues that might arise from the Messiah’s known life history. It is the blind obesciance to all things to do with Obama and the nausating fawning over him that contrasts so starkly with the dumpster diving that countless lawyers and media operatives undertook in Alaska concerning Sarah Palin.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
What’s this? The poor losers thread? The people have voted.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
A seven-page questionnaire being sent by the office of President-elect Barack Obama to those seeking cabinet and other high-ranking posts may be the most extensive — some say invasive — application ever. The questionnaire includes 63 requests for personal and professional records, some covering applicants’ spouses and grown children as well, that are forcing job-seekers to rummage from basements to attics, in shoe boxes, diaries and computer archives to document both their achievements and missteps. Only the smallest details are excluded; traffic tickets carrying fines of less than $50 need not be reported, the application says. Applicants are asked whether they or anyone in their family owns a gun. They must include any e-mail that might embarrass the president-elect, along with any blog posts and links to their Facebook pages. The application also asks applicants to “please list all aliases or ‘handles’ you have used to communicate on the Internet.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
RB
“Obviously you don’t know who Alan Keyes is.”
Good to see you’ve learnt how to spell his name properly, though.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
“What’s this? The poor losers thread?”
Hahhaha, that’s funny coming from the “Bush stole the election” crowd. Gawd you people are so easy.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
“Good to see you’ve learnt how to spell his name properly, though.”
Well after making such a complete arse of yourself over allegations of racism, you really think you can recover any ground with piffling comments on spelling? Gawd you people are so weak. When are we ever going to get some smart leftists here? Don’t tell me. I know the answer. They don’t exist.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Ummm – check who you are arguing with. Douchebag.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
“Ummm – check who you are arguing with. Douchebag.”
You said yesterday you all think alike.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
The reluctance to produce the birth certificate will provoke more and more curiosity by more and more people. The numbers now must range in the millions.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Isn’t the short certificate produced from the long ie it’s infromation is a subset of the longer version. Therefore if the short version says “born Honalulu”, it reflects similar info in the long version?
I’d add that NZ authorities have been perfectly willing to accept my short cert as adequate evidence of my birth.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
http://healthuser.hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
December 10th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
If Bill Clinton has to produce a list of all his girlfriends so Hillary can get a job I fail to see why Hussein can’t produce his birth certificate to get his job.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“I’d add that NZ authorities have been perfectly willing to accept my short cert as adequate evidence of my birth.”
Yes, but I would suggest that is because you cannot get a NZ birth certificate unless your birth actually took place in NZ. Secondly, I would say that considering the position Obama is applying for is that of the most powerful politician in the US, he should be willing to verify his details with a bit more enthusiasm than if he was applying for a job with Minerals and Energy for example.
Hawaiian birth certificates are issued specifying Hawaiian birth even when it may not have been the case. That is the crux of the whole issue. If Obama would show the original, and it confirmed the summary certificate, all of the furore would disappear in a millisecond.
——————————————————–
Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.
A. From Hawaii’s official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: “Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country” (applies to adopted children).
B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.
C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.
D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.
E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.
F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.”
The above comes from this link-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2138537/posts
December 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
It was a British certificate…
December 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Redeye, maybe you could cut and paste the bit where it says Obama was born in Hawaii.
Gawd you leftists are piss poor. Oooooh, Redbaiter’s picking on Saint Obama, I better get on the net and up to speed. Except you’re light years behind you wilting over used strapon.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5OUdj_YIpo
December 10th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Damn it is amusing, we Americans have the right to see his birth certificate ?
So outside of Kiwi in America what other posters enjoy grits ?
December 10th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
insider
The long form vault BC in HI has 4 additional fields not found on the short form (the one Obama has released). Crucial information on the long form and not on the short form include the hospital where he was born and the name of the attending medical professional. Please note – in the event of adoption in HI and any other state in the US (or NZ and other juristictions as far as I am aware), the original vault certificate is sealed and replace with a fresh vault certificate with the new adopted name. My personal opinion is that Obama’s current vault BC has his adopted surname (at the time) of Seotoro – the name of his adopted father and his mother’s 2nd husband. THe would’ve changed his surname by deed poll (again perfectly legal) back to Obama and in that regard, the short form BC released reflects that reality. There may be nothing sinister in his being adopted by Seotoro whatsoever and I cannot comment on the whether this denotes any prior Indonesian citizenship and if it does, whether that would mean any Article 2 breach. All I know is that we don’t know because Obama is spending $100,000′s in legal fees to ward off attempts to unearth the vault cert.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Redbaiter
For exactly the same reason that you will never reveal any of your personal details. Because you don’t have to.
If you really have nothing to hide, why is it that you are so scrupulous about your anonymity? I’m fully prepared to accept your already given explanation that ‘You do not want to expose yourself to your enemies’. My interpretation of your words on the matter. It seems like a completely fair reason, even if you do not even have any enemies, and have done nothing wrong at all. You have the right to refuse and are exercising it. As does Obama.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Jastowns:
So repeating your claims that “bush is the queens 13th distant cousin” and “obama is some how related to cheney” is Polyannish now is it? You made these claims. In your short time at Kiwiblog, you’ve repeatedly claimed to have special knowledge of “the truth” that everyone else is apparently not privy to. So how about stumping up with some evidence?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
The wingnut left exposed their wingnuttiness with their 9/11-was-an-inside-job obsession, and the wingnut right are doing the same over Obama’s birth certificate. All these people should be medicated and locked up for their own good. Redbaiter can be their warden.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“So how about stumping up with some evidence?”
NOOOO! Jastown’s insanely long cut-and-paste comments destroy the flow of this thread!!! Don’t encourage this!!!!!!
December 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Hmmmm, nothing here. I guess that’s it then. Not much the left can say I guess to defend the indefensible.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
An illegal coloured adopted terrorist muslim commie named Hussein has just been elected President of the most powerful nation on earth. And by popular vote no less. Poor Redbaiters been checking under his bed ever since. And just because he hasn’t yet seen any, it doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Goddamn it Redeye … just when we thought RB was out, you keep dragging him back in.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Geeez Folks The old paradigm of Trust us we know what we are doing is gone. the new paradigm is to show proof positive in response to questions.
Its not that difficult If Obama has nothing to hide then why not produce the bloody certificate.
Its called good governance Its called transperancey its called disclosure.
If this guy wants to hold the highest office in the USA and in the western world then why does he have a problem.
hell its only a birth certificate afterall
But heres the rub, Its evidence that either qualifys or disqualifies him to hold office under the Consitution
Now why would a person object to producing an official and legal document that certifies they are eligible to hold office.
Coming back to my first point Trust us we know what we are doing dont cut the mustard
December 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
“There is no credibility behind their accusations in the slightest.”
RB said
“What accusations? ”
Well, your accusations for a start.
“The one that would prove the point is the one he refuses to release for public scrutiny. The Long Form Birth certificate held on file in the Hawaiian hospital that most likely specifies he was born in Kenya.”
Then RB said:
“He’s waiting for the right wing to pick it up and run with it. He’s waiting for Rush and Sean and the rest to go for it, and then, he’ll release it and it will show he was born in Hawaiii and he will have very effectively discredited his long time political enemies in one strategically brilliant move.”
So, do you think he was born in Kenya or is he laying a trap for Limbaugh and co? Make up your mind.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
of course as in some cases it may not be a conspiracy theory. it may be a cockup reality
As in noone checked too see if he was ineligible
Ive seen this happen many times in Committee appointments
Some one gets nominated and elected at a vote
Then CLANG Turns out they aint qaulified under the rules of the organisation to serve on the Committee.
But noone aked the question until after the event
December 10th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Nomestradamus and ag two prats that dont know how to google
i will tech you how
put( bush related to queen )in the google slot then pick a site and do some fucken reading
you are both pollyannes who just wasted two minutes of my time
December 11th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Even if Obama is not an American, the US establishment would never ever allow it to come out at this time. Imagine if it did turn out to be an actual constitutional crisis, then there might have to be another election. That is the absolute last thing big money wants to happen right now.
I would hope, if it did pan out that way, that the US system might actually have the wisdom to amend the constitution or case law, and allow the will of the people to prevail. Even if there is some pissly technicality by which Obama is not an American, anyone can see that in practice he is. He has spent his entire life there, brought up through all their systems. He appeals to them as an American, and that is what is important.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:47 am
There will be a constitutional crisis because numbers of people concerned about it are snowballing. Why does not Mr Obama come clean? If he does not qualify a solution would be for Mr Biden to become president.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
” and allow the will of the people to prevail. ”
It is not the will of the people. The people (if Obama is not US born) have been deceived. They voted for someone who maintained he was born in the US. If that claim is exposed as a lie, his level of support would drop considerably. Neither you nor any other leftist suckhole would be able to assert they knew “the will of the people”.
“He has spent his entire life there,”
He hasn’t actually. Get informed if you don’t mind.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Redbaiter, you don’t know for certain how much Americans en masse would give a crap about this. Like I said, pissly details are pissly details and only the most desperate, clutching at whatever straws they can, will not see that in the spirit of the Constitution, Obama is an American. Furthermore, it is definitely NOT in the interests of anyone at the moment to nitpick about such a stupid detail. Except raving fuckwits like you, whose interests are totally inscrutable.
I’ll tell you what, suckhole, if you show me a copy of YOUR birth certificate, I’ll promise never to say another word on the matter.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
“Furthermore, it is definitely NOT in the interests of anyone at the moment to nitpick about such a stupid detail.”
It is not a “stupid detail”. Only people born in the US can be POTUS. This is specified in the Constitution. Arnold Schwarzenegger (for example) was prevented from standing for the office on these very grounds. Also important is the fact that Obama may have lied. If he has, there is no way he can continue to be President.
You people are too much. If this was a Republican you’d be all over it like a rash. What this shows is how utterly corrupt the political/ mainstream media conglomerate has become, and also how morally corrupt leftists like you have become in your obsession with power.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
“Redbaiter, you don’t know for certain how much Americans en masse would give a crap about this.”
How then can you claim to know?
December 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Actually you are right, it is not a stupid detail. It is a FUCKING STUPID detail.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is not an American. He grew up abroad, has a very thick foreign accent, and he has never denied it. Although personally, I would not be the least bit opposed to him becoming President, there is no equivalence between him and Obama.
Furthermore, even Republican voters have nothing to gain from the absolutely certain economic turmoil that would be created by a debacle in which some dickhead managed to overthrow the President elect on grounds of something as irrelevant as where they spent the first couple of months of their lives sucking their momma’s tit. Who gives a flying CRAP about that, the man was raised in American schools as an American, he speaks, walks and quacks like an American. He even talks total shit in a convincing way, a particularly American talent.
Now, I actually have a little faith that the American system, far from being as FUCKING STUPID as you, would actually be able to handle something as inconsequential as this, by virtue of it being run by pragmatic people. If they were able to overlook a blowjob (which they bloody well should have) then they can certainly handle this.
Yeah, I’m glad Obama is elected, but it’s hardly a leftist obsession with power. The man is about as left wing as the more right wing elements of our National party. If anyone is obsessed with power, it is fuckwits like you, who would rather make the USA a pariah and a laughing stock by getting rid of the elected President on such an irrelevant technicality, in some vain hope that the Republicans might get re-elected afterwards. I would bet you a grand (if you could ever be the slightest bit honest about who you are) that if your stupid little obsession ever saw the light of day, that the next President would be a Democrat elected by an enormous landslide.
So it’s hardly about the power, it’s about the fact that there’s nothing practical or even moral about chasing this line. Which is exactly why it will never see the light of day.
December 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
“He grew up abroad, has a very thick foreign accent, and he has never denied it. ”
..and this in your mind is some kind of an argument?? Good grief.
“a debacle in which some dickhead managed to overthrow the President elect on grounds of something as irrelevant as where they spent the first couple of months of their lives sucking their momma’s tit.”
He would not be “overthrown”. He would be quite correctly declared legally ineligible on the grounds he lied about his place of birth.
“Who gives a flying CRAP about that,”
The American Constitution is the country’s founding document. Like you commies would suggest that a clause in the TOW should be ignored in NZ just because it goes against one party’s political ambitions?
1. There ARE eligibility requirements to be President as specified in the Constitution.
2. Someone (Many) has (have) the responsibility to ENSURE eligibility requirements are met.
3. An ineligible candidate should NOT hold the office of the President.
“Which is exactly why it will never see the light of day.”
Well, we’ll see about that won’t we? The MM tried to frame Bush once before and got caught out. They could very well get caught out on this fraud too. Trying to get an impostor elected as POTUS.
December 11th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“Trying to get an impostor elected as POTUS.”
Actually, they’ve already managed this. He’ll then get confirmed in office by Congress. The S. Ct will dismiss any attempt to challenge this via the judiciary (you really think they’re going to give you another Republican president after they fucked the last decision up so royally?)
So you’ve lost. Ha ha ha.
December 11th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Jastowns:
Not good enough, I’m afraid. You made the claim. You stump up with the evidence, instead of asking me to do your homework for you. The fact that you can’t point me to a reputable website (and you’ve been asked to do so at least twice now) makes me think that you’re all piss and wind.
Oh, by the way, how about getting some basic literacy before ordering me to “do some fucken reading”.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Nomestradamus
i have the feeling it dosent matter to you what the truth is,you have called me out yet you have done no research to back up your claims i lie,a true pollyanne
you dont want to do my home work,ive already done the home work fool,as in most cases the quest for the truth is more important than the truth itself,learning never stops
like the real Nomestradamus you too are full of shit
if you cant beat em attack there literacy that will make you seem smarter yes,moron
people like you,that are told what to think and and how to feel are true prisoners,but you wont believe this
just prove i have lied just once on anything i have said at this site and i will leave forever,this challange is for everybody that thinks im full of shit
December 11th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Redbaiter—your absolutely correct we are in mass over a constitutional issue. Obama is guilty as charged–by not producing his long form birth certificate—but then again he admited on his own web site that he is not a natural born citizen no matter where he was born. Have heart Redbaiter look for soon to be in court—Connor v Obama and Rezko (FBI involvment)–this is to do with real estate dealings. Well Resko lived right across the street from him so I guess Obama may get a cell right across from Rezko. Now that is political justice. Oh yes Obama was also Gov. Blako’s advisor (ran his campaign) during his first term and even endorsed him last year—-Obama said he never had contact with him –but pictures showed he was shaking hands with him last week—-He has such wonderful friends—gag! There is one thing that we can all be thankful for is that Obama only lies when he opens his mouth! Change you can believe in!
December 11th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
well shit for brains,some proof
December 11th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Jastowns:
This is now the third time you’ve been unable to substantiate your claims.
Do you deny saying this?
You claim that your searches quickly went nowhere, but you certainly weren’t deterred from resorting to guesswork. I think I’m entitled to treat your claims with suspicion, and sceptism, when you can’t even point me to a reputable website that substantiates them. And no, I’m not going to waste time on you. You’re functionally illiterate, and apparently devoid of commonsense too.
It won’t surprise you to hear that I think that the one with “shit for brains” is you.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
If it goes against the entire nation’s interest I would indeed say it should be ignored. Particularly if it’s a trivial technicality.
We will indeed. I’m willing to bet Obama’s birth certificate remains as unobtainable as your own, and that’s just how it should be. Furthermore, if it does come out, I think the disappointment will be almost as profound as that felt by your enemies about your background. It will be totally unremarkable in every way. It’s just one of those secrets that people like to keep because they have the right to, even though the need may not actually be great. Rather like what my dick looks like. It’s not something I want generally known, but most likely nothing would come of it being known. But I see no point in giving it to anyone just because they asked, and would defend my right to keep it secret. Of course I could be wrong about this, maybe there is some pathetically trivial irregularity about the exact details of Obama’s birth. You might also turn out to be someone that, if it was known who you were, would prove to be mighty embarrassing. I doubt it. I think your secrets are probably just trivial and only matter to you. But they are your secrets to reveal.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:46 am
Nomestradamus
so im illiterate with no commomsense,you must be feeling very clever
i hope i dont have to tell you the differance between a guess and a claim
still no proof i have told any lies,would this be a guess or a claim
people need to do there own research,you more than most,its the old saying you can lead a horse to water
all you have to do is prove one lie i have told and im gone forever,strange your not up for the challange surley an easy task for someone like you?
litercey skills dont matter to me, just the truth,maybe you should try it,you only have to open your fucken eyes
the more you refuse to look at the truth the more i think you are a pollyanne
just one lie and im gone,you can do it malucka
December 12th, 2008 at 1:03 am
Jastowns:
I’ll say it one more time: point me to a reputable website that substantiates your claims. And they’re your claims after all, not mine, so it’s up to you to substantiate them. If I claimed that John Key is New Zealand’s prime minister, and you challenged me to prove my claim, I could easily do so. You claim the internet is littered with evidence of the truth. So prove it. One reputable link of the claims I’ve reproduced above. Just one. Otherwise you’re wasting my time.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:16 am
“But they are your secrets to reveal.”
You’re screw loose. None of that completely irrational rambling long winded off topic rant has the slightest connection to the simple matter of Obama needing to comply with Constitutional requirements regarding the President being born in the US. Go away. You’re completely out of your tree.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:33 am
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEFD91438F936A35754C0A96E948260
this was in the new york times i dont kknow if you think this is reputable or not there are many other sites where i have seen the same info
you brought this to topic and i feel you must do your own research,this is one i quickly found
December 12th, 2008 at 2:47 am
nothing to say,ive given you one link and its even mainstream
the biggest problem i have with people that wont step outside the mainstream media is they think they know it all,i know because i was once there,we are all lied too and controlled and told what to think,
once you understand this its very easy to see,but try to get people to step outside the box and im the crackpot
im only for the truth thats it,i dont always get it right but i never lie, never
there are many pollyannes out there that do nothing but keep the real truth away from sites like this,and no doubt there will be some here,maybe you
i spend more time researching and reading than i should and over the years sorting the bullshit out from the truth has become easier by the day
the truth is i dont think any one in this site is very informed and are only repeating what they are told too by tv,the papers and so on,the very people that own these things dont want you to know the truth,or there would be a revolt by lunchtime
December 12th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Truth is conveniently trivial, principle has no place, result tyranny where the lie is enforced by violence.
December 12th, 2008 at 8:32 am
meanwhile, back on planet earth, meet the new Secretary of Energy -
http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/interview-steven-chu
seems Obama has been spending time on other issues.
December 12th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
No, I just disagree with you. If you have nothing more to add, sure, I’ll go away, just like this whole ‘scandal’ will. Obama can’t be compelled to reveal things he doesn’t have to, nor should he be, and the pipe dream you have that he is not American is what is really out of the tree. You just can’t handle it.
December 12th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
“No, I just disagree with you.”
A fairly generous description of what I would consider more accurately to be an insane incoherent rant.
December 12th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Again, I disagree with you. And you have nothing more to add, so bye.