Another conference hits the dust
Phil Goff is upset that Tony Ryall may have caused a $350,000 primary health conference to be cancelled.
I think Mr Goff should keep campaigning in defence of taxpayer funded conferences.
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Tags: government spending, Health, Phil Goff, Tony Ryall
January 21st, 2009 at 9:28 am
These conferences are a load of rubbish.
You could cancel all of the conferences, channel the cash into frontline services and services would improve.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:32 am
+ expanse claims => $500k
January 21st, 2009 at 9:37 am
Yes, let’s cancel any and everything that might lead to exchanges of knowledge, creation of peer groups and improvements to services. THEN we can say public health is fucked, give the lot to private enterprise for $1 and watch the whole lot go down the toilet, but that’s OK Johnkey has lots of money for private sector bailouts, doesn’t he? No point running an efficient business when the guvMINT will justy print more money to bailout the overpaid losers.
[DPF: Oh my God, the world is doomed, the public health system has now collapsed because a conference was cancelled.]
January 21st, 2009 at 9:47 am
They just don’t get it do they.. these lefties.
Our country is screwed as a result of the wasteful, ill-concieved, get-me-re-elected type policies of the last 9 years… and their solution is to support more of the same.
Albert Einstein famously defined insanity as “doing the same old thing and expecting a different result“. Says it all really.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:59 am
Conferences should be nothing to do with left or right. They need not be extravagant or wasteful though some are. I tend to look sideways at those that are centred on five star hotels, and have more respect for the values of those based in places of learning, and halls of residence. I guess the main thing is, who should attend them.
If they are a forum for the people who produce and/or research the knowledge apporpriate to the field, then they may well provide some value commensurate with their cost. If on the other hand they are of the kind where the persons who go are chosen on the grounds of their rank or status, or because attendance might be seen to bestow status, or because it is a perk of office, then throw them in the bin.
Conferences are a valid means by which claims of new knowledge can be exposed to the critical scrutiny of those who have sufficient knowledge of the field to test those claims. I would hate to see a kneejerk reaction that says “These conferences are a load of rubbish. You could cancel all of the conferences.” That is demonstrably untrue for very many of them.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:09 am
Haven’t they heard of video-conferencing at the MoH? Someone please send them some information on the matter.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:13 am
They just don’t get it do they.. these lefties.
And righties …. they just get their snouts in the trough.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:13 am
mynameisjack – you are really quite stupid. The attendees could conference in to a net session. Do it from their desks. We do it at work with people from all around the world all the time. Saves money although there is less drinking.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:24 am
wow Brian. Tele conferencing!! Who would have thought of it?
Yes, it has its palce, but as one who has attended many conferences, i can assure you that much of the value is gained from the personal relationships that form from face to face meetings.
I sell and design websites. I have the technology to never need to meet a client, and I have done work for overseas clients, purely by email and phone. But you know what? its only business, it is never as satisfying as sitting next to a client and working through their needs.
this is simply another case of the stupidity National will bring to the table with its cut cut cut mantra.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:25 am
Phool Goff, the leader who never was.
Sure spend more on meetings, its worked out so well to date.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:33 am
mynameisjack & cha – get real. in a major recession do you think its right that government funds are spent on pissup jollies?
January 21st, 2009 at 10:35 am
Videoconferencing just doesn’t cut it for a serious conference where attendance may be in the hundreds or even the thousands (one GIS conference attracts 11,000). Multiple streams of simultaneous presentations occur at most of the serious ones. To throw a blanket condemnation at the word “conference” would be to slow down the rate at which knowledge grows and is tested and disseminated. On the other hand, there ought to be an ethical approach to conference participation. You go to maximise the learning benefit.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am
Expat has nailed it. When there is fuck all money in the bank you reduce spending and concentrate on core spending. Conferences are not core spending.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:43 am
(1) It is just stupid for people to declare all public financed conferences a waste of money. If that’s true, then the same verdict should be aplied to private sector conferences. If Health policy goes the way the Nats want (PPPs), then the patients will be paying through their topup fees for these wastes of woney.
(2) Also, if conferences are a waste of money, NZ’s in-trouble travel industry might have a word or two to say to Ryall’s boss.
(3) How much money did cancelling the conference save? The Herald report says “Ministry staff said it would have cost $350,000 to run but had attracted $227,000 in revenue.” So that’s around 77,000. Think of it as an investment by the MoH of $257 in the professional development and knowledge of each of the 300 budgeted attendees. Those health professionals are going to feel pretty shitty about the government’s attitude to them. Folks, ask yourselves this: is the majority of those staff likely to feel positively or negatively about this thumbs-down from the minister? Would it increase or decrease the potential for people to think more seriously about moving to Health Sector jobs overseas?
January 21st, 2009 at 10:44 am
A bloody good point has been raised on Radio Live this morning, given the impending crunch and its effect on the private sector can we expect to see the public sector scale back as well, will we see them refuse their automatic annual wage increases and will we see them scale back their outlandish benefits?
Do not hold your breath, those in the public sector are immune to any financial crisis, if Neville Key really wants to get the public behind him he needs to ensure that the pain is evenly spread across the board, at the very least all public sector wage rises should be cancelled.
The next stage should be a thorough culling of ALL departments.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:47 am
Yep, expat gets it right.
NZ inc. is not exactly doing too well at the moment. Thanks to the last labour government, who spent 9 years trying (and failing) to lift NZ into the top 1/2 of the OECD, but instead oversaw smacking bans, choo choo trains, and safe ladder climbing techniques.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:48 am
MyNameIsJack -“I have the technology to never need to meet a client…….it is never as satisfying as sitting next to a client and working through their needs”
Health care providers don’t meet their clients at conferences – they usually meet them in make shift wards in hospital corridors – usually after it’s too late!!!!!!
January 21st, 2009 at 10:59 am
“If that’s true, then the same verdict should be aplied to private sector conferences.”
It is. Nobody fools themselves that sitting in a conference hall listening to a standard marketting speil or joking and drinking with mid level Australian and American technicians you’ll never see or hear from again will fix any problems in a NZ company enough to effect profitability. There are many better ways to do it. But we pay for it ourselves. Our money down the drain – we don’t steal it from passers-by.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:01 am
looks like the ex-labor staffers are up out of their unemployed beds.
Hi guys! Can you afford soy lattes on the dole?
what happened to aidan smith and the booze thieves?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:06 am
big bruv (2319) 2 1 Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:44 am
A bloody good point has been raised on Radio Live this morning, given the impending crunch and its effect on the private sector can we expect to see the public sector scale back as well, will we see them refuse their automatic annual wage increases and will we see them scale back their outlandish benefits?
Do not hold your breath, those in the public sector are immune to any financial crisis, if Neville Key really wants to get the public behind him he needs to ensure that the pain is evenly spread across the board, at the very least all public sector wage rises should be cancelled.
=======================
Typical right wing bullfuckingshit – privatise the profits, socialise the losses.
Spread the apin, eh, BB? sure beats actually putting the apin where it belongs – on the arseholes who caused it, the fruits in suits on the stock exchange, the finance company bosses who care not a whit for the pain they caused, its alleviated by their huge bonuses for being fuck ups
January 21st, 2009 at 11:08 am
The nation state governments who extended massive lines of credit and ran massive budget deficits to secure record terms in goverment and fund pet socialist projects.
What about them eggs Jacko?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:09 am
Back on topic.
Canning non-core government expenditure is very prudent. Something Cullen would be proud of.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:15 am
Jack
Wow!…got a public sector job have you?, bit worried that the gravy train is about to slow down?
It looks like you have no time for the bailouts?, well on that we agree, can I also assume that you have no desire to see the govt give hand outs to the people in the way of benefits?….or are you simply another pinko who thinks he has the right to stick his hand in my pocket as often as he likes?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:19 am
pinko -ve karma pixies have been busy on this one. raw nerve?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:46 am
gs – yeah, but i guess if youve survived on govt largesse jobs for the last few terms you’d be gutted to be out of an income and having to contemplate working for a living yah?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:57 am
Jack – are ya just scared the next cut back will be overpriced govt websites?
January 21st, 2009 at 12:18 pm
aaah Jack the old “its not the topic but the people you meet and the networking opportunities” argument.
I can’t believe that it is still being used – you must really have a softcock boss if he buys that one again and again to the point where you have ” ….attended many conferences … “. I sense a cold wind about to blow through your organisation.
January 21st, 2009 at 12:20 pm
The $790 per head “revenue” would have been mostly paid by public sector organisations so would still have been an overall cost to the taxpayer.
EDIT to add: Or was each attendee going to pay his own costs because of the tremendous value the conference offered?
January 21st, 2009 at 12:21 pm
My instinct here is to agree with National and the rightie pundits, and that this would *probably* have been a giant waste of money better spent elsewhere.
I would note however, that NOWHERE does anyone appear to discuss or even consider the actual content of the material that would have been presented at the conference, or its potential merits. The discussion seems to be purely framed in terms of ideology around public spending, and argued on classic party lines: “We will rein in public spending!” (National) vs “They are gutting public health!” (Labour). And that seems to be good enough for most of the players. Pity.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Ratbiter: I’m not sure it would be a waste of money per se, but more just not a priority. When the money runs out, you have to chop lower priority items. And the Govt is running out of money bigtime.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:01 pm
The private sector, at least the bit of it I work for, conducts most of its internal meetings and presentations and some external via conference calls and/or NetMeeting or Microsoft Communicator. It’s a large global organisation, we are talking hundreds of sessions a day. It works fine. Videoconferencing is available if face to face is needed (usually is not needed).
A conference with attendees from different organisations, is perhaps a bit different. However, if they are sharing information, technology can still be used to disseminate it. If they are networking, well they can use technology for that too. Heard of blogs, LinkedIn, Facebook guys?
The cost of the MoH conference – $350K – presumably does not include attendee expenses. Such as air fares, accommodation, meals, taxis, per diem, loss of productivity …. So the total cost is a lot more than the Ministry’s cost.
Now how about those academic confences eh? No wonder student fees are so high.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pm
I wonder if Jack was on the invite list. Earth calling Jack, were you on the invite list?
January 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Air NZ won’t be thanking him either.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Socialists hold conferences, set up committees with power to make non binding recommendations, steal grog and raid the public purse.
National ACTs.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:30 pm
And bored political commentators make great sweeping generalizations just for the heck of it!
January 21st, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I think you mean “lazy”, not bored. Or possibly “mendacious”.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Socialists hold conferences, set up committees with power to make non binding recommendations, steal grog and raid the public purse.
National ACTs
January 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Why not use telephone conferences? Cheaper, time saving and more efficient?
January 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Phil in Froth should be thanking Tony Ryall. I note this conference was to be on health. Maybe Tony was concerned with the conference participants health, just imagine pigging out on $350,000 food and piss. Whats the bet if this little junket had gone ahead several would have ended up in the health system as a result of this bash.
More power to Tony Ryall, this sort of bullshit has to come to an end. If I go to a conference I have have to pay all costs, why should these gravy suckers be any different. Let’s call these conferences out for what they are, glorified piss ups for the benefit of suckling pigs.
January 21st, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Good post on the conference by Macdoctor today (his usual high standard). He describes it as your actual talkfest. And points out that most of the attendees costs were to be paid by the taxpayer, as well as the conference cost.
Macdoctor for health minister, I say!
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:03 am
As a doctor employed by a DHB I get at least 6 flyers a year exhorting me to attend an “essential information for health professionals” conference from a company that has plugged into the conference funding stream of DHBs. These pointless junkets are paid for by vital health dollars and I suspect attended more by power dressed middle managers from DHBs than any other group. The registration costs run into the hundreds, sometime over $1000 and then there’s travel and accommodation on top.
The waste of funding is mind boggling. If they were as effective at improving health sector efficiency and performance as claimed we’d have the slickest health sector on the planet – checked lately??
Now listen to those self-serving conference organising companies squeal.
Good call Ryall.
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 am
99.0% of these conferences are waste of money. They work as follows:
1. Some bright spark jumps up and says “We need a conference”. A chorus of joy peals to the sky.
2. A working party is formed. Its most important task is to pick a catchy theme-title. “The Next Decade: Issues and Challenges in Primary Health Care”. [Note there must always be a colon in the title. This gives it academic gravitas.]
3. A glossy A4 flyer and email is mailbombed to any and all remotely connected to the sector to “invite you to submit a paper to this exciting conference”. This is the way-cool shake and bake wheeze behind the whole exercise – the would-be paper submitters create the conference. Neato!
4. Across Australasia, academics and assorted pole-climbers dust off their Open Poly assignments, student research projects and related meat-extender, salami research projects to crank out a quick jejune 3000 words and fire ‘em off to the “organising committee”.
5. Meanwhile Daddy Warbucks at the Ministry has signed off on the modest $350,000 seed money needed to book the venue, fund the working party, sort out the delegate goody bags and subvent delegates’ attendance costs.
At the same time, prospective primary healthcare delegates are applying to their DHB research slush funds for conference attendance funding [mainly airfares and the conference fee].
6. The conference itself is mainly a “networking” opportunity and a way to pump some air into the old CV. [This works to the advantage of established academic types since they can get their names tagged onto conference papers simply by proof reading the work of their undergrad/postgrad students.] The actual technical research presented is simply the meaningless fig leaf for the whole exercise. Sensible delegates might pick two or three sessions to go to, but they always attend the dinner – otherwise they piss off and socialise [network].
7. On returning to their respective DHB’s, delegates present the required seminar to a sparse audience of co-employees during a lunch break.
8. Finally, back at conference base, a group of big mommas and half-moon glasses have the delegated resonsibility to “organise next year’s conference”.
Now multipy this across the NZ public and tertiary sectors. No wonder front line service delivery is often less than impressive. Your tax dollars at work.
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:41 am
Health Care Professionals should pay half the costs?
Or even better, they can do what they want with their own money. Why should the tax payer fund any conference in the Public Sector?
I understand that there are some genuine cases of value to be gained, however they are the lower key get to-gethers in Uni Lecture Theatres and Halls.
Certainly not 5 star Lodges or Hotels.
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:10 am
cha: “And righties …. they just get their snouts in the trough.”
Note sure what you mean cha. I’m an IT contractor, I’m registered with getstaffed.com but I’ve never worked for/with/at HIQ. At the moment I’m working with a nz-owned vendor company, but yes, being in Wellington makes it difficult to not have contracted to the public sector. Have to say that I MUCH prefer private sector orgs though. There’s too much ass-covering, empire building and far too little productive work in many public sector organisations.
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:35 am
Simple test – give the potential attendees their share of the costs of the conference and tell them its up to them to go or not. If they go they have to pay the relevant costs; if they dont they can keep the money.
You would only have to do this once to establish the “value” of the conference to the attendees.