General Debate 11 January 2009

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billyborker

Is it any wonder the US is hurtling down the gurgler at a huge rate, being beaten at its own game by Europe and Asia.

“House Bill 25, introduced in the Mississippi House of Representatives by Representative Gary Chism (R-District 37) on January 6, 2009, and referred to two committees, Education and Judiciary A, would, if enacted, mandate the state board of education to require every textbook that discusses evolution to include a disclaimer describing evolution as “a controversial theory.”

Throwing out science in order to appease the religious nutters.

If there is a genuine, scientific alternative to evolution, then teach it. But there bisn’t. there’s just a bunch of people who are unable to accept their myths have been disproven.

http://ncseweb.org/news/2009/01/antievolution-legislation-mississippi-003688

[DPF: There are somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 state representatives in the US. The fact that one of them has moved a nutty motion means nothing except that he is nutty]
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January 11, 2009 10:38am
billyborker

The George Bush legacy – inheriting a strong economy and seeing it decline. US employment higher now than at any time since Shrub’s daddy was president. What does that tell you about Bush family skills?

Jobless Rate Hits 7.2%, a 16-Year High
By LOUIS UCHITELLE
The economy lost 524,000 jobs in December, bringing the
total for 2008 to 2.6 million, and a rapidly deteriorating
economy promised more in the months ahead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/business/economy/10jobs.html?th&emc=th
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January 11, 2009 10:42am
Patrick Starr

“Somali pirates drown with their booty
Abukar Haji, uncle of one of the dead men, blamed the naval surveillance for the accident that killed his pirate nephew”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10551350

Can we expect Minto and Locke protesting at the US embassy for the deaths of these poor unfortunate pirates?
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January 11, 2009 10:55am
getstaffed

Throwing out science in order to appease the religious nutters

Is this the same science that has categorically nailed global warming, cancer and the common cold? FFS evolution is a theory. Let it be taught as a theory alongside other theories, including creationism, intelligent design and other cultural explanations of the origins of the universe. The art of considered debate would be advanced by this approach, and science would gain better brains as a result.
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January 11, 2009 12:45pm
Richard

getstaffed: Evolution is taught as a theory, one with vast amounts of empirical data to back it up. Creationism and Intelligent Deisgn (which is nothing more than a dishonest campaign to promote creationism) are not theories as they have no testable hypotheisis and have as much scientific and evidential basis as astrology. Why is it you fundy-religous types are so anti-evolution but a have no problem with the theory of gravity, which has huge gaps in the understanding of how it works? Is it as billyborker suggests that your only problem with evolution is that is doesn’t matchup with your perticular brand of supersition?

On to what I came to the general debate for, it appears Kyle Chapman, a man feared by meat pies throughout the land, is planning to set up his own little survivalist/whites only community in Canterbury.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=553254

Apparently over $1,000 has been raised! Another couple of hundred year and they’ll be able to afford a section.
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January 11, 2009 1:02pm
dad4justice

Silly Kyle Chuckman spews “the First Base we set up will be in North Canterbury area somewhere”

Will it be billy borkers back yard? Oi Oi Oi .
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January 11, 2009 1:05pm
careym

I’ll bite!

> If there is a genuine, scientific alternative to evolution, then teach it. But there bisn’t.
> there’s just a bunch of people who are unable to accept their myths have been disproven.

Can “science” explain where the material came from the participated in the big bang? how was it created?

Can “science” explain how that material came to be on such a collision course to cause the big bang?

Can “science” explain how the volume/space in which the big bang came into existence was formed? or how it was formed?

Can “science” explain what the universe is expanding into?

Can “science” explain eternity?

From this questions alone I believe that “science” on its own is clearly inadequte as a completely necessary and sufficient basis for proving or disproving anything.

I also believe we need to be careful when approaching any kind of literature – it does not do the literature justice to read Shakespeare as you would a Chris Trotter column, or one of Whaleoils blog postings.

What other creation literature have you read? Babylonian creation literature? Any others?

So lets be clear, Biblical Creationism doesn’t set down the exact processes by which all things were created – all we have is the recurring pattern of God spoke and it was so.

Biblical Creationism also leaves sufficiently ambiguous the time scale on which creation happened – a God outside of time, who created the day and the night leaves us with a question – does a day as God is doing the creating a day as it is now?

Given “science” cant prove evolution – fossil record full of holes for all those perturbations and mutations necessary to provide evidence for the process that created everything from a pool of goo – it should be treated as just that – a theory.

It is also very concerning to see people dismissing the Bible without actually even looking at it – without knowing what they are talking about – look at all the false “wisdom” we now have on display in our enlightened society!
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January 11, 2009 1:31pm
wikiriwhis business

“The George Bush legacy – inheriting a strong economy and seeing it decline. US employment higher now than at any time since Shrub’s daddy was president. What does that tell you about Bush family skills?”

I’m a layman and I understand this statement completely.

Bush sucked a strong and vibrant economy into hyperspace and has made America a virtual black hole.

Who would want to live in America now.

The problem with the Americans is they wanted the greatest nation on earth.

If they instead had wanted a great nation, america would have become the greatest and its citizens would have become educated, well off and envied internationally.

That was never the agenda the White House was pursuing.

Space travel and war was the bottomless pit they used to consume America’s wealth and improverish the people.

And mostly the agenda of the Repubs.
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January 11, 2009 2:53pm
slijmbal

Intelligent Design must be true some religious nuts said so – and we now understand gravity as well http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

being a bit pedantic – science never proves anything – you can only ever disprove a theory – so theories are sort of the current custodian of the current ‘beliefs’ on certain types of behaviour – the best ones have the best predictive behaviour to facts and events
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January 11, 2009 4:17pm
Patrick Starr

Its always good to see the debate Intelligence Squared on BBC, particularly where that pompous liberal Simon Jenkins receives his comeuppance from a member of the audience during the debate on “Is George Bush the worst President in the last 50 years”

http://www.intelligencesquared.com/index.php

The next debate is on January 22, 2009 and the question is
“The United Nations is terminally paralysed: the democratic world needs a forum of its own”
you shouldn’t miss it

(and no he wasn’t – it was Nixon – Carter and LBJ)
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January 11, 2009 5:48pm
Eisenhower

You gotta laff – Pirates go down with their loot after supertanker freed
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January 11, 2009 6:11pm
billyborker

“Often people ask me,” Bush said last year, “‘Why is it that you’re so focused on helping the hungry and diseased in strange parts of the world?”‘ As governor of Texas, he had already caused a minor stir by confusing Slovakia and Slovenia, though by 2006 he was more focused on building “an Iran that is capable of resisting Iranian influence”.

No, not the worst president – just the dumbest.
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January 11, 2009 6:46pm
billyborker

“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” – August 5, 2004, at the signing ceremony for a defence spending bill.
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January 11, 2009 6:48pm
billyborker

“There’s no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we will fail.” – October 4, 2001, in Washington. Bush was remarking on a back-to-work plan after the terrorist attacks.
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January 11, 2009 6:48pm
billyborker

“Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?” – January 2000, during a campaign event in South Carolina.
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January 11, 2009 6:48pm
billyborker

Madeleine McCann – world Hide and Seek Chapion 2007 – 2008

http://www.theage.com.au/world/young-tory-expelled-over-fancy-dress-prank-20090110-7dzj.html
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January 11, 2009 6:51pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Carter or Nixon.

Which was the worst?

Were they actually representitave of the mood of the party?

Clinton was lucky to govern in a cycle of prosperity, and yet he certainly had a magic charisma.

Obama Mesiah will be the mouthpiece of a Clinton 2.0 administration.
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January 11, 2009 7:06pm
Patrick Starr

” just the dumbest” so I take it Billybarking – you’re at least 70 years – old to know this?

your sick Madeleine McCann comment puts you in contention for dumbest comment of the last 50…………
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January 11, 2009 7:15pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Tony Veitch.

Is it right that his Court case should take up to 2 years?

Did he do unspeakable things?

Was his love interest at the time in any way to blame?

Were they both involved in drug taking?

Etc
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January 11, 2009 7:25pm
big bruv

Glute

Surely the worst POTUS would come down to a choice between Carter or JFK (with the Obama Messiah making the list in four years time)
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January 11, 2009 8:55pm
the Dickie

You don’t need to be a “nutter-fundi” to recognise evolution as a twaddleful theory. The evolution display at the national muesum (Te Papa) is testament to our progressive species… yeah right! No bones—none! Engage your brain. Read both arguments. The theory simply has to climb Mt Impossible infinite times to give us even a single-celled organism (no longer called “simple” now that Biology has revealed a touch of the immense complexity within). When Mr Crick discovered DNA he immediately exclaimed that aliens must’ve seeded us. Obviously he was a bit off-beam, but the point is he recognised the implications of this vast library of information within us all.
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January 11, 2009 10:16pm

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