General Debate 29 January 2009

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Frank

“Frighteningly, like the rush into tech stocks, then the rush into real estate, and then the rush into commodities, the rush into U.S. government bonds has created a Treasury bubble. In a cruel twist of economic fate, passage of an aggressive Obama administration stimulus plan could further inflate that bubble – before popping it”.
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January 29, 2009 10:29am
MyNameIsJack

But a free society cannot be structured to soothe the hardcore faithful. It is based on a deal. You have an absolute right to voice your beliefs – but the price is that I too have a right to respond as I wish. Neither of us can set aside the rules and demand to be protected from offence.

Wise words from a wise man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-should-i-respect-these-oppressive-religions-1517789.html
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January 29, 2009 10:34am
Murray

Little something for AG http://hittingmetalwithahammer.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/a-couple-of-notes/

If you’re going to call someone out, pick smarter.
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January 29, 2009 10:37am
Nick Archer

Yeah interesting on that bubble, they are damned if they don’t hence the zeal and speed they are pushing this one through, the last bail out (Paulson’s one etc) was pretty short sighted in terms of where the money was going (a financial black hole).

If the Treasury bubble bursts it would be chaos…
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January 29, 2009 10:37am
dime

Stolen from little green footballs:

During the U.S presidential campaign, Barack Obama’s handlers vigourously pointed out his Christian faith whenever the misconception arose he may be Muslim (even though the politically correct response should have been his religion doesn’t matter).

The handlers also roundly denounced any conservative commentator who might mention (mischievously, admittedly) his Arabic middle name, Hussein.

They charged that such usage was “fear mongering.”

Once elected, however, he personally insisted on his middle name being spoken at his swearing-in ceremony.

And now – in a gesture to the Muslim world – he has not only granted the first sit-down interview of his presidency to a pan-Arab television network, but uses the occasion to gush about his Muslim ties.

“I have Muslim members of my family. I have lived in Muslim countries,” Obama tells Hisham Melhem, the Washington bureau chief of Saudi-owned Al Arabiya, which is based in Dubai.

Indeed, Obama’s Kenyan father, Barack Sr., was born into a Muslim family – though he became an atheist before arriving in Hawaii, where Obama Jr. was later born.

Obama also famously spent four years as a boy in Indonesia – the world’s most populous Muslim country.

All that’s fine, except why was no one allowed to talk much about it before he snagged the Electoral College majority?
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January 29, 2009 10:53am
dime

From Drudge:

Democrats may have eliminated provisions on birth control and sod for the National Mall in the “job stimulus” — but buried on page 147 of the bill is stimulation for prevention of sexually transmitted diseases!

The House Democrats’ bill includes $335 million for sexually transmitted disease education and prevention programs at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

haha fuckin dems
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January 29, 2009 10:56am
s.russell

I do not quite understand this “Treasury bubble” idea. How exactly could a US Govt bond burst? Are we talking about the US Govt going bankrupt?
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January 29, 2009 10:56am
infused

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/351/1050351/googling-pollutes-the-planet

STOP USING GOOGLE NOW!!!!!!!!!

IT SEEMS YOU can’t do anything nowadays without inadvertently contributing to your ever-growing, mutant-like black carbon footprint, and googling is no exception.

According to new research by Harvard University physicist Alex Wissner-Gross, every two Google searches performed generate about the same amount of noxious carbon dioxide as boiling water for a cuppa.

Apparently ye average innocuous search – ie “how big is my carbon footprint?” – produces 7g of CO2 whilst a boiling kettle generates about 15g. Don’t even get us started on Googling WHILST drinking a cuppa.

According to Wissner-Gross “Google operates huge data centres around the world that consume a great deal of power”. Shocka. But, admittedly, with well over 200 million internet searches a day, it’s no wonder the concerned boffin found the need to state that, in his humble opinion, “a Google search has a definite environmental impact.”

Of course, it’s nothing new to claim the IT industry is polluting the planet. Greenpeace bangs on about it all the time, and even Gartner recently jumped on the organic bandwagon claiming the global IT industry generated as much greenhouse gas as the world’s evil airline industry, or some filthy two per cent.

So, how exactly does a quick search for “best celebrity arse of 2008” foul up the planet? Well, firstly, any search request gets sent to a plethora of servers, which compete to get you the answer quickest. This is purportedly a rather energy-consuming enterprise, as servers which hold billions and billions of web pages filled with inane content tend to require rather a lot of power.

Wissner-Gross reckons he’s even managed to calculate the CO2 emissions caused by a single individual viewing a simple web page to about 0.02g of CO2 per second. And the physicist believes he can extrapolate that number for an individual viewing a complex, image heavy, multimedia page to 0.2g of CO2 a second.

So concerned is Wissner-Gross with the state of the planet, he’s even set up his own energy consuming website (www.CO2stats.com) for people to produce more CO2 checking how much CO2 they produce whilst wibbling away. The man’s a genius.

Google’s Senior Vice President of Operations, Urs Hölzle, was seemingly unimpressed by Wissner-Gross’ report, however, claiming in a company blog that the actual cost of a search query was closer to one twenty-fifth of the carbon released when making a cup of tea, or 0.2 grams of carbon dioxide per search.

Hölzle let off steam claiming Google’s commitment to invest in clean energy technology should also be taken into account, including Google.org’s $45 million effort to “[cut] the energy consumed by computers in half by 2010 – reducing global CO2 emissions by 54 million tons per year.”

Still, at least Google’s big dirty hoof-prints seem less significant when compared to the seeming pointlessness of maintaining a Second Life avatar, which guzzles approximately 1,752 kilowatt hours of electricity a year, or almost as much as an average Brazilian.

And if you think about it, if you weren’t noodling about on the Internet for hours, you’d probably be watching TV or going on a long country drive, both of which would sully up the planet even more.

So, good god people, just google away. µ
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January 29, 2009 11:03am
david c

“The House Democrats’ bill includes $335 million for sexually transmitted disease education and prevention programs at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

haha fuckin dems”

I’m unclear what your point is here, are you suggesting that peopel shouldn’t be taught how to avoid STDs? Or they should be encouraged to get them?
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January 29, 2009 11:20am
PhilBest

llew (1098) 2 5 Says: (On yesterday’s general debate thread).

January 28th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
“I certainly do not recall the aspect of slavery in Roman or other early times ever being dwelt upon to the extent that I took it in.”

“Moses? Spartacus? … this doesn’t reflect very well on your schooling Phil, I’ll ask my daughter what they’re teaching her these days (although she’s seen Amazing Grace, Spartacus & is familiar with the Moses story, so she’s probably aware slavery wasn’t invented in America.)”

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. The movie “Amazing Grace”, now why would the whole theme of that superb movie be something so utterly original and unknown to approximately the last two generations of our society prior to it coming out? I went right through the NZ State schooling system without hearing a mention of the name “William Wilberforce”, and what’s more, I took history as an option at high school.
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January 29, 2009 11:27am
Ryan Sproull

I liked what Colin Powell had to say about this Muslim Obama business.

Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he’s a Christian. He’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer’s no, that’s not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, ‘He’s a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists.’ This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
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January 29, 2009 11:37am
Nick Archer

s.russell “I do not quite understand this “Treasury bubble” idea. How exactly could a US Govt bond burst? Are we talking about the US Govt going bankrupt?”

Yes, I think you need to remember that it isn’t impossible for the US Government to ever go bankrupt…
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January 29, 2009 11:38am
AG

Murray (2215) Vote: Add rating 3 Subtract rating 0 Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 10:37 am

“Little something for AG http://hittingmetalwithahammer.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/a-couple-of-notes/
If you’re going to call someone out, pick smarter.”

Let’s play a thought-game. Let’s imagine David Tua and Shane Cameron are into the third round of their upcoming fight. Tua, not surprisingly, is getting pounded. So he suddenly stops boxing and says to Cameron “enough of this physical confrontation, lets settle this with a verbal argument about political theory.” What do we think of this? We think (i) “Tua wanting to argue political theory … weird!”, and (ii) “Tua is a loser – he’s involved in a boxing match, and by refusing to box and trying to change the rules of the confrontation, he’s admitting he isn’t as good at his sport as his opponent.”

Same thing goes here. This is a blog discussion site, where anonymity allows a free and robust discussion without some nutter trying to use threats of violence to suppress opinion. By trying to “take this outside” and turn it into a physical confrontation, you are admitting you can’t handle the argument. If that’s the case, stop playing the game. And if you don’t want to be called a liar, then don’t post untrue statements … or if you do and get called out, then admit it and apologise. As dime would say, simple rules for a simple world.
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January 29, 2009 11:43am
llew

went right through the NZ State schooling system without hearing a mention of the name “William Wilberforce”

Me too, now you mention it. But my point is/was, I think most people are aware that slavery has existed forever, and did not originate in the USA, and that there is no effort on the part of anyone to teach us that it did.

That’s all. ANd as I mentioned, it’s not all gleaned from schooling, but also from popular culture.
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January 29, 2009 11:43am
Inventory2

How much longer should we, as a supposedly civilised and decent society allow gangs to kill people merely because of the colour of their clothing?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/01/another-senseless-killing.html
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January 29, 2009 11:50am
dime

david c – ummm its an economic plan for job creation?
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January 29, 2009 11:50am
stephen

Inventory2, well, it’s actually not allowed. I suspect you’re making a different point though.
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January 29, 2009 11:55am
greenfly

Wilberforce was a wretch. Most school age children these days pick up references to historical events and figures primarily from throwaway lines by Bart, Homer and Lisa.
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January 29, 2009 12:07pm
Brian Smaller

greenfly (190) Vote: 0 0 Says:

January 29th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Wilberforce was a wretch. Most school age children these days pick up references to historical events and figures primarily from throwaway lines by Bart, Homer and Lisa.

That would account for a lot of your rhetoric then greenfly.
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January 29, 2009 12:34pm
Brian Smaller

By the way, does anyone on the left have anything to say about Obama ordering the murder of innocent women and children along the Pakistan/Afganistan border? Any hint of moral outrage would be appreciated?
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January 29, 2009 12:41pm
Murray

Another leftie talks tough and demands a face to face response and then pisses himself when given the opportunity.

You can just keep it shut from now on AG.

No one threatened violence,you required me to respond in person, what the hell for I don’t know, I provided the venue for it and you soiled yourself. AG evidently stands for “a girl”.
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January 29, 2009 12:47pm
AG

We play here, Murray, not at your house.

As for me “demand[ing] a face to face response”, once again you are lying. Provide a post where I did this. Go on. Do it, or you are a liar.
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January 29, 2009 12:51pm
dad4justice

AG keep your powder dry you oddball. Are you the dreaded twin sister of sonic?
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January 29, 2009 12:54pm
Ryan Sproull

AG evidently stands for “a girl”.

Hahaha
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January 29, 2009 12:57pm
PaulL

infused: here’s a trick though. If we accept Google as a constant (people will use google), arguably the people who create crappy websites with no useful content on them are the ones driving up the carbon content of searches. Presumably if I create a new crappy website today (as opposed to my old crappy one), and allow google to index it, then every google search that anybody in the world executes going forward has just become that tiny bit more polluting.

So the real culprits here aren’t those who use google searches, they are those who create crappy web sites.
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January 29, 2009 12:59pm
stephen

Google did a detailed rebuttal of that research somewhere, if anyone actually cares enough to go dig for it.
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January 29, 2009 1:06pm
AG

D4J … here’s a suggestion. You’re quite keen on threatening to thump folks. So why don’t you and Murray cut out the middle-men and meet up for a frank, face-to-face discussion?

Ryan … seriously? You are … how old??

Stephen … can I use google for that search? Quite the quandry!!
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January 29, 2009 1:15pm
Ratbiter

I thought “Get Your War On” had been canned months ago, but now I see he was running it right throughout the US election campaigns. Am loving my GYWO catch-ups:

Guy 1: I love that Sarah Palin opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest. That means if I ever get tired of waiting to be a grandfather, I can just rape my own daughter and then she’ll HAVE to give me a grandchild whether she likes it or not! No more, “But daddy, I just haven’t found the right guy yet.”

Guy 2: Exactly. Ever notice how the “pro-choice” people never mention the RAPIST’S choice? Shouldn’t he get to choose who the mother of his child is? After all, he’s the one doing all the work.

Guy 1: I just hope that when Geraldine Ferraro is fishing around in her granddaughter with a fucking coat hanger, she remembers to explain what a feminist triumph Sarah Palin is.

http://www.mnftiu.cc/category/gywo/war79/
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January 29, 2009 1:15pm
MyNameIsJack

stepehn, I’d google it, but my CFP is already too big!
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January 29, 2009 1:16pm
dad4justice

“D4J … here’s a suggestion. You’re quite keen on threatening to thump folks. So why don’t you and Murray cut out the middle-men and meet up for a frank, face-to-face discussion?”

Only a real oddball could write that garbage, oh stuff this I’m outta here.
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January 29, 2009 1:20pm
stephen

Stephen … can I use google for that search? Quite the quandry!!

Just to be on the safe side, i’d cut my internet cables up and use the copper for creating a new currency for when the $NZ bombs.
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January 29, 2009 1:31pm
BlueDevil

“Treasury bubble”

Even if the USA govt doesn’t go backrupt the market values of the bills could tank.
The value is inversely related to the yield.
Bills are being brough in a rush to safety at yields well under 1%.
If in an effort to sell $2-3 trillion of new bills to finance all the spending the US govt plans, the yield goes up, say to 5 or 10% then the market value of the existing bills would drop down to get the same yield. The capital loss would be could be trillions as the USA debt is already $10.5 trillion.

The other possible loss is if the USA can’t sell enough debt and have to print money to finance the deficit. This would devalue the USD and cause FX losses to foreigners who hold the Treasury Bills (eg China & Japan)
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January 29, 2009 1:51pm
wikiriwhis business

Cheers AG
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January 29, 2009 1:53pm
Murray

Talks a big game but demonstrably full of shit.
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January 29, 2009 2:01pm
AG

Murray,

“Talks a big game but demonstrably full of shit.”

God, but this is getting tedious. If I am “demonstrably full of shit”, then demonstrate it. Otherwise, you are making a false statement, which makes you a … and you know the rest. Now you challenge me to say this to your face … and around we go again.

BTW – you have unfinished business from 12.51pm…

“As for me “demand[ing] a face to face response”, once again you are lying. Provide a post where I did this. Go on. Do it, or you are a liar.”
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January 29, 2009 2:09pm
MyNameIsJack

dad4justice (4688) Vote: 0 3 Says:

January 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
“D4J … here’s a suggestion. You’re quite keen on threatening to thump folks. So why don’t you and Murray cut out the middle-men and meet up for a frank, face-to-face discussion?”

Only a real oddball could write that garbage, oh stuff this I’m outta here.

For this relief, much thanks.
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January 29, 2009 2:17pm
dime

you bitches wanna hug it out?
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January 29, 2009 2:36pm
side show bob

You go away for a few hours, come back and they are at each others throats, perhaps David should call a family croup conference and we could get Cindy in. I here she is doing stuff all these days.

For those living in Chch, how far is the Mah tavern from the city or airport?
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January 29, 2009 3:08pm
PhilBest

# BlueDevil (17) Vote: Add rating1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

“Treasury bubble”

“Even if the USA govt doesn’t go backrupt the market values of the bills could tank.
The value is inversely related to the yield.
Bills are being brough in a rush to safety at yields well under 1%.
If in an effort to sell $2-3 trillion of new bills to finance all the spending the US govt plans, the yield goes up, say to 5 or 10% then the market value of the existing bills would drop down to get the same yield. The capital loss would be could be trillions as the USA debt is already $10.5 trillion.

The other possible loss is if the USA can’t sell enough debt and have to print money to finance the deficit. This would devalue the USD and cause FX losses to foreigners who hold the Treasury Bills (eg China & Japan)”

Very, very well explained, Blue Devil. We live in interesting times.

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/01/disappearing-money-multiplier.html

The M1 money multiplier going below “1” for the first time in history……….?
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January 29, 2009 3:31pm
PhilBest

# llew (1099) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 1 Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 11:43 am

“… went right through the NZ State schooling system without hearing a mention of the name “William Wilberforce”

“Me too, now you mention it. But my point is/was, I think most people are aware that slavery has existed forever, and did not originate in the USA, and that there is no effort on the part of anyone to teach us that it did.

That’s all. And as I mentioned, it’s not all gleaned from schooling, but also from popular culture.”

Thanks for admitting that about William Wilberforce. Don’t you think that that is a bit disgraceful?

But I did not mean to be so blunt as to say that I was “taught that slavery originated in the USA”; it is merely a question of what is emphasised to impressionable small children. And the emphasis in my schooling, was on slavery in the USA, and at no time was I informed of context, that is, that slavery was a norm that was repudiated for the first time in human history, by the very race that appeared in all the teaching I received, as the sole offender in the matter.

I agree it is not all gleaned from schooling; and I certainly only gleaned the knowledge of the broad sweep of history that I have, from doing my own reading, in spite of having done “history” right through high school; which tended to focus on narrow bits of history, mostly comparatively recent history at that; particularly selected to bolster some P.C. point, usually that reflected poorly on Anglo Saxons and Christendom. Not just that, but it was BORING. I have encountered teenagers who say the same thing, and I try to encourage them to discover for themselves that History is actually interesting; indeed, a lack of knowledge of it bodes ill for a people.

Regarding your point about popular culture, how many popular movies have been made that tell the story that “Amazing Grace” does, and how many movies that paint white men as mostly evil slavers……?
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January 29, 2009 3:44pm
Ryan Sproull

Ryan … seriously? You are … how old??

I just liked how A stood for “a”. “A Girl”. Hahahaha. Of course! It’s so simple!

What’s brown and rhymes with Snoop?

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Dr Dre.
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January 29, 2009 3:50pm
stephen

…and how many movies that paint white men as mostly evil slavers……?

This bystander wonders if you’re asking how many (generally) movies paint white men as evil slavers? Would be an odd question.
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January 29, 2009 3:52pm
llew

Thanks for admitting that about William Wilberforce. Don’t you think that that is a bit disgraceful?

That they don’t teach us about him here in NZ? Hmmm… I’m ambivalent, I don’t recall he was ever mentioned when I was at school in the UK either – I’d be more concerned about that probably, but I only got as far as the Norman Conquest before I returned to NZ.

And speaking of pop culture – did you notice (in the book, I don’t think that it was clear in the movie) that in Once Were Warriors, it’s Beth whose family once were warriors, Jake’s family Once Were Slaves (hence Beth’s whanau disapproved of the union).
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January 29, 2009 3:53pm
stephen

And the emphasis in my schooling, was on slavery in the USA, and at no time was I informed of context, that is, that slavery was a norm that was repudiated for the first time in human history, by the very race that appeared in all the teaching I received, as the sole offender in the matter.

I humbly suggest that learning about slavery in the USA must be very tempting to emphasise, seeing as it leads to the underground railroad, the civil war, and the civil rights movement, etcetera. Not mentioning the fact that slavery was ‘a norm’ is a lapse, but spending half a lesson getting the boring bits about the Greeks and Arabs out of the way so as to get to the good stuff isn’t exactly a hangable offense. My own history education is far from formidable, so perhaps i’m missing some key themes re: the Greeks, Arabs etc…
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January 29, 2009 3:59pm
AG

Ryan,

Now THAT was funny.
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January 29, 2009 4:06pm
big bruv

I see that a member of the apartheid party wants a soft Marae trial for the gang member who run over and killed the young chap in Murupara.

Key needs to sort this out immediatly, we cannot have two justice systems in New Zealand and we cannot go soft on scum simply because they are Maori.
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January 29, 2009 4:26pm
BlueDevil

Philbest

Yes we live in interesting times and they are going to get more “interesting”

If you have trouble sleeping at night – dont read these links and other articles on this site

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article8529.html
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article8541.html
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January 29, 2009 4:41pm
dad4justice

“For those living in Chch, how far is the Mah tavern from the city or airport?”

sideshowbob -The “Mah tavern”? I know most watering holes on the plains but I can’t say I have necked piss in such a place. And please don’t tell Cindy K ,as the vindictive childrens commissioner is always trying to have me arrested. Her job should be mine.

Edit – Ryan do you want me to make you cry again?
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January 29, 2009 5:08pm
Ryan Sproull

D4J,

Huh?
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January 29, 2009 5:13pm
PhilBest

llew (1101) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

“Thanks for admitting that about William Wilberforce. Don’t you think that that is a bit disgraceful?”

“That they don’t teach us about him here in NZ? Hmmm… I’m ambivalent, I don’t recall he was ever mentioned when I was at school in the UK either – I’d be more concerned about that probably, but I only got as far as the Norman Conquest before I returned to NZ…..”

Nice point about “Once Were Warriors”, too, if you read it carefully enough at the age at which you notice those kinds of details. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they DON’T teach about Wilberforce in the UK either. The teaching profession in the West and especially the Universities, has largely become dominated by the notion that our own culture is to be denigrated at every opportunity. Melanie Phillips has written a lot about this, and Amy Brooke in NZ.
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January 29, 2009 5:17pm
PhilBest

I think that one thing that John Maynard Keynes was actually right about, was that the best way to stimulate an economy was by a housing construction boom. It is absurd to NOT have this, when there is a shortage of houses, houses are priced too high, and land shortages are entirely artificial and the result of politics; AND we have a construction industry that had virtually closed its doors and laid everybody off over the very period of time that these shortages were mounting and prices were going through the roof; let alone now.

It is counterintuitive, perhaps, but wouldn’t lending institutions be pretty OK with lending money on brand new $180,000 houses on the edge of the city – rather than $360,000 houses, the extra $180,000 being inflated land value? A house construction boom along these lines would be something that everyone could have confidence in, and it would provide needed jobs that are unlikely to be “created” out of thin air elsewhere, regardless of what politicians with Messianic complexes claim to be able to do.
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January 29, 2009 5:18pm
dad4justice

Sorry Ryan. Doh.
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January 29, 2009 5:20pm
PhilBest

From the latest Wall Street Journal:

“$646,214 per Government Job”, by Alan Reynolds

“House Democrats propose to spend $550 billion of their two-year, $825 billion “stimulus bill” (the rest of it being tax cuts). Most of the spending is unlikely to be timely or temporary. Strangely, most of it is targeted toward sectors of the economy where unemployment is the lowest.

The December unemployment rate was only 2.3% for government workers and 3.8% in education and health. Unemployment rates in manufacturing and construction, by contrast, were 8.3% and 15.2% respectively. Yet 39% of the $550 billion in the bill would go to state and local governments. Another 17.3% would go to health and education — sectors where relatively secure government jobs are also prevalent.

If the intent of the plan is to alleviate unemployment, why spend over half of the money on sectors where unemployment is lowest? Another 22.5% of the $550 billion would go to social programs, such as expanding food stamps and extending benefits for the unemployed and subsidizing their health insurance.

After subtracting what House Democrats hope to spend on government payrolls, health, education and welfare, only a fifth of the original $550 billion is left for notoriously slow infrastructure projects, such as rebuilding highways and the electricity grid……”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310498020322323.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
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January 29, 2009 5:22pm
Ryan Sproull

No worries, D4J.
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January 29, 2009 5:26pm
PhilBest

Oo-er, Blue Devil……..

I do recommend everyone take a brave peek at the graphs in that second link you provided:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article8541.html

It would be interesting to see some NZ comparisons.

The one that bugs me, is that the USA total housing stock went to $25 Trillion at the peak of their “bubble”, while their GDP is about $13 Trillion; while NZ, who we are told is in a much better shape, has housing stock that peaked at $610 billion, with a GDP of $178 billion. ER, if we do the sums, who has a “housing bubble”?
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January 29, 2009 5:29pm
PhilBest

Get the point of that Wall Street Journal Article?

“…..The December unemployment rate was only 2.3% for government workers and 3.8% in education and health. Unemployment rates in manufacturing and construction, by contrast, were 8.3% and 15.2% respectively. Yet 39% of the $550 billion in the bill would go to state and local governments. Another 17.3% would go to health and education — sectors where relatively secure government jobs are also prevalent.

If the intent of the plan is to alleviate unemployment, why spend over half of the money on sectors where unemployment is lowest?…”

In NZ, the validity of having a boom in house building is even greater, because at least parts of the USA do not have a housing shortage; we do.
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January 29, 2009 5:32pm
PhilBest

Ah, here’s an interview with Bernard Goldberg about his new book, “A Slobbering Love Affair”; which is of course about the MSM’s relationship with Obama:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=4E694574-C6D9-4B2F-BDFD-723257BF7AC9
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January 29, 2009 5:35pm
joeAverage

You have to love living in godsown , BENIFIT heven 3.00pm NewstalkZB news 14 yo PREGNANT girl picked up (drink driving) . Women stabbed in SOUTH DORKLAND, sigh as a fuckwit early shift worker , LETS GUESS THE RACE OF BOTH PARTIES IN BOTH EVENTS,( Islander or maori) fuck i sigh, I WISH I WAS BROWN WHAT WHAT,,NOT NOT NOT NO RESPONSABLILTY EVER , im a old skilled white honkey, I WILL NEVER APPEAR IN THE NEWS Hori i train my dogs to have dicipline i wish some bros had it( my DOGS have more control :))
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January 29, 2009 5:41pm
joeAverage

PS check out my spelling mistakes My wife has, but thats tough , PS sorry for caps , HEHEHEHE , WHO cares
remember DONT GET INVOLVED ,you could die and P is the new defence
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January 29, 2009 5:49pm
side show bob

D4j sorry that should be the Mak tavern. One of my mates is having his 50th and many of his former idiot mates from this part of the world are invited to his piss up. It would be rude not to oblige. Don’t know a lot about chch, been their once about 15 years ago. Have to talk mum and the kids into milking a few days and will probably fly down. Just wondering how far out of chch the Mak is.
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January 29, 2009 6:17pm
transmogrifier

What is the answer for the gang problem? That poor kid, sounded like he was a grounded, ambitious young man (insert caveat about the whitewahing nature of eulogies, but still) who was killed for wearing yellow. That is just insanity. Are gangs the inevitable result of a minority inhabiting lower socioeconomic rungs – allowing fatalism (in terms of “I was born brown (or pink or green etc)” so I don’t stand a chance – to lead to the development of a fake, perverse, violent, exclusive community?

Part of me would love to see the police just storm in and knock heads together. But the sad thing is, I don’t think it would do a thing to stop the problem. And that’s all I care about.

Any ideas how to drag our country out of this mess, rather than playing the blame game?
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January 29, 2009 7:21pm
joeAverage

ps 14 yo pregnant kid 6 times over the limit drink/driving AGAIN .Fellow tax payers a big problem is growing up.How much will this loosekid/girl bludger cost us poor everpaying taxpayers and when will a (uncle) bash her meal ticket to death(sorry the countries been down this road before again and again????AND AGAIN, what year will she pop up again,
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January 29, 2009 7:37pm
Banana Llama

transmogrifier 7:21 pm

To be honest if we started now it would take 20 years, if we don’t raise children to have pride in their country, the just rule of law and a vision for a better future we will continue to sit in a quagmire. This dosn’t mean making their minds up about what political party to vote for and how we should handle the growing entitlements ect, that’s for them to decide as it’s their future.
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January 29, 2009 7:57pm
grumpyoldhori

Transmogrifier , Maori generation problem, an answer to it, yes there is, they could build a lot more Dilworth type schools where the kids live as well as learn from the age of seven.
Approach the parents, say want a better life for your kid than what you have.
Some crap parents would say no sod off i would lose my benefit.

Will the government do it, of course not, just look at all those rice bowls owned by so called social workers, think they want an answer to the problems some families have when there is promotion to work for ?
A fence at the top is cheaper, but it would cost a lot of well paid so called jobs in ten to twenty years.
Of course I could be a cynical old bastard.
One thing that got me with Duff’s books in the home, why buy the kids books, why not a bloody library card ?
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January 29, 2009 8:47pm
dad4justice

Hi side show bob, the ol Mak bar is situated beside the Waimakarri River hence the name. Hoppy the publican is a good bastard and it’s about seven miles North of Cathedral Square. Had many a good session in the place especially after hauling bait and salmon from the river a stones throw from the bar. They don’t serve wankers so you won’t bump into a roger nome type freak.
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January 29, 2009 8:53pm
grumpyoldhori

PhilBest, one small problem with the $180,000 homes in Auckland.
Can you imagine the utter screams of rage from those who paid $180,000 for their bit of Auckland dirt who have just seen their homes half in value ?

Maybe there are just too many vested interests for the amount of land needed to be made available.
Or will young new home buyers be smart enough to get together and get the land needed released ?
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January 29, 2009 9:06pm
wikiriwhis business

Sounds like the Mak is around Belfast
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January 29, 2009 9:15pm
wikiriwhis business

“I think most people are aware that slavery has existed forever, and did not originate in the USA, and that there is no effort on the part of anyone to teach us that it did.”

The truth is Lincoln won his candicacy on the slavery platform.

In his home state of Illinois it was illegal for blacks to enter.

Obama’s choice of Lincolns train trip to Washington wasn’t completely repeated. Lincoln had to travel through Baltimore at night lest his train was mobbed. He back pedalled on his slavery promise very quickly. But the US was the last commercial slavery nation.
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January 29, 2009 9:26pm
djg

Why have our media not covered the murder of good samaritan Mark McCutcheon, to the same extent they did Austen Hemmings, both went to the aid of a women in distress and were murdered for their troubles.

Why the different coverage ?
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January 29, 2009 9:27pm
Komata

Apropos the murder in Murapara: Has anyone else noticed that whenever this sort of thing happens the Maori and Island ‘Leaders’ are conspicuously absent with their comments and condemnations of the perpetrators?

I would have thought that, in view of the incredible rise in violence amongst their own there would have been expressions of concern and details about intended remedial actions from those at the very top of teh tree (even from MP’s (shock, horror!!). But no – never a tweet – evidently it’s ‘The Maori and Island way’.

As I said – is it just me?
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January 29, 2009 9:37pm
wikiriwhis business

Russia halts missile plan in ‘olive branch’ to Obama

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/russia-halts-missile-plan-in-olive-branch-to-obama-1618640.html

Read this D4J

I remember reading Hinamanu saying last year as soon as Bush is gone Russia will bring down the bombers it was flying 24hrs around the clock. This is practically the same.

You said he was embarassing himself. I personally would look forward to more of his predictions.
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January 29, 2009 9:50pm
dad4justice

“I remember reading Hinamanu”

Good on you wb, I think he has mutated into a billy borker now. Same tribe matey. If you trust Putin you are totally insane.
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January 29, 2009 9:54pm
thedavincimode

djg says:

“Why have our media not covered the murder of good samaritan Mark McCutcheon, to the same extent they did Austen Hemmings …”

Oh dear. This comment reflects a sad naivity and lack of knowledge about the criteria relevant to establishing what is newsworthy and deserving of the incisive hard-hitting and no punches pulled investigative reporting talents of our media.

djg, there are a number of reasons, but for the sake of some attempt at brevity I’ll just mention the three most significant reasons.

First, and most importantly, Austen Hemmings died in central Auckland almost literally a stone’s throw away from several media HQs. Consequently, the “scene” was just a hop and a scip around the corner and easily accessible for the gasping interviews, the shock horror probe/outraged indignation that this could happen in CBD Auckland, and post-action piccies.

Whereas Mark died in Onga Onga, Central Hawke’s Bay (that’s CHB, as distinct from CBD). I am not suggesting that this was a deliberate attempt by Mark to frustrate the media’s ability to bring its high powered and hard-hitting journalistic artillery to bear however, it has to be appreciated that he did make things a little inconvenient for them. Any coverage of this story would clearly have involved a degree of inconvenience. That is why, when everyone in CHB knew what had actually happened by the following night, two nights later the TVNZ coverage had Simon Dildo gravely announcing that Mark had died “in a fight”; thereby casting the impression that Mark was something of a deadbeat yobbo in a pub punchup; as distinct from a much loved son, friend, husband and father of three who wouldn’t ordinarily hurt a fly, and was trying to stop a Mongrel mob member from beating a woman. You see djg, getting the story right would have just been too difficult. It would have involved despatching an Ace Cub reporter to the scene to talk to the locals, or perhaps even just picking up the telephone. Just not practical you see.

This is a roundabout way of explaining one of the most fundamental tenets of high-powered hard-hitting journalism; namely that newsworthiness is directly proportional to the ease of reporting. Austen rated a 10/10 for convenience giving him a newsworthiness rating (NR) of 10. Mark was a 2/10 for convenience, giving him a NR of 2.

Second, only 14% of the population lives the country or the semi-rural environs. That means that social issues underlying the beating of a woman and death of a good samaritan in CBD Auckland are 600% more important than those underying the beating of a woman and death of a good samaritan in rural CHB. Furthermore, the issues in CHB are a little more complicated. They didn’t just involve some loser with a drinking problem. They involved the Mongrel Mob and its ability to wander around as it pleases dispensing violence to whomever, the lack of inititiative of Broad Howard and his regional heads in addressing mechanisms to enhance saftey in rural communities (which might not have helped Mark in this case but might still help others) and perhaps acknowledging that rural residents deserve something more from the police force than than the odd speeding ticket (and in this regard, Highway 50 is regarded as prime hunting territory). You see djg, this sort of stuff is far too complicated to slot into the 30 second sound bite. The media has no option but to go for the good old dependable “cat stuck up tree” and “holiday-makers flee to beach to escape heat” fodder.

Finally, lets face it, there was a bit of competition on in the crime reporting department at the time. A more in-depth coverage of Mark’s death and the reasons underlying what went on down there, or asking police heads why it is that gang members can casually lob into Murapara and kill an entirely innocent kid, is time lost in awaiting Broad Howard’s arrival at Auckland airport to breathlessly ask him if he had concerns about the police shooting an innocent victim. Come on, be honest; we were all on the edge of our seats weren’t we? Would he say it was a terrible tragedy and that there would be a thorough review of what happened? Or would he say that you can’t make an omelette without breaking the odd egg? Combine the suspense factor (SR) of 10/10 for that question with its NR of 9 (derived from its convenience of 9 – being Auckland airport) and you get a shock horror probe rating (SHPR) of 10×9 = 90. How could you pass that up!

djg, I hope this answers your question in part at least.
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January 30, 2009 12:37pm

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