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	<title>Comments on: Yay</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: wikiriwhis business</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536963</link>
		<dc:creator>wikiriwhis business</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536963</guid>
		<description>PM stated the US will not allow us free trade with them if we don&#039;t accept this law

shows what a bunch of Nazis they really are</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PM stated the US will not allow us free trade with them if we don&#8217;t accept this law</p>
<p>shows what a bunch of Nazis they really are</p>
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		<title>By: deanknight</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536863</link>
		<dc:creator>deanknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536863</guid>
		<description>DPF:  Yes and no.  

The relevant expert supervisory bodies (LAC and Regs Review) are (barely) content to allow the Executive Council to commence legislation by OiC, eg, when it&#039;s uncertain when preliminary work will be completed in order to allow the legislation - passed by the House - to be operative.  

However, it might be different when the Executive changes their mind and tries to suspend or, in some respects, effectively repeal legislation that has been set on the path to commencement...  

It&#039;s legally possible to amend an OiC (see s 15 Interp Act).  But I&#039;m not sure whether or not it&#039;s constitutionally proper in this case or not, esp when it has a similar effect to the largely discredited Henry VIII clauses.  As with many constitutional principles, it might turn on circumstances and degree. I would have preferred some dialogue or reassurance on the point - because it raises eyebrows - ala Fitzgerald v Muldoon.   

And it&#039;s not a partisan call - I understand a previous OiC was amended or revoked in relation to this Bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPF:  Yes and no.  </p>
<p>The relevant expert supervisory bodies (LAC and Regs Review) are (barely) content to allow the Executive Council to commence legislation by OiC, eg, when it&#8217;s uncertain when preliminary work will be completed in order to allow the legislation &#8211; passed by the House &#8211; to be operative.  </p>
<p>However, it might be different when the Executive changes their mind and tries to suspend or, in some respects, effectively repeal legislation that has been set on the path to commencement&#8230;  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s legally possible to amend an OiC (see s 15 Interp Act).  But I&#8217;m not sure whether or not it&#8217;s constitutionally proper in this case or not, esp when it has a similar effect to the largely discredited Henry VIII clauses.  As with many constitutional principles, it might turn on circumstances and degree. I would have preferred some dialogue or reassurance on the point &#8211; because it raises eyebrows &#8211; ala Fitzgerald v Muldoon.   </p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not a partisan call &#8211; I understand a previous OiC was amended or revoked in relation to this Bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Madeleine</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536708</link>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536708</guid>
		<description>&quot;If agreement on the TCF code can’t be reached by ... then it may remain suspended.&quot;

So basically, as written, it&#039;s dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If agreement on the TCF code can’t be reached by &#8230; then it may remain suspended.&#8221;</p>
<p>So basically, as written, it&#8217;s dead.</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536700</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536700</guid>
		<description>Congratulations David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations David</p>
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		<title>By: goodgod</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536698</link>
		<dc:creator>goodgod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536698</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t it be wonderful if National had listened becasue of the public outcry.  But no, they didn&#039;t, even if the blacked out screens made everyone feel empowered for a few days.  With 16,000 on a petition, they apparently, &quot;listened&quot;.

But circa 300,000 on S59 petition and they still refuse to &quot;listen&quot; ?

They listened to themselves and the people that mattered to them.  Man is not created equal.

Greenfly was right, even if he was just trolling, ;) 

National ran a common marketing ploy - create the problem, then sweep in with a solution to look like the hero.  I guess they won the 2011 I.T. vote, huh? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it be wonderful if National had listened becasue of the public outcry.  But no, they didn&#8217;t, even if the blacked out screens made everyone feel empowered for a few days.  With 16,000 on a petition, they apparently, &#8220;listened&#8221;.</p>
<p>But circa 300,000 on S59 petition and they still refuse to &#8220;listen&#8221; ?</p>
<p>They listened to themselves and the people that mattered to them.  Man is not created equal.</p>
<p>Greenfly was right, even if he was just trolling, <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>National ran a common marketing ploy &#8211; create the problem, then sweep in with a solution to look like the hero.  I guess they won the 2011 I.T. vote, huh? <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: adc</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536696</link>
		<dc:creator>adc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536696</guid>
		<description>no surprise to see Campbell Smith (a lawyer that doesn&#039;t understand Conflict of Interest) peddling this crap.  Just take a look at how many bands in the music awards for the last 4 years weren&#039;t signed to CRS management.  Not many.  Funny how CRS management bands win the CRS (Campbell R Smith) aka RIANZ music awards all the time.

So that letter is full of crap too.  For starters the database of IP to country maintained by ARIN, APNIC, LACNIC, Afrinic and RIPE are NOT accurate.  They are full of inconsistencies and errors. http://www.cidr-report.org/bogons/rir-data.html

I guess he doesn&#039;t consider the fact that the reports can be spoofed either to be a problem.  Who do you believe, Campbell Smith, or the university of Washington?  http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/

but hey, lets take away whatever slim opportunities the accused has to protest, and make it even more impossible for them to prove their innocence.

Well, I believe it should be the copyright holders proving guilt, not the other way around.  And knowing as much about IP and TCP as I do, I know that&#039;s impossible for them to prove anything from a distance - for good reason, and for the same reasons the Chinese government can&#039;t stop people surfing where they want.  Open proxies.   

But I guess that doesn&#039;t stop them from trying to disconnect you from the net.  It&#039;s completely absurd that anyone stood for this, let alone passed it into law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no surprise to see Campbell Smith (a lawyer that doesn&#8217;t understand Conflict of Interest) peddling this crap.  Just take a look at how many bands in the music awards for the last 4 years weren&#8217;t signed to CRS management.  Not many.  Funny how CRS management bands win the CRS (Campbell R Smith) aka RIANZ music awards all the time.</p>
<p>So that letter is full of crap too.  For starters the database of IP to country maintained by ARIN, APNIC, LACNIC, Afrinic and RIPE are NOT accurate.  They are full of inconsistencies and errors. <a href="http://www.cidr-report.org/bogons/rir-data.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cidr-report.org/bogons/rir-data.html</a></p>
<p>I guess he doesn&#8217;t consider the fact that the reports can be spoofed either to be a problem.  Who do you believe, Campbell Smith, or the university of Washington?  <a href="http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/</a></p>
<p>but hey, lets take away whatever slim opportunities the accused has to protest, and make it even more impossible for them to prove their innocence.</p>
<p>Well, I believe it should be the copyright holders proving guilt, not the other way around.  And knowing as much about IP and TCP as I do, I know that&#8217;s impossible for them to prove anything from a distance &#8211; for good reason, and for the same reasons the Chinese government can&#8217;t stop people surfing where they want.  Open proxies.   </p>
<p>But I guess that doesn&#8217;t stop them from trying to disconnect you from the net.  It&#8217;s completely absurd that anyone stood for this, let alone passed it into law.</p>
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		<title>By: Brownie</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536686</link>
		<dc:creator>Brownie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536686</guid>
		<description>Would have thought that JK would allow Chris F to get a couple of runs on the board announcing the decision himself. After recent poll results he can allow to let a couple of the other Nat bright lights shine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would have thought that JK would allow Chris F to get a couple of runs on the board announcing the decision himself. After recent poll results he can allow to let a couple of the other Nat bright lights shine.</p>
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		<title>By: NoCash</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536684</link>
		<dc:creator>NoCash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536684</guid>
		<description>aardvark, good point re the COP.

If the ISPs and the copyright holders can&#039;t come to agreement on the code, how long can S92A be left on the shelf? Indefinitely?

[DPF: The ISPs are morally obliged to try and come to a good faith agreement on the code. However this decision means they do not have to to compromise on key principles such as not letting the complainant decide the validity of a rebuttal to a complaint, and charging a processing fee.

As S92A won&#039;t occur until there is an agreed code, it now gives the rights holders a big incentive to be more reasonable, and not water down the protections in the TCF code]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aardvark, good point re the COP.</p>
<p>If the ISPs and the copyright holders can&#8217;t come to agreement on the code, how long can S92A be left on the shelf? Indefinitely?</p>
<p>[DPF: The ISPs are morally obliged to try and come to a good faith agreement on the code. However this decision means they do not have to to compromise on key principles such as not letting the complainant decide the validity of a rebuttal to a complaint, and charging a processing fee.</p>
<p>As S92A won't occur until there is an agreed code, it now gives the rights holders a big incentive to be more reasonable, and not water down the protections in the TCF code]</p>
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		<title>By: enough rope</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536682</link>
		<dc:creator>enough rope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536682</guid>
		<description>Yeah, respect, Aardvark. 
You&#039;ve been right about a hell of a lot more than you&#039;ve been wrong about.
Let&#039;s hope the ISPs/copyright interests can be half as sensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, respect, Aardvark.<br />
You&#8217;ve been right about a hell of a lot more than you&#8217;ve been wrong about.<br />
Let&#8217;s hope the ISPs/copyright interests can be half as sensible.</p>
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		<title>By: WebWrat</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536677</link>
		<dc:creator>WebWrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536677</guid>
		<description>aardvark

How refreshing to see someone admitting they made a mistake.

Please accept my + karma as a token of my respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aardvark</p>
<p>How refreshing to see someone admitting they made a mistake.</p>
<p>Please accept my + karma as a token of my respect.</p>
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		<title>By: aardvark</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536671</link>
		<dc:creator>aardvark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536671</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m finding it a little hard to read this -- mainly because of all the egg on my face :D

I&#039;m so glad I was wrong (well at least a bit) about the effectiveness of the blackout campaign and I&#039;m not afraid to admit that I underestimated the amount of attention government was giving it.

Hooray!

Now, if the ISPs have half a brain they won&#039;t try too hard to come up with a COP and that&#039;ll mean the whole concept of guilt on accusation will be turfed out (if JK is true to his word).

The war isn&#039;t over and I don&#039;t think we should give up on lobbying against S92A just because there&#039;s been a delay in its implementation.

Sometimes it&#039;s really great to be wrong!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m finding it a little hard to read this &#8212; mainly because of all the egg on my face <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m so glad I was wrong (well at least a bit) about the effectiveness of the blackout campaign and I&#8217;m not afraid to admit that I underestimated the amount of attention government was giving it.</p>
<p>Hooray!</p>
<p>Now, if the ISPs have half a brain they won&#8217;t try too hard to come up with a COP and that&#8217;ll mean the whole concept of guilt on accusation will be turfed out (if JK is true to his word).</p>
<p>The war isn&#8217;t over and I don&#8217;t think we should give up on lobbying against S92A just because there&#8217;s been a delay in its implementation.</p>
<p>Sometimes it&#8217;s really great to be wrong!</p>
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		<title>By: greenfly</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536656</link>
		<dc:creator>greenfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536656</guid>
		<description>wreck1080 - don&#039;t mind telling you. I&#039;ve several &#039;jobs&#039;. I&#039;m paid for 4 of them. Others are voluntary. I&#039;ve a contracting business plus I&#039;m in partnership with my son (a consultancy) plus I work for the State (part time) plus I employ 5 people (none of those jobs are overlapped in case you think I&#039;m spinning). I chair 2 Incorporated Societies. I contribute &#039;written material&#039; to several publishing agencies :-) (not counting blogs here) and get paid for it.  I&#039;m a busy guy. I&#039;ve been working since well before I left school. Had &lt;i&gt; lots &lt;/i&gt; jobs. How about you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wreck1080 &#8211; don&#8217;t mind telling you. I&#8217;ve several &#8216;jobs&#8217;. I&#8217;m paid for 4 of them. Others are voluntary. I&#8217;ve a contracting business plus I&#8217;m in partnership with my son (a consultancy) plus I work for the State (part time) plus I employ 5 people (none of those jobs are overlapped in case you think I&#8217;m spinning). I chair 2 Incorporated Societies. I contribute &#8216;written material&#8217; to several publishing agencies <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  (not counting blogs here) and get paid for it.  I&#8217;m a busy guy. I&#8217;ve been working since well before I left school. Had <i> lots </i> jobs. How about you?</p>
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		<title>By: Harpoon</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536650</link>
		<dc:creator>Harpoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536650</guid>
		<description>Just one question regarding this bit:
&lt;blockquote&gt;... the positions being taken by certain rights holders groups that they should be allowed to both make the complaints, and adjudicate on its validity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree that this looks unfair. BUT aren&#039;t there other situations in NZ that already have similar provisions in place. What about the one about pubs having to have a policy to eject people who appear to be drunk? Shops that are allowed to refuse to serve people on a whim? Shops that erect signs saying they &quot;reserve the right to search the bags of patrons&quot;, when only Police actually have stop and search powers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one question regarding this bit:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; the positions being taken by certain rights holders groups that they should be allowed to both make the complaints, and adjudicate on its validity.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree that this looks unfair. BUT aren&#8217;t there other situations in NZ that already have similar provisions in place. What about the one about pubs having to have a policy to eject people who appear to be drunk? Shops that are allowed to refuse to serve people on a whim? Shops that erect signs saying they &#8220;reserve the right to search the bags of patrons&#8221;, when only Police actually have stop and search powers?</p>
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		<title>By: wreck1080</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536648</link>
		<dc:creator>wreck1080</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536648</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to know what greenfly does for a crust....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to know what greenfly does for a crust&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: gopolks</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536645</link>
		<dc:creator>gopolks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536645</guid>
		<description>Good job, hopefully they will get rid of this illegal piece of legislation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good job, hopefully they will get rid of this illegal piece of legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: slijmbal</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536644</link>
		<dc:creator>slijmbal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536644</guid>
		<description>The funny thing is that it&#039;s pretty easy to get around - there are free (but capped) services that allow offshore tunneling so you IP address is disguised. 

Or for $40 US pa you can be pretty much anonymous without limitation on everything you do.

So they can pass it but they&#039;ll catch the 12 year old using mum and dad&#039;s computer who didn&#039;t realise it was illegal - another reason not to pass the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funny thing is that it&#8217;s pretty easy to get around &#8211; there are free (but capped) services that allow offshore tunneling so you IP address is disguised. </p>
<p>Or for $40 US pa you can be pretty much anonymous without limitation on everything you do.</p>
<p>So they can pass it but they&#8217;ll catch the 12 year old using mum and dad&#8217;s computer who didn&#8217;t realise it was illegal &#8211; another reason not to pass the law.</p>
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		<title>By: slightlyrighty</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536643</link>
		<dc:creator>slightlyrighty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536643</guid>
		<description>Well, we have a government that is being seen to be listening at long last.  While the outcome remains in doubt, the process that this government is going through is refreshing compared to it&#039;s predecessor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we have a government that is being seen to be listening at long last.  While the outcome remains in doubt, the process that this government is going through is refreshing compared to it&#8217;s predecessor.</p>
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		<title>By: Morphyoss</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536641</link>
		<dc:creator>Morphyoss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536641</guid>
		<description>Some of you guys don&#039;t seem to realise that the law has not been &quot;overturned&quot; it has only been delayed. Labour too had already delayed implementation of s92 when it amended the copyright act late last year. 

It is great news that it has been delayed, but really it should be scrapped outright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of you guys don&#8217;t seem to realise that the law has not been &#8220;overturned&#8221; it has only been delayed. Labour too had already delayed implementation of s92 when it amended the copyright act late last year. </p>
<p>It is great news that it has been delayed, but really it should be scrapped outright.</p>
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		<title>By: NoCash</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536640</link>
		<dc:creator>NoCash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536640</guid>
		<description>Christopher

I think the copyright holders will likely use honey pods to collect the IPs of would-be offenders using torrent, so encryption isn&#039;t really a counter measure. Interesting to know how they plan to tackle companies like Rapidshare and Megaupload though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher</p>
<p>I think the copyright holders will likely use honey pods to collect the IPs of would-be offenders using torrent, so encryption isn&#8217;t really a counter measure. Interesting to know how they plan to tackle companies like Rapidshare and Megaupload though&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: NoCash</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/yay-2.html#comment-536639</link>
		<dc:creator>NoCash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=30900#comment-536639</guid>
		<description>Christopher

I think the copyright holders will likely use honey pods to collect the IPs of would-be offenders using torrent, so encryption isn&#039;t really a counter measure. Interesting to know how they plan to tackle companies like Rapidshare, Megaupload, and many others though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher</p>
<p>I think the copyright holders will likely use honey pods to collect the IPs of would-be offenders using torrent, so encryption isn&#8217;t really a counter measure. Interesting to know how they plan to tackle companies like Rapidshare, Megaupload, and many others though&#8230;</p>
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