General Debate 12 March 2009

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llew

How should the Retirement Commission be renamed?

The Waiting for God Commission? The Golden YEars Commission? (Real suggestions).

How about the Do Not Go Gentle Commission? Competition over here:

http://wellingtonista.com/the-waiting-for-god-commission
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March 12, 2009 9:07am
Ross Miller

In the legislation setting up the ‘Cullen’ Fund the Labour Government expressly provided for the suspension of contributions should the situation so warrant.

The acting leader of the Labour Party has panned National for signalling that they will be reducing contributions in this years budget given the world economic crisis.

Perhaps BillyB and/or Sonic might care to enlighten us just as to what the Labour Party saw as warranting the inclusion of this clause if it wasn’t a world economic crisis.

Judith Tizard getting back into Parliament perhaps …………
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March 12, 2009 9:18am
gazzmaniac

Or why don’t we pay for some significant infrastructure with the Cullen Fund? I recall there’s still about $10Billion (and falling)? in there so that’s 10 Transmission Gully sized projects to be getting on with. Then we could reduce the tax take and still have a significant infrastructure programme.
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March 12, 2009 9:26am
MyNameIsJack

so gazzmaniac, when you have spent all the $ on infrastructure, how do you propose funding Super? Toll roads?
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March 12, 2009 9:39am
Brian Smaller

MNIJ – not a bad idea that.
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March 12, 2009 9:41am
MyNameIsJack

The Next King of New Zealand again shows why we should ditch the monarchy (and kinighthoods), become a Republic and lop off his head.

The heir to the throne will travel to South America next month to raise awareness about the environment in a visit which will cost an estimated £300,000.

The Prince will use a luxury airliner to transport himself, the Duchess of Rothesay and a 14-strong entourage to Brazil, Chile and Ecuador on a 16,400-mile round trip.

http://news.scotsman.com/princeofwales/Charles-under-fire-for-private.4982010.jp

On top of this, he is also a dangerous, dodgy quack.

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Prince-Charles-is-39dangerous-.5058162.jp
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March 12, 2009 9:42am
MyNameIsJack

And the OCR is now down to 3%, so borrowing for infrastructure becomes an excellent proposition.
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March 12, 2009 9:44am
getstaffed

MNIJ – yes, it’s kinda hypocritical of Charlie to be talking environment while jetting all over the place. He should have a chat with Al Gore (that darling of the left) who sustained some flak for the same thing.
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March 12, 2009 9:47am
llew

Um… check out Rog’s bio… there’s something not quite kosher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Kerr
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March 12, 2009 9:50am
getstaffed

llew – more small minded wikipage vandalism. Someone can track the IP address I’m sure.
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March 12, 2009 10:02am
MyNameIsJack

Yeah, right back to an internet cafe.
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March 12, 2009 10:06am
petal

MyNameIsJack: “And the OCR is now down to 3%, so borrowing for infrastructure becomes an excellent proposition.”

Ask yourself: who do we borrow from when borrowing for infrastructure, and who sets the interest rate for the loan?

For extra credit: is NZ’s OCR relevant to the interest charged by the people lending money for infrastructure?
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March 12, 2009 10:15am
RightNow

Seems you can trace the IP to Auckland University of Technology at least
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March 12, 2009 10:33am
philu

gee..!..this all reminds me of the rightwing scumbag who made malicious alterations to john keys’ bio on wikipedia..

..just before the last election..

..and did them in my name..

..(that ip traced back to a high-level law-firm…

..who denied any knowledge..)

..whoar..!..eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/obama-wiki-fiddler-caught-red-handed/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 12, 2009 10:40am
llew

gee..!..this all reminds me of the rightwing scumbag who made malicious alterations to john keys’ bio on wikipedia..

It’s not malicious in this case, just the random addition of Switchblade Killingsworth.
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March 12, 2009 10:42am
Glutaemus Maximus

Yes Jack a Nory.

All lenders stick to OCR for their loans. It is called a cash rate because thew would eschew margin profit to just make your day.

Overheads are real in the Commercial World. Anyway Infrastructure projects increase CO2 emmisions. As do those nasty Iron Man Events etc.

We should ban all human activity to help save the planet. Who needs work and Industry anyway?
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March 12, 2009 10:49am
Glutaemus Maximus

Does Judith Tizard have a love interest. She looks so single.
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March 12, 2009 10:51am
philu

i’ve had a productive few hours/morning..

..stuck my head down..and beavered away..

..and when i lifted said head..

..there were 34 stories/links..

(..this (non-ideological) one will amuse a few of you..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/10-ways-to-get-fit-while-bloggingrss-raisesanyone/

phil(whoar.co.nz
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March 12, 2009 10:52am
Ross Miller

So our resident Labour apologists won’t respond to my 9.18. Wonder why?

Embarrassment perhaps

Phil really has to lift his game.
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March 12, 2009 11:02am
philu

what’s to argue ross..?

even laila harre thinks it is a no-brainer that we not borrow more money to lose in ‘the losing game’..

..(i was against the whole crap-shoot from day one..

..and shouldn’t we all have heeded the words of rod donald..?..eh..?

..he wanted us to invest this money in new zealand..

..not to be gambled away in this crap-shoot..

wow..!..imagine how much we could have done here..?

..in new zealand..?

..with all those billions we have borrowed .. to just piss-away down that black hole..?

(it gets me kinda grumpy .. thinking about that..)

..and..um..!..why do you carry on like a ‘sore loser’ all the time..?

ross..?

i mean..point scoring against goff..?

..make better use of your time..

..get a hobby..!

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 12, 2009 11:12am
philu

was that what you were wanting..?..ross..?

..should we stick a fork in you..?

..are you ‘done’..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 12, 2009 11:15am
Manolo

“Phil really has to lift his game.”

What do you mean? Whoar to improve the quality of his already dubious baking and cooking?
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March 12, 2009 11:20am
philu

some call him..’one-line manolo’..

some say he hasn’t got two brain cells to rub together..

others..that he drools as he speaks..

we know him as a particularly knuckle-dragging simian..

..called man-so-low…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 12, 2009 11:24am
Inventory2

Philip Ure said “some call him..’one-line manolo’..

some say he hasn’t got two brain cells to rub together..

others..that he drools as he speaks..

we know him as a particularly knuckle-dragging simian..

..called man-so-low…”

Sheesh Phil – that’s a bit rich, coming from you mate!
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March 12, 2009 12:26pm
greenfly

Will ‘Green John’s’ Reinga to Bluff bicycle track include stop-offs to view Gerry’s coal-fired power plants, strung like smoke-stacks along the length of the country? What a tourist attraction!
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March 12, 2009 12:45pm
philu

that’s it..?..

.. inventory/lawyer-man..?

..that’s the best riposte/comeback you could come up with..?

..after all those years of legal training..?

..why did you even bother trying..?

..ii’s not a good look..eh..?

(here..!..have a fork..!…)

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 12, 2009 12:51pm
philu

btw inventory/lawyer-man..done any wiki-editing recently..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 12, 2009 12:55pm
Razork

New Breaks and Infant Feeding Provisions
New Breaks and Infant Feeding provisions will become law on 1 April 2009.
This will require employers to provide employees with paid rest breaks and unpaid meal breaks. Employees will be entitled to:
• one paid 10-minute rest break if their work period is between two and four hours;
• one paid 10-minute rest break and one unpaid 30-minute meal break if their work period is between four and six hours;
• two paid 10-minute rest breaks and one unpaid 30-minute meal break if their work period is between six and eight hours.
Where employees work for periods longer than eight hours, these provisions automatically reapply for each succeeding work period.
The new legislation also requires employers to provide breaks and facilities for employees who want to breastfeed their babies or express milk in the workplace.
The Department of Labour is developing a Code of Employment Practice for employers on how to comply with their obligations regarding the infant feeding provisions of the Act.

Further information on Rest breaks and Infant Feeding is available on the Department’s website http://www.dol.govt.nz
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March 12, 2009 12:56pm
getstaffed

Razork – try asking the government how they will cover teachers downing their chalk and walking out of classroom full of kids in order to take their New Breaks.
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March 12, 2009 1:03pm
gazzmaniac

>so gazzmaniac, when you have spent all the $ on infrastructure, how do you propose funding Super? Toll roads?

I am sure that the economy will pick up at some stage in the next 20 years and we will be able to fund super. Or, lo and behold, people could fund their own retirement. Why should I pay for my parents’ generation to retire? They are the richest generation ever.

Borrowing for infrastructure is a great idea. Most people do this with their houses and cars. Borrowing for the expenses of running the government is not – it is like borrowing for cost of living and is unsustainable. If the right projects are undertaken and we stop buying train sets the tax take will increase and it would pay for itself.

We could also reduce taxes a lot and people might be able to start their own investments (imagine having no tax on the interest accrued in bank accounts – they would have a better return than inflation – heresy!) and make money rather than donating it to the most inefficient enterprise in the country.

There are hundreds of ways of people funding their retirement. I think that the government paying should be a last resort not the first stop.
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March 12, 2009 1:03pm
getstaffed

Scheeesh. Another thread that needs spraying with whoaricide
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March 12, 2009 1:06pm
senzafine

Joyce was making some comments on the Kapiti coast recently about needing to look at the northern corridor as a whole, instead of developing silo projects (like transmission gully) which simply shift the bottleneck. This may have already been covered already here, but i thought i’d point out anyway.

The New Zealand Transport Agency has been asked to have a look at the corridor up to Levin for improved highway structure. The safety statistics from Levin to Waikanae are horrible you have congested roads with traffic running straight at each other on New Zealand’s major highway. The whole road has issues on it, with choke points at Levin, Otaki, Waikanae and Paraparaumu, points on the way through and the Gully. You cannot look at it in isolation because what benefits you gain in one section you could easily lose further up.

About bloody time a politician looked at this issue with some bloody pragmatisim!!
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March 12, 2009 1:33pm
MyNameIsJack

gazzmaniac (15) Vote: 0 0 Says:

March 12th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

Borrowing for infrastructure is a great idea. Most people do this with their houses and cars.

Because Most people do something, does not make it right. Borrowing for a house may well pay off long run as it is an assett that can, and usually does, appreciate. Borrowing for a car is not sensible as it is an assett that depreciates over time, never able to recoup the capital cost. Leasing a car is a much better option.
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March 12, 2009 1:52pm
kiwipolemicist

There’s been another high school massacre, in Germany this time. What do you think is behind these murder-suicides? I’ve found a convincing explanation on a website that I follow.

(Caution: the explanation I’ve found and my post may seriously tick you off because they butcher a few of the common sacred cows)

http://christianclassicalliberalist.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/school-shooting-in-germany-what-causes-suicide-massacres/
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March 12, 2009 1:55pm
Jack5

Change of subject for a second if I may.

Posters who watched the Ross Kemp TV series recently in NZ about the Royal Anglian regiment in Afghanistan might be interested in the following link. The Telegraph (UK) reports Muslim extremists abused the soldiers parading in their English home town on their return, calling them murderers and rapists. There has been a hot reaction from British people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4974031/Calls-for-crackdown-on-parade-Muslim-extremists.html
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March 12, 2009 2:07pm
pdm

Petal (261) – there was a time in the past when the Government of the day would raise funds within New Zealand through issues of Stock targeted for specific purposes. With Grey Power representatives on news bulletins today expressing concern about the impact of falling interest rates on their members there is an opportunity to raise funds for infrastructure projects through this source again. Toll roads would provide for interest payments at say 1% above bank rates and repayment as the stock matures.
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March 12, 2009 2:14pm
llew

(Caution: the explanation I’ve found and my post may seriously tick you off because they butcher a few of the common sacred cows)

It says they do so because they were taught the theory of evolution in school…
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March 12, 2009 2:32pm
MyNameIsJack

kiwip – in a word – bullfuckingshit!
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March 12, 2009 2:44pm
Inventory2

Philip Ure said “that’s it..?..

.. inventory/lawyer-man..?

..that’s the best riposte/comeback you could come up with..?

..after all those years of legal training..?”

I’ve never claimed to be a “lawyer-man” Phil, and have never claimed to have had any legal training. You must have confused me with some other legal beagle!

AND Philip Ure said “btw inventory/lawyer-man..done any wiki-editing recently..?”

In a word, no. In fact, not recently, not a while ago, not ever. I wouldn’t even know where to start!
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March 12, 2009 3:28pm
gingercrush

Why is Labour constantly abusing points of order and wasting everyones time with their pathetic moans about points of order. Labour seems to be getting no traction on any of their questions in the house. And it is very clear that the ministers are outperforming them.
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March 12, 2009 3:32pm
MyNameIsJack

they haven’t wasted a moment of my time, so waht’s the big deal? get over it.
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March 12, 2009 4:00pm
MyNameIsJack

The Barbie Doll of US politics, Sarah “Post Turtle” Palin demonstrates her parenting skills.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10561342

What a pair, her and Betty Windsor.
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March 12, 2009 4:03pm
Jack5

MyNameisJack: Re your post at 4.03…. you’re a disgrace to the name “Jack”.

So you hate Sarah Palin and the Queen. So what?

You grow more angry as the day grows on. Try meditation, it may help.
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March 12, 2009 4:20pm
gazzmaniac

Because Most people do something, does not make it right. Borrowing for a house may well pay off long run as it is an assett that can, and usually does, appreciate. Borrowing for a car is not sensible as it is an assett that depreciates over time, never able to recoup the capital cost. Leasing a car is a much better option.

Well you could just buy an older car and not need a loan either.
I didn’t say that the government should do it because most people do it. I am referring to the fact that people do borrow money to make more money, or to fund projects or purchases that they could not otherwise afford. Maybe a car was a bad example. Put another way, a tradesman with little equity might borrow money to buy tools and a vehicle to put them in so that he can go about the business of making a living. Without doing that he might have to work in a menial job for several years to buy the tools he needs to get started. Borrowing for infrastructure is no different.
And I would challenge anyone to find somebody/some business to build a major road and have the government lease it back – such schemes must exist but I would like to find out where they have been successful. There is a major problem in Queensland at the moment around a share issue with one of the roads in Brisbane. The privately run motorway tunnel in Sydney has gone bust, despite all the roads in the central city being reconfigured to feed the toll road.
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March 12, 2009 5:41pm
slijmbal

The rule of thumb is borrow for things you need eg a house, the right type of infrastructure

For a business (appropriate) borrowing can be useful as its tax deductable and reduces capital funding requirements. Excessive debt is a bad thing

Borrowing for a car can be good sense if it is tax deductable (and the value of the car is tax deductable)

Governments should really only borrow for capital requirements.
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March 12, 2009 5:52pm
stephen

It says they do so because they were taught the theory of evolution in school…

*snort* The theory of evolution ran over my cat while it was drunk and reading the koran while driving its underage cousin ‘the big bang’ to the abortion clinic.
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March 12, 2009 7:52pm
Viking2

Thousands of foreigners splurge stimulus overseas

http://www.smh.com.au/national/thousands-of-foreigners-splurge-stimulus-overseas-20090311-8vcg.html

* Rick Feneley
* March 12, 2009
* Page 1 of 3
“Lottery” winner…Ms Tokley with her letter from Australia. Photo: Jason Oxenham/Fairfax NZ

BARBARA TOKLEY was grateful, if a little embarrassed, to receive $1400 from the Rudd Government as part of its stimulus package to bolster the Australian economy. The trouble is, she is not an Australian citizen, she has not lived here since 1969, and she has spent every cent stimulating the New Zealand economy.

A lovely trekking holiday on the South Island, thank you very much. “It was like winning the lottery,” she told the Herald. Ms Tokley, 69, a British-born resident of Auckland, is among thousands of non-Australians whose bank accounts in 21 other countries have swollen with Kevin Rudd’s stimulus funds.
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March 12, 2009 8:21pm
getstaffed

Just polished off a bottle of Clare Valley Grosset Gaia 1998. Absolutely scrummy. Recommended.
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March 12, 2009 8:35pm
joeAverage

A thought, in 4 weeks my westpak retirement fund(MY RETIREMENT) lost $14000 due to ING fucking up i feel a wee bit pissed of , now heres the joke or the knife in the back i keeped a close eye on our retirement fund but we went on holiday for a month, and they got me.If you close your account to stop the slow death of your funds this assie bank will take 10 working days to action and dispose of my portion of the dynamic and balanced section of my account, ie what its worth then what you get could be another $14000 LOSS which could go to where bankers call heven to bankers ( these kind bankers WILL give me what my fund is worth ,WHEN they sell my share) another $00000000 loss , so posters if i sound testy in my posts, i am testy, PS never look after your future IT is a fucken joke BE A DOLE BLUDGER, dont think of your family, or future BLUDGE, ps im not joking the shits hiting the fan i lost,$14000 in 4weeks in the WESTPAK RETIREMENT PLAN, ps check what your plan is worth still, it could be scary 🙁 worth fuck all,
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March 12, 2009 11:15pm