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Interesting articles on the GFC: plan to buy toxic debts is dumb and won’t work (as I said the other day, Obama’s Executive is the most heavily Wall-Street dominated ever. Wonder if that had anything to do with this plan??)
Am at present attending the World Potato Congress in Christchurch….. Some interesting speakers, thus far the most interesting was a fantastic presentation by Rod Orum..
It would have done the masses of the population to hear this talk, it cemented many thoughts I had and still have… She is going to be a long road until we see some good positive GDP figures, could well be wrong, but very much doubt it…..
Whafe! Don’t mention Rod Oram on this blog! Scares the living crap out of rightwingers! He does seem to like the cycleway idea, though that seems to have deteriorated from an ‘inspirationally iconinc plan’ into a hodge-podge of existing and unconnected bike trails.
Don’t worry greenfly, the Nano is about to go on sale in India. In seven years time New Zealand will be able to start importing “The world’s cheapest car” second hand from India. There won’t be much call for bicycles then.
OECD – from what I saw, the nano would best suit nanas – it’s tiny. I’d not get in one. They’d easily fit onto Key’s cycle track. You think anyway, that the Nano will oust the bicycle from India? Nono!
Nice try greenfly, but Gordon Campbell is frequently touted as an “authority” on such places as The Standard, which suggests which side of the divide Mr Campbell’s ideology might sit. Thanks, but no thanks. I’d ALMOST rather read Rod Oram – almost
Did anyone else see the TV gold just a few moments ago on Breakfast? In case you missed it, Paul Henry interviewed Stephanie Mills of Greenpeace, who, it has to be said, has a giant moustache. This fact was noticed by a few correspondents who made suggestions like “lady, wax is cheap, get some” and asked questions like “is it compulsory for female Greenpeace spokespeople to have a mo?” We only know they received this wave of correspondence because, despite violent urging not to by his co-host, Henry read the emails out. Pure gold. This could go global on YouTube or similar.
greenfly – After the current Global Correction a second hand Nano is about all a typical Kiwi is going to be able to afford. No more Holdens on New Zealand roads.
David Farrar – you’ve done ‘Armstrong on Key’ and ‘just about everyone else on Key’, how about ‘Gordon Campbell on Key’ or would that frighten the delicate flowers here? In the interest of fairness, how about covering Gordon Campbells insightful piece. Go on. We can take it.
[DPF: Is this Gordon, the former Green Party Press Secretary?]
If only our Land Transport guys would let me convert it to a single seater it would be just what I want ….:-)
Noticed a slip in the mpg it said “does 54 US miles to the gallon” surely they mean it does 54miles to the US Gallon”
I know the US gal is smaller than the imperial gallon but shorter miles in the US of A ?
I have a peppi little though quite old Mitzi as a loaner from the garage while my SUV is being repaired … GOD it’s HELL getting in and out of it … likely the Nario would be the same
I did see the interview with Stephanie Mills, for the life of me I could not tell you what she was talking about as I could not take my eyes off her moustache.
Inventory2 – this is a General Debate thread, no? Isn’t this the thread that DPF doesn’t dictate the content of? Don’t you enjoy the freedom to decide what to talk about? Scary, is it? As scary as reading (shudder) something outside of your safe zone? I challenge you to read the Gordon Campbell piece and comment here. (sorry if I’ve frightened you Inventory2, you seem a nice fellow).
I did see the interview with Stephanie Mills, for the life of me I could not tell you what she was talking
Of course you couldn’t bb, you’ve never grasped it, have you. Your fixation on bearded women is well known and documented. Did you run away from the circus as a child?
greenfly – correct, it is the General Debate thread – people are free to talk about whatever takes their fancy. You linked to Campbell’s piece at 7.48am – that’s fine – people will make their own choices as to whether they follow the link, just as they will about the link I posted earlier. But you don’t leave it there – you’re back at 8.45am telling DPF
“David Farrar – you’ve done ‘Armstrong on Key’ and ‘just about everyone else on Key’, how about ‘Gordon Campbell on Key’ or would that frighten the delicate flowers here? In the interest of fairness, how about covering Gordon Campbells insightful piece. Go on. We can take it.”
You’re like a dog with a bone, and it gets tiresome.
Thats the way greenfly, talk down to everyone and show your contempt for the intellectually inferior fools who dare to question the moral authority of socialists!
Have you considered that you might have an image problem because you all behave like this?
Of course not, any fool can plainly see your natural superiority. Just sneer harder, that will help.
I have to say – I don’t care what you politics are left or right, if you behave like greenfly does, I (and I expect most other people), will just click the red button and move on without reading or clicking the link.
greentroll links to Gordon Campbell, who in turn references the Stranded…the intellectual weight is just too much to bear…please can I have that 5 minutes of my life back?
More war crimes charges against rogue state Israel. Seems they’re not above using Palestinian children as human shields, but then, when your rabbi tells you your god wants you to drive the gentiles out of “his” land I guess anything goes.
It is about time this rogue nation was brought to heel, that regime change was instituted to allow Israel to live peacefully with its neighbours.
Reid, while you’re here, did you see my postings on yesterday’s General Debate thread, starting here? It’s a topic that you and I have discussed before:
I have been saying for a long time that the “Smart Car” and such ideas are excellent but they need to be made in China and India and sold for a fraction of the price. Look at how tecnhology has brought down the cost of electronics and power tools and so on; we can easily achieve massive reductions in fuel consumption and emissions once cheap new Smart cars and electric cars are available. Cheaper in fact, to give them to poor people than it is to subsidise public transport; better for the environment, and gives the poor people the freedom that public transport doesn’t.
The Tata Nano is not quite a “Smart Car”, not yet; but you wait.
Meanwhile, the world’s fastest-selling electric car by a long shot is already being made in India:
The genocidal mynameisjackboot is back with more retoric.
That rogue state was created at the same time in the same way by the same authority as half the ME are you calling for those states to be driven into the sea?
Any comment of Hamas waging war on fatah there adolph?
Of course not its all about hating Jews. You sqeual “anti-Zionism” isn;t racist all you like but you’re not fooling anyone. All killing is good to you if its just Jews. When you say drive Israel into the sea is ojk because you’re naming a country so its not racist you follow it up with shipping Jews – and ONLY Jews – to other countries.
You’re right out of the nazi playbook there jackboot. you have nothing to say that civilised people should be required to listen too. Go back to your unit 88 meeting.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Gordon Campbell, Scoop NZ; worthy companion of Trottersky and Minto and Hager and all the other lefty poisoners of civic discourse.
If you wish to criticise others, do yourself a favour and get the spelling of their names correct. then we can be sure we understand to whom you refer.
Otherwise you just confirm the impression that you are an illeducated git whose only talent is copy and paste.
You have to wonder about this state-owned enterprise that is issuing notes at 7.5 per cent but reserving them for clients of the broking firms involved in the book build (probably most brokers I agree, but still a favour for the boys).
This comes hot after it summarily stopped weekend post collection. You would have thought they would have at least kept central post offices in main centres and largish towns cleared on Sunday nights for citizens who wanted to get cheques in the mail for bills, etc. And if they resort to the argument everyone is using email and internet bank transfers, well why not just abolish NZ Post?
A year or two ago, the NZ Post chief executive was a leader (and perhaps NZ Post may have been a contributor) to the drive to change the national flag to a white fern on god-awful black, the colour of pirates through the centuries, of Al Qaeda, of Pol Pot’s butchers, of the Nazis’ SS and of some similar scum like the SS helpers in Hungary. It’s the All Blacks’ colour, of course, but regardless of what we NZers think, the national rugby players don’t have sufficient renown to outweigh the connotations of the baddies who wore or still wear black.
Less than five miles from Ground Zero sits an International hotbed, the United “Abominations” as it were. Created to prevent wars and promote peace, it failed to address the most dangerous threats facing the world.
In a mire of hypocrisy, bribes, kickbacks, and corruption, the UN enables terrorism, and ignores sex crimes by its peacekeepers. The UN is where our so-called allies undermine us, and we pay 22% of their tab to host our enemies here at home.
Ambassadors from dirt-poor countries enjoy luxurious, tax-free Manhattan lifestyles, turning children into prostitutes and enjoy Diplomatic immunity. It’s a complete and utter disgrace, a blot on the face of humanity, and they get away with it.
when your rabbi tells you your god wants you to drive the gentiles out of “his” land I guess anything goes.
MyNameIsJack (379) Vote: 0 1 Says:
March 25th, 2009 at 10:11 am
If you wish to criticise others, do yourself a favour and get the spelling of their names correct. then we can be sure we understand to whom you refer.
From The Mirriam-Webster Dictionary :-
Gentile -a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith ; especially : a Christian as distinguished from a Jew
Don’t worry about that no-brainer Murray. After reading his response to Whale Oil’s post on “Jihad Unspun” I was figuring the self-confessed Atheist was off to join the Taliban or Hamas. Then they might behead him too for being a Westerner…
Inventory2 – You’re like a dog with a bone, and it gets tiresome
This morning already I’ve talked about: the Nano, Rod Oram, Gorden Campbell, Stephanie Mills and David Farrar’s penchant for choosing his pieces to suit his delicate audience. Dog with a bone?
What did you think of the points Campbell made?
Whafe said “Am at present attending the World Potato Congress in Christchurch….. Some interesting speakers, thus far the most interesting was a fantastic presentation by Rod Orum..”
Does that make you a spec-tater and Rod a common-tater?
If ever there was an advertisement for how useless the EMPU is, it would be the proposed strike by their flight attendants. Having failed to secure a contract that was on par with other Air New Zealand FA’s they are now resorting to strike action to achieve an unwinnable victory. Of course they will try and pin this on the National government when it’s actually due to their own ineptitude.
If they hadn’t tried to steal workers from other unions (for which they have plenty of previous), they wouldn’t be in the position of holding the travelling public to ransom over the Easter holiday. And all this from a man who aspires to lead the Labour party to victory at the next election.
Settle down Greenflight. I read your link and found this
“Judith Collins just makes me think of Alice in Wonderland, and the mad Queen of Hearts. Remember her ? “The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. ”Off with his head !’ she said, without looking around.”
Thats funny but why do you pick on Collins there are worse.
Why not – reprinting all maps and repainting roadsigns seems like a worthwhile use of taxpayers resources with the addtional benefit of restoring the spelling usage of Maori in the early 1800s.
And considering that, by their own admission, Maori only arrived here in the 14th century AD, that would in fact make their ‘occupation ‘ (oops, sorry, naughty Pakeha word. . ) a mere 600 years – but hey, why let truth get in the way of a perfectly good treaty claim.
Perhaps it was the spirits of the people that were here BEFORE Maori arrived (yes, Maori AREN’T the tanagatafenuwa – surprised?), the indigenous ones that they enslaved and ate, that give them the right to the ‘thousand-years’ claim?
But hey, I’m only a fourth-generation Kiwi ‘Anglo’ – what do I know?
(Now, if only I could persuade the ‘treaty industry’ that MY ancestors have been here forever – the problem is that, unlike some, I simply CAN’T tell a lie convincingly – oh well. . . )
You have to have
documentary evidence that you can
use in court, and there no longer is
any such evidence available on
anyone still alive, in France at least
So F&P Appliances becomes the first company to sign up to the 9 day fortnight and with the support of EPMU. So the Labour Party president embracing this recession solution and his Party Leaders slating it – a bit of conflict there i see !! And there are more companies like Air NZ interested in it. When will Labour realise they are out of touch?
heh sorry, thought i remembered seeing your english not being super-perfect so i interpreted it that way for some reason. In any case I think he’s got it. Wonder if DPF knows…
Hello Trevor Mallard are you still reading this blog?
Cause I am still waiting to hear your answer to your outrageous claim that employees should not work for employers who have less than 20 staff, because they will be fired after 90 days regardless of their work rate, ethic etc.
C’mon mallard you big blouse I have been away spending money hand over fist on holiday in the SI for 2 weeks, so may have missed your reply to my previous challenge. Happy to spread my dough around other business folk, may have saved an employee, leading up to 90 days, who knows.
I know that all my employees are safe in their jobs.
So come on you big bully shit, explain yourself, I know you will read this.
Oh thats right you will be busy in opposition won’t you?
Perhaps you can explain what it is you do again.
Can you believe this? Carbon Dioxide endangers public health. You won’t read about this in the mainstream media – of course.
Whatever science is settled it has nothing to do with the sciences I know about. (Watch out for the use of science in the singular – it refers to a strange new ideology. The Plural is correct as in “the sciences are unsettled.”
“AN “HISTORIC” DAY
According to the Washington Post, the Environmental Protection Agency will propose that greenhouse gases, including CO2, a gas necessary to sustaining life on Earth, endanger public health and welfare. This is a move that, according to the Post, “could have far-reaching implications for the nation’s economy and environment.” Predictably, environmental groups, which have been agitating for this outcome for years, were gushing with delight over this latest action by EPA. “This is historic news,” said Clean Air Watch’s Frank O’Donnell. “It will set the stage for the first-ever national limits on global warming pollution.” David Bookbinder, an attorney with the Sierra Club, was equally effusive: “They’re making all the right decisions.”
FACT: EPA’s finding is indeed historic news, for the simple fact that it will enlarge EPA’s regulatory reach to an unprecedented degree, extending it into every corner of the US economy, causing enormous economic damage. According to Peter Glaser, a national legal expert on the Clean Air Act, an endangerment finding will lead to new EPA regulations covering virtually everything, including “office buildings, apartment buildings, warehouse and storage buildings, educational buildings, health care buildings such as hospitals and assisted living facilities, hotels, restaurants, religious worship buildings, public assembly buildings, supermarkets, retail malls, agricultural facilities…and many others.” An array of new development projects could be delayed, perhaps for several years, causing “an economic train wreck.” This conclusion was supported recently by the Heritage Foundation’s Center for Data Analysis, which found that EPA’s new carbon regulations would destroy over 800,000 jobs and result in a cumulative GDP loss of $7 trillion by 2029.”
————————————————————
# getstaffed Says: “Jacob goes for -ve karma record. Pop over and join the fun!”
Steve & Getstaffed:
Nothing special to see there! Any comments from lefties that are unpopular enough to be worthwhile typically get about a dozen negatives, or up to about two dozen if they are in the more highly-read first 5 or 6 comments on the thread.
But when DPF gives his flock the signal, via a [DPF: response] or demerits, that the comment is not acceptable to right-wing thought, then watch the -ve count to go sky-high as the faithful clamber over themselves to prove (to themselves?) that they are good little kiwiblog righties too; in a veritable feeding frenzy of brownnosing and/or self-validation. it’s quite pathetic to behold really
(He had 94 -ve @6:11pm though… beats my best efforts to date!)
Excuse me ratbiter I have just been threatened to be “smacked out” by a twisted right wing nutbar in an email sent this afternnon. Don’t bleat on about poor treatment of the lefty types on this blog. Make my day big blouse.
It seems that Detective Senior Sergeant Dave Pannini has now succeeded in sending a message to the community. Just one tiny problem though – wrong message. The message he seemed to want was that law abiding citizens shouldn’t be permitted to run around defending themselves against armed robbers who stab victims in the course of committing crimes.
At the time, his grandstanding comments suggested he was more concerned at the prospect of vigilante responses to burgeoning violent crime. In his own (stupid) words “it was important to send a message”.
The concern is understandable given that from a public policy perspective, it mightn’t be desirable to have hordes of hockey players roaming the streets dispensing justice or even self-defence. But his immediate priority was dealing with the incident properly ie arrive at a view regarding prosecution of Mr Singh. Given that his “case”, with all its attendant hooplah/flashing cameras/media extravaganza got the arse at depositions, the very first hurdle ( a hurdle that typically seems more of a formality for the coppers) you can’t help but help but wonder about his motivation.
Instead, the message that he has sent is that the Police are prepared to prosecute victims of crime in order to achieve a public policy objective in preference to enforcing the Crimes Act. In doing that, he seems to have relied on “evidence” of assailants who took a knife to the scene, used it, and by their own admissions, were too pissed to recall what happened. He’s made himself look like a plonker and even if he is a plonker, its not a huge plus that he’s perceived as such. He simply drags down those of his colleagues that don’t indulge in these antics. Someone should tell him this ain’t Boston Legal or LA Law.
There is a disturbing propensity on the part of Police (the Veitch business is another recent example) to indulge in this grandstanding activity with embarrassing results. Maybe they should leave off on the spin and focus on getting on with the job. In the wake of a number of other well publicised sticky moments that Mr Plod has suffered in recent months, you have to wonder where the leadership is. Irrespective of Bain’s guilt or innocence, the Police evidence in the re-trial is producing more embarrassment.
In any commercial organisation, there would have been action from the top long ago. There is a point at which you no can longer shuffle the blame “downhill”, or crap on about revising procedures, “internal reviews”, counseling, responsibility of senior management (ie “it wasn’t me”) … blah blah blah …. There is a point at which you have to stop relying on pulling levers, climb down out of the crane, and go kick arse and sort the problem out. Instead, like Corrections, the Police muddle from one disaster to another. Commissioner Broad looks more and more like Captain Pugwash.
My word big blouse is really worked up.My email box is fill of hate and silly threats.I just gave myself a thumb down BB saving you the job. What a laugh.
Ratbiter I often agree with statements by those left of the political spectrum as any reasonable person knows an overly ideological approach is invariably wrong and many issues should not be dominated by capitalism vs socialism arguments – they are often intrusions into an issue that should be nothing to do with politics and more to do with morals or lie in the common middle ground but ……..
JvH (and greenfly) are trolls – they are dedicated and committed trolls – they insult, distract, change subject, present ludicrous arguments and generally get on everyone’s tits. It’s deliberate. I’m suprised they don’t get banned. The tiny bit of my mind that believes in conspiracy theories reckons someone pays them to do it as they spend so much of their time doing it.
This is not about disagreeing with a prevailing view (which I did on the standard by the way and got repeatedly smacked down by the moderators – gave up as it wasn’t a discussion – I expect other posters to do it but not the moderators) – it’s about repeated behaviour that creates its own reaction .. but you can believe otherwise if it makes you feel better
On the +vs side I reckon you tend to debate the articles more and as such I respect you for it – even if I disagree
As this system will again not let me comment on the post I long in off I will make my point here
Refer President (Sir) Wira Gardiner
What a wonderful gesture no only has Wira Gardiner given two wives to the party as MPs but now is prepared to step in personally and take a senoir role as well.
There was a comment about MPs spouse being the President. I agree but my agreement has no reflection upon the Wira or his wife.
I think that the parliamentary wing of the party at times has had to greater say in the running of the party and this has been to the detriment- of the party.
I believe that there should be a greater separation at times.
If it were not for the Party the Politician would not be were they are but also at times the Party would not be where it was if it were not for the Politicians it is a fine line to walk and at times there needs to be some control exercised by the Party as a whole. To have the President in personal relationship with one of the MPs could make this a very difficult tight rope to walk.
slijmbal – careful! if insulting, changing the subject and presenting ludicrous arguments are signs of trollhood, then I dare say Kiwiblog is beset by just as many right-wing trolls as left-wing ones…
Steve & Getstaffed:
Nothing special to see there! Any comments from lefties that are unpopular enough to be worthwhile typically get about a dozen negatives, or up to about two dozen if they are in the more highly-read first 5 or 6 comments on the thread.
Ratbiter – When someone (of whatever political inclination) consistently says things as stupid, vile and nasty as JVH then -ve karma will flow. And so it should. Yes some of this might be unthinking, and a “I’m happy today” post from you might attract -ve karma which just proves that some people have had objectivity bypasses. That’s life. However my belief is that most commenter’s here are balanced in their karma giving. Hell, even I (an uber-right wing free market zealot) have karma’ed you up a few times
Apologies for not getting back to you earlier than this, however I have been busy all day in Tauranga.
While I think you are a raving lunatic I can assure you that I have not sent you any emails at all, I suspect it may well be somebody taking the piss out of you (not hard to do really)
It is not my style to send threatening emails to anybody and most certainly not you, for a start it would not be worth the effort.
I will not ask for an apology from you because I simply do not care enough about the issue, my only reason for responding to you was to set the record straight, you can take it from me D4J that I just do not have enough spare heartbeats to waste sending people like you private emails.
“After the current Global Correction a second hand Nano is about all a typical Kiwi is going to be able to afford. No more Holdens on New Zealand roads.”
Rodentchomper – to some extent I agree – but overall I think you’re talking nonsense – let me explain.
D4J is practically a single theme poster, for instance – many of his posts relate back to his personal experiences. However, I notice he often receives high -ve karma as do several other posters who would be seen as right wing for similar types of selfish behaviour – so this isn’t the single theme, all row in the same direction blog I believe you imply by your post.
Several posters start with personal abuse and insults for JvH and greenfly as a matter of course but from personal experience I can also state that I’ve been trolled by both – I did not provoke it – it happened. I decided to be aggressive in my response and was on the front foot in my dealings with these guys once it happened a couple of times – I now have no time for either of those two particular posters – they rarely answer your questions or enter in to discussion on the issues. So now, I just don’t bother with these guys – I’m surprised so many rise to their bait as they so infrequently make a point – they spend the majority of their time insulting and taunting.
I also agree that there are posters here who also barely discuss the issues – but it is interesting that most of the high volume left winger posters here are trolls – that is a message.
There are lot of posts in the form that clark is a devil from hell and pass the holy water (remarkably accurate ) – but left wing blogs are pretty much the same – this is not trolling.
So no, your implication that JvH and greenfly are no worse than equivalents here on Kiwiblog is flawed. They are professional trolls.
Look, at the risk of seeming like I give a shit (which I can assure you I do not) I am going to say this on the matter and that is it as far as I am concerned.
Between the hours of 9.30am and approximately 4.30pm I was either in meetings or driving, so I can assure you that I did not send any emails.
Now if that is not good enough for you then tough fucking luck.
slilmbal – I hardly know what to say, I’m….well frankly, I’m flattered. No amateur me, I’m a pro! You’ve been ‘trolled’ by me? Don’t give yourself airs. I can smell flakey thinking from kilometres away!
Reid, while you’re here, did you see my postings on yesterday’s General Debate thread, starting here? It’s a topic that you and I have discussed before:
Please scroll down and follow the other comments, especially the link to the “Rolling Stone” article on the crash.
Phil, thanks for drawing that to my attention. A fantastic article from Rolling Stone. I did note your posts yesterday but wasn’t pursuing the GFC topic too closely last night and missed it first time round. Thanks again for your persistence.
That article is one more piece in the jigsaw and as you suggested, it is exactly in line with what I was suggesting the other day.
This whole episode we’re currently in the middle of, stinks like hell, doesn’t it.
Patrick Starr said: Jacob Van Hartog – 108 negative karma @ 10.pm
that even beats your record as the most unpopular kiwiblogger grenefly
Shit, what am I doing wrong? Can’t ever remember getting below -20.
Yesterday I got a -13, but compensated for by a +12.
Tends to be only when I stray into industrial relations issues I get seriously bad karma. What is it about you guys that makes you so want to deny hardworking New Zealand workers getting a fair suck on the sav?
Hey bruv, this is a General Debate thread. You can’t troll (or threadjack, for that matter) in General Debate. Anything goes.
Anyway, I thought your opinion of d4j’s contributions here was somewhat similar to mine. At least you will debate rationally with me (well, most of the time) even though we disagree on most political issues. But d4j’s just a dickhead who hurls abuse at anyone who doesn’t adhere to his narrow and bigoted view of how the world should be.
Tends to be only when I stray into industrial relations issues I get seriously bad karma. What is it about you guys that makes you so want to deny hardworking New Zealand workers getting a fair suck on the sav?
Why do you think we don’t, toad?
Fact is, if someone doesn’t grow up in a family that values education, self-discipline and have all the other life experiences that eventually in adulthood differentiate middle-aged $30,000 factory/process workers from the money you and I earn when we’re middle-aged, then why is it solely the employer’s responsibility to redress that balance?
I’m not saying you necessarily say that or even believe it, but in general terms, that appears to be the lefty position.
I often wonder why lefties don’t spend more time and energy advocating for those values in their constituents instead of what they do do, which is advocate the politics of envy and selfishness. We’ve just had nine long years of a perfect lefty environment where that should have been eminently possible and yet not once did we ever hear of any program that advocated that the key to success in life is self-discipline and loving your family as you love yourself and valuing education.
If we ever heard something along those lines from the lefties then I’d start to think that maybe they’re starting to get it. Unfortunately that hasn’t happened yet.
Tell me, why does the guy who cleans the shithouse get paid so much less than the guy who audits the accounts.
You would say it is qualifications. But if everyone were qualified to audit the accounts, someone still needs to clean the shithouse. And it is a nasty job that no-one really wants to do, so perhaps it deserves higher pay on that basis. But it doesn’t get it.
So what if everyone gets the qualifications necessary to audit the accounts, and no-one will demean themselves to clean the shithouse.
Well, then we’re all up to our ankles in the brown smelly stuff, aren’t we?
toad the difference is everyone can clean the shithouse – only some people know how to audit accounts – economics 101 – supply and demand – but you knew that because not everyone is capable of getting the qualifications required. Poor argument. So not an interesting discussion.
Ratbiter – are you asking the flying phleghm to prove my point or am I just lucky that way?
Toad, I vaguely recall from my economics something called the diamond-water paradox.
Water is so much more valuable to life yet diamonds are considered more valuable monetarily. It’s an illustration of supply and demand. That’s why manual labour, while vital, is valued less. Taking it away from capitalism into say the military, you see the same thing in the military with the Officer Corp vs the Enlisted Ranks. The Officers are presumed to have skills not possessed by other ranks and those are the skills that are presumed will win the day. Naturally, people are people and it doesn’t always work but generally when things come together, it happens that way. This is why the shithouse cleaner is paid less, we can always find another. But can you find another CEO, or General?
The point you raise however is well taken. I abhor the way the ratio of lowest paid to highest paid in any organisation has gotten out of whack since the 80′s. It used to be that the CEO was paid about 16 times the amount of the lowest paid and that ratio was preserved for many years.
Outstanding capitalists like Warren Buffet have preserved this and as you may know he takes only $100,000 per year from Berkshire Hathaway. I wish that more people would follow his lead.
Avarice is extremely unhealthy, it leads to personal deprivation and ill will toward others. It’s entirely unnecessary in that the capitalist system could function effectively without it. Unfortunately its prevalence today is a marker in the state of our society.
However, avarice exists both in wealthy and in poor people. It’s a state of mind based on fear of wont and envy with the ultimate cause being either a surfeit or a lack of ego. The real question is, how do we eliminate this state of mind in people from all walks of life?
Toad I’m sorry I need to retire now, big day tomorrow. However would love to continue discussing, tomorrow evening.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:13 am
Who else is looking forward to New Zealand’s Fourth Quarter 2008 GDP figures?
How low can New Zealand go?
March 25th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Interesting articles on the GFC: plan to buy toxic debts is dumb and won’t work (as I said the other day, Obama’s Executive is the most heavily Wall-Street dominated ever. Wonder if that had anything to do with this plan??)
Secondly, interesting background to the math formula that started it all…
March 25th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Which hat is Andrew Little wearing over this one?
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/03/back-to-bad-old-days.html
March 25th, 2009 at 7:08 am
Am at present attending the World Potato Congress in Christchurch….. Some interesting speakers, thus far the most interesting was a fantastic presentation by Rod Orum..
It would have done the masses of the population to hear this talk, it cemented many thoughts I had and still have… She is going to be a long road until we see some good positive GDP figures, could well be wrong, but very much doubt it…..
Go the Spud………
March 25th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Whafe! Don’t mention Rod Oram on this blog! Scares the living crap out of rightwingers! He does seem to like the cycleway idea, though that seems to have deteriorated from an ‘inspirationally iconinc plan’ into a hodge-podge of existing and unconnected bike trails.
March 25th, 2009 at 7:35 am
Don’t worry greenfly, the Nano is about to go on sale in India. In seven years time New Zealand will be able to start importing “The world’s cheapest car” second hand from India. There won’t be much call for bicycles then.
March 25th, 2009 at 7:41 am
OECD – from what I saw, the nano would best suit nanas – it’s tiny. I’d not get in one. They’d easily fit onto Key’s cycle track. You think anyway, that the Nano will oust the bicycle from India? Nono!
March 25th, 2009 at 7:48 am
As the emptiness of the government’s plans to cope with the global recession become obvious…
Holy crap! Read this heads-up!
March 25th, 2009 at 8:02 am
Nice try greenfly, but Gordon Campbell is frequently touted as an “authority” on such places as The Standard, which suggests which side of the divide Mr Campbell’s ideology might sit. Thanks, but no thanks. I’d ALMOST rather read Rod Oram – almost
March 25th, 2009 at 8:09 am
Did anyone else see the TV gold just a few moments ago on Breakfast? In case you missed it, Paul Henry interviewed Stephanie Mills of Greenpeace, who, it has to be said, has a giant moustache. This fact was noticed by a few correspondents who made suggestions like “lady, wax is cheap, get some” and asked questions like “is it compulsory for female Greenpeace spokespeople to have a mo?” We only know they received this wave of correspondence because, despite violent urging not to by his co-host, Henry read the emails out. Pure gold. This could go global on YouTube or similar.
March 25th, 2009 at 8:13 am
greenfly – After the current Global Correction a second hand Nano is about all a typical Kiwi is going to be able to afford. No more Holdens on New Zealand roads.
March 25th, 2009 at 8:26 am
“How low can New Zealand go?”
We let labour run the country for nine years and had those ultra left ludite loonies the “greens” hold them to ransom for the last three.
March 25th, 2009 at 8:45 am
David Farrar – you’ve done ‘Armstrong on Key’ and ‘just about everyone else on Key’, how about ‘Gordon Campbell on Key’ or would that frighten the delicate flowers here? In the interest of fairness, how about covering Gordon Campbells insightful piece. Go on. We can take it.
[DPF: Is this Gordon, the former Green Party Press Secretary?]
March 25th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Inventory2 – be a big brave boy, go on and read something outside of your favourite soothing sycophants. You can do it, there’s a boy!
March 25th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Whats more sycophantic than being a professional troll for a party was pink slipped in the last election?
March 25th, 2009 at 8:52 am
If only our Land Transport guys would let me convert it to a single seater it would be just what I want ….:-)
Noticed a slip in the mpg it said “does 54 US miles to the gallon” surely they mean it does 54miles to the US Gallon”
I know the US gal is smaller than the imperial gallon but shorter miles in the US of A ?
March 25th, 2009 at 8:57 am
I have a peppi little though quite old Mitzi as a loaner from the garage while my SUV is being repaired … GOD it’s HELL getting in and out of it … likely the Nario would be the same
March 25th, 2009 at 9:07 am
greenfly – start your own flippin’ blog if you want to choose the content. This is DPF’s whare, and he decides what channel the TV’s on!
March 25th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Wycroft
I did see the interview with Stephanie Mills, for the life of me I could not tell you what she was talking about as I could not take my eyes off her moustache.
It was simply magnificent!
March 25th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Inventory2 – this is a General Debate thread, no? Isn’t this the thread that DPF doesn’t dictate the content of? Don’t you enjoy the freedom to decide what to talk about? Scary, is it? As scary as reading (shudder) something outside of your safe zone? I challenge you to read the Gordon Campbell piece and comment here. (sorry if I’ve frightened you Inventory2, you seem a nice fellow).
March 25th, 2009 at 9:34 am
My goodness the party mouthpiece is doing a lot of projecting today.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:41 am
big bro said:
Of course you couldn’t bb, you’ve never grasped it, have you. Your fixation on bearded women is well known and documented. Did you run away from the circus as a child?
March 25th, 2009 at 9:47 am
greenfly – correct, it is the General Debate thread – people are free to talk about whatever takes their fancy. You linked to Campbell’s piece at 7.48am – that’s fine – people will make their own choices as to whether they follow the link, just as they will about the link I posted earlier. But you don’t leave it there – you’re back at 8.45am telling DPF
“David Farrar – you’ve done ‘Armstrong on Key’ and ‘just about everyone else on Key’, how about ‘Gordon Campbell on Key’ or would that frighten the delicate flowers here? In the interest of fairness, how about covering Gordon Campbells insightful piece. Go on. We can take it.”
You’re like a dog with a bone, and it gets tiresome.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Thats the way greenfly, talk down to everyone and show your contempt for the intellectually inferior fools who dare to question the moral authority of socialists!
Have you considered that you might have an image problem because you all behave like this?
Of course not, any fool can plainly see your natural superiority. Just sneer harder, that will help.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:50 am
I have to say – I don’t care what you politics are left or right, if you behave like greenfly does, I (and I expect most other people), will just click the red button and move on without reading or clicking the link.
What a waste of good internet space you are.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:52 am
greentroll links to Gordon Campbell, who in turn references the Stranded…the intellectual weight is just too much to bear…please can I have that 5 minutes of my life back?
March 25th, 2009 at 9:53 am
More war crimes charges against rogue state Israel. Seems they’re not above using Palestinian children as human shields, but then, when your rabbi tells you your god wants you to drive the gentiles out of “his” land I guess anything goes.
It is about time this rogue nation was brought to heel, that regime change was instituted to allow Israel to live peacefully with its neighbours.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/war-crimes-charges-mount-against-israel-20090324-98vl.html
March 25th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Reid, while you’re here, did you see my postings on yesterday’s General Debate thread, starting here? It’s a topic that you and I have discussed before:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/03/general_debate_24_march_2009.html#comment-546003
Please scroll down and follow the other comments, especially the link to the “Rolling Stone” article on the crash.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Gordon Campbell, Scoop NZ; worthy companion of Trottersky and Minto and Hager and all the other lefty poisoners of civic discourse.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Stephanie Mills of Greenpeace, yeah. I heard they were going to interview her on Closeup, but Sainsbury didnt want the competition
March 25th, 2009 at 10:07 am
I have been saying for a long time that the “Smart Car” and such ideas are excellent but they need to be made in China and India and sold for a fraction of the price. Look at how tecnhology has brought down the cost of electronics and power tools and so on; we can easily achieve massive reductions in fuel consumption and emissions once cheap new Smart cars and electric cars are available. Cheaper in fact, to give them to poor people than it is to subsidise public transport; better for the environment, and gives the poor people the freedom that public transport doesn’t.
The Tata Nano is not quite a “Smart Car”, not yet; but you wait.
Meanwhile, the world’s fastest-selling electric car by a long shot is already being made in India:
http://www.ecosalon.com/the_reva_g_wiz_and_about_time_too/
March 25th, 2009 at 10:10 am
The genocidal mynameisjackboot is back with more retoric.
That rogue state was created at the same time in the same way by the same authority as half the ME are you calling for those states to be driven into the sea?
Any comment of Hamas waging war on fatah there adolph?
Of course not its all about hating Jews. You sqeual “anti-Zionism” isn;t racist all you like but you’re not fooling anyone. All killing is good to you if its just Jews. When you say drive Israel into the sea is ojk because you’re naming a country so its not racist you follow it up with shipping Jews – and ONLY Jews – to other countries.
You’re right out of the nazi playbook there jackboot. you have nothing to say that civilised people should be required to listen too. Go back to your unit 88 meeting.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:11 am
PhilBest (4778) Vote: 1 1 Says:
March 25th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Gordon Campbell, Scoop NZ; worthy companion of Trottersky and Minto and Hager and all the other lefty poisoners of civic discourse.
If you wish to criticise others, do yourself a favour and get the spelling of their names correct. then we can be sure we understand to whom you refer.
Otherwise you just confirm the impression that you are an illeducated git whose only talent is copy and paste.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:15 am
jesusonarollerskate muzza, sounds like that metal you’ve been hitting has been done with your head.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Sounds like you let slip your anti-Semitism actually.
We’ve dealt with your kind once before and we’ll do it again. Thats what never again means.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:19 am
So.. Helens got the UN job.. She should fit right in.. You will never find a more wreched hive of Scum and Villainy
March 25th, 2009 at 10:19 am
New topic if I may …
What do Kiwiblog posters think of NZ Post?
You have to wonder about this state-owned enterprise that is issuing notes at 7.5 per cent but reserving them for clients of the broking firms involved in the book build (probably most brokers I agree, but still a favour for the boys).
This comes hot after it summarily stopped weekend post collection. You would have thought they would have at least kept central post offices in main centres and largish towns cleared on Sunday nights for citizens who wanted to get cheques in the mail for bills, etc. And if they resort to the argument everyone is using email and internet bank transfers, well why not just abolish NZ Post?
A year or two ago, the NZ Post chief executive was a leader (and perhaps NZ Post may have been a contributor) to the drive to change the national flag to a white fern on god-awful black, the colour of pirates through the centuries, of Al Qaeda, of Pol Pot’s butchers, of the Nazis’ SS and of some similar scum like the SS helpers in Hungary. It’s the All Blacks’ colour, of course, but regardless of what we NZers think, the national rugby players don’t have sufficient renown to outweigh the connotations of the baddies who wore or still wear black.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Here’s Megadeths take on the UN:
Less than five miles from Ground Zero sits an International hotbed, the United “Abominations” as it were. Created to prevent wars and promote peace, it failed to address the most dangerous threats facing the world.
In a mire of hypocrisy, bribes, kickbacks, and corruption, the UN enables terrorism, and ignores sex crimes by its peacekeepers. The UN is where our so-called allies undermine us, and we pay 22% of their tab to host our enemies here at home.
Ambassadors from dirt-poor countries enjoy luxurious, tax-free Manhattan lifestyles, turning children into prostitutes and enjoy Diplomatic immunity. It’s a complete and utter disgrace, a blot on the face of humanity, and they get away with it.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:29 am
That link was fantastic Reid. Thanks for that. Very interesting how this all started.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
That link was fantastic Reid. Thanks for that. Very interesting how this all started.
You must have missed this
March 25th, 2009 at 10:51 am
MyNameIsJack (379) Vote: 0 9 Says:
March 25th, 2009 at 9:53 am
when your rabbi tells you your god wants you to drive the gentiles out of “his” land I guess anything goes.
MyNameIsJack (379) Vote: 0 1 Says:
March 25th, 2009 at 10:11 am
If you wish to criticise others, do yourself a favour and get the spelling of their names correct. then we can be sure we understand to whom you refer.
From The Mirriam-Webster Dictionary :-
Gentile -a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith ; especially : a Christian as distinguished from a Jew
March 25th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Don’t worry about that no-brainer Murray. After reading his response to Whale Oil’s post on “Jihad Unspun” I was figuring the self-confessed Atheist was off to join the Taliban or Hamas. Then they might behead him too for being a Westerner…
He could rename himself MyNameIsJihadJack
March 25th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Inventory2 – You’re like a dog with a bone, and it gets tiresome
This morning already I’ve talked about: the Nano, Rod Oram, Gorden Campbell, Stephanie Mills and David Farrar’s penchant for choosing his pieces to suit his delicate audience. Dog with a bone?
What did you think of the points Campbell made?
March 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Whafe said “Am at present attending the World Potato Congress in Christchurch….. Some interesting speakers, thus far the most interesting was a fantastic presentation by Rod Orum..”
Does that make you a spec-tater and Rod a common-tater?
March 25th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Good Roflcopter
Was Jim Bolger there?
March 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am
If ever there was an advertisement for how useless the EMPU is, it would be the proposed strike by their flight attendants. Having failed to secure a contract that was on par with other Air New Zealand FA’s they are now resorting to strike action to achieve an unwinnable victory. Of course they will try and pin this on the National government when it’s actually due to their own ineptitude.
If they hadn’t tried to steal workers from other unions (for which they have plenty of previous), they wouldn’t be in the position of holding the travelling public to ransom over the Easter holiday. And all this from a man who aspires to lead the Labour party to victory at the next election.
March 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Settle down Greenflight. I read your link and found this
“Judith Collins just makes me think of Alice in Wonderland, and the mad Queen of Hearts. Remember her ? “The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. ”Off with his head !’ she said, without looking around.”
Thats funny but why do you pick on Collins there are worse.
March 25th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Roflcopter said “Does that make you a spec-tater and Rod a common-tater?”
Would that make greenfly, who wants everyone to dance to her tune, a dick-tator?
March 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
W(h)anganui?
Why not – reprinting all maps and repainting roadsigns seems like a worthwhile use of taxpayers resources with the addtional benefit of restoring the spelling usage of Maori in the early 1800s.
March 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Thats not fair andrei, one of the pro H mob assured us that it had been spelt with an h for a thousand years.
Not quite sure how they managed that with someone elses alphabet but thats a meer technicality.
March 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Jacob goes for -ve karma record. Pop over and join the fun!
March 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
And considering that, by their own admission, Maori only arrived here in the 14th century AD, that would in fact make their ‘occupation ‘ (oops, sorry, naughty Pakeha word. . ) a mere 600 years – but hey, why let truth get in the way of a perfectly good treaty claim.
Perhaps it was the spirits of the people that were here BEFORE Maori arrived (yes, Maori AREN’T the tanagatafenuwa – surprised?), the indigenous ones that they enslaved and ate, that give them the right to the ‘thousand-years’ claim?
But hey, I’m only a fourth-generation Kiwi ‘Anglo’ – what do I know?
(Now, if only I could persuade the ‘treaty industry’ that MY ancestors have been here forever – the problem is that, unlike some, I simply CAN’T tell a lie convincingly – oh well. . . )
March 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Haha, I genuinely think that will miff philu a little.
March 25th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
You have to have
documentary evidence that you can
use in court, and there no longer is
any such evidence available on
anyone still alive, in France at least
Serge Klarsfeld
March 25th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
what is the -ve karma record?
March 25th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Its a masacree over on that thread.
They’ll be counting fingernails before the voting ends. Little visit from Doc Freud and jacob shows us all whats hes made off. Its not pretty.
March 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
“what is the -ve karma record?”
Record number of clicks on the red ‘thumbs down’ button next to your name on a comment.
March 25th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Komata google Celtic New Zealand.
An amsuing little diversion.
March 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
So F&P Appliances becomes the first company to sign up to the 9 day fortnight and with the support of EPMU. So the Labour Party president embracing this recession solution and his Party Leaders slating it – a bit of conflict there i see !! And there are more companies like Air NZ interested in it. When will Labour realise they are out of touch?
March 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Stephen – I meant what is the record not what is -ve karma otherwise I would have said “what is -ve karma”
March 25th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
heh sorry, thought i remembered seeing your english not being super-perfect so i interpreted it that way for some reason. In any case I think he’s got it. Wonder if DPF knows…
March 25th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I am English but I lived in NL for a while and have cloggie relatives (thus the moniker) – I see JvH is up to 67 and rising
“i remembered seeing your english not being super-perfect” (sic) – pot and kettle I think – but thanks for trying to help
DPF – what’s the record – do we need to do bit of IP spoofing (no we would never do that!)?
March 25th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I note the IRD Maori subtitles are Te Tari Takke Can a Te Reo speaker please clarify if this translates to
The Tax Taker
March 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Te The
Tari Office/Department
Take Tax (transliteration)
March 25th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Greens
Communist (translation)
March 25th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Murray (a river) cry me one.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Funny! On DPF’s ‘Scoop’ link, follow their link from the headline “Parliament’s willingness to scrutinise the SIS” and you get this message,
March 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Murray – Celtic/Germanic “sea soldier” Literal seawolf.
greenfly – A small obnoxious insect with an irriatating buzz. Harmless.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
haha big blouse thanx for the email titled “Get ready to kiss your ass goodbye”. I needed a good laugh. Will be fun.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Hello Trevor Mallard are you still reading this blog?
Cause I am still waiting to hear your answer to your outrageous claim that employees should not work for employers who have less than 20 staff, because they will be fired after 90 days regardless of their work rate, ethic etc.
C’mon mallard you big blouse I have been away spending money hand over fist on holiday in the SI for 2 weeks, so may have missed your reply to my previous challenge. Happy to spread my dough around other business folk, may have saved an employee, leading up to 90 days, who knows.
I know that all my employees are safe in their jobs.
So come on you big bully shit, explain yourself, I know you will read this.
Oh thats right you will be busy in opposition won’t you?
Perhaps you can explain what it is you do again.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Is big bruv Trevor Mallard as they share violence problems? Who would write such stupid crap? Wow whoever this is needs a helping hand.
“Listen here dweedle brain.
I don’t have time for shitfaces like you. You want to be smacked out, then man UP, name the palce and the time and take what’s coming to you.
Sam was right – you’re all talk no action.
No, reply to this email with some real contact details and let’s sort the man (me) from the sheepfucker 9you).
BB”
March 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Can you believe this? Carbon Dioxide endangers public health. You won’t read about this in the mainstream media – of course.
Whatever science is settled it has nothing to do with the sciences I know about. (Watch out for the use of science in the singular – it refers to a strange new ideology. The Plural is correct as in “the sciences are unsettled.”
“AN “HISTORIC” DAY
According to the Washington Post, the Environmental Protection Agency will propose that greenhouse gases, including CO2, a gas necessary to sustaining life on Earth, endanger public health and welfare. This is a move that, according to the Post, “could have far-reaching implications for the nation’s economy and environment.” Predictably, environmental groups, which have been agitating for this outcome for years, were gushing with delight over this latest action by EPA. “This is historic news,” said Clean Air Watch’s Frank O’Donnell. “It will set the stage for the first-ever national limits on global warming pollution.” David Bookbinder, an attorney with the Sierra Club, was equally effusive: “They’re making all the right decisions.”
FACT: EPA’s finding is indeed historic news, for the simple fact that it will enlarge EPA’s regulatory reach to an unprecedented degree, extending it into every corner of the US economy, causing enormous economic damage. According to Peter Glaser, a national legal expert on the Clean Air Act, an endangerment finding will lead to new EPA regulations covering virtually everything, including “office buildings, apartment buildings, warehouse and storage buildings, educational buildings, health care buildings such as hospitals and assisted living facilities, hotels, restaurants, religious worship buildings, public assembly buildings, supermarkets, retail malls, agricultural facilities…and many others.” An array of new development projects could be delayed, perhaps for several years, causing “an economic train wreck.” This conclusion was supported recently by the Heritage Foundation’s Center for Data Analysis, which found that EPA’s new carbon regulations would destroy over 800,000 jobs and result in a cumulative GDP loss of $7 trillion by 2029.”
————————————————————
BUt what’s another several trillion?
March 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Lofty:
Trevor Mallard found time to comment on the TVNZ 6 and 7 to be available on Sky thread just an hour ago:
I would hate to think Trevor-the-mallard was **ducking** for cover (sorry, bad pun). You might want to follow up your discussion with him there
March 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
# getstaffed Says: “Jacob goes for -ve karma record. Pop over and join the fun!”
Steve & Getstaffed:
Nothing special to see there! Any comments from lefties that are unpopular enough to be worthwhile typically get about a dozen negatives, or up to about two dozen if they are in the more highly-read first 5 or 6 comments on the thread.
But when DPF gives his flock the signal, via a [DPF: response] or demerits, that the comment is not acceptable to right-wing thought, then watch the -ve count to go sky-high as the faithful clamber over themselves to prove (to themselves?) that they are good little kiwiblog righties too; in a veritable feeding frenzy of brownnosing and/or self-validation. it’s quite pathetic to behold really
(He had 94 -ve @6:11pm though… beats my best efforts to date!)
March 25th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Excuse me ratbiter I have just been threatened to be “smacked out” by a twisted right wing nutbar in an email sent this afternnon. Don’t bleat on about poor treatment of the lefty types on this blog. Make my day big blouse.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
dad – don’t get me wrong, I’m not here because I want the approval of these people.
Glad to see you’re starting to appreciate the twisted right wing nutbars for what they are!
March 25th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
# Nomestradamus (1845) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
March 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Lofty:
Trevor Mallard found time to comment on the TVNZ 6 and 7 to be available on Sky thread just an hour ago:
Trevor Mallard
March 25th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
I would hate to think Trevor-the-mallard was **ducking** for cover (sorry, bad pun). You might want to follow up your discussion with him there
Thanks I will track him
March 25th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
It seems that Detective Senior Sergeant Dave Pannini has now succeeded in sending a message to the community. Just one tiny problem though – wrong message. The message he seemed to want was that law abiding citizens shouldn’t be permitted to run around defending themselves against armed robbers who stab victims in the course of committing crimes.
At the time, his grandstanding comments suggested he was more concerned at the prospect of vigilante responses to burgeoning violent crime. In his own (stupid) words “it was important to send a message”.
The concern is understandable given that from a public policy perspective, it mightn’t be desirable to have hordes of hockey players roaming the streets dispensing justice or even self-defence. But his immediate priority was dealing with the incident properly ie arrive at a view regarding prosecution of Mr Singh. Given that his “case”, with all its attendant hooplah/flashing cameras/media extravaganza got the arse at depositions, the very first hurdle ( a hurdle that typically seems more of a formality for the coppers) you can’t help but help but wonder about his motivation.
Instead, the message that he has sent is that the Police are prepared to prosecute victims of crime in order to achieve a public policy objective in preference to enforcing the Crimes Act. In doing that, he seems to have relied on “evidence” of assailants who took a knife to the scene, used it, and by their own admissions, were too pissed to recall what happened. He’s made himself look like a plonker and even if he is a plonker, its not a huge plus that he’s perceived as such. He simply drags down those of his colleagues that don’t indulge in these antics. Someone should tell him this ain’t Boston Legal or LA Law.
There is a disturbing propensity on the part of Police (the Veitch business is another recent example) to indulge in this grandstanding activity with embarrassing results. Maybe they should leave off on the spin and focus on getting on with the job. In the wake of a number of other well publicised sticky moments that Mr Plod has suffered in recent months, you have to wonder where the leadership is. Irrespective of Bain’s guilt or innocence, the Police evidence in the re-trial is producing more embarrassment.
In any commercial organisation, there would have been action from the top long ago. There is a point at which you no can longer shuffle the blame “downhill”, or crap on about revising procedures, “internal reviews”, counseling, responsibility of senior management (ie “it wasn’t me”) … blah blah blah …. There is a point at which you have to stop relying on pulling levers, climb down out of the crane, and go kick arse and sort the problem out. Instead, like Corrections, the Police muddle from one disaster to another. Commissioner Broad looks more and more like Captain Pugwash.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
“Glad to see you’re starting to appreciate the twisted right wing nutbars for what they are!”
ratbiter -NO ONE threatens me without consequences. I mean NO ONE.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I think you are reading to much into it Ratbiter, You troll and get trolled in return, don’t pretend otherwise.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
My word big blouse is really worked up.My email box is fill of hate and silly threats.I just gave myself a thumb down BB saving you the job. What a laugh.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Banana – I’m not reading anything into it! Those are my *observations*.
And let’s not go down the “Disagrees with the prevailing view = a troll” track here, it does Dave’s libertarian content a disservice!
March 25th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Ratbiter I often agree with statements by those left of the political spectrum as any reasonable person knows an overly ideological approach is invariably wrong and many issues should not be dominated by capitalism vs socialism arguments – they are often intrusions into an issue that should be nothing to do with politics and more to do with morals or lie in the common middle ground but ……..
JvH (and greenfly) are trolls – they are dedicated and committed trolls – they insult, distract, change subject, present ludicrous arguments and generally get on everyone’s tits. It’s deliberate. I’m suprised they don’t get banned. The tiny bit of my mind that believes in conspiracy theories reckons someone pays them to do it as they spend so much of their time doing it.
This is not about disagreeing with a prevailing view (which I did on the standard by the way and got repeatedly smacked down by the moderators – gave up as it wasn’t a discussion – I expect other posters to do it but not the moderators) – it’s about repeated behaviour that creates its own reaction .. but you can believe otherwise if it makes you feel better
On the +vs side I reckon you tend to debate the articles more and as such I respect you for it – even if I disagree
March 25th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
As this system will again not let me comment on the post I long in off I will make my point here
Refer President (Sir) Wira Gardiner
What a wonderful gesture no only has Wira Gardiner given two wives to the party as MPs but now is prepared to step in personally and take a senoir role as well.
There was a comment about MPs spouse being the President. I agree but my agreement has no reflection upon the Wira or his wife.
I think that the parliamentary wing of the party at times has had to greater say in the running of the party and this has been to the detriment- of the party.
I believe that there should be a greater separation at times.
If it were not for the Party the Politician would not be were they are but also at times the Party would not be where it was if it were not for the Politicians it is a fine line to walk and at times there needs to be some control exercised by the Party as a whole. To have the President in personal relationship with one of the MPs could make this a very difficult tight rope to walk.
March 25th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
“The tiny bit of my mind that believes in conspiracy theories” oh oh slijmbal! Focus! Turn away from the light!
March 25th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
slijmbal – careful! if insulting, changing the subject and presenting ludicrous arguments are signs of trollhood, then I dare say Kiwiblog is beset by just as many right-wing trolls as left-wing ones…
March 25th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Ratbiter – When someone (of whatever political inclination) consistently says things as stupid, vile and nasty as JVH then -ve karma will flow. And so it should. Yes some of this might be unthinking, and a “I’m happy today” post from you might attract -ve karma which just proves that some people have had objectivity bypasses. That’s life. However my belief is that most commenter’s here are balanced in their karma giving. Hell, even I (an uber-right wing free market zealot) have karma’ed you up a few times
March 25th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Virender Singh.
Public Hero No 1.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
D4J
Apologies for not getting back to you earlier than this, however I have been busy all day in Tauranga.
While I think you are a raving lunatic I can assure you that I have not sent you any emails at all, I suspect it may well be somebody taking the piss out of you (not hard to do really)
It is not my style to send threatening emails to anybody and most certainly not you, for a start it would not be worth the effort.
I will not ask for an apology from you because I simply do not care enough about the issue, my only reason for responding to you was to set the record straight, you can take it from me D4J that I just do not have enough spare heartbeats to waste sending people like you private emails.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
“After the current Global Correction a second hand Nano is about all a typical Kiwi is going to be able to afford. No more Holdens on New Zealand roads.”
Be a sad day.
you could’ve said Fords!
March 25th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
“While I think you are a raving lunatic ”
You just can’t stop yourself big blouse can you. Why do you persist with your gutless attacks on my credibility? It was you alright.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
What time was the email sent to you D4J?
March 25th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Rodentchomper – to some extent I agree – but overall I think you’re talking nonsense – let me explain.
D4J is practically a single theme poster, for instance – many of his posts relate back to his personal experiences. However, I notice he often receives high -ve karma as do several other posters who would be seen as right wing for similar types of selfish behaviour – so this isn’t the single theme, all row in the same direction blog I believe you imply by your post.
Several posters start with personal abuse and insults for JvH and greenfly as a matter of course but from personal experience I can also state that I’ve been trolled by both – I did not provoke it – it happened. I decided to be aggressive in my response and was on the front foot in my dealings with these guys once it happened a couple of times – I now have no time for either of those two particular posters – they rarely answer your questions or enter in to discussion on the issues. So now, I just don’t bother with these guys – I’m surprised so many rise to their bait as they so infrequently make a point – they spend the majority of their time insulting and taunting.
I also agree that there are posters here who also barely discuss the issues – but it is interesting that most of the high volume left winger posters here are trolls – that is a message.
There are lot of posts in the form that clark is a devil from hell and pass the holy water (remarkably accurate
) – but left wing blogs are pretty much the same – this is not trolling.
So no, your implication that JvH and greenfly are no worse than equivalents here on Kiwiblog is flawed. They are professional trolls.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
bb which one, as I have received a dozen threats since 3pm this afternoon? Such is life as a blogger.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
How the fuck would I know which one it was D4J?
Look, at the risk of seeming like I give a shit (which I can assure you I do not) I am going to say this on the matter and that is it as far as I am concerned.
Between the hours of 9.30am and approximately 4.30pm I was either in meetings or driving, so I can assure you that I did not send any emails.
Now if that is not good enough for you then tough fucking luck.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
slilmbal – I hardly know what to say, I’m….well frankly, I’m flattered. No amateur me, I’m a pro! You’ve been ‘trolled’ by me? Don’t give yourself airs. I can smell flakey thinking from kilometres away!
March 25th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Phil, thanks for drawing that to my attention. A fantastic article from Rolling Stone. I did note your posts yesterday but wasn’t pursuing the GFC topic too closely last night and missed it first time round. Thanks again for your persistence.
That article is one more piece in the jigsaw and as you suggested, it is exactly in line with what I was suggesting the other day.
This whole episode we’re currently in the middle of, stinks like hell, doesn’t it.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Mouse Muncher
The pavlovian response remains – see the flying phlegm in the previous post – hard to script such a perfect response to prove my point.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Jacob Van Hartog – 108 negative karma @ 10.pm
that even beats your record as the most unpopular kiwiblogger grenefly
March 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
d4j said: bb which one, as I have received a dozen threats since 3pm this afternoon? Such is life as a blogger.
I don’t condone the threats d4j, but I do understand them, because you are a very very sick puppy!
March 25th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Give it a break toad. It gets rather tiresome after awhile. No wonder the greens are viewed as utterly disgraceful. Stop drinking the vinegar.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Patrick Starr said: Jacob Van Hartog – 108 negative karma @ 10.pm
that even beats your record as the most unpopular kiwiblogger grenefly
Shit, what am I doing wrong? Can’t ever remember getting below -20.
Yesterday I got a -13, but compensated for by a +12.
Tends to be only when I stray into industrial relations issues I get seriously bad karma. What is it about you guys that makes you so want to deny hardworking New Zealand workers getting a fair suck on the sav?
March 25th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Toad
Trolling is not your style mate.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
bruv said: Trolling is not your style mate.
Hey bruv, this is a General Debate thread. You can’t troll (or threadjack, for that matter) in General Debate. Anything goes.
Anyway, I thought your opinion of d4j’s contributions here was somewhat similar to mine. At least you will debate rationally with me (well, most of the time) even though we disagree on most political issues. But d4j’s just a dickhead who hurls abuse at anyone who doesn’t adhere to his narrow and bigoted view of how the world should be.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Why do you think we don’t, toad?
Fact is, if someone doesn’t grow up in a family that values education, self-discipline and have all the other life experiences that eventually in adulthood differentiate middle-aged $30,000 factory/process workers from the money you and I earn when we’re middle-aged, then why is it solely the employer’s responsibility to redress that balance?
I’m not saying you necessarily say that or even believe it, but in general terms, that appears to be the lefty position.
I often wonder why lefties don’t spend more time and energy advocating for those values in their constituents instead of what they do do, which is advocate the politics of envy and selfishness. We’ve just had nine long years of a perfect lefty environment where that should have been eminently possible and yet not once did we ever hear of any program that advocated that the key to success in life is self-discipline and loving your family as you love yourself and valuing education.
If we ever heard something along those lines from the lefties then I’d start to think that maybe they’re starting to get it. Unfortunately that hasn’t happened yet.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
slijmbal – it’s like putting out a fire with gasoline, innit?
Patrick – that’s knocked the wind out of my sails! Better pull my horns in, now that I’ve been bested by the best.
Jacob, I’m gutted.
Toady, you’re Mr Farrar’s favourite – stay close, then when the time is right, strike !
March 25th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Now, reid, this is an interesting discussion.
Tell me, why does the guy who cleans the shithouse get paid so much less than the guy who audits the accounts.
You would say it is qualifications. But if everyone were qualified to audit the accounts, someone still needs to clean the shithouse. And it is a nasty job that no-one really wants to do, so perhaps it deserves higher pay on that basis. But it doesn’t get it.
So what if everyone gets the qualifications necessary to audit the accounts, and no-one will demean themselves to clean the shithouse.
Well, then we’re all up to our ankles in the brown smelly stuff, aren’t we?
March 25th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
slijmbal could clean the shithouse? Why not!
March 25th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
toad the difference is everyone can clean the shithouse – only some people know how to audit accounts – economics 101 – supply and demand – but you knew that because not everyone is capable of getting the qualifications required. Poor argument. So not an interesting discussion.
Ratbiter – are you asking the flying phleghm to prove my point or am I just lucky that way?
March 25th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Toad, I vaguely recall from my economics something called the diamond-water paradox.
Water is so much more valuable to life yet diamonds are considered more valuable monetarily. It’s an illustration of supply and demand. That’s why manual labour, while vital, is valued less. Taking it away from capitalism into say the military, you see the same thing in the military with the Officer Corp vs the Enlisted Ranks. The Officers are presumed to have skills not possessed by other ranks and those are the skills that are presumed will win the day. Naturally, people are people and it doesn’t always work but generally when things come together, it happens that way. This is why the shithouse cleaner is paid less, we can always find another. But can you find another CEO, or General?
The point you raise however is well taken. I abhor the way the ratio of lowest paid to highest paid in any organisation has gotten out of whack since the 80′s. It used to be that the CEO was paid about 16 times the amount of the lowest paid and that ratio was preserved for many years.
Outstanding capitalists like Warren Buffet have preserved this and as you may know he takes only $100,000 per year from Berkshire Hathaway. I wish that more people would follow his lead.
Avarice is extremely unhealthy, it leads to personal deprivation and ill will toward others. It’s entirely unnecessary in that the capitalist system could function effectively without it. Unfortunately its prevalence today is a marker in the state of our society.
However, avarice exists both in wealthy and in poor people. It’s a state of mind based on fear of wont and envy with the ultimate cause being either a surfeit or a lack of ego. The real question is, how do we eliminate this state of mind in people from all walks of life?
Toad I’m sorry I need to retire now, big day tomorrow. However would love to continue discussing, tomorrow evening.
March 26th, 2009 at 7:49 am
too much detail reid. the easy answer would be the greens would have clean shithouses anyway – so why would it affect toad?