“Poverty” wages

March 26th, 2009 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

The EPMU has said Air NZ strike attendants are striking over their wages.

Air NZ has said the cabin crew could earn between $40,000 and $60,000 per annum for just 30 hours of week a work.

If Air NZ is correct, then the is saying a wage of up to $38.35 per hour is a “poverty” wage.

The 4.5% pay increase offered has been rejected as it does not meet the EPMU’s demands of a 26% increase in salaries and 70% in allowances. So they are striking over Easter – the time designed to cause maximum hassles for passengers.

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89 Responses to ““Poverty” wages”

  1. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    If $38.35 is a poverty wage then why aren’t the EPMU campaigning for the minimum wage to be set at or above this level?

    Bloody unions! I hate ‘em. The annually commemorated days in my life are my birthday, wedding anniversary, and the day I was able to leave the union.

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  2. racer (257 comments) says:

    Quick quick every one, I think this is where we are all supposed to complain about his “disgusting sense of entitlement”.

    Really what the issue here is is that AirNZ use a large number of different companies for no reason other than doing their best too keep wages down.

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  3. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    Is that the EPMU or the Labour party that is driving this? Remind me again who is the majority shareholder of Air NZ and who’s idea it was to buy it ?

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  4. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    Farrar, notice the word could. AirNZ don’t say staff do earn, just could earn.

    In fact these very people would earn more if AirNZ employed them directly, rather than via an agreement that keeps them on much lower wages than AirNZ directly employed staff.

    It never ceases to amaze me how quicjk the capitalist class is to jump on any sign the workers might get a fair deal. Don’t you fucking idiots realise that if the workers have less money you have less market for your products and services?

    You’re all fucking idiots and a complete waste of time.

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  5. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    What a joke. The domestic servants wants the same as the international ones? so they would get the same benefits as the sevrants that work more hours and spend half thier life overseas..

    course, this is the same union that wanted Air NZ to pay the chief servant on the plane the same wage as the first officer.. they also wanted to be second in charge after the captain heh

    cause in a crisis, i want the guy/girl that brings me my coffee to be in charge! afterall, they did a 6 week training course! unlike that pesky first officer that spent years learning how to fly.

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  6. Ross Miller (1,704 comments) says:

    Racer … you need to figure it out old son. We are talking about short haul flights. Take Samoa for instance. Couple of years ago Air NZ had the route pretty well sewn up. Now there are other options (e.g. Pacific Blue) with highly competitive fares. This all against a backdrop of declining passenger numbers.

    One might think the priority for the EMPU might be to try and save jobs. Remind me how many long haul staff have been made redundant over the last little while.

    Talk about killing the goose.

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  7. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    MyNameIsJack

    Don’t fly Air NZ. Simple as that, vote to help the workers by punishing their big nasty shareholders who rape the company for the maximum profit. Who are the nasty corporate owners of Air NZ who pay the staff shit to ensure a good dividend?

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  8. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Hey Jack – (((hug))))

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  9. Ratbiter (1,265 comments) says:

    Having seen just a little of how hard those people work, IMHO they are definitely worth it.

    But correct it is ridiculous to call $60K “Poverty wages”.

    (Unless the job imposes serious lifestyle costs on the employees? e.g. If there is no car parking for Air NZ cabin staff at the airport then I imagine 11:30pm taxi rides home after the last flight of the day, every day would soon add up…)

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  10. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    They COULD earn BETWEEN $40k and $60k.

    You are wasting your time Jack, because no one is buying your BS here.

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  11. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    how hard they work? lol

    they also get cheap airfares.. $400 return to LA etc etc for them and one nominee..

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  12. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    Ah yes, the lefties become enraged as we have come to expect.

    They demand wage increases for AirNZ staff in one browser window…
    … while booking low-cost flights on another airline in another browser window.

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  13. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    getstaffed

    There was never any trouble about Air NZ wages when Labour were in govt – why was that? Have National recently reduced the wages or are the EPMU unable to fight for workers rights when the emoployer is the Labour party ?

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  14. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    Could meaning that most of them do, because they almost always get the allowances. But hypothetically speaking, there might be some employees who don’t get all those allowances.

    How about we try this one – instead of complaining about what they are paid, why don’t they go somewhere else and work? If their skills are that good someone else will be happy to pay them more. What’s that I hear? Not much call for serving coffee, other than in a restaurant – and wait staff don’t typically get paid $40K to $60K for 30 hours work? Hmmm. Calls into question the pay demand then, doesn’t it.

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  15. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    getstaffed and others The Antis dont/wont understand economics and business they have their heads buried up their arses which are the most intellegent part of their bodies

    Attempting to have an informed discourse with them is a waste of time.

    They forth and foam with no knowledge of the dynamics in the airline sector world wide. If they did they would keep their mouths shut and just go on booking those Air NZ fares

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  16. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    burt – indeed. And I think Andrew Little probably wants some additional ‘defend the worker from capitalist oppression” profile.

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  17. Jim (398 comments) says:

    “Don’t fly Air NZ. Simple as that”/

    Exactly. That’ll teach those profit-mad Air NZ bosses! Hit them where it hurts.

    Sure, they won’t need as many cabin crew, but as long as those greedy bosses are making smaller profits then a few dozen jobs is a small price to pay.

    Duh. Unions.

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  18. nzdan (1 comment) says:

    I am an inflight service manager on the A320. I have held this position for 7 months, and have been flying with the Zeal team for exactly one year. My last payslip shows a year-to-date GROSS salary, including all bonuses, allowances etc, as at 19 March, is $31532.
    Where this $40k – $60k comes from is well beyond me. The company has a bonus scheme, however this is not guaranteed, nor transparent. Targets are not met if customers provide negative feedback about a particular flight. But we are never told exactly WHAT these complaints are, or what we can do to fix these. Targets are not met if a crew member injures themselves, but the company refuses to change the seatbelt sign policy so crew must be seated during turbulence, rather than encouraged to continue serving passengers from 100kg bar carts as is current procedure.
    When was the last time your waiter at a restaurant performed CPR? Adminstered oxygen? We don’t have the luxury of calling 111. Our decisions in situations affect others’ lives. I just hope that karma is favourable on those of you who look down on aircrew – that the day your aircraft is on fire, or ditching, or when you are onboard and have a heart attack.
    Yes, to an outsider, it’s just tea and coffee in the sky. But for crew, it’s a different story. I have had to perform CPR, care for people having a stroke, deal with a 5 year old going into anaphylactic shock, and put out a fire, amongst a host of other challenges.
    The suggested 26% increase still doesn’t match others within the air nz group. And I have flown long-haul for a foreign carrier, and it is blasphemous to suggest that long-haul flying is harder than tasman / pacific flying.
    I’m guessing some people will just never understand. I feel sorry for your partners, kids and workmates.

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  19. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    So Labour President Little thinks $60k is “rich prick” territory that must be addressed by the highest tax bracket and tax increases.

    But EPMU President Little thinks $60k is poverty line.

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  20. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Hey MyNameIsJoke, there must be a serious deficiency of meaning (or gainful employment) in your life for you to spend so much time trolling on this blog and accuse people of being idiots, although you did make me laugh (at you, not with you). I have to say you are stupid, utterly.
    It’s clear you don’t have ambition, and although sometimes you seem to have at least a rudimentary education I have to conclude from your tedious drivel that you don’t have the ability to last in a meaningful or stimulating job. The probability is that you’re a long term cannabis user who can’t hold down a job, are you perhaps philu’s flatmate?

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  21. kiwivirgin (6 comments) says:

    Okay this is where you are all very wrong. The Zeal 320 crew have asked for parity to there colleagues on the domestic airline. If that equates to a 25% payrise then it shows the vast diffrence in wages. If the Zeal crew are downroute they get no allowances. The rate for an inflight service manager responsible for the management of the cabin crew and passengers onboard is $37’000 a longhaul counter part is around $90,000. That is actually all they get. they do get an allowance of $4.87per hour. this is to cover working days off, shoes, make up, hair, dry cleaning etc all which cost money. The inflight service manager actually is on the same as a new entrant crew member on the long haul airline. should this be right?? no crew member at Zeal 320 earns close to $60’000 if that was the case why are they trying to get Inflight managers a wage of $50’000??? how about you get the facts straight before criticising something you have no knowledge of

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  22. kiwivirgin (6 comments) says:

    By the way the crew are employed (and still are) on the Freedom air contract a low cost subsidary that does not exist but the airline has decided its cheap so hire on it.

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  23. kiwivirgin (6 comments) says:

    and working at 30 hours a week, last week my partner worked 68 hours. and guess what he is doing it all again this week. Air NZ are liars and suggest you challenge properly for the facts and figures. this shows how out of touch the management with there workers are at this very top heavy company

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  24. KiwiGreg (3,255 comments) says:

    If they dont like the terms and conditions they signed up for they should quit and get better jobs.

    I’d be interested to know how many applicants Air NZ gets everytime they advertise these positions.

    The allowances are a complete rort – getting paid for restaurant meals and eating at McDonalds.

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  25. kiwivirgin (6 comments) says:

    Im sorry that where you are wrong again we dont get allownces to eat in restaurants. You know what people like you are the reason this country is so bloody backwards

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  26. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    It is ‘poverty’ wages when you take it into context of the Air New Zealand Group. I don’t think anyone will claim that they are living below the poverty line of the general population even if the are living in Jafaville.

    The problem is they are working under a contract that sees them undertaking all the same tasks in the same environment as colleagues working similar or same routes but for less money. This worked kind of when some of these staff were working inside the yellow planes but now they’re all painted the same colour.

    Basically they need to fight the good fight even in times such as these, for years terms and conditions of positions such as these and I will include pilots have been systematically lowered. In the good times there has been little reward so why should staff bend when times get bad. If companies possessed an attitude that was more about the long-term than the next financial report they would probably find a far more supportive staff willing to help out in the tough times.

    Witness the battles over the years amongst the pilot groups across Eagle Airways, Air Nelson and Mount Cook Airline – does the general public even know they exist? Three seperate 100% Air New Zealand owned subsidiaries flying regional aircraft in New Zealand, not including the 737’s flying for Air New Zealand mainline. What an incredible duplication of management and waste of resources. Yet the easiest way to cut costs is to cut back on allowances and use seperate companies to keep employees on differing pay scales?!

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  27. kiwivirgin (6 comments) says:

    Oh and when the average worker at Zeal last 52 days why dont you ask the government why your hard earnt tax payer dollars are supplying air nz with a cheap labour hire company. you know what I hope your companies decide to outsource your jobs. might make you think a little differently

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  28. CraigM (694 comments) says:

    “You’re all fucking idiots and a complete waste of time.”

    Considering the source, that is one of the funniest comments I have ever read on Kiwiblog.

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  29. kiwivirgin (6 comments) says:

    I am an inflight service manager on the A320. I have held this position for 7 months, and have been flying with the Zeal team for exactly one year. My last payslip shows a year-to-date GROSS salary, including all bonuses, allowances etc, as at 19 March, is $31532.
    Where this $40k – $60k comes from is well beyond me. The company has a bonus scheme, however this is not guaranteed, nor transparent. Targets are not met if customers provide negative feedback about a particular flight. But we are never told exactly WHAT these complaints are, or what we can do to fix these. Targets are not met if a crew member injures themselves, but the company refuses to change the seatbelt sign policy so crew must be seated during turbulence, rather than encouraged to continue serving passengers from 100kg bar carts as is current procedure.
    When was the last time your waiter at a restaurant performed CPR? Adminstered oxygen? We don’t have the luxury of calling 111. Our decisions in situations affect others’ lives. I just hope that karma is favourable on those of you who look down on aircrew – that the day your aircraft is on fire, or ditching, or when you are onboard and have a heart attack.
    Yes, to an outsider, it’s just tea and coffee in the sky. But for crew, it’s a different story. I have had to perform CPR, care for people having a stroke, deal with a 5 year old going into anaphylactic shock, and put out a fire, amongst a host of other challenges.
    The suggested 26% increase still doesn’t match others within the air nz group. And I have flown long-haul for a foreign carrier, and it is blasphemous to suggest that long-haul flying is harder than tasman / pacific flying.
    I’m guessing some people will just never understand. I feel sorry for your partners, kids and workmates.

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  30. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    “It is ‘poverty’ wages when you take it into context of the Air New Zealand Group.”

    By that idiotic definition of poverty, an analyst at one of the deceased investment banks earning $250k a year was receiving a ‘poverty wage’!

    Just because they are paid less, that doesnt mean they are underpaid. The other guys could be overpaid.

    Remove the kitchen, have a few vending machines, get rid of the cabin “crew” and knock $10 off my airfare, please.

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  31. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    So Air NZ gets opportunity to be uncompetitive.

    AirNZ shuts down uncompetitive routes.

    All workers go onto poverty wages (dole)

    Mission accomplished EPMU.

    You don’t get this sort of brilliance locally. You need to import pre-Thatcherite Poms to hit this level…

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  32. Inventory2 (10,339 comments) says:

    Which hat is Andrew Little wearing these days? Is he still the General Secretary of the EPMU, or is he the Labour Party president? Or both? Or neither?

    If this kind of industrial extortion is what a Labour government would wish upon us, let us hope that Phil Goff remains Labour leader for the next 30 years!

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  33. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    I’m by know means defending the use of the term just underscoring the reason such rhetoric was used. Some people will only be happy once everyone is earning the minimum wage, apart from management of course and um the human destruction, I mean human resources department.

    “get rid of the cabin “crew”” – it never ceases to amaze me how so few people realise the value of a well trained cabin crew. I thought that was the point of competition and a diverse market was having a range of carriers. Air New Zealand are attempting to be the premium carrier of choice in NZ and the South Pacific, for your vending machine example that is where Jetstar come in. Another instrument to lower terms and conditions across the board. Look at the contract for their NZ operation and its almost like they have nothing to do with Jetstar. “Those kiwis will work for peanuts, then we can show this to our boys and tell them to suck it up in the next round of negotiations”.

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  34. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Good lord the left have really settled into their role of hate filled doom sayers haven’t.

    definately the natural party of opposition.

    Get used to it guys, we’re kind of tied of spite filled rants from the 9th floor and reminding us every day of how much hate you have is going to ensure you stay out of there.

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  35. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    “I’m by know means defending the use of the term just underscoring the reason such rhetoric was used.”

    It is downright deceptive and inflamatory. It adds nothing to the discussion. Just like saying that,

    “Some people will only be happy once everyone is earning the minimum wage, apart from management of course…”

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  36. coventry (321 comments) says:

    So what would Andrew Littles annual income be these days, holding down 2 jobs & all. I bet by his sub-standards that he doesn’t think he’s a ‘rich prick’. Perhaps he thinks he’s on a poverty wage too.

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  37. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    I have to admit that the girl who serves me coffee at a cafe probably wont have to try to get me out of a crashed plane, but $40-$60K for 30 hours is OK money to me.

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  38. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    I hope we don’t have to go as far as we did down this path in the 1980’s before Kiwis woke up to the extent of the problem. Remember the “Kiwis Care” protest march? (Sniff…!)

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  39. CraigM (694 comments) says:

    From me earlier:

    “You’re all fucking idiots and a complete waste of time.”

    Considering the source, that is one of the funniest comments I have ever read on Kiwiblog.
    ____________________________________________________________________________
    TWO negative karma for that !

    I’m shocked.

    I didn’t know Jack had any friends.

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  40. unaha-closp (1,165 comments) says:

    What a difference a year makes.

    Last year the EPMU worked with the same airline and the same subcontractors behind closed doors to produce an excellent wage package. No real pay demands, no boat rocking, no chance at all of a strike. This year they go on strike because their pay is 26% too low, on Easter to maximise the disruption and screw over the economy.

    If AirNZ are really getting poverty level pay now, they were getting it last year and the year before that. If workers are really this desperate it is because the EPMU (same applies to SFWU/CTU/PSA) has screwed over the workers for the last 9 years to make the unions political bosses (Andrew Little & everyone else thru to Helen Clark) look good. Last year the junior doctors threatened strike action for less of an increase than this and guess who came out to say this was unjustifiable.

    Members of the Labour Party’s pet unions should have no illusions. Their jobs, their wages, their conditions only exist for the political benefit of the parliamentary wing. Andrew will agitate his Little legs off, strikes and wage demands will increase, unemployment will grow, the economy will stifle – do enough of this and our next PM starts looking really good.

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  41. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    LeftPilot, somewhere in the country, if not the world, somebody is getting paid more for doing the same job. So who isn’t deserving of a massive wage increase?

    If the lower wage company Zeal still manages to attract sufficient employees, then you have your answer – they are demonstrably meeting (or exceeding) the going rate for the services of the people who apply for the position.

    All these judgments about the value of flight crew are useless – who knows what the motivation for people signing up for flight crew is. Could be the discounted travel, or the chance to fly, or a stepping stone to other positions, or perhaps some people simply want to be cabin crew. It doesn’t matter what outsiders think of the work or conditions – because we’re not the ones who have looked at Zeal’s employment offer and decided it works for us. Zeal’s employees have, and its a very reliable signal that what Zeal offers is meeting the going rate.

    So what is the EPMU adding here? A 26% wage increase demanded by EPMU may put Zeal out of business. Which does nobody any favours whatsoever, especially in a contracting economy.

    If the EPMU is out to make a political point now that National is in power, then, and only then, are Zeal’s employees the victims.

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  42. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    If airline staff are in poverty with such wages, then hamburger joints must be the 21st century equivalent of workhouses at least as far as the hamburger flippers are concerned.

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  43. Tauhei Notts (1,712 comments) says:

    “ben”
    Brilliant!

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  44. egg (4 comments) says:

    I am a zeal crew member, i signed my current contract when i applied to work for Freedom Air and had finished my training for Freedom Air. 3 years ago exactly when i signed my contract there was no mention of turning us into Air NZ, the only mention of Air NZ flights was that we might occasionally work an air nz flight if we are trained on the same air craft. This is why we are asking for a better contract with pay parity for the same job as domestic and international Air NZ crew. We need to have the same/similar working conditions!
    The companies media release stating we were offered “$40,000 – $60,000 for 30 hour working week” is a lie, why do you think we will be striking? We can be rostered to work 6 days in a row of 12 hour days…. you do the math! We fly to Rarotonga, Tonga, Adelaide, Cairns on flights that leave in the evening and are considered quite long (4-6hours one way) and then we fly back. We dont have crew rest areas away from the passengers like Long Haul. We dont have a pick up and drop off system like long haul so we dont drive home so tired we could fall asleep at the wheel when going home at 6am after not sleeping all night. We are given 2x $60 voucher for taxis…….after we have ‘achieved’ 30mins rest at some point during that duty.
    We need better conditions to cover shifts like this. We all know that food in Tokyo, L.A etc is more expensive than food in AKL,WLG and CHC. We dont want the same allowances as Long Haul when they stay in L.A for 2 nights, we want enough money to pay for dry cleaning the uniforms we wear that stain and crease so easily, stockings that rip all the time, hair and make up products required to comply with company standard.
    I earn $28,585 annual salary before tax. Add on another $10,000 for allowances for dry cleaning, food while away (yes i go to the supermarket! i dont eat hotel meals) stockings, make up, phone calls.
    For all of you out there who think i am just a servent who hands out tea and coffee…well that just makes me sad. I have given CPR, Heimlich manouver on children, cleaned spew off people, children and recently an elderly gentleman who was traveling alone and i washed his jersey in the bathroom basin (its hard enough to have enough room to wash your hands in those tiny basins let alone a woolen jersey!). I have people yell at me and yet i still smile because believe it or not – I LOVE MY JOB. Air NZ calls us Zeal members Air New Zealanders but treat us nowhere near it, we will be rostered to attend a course with Air NZ’rs and not allowed to touch the free lunch on offer because we are “zeal”
    We can be away for up to 5 nights away at a time and that gets expensive considering we dont have kitchens or even microwaves in our hotel rooms to keep our food costs down. Please support our right to have the same wages/conditions as the other Air NZ flight attendants doing the same job.

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  45. Dale 08 (32 comments) says:

    I bet anyone wanting to travel at that time will book with another airline.So well done the union you just screwed your members once again.And the people who get caught up in the strike wont ever book with Air NZ again. I know I wont take the chance.

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  46. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    ben your quite right globally wages are very different and thats why NZ is a low wage economy in OECD terms. It is also the reason why I am working overseas in order to build experience although I would much prefer to be working at home. General Aviation salaries for pilots in NZ are terrible but there are more pilots in the market than there is demand, and it is a very small market.

    All ‘well if the people are willing to take the job’ aside, how it is fair as I described earlier when there are employees doing the same job, employed by the same company in the same country and with vastly different terms and conditions. No one has yet to answer me why most companies take such short term views. This used to frustrate me before my first flying job when I was in a low level management position and dealing with the short-sightedness of an Australian based employer.

    Is not a happy workforce a productive one? What of the long-term effects of the continued degradation of terms and conditions of airline workers. Yes aircraft are safer and the technology is getting better all the time but honestly there are so many good people leaving the industry. The tipping point may very well one day be reached but it will have been so insidious that the general public will not realise how it reached this point.

    You talk about attracting enough people and by and large they always will especially as the unemployment rate goes up, but what of the attrition of good employees, the goodwill of remaining employees? Why are companies only worried about return to shareholders? Yes this is a their responsibility but why will they refuse to take a longterm view on employees when they will do it for capital purchases? Be mean to keep them keen is not the answer.

    Unions like many corporations are a not always perfect instrument and in this case the rhetoric has got a little out of hand but their value is immense and thankfully while not strong in many industries they still have a voice in the aviation industry.

    Low wages are not in the best interest of this country or this economy. Air New Zealand since its near collapse has been an on balance largely successful company, yes there are tough times ahead but it is armed with a healthy bank balance. While there will always be a need to manage costs this should not be at the expense of the good people who have helped get the company where it is today.

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  47. onehungaprincess (1 comment) says:

    @ Dime You are not very well informed are you!

    It is correct that we took the job knowing what our rate of pay would be. I did this some 5 years ago and now our jobs have changed considerably but the pay rates have not increased to match CPI. Part of what this action is about is that Air NZ are wanting to change our conditions. i am trained to work on the A320 they are proposing that we be deployed on to any type of aircraft and any service. we currently do trans-tasman and pacific islands, I did not take this job to suddenly be doing long haul flights. If i choose to work long haul i would be on a much higher rate of pay. It seems that Air NZ is wanting to lower it’s wage bill by getting rid of higher paid long haul employees and replace them with lower paid Zeal employees. This does not seem fair to the long haul staff and certainly is not correct to suddenly change my work. How would you feel if suddenly the company you worked for said we dont want you in our auckland office, we want you to commute/relocate to wellington at your own expense (i know its not a great analogy, but it is the best one i can come up with right now).

    Re: the Domestic servant – yep sometimes the job is mindless and thankless! But we are primarily trained and employed to ensure the safety and security of the passengers. The feeding and watering of the passengers is a secondary role. mostly we enjoy our jobs interacting with some fine people, but you do get your share of obnoxious, sometimes drunk, passengers, the former one, I suspect you would be. However, as well as the CAA training to ensure passenger safety, I also have to have a bar managers license and need to have a thorough understanding of first aid. When was the last time you had to perform CPR and jump-start someone’s heart – or deliver a baby hours from the nearest ambulance/hospital.

    Re: the increase of 26% – this isnt even on the table, we wont and dont expect to get that type of increase, but the current offer of 3.8%, reduction of hours and removing a travel allowance means the the offer out there is lower than what we are currently earning!
    This talk of 40-60K as the pay rate is propaganda from air NZ, i sure would like for Zeal-Air NZ to top up my pay to this level, certainly wouldnt be talking about striking.

    Thanks for listening.

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  48. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    “how it is fair as I described earlier when there are employees doing the same job, employed by the same company in the same country and with vastly different terms and conditions.”

    Because the people that are on a higher wage have more bargaining power than those on the lower amount.

    If the people on the high wage were willing to take a pay cut, I am sure the people on the lower wage could achieve parity. The problem exists because the real market price of the labour is lower than that being paid to the high wage employees. Which can force down wages for those without the same amount of bargaining power. You need to look at the reason why the market price isnt being paid.

    There can be a number of reasons why it isnt. Union “bargained” contracts from the seventies and eighties that would cost more to break than would be saved is often a cause. Government mandated remuneration or employment standards is another. If you want to think that management are just being bastards and screwing over their workforce, ask youself, why arent they being a bastard to all their employees? Why are some being shown preferential treatment?

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  49. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    “This talk of 40-60K as the pay rate is propaganda from air NZ…”

    If it is false, then call it false.

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  50. big bruv (13,887 comments) says:

    egg & onehungaprincess

    Interesting contributions from you both, the theme seems to be one of “we deserve” and “its not fair”.

    The reality is that the business world is constantly changing, all of us have to adapt to that change or go out of business, you people seem to be of the opinion that your industry or more specifically your particular positions should be immune to that change and that we as consumers and “users” of your services should be happy to pay you people (by way of higher prices) more than the market dictates you are worth.

    The business world is simple, if you believe your skills are worth more than you are being offered then either find a new industry where those skills can be better rewarded or find another airline that will pay you what you want.
    And please, all this talk of performing the “Heimlich manoeuvre” and dealing with drunks does not make you unique, there are plenty of people who have occupations where they have to often render first aid.

    Air NZ is partly owned by the tax payer, and as part owner of that company you are damn right that I want to change your conditions, I want a return for my investment, I would of course rather that the government sold off Air NZ to the highest bidder as it is not the place of any government to own an airline but until that happens then you and Air NZ have a duty to provide me with a dividend each and every year.

    Ultimately the choice is of course yours, if you are not happy then leave and get another job, but please do not expect any sympathy from me or the bulk of Kiwi’s who you plan to inconvenience by way of strike action during a holiday period (the same holiday period that DPF thinks we should not have)

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  51. georgedarroch (317 comments) says:

    Funny how the Zeal 320 (Air NZ subsidiary) workers commenting here and spelling out the facts of the matter don’t get any positive ‘karma’, but the people calling them greedy liars do.

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  52. petal (706 comments) says:

    I’ll tell you ONE thing that Ansett et all delivered by providing AirNZ with competition…. strike free holidays. You could set your watch to them in the past – as you could with the Cook Straight Ferry around Xmas time.

    Funny thing, competition.

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  53. wikiriwhis business (3,998 comments) says:

    georgedarroch,,

    I ticked up Egg.

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  54. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    Gosh I do enjoy the viewpoint banter but it all gets rather depressing – your not worth it, go work elsewhere. What’s the bloody point in even trying in life? seesh all the HR speak of TEAM and Air New Zealanders really is just gobbledy-gook to try and foster some sort of loyality and common aim but whats the point when your so worthless and unimportant.

    Silly of me really to try and engage in an intellectual discussion towards the end of my holiday, at least I can go back to the 3rd world and look at people burning toxic rubbish on the side of the road and celebrate the free unregulated market.

    But god I do miss this place even if everyone is doomed to crap wages.

    :-)

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  55. wikiriwhis business (3,998 comments) says:

    “But god I do miss this place even if everyone is doomed to crap wages.”

    The q is, does our low wage economy keep our prices down comparatively in OECD terms?

    If so should we realy gripe (excluding petrol prices of course)

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  56. big bruv (13,887 comments) says:

    LeftPilot

    I have never heard the term “Air New Zealanders”, is that an industry tag?

    As for Air NZ, I can assure you that from my experience I use that airline only when I have no other option, Air NZ is certainly the last place I would look for international travel.

    My reluctance (or more accurately downright refusal) to fly Air NZ is because of..

    1 Crap service
    2 Surly cabin staff
    3 Old and incapable cabin staff
    4 The whole “we are doing you a favour” attitude that I thought had gone from our airline years ago.
    5. Filthy cabins
    6 Crap food
    7 The way Air NZ rips off its customers, a flight from Auckland to Dunedin should not be more expensive than a flight from Auckland to Sydney or Brisbane.

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  57. virtualmark (1,523 comments) says:

    Nzdan, kiwivirgin, leftpilot, egg & onehungaprincess … thanks for your contribution, and for giving us a few more facts than the mainstream media seem to have caught on to.

    Personally, I think the Air New Zealand group should be paying broadly similar money for broadly similar roles across the group. Sure, as you say, some staff (say longhaul) may need slightly different allowances, and some staff based in other countries may need different rates to reflect the norm in their country. But I can’t see why, for example, NZ-based cabin crew should receive different salaries and allowances based on which member of the group they’re employed by and which fleet they’re tasked on.

    Despite what some of the other commenters may suggest, I think most people here believe in the good old Kiwi sense of fair play. If the facts are as you’ve outlined them then I wish you well with getting a fair deal from Air New Zealand. Either that or ask Rob Fyfe if he’d like to move across to being employed by Zeal

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  58. egg (4 comments) says:

    big bruv – yes air new zealanders is an air nz term for its employees/ourselves. And i agree a flight auck to dun shouldnt be more expensive than going across the tasman! maybe its international airport costs/taxes?
    dime – i hope this doesnt scare you but zeal dont train for 6weeks like you think…its 2 and a half. We also work extremely hard and without breaks half of the time because of short turn arounds for the air raft in australia. Why should you think we get cheap airfares so that equals out our lower pay than other air nz flight attendants? the airfares maybe cheap but its no fun when you still cant afford them!

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  59. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    “Funny how the Zeal 320 (Air NZ subsidiary) workers commenting here and spelling out the facts of the matter don’t get any positive ‘karma’, but the people calling them greedy liars do.”

    Go read my last comments and tell me what about them deserved any down ticks at all. The usuals know better than that, I reckon one of the newbies is down ticking everyone who doesnt agree with them.

    I still havent got a decent response to the perfectly logical and reasonable observation that the striking workers wages may not be low, the other comparative wages may be artificially high.

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  60. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    big bruv – you bring up very valid points and this is something many ‘Legacy’ airlines grapple with. I have heard some very unpleasant things said about Lufthansa and United cabin crew, Singapore on the other hand I enjoy immensely. Will be going back to work on Qantas and haven’t flown them for many years so will be interesting.

    Air New Zealand service has been up and down over the years because they were trying to find out what was an acceptable level of service and balancing that with costs and customer expectations. This ‘live’ experimentation has done them some harm.

    Sadly as much as I admire the national airline and would love to fly for them one day they are very monopolistic in many ways. International taxes/charges do not completely account for the cost of tickets in your example. Competition and the market at play I guess – Air New Zealand are THE dominant player in NZ rightly so but they have seen off many a competitor some of it self-inflicted some of it not. The result is that the only airline flying turbo-prop (propellers on the engines) aircraft are Air New Zealand and this is the companies bread and butter.

    The Tasman is an absolute blood-bath. Air New Zealand would do well to not focus on price because they are not Jetstar (there has been some good marketing so far explaining baggage charges of said airline etc) and get the service right. Happy staff certainly helps.

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  61. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    possibly a stupid question but if zeal’s wages are that crap compared to the indusrty norm, why aren’t people working in different roles or companies,which appear to have much better wages?

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  62. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    Read “Business Stripped Bare” by Sir Richard Branson. Given his love affair with the airline industry there are quite a few segments on airline-startup, team culture, and competition. A good read. I recommend it.

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  63. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    I have not flown AirNZ long-haul for years. The last time (t’was cattle class), I arrived in Hong Kong hungry and was told by the cabin attendant on descent that I should bring my own food next time. I hope things have changed.

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  64. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    LeftPilot, I’m not going to join the crowd that’s bashing flight crew. It looks like a tough job to me and one I’m pleased not to have to do. But then I feel that way about a lot of other jobs, like teaching and medical, which is why I do what I do and not those other things. I’m sure many people would feel sympathy for what I do.

    The point is that an argument can be made for why just about any job should be paid more. Most jobs are unpleasant in some way. But sympathy is an exceedingly poor way to decide wage levels. Whose sympathy must I win for my next raise?

    There are two points here. One is measurement: beware any wage comparisons coming from either side of the argument. Comparing wages is difficult because the composition of staff, the type of routes flown by staff from each company, the positions held by staff in each company on the aircraft will not be the same. If Zeal on average employs younger or less experienced staff, or they are flown on more lower-paying routes, then a naive comparison between average levels will be misleading. And even if all those variables are controlled for, quality differences can cause distortions – differences in contractual terms, work conditions, scheduling differences, and so on.

    Two, even if after all of this Zeal is paying a lower wage, at least one of the following must be true: either Air NZ is overpaying its staff relative to the going rate in the relevant labour market, in which case why should Zeal be forced to follow suit? Or Zeal is paying less than the going rate for its staff, in which case why does anybody work for it? Zeal must offer prospective employees something like the work conditions they can get elsewhere including other industries, there is no way around it. It cannot attract suitable candidates for job vacancies if it won’t pay enough. Zeal is not big enough to depress wages in the labour market they operate in. So what is the problem EPMU is trying to solve?

    What EPMU is doing is putting the positions of Zeal staff in serious jeopardy, and not only because Zeal can’t or won’t pay 26% more, but by disrupting Air NZ at an important time Air NZ will be more reluctant to renew the Zeal contract.

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  65. reid (16,448 comments) says:

    Anyone catch this message to a House subcommittee from the pilot who landed the plane in the Hudson?

    “Americans have experienced huge economic difficulties in recent months, but airline employees have been experiencing those challenges and more for eight years,” Sullenberger said. “We’ve been hit by an economic tsunami, September 11, bankruptcies, fluctuating fuel prices, mergers, loss of pensions, and revolving door management teams who have used airline employees as an ATM.”

    Maybe some more publicity about this angle might shed some perspective on the situation, both from Air NZ’s side and from the Attendants.

    While 60k isn’t a lot, fact is, these are severely straightened times and it’s better to have a job at all than have a wage increase. It would probably be a good PR move for the unions to recognise that circumstances have changed dramatically and will continue to do so.

    Playing the predictable old record unfortunately won’t cut the mustard anymore, not even with the reef-fish, let alone the employers. It just sounds out of touch, naive and aggressive, to most people. The unions need to adjust to this.

    It’s not just a new face in town, there’s a whole new game.

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  66. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    reid I think you are using Sully’s quote out of context. Sully and his First Officer (copilot) on that flight testified to what was happening in the industry. Forgive me as this is off the cuff but he rattled off the stats of his pay decreasing over the years and now having a government gurantee rather than an actual pension. Now this is America and the industry there while it has made money had been a bit of a disaster ever since deregulation so there are some differences.

    What Sully and his FO testified was that they are seeing good people leave as terms and conditions continue to deteriorate. They essentially alluded to the long term effects of the degradation of the industry could be a different result to what happened the day they landed in the river. They were not saying they did anything extraordinary, they were quite simply doing their job but that it was becoming a job overall less attractive to people with the ‘right stuff’.

    Also by writing 60K there you are brushing aside the reality of Zeal employees salaries as they have already stated. I’m sure they would be doing cartwheels if they were on 60K.

    ben I understand market rates and I am by no means a fundamentalist lefty, I like to think I am quite pragmatic. But the question remains why do most companies see little merit in ‘fair play’ as has been mentioned or just plain treating your staff right when it will save them so much in the long run in both money and goodwill. People will suck eggs if they have to, changing jobs willy nilly is not an option for most people and they will attempt to stick things out. The benefit of the union, imperfect though they are is people can stick together and have a bit more power at the bargaining table to call a spade a spade.

    I think there is a middle ground to be found here and I hope the inequality is addressed for the benefit of our ‘shareholding’ in Air New Zealand and the New Zealanders within it.

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  67. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    “But the question remains why do most companies see little merit in ‘fair play’ as has been mentioned or just plain treating your staff right when it will save them so much in the long run in both money and goodwill.”

    No, the question doesnt remain, because it isnt so much a question as a statement of your subjective view that airline management is being “unfair”.

    And you might understand the market rates (everyone says they do) but you havent addressed that issue. Are the other guys being over paid? Is there something blocking the price mechanism in that labour market?

    Did they previously use their bargaining power to obtain higher wages that are now completely inflexible. If they did, then why should Zeal be forced to over pay someone else? How would that be fair to Zeal?

    The problem comes down to people thinking that the higher wage is the correct and fair one. You cant even fathom that maybe those wages are UNfair to the company.

    It is a frustrating mindset in New Zealand, that business and management are ALWAYS wrong. That they are ALWAYS the bad guys. Quite frankly it is an embarrassingly childish, destructive mindset. A lot of what holds NZ back is this pathetic aspect of our culture. Where did it come from?

    We know what the benefit of a union is supposed to be. But with their absurd pay demand and the threat of significant service disruption it is obvious that they are putting politics (this would never have happened with a Labour government) and grandstanding ahead of good faith negotiations.

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  68. unaha-closp (1,165 comments) says:

    LeftPilot, egg, onehungaprincess,

    One or two years ago NZ had low unemployment and a good economy and international tourism was at record levels. And you didn’t have parity. You should have had your union negotiate much better contracts then when you had all that leverage, but you didn’t even beat CPI. Your union has failed you for at least the past 4 years.

    Now the world economy has tanked, unemployment is going up and trends in air travel are at best unclear. This, your union decides, is the ideal time to take industrial action on the second busiest week of the year for a pay demand significantly in excess of what every other person in the country is figuring to get? The company is not going to meet your demands, they probably cannot afford to. This government will not intervene on your behalf. And your actions in Easter are going to piss off a lot of ordinary people. It is a really stupid time to go on strike. I cannot think of a single thing that favours you taking industrial action in this climate. Again your union seems to be failling you (seriously you should change unions, join Unite perhaps).

    Your union has failled you, it is failling you – as a union its actions are unfathomable.

    Think of the union as part of a wide political movement. As a part of a political movement your union is going to do okay out of this, because your cause (co-opted by the union) is a good one with issues – fairness, pay parity – that tug at the hearts of all NZers. This unions political movement is going to be pushing these issues (it hopes) all the way back into government. Which brings about an unfortunate, but politically logical conclusion – the best possible outcome for that political movement is to define this government as completely uncaring about these issues and the easiest way to do that is to have a SOE (or subcontractor thereof) lay-off staff who are merely asking for the fairness of pay parity. Your jobs are perhaps about to be martyred to a political cause.

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  69. unaha-closp (1,165 comments) says:

    But god I do miss this place even if everyone is doomed to crap wages.
    :-)

    LeftPilot

    This country had record levels of wage growth 2005 through to 2008. You missed out because your union is not very good.

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  70. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    Well its not a statement on my part because I am genuinely curious. I am not of the mindset that management are always wrong, there are good and bad as with employees.

    I am approaching it in a more subjective manner, I can certainly see your points although you may not see mine. I know for fact that wage inequality is a two way street and there have been many airlines in the past (not Air New Zealand) that have suffered from paying salaries obscene in the extreme.

    Management are not the bad guys, a company without management makes it difficult to have employees so everyone needs to work together. What I struggle with is why it has to be so clinical and done without a long-term view that is about more than cost-cutting

    Air New Zealand is a very small fish and a large sea, mirroring the plight of our own country (its not a bad thing). The current thinking globally has been merge or die and this is happening creating global mega-carriers although with consequent difficulties in landing rights/flag carriers etc. Air New Zealand seems to be taking the go it alone ’boutique’ strategy (while being in the largest airline alliance of course).

    Kimble what I have been trying to say is that Zeal was set up with a purpose to lower costs within the Air New Zealand Group, its original MO has changed somewhat and there is now the difficult situation of one child in the same class being treated different to the other which is a crude metaphor (does it make sense?). EPMU the problems this creates does the company no good and it no way in the spirit of its we’re all Air New Zealanders approach to feel good fuzziness.

    I have so many examples of wasted productivity due to management higher ups when I was involved in a low level management position but I type far too much as it is. Still not saying they are bad guys though.

    I want NZ to prosper, cost cutting and driving wages down so people have less spending power does not make sense to me. A long term view is required but as I have said before this does not always suit the need to return to the shareholder and companies are under no obligation to ensure the prosperity of their employees or the country they base themselves in.

    I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but its been fun nonetheless.

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  71. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    unaha-closp I had a very good union in fact but 4% of crap all sometimes the mustard does not cut! I got sick of 2 minute noodles, so I went overseas. Admittedly my situation is somewhat different to the general rule. Apart from the 2 minute noodles it seems :)

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  72. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    The EPMU isn’t doing itself any favours. If the strike goes ahead the general public won’t be too happy given the fact the country is a year into a recession already.

    Just one more reason for the Government to sell off Air New Zealand and let private enterprises get on with running their business as they see fit.

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  73. unaha-closp (1,165 comments) says:

    LeftPilot,

    No you didn’t have a good union, 4% was decidedly average. And the special circumstances of Zeal pay lagging equivalents within the industry meant that Zeal staff should have/could have got much more. The union should have tried harder when it had the chance. That chance is gone, went last year and the EPMU sat back and watched it leave. It’s a crap union.

    I want NZ to prosper, cost cutting and driving wages down so people have less spending power does not make sense to me.

    Well, yeah in theory in the “longterm”. But global credit crisis, global slowdown, global recession, global whatever is todays reality and there is less money with which to pay people. Where is the money going to come from?

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  74. MaxPower (41 comments) says:

    I started a new job at Air New Zealand as an aircraft engineer recently. From my experience so far, they treat their employees fantastically! I have been amazed at everything they do for them.

    During one of our induction courses the EPMU and another union came and talked to us to try and get us to join. The guys who were talking to us were talking about the 4.5% pay rise they recently negotiated and how great it was. They then went on to talk about how with these tough economic times ahead they wanted to push ahead with more pay rises for employees to make things easier for them.

    I felt like I was the only one in the room thinking: Hang on a sec, if we’re going through tough economic times and people are struggling, surely the company is (or will be) too. Maybe the best thing to do is not push for a pay rise now, be grateful for what we’ve got, and help take some strain off the company. That way we might not have a pay rise but we’ll be more likely to still have jobs!

    To me it seems that the union is completely oblivious to the performance of the company, and will happily put strain on it to ensure its members get more and more, regardless of how much damage they do to it. It doesn’t think that perhaps that sort of mentality might eventually cost jobs.

    I decided I couldn’t be part of such a greedy, selfish, stupid union.

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  75. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    No offence, but when you guys who work for ANZ started there didn’t you see what they were offering as pay and sign a contract and shake hands? Unless the person who hired you misrepresented the way future pay rises happened then there is little to complain about. I work for an international IT company. We have had stuff all pay rises in the last five years because while our part is doing OK downunder, other regions have not done well and there was little money for salary increases. On top of that we have been asked to take a 5% pay cut. TIghten your belts and make do.

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  76. Ferdinand (93 comments) says:

    Brian, are you claiming contracts should never be renegotiated? Because that doesn’t sound very free-market to me. I think the crew that are doing this are great. They’re up against one of the most politically powerful companies in the country and they are giving it a go for a fair wage. That takes guts. Guts you obviously don’t have if you’re going to let your employer take 5% off you just like that.

    What amazes me is your story is one of getting screwed by the employer-class but your still sticking up for them. Are you stupid?

    Those of you who claim crew should be happy with what they have got are really grasping at straws. I read your comments day after day complaining about tax, complaining about red-tape blah blah blah. Why don’t you just be grateful for what you’ve got? God knows you deserve it less than the 320 crew.

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  77. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    egg says; “I earn $28,585 annual salary before tax. Add on another $10,000 for allowances ” – and then says “We can be away for up to 5 nights away at a time”

    Can you confirm that your allowances whilst you are away are paid in cash – and free of tax ?

    and also comment on how often you are away for 5 nights if you are only getting $10k allowances?

    I suspect you are being convienient with the facts

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  78. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    Not at all, of course contracts can be renegotiated and I have done that myself. I get to work from home, get good time off in lieu at times that suit me and have a very very flexible work environment which means that for the last few years I have been able to take my kids to school and pick them up again. But you have to look at the realities. Right now is probably not the time when most companies will be able to consider pay rises. In the case of the org I work for I would suggest that there will be few takers in Aus and NZ with regards to having their pay cut. However, downside is that several hundred of us will be made redundant in the next few months.

    As to sticking up for the employer-class – I have never met one of that class. I have met people who have become senior management but as far as I know none were born into their jobs. They got there through dint of their own efforts, be that arse-licking or hard work.

    Ferdinand – You love your union and will blindly follow them no matter where they lead – are you stupid? Can’t you see that anything the EPMU does is just a tool for your president to get more political power. You are tools of the UNion-boss class (and I am sure that that is a hereditary class) and believe me – they don’t give a fuck about the workers – just making sure their own sinecure is safe. They still get paid from your money.

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  79. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    And on the face of it, if you have read the EPMU statement, then there may be some grounds to seek higher remuneration for the ZEAL staff.

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  80. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    unaha-closp I don’t work for Zeal, I am a pilot who works overseas but, I worked for a large organisation involved in the industry but focussed in others also before I left. The Pay was quite simply atrocious for the level of responsibility and tasks that I did. 4% was fine but it was the actual level of salary that was the issue for me. I did a lot of work for my salary review and highlighted the inequality of my pay grade when taken into context of other positions with the organisation and industry.

    In the end as much as I loved the job and miss it, the crap pay accelerated my desire to get into a flying position. I said in my exit interview they seriously needed to look at the salary to keep people and I think they have but it took 6 months to get a replacement for me to the detriment of the operation and they are still having difficulties as although I created an entire manual to help the person out it was a position requiring a great deal of special knowledge which will take this person some time to get familiar with.

    Unions take on a slightly different context in the aviation industry also, from a pilot perspective they are vitally important for maintaining safety. There are all sorts of industry issues where the union becomes very valuable for providing the support when companies start to abuse the intent of the legal regulations which we are bound by.

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  81. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    >> Unions take on a slightly different context in the aviation industry also, from a pilot perspective they are vitally important for maintaining safety

    Oh come on, thats what the CAA are for. The unions are simply an employee representative.

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  82. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    An interesting thread.

    The EPMU know that that is they are successful at pushing AirNZ into financial corner then there is a precedent for the Government to intervene and bail the airline out.

    They’re pushing now because it’s a National government.

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  83. LeftPilot (61 comments) says:

    Yes but the CAA provide a legal minimum and the standard operating procedures from the airline that they approve are supposed to provide a level of safety above that. Airlines can provide specifications and systems to the authority for the approval of the director that while legally sound are practically unworkable. Some Faitgue Management Systems are like this which provide for an overnight in an international destination followed by an early start and a full day of domestic flying the next.

    The effects of fatigue can be very insidious and its is one of the great dangers facing the modern pilot. Our main focus is safety, hell I would fly all day every day if I could because I love it but there have been times when the body can’t take it even though it may be ‘legally’ permisable. The pilots can discuss this with their union and then the union can take this to the company to resolve without involving the authority, rather than a hundred different people sprouting of different ideas, coming up with a cohesive solution.

    Of course if safety is jepordised and there is no response from the airline then the only course of action is to go to the authority but you let your union know so that they can support you.

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  84. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    This sounds like the EPMU Airline Rep party line.

    Take it to mediation.

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  85. egg (4 comments) says:

    patrick-they are not paid in cash but in pay 2weeks later. i didnt say we are ‘often’ away for 5nights- i said we can be. im not sure what you mean by saying you suspect i am being conveinient with the facts?

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  86. egg (4 comments) says:

    maybe another convienient fact is that we were not with the union epmu until last year so thats why they didnt do anything for us 4 years ago. We changed unions because our last one wasnt very helpful in a range of matters.

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  87. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    LeftPilot, the complaint by Sully about pilots with the ‘right stuff’ leaving the industry is interesting. We know airlines in the US are highly unionised, and we know one of the effects of unionisation is to create pressure for equal pay for employees of similar rank doing the same job. And now Sully is complaining the good pilots are leaving.

    Do you see where I’m going?

    If the effect of unionisation is to force equal pay to every pilot of similar experience in the Captain’s seat but without regard to each pilot’s performance in the job, then you’re going to (relatively) over pay underperforming pilots and under pay the pilots with the right stuff. Guess which kind of pilot is more likely to leave.

    So, without knowing the details of the industry, I tentatively count Sully’s testimony as a strike against equal pay.

    Again, I’m not bagging flight crew at all, its a tough job, but in any industry forcing all players to meet the average pay of the dominant airline either because of measurement error or because that airline is overly generous may be very unhelpful.

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  88. unaha-closp (1,165 comments) says:

    LeftPilot

    You did well by getting out and taking another job. Got yourself more money, but that was then. In todays climate with the downturn would it be so easy to walk into a job?

    http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/mar/25/1b25bizbrfs21324/?zIndex=72107

    Maybe, maybe not.

    The time to move on pay demands was last year, the year before or the year before that when the airlines had money to pay for it, but it didn’t happen.

    Unions take on a slightly different context in the aviation industry also, from a pilot perspective they are vitally important for maintaining safety.

    That is one part of their role and if they are doing that fine (their fees have not been a complete waste of money), but they are also meant to get a good pay deal for their members. They sat on their hands through 3 years of being in the best possible position to use industial action to achieve pay parity for Zeal 320 staff. But now that the staffs bargaining position has become as bad as it could be (without Zeal 320 going bust) the union recommends confrontation!?!

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