General Debate 24 April 2009

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Chthoniid

It’s Friday morning, so that means a coffee and a photo…

http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p890195346-5.jpg

Now, back to the regaulr mayhem 😀
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April 24, 2009 8:57am
Ryan Sproull

That’s fucking awesome, Chthon.
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April 24, 2009 8:59am
democracymum

Great Photo Chthoniid
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April 24, 2009 9:04am
barry

Im am awaiting impatiently for the groaners and the moaners to start wailing about not being able to earn money tomorrow morning and not being able to go shopping etc. – as they all did a couple of weeks ago.

Im sure some will still be on therapy for the restrictions they had over easter and with any luck another half day of the same stuff will hopefully push them over the edge…………
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April 24, 2009 9:05am
Grant Michael McKenna

A half day makes more sense than a full day of no trading. It gives us time to celebrate or commemorate as appropriate for the event, and then enables us to enjoy the rest of the holiday. If workers want time off they should take leave.
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April 24, 2009 9:09am
MyNameIsJack

And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
And I watch my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving old dreams of past glory
And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, “What are they marching for?”
And I ask myself the same question

Eric Bogle
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April 24, 2009 9:18am
Brian Smaller

MNIJ – comrades in this sense means soldiers. Not your fellow lefty travellers.
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April 24, 2009 9:21am
davidp

Barry>Im am awaiting impatiently for the groaners and the moaners to start wailing about not being able to earn money tomorrow morning and not being able to go shopping etc. – as they all did a couple of weeks ago.

There is a difference between being forced to stop work for half a day to remember men and women who have given their lives for NZ and the freedoms we enjoy. And being forced to stop work for 3.5days because god-botherers, unionists, and Labour politicians think you should be worshiping Jesus who they think had supernatural powers.
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April 24, 2009 9:22am
side show bob

Chthoniid, have a nest of these in the one of the hay sheds. They live underground usually under round bails in the soft soil on hay shed floor. Pretty harmless creatures not like bloody wasps.
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April 24, 2009 9:27am
Neil

One great thing about ANZAC day this year is the disappearance of the hypocritical interest of the Great Leader . No regular running to European grave areas or to Galipoli pretending to be the saviour of the RSA.
How she got away with that is amazing. The NZ govt jets could take Helen and her kaumatua mates and the maori singers.No room for elderly war veterans. They didn’t fit the agenda of the anti-patriotic needs of Labour.
Hypocrisy knew few bounds in the last Labor government. They didn’t care for the ordinary people, they wanted to look after the beautiful potters,weavers and has been activists. Now this government needs to rid people like Noonan and de Bres from the public teat.
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April 24, 2009 9:38am
goodgod

Both christianity and the debarcle of gallipoli have had an large influence on what NZ has become. Who gives a fuck about splitting hairs over which is more important. What is important to remember is that ninety four years ago tomorrow morning, just before dawn, our troops landed on the wrong beach and started into 8 months of hell over a distance of 2 square kilometers. The result of that campaign and the continuing world war touched almost every family in NZ and changed the way NZders viewed themselves in the world.
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April 24, 2009 9:42am
CraigM

“What are they marching for?”

To honour their friends and comrades who fell fighting at their side
To honour those who survived the war but came home to cowards who spat on them
So that the young can ask such questions and learn the lessons of history
To honour the brave men they fought against and have since realised were just ordinary men too
To honour those ordinary men thrust into extraordinary situations that exist only in our nightmares

Me? I go to the parade so that I can remember the sacrifices these people made, that allow me to live the life I have.
I go to remind myself how fortunate I have been not to have had to go to war, as they did.

For that, they have my eternal respect & gratitude.
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April 24, 2009 9:44am
Jack5

Today’s offering for the Leftists who are moaning about London police tactics during the G20 meeting in London:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/5199325/Chinese-police-training-manual-offers-tips-on-the-best-way-to-beat-up-offenders.html
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April 24, 2009 9:45am
big bruv

MNIJ

There are trolls and then there are mind numbingly ignorant c**ts like you who politicise the actions of men who fought for freedom and fought in wars they had no part in starting.

I despise you with a passion normally reserved for kiddie fuckers and those who abuse animals, I wish you nothing but the very worst of luck and ill health.
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April 24, 2009 9:47am
Hagues

davidp “There is a difference between being forced to stop work for half a day to remember men and women who have given their lives for NZ and the freedoms we enjoy. And being forced to stop work for 3.5days because god-botherers, unionists, and Labour politicians think you should be worshiping Jesus who they think had supernatural powers.”

Easter is also about remembering someone who has given their life for New Zealanders, but even more so the whole world. So its much the same 🙂
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April 24, 2009 9:57am
gazzmaniac

You think there is a “boy” racer problem in New Zealand. On the Gold Coast they have a 300 club:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25377467-952,00.html

And apparrently they aren’t kids either, they are businessmen who have made money. And if it happened in New Zealand I highly doubt their cars would end up crushed, because they are not kids.
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April 24, 2009 10:05am
MyNameIsJack

Actually hagues and bigbruv – you are both wrong. I did not ask for the soldiers of or jesus to die for me. I wasn’t even born then. Isn’t a bit presumptuous?

bigbruv, ww1 was NEVER about fighting for freedom. It was about trade and influence, nothing more nothing less. It was a futile, pointless war and a horrendous waste of life. Go read some history. You may find that those who started and prolonged it were as bad as, if not worse than, kiddyfuckers.

Had Germany prevailed in WW1, how different would life in NZ be? Very little change at all i think you’d find. And it was the unsatisfactory conclusion to WW1 that laid the seeds for WW2 The Sequel.
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April 24, 2009 10:15am
MyNameIsJack

A few more words from Eric Bogle.

And I can’t help but wonder, no Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you “The Cause?”
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.
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April 24, 2009 10:24am
big bruv

MNIJ

“I did not ask for the soldiers of or jesus to die for me. I wasn’t even born then. Isn’t a bit presumptuous?”

Who said anything about a mythical god you ignorant c**t?, like all pinko’s you apply the knowledge and opinions of today to action taken nearly one hundred years ago.
I do not attend dawn parade every year to remember the politicians who sent men to war, I go to honour and remember men who did as they were told and mostly did it voluntarily because of a cause they believed in, now you and I can debate that cause and in some cases I might agree with you however it is indescribably ignorant of you to dishonour those men and their actions simply because of your political beliefs.
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April 24, 2009 10:25am
CraigM

MNIJ – how someone could miss the point of ANZAC day so much and do it so loudly, is beyond me.
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April 24, 2009 10:38am
bearhunter

MNIJ – how about the last verse of the Pubsinger’s Lament, written by an unnamed Scotsman who was sick of singing that song?

O Willie McBride, why the hell did you die?
The trouble you’d saved had you come back alive,
And got a good job or signed on the broo,
So we’d not have to listen to songs about you!
Now it’s the last verse, and I’m glad that you’re dead,
With the green fields of France piled up over your head,
For the trouble you’ve caused since the day that you died,
Oh, shooting’s too good for you, Willie McBride.
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April 24, 2009 10:39am
infused

Joke for the day:

A Mother had 3 virgin daughters.

They were all getting married within a short time period.
Because Mom was a bit worried about how their sex life would get started, she made them all promise to send a postcard from the honeymoon with a few words on how marital sex felt.

The first girl sent a card from Hawaii two days after the wedding.
The card said nothing but: ‘Nescafe’

Mom was puzzled at first, but then went to her kitchen and got out the Nescafe jar.

It said: ‘Good till the last drop’.

Mom blushed, but was pleased for her daughter.

The second girl sent the card from Vermont a week after the wedding,
and the card read: ‘Rothmans’

Mom now knew to go straight to her husband’s cigarettes,
and she read from the pack: ‘Extra Long. King Size’

She was again slightly embarrassed but still happy for her daughter.

The third girl left for her honeymoon in Auckland, New Zealand.
Mom waited for a week, nothing. Another week went by and still nothing…
Then after a whole month, a card finally arrived.

Written on it with shaky handwriting were the words ‘Air New Zealand’

Mom took out her latest YOU magazine, flipped through the pages fearing the worst, and finally found the ad for Air NZ.

The ad said:
‘Ten times a day, seven days a week, both ways.’
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April 24, 2009 10:48am
lofty

Thanks to craigM & BB for expressing my thoughts so well.
I am beside myself over the comments by that worthless human MNIJ.
I don’t care if he/she is just shit stirring or if he/she actually believes the crap that pours forth.
I don’t care that he/she is just a flamewar troll.
He/she is offensive in the extreme and deserves to banned for life from this blog, and if were up to me that is what would happen.
It’s my dad & thousands like him, you are talking about MNIJ, unforgivable.
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April 24, 2009 10:49am
MyNameIsJack

Oh get the fuck over yourself lofty. What did your dad do in the war (which war) that makes him such a hero?

I said it once, and I’ll say it again ww1 was NEVER about fighting for freedom. It was about trade and influence, nothing more nothing less. It was a futile, pointless war and a horrendous waste of life.

And no one seems capable of challenging this.

Craig, even in primary school I never “got” this anzac day myth and bullshit.
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April 24, 2009 11:00am
MyNameIsJack

bigbruv, before prematurely ejaculating shit like “Who said anything about a mythical god you ignorant c**t?, “get some reading comprehension lessons. Hagues introduced Jesus, I responded.
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April 24, 2009 11:01am
Chthoniid

Ryan Sproull, democracymum & side show bob-

Thanks-
Yeah, bumble-bees present less “photographic” challenges than wasps.
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April 24, 2009 11:11am
lofty

MNIJ = pathetic, vile, pampered, offensive, worthless contributer.
Bludged off mum & dad all his/her young life.
Ungrateful wretch.

I got over myself a long time ago MNIJ, (about 50 years ago as a matter of fact).. you have yet to learn how.

You just have not got it have you MNIJ? Stating the obvious, e.g. WW1 was all about trade etc, does not dimish the seriousness & sacrifice.

WW2 About facism etc

Malaysia about defeating communisim

Vietnam about defeating communism
I am picking if you were around when the Vietnam vets returned you would have spat on them like your ex dear leader and her ilk.
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April 24, 2009 11:39am
paradigm

Speaking of racist relations comissioner de Bres, what is his basis for trying to influence government foreign policy by attending a conference NZ is officially boycotting? Moreover what gives him the right to attack US-NZ relations while in attendance? Surely it is the place of the currently elected government rather than an appointee of a former government to dictate foreign policy. At this point it might be useful to look up what the human rights commission is supposed to do (courtesy of Human Rights Act 1993):

(a) to advocate and promote respect for, and an understanding and appreciation of, human rights in New Zealand society; and
(b) to encourage the maintenance and development of harmonious relations between individuals and among the diverse groups in New Zealand society.

Note “in New Zealand society” would seem to exclude an exclusively foreign audience, so giving a speech to a foreign assembly with no NZ party in attendance is a bit iffy. Moreover it is completely outside his role and thus inappropriate to speculate on non-race based motives for NZ to be pulling out of the UN conference, let alone try to put a hatchet in our international relations efforts by making an antiamerican slur. Rather, isn’t about time National swings the hatchet on him?
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April 24, 2009 11:54am
Hagues

MyNameIsJack “get some reading comprehension lessons. Hagues introduced Jesus, I responded.”

Maybe it is you who needs the reading lessions. Clearly in my post I quoted davidp who said “because god-botherers, unionists, and Labour politicians think you should be worshiping Jesus who they think had supernatural powers” and I responded to that, so no I didn’t introduce Jesus into the topic.
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April 24, 2009 11:57am
MyNameIsJack

Hagues, these are the words of yours I was addressing “Easter is also about remembering someone who has given their life for New Zealanders, but even more so the whole world. So its much the same ” Comprehend?
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April 24, 2009 12:06pm
paradigm

Jack you ‘tard. Bringing up the causes of WW1 is irrelevant to Anzac day. Anzac day is not about celebrating military success. It is not about celebrating anything. It is about remembering those who were told by their government that they were needed to defend the country, who then went to defend the country, and who died defending the country. If you think WW1 or any other war was unjustified, you attack the leaders of the time, not the soldiers. Moreover, if you think that a day of rememberance for the many who DIED encourages further war, you must have spent too much time in the car with philu. With the windows wound up.
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April 24, 2009 12:10pm
Hagues

MNIJ I know what words of mine you are addressing, but those words did not INTRODUCE Jesus into the topic which is what you claimed.
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April 24, 2009 12:11pm
MyNameIsJack

paradigm, show me where I have attacked the soldiers.

“It is about remembering those who were told by their government that they were needed to defend the country, who then went to defend the country, and who died defending the country” which then makes it a legitimate topic for the discussion of the causes of the war(s) and seeking ways to avoid further death and suffering.
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April 24, 2009 12:26pm
MyNameIsJack

lofty (144) 2 1 Says:

April 24th, 2009 at 11:39 am
MNIJ = pathetic, vile, pampered, offensive, worthless contributer.
Bludged off mum & dad all his/her young life.
Ungrateful wretch.

Thanks for the gratuitous insults, shows you can’t think about the topic at hand and respond with reason.

I got over myself a long time ago MNIJ, (about 50 years ago as a matter of fact).. you have yet to learn how.

You just have not got it have you MNIJ? Stating the obvious, e.g. WW1 was all about trade etc, does not dimish the seriousness & sacrifice.

No, but then i never said it did. But it does show the stupidity AND that, contrary to propaganda, it was never about freedom.

WW2 About facism etc

Which arose as a direct result of the aftermath of WW1

Malaysia about defeating communisim

Vietnam about defeating communism

Crap, more propaganda you swallowed.

malaysia was about Britain trying to hold on to remnants of its colonial glory while Vietnam was America trying to build its. Just waht would have happened if we lost in Vietnam?

I am picking if you were around when the Vietnam vets returned you would have spat on them like your ex dear leader and her ilk.

Ah, another unfounded assumption.

Yes, I was around at the time. No, I didn’t spit on anyone. I feel sorrow for them, not contempt. I reserve the contempt for the leaders and their followers, and if that includes the soldiers …
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April 24, 2009 12:35pm
baxter

Paradigm:::::::::::::Thanks for quoting the function of the office from the Act:::::::::Clearly this Commission is a touchy, feely totally unnecessary extravagant impost on taxpayers. All members of parliament and essential public servants should include these worthy goals within their existing duties.
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April 24, 2009 12:43pm
big bruv

Jack

There is a world of difference between attacking soldiers and attacking or debating the merits of past wars, ANZAC day is to remember those who fought and those who died, there are 364 other days in a year when we can discuss the reasons why those wars were fought., you show an appalling lack of respect.

What you have said this morning is indefensible and highly insulting, mind you, given that Labour at least have had one leader who was to gutless to fight in the war I am not surprised.
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April 24, 2009 12:48pm
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2360352/Murder-stories-at-Bain-school

do the defence have anything to show it was more likely Robin than David or even a greater chance than 1 in say 100??? Seriously, anything???
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April 24, 2009 1:08pm
dime

wow… jack really is a dick.
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April 24, 2009 1:11pm
Murray

Many years ago an ancestor of mine decided serving in a Highland regiment in India during the mutiny wasn’t such a bag of giggles and got on a ship going back to Scotland, it ended up in port Chalmers. Since then my family have served in every war this country has every jumped into including my great great grandfather being something of a local figure as a Captain in the Manawatu Mounted and CO of the Palmerston North Guard. One of my great great uncles was among those invited to attend a little shooting match in South Africa and rode in the Bush Veldt Carbineers, another great great uncles won two MM’s, one for being sent on a recon with his platoon and capturing a German held village because recon was too gay for him and then a second for stopping a German assault battalion by manning a vickers alone while the rest of the line suddenly found they’d left the gas on back home (Audie Murphy got an MOH for the same stunt in the following war), four of my great uncles served on Gallipoli and one climbed Chunuk Bair one morning in company with Te Hokowhitu a Tu as both their battalions had been reduced to less than half strength. One of them fought in every New Zealand campaign during both world wars (excluding the Pacific) without a scratch – you can see a picture of him in Khaki Allblacks, Capt Gyton. My great uncle Len spent a couple of years shovelling sand out of holes in North Africa and ended up in a Sherman in Trieste playing Mexican standoff with Titos boys before ending up in Japan as part of J force and experience leading him to mutter darkly from time to time that two was a good start, not a finish. He went on to be a teacher and every now and then took “a turn” and needed to lay down in a dark room for a bit. My uncle Campbell (Jim) ended up from 5 years doing the NZ Government sponsored Med Tour with an inability to stay at home for more than a couple of weeks and a really crap sense of direction leading him to spend his days roaming the country visiting relatives. My grandfather was in North Africa until he was busted stealing eggs from the officer’s mess and selling them to Arabs, a tradition continued by my brother in Gaza more recently. He was sent home shortly before Rommel decided he’d really like to capture some small irrelevant railway station and some shooting took place. My grand mother meanwhile knitted 234 seaman’s jerseys for sailors as part of her war effort in a town that started with 500 residents and ended the war with about 200 due to those who sons weren’t coming back gave up and moved into town. She knitted #235 for my father when he joined the navy at 15 at its now the basket lining for my cat. My father’s service covered the Suez, Korea, and the Malayan ‘Emergency the Indonesian “Confrontation”, Viet Nam and a few other things that you’ve never heard of and don’t care about but lead to a high mortality rate amongst my siblings and the crew of the Pukaki. I did my 12 years and was never shot at on purpose (I’m assuming) although I was the only one of us to ever actually be wounded with a bullet to the forehead on the bounce and being run over by a little tank.

Genocide Jack is completely right, he didn’t ask for any of this and he is not beholden to any of us.

We all did it for good decent people who we think deserve the rights and privileges of free people as New Zealanders. It’s also nice that for one morning each year we don’t get spat on for being in uniform and the cheap beer is a plus.

You’re welcome.

Except you jackboot, you can esad as far as my clan are concerned.
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April 24, 2009 1:17pm
lofty

MNIJ…just so you know, my dad is a hero just cause he was my dad and did his bit.
I wonder if you regard your dad as a hero, I am guessing not.

Oh by the way MNIJ not only am I over myself, I am very muchly over you .
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April 24, 2009 1:18pm
jarbury

Regarding the Bain trial…

Has anyone considered that Robin killed all the other family members, David came home and saw what he’d done, picked up the gun and shot Robin?

It would explain quite a bit….
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April 24, 2009 1:20pm
big bruv

jarbury

NO, all the evidence points towards the man who is accused of the killing, I hope the bastard rots in prison for the rest of his life.
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April 24, 2009 1:25pm
MyNameIsJack

lofty (145) Vote: 0 0 Says:

April 24th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
MNIJ…just so you know, my dad is a hero just cause he was my dad and did his bit.
I wonder if you regard your dad as a hero, I am guessing not.

No, I don’t regard my dad as a “hero”. Why should I?

While your dad was “doing his bit” I wonder if he ever thought of where his uniforms came from, his weapons and his food? How his family at home were being fed?

Maybe because my dad, and a lot of young men like him, were working unprotected and in the most appalling danger to make sure your dad and all the other “heros” got their uniforsms, their bullets and their fags.
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April 24, 2009 1:29pm
lofty

jarbury,
I have considered it, and discussed it with others.
My reckoning is no, based on what I have heard and gleaned. Robin did not do it, David certainly did.
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April 24, 2009 1:30pm
lofty

MNIJ
your parents must be so proud of you!
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April 24, 2009 1:32pm
thedavincimode

yes Dime he is.

People, people. Why do you let MNIJerk get under your skin. He’s a dyfunctional selfish and self-centered loser who lives his life with a chip on his shoulder because of a perceived injustice aginst him or his. You won’t ever change his opinion. As he said himself: “I did not ask for the soldiers of or jesus to die for me. I wasn’t even born then.” That’s a very revealing comment that pretty well sums him up and provides and a rather unfortunate insight into the way he thinks.

He won’t ever understand the distinction between criticising a government’s decision, and gratuitously insulting the individuals that made a sacrifice because of that decision, or those that, appreciating the disticntion, choose to honour the sacrifice. He will continue on with his sad-arsed pointless existence and never achieve anything. He will continue to reconcile his own failures and failings by reinforcing the notion that the world is against him or everyone else is wrong and he alone is right. And because of that, he will continue to envy the success of others, whatever form it may take, and in the process of justifying his own lack of success, he will get progressively more introverted and embittered. He is a sad waste of space. Ignore him.
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April 24, 2009 1:34pm
lofty

That sums it all up very nicely davinci.
He/she is an O2 stealer.
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April 24, 2009 1:41pm
MyNameIsJack

lofty (147) Vote: 0 0 Says:

April 24th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
MNIJ
your parents must be so proud of you!

Mum still is, dad was, up until he died recently.

thedavincimode (166) Vote: 0 1 Says:

April 24th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

He won’t ever understand the distinction between criticising a government’s decision, and gratuitously insulting the individuals that made a sacrifice because of that decision,

Come on, where’s this supposed insult?

And being cannon fodder does not equate with making a sacrifice; it equates with stupidity.

The IWW put it best during WW1 – “a bayonet is a weapon with a worker at each end”.

Killing each other so that rich people can stay rich? Lunacy!
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April 24, 2009 1:41pm
MyNameIsJack

ooooh Muzza, you great big hero you!
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April 24, 2009 1:42pm
Murray M

If there are people out there who think remembering Anzac day is historical and irrelevant, then let’s apply the same logic to the fucking Treaty.
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April 24, 2009 1:47pm
gd

MNIJ

My Grandfather Boer war Sth Africa plus WWI Somme Paschendale mustard gas died late 194os after years of suffering effects.

Father WW2 1939 1945 21st Battalion Nth Africa Italy.

Have some respect you Socialist cretin
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April 24, 2009 1:48pm
MyNameIsJack

Nice one Murray M, not to be confused with Murray W the banker.

I agree.

Here’s a great way to celebrate ANZAC day:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25376243-663,00.html
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April 24, 2009 1:49pm
MyNameIsJack

gd – why should I be forced to show respect to some long dead people who fought in long forgotten, not to mention, pointless wars?

Perhaps if you think I am a socialist, you can blame my father. He raised me with the ideals of love, peace, sharing and not taking more than you need. And without my father, and men like him, your father would have had no uniform, no bullets, no fags, nothing. And yet my father worked from 1940 – 1945 with no weapon, and rarely any protection from the enemy.

He never marched on ANZAC day. He didn’t get any medals. In fact he and his workmates got very little recognition
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April 24, 2009 1:53pm
dime

“The Government should hold a referendum to find out what Aucklanders think about the proposed super city before making them pay for changes, Labour says”

BAHAHAHAHA yea cause Labour were the champions of the referendum during their 9 years of carnage!!!

How bout this Mr Goff “there isnt enough time to include the referendum ever.. we need to verify signatures and then do some paperwork”

oh yeah.. just incase anyone forgot. Goff wanted to make it legal for your 12 year old daughter/sister/niece/granddaughter to have sex.
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April 24, 2009 1:57pm
Banana Llama

My Grandfather on my fathers side was an Italian by birth MNIJ he served with the commonwealth in Africa and Italy judging by the post cards, i’m pretty sure he knew what he was fighting for.
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April 24, 2009 1:58pm
big bruv

Jack

What a pity your father did not die nine months prior to your birth.
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April 24, 2009 1:59pm
lofty

BAHAHAHAHA yea cause Labour were the champions of the referendum during their 9 years of carnage!!!

If I could give you multiple positive karma dime I would.
Just another example of goff’s desperation, and double standards.

trevor mallard…I know you will be reading this, but not so sure of your “leader”
pass on to him that he aint fooling anyone, and he is a hypocritcal attention seeker, just like your ex dear leader eh!

Does this mean there has been no real change? I sure hope so, because if so you and the rest of your duplicious liars are on the outer for a long time….wooohooo.

By the way trev me old tosser, you are being very quiet after you made a fool of yourself in Palmy….hahaha
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April 24, 2009 2:10pm
big bruv

Another excellent contribution from Dr Michael Bassett.

The Left’s Dirty Tricks 15/04/2009

Over the last few weeks evidence has seeped out that Britain’s Labour Party had started a Dirty Tricks Department within ministerial offices to smear political opponents. Gordon Brown’s most trusted spin doctor, Damian McBride, has been forced to resign because of the part he played in putting together a series of smears on a website against the Conservatives’ leader, David Cameron, and the Tories’ Finance spokesman. Today comes the news that Brown has asked the head of Britain’s civil service to tighten up a code of conduct governing ministerial advisers whose salaries are paid by the taxpayer. Brown says that they should sign a contract acknowledging that if caught “disseminating inappropriate material they will automatically lose their jobs”.

It’s high time we had such a system in place in New Zealand. Those with memories might recall the parade of dirty tricks used by the beleaguered Labour Party prior to the last election to smear their opponents. First there was the hacking into Don Brash’s computer and the stealing of a selection of emails that found their way to the egregious Nicky Hager. He spun a tissue of fabrications worthy of the Holocaust denier, David Irving. Labour’s leaders had a very good idea about who was the culprit, but they sat back and smiled while calumny was heaped on the opposition leader, and Hager made money from the book he published based on stolen goods. For myself, I have always believed that someone inside the Beehive was responsible for stealing those emails in the first place. The Police’s investigation was scandalously conducted and found nothing. Then there was the establishment of a blog called The Standard. The Labour Party ran a weekly newspaper from 1934 to 1959 that published political material. It was subject to the normal journalistic standards of the time. But the new blog version made no pretence at following even the reduced journalistic standards of modern times. Registered to an address in Helen Clark’s electorate, and operating out of the Beehive under ministerial supervision, it gave an airing to innuendo and false stories that ministers hoped might get picked up by the mainstream media. They often did. Indeed, several gullible reporters happily took their leads from the Beehive’s dirty tricks brigade. I saw an email sent by Ruth Dyson that had clearly been prepared by her apparatchiks. It denounced me, and urged her mailing list to protest to a newspaper that was running my columns. I’m told that the apparatchiks watched the news, made it their business to pick up material, true or false, and fed lines to people like Brian Rudman of the Herald. The same dirty tricksters fabricated a story about John Key that had Mike Williams rushing to Melbourne to check records, only to return empty handed, and red-faced, just before the election.

The significance of all this is that New Zealand’s Labour dirty tricksters were all on the public payroll. They operated mostly from the Prime Minister’s Office where Helen Clark appeared to operate a kind of training school for younger versions of herself: people with degrees and absolutely no experience of life. Graduates of student politics, they regarded possession of the reins of power as some form of divine right. Mostly in their 20s, they were designated “advisers to the Prime Minister”. Since they had little general knowledge, and consequently nothing to advise with, they were paid good money, and put to work on dirty tricks. Several are now on Labour’s backbenches, where they are still being supported by the taxpayer. The Standard still exists, but it has been hollowed out by the end of the Beehive’s funding. It would be interesting to know whether, in its current withered state, it is being funded from Phil Goff’s office.

It’s a fair guess that if Gordon Brown’s proposed code of conduct had been operating, and there had been a robust media in New Zealand, the dirty tricksters of the last three or four years would not have had such fun with taxpayers’ money.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the current National-led government won’t eventually resort to such tricks. After all, Robert Muldoon had a dirty tricks department before he came to office in 1975, although it wasn’t on the public payroll. It is time for the Prime Minister to ask the Chair of the State Services Commission to implement a similar system to what will now operate in London. We cannot rely on our supine media to flush out any party’s dirty tricks, especially Labour’s.
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April 24, 2009 2:19pm
Angus

Good link bb, Michael Bassett is a top bloke.

. . would’ve been a good Tui billboard – “We are independent centre-left bloggers with no affiliation whatsoever to the NZ Labour Party”

. . or the Lyn Prentice classic -“What I saw when I looked at the footage was a tight crowded situation and someone getting knocked by a megaphone when Len moved.”

Yeah, Len moved alright ! (Could knock a baseball clear out of Wrigley Field that boy)
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April 24, 2009 2:48pm
Murray

“Respect” is a two way street. take a look at your karma and think about it.
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April 24, 2009 3:02pm
starboard

MNIJ really is a well balanced chap..he’s got a chip on both shoulders…
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April 24, 2009 3:40pm
MyNameIsJack

and starboard is incapable of making an on topic point.
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April 24, 2009 3:41pm
tocs

I was wondering if anyone could answer couple question. Why do we have national debt? Why does the government need to borrow money? I understand it is to do with balancing the trade deficit, net importers ra ra, but what exactly does the government import except for goods associated with defense spending?

Say we import bananas. New World et al pay the producers as they can cover the distribution costs, currency exchange and some profit for themselves by selling them to the NZ public. As well Mobil would pay whoever for the oil and we pay Mobil, again a private transaction which doesn’t involve the government. Given trade is done privately in this vain(I don’t know of any govt retail or wholesale operations) what has the govt got to do with trade deficit?

Presumably if private enterprise can’t afford to import goods then they don’t, letting the the market tend balance of trade to equilibrium. Given defense spending isn’t huge only education, health, social welfare, law and order are left. I guess some subsidised pharmaceuticals and a few police cars incur costs but the rest are just wages.

It seem inefficient to borrow money at interest to pay for public services, isn’t that what our taxes are for? Should we need additional finances to cover these services isn’t it logical to increase taxes, however grudgingly, rather than defer payment incurring the interest which comes with a foreign loan? Would appreciate if anybody could fill in the gaps for me or point me in the direction of a few answers. Thanks in advance.
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April 24, 2009 4:01pm
david

Did anyone else hear that the ultimate idiot (G Palmer of the Law Commission) is proposing the idea that the price of booze should go up as one method of curbing alcohol abuse.

His rationale/justification?:

That the 20% of the population who drink 80% of the booze can afford to pay more and it won’t affect the man in the street (the 80% who only drink 20% of the grog)

Talk about bringing an income redistribution approach to the table. What a socialist f***ker.

Leave my pleasures alone asshole.

Of course to be fair he may have been suggesting that the 80% will not be able to afford the booze and that is a good thing ‘cos they are the ones that are doing the abuse.

But it still sounds all wrong, reeks of small minded jealousy and appears to be something that would be proposed by the left as a way of getting something over the financially successful.

Perhaps on the other hand no-one has told him that theer has been a change of Government.

Bugger, its friday I’m off for a beer
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April 24, 2009 4:45pm
Rex Widerstrom

big bruv:

Thanks for raising an important issue. I emailed DPF ther details of the McBride affair last week, but I guess he considered it not particularly relevant to NZ’s situation. But as you’ve highlighted, it most certainly is.

In the mid-90s Gilbert Myles and I drafted a comprehensive Bill based in part on the UK’s establishment of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. (The first UK appointee was a woman who’d brook no nonsense and investigated and commented without fear or favour. Of course she was quickly replaced and the legiuslation watered down). The Bill would have provided a mechanism for whistleblowers and the public to complain about, and have investigated, the actions of MPs. It would also have set more stringent rules round their behaviour and that of their staff, inside and outside the Parliament.

Gilbert took it to the NZ First caucus who universally praised its intent and its drafting (Gilbert had personally paid for senior lawyers to write the Bill to give effect to our intent) but universally voted against allowing it to go forward into the Private Members Bill ballot (no surprises there, then).

The point being, if any party truly wants to help bring an end to this kind of behaviour (and that includes, of course, National) then a Bill has already been drafted which would at least provide the basis for such a measure. I can’t speak for Gilbert but I know I’d be happy to have the draft given to any party which committed to trying to pass the measures it contains.

Those interested in reading further might find these links useful. Details of the scandal. This wasn’t a political smear being planned, it was a personal one. McBride was getting set to peddle a rumour that Opposition Leader Cameron may have suffered from a sexually transmitted disease and to hint at the existence of embarrassing photographs of Shadow Chancellor Osborne from his university days.

For those interested in a debate on the issue, go here and here. There’s excellent comment in the Telegraph here and here.
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April 24, 2009 5:09pm
wreck1080

To those who think of tagging as a minor crime…

Taggers have gone on a spray- painting rampage in the Tau ranga suburb of Welcome Bay _ spraying everything from fences to parked cars.

Across the road, another neighbour who did not wish to be named, said she was “horri fied’ at what had happened.

Her fence and an outside sign had been tagged _ also for the first time.

“That they could be so blatant and come along in the middle of the night and do things to you while you are are asleep … It makes me feel uneasy,’ she said.

Another resident of Osprey Drive, Brooke Kim, had both her garage door and the brick surrounding it tagged.

She moved to New Zealand 18 months ago from Korea with her husband Kevin Song and two children aged 10 and 7, expecting it to be a safe country.

“Last night I was a little scared in here … I don’t think it’s very safe anymore,’ she said.
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April 24, 2009 5:39pm
wikiriwhis business

I’ve been inspired for ANZAC.

I’m going to commission an artist to paint a spitfire flying over the Maori Battalion as they wave to each other with a caption saying ‘moving forward together’.

Two of the best symbols of ww2. Esp for Kiwi’s

ANZAC is about ww1 but I think the imagery will be powerful.

Anyone catch the latest Top Gear mag with May going up in a Spit. Some great prose in it.
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April 24, 2009 6:01pm
starboard

Yeah who pulled G Palmer out of the ground for his tight arsed lefty opinion on piss drinking.. the shandy drinking old corpse , look at the fuck ups with the RMA that he wrote..he’s such a stiff…away with you !
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April 24, 2009 6:16pm
Murray M

MNIJ – I would have replied to your 1.49pm post but I have been working hard, I wonder what you have been doing? You have pissed off someone who has served overseas. You can’t get away with your disrespectful shit anymore. The bitch has fucked off to NY. Don’t, I repeat don’t, ever disrespect me, or men and women who have served overseas ever again.
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April 24, 2009 7:51pm
Chthoniid

I was wondering if anyone could answer couple question. Why do we have national debt? Why does the government need to borrow money? I understand it is to do with balancing the trade deficit, net importers ra ra, but what exactly does the government import except for goods associated with defense spending?

Some of the National debt is an overhang from the 70s and 80s when there was a lot of borrowing to cover budget deficits (averaging around 7% of GDP). There was a concerted effort to repay a lot of that during the 90s under Birch, and the programme was sustained by Cullen. While we have at times had a postive net balance in the public accounts, liquidating these assets to pay off all the debt (and commensurate reductions in spending in other areas) hasn’t occurred. Largely because debt servicing costs were no longer impacting on expenditure plans. Some debt is thus desirable becuase it keeps the crown accounts relatively ‘liquid’.

Both the public sector and the private sector have contributed to the trade deficits. The Crown also spends money on computers for schools, petrol for cars, ministerial limousines, materials for roading or bridging projects etc. Albeit one could also make the case that the policy of creating a dual economy (hot domestic, sick export) has greatly exacerbated the deficit.

Now, if the trade balance was the only factor then the NZD would fall dramatically to try to restore balance. This is where capital account comes in. We can keep buying stuff from overseas using forex, if foreigners lend us the forex. The conflict between the RB and the Government’s fiscal policy meant we had high interest rates. For say, Japanese households looking for returns better than the near zero real returns in Japan, NZ was a good place. So they were willing to buy NZ financial assets (letting us have forex) and this kept the demand for NZD high. Alas, this weakened the export sector.

So the trade deficit is a consequence of both private and public spending, combined with a conflict between the RBNZ and the Govt that kept interest rates high, NZD over-valued and a sickening trade balance (requiring us to borrow the forex, but with the high interest rates, doable).
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April 24, 2009 7:59pm
Glutaemus Maximus

This could have happened here!!

BBC announcer:

“In place of the scheduled episode of Eastenders we are now taking you live over to 10 Downing Street for en emergency address by the Prime Minister Gordon Brown”

(fade to Brown)

My fellow Britons

(sideways jaw movement)

It is with great regret that today I have been forced to take the decision to suspend democracy in this land and have assumed the role of Protector Of The People

(nervous grin at camera).

As you all know we live in troubled times, with the permanent fear of Muslim suicide bombers hanging over us and with the prospect of our savings and our homes losing more and more of their value.

(awkward fidget)

I believe that I am the only person who can steer our great country through these troubled times and as such I can no longer sit by and take the chance of someone else messing up all the hard work that we have achieved together since Labour rescued this nation from the failure of the Conservatives in 1997. In order to get on and finish the job we started we can not let ourselves be distracted by the need to hold a ballot on who is briefly popular now or next week so it would not be fair to hold any elections. Instead we will form a government of national unity, to be led by myself in consultation with the leaders of the 2 opposition parties. In order to minimise disruption there will be no other appointments or changes to the existing government.

(another sideways jaw movement)

Now you may well ask “how will this affect me?”. Let me tell you that this move is very much in the interests of your future benefit and your personal security. There are a number of very small changes that we must accept will cause some disruption to our lives, namely

1)Henceforth any public dissent against the government, through ‘blogging’ or other means, will entail immediate arrest and detention.
2)Until the ID cards have been issued identification such as a passport or driving licence will be required to be carried at all times. Not carrying any ID within 1 mile of 10 Downing Street will be regarded as a offence under the Anti-Terrorism Act
3)You will unfortunately no longer be able to contact your Conservative or Liberal Democrat MP, unless you can get a day pass to the Belmarsh Re-Education and Detention Facility

(small smile at own little joke)

4)Your wages will now be paid directly to HM Revenue and Customs. You will receive a card which will allow you to draw basic living expenses, such as food and travel costs.
5)To prevent suicide bombers from gaining access to vehicles the use of private cars will unfortunately have to be suspended. Only those persons in receipt of a permit from the Department of Transport will be allowed to use a road vehicle, such as doctors and public figures. Maserati Quattroporte owners should contact the Department for Business since their cars may be commandeered under emergency legislation being introduced by Lord Mandelson.
6)All media will now come under the control of the Department of Media, Culture and Sport. In order to minimise disruption the Director General of the BBC, Mark Thompson, has kindly agreed to step down and allow someone we all know and love to take over the highly demanding role that the new job of UK Media Controller will require – Mr Andrew Marr.

(hint of sadness)
7)The meeting of groups of 3 or more people in any public place is henceforth forbidden, under pain of arrest and detention.
8)Under the new Political Fairness Act (2009) you must inform the authorities of any person in your family who has expressed any discontent with the government. A helpline is being set up to facilitate this and counsellors from the PFA Agency will be touring schools to help educate children how to spot dissent and terrorism.

I know that if we all work together we can make sure that our great country will make it through this time of recession and strife.

(cue footage of Union jack flag blowing in the wind)
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April 25, 2009 12:56am

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