Are the Progressives defunct?
May 31st, 2009 at 11:35 am by David FarrarWhale Oil has called time of death on the Progressives. I think he is right. Why:
- Long-term Anderton/Progressive strategist John Pagani is Labour’s Mt Albert Campaign Manager, as confirmed on Q&A this morning
- Progressive Deputy Leader is pictured on Labour’s Mt Albert’s campaign website with a Labour rosette
- Anderton is effectively a Labour MP, as they have made him their Spokesperson on Agriculture.
Should Anderton still be treated as a party leader? His salary is set at $144,500 instead of $131,000 due to this status.
What other perks does Anderton get by being a party leader?
- Ability to have the taxpayer pay for his spouse to accompany him on overseas parliamentary travel
- An extra $100,000 of taxpayer funding ($164,320 instead of $64,320
One can argue that as the Progressive Party is not contesting the by-election, it is natural for them to support Labour. Having the Deputy Leader of one party wearing a rosette for anotehr is unprecedented.
Put it like this. If ACT did not contest a by-election, would you ever see the ACT Deputy Leader wearing a National rosette out campaigning for the National candidate? Of course not.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am
“Should Anderton still be treated as a party leader? His salary is set at $144,500 instead of $131,000 due to this status.”
Just another scam on the taxpayer by those liars charlatans frauds and hypocrites who so earnestly profess to act in the interests of the workers of NZ.
Nomenklatura.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am
This is akin to the scam in the Houses of Parliament in London.
Think that the Police should be looking at this one.
Taxpayers getting screwed by Labour again. They are the masters of deceit.
As Goff said in the House the other day, National inherited an economy in the best of health. Liar, liar, panties on fire!
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 11:48 am
Spooky RB
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Extra, extra read all about it, right wing loonies post at same time. not many hurt!
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:12 pm
“not many hurt!” Sonics referring to labours current polls
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm
“right wing loonies”
Maybe you can leave off so desperately labelling people who oppose socialism insane long enough to comment on the issue?
Edit- and spare me the grovelling smilies too loser. You’re not amusing.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm
So he gets an extra $13k every year by calling himself a party leader?
With the around $50k this gives him over the Parliamentary term, it should nicely fund him into a wealthy retirement, with what is probably his Kiwisaver account with Kiwibank.
On top of his travel perks and other trough-feeding over many years in Parliament, we can no doubt to expect some nice postcards from Uncle Jimmie when he retires to some warm climate overseas.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“desperately labelling people ”
From you ratbiter that is priceless. Always nice to “bait” you on a Sunday, btw any chance of translating ” people who oppose socialism insane long enough” from idiot to English?
xxx
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“Always nice to “bait” you on a Sunday”
Come off it. You’re desperately trying to divert a thread that has as its subject the chicanery of one of your favourite socialist scum politicians.
Let me ask again.
Is Anderton morally entitled to a leader’s salary??
That’s the issue loser.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Dance little baiter dance, still no translation of ” people who oppose socialism insane long enough” from you?
On the issue, the progressives stood as a party at the election, I’d assume that was game over.
xxx
xxx
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:32 pm
“On the issue, the progressives stood as a party at the election, I’d assume that was game over.”
Yes, you might well assume that, given your crippled comprehension skills.
However what Mr. Farrar’s post addresses is the issue of whether there really is a Progressive Party or whether it is in reality just a sub group of Labour and a scam set up to allow Anderton to collect a higher salary. Do you think the latter view has any merit?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:35 pm
What kind of salary do independent MPs get?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:36 pm
As I said they stood on the Party List at the election, I think that is pretty much it.
Please excuse my comprehension skills, I have still not managed to understand this ” people who oppose socialism insane long enough”
Could you help?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Sonic, I can help.
Maybe you can leave off
Vote:so desperately labelling
people who oppose socialism
“insane” [the label]
long enough to comment on the issue?
May 31st, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Thanks Ryan, is it true people call Ratbiter Insane?
It’s a crazy world we live in.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:48 pm
“As I said they stood on the Party List at the election, I think that is pretty much it.”
As I always say, the left are ever ready to excuse any immorality as long as it helps them hold on to power. They see nothing wrong with endlessly gouging the very workers whom they profess to care about, as long as they can live in elegant houses, and be carried about in chauffeur driven limousines, and stay at the finest hotels and eat pheasant and quail and drink fine wine, while telling their financial and political supporters to take buses and budget at the supermarket.
Edit- now that Ryan has done the work you’re own mind was apparently incapable of, perhaps you could do more than provide a cheap aside on the main issue.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Thanks Sonic, for exposing yourself as the pedant, and idealogue that you are unable to escape from.
Mired in dogma, spouting useless diatribes, picking and poking on a debate forum.
Just tell me again where you got so smart. Must be a world renowned ‘Cathedral of Learning’.
Ivy League? MIT? La Sorbonne? Go on tell us how well qualified you are SONIX (Plural).
Socialists lie to make friends. It’s in the DNA. Tax, lie, bribe with the tax take, lie, tax, lie, bribe with the tax take.
Control, Ban, Control, Ban, Lie, Tax !
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Perhaps folk might want to look at cl 4 of the Parliamentary Salaries and Allowances Determination 2008 and SO 29 and 30 of the Standing Orders? We then might be able to terminate this thread.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Oh by the way Sonic, I am insanely happy. Or is it Criminally Insane. Just can’t remember?
Are you a weasel looking ginger? Do you have freckles? Purulent white flesh? Halitosis?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Dean what do you do for a living and be honest now?
Sonic another whos deeper in the game than is being let on.
As for Anderton what awaste of space, being decisive is something you have and to be able to make any decision with the ability to back up your reasons for that decision is the mark of a leader.
Vote:Pay him what hes worth, about the cost of some under the counter party pills.(is that much?)
Pollies dont know what true public srevice is, of that I have no doubt.But I can say that they definately know the cost in dollar terms of their effort.
May 31st, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Dean – I’m unsure what 29 & 30 have to do with this thread?
(29 Term of office 30 Party leader or whip not to be presiding officer)?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Another example that the Progressives is nothing more than Jim Anderton’s personality cult is Megan Woods who was previously a list candidate for the Progressives in 2005 but joined the Labour party and so that she could run under its banner for the mayoralty in 2007.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Sonic, you keep avoiding the question.
What makes you so knowledgeable about everything when none of us can see it.
Are you a Prophet in disguise?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I think we’ll find that this charade is all legal going by the book, whether it is morally appropriate is another matter. There have been many speculations about how to efficiently rort the MMP system we have, for example two separate parties with the same base, one of who campaigns purely for the electorate, and one for the party vote, to maximize the number of seats that can be won. In general i would say that the major parties have shied away from this because, probably rightly, they think that the general public would see through such a transparent attempt to game the process and would punish the party concerned at the ballot box. However it is clear that at least in intent, the Progressives have become simply a faction within Labour and not a separate party. The evidence adduced by Whale is pretty convincing.
No doubt that at one time the Progressives saw themselves as a separate party, and although they were essentially inseparable from Labour in any convincing way, their conviction is close to enough to justify the labelling and maybe the funding. But now, there is no separate party of any substance. Regardless of whether it was legitimate, and if it is legal by a broad reading of the relevant laws, it isn’t truly legitimate now in a moral sense.
So, does Jim have the honesty and the courage to acknowledge what is obvious and to hand in his extra money and privileges ? Me, I wouldn’t hold my breath. Can any “left” commentator admit that this might be unreasonable behaviour, I mean unreasonable in the same way that the UK MPs are being rightly hounded for placing unreasonable expenses onto the taxpayer even though it was “legal” for them to do so ? Again, I don’t want to turn literally blue so, no, I guess we won’t see such admissions. All we can do is trust that the general public at any election sees through the deliberate attempt to scam just that little more gravy out of the taxpayer, and reacts accordingly.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Being more knowledgeable than you is no great shakes Glutaemus, my cat could probably manage it.
The cat is not as stupid to try and pick fist fights with MP’s either!
x
X
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:28 pm
So in fact there is some pussy in your life Sonic?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:31 pm
jealous old bean?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Ah bless, a cat keeper.
Guess it figures. Bet you got a matching Ginger one with no tail?
As for Trevor the Bully, it is a convenient way of reminding him what a twat he is.
Would never throw the first punch, or the second, or even the third.
After that, who would know?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:41 pm
So did your cat go to LSE? Oxbridge? Perhaps St Andrews?
Seems like a very smart cat. Do you have deep conversations?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Anderton has been brain-dead for years. His inanities are countless and comparable only to his devotion to socialism.
Vote:The sooner this irrelevant parasite retires, the better.
May 31st, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Someone seems to be a little upset to be compared unfavorably to a kitty.
I think a dignified silence to my juvenile little joke wold have been a better strategy GM, but then again you are not the sharpest knife in the box are you.
Meiow.
x
S
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Perhaps Imperial College, Edinburgh, or UMIST?
Smart Sonic, he can talk like a cat! Must be fascinating in his/her place when the lights go out.
Sonic, your opinions are as DEFUNCT as the Progressives.
So where did you get so very smart. This will be fascinating.
Are you sure that the cat isn’t an SIS plant? You never know these days. Look at poor old Rochelle Rees. Bless.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I am starting to understand why GM never gets invited to parties. What is it like being such a crashing bore?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Look given that Jim Anderton has either destroyed or attempted to destroy any political party he is a member of, it’s no wonder that Phil Goff is happy not to have him in a Labour Caucus. He is best quarantined is a party of his own.
What is amazing is the Matt McCarten compares Anderton to Douglas. There is no comparison. Douglas at his heart is relentlessly positive there are no dark demons; he believes that even the disadvantaged can understand rational economics if you provide them with the information. He also believes in upward social mobility – it has consistently driven him throughout his public life.
Anderton is by nature a wreaker. His record in Government is frankly a nothing. Only old age and financial comfort has tamed him. His key people might be on the melt back into Labour but that’s because Anderton’s party will not survive Anderton’s departure; they know that and they came from Labour in the first place.
It is highly amusing to hear Mr Pagani assisting the candidate of the Labour right David Shearer in Mt Albert; a Phil Goff pick. My my how the worm turns.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Come back Sonic, I am missing you already! I need my knives, and tools sharpening.
Another sandwich for the picnic, another stubbie for the sixpack!
Help me Sonic. You are so wise, and benevolent. Oh great one!
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
maybe he’s still trying to figure out why he sticks his tacks in the drawer?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 4:31 pm
It is very shoddy and immoral even if the rules allow it. It also illustrates what a hypocritical old blowhard Anderton really is. Along with the GREENS superannuation scheme it shows how MMP is so open to exploitation by those who don’t have anyone’s interest at heart other than their own.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
It seems to me that no MP should be treated as a party leader unless the party obtained at least 5% of the list vote.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 5:23 pm
DPF has got his facts wrong.
Simply put the progressives support Labour in Mt. Albert. Naturally they are going to help with the campaign! The issue around the rosette is in fact a NON issue, and DPF is just trying to use “unprecedented” to stir up the notion that the progressives are somehow part of the Labour Party.
Simply put THEY AREN’T. They are a separate political party.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 5:23 pm
No answer from Sonic was the reply!
Oh how I miss dear old Sonic, and that clever pussy!
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 5:24 pm
oops: SO 34 (recognition of parties) & 35 (notification of party details) on pages 29 and 30.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Settle down everyone. Jim is an old Kiwi icon like the buzzie bees. A few worthy old geezers buy them for their grandchildren but the kids never play with them. Why would they? They are boring and don’t really do anything. They cost too much but, hey, it’s a fond memory thing for old people and schoolteachers desperate for material on “Kiwi Memorial Day”.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Does anyone else put a negative karma on sonic without even reading his negative contribution?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Sonic’s petulant, off the cuff rantings really amuse me. Think this individual gets frustrated when they can’t make the wooden bricks get
the words to match the pictures. Or get those shapes through the other shapes.
Sonic and the cat must have hours of fun watching the colourful mobiles to-gether. Quite sweet really.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 7:31 pm
What is the status of the salary paid to Co-Leaders?
Do the greens and the Maori party have 2 leaders paid the same amount as Uncle Jim?
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Good point slightlyrighty, would be interesting to know such things. But I doubt they would be that stupid, then again this is New Zealand.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 8:09 pm
I have no idea SR however one would hope they get the basic and then split the leaders extras.
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 8:26 pm
The British MP’s, and the rest of the self serving establishment tried every trick in the book to exempt themselves from Information requests.
They failed becuse the rule of law, and soon Tax by Statute should always win.
About time all the Public Servants here were able to be reviewed in the same manner.
I want to know why we paid a 6x per capita to UNDP, and then Helen Clark gets the plum job. The lapdog MSM remain mute.
Totally Scandalous!
Vote:May 31st, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Stop feeding sonic. Its a pain in the ass because when I run down the thread I have to stop at each of his comments to contribute -ve karma. Takes forever to get to the end.
As for Anderton, surely he’s a Dead Man Taking (money from the public purse)
Vote:June 1st, 2009 at 9:24 am
Can he just die already?
Vote:June 1st, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Funny no one has mentioned your guys mate Peter Dunne yet.
dont tell me he donated his extra ‘leaders’ salary to charity?
Vote:June 1st, 2009 at 3:28 pm
As member 1245 of the Progressives I believe that Jim must stay as leader.
Vote:The pity is that one must read this blog to see what a bludger he is. The main stream media will never ever bring that sort of information to the attention of their readers.
Okay, belonging to the Progressives is as damaging to one’s mental health as smoking is to one’s physical health, but, hey! the $5.00 annual subscription is good entertainment.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:16 pm
TN, at least the mental issues are only Progressive. It could be worse. It could be a Labour of love.
Vote: