General Debate 11 May 2009 Add this story to Scoopit!.

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60 Responses to “General Debate 11 May 2009”

  1. Grant Michael McKenna (1,058) Says:

    The Herald has a story about ” NZ’s 1 million unregistered guns” .
    First question- are they all firearms? Shotguns are yes, but how many are “pellet guns”? Are there really a million such unregistered weapons, or is this just possibly a bit of panic?
    Second question- if possession of an unregistered firearm meant a mandatory sentence, would the number of unregistered weapons decrease?

  2. Inventory2 (7,223) Says:

    Why is the Herald claiming a scoop on the Richard Northey story when WhaleOil broke it 60 hours earlier? Another victory for the blogosphere methinks!

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/05/credit-where-credits-due.html

  3. peterwn (1,541) Says:

    Police Communications – It beggers belief that the police do not seem to have a secure front-line communications system and it seemed it nearly cost an innocent member of the public his life when the Napier offender sent a hail of bullets in his direction once the offender became aware (via a scanner) that the person was giving the police a running commentary.

  4. bharmer (615) Says:

    Of course they should have secure communications. And the hospitals should have greater capacity and better equipment, and education is broke and in need of fixing, and every other part of the civil service is (in some perceptions) underfunded and unable to perform to best practice levels.

    Meanwhile, the clamor for a reduction in the cost of government in all its forms keeps the pressure in the other direction.

    It’s not until an episode like this that the spotlight shines on a particular issue that it stands a chance of getting fixed. Meanwhile the next link in the chain (like the shackles that support power wires in Auckland sub-stations) is quietly rusting away, and the one next to that, and the one next to that …

    How to balance all the things that need doing with the mood for reduced government expenditure?

  5. wynkie (54) Says:

    Why no links to Cactus’s story on the NZX????

    http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2009/05/nz-information-exchange.html

    Is this too upsetting for Key’s to see his golden boy being destroyed??

    [DPF: I have a link appearing later today]

  6. racer (258) Says:

    I’m sure patrick starr and others must have it close at hand, but DPF hasn’t kept a record on the demerits page, could someone tell me how many points i’m up too?

  7. Neil (431) Says:

    Having just attended the South Island National Party convention I was disappointed with the nil coverage on TVOne last night. Never mind, the party is in good heart.
    We had interesting speeches but naturally the main focus was on John Key and even more on Bill English.
    The big message that came from Mr English was the fact that this would not be a black budget, but one that prepares for the future by encouraging productivity and removing wasteful spending,like some of the grants to social engineering groups..
    I haven’t been in the North Island, Auckland in particular, for a couple of years and it was interesting to hear the comments of Mr English.
    The further south you go people say,”What recession?”.
    It’s great to see farmers getting about $85 a lamb in contrast to last years $44. A result of the dairy rationalisation where there are now some 20m less lambs going through freezing works. The old principle of supply and demand.
    That means places like Oamaru,Ashburton,Gore and Invercargill are still holding up well, with minimal growth in unemployment.
    Mr English pointed out that over half of the new unemployment arises in the Auckland area, where peoples lives seemed to be based on debt(housing,credit card etc) Of course the property boom/bust was highlighted there.
    People in rural areas mightn’t have the bright lights but haven’t gone out spending recklessly running up huge debts. The goal of increased productivity will start in the rural/regional areas, realism has been part of our lives rather than self-induced hysteria from would be property tycoons.

  8. davidp (2,175) Says:

    peterwn>Police Communications – It beggers belief that the police do not seem to have a secure front-line communications system

    They’re about to deploy encryption. I’m not involved in the rollout of the encrypted comms itself, but I’m helping them with a support application that will be required once the encryption is in place. It is due to go live any day now.

  9. cha (1,196) Says:

    @ Adolf Fiinkensein

    Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship

    Abstract:

    Senator McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to U.S. citizen parents. The Canal Zone was territory controlled by the United States, but it was not incorporated into the Union. As requested by Senator McCain’s campaign, distinguished constitutional lawyers Laurence Tribe and Theodore Olson examined the law and issued a detailed opinion offering two reasons that Senator McCain was a natural born citizen. Neither is sound under current law. The Tribe-Olson Opinion suggests that the Canal Zone, then under exclusive U.S. jurisdiction, may have been covered by the Fourteenth Amendment’s grant of citizenship to “all persons born . . . in the United States.” However, in the Insular Cases, the Supreme Court held that “unincorporated territories” were not part of the United States for constitutional purposes. Accordingly, many decisions hold that persons born in unincorporated territories are not Fourteenth Amendment citizens. The Tribe-Olson Opinion also suggests that Senator McCain obtained citizenship by statute. However, the only statute in effect in 1936 did not cover the Canal Zone. Recognizing the gap, in 1937, Congress passed a citizenship law applicable only to the Canal Zone, granting Senator McCain citizenship, but eleven months too late for him to be a citizen at birth. Because Senator John McCain was not a citizen at birth, he is not a “natural born Citizen” and thus is not “eligible to the Office of President” under the Constitution.

    This essay concludes by exploring how changes in constitutional law implied by the Tribe-Olson Opinion, such as limiting the Insular Cases and expanding judicial review of immigration and nationality laws passed by Congress, could make Senator McCain a citizen at birth and thus a natural born citizen

    Complete paper, pdf.

  10. Murray (8,734) Says:

    Racer, not enough.

    Keep talking.

  11. peterwn (1,541) Says:

    bharmer – point partly taken. However it also seems to me that the Police have established their own sites and network over the years in typical Mr Plod fashion rather than trying to ‘joint venture’ with others (I had a bit of a run-in with Police communications staff some years back and had to deal with one of the rudest aggressive ***** I have ever come across).

    As for rusty shackles holding up power wires in substations – Transpower never said that they were not to be examined to save money, it was that the contractor badly botched up by somehow failing to do the inspection work that the contractor was paid to do.

  12. gazzmaniac (1,130) Says:

    Would’nt Senator McCain automatically be a US citizen at birth if his parents were both citizens?

  13. racer (258) Says:

    Okay murray.

    So, what about this Molenaar character, sounds a bit like a Kiwiblogger huh? What with his “council beater” house (dislike or regulation), his god given right to own guns, his ok for me to break the law attitude towards business (drug growing), and a unhealthy dose of ‘roid rage thrown in for good measure. Sounds like he would fit in here just swimmingly! (Pity about the dead guy though)

  14. davidp (2,175) Says:

    gazzmaniac>Would’nt Senator McCain automatically be a US citizen at birth if his parents were both citizens?

    His father was in the military and posted to the Canal Zone at the time. So he is certainly a citizen, and certainly meets the requirements for being US President.

    Similarly the children of diplomats. If your country sends you overseas to serve, they don’t disenfranchise your children.

  15. adamsmith1922 (690) Says:

    http://adamsmith.wordpress.com/2009/05/10/obama-at-whcd/

    Clip of Obama’s quite amusing speech to the White House press corps

    [DPF: Yeah I have the full speech on You Tube appearing later today. Quite good]

  16. Redbaiter (13,197) Says:

    Bloggers need to keep the heat on the Police over the Brash emails scandal. Something stinks there.

  17. racer (258) Says:

    Why not just make something up?

  18. gazzmaniac (1,130) Says:

    Thanks davidp – that is what I thought. What is cha on about then?

  19. gazzmaniac (1,130) Says:

    Australia has just introduced a federal government funded paid maternity leave scheme. New working mothers will get 18 weeks paid parental leave at $500-odd per week.
    I am disgusted. The Australian government can’t meet its own ends at the moment (and is blaming the financial crisis – they are a Labor govt) and it is expanding the welfare state.
    Becoming a parent is a lifestyle choice, why should I have to fund other people’s lifestyles?

    It is wrong, wrong, wrong.

  20. Jack5 (2,486) Says:

    Could someone elaborate please on how NZ controls firearms? I thought it had a policy of controlling owners rather than the firearms themselves.

    See McKenna 8.08am post at the beginning of today’s general debate, which is about the following newspaper report:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571561

    If owners are in fact controlled and monitored rather than firearms, then the Herald report Grant Michael McKenna refers to is quite flawed and inadequate.

    Also how do the Herald and Borrows get the figure of a million unregistered firerarms? It seems a helluva lot. Are they stockpiled in the Ureweras?

  21. Redbaiter (13,197) Says:

    Gun registration is just an urban liberal feel good jerk off.

  22. Murray (8,734) Says:

    “So, what about this Molenaar character, sounds a bit like a Kiwiblogger huh? ”

    Yeah he certainly scans like one of your type racer. A tiny penised dickhead who could benfit from 10 grams of lead and brass. Well spotted.

    “Why not just make something up?”
    You’ve already cornered that market by the looks of things.

    But allow to express my admiration for the lefts continued ability to take loss of life to push their own pathetic egos once more. Your commitment to self interest is without rival. It will certainly help the people of Mt Albert make up their minds.

  23. cha (1,196) Says:

    Thanks davidp – that is what I thought. What is cha on about then?

    Stirring the pot for fun is what I’m on about but if you took the time to read the paper you’d see that McCain may not be a natural born citizen and the Qualifications for office of Article Two of the United States Constitution states

    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

  24. racer (258) Says:

    Murray
    “So, what about this Molenaar character, sounds a bit like a Kiwiblogger huh? ”

    Yeah he certainly scans like one of your type racer. A tiny penised dickhead who could benfit from 10 grams of lead and brass. Well spotted.”

    Wow, murray advocating for my murder, that brings trying to silence me to a whole new level!

  25. Jack5 (2,486) Says:

    Racer: why aren’t you at school today?
    Or are you there and using an iPhone or some such?

  26. racer (258) Says:

    No, I don’t go to school. Ah I only wish I had an I phone, might go for an N95 once the competition heats up a little, can you post on kiwiblog with one of them?

  27. CraigM (668) Says:

    Change of subject – is anyone following the story of the extremely well-perked MP’s in the UK. They have taken the baubles of office concept to a whole new level.

    The Labour party MP’s seem to be the biggest tax-payer-money grabbers. What a disgrace.
    The spotlight is now on the Tories, but it doesn’t appear as if they are anywhere near as greedy, unethical or morally corrupt as the Labour MP’s.

    If the polls weren’t bad enough for labour, this could make the next election an absolute bloodbath.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/31/mps-expenses-for-sale
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/5264069/Labour-MP-claimed-sauna-on-expenses.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021775/Mr-Mrs-expenses-MP-couple-175-000-flat—house-just-30-minutes-away.html

    My question: is there such a list of MP’s expenses in NZ and can we please see it?

  28. cha (1,196) Says:

    I’ve posted this before but for you CraigM here’s the google spread sheet.

    UK MPs expense claims

  29. Murray (8,734) Says:

    Racer. Suicide cock head. Jesus get a newspaper why don’t you.

    Besides with scum as repuslive as you its post natal abortion anyway. Senstive little petal when its you getting the attention aren’t you.

    And by the way, crying once more that I have ever tried to “silence you” is really just pathetic, you’re a fucking liar. Simple as that. If I had “tried” to silence you you’d be making a shit load less noise I can assure you. (No dick breath its not a threat, its an observation) Once more with the “help help I’m being repressed” bullshit. I’m all for you wankers saying anything you like, it gives the voters something to judge the greens and labour on. You’re the best National and Act could have hoped for.

    But hey Jesus loves you! (Everyone else thinks you’re a dick.)

  30. Brian Smaller (3,409) Says:

    Anyone else seen the news that once again Bailey Junior Kurariki has been given bail. His charge of male assuults female dropped to one of just assault. How long do you give before he commits yet another crime while on bail?

  31. Fisiani (539) Says:

    From UK

    1. Teaching Maths In 1970
    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
    His cost of production is 4/5 of the price.
    What is his profit?

    2. Teaching Maths In 1980
    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
    His cost of production is 80% of the price.
    What is his profit?

    3. Teaching Maths In 1990
    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
    His cost of production is £80.
    How much was his profit?

    4. Teaching Maths In 2000
    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
    His cost of production is £80 and his profit is £20.
    Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

    5. Teaching Maths In 2005
    A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habit of animals or the preservation of our woodlands.
    Your assignment: Discuss how did the birds and squirrels might feel as the logger cut down their homes just for a measly profit of £20.

    5. Teaching Maths In 2009
    A logger is arrested for trying to cut down a tree in case it is offensive to Muslims who have a mosque nearby. He is also fined a £100 by the European Union as his chainsaw is breach of Health & Safety as it deemed a danger and could cut something. He protests and is taken to court and fined another £100 when he reveals that the chainsaw runs off petrol and he is in breach of his Carbon Allowance. When he is released from jail he returns to find Gypsies have cut down half his wood to build a camp on his land. He tries to throw them off but is arrested, imprisoned and fined a further £100. While he is in jail the Gypsies cut down his wood and sell it on the black market for £100 a load, tax free until all his wood is gone.

    Your assignment: How many times is the logger going to have to be arrested and fined before he realises that he is never going to make £20 profit by hard work, give up, sign onto the dole and live off the state for the rest of his life?

    5. Teaching Maths In 2010
    A logger doesn’t sell a lorry load of timber because he can’t get a loan to buy a new lorry because his bank has leant all the their money to some dodgey crooks in South American to fund their Sub-Prime Mortgage scandal and only have enough money left to pay million pound bonuses to their fund managers.

    The logger can’t even afford to put petrol in his old lorry built in the 1970’s and Health & Safety have banned him from using chain saws to cut down the trees in case he hurts himself.

    Some Eastern European loggers have undercut him on price anyway and are sending all the cash they make back home, while claiming unemployment for themselves as well as all their relatives back home.

    The logger tries to protest about it but is accused of being racist and locked away, but as there was no room in the prison, as it’s full of Bulgarians who’ve raped loads of our women just so they get put in jail and watch Sky Sports for free for the rest of their lives.

    The Government borrow more money to pay the bankers back so that they can pay bigger bonuses to themselves; and following a successful German car scrappage scheme whereby the German Government pays it’s people £2,000 if they buy a new car to help prop up the German car industry, our Government also pledges £2,000 so that we can buy a new car and help prop up………the German car industry over here as well!

    You do the maths.

    6. Teaching Maths 2017
    أ المسجل تبيع حموله شاحنة من الخشب من اجل 100 دولار. صاحب تكلفة الانتاج من الثمن. ما هو الربح له؟

  32. Redbaiter (13,197) Says:

    I think Mr. Farrar allows Mickey Savage and Racer to post here 1) just to emphasize the point that to be a leftist one has to be brain dead and 2) to demonstrate just how ineffective and utterly useless the left are as a political force these days.

    A thin veneer of posing fake intellectuals like Trotter et al underpinned by a legion of low life gape jawed knuckle dragging morons like these two. What a joke outfit.

  33. Murray (8,734) Says:

    Farce red, its spelt FARCE.

  34. burt (5,436) Says:

    racer

    You are a disgrace.

  35. WraithX (295) Says:

    Cha: interpretation is a very finicky thing. In fact, you could interpret that quote to mean that no one can be president:

    “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution”

    Surely you can say that no living American was a citizen of the US at the time of the adoption of the constitution – they would be over 200 years old! Therefore no living American is eligible to be president.

  36. big bruv (9,840) Says:

    Is anybody surprised that Bailey Junior Kurariki has been granted bail in his latest brush with the law (if you call assault a “brush”)

    Why did we ever let this piece of human filth out in the first place, he should be spending the rest of his life behind bars.

  37. Komata (595) Says:

    BB

    Why did we let him out? Very simply, because he is :

    Still only a child at heart

    He doesn’t understand the enormity of what he has done

    He is Maori and they need special treament (the Treaty guarantees it)

    He says he will NEVER do it again

    The Greens think he is soooo misunderstood

    He is going to live with such a NICE family

    All teh lady psychologists think he looks so cute and he’s made sooo much progress

    He has said he is now going to be a better member of society

    He now understands ‘responsibility’

    Uncle Pita and Aunty Tariana say that he is ENTITLED to be let out (the Treaty says so)

    His family and whanau have assure us that they will look after him

    All and any of the above – you choose!!

    (And remember, us Pakeha mustn’t tell the truth – it might hurt his tender, Maori, easily offended feelings – and Uncle Pita and all the ‘real new Zealanders’ will be SOOO angry!! THey might even march on Parliament – or hold a hui to protest)

  38. canuckiwi01 (7) Says:

    Groundhog Day, anyone??? Just to entirely change the topic… an amusing/interesting twist on the ‘Peak Oil’ sage, now that US$60/bbl has been breached again, on Petroleum news.net…
    petroleumnews.net/storyview.asp?storyid=1026916&sectionsource=s0

  39. Ryan Sproull (4,703) Says:

    Why did we let him out? Very simply, because he is :

    Still only a child at heart

    He doesn’t understand the enormity of what he has done

    He is Maori and they need special treament (the Treaty guarantees it)

    He says he will NEVER do it again

    The Greens think he is soooo misunderstood

    He is going to live with such a NICE family

    All teh lady psychologists think he looks so cute and he’s made sooo much progress

    He has said he is now going to be a better member of society

    He now understands ‘responsibility’

    Uncle Pita and Aunty Tariana say that he is ENTITLED to be let out (the Treaty says so)

    His family and whanau have assure us that they will look after him

    All and any of the above – you choose!!

    Citations needed.

  40. racer (258) Says:

    “Murray

    And by the way, crying once more that I have ever tried to “silence you” is really just pathetic, you’re a fucking liar.”
    You have, multiple times, you still are, your a joke if you think other wise.

    “Murray
    If I had “tried” to silence you you’d be making a shit load less noise I can assure you. (No dick breath its not a threat, its an observation)”
    Thats a threat of physical violence, I would be very careful repeating such a thing (I hope you realize that you’ve committed a crime, though you probably don’t as your thick as pig shit).

    “burt

    You are a disgrace.”

    Burt, you’re a cunt.

    [DPF: I allowed the earlier c words, but calling someone the c word is what crosses the boundary - 20 demerits]

  41. racer (258) Says:

    And threatening violence doesn’t, fantastic!

    [DPF: It was not a threat - Murray was very specific.]

  42. jarbury (461) Says:

    Canuck, oil price rises will be one of the first things that let us know when the world economy starts to recover. I’ve heard that the futures pricing for the middle of next year are well over $100 a barrel.

    I would love to have a citation, but that was from someone’s comment on a blog a while back.

  43. Murray (8,734) Says:

    Thats right racer, I’m army trained, my violence is very specific.

    Oh and Ha ha!

  44. racer (258) Says:

    racer
    And threatening violence doesn’t, fantastic!

    [DPF: It was not a threat - Murray was very specific.]

    Then what the hell was it?

    Murry, enjoy the next few days, they will be your last, this is not a threat, its an observation.

  45. racer (258) Says:

    You mean your trained to be thick as fuck?

  46. Banana Llama (1,105) Says:

    Enjoy the next few days Racer, they could be your last, this is not a threat, just a fact.

  47. WebWrat (508) Says:

    Ah! Got you racer.
    I’ve been trying to figure out the meaning of your 237 posts.
    I’ve finally twigged.
    You’re trying to tell us you are a fuckwit.
    Sorry I’m a bit slow.

    There probably are 1 million unregistered firearms in NZ.
    You don’t have to register ‘normal’ (Class A ?) firearms.
    To own a firearm, you have to be licenced.

  48. racer (258) Says:

    Now now, we wouldn’t want an axe planted squarely into Murrays skull (well most of us anyway), not a threat, just a fact.

  49. Murray (8,734) Says:

    “You mean your trained to be thick as fuck?”

    Yes, just like the crews of those lavs that went into Napier and half the AOL. You sad pathetic little jerckoff. Like the other lettie trolls here you’re a pretty offensive bit of refuse aren’t you.

    Indulge in your little hate fest with your fantasies of violence while you can. You’re simply too stupid to know when to shut up. It was about a week ago by the way.

    You’ve alreay talked yourself into a 20 demerits and you’re well on the way to getting your silly little ass banned entirely.

    And once more: Ha ha!

  50. racer (258) Says:

    And you will enjoy the day im banned, when you no longer have to read my opinion that you object to so much, that obviously hurts your pea brain so badly.

  51. Murray (8,734) Says:

    Back to kindy now racer, play time is over.

  52. racer (258) Says:

    At least i’ve not got a court order banning me from going to close to kindies.

    [DPF: And good bye with 50 demerits]

  53. Murray (8,734) Says:

    Would you like to make an openly defamatory accusation or are you going to go with the gutless inudeno and dirty little smeers we’ve come to expect from the emotionally crippled socialists who have delusions of relevance?

  54. racer (258) Says:

    I haven’t accused anyone of anything, I’m just pointing out that I haven’t got a court order preventing me going near kindergartens.

    Does someone have a guilty conscience?

  55. Ryan Sproull (4,703) Says:

    For fuck’s sake, you two. Would you just have sex and get it over with?

  56. racer (258) Says:

    I’ve offered him many a sword fight, but alas…

  57. Murray (8,734) Says:

    You’ve done what now?

    Jsus what a fantasy world you live in.

    So you’re chossing option two gutless inudeno and dirty little smeers.

    You a really pathetic wannbe really aren’t you racer. You’re the reason this country fired Helen Clark. We sick of nasty little bits of human refuse thinking they matter.

    The insights into the “workings” of you mind are enough to make anyone want to take a shower. You’re delusions of cleverness aren’t fooling anyone and you fixation is more than a little unhealthy.

    Go get some therapy.

  58. racer (258) Says:

    I’m the reason Labour lost the last election? shouldn’t you be showering me in gifts?

  59. Barnsley Bill (742) Says:

    Is anybody else feeling like we are seeing the ghost of Robinsod?

  60. Murray (8,734) Says:

    And finally;

    Ha ha!

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