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	<title>Comments on: How some NZ MPs benefit from parliamentary expenses</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563810</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 21:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563810</guid>
		<description>Who was the maths genius that dreamed up this condition?

&quot;(iii) other private accommodation

This is where the MP stays in a private residence not owned by them - probably owned by a friend. They can claim up to $50 a night, up to a maximum of $24,000 a year.

In this case the MP gains no benefit, but the home owner can benefit, and they may be related to the MP. Having said that I am not sure if any MP uses this option.&quot;

FFS, 365 days/nights @$50 = $18,250.  One struggles to see the point of a $24,000 cap.

[DPF: The $24K gap is for all forms of accommodation. So one might spend 100 days in a hotel and 50 days privately]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who was the maths genius that dreamed up this condition?</p>
<p>&#8220;(iii) other private accommodation</p>
<p>This is where the MP stays in a private residence not owned by them &#8211; probably owned by a friend. They can claim up to $50 a night, up to a maximum of $24,000 a year.</p>
<p>In this case the MP gains no benefit, but the home owner can benefit, and they may be related to the MP. Having said that I am not sure if any MP uses this option.&#8221;</p>
<p>FFS, 365 days/nights @$50 = $18,250.  One struggles to see the point of a $24,000 cap.</p>
<p>[DPF: The $24K gap is for all forms of accommodation. So one might spend 100 days in a hotel and 50 days privately]</p>
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		<title>By: PaulL</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563716</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 09:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563716</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  In theory it is ripping us off.  But, in reality, we&#039;re paying a maximum of $24K per annum for them to live away from home.  If they choose to live in a slightly less flash apartment, and pocket the difference (which is effectively what DPF describes), I&#039;m not sure I care.

The company I work for used to have rules that were aimed at making sure nobody profited from living away from home.  Expenses were supposed to be recompense for actual out of pocket.  We used to stick our noses into whether someone had a partner (and, if so, were they married or de facto), whether they had children, whether they had a mortgage or not in their home location, what sort of accommodation they lived in, how it was furnished.  Because our expense policy required all these things.  It annoyed the staff (it feels like penny pinching) and cost an enormous amount in administration. 

We shifted to a bulk funding model - you get $200 a night for every night away from home.  Spend it how you like, or don&#039;t spend it, we don&#039;t care.  You can&#039;t exactly get rich on it, and the reality remains that you are away from home.  If you impose on friends or family so you can save some of it then that&#039;s your problem.  If you live cheaply to save some of it, then good on you.  If you live expensively, not our problem.

The main problem with DPF&#039;s scenario isn&#039;t that it happens, it&#039;s that the rules pretend that it doesn&#039;t happen.  

As for the Greens - I say good on them.  Some of that money that turns up as return goes out as time - you don&#039;t have a management agency because you do your own repairs - you trade time for money.  You make a better return because you have good tenants - but that means you have to be a good tenant.  You get a margin from living in a cheaper apartment - but you put up with that cheaper apartment without whinging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  In theory it is ripping us off.  But, in reality, we&#8217;re paying a maximum of $24K per annum for them to live away from home.  If they choose to live in a slightly less flash apartment, and pocket the difference (which is effectively what DPF describes), I&#8217;m not sure I care.</p>
<p>The company I work for used to have rules that were aimed at making sure nobody profited from living away from home.  Expenses were supposed to be recompense for actual out of pocket.  We used to stick our noses into whether someone had a partner (and, if so, were they married or de facto), whether they had children, whether they had a mortgage or not in their home location, what sort of accommodation they lived in, how it was furnished.  Because our expense policy required all these things.  It annoyed the staff (it feels like penny pinching) and cost an enormous amount in administration. </p>
<p>We shifted to a bulk funding model &#8211; you get $200 a night for every night away from home.  Spend it how you like, or don&#8217;t spend it, we don&#8217;t care.  You can&#8217;t exactly get rich on it, and the reality remains that you are away from home.  If you impose on friends or family so you can save some of it then that&#8217;s your problem.  If you live cheaply to save some of it, then good on you.  If you live expensively, not our problem.</p>
<p>The main problem with DPF&#8217;s scenario isn&#8217;t that it happens, it&#8217;s that the rules pretend that it doesn&#8217;t happen.  </p>
<p>As for the Greens &#8211; I say good on them.  Some of that money that turns up as return goes out as time &#8211; you don&#8217;t have a management agency because you do your own repairs &#8211; you trade time for money.  You make a better return because you have good tenants &#8211; but that means you have to be a good tenant.  You get a margin from living in a cheaper apartment &#8211; but you put up with that cheaper apartment without whinging.</p>
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		<title>By: lilman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563701</link>
		<dc:creator>lilman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 08:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563701</guid>
		<description>All I can think of is that bastian of political vigor JOHNATHAN HUNT.
I ever there was a more dispicable example of a MP ripping off the taxpayer its that farce.

Talk about a  pig in a trough,  pity we didnt see that Pig on SUNDAY last night.
A complete waste of my money and the worlds space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can think of is that bastian of political vigor JOHNATHAN HUNT.<br />
I ever there was a more dispicable example of a MP ripping off the taxpayer its that farce.</p>
<p>Talk about a  pig in a trough,  pity we didnt see that Pig on SUNDAY last night.<br />
A complete waste of my money and the worlds space.</p>
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		<title>By: dimmocrazy</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563699</link>
		<dc:creator>dimmocrazy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 08:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563699</guid>
		<description>Best way to deal with all this is sunshine.  Apart from the brilliant suggestions like an MP apartment building, the whole expenses and salary system should be public and online.  One should be able to check precisely what each and every public servant is being paid and compensated and what for.  We would probably find out that the people we consider the most important get paid the least and vice versa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best way to deal with all this is sunshine.  Apart from the brilliant suggestions like an MP apartment building, the whole expenses and salary system should be public and online.  One should be able to check precisely what each and every public servant is being paid and compensated and what for.  We would probably find out that the people we consider the most important get paid the least and vice versa</p>
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		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563697</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 08:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563697</guid>
		<description>I think parliament should provide MPs with apartments in Wellington. They Belong to Parliament therefore negating any living allowance expenses. Furthermore, there should only be a $6.50 fare subsidy to and from the airport, ie the cost of the airporter express bus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think parliament should provide MPs with apartments in Wellington. They Belong to Parliament therefore negating any living allowance expenses. Furthermore, there should only be a $6.50 fare subsidy to and from the airport, ie the cost of the airporter express bus.</p>
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		<title>By: tvb</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563680</link>
		<dc:creator>tvb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563680</guid>
		<description>Basically the taxpayer should not be used to build up an asset for the MP either through a superfund or through ownership of the property. The should get an allowance for accomodation for ACTUAL nights spent in Wellington being an out of pocket expence.  Building up an asset using this allowance or using it as some sort of super scheme should NOT be allowed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically the taxpayer should not be used to build up an asset for the MP either through a superfund or through ownership of the property. The should get an allowance for accomodation for ACTUAL nights spent in Wellington being an out of pocket expence.  Building up an asset using this allowance or using it as some sort of super scheme should NOT be allowed.</p>
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		<title>By: davidp</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563663</link>
		<dc:creator>davidp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 04:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563663</guid>
		<description>&gt;The Queensland Parliament actually provides a reasonable model for accomodation. 

Parliament already seems to be an insular environment. I&#039;d prefer that MPs spent at least some of their time out in the community with the rest of us. If that means a few minutes each day walking home or in a bus, then great. If it means a few minutes a day talking to a taxi driver or, at the very minimum, watching a taxi driver earn a living, then that is better than nothing. But I&#039;d rather they didn&#039;t spend days at a time interacting with no one other than MPs and their own political minions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;The Queensland Parliament actually provides a reasonable model for accomodation. </p>
<p>Parliament already seems to be an insular environment. I&#8217;d prefer that MPs spent at least some of their time out in the community with the rest of us. If that means a few minutes each day walking home or in a bus, then great. If it means a few minutes a day talking to a taxi driver or, at the very minimum, watching a taxi driver earn a living, then that is better than nothing. But I&#8217;d rather they didn&#8217;t spend days at a time interacting with no one other than MPs and their own political minions.</p>
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		<title>By: OldNews</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563662</link>
		<dc:creator>OldNews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 04:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563662</guid>
		<description>The Queensland Parliament actually provides a reasonable model for accomodation.  A lot of Queensland MPs live a lot, lot further away from Brisbane than most our MPs do.  So the Parliament complex includes a high-rise &#039;annex&#039; which has rooms sleep quarters for MPs.  Much more efficient.  Not only does it stop accomodation rorts also cuts down taxi fares etc. Would be easy enough to build something suitable where the ugly carpark out the back now is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Queensland Parliament actually provides a reasonable model for accomodation.  A lot of Queensland MPs live a lot, lot further away from Brisbane than most our MPs do.  So the Parliament complex includes a high-rise &#8216;annex&#8217; which has rooms sleep quarters for MPs.  Much more efficient.  Not only does it stop accomodation rorts also cuts down taxi fares etc. Would be easy enough to build something suitable where the ugly carpark out the back now is.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Bird</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563635</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 02:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563635</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; I suppose the person who I think shows this type of ethos is, oh, how about John Key? I think he would fit this criteria nicely. &lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I think John Boscawen would also fit this criteria nicely.  It would be nice to have more MPs who are generous with their own money not just ours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I suppose the person who I think shows this type of ethos is, oh, how about John Key? I think he would fit this criteria nicely. </p></blockquote>
<p>I think John Boscawen would also fit this criteria nicely.  It would be nice to have more MPs who are generous with their own money not just ours.</p>
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		<title>By: backster</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563633</link>
		<dc:creator>backster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 02:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563633</guid>
		<description>I wonder if any of the Pommie MPS spend $35,000 a year on taxi fares.?........As for the accomodation rorts a simple standard accommodation allowance should be the only option available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if any of the Pommie MPS spend $35,000 a year on taxi fares.?&#8230;&#8230;..As for the accomodation rorts a simple standard accommodation allowance should be the only option available.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Bird</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563627</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 02:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563627</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt; (iii) other private accommodation &lt;/b&gt;

This is where the MP stays in a private residence not owned by them - probably owned by a friend. They can claim up to $50 a night, up to a maximum of $24,000 a year.

In this case the MP gains no benefit, but the home owner can benefit, and they may be related to the MP. Having said that I am not sure if any MP uses this option. &lt;/blockquote&gt; 

How do we know that the MP gains no benefit?  I would no be surprised if some of them would not be above splitting the $50 with their friend or relation.  Hobbs and Bunkle would be good examples.  Has anyone noticed that those on the left are generally more likely to have the snout in the trough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><b> (iii) other private accommodation </b></p>
<p>This is where the MP stays in a private residence not owned by them &#8211; probably owned by a friend. They can claim up to $50 a night, up to a maximum of $24,000 a year.</p>
<p>In this case the MP gains no benefit, but the home owner can benefit, and they may be related to the MP. Having said that I am not sure if any MP uses this option. </p></blockquote>
<p>How do we know that the MP gains no benefit?  I would no be surprised if some of them would not be above splitting the $50 with their friend or relation.  Hobbs and Bunkle would be good examples.  Has anyone noticed that those on the left are generally more likely to have the snout in the trough?</p>
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		<title>By: F E Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563620</link>
		<dc:creator>F E Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 01:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563620</guid>
		<description>surely not... :) 

Interesting case, AG. I just love US court cases.  They really go to town on each other over there and make us seem like shrinking violets by comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>surely not&#8230; <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Interesting case, AG. I just love US court cases.  They really go to town on each other over there and make us seem like shrinking violets by comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: AG</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563617</link>
		<dc:creator>AG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 01:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563617</guid>
		<description>I suspect FE Smith&#039;s tongue is firmly in his cheek ... interestingly, though, the issue of politicians, pay and promises to serve for free led to one of the great US Supreme Court cases on freedom of speech:
http://law.jrank.org/pages/13411/Brown-v-Hartlage.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect FE Smith&#8217;s tongue is firmly in his cheek &#8230; interestingly, though, the issue of politicians, pay and promises to serve for free led to one of the great US Supreme Court cases on freedom of speech:<br />
<a href="http://law.jrank.org/pages/13411/Brown-v-Hartlage.html" rel="nofollow">http://law.jrank.org/pages/13411/Brown-v-Hartlage.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ratbiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563610</link>
		<dc:creator>Ratbiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 01:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563610</guid>
		<description>F E Smith - we have an established mechanism for voting out parties/MPs that we believe are not performing - regardless of whether they can afford to work for free or not. 

IMHO as soon as personal wealth becomes an entrance prerequisite for standing for Parliament, then you have a class system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>F E Smith &#8211; we have an established mechanism for voting out parties/MPs that we believe are not performing &#8211; regardless of whether they can afford to work for free or not. </p>
<p>IMHO as soon as personal wealth becomes an entrance prerequisite for standing for Parliament, then you have a class system.</p>
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		<title>By: F E Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563605</link>
		<dc:creator>F E Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 01:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563605</guid>
		<description>No Ratty, they still have to be elected.  It just ensures that they have to be able to afford the time off!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Ratty, they still have to be elected.  It just ensures that they have to be able to afford the time off!</p>
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		<title>By: Ratbiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563604</link>
		<dc:creator>Ratbiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 01:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563604</guid>
		<description>F E Smith - Yes! let us have government by the very rich (who can afford to work for free) instead of by representation. That seems fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>F E Smith &#8211; Yes! let us have government by the very rich (who can afford to work for free) instead of by representation. That seems fair.</p>
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		<title>By: F E Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563599</link>
		<dc:creator>F E Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563599</guid>
		<description>How about going back to the old days, with no salaries and no pensions at all for MPs?  Cut the number of sitting days (and therefore hopefully the amount of legislation introduced) and simply cover expenses to and from Wellington (together with g_&#039;s proposal, which I quite like) and electorate expenses as per now.   

That would make being an MP a public service, one that isn&#039;t there to provide former trades unionists, lecturers and teachers with a taxpayer subsidised free ride.

I suppose the person who I think shows this type of ethos is, oh, how about John Key?  I think he would fit this criteria nicely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about going back to the old days, with no salaries and no pensions at all for MPs?  Cut the number of sitting days (and therefore hopefully the amount of legislation introduced) and simply cover expenses to and from Wellington (together with g_&#8217;s proposal, which I quite like) and electorate expenses as per now.   </p>
<p>That would make being an MP a public service, one that isn&#8217;t there to provide former trades unionists, lecturers and teachers with a taxpayer subsidised free ride.</p>
<p>I suppose the person who I think shows this type of ethos is, oh, how about John Key?  I think he would fit this criteria nicely.</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563593</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563593</guid>
		<description>It is quite lucky really that none of these rorts ever get prosecuted in the courts. Imagine our &quot;transparency international&quot; rating if we were honest about how corrupt and self serving our MP&#039;s really are.

Phew, lucky we can cover up the corruption to get a low corruption score....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is quite lucky really that none of these rorts ever get prosecuted in the courts. Imagine our &#8220;transparency international&#8221; rating if we were honest about how corrupt and self serving our MP&#8217;s really are.</p>
<p>Phew, lucky we can cover up the corruption to get a low corruption score&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563591</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563591</guid>
		<description>Move parliament to the Rangipo desert and put them under canvas.

Lets see them queue up to be elected then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Move parliament to the Rangipo desert and put them under canvas.</p>
<p>Lets see them queue up to be elected then.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: g_</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/how_some_nz_mps_benefit_from_parliamentary_expenses.html#comment-563590</link>
		<dc:creator>g_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33350#comment-563590</guid>
		<description>it would be more cost effective to scrap the whole housing allowances rubbish, just buy a couple of floors on a nearby apartment building and allow non-wgtn mp&#039;s to stay for free.  if they don&#039;t like the room they are given they can stay somewhere else at their own expense.  Perhaps even double-bunk them to half the number of rooms!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it would be more cost effective to scrap the whole housing allowances rubbish, just buy a couple of floors on a nearby apartment building and allow non-wgtn mp&#8217;s to stay for free.  if they don&#8217;t like the room they are given they can stay somewhere else at their own expense.  Perhaps even double-bunk them to half the number of rooms!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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