UN says no tasers

May 21st, 2009 at 11:05 am by David Farrar

The UN has said it is deeply concerned over the introduction of into New Zealand.

This almost certainly means it is a sensible thing to do.

Using the same logic I note that the New Zealand Association of Psychotherapists has criticised the Christine Rankin appointment. This almost certainly means it was in fact a good thing, if the psychotherapists are against it.

Going back to tasers, I wonder why the thinks it is better for Police to shoot criminals dead, rather than tazer them?

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41 Responses to “UN says no tasers”

  1. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    Going back to tasers, I wonder why the UN thinks it is better for Police to shoot criminals dead, rather than tazer them?

    Do you really think tasers are only going to be used in situation where police would otherwise have used firearms?

    I don’t. If they were, then yes, they’re obviously better.

    But I’m prepared to have a bet with you … once tasers are introduced, the number of times a taser is drawn by police, and the number of times one is fired by police, over the next two years, will be substantially higher than the number of times a firearm was drawn, and the number of times one was fired by police over the preceeding two years.

    [DPF: As not all Police are armed, then of course they will be used more. They may have saved a life in Napier recently as all frontline Officers will have them.]

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  2. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Trying hard to give a crap what the UN thinks…. nope couldn’t pull it off.

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  3. EverlastingFire (286 comments) says:

    We shouldn’t take any recommendations from the UN into consideration, whether it be pro-right or left.

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  4. goodgod (1,348 comments) says:

    the UN thinks it’s a good idea for police to be injured while subduing violent people. I believe that was the police’s argument – tazers protect cops.

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  5. Ross Nixon (559 comments) says:

    How far into stupidity and irrelevance and tax grabbing does the UN have to descend before NZ withdraws its membership? I look forward to the day!

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  6. CraigM (694 comments) says:

    Graeme: “…the number of times a taser is drawn by police, and the number of times one is fired by police,…”

    I would be happy if they were drawn more times than they are fired. Surely if the threat of being zapped stops criminal behaviour and firing isn’t necessary, then tazers will be a success.

    I see a reduction in assaults on police, resisting arrest etc..with minimal downside.

    As for the key content of the post, the opinion of the UN: I’m with Murray. I’m unable to find any relevance in anything they say.

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  7. Grant Michael McKenna (1,160 comments) says:

    DPF: “I wonder why the UN thinks it is better for Police to shoot criminals dead, rather than tazer them?”

    Um, well, if that is what they think, they may have a point…

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  8. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    The UN believe that once a 22yr olf kid puts on a Police uniform, he becomes super human. A cross between Stallone and Van Damme!

    From the comfort of their plush UN office in New York, the UN said “Otara and the like cant be that bad, the NZ Police need to approach criminals with a nicer attitude”

    fucking idiots.

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  9. He-Man (270 comments) says:

    The lethal tazer weapons will be misused by NZ police as often as they are misused by US police. Which is very often.

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  10. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Have you got ANY basis for your wild accusation she-male because at present the gun stats and shots fired vs hits and lethal shooting rather indicate that the US police (and WHICH US police are you refering to?) are very different organisitions.

    Of course this based on some elementary facts so you’re probably not familier with them as this doesn’t suit the socialist agenda. No doubt your kind are only one step away from throwing parties at cops funerals in the same way that you think burning New Zealand ensigns on ANZAC Day is some kind of wizard weeze.

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  11. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    If Tasers were part of sharia law enforcement, such as subduing thieves ready for hand amputation, the UN would smile on them.

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  12. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    its like the pepper spray argument.. its misused blah blah blah

    anyone here ever been pepper sprayed? only pieces of shit get to experience the joys of pepper spray and tasers. good. maybe next time they will listen to the Police.

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  13. Monty (978 comments) says:

    I think that while tasers have their place there is nothing like a high velocity lead injection to quickly bring a matter to a quick and lasting conclusion

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  14. david (2,557 comments) says:

    The UN does not “think” anything. Permanently anonymous beauracrats make a very good living writing garbage that is then notified and published as “.. the UN thinks ..” Lets see the author of this “thinking” identified and put in a position of establishing his expertise and authority to make these pronouncements.

    My position would be that if he/she or it would not be a preferred consultant to the NZ Government to report on a proposal then the UN should be told to stick it where the sun don’t shine. I’m sure Trev could demonstrate with a Heineken bottle.

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  15. Ross Miller (1,704 comments) says:

    and I am ‘deeply concerned’ that the UN should seek to intervene in NZ domestic policy.

    Remind please … just which one of the many UN human rights quangos does Zimbabwe chair?

    nuff said

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  16. paradigm (452 comments) says:

    It would be better if the UN focused on more pressing human rights issues, such as people blowing themselves up on school buses and ethnic cleansing (genocide for the un-pc) in Africa rather than the use of stunguns in NZ. Perhaps they do the latter to try to mask their miserable failure at addressing the former.

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  17. Ratbiter (1,265 comments) says:

    I’m with Collins on this. There is a huge difference between our society and the cops who started the LA riots. And the tasers are not used as an interview technique, they are for defence against violent scum bags who are actually attacking cops/innocent people.

    The UN comments (at least, the way stuff reports them) seem to assume NZ is some sort of warlord hell-hole where gangs of white thugs calling themselves “The Police” drive around town beating up on Maoris and youths…

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  18. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Actually dime its not just the pos bad guys who get it, the cops use it on eachother to test it. I got to test the plastic cuffs for the cops and its was the crushed nerve in the base of my thumb that had them change how they put them on the actual bad people. Nothing like using servicemen as guinea pigs. Still at least they didn’t nuke me like they did to my father, thats progess I guess.

    And to all the arsewipes who found themselves face down with the ties going on but haven’t suffered nerve damage, you’re welcome.

    If I’d been breaking into something or smacking someone over I could have gotten ACC.

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  19. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    The UN says it’s a bad idea to jump off a bridge.

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  20. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Murray – you were a cop or in the army?

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  21. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    Oh noooooooo
    We have just received a ‘deeply concerned’
    That just about as a bad as it can get with the UN
    The situation here is now on par with the situations in Darfur, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, North Korea, Somalia, DR Congo and Zimbabwe

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  22. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Army.

    Suprise E&E ex.

    The surprise was it took an entire infantry company half an hour to subdue 20 odd tankies. The hospitial was likewise surpised to have a sudden influx of broken toys too. We evtually cocked the whole thing up by capturing the entire enemy party in the Oxford forest. Seems we hadn’t read the same script as the exercise organisers.

    (Score 3-2 to RNZAC)

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  23. Jeff83 (745 comments) says:

    If used correctly 99% of the time they will do a good deal for the police – who currently face shit which not many of us would want to deal with. If a family member was a cop I would feel safer knowing they didnt have to tackle a dickhead carrying a knife and a hate of cops.

    If I was that dick head I would rather be electricuted with 99% chance of being sweet than being shot and have a high chance of being killed.

    The problem will potentially be their abuse. The solution for this is not not giving cops the tools to do their jobs but rather making the police complaints authority not a joke. Sure allot of us know people who have been at the wrong end of an angry copper who has taken their anger out on someone.

    So again good if used right – but if they are not the person responsible needs to be held responsible.

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  24. Will de Cleene (485 comments) says:

    The availability of Tasers wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference with the Napier siege. And if they’re so damned safe, why won’t the Commissioner of Police Howard Broad submit to a blast from this harmless weapon? If tasers are safe, Howard’s a coward.

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  25. backster (2,174 comments) says:

    I understand two of the members who came up with this decision were Morrocco and China.

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  26. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    The Committee Against Torture, of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights needs to clean its own backyard first.

    Current members come from:

    Chile (chair)

    China (vice-chair)

    Morocco (vice-chair)

    Norway (vice-chair)

    Cyprus

    Ecuador

    Russia

    Senegal

    Spain

    United States

    Navanethem Pillay, a South African national, is the UN Commissioner for Civil Rights. The South African police are far more ruthless than the NZ police. The armed South African police, who seem to like using little whips, might be more humane if they had Tasers.

    Apart from Norway (especially if you like whale meat), the United States (home of the Taser), and perhaps Cyprus (unless you are Turkish) and Spain (if you’re not Basque), the states from which the committe members come have a suspect record on human rights.

    Mind you Keith Locke supported Russia from Stalinist days into its occupation of Afghanistan, so he won’t mind about non-left journalists being bumped off there.

    Here’s the CIA World Fact Book on Morocco, hardly a model of liberal democracy: The country has made improvements in human rights under King Mohammed VI and its press is moderately free. It’s also: “one of the world’s largest producers of illicit hashish; shipments of hashish mostly directed to Western Europe; transit point for cocaine from South America destined for Western Europe”.

    The same sources says of Senegal with its 39.3 per cent literacy rate: “transshipment point for Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin and South American cocaine moving to Europe and North America.”

    Ecuador, with more than a third of its population below poverty line, is also a cocaine transit point, and a major point where international drug dealers launder their money.

    China’s human rights. A joke.

    Cyprus – 210,000 Greek and Turkish Cypriots have been displaced, many of them for over 30 years.

    ALSO, of DPF’s mention of psychotherapists and Rankin. Psychotherapists are flakes, definitely not to be confused with psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, and other reputable psychologists. Psychotherapists are into Freudian dreamland stuff.

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  27. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    China?????

    The people who charge the families for the cost of bullets they use on prisoners… sweet. I stand by my lack of caring as first stated.

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  28. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    I would be happy if they were drawn more times than they are fired. Surely if the threat of being zapped stops criminal behaviour and firing isn’t necessary, then tazers will be a success.

    Yes. Quite right. That’s why I mentioned both.

    The comparison I was proposing was between the number of times firearms were drawn and tasers are drawn, and a second comparison between the number of times firearms were fired, and tazers are fired.

    [DPF: As not all Police are armed, then of course they will be used more. They may have saved a life in Napier recently as all frontline Officers will have them.]

    Then why make this argument: I wonder why the UN thinks it is better for Police to shoot criminals dead, rather than tazer them??

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  29. Grizz (244 comments) says:

    What is wrong with a taser bing used more often than a firearm? Firearms are only used against armed and dangerous crims who are threatening the lives of others. i.e. discharged in extreme situations. With tasers less dangerous crims can be stopped and put through justice. No longer will police have to waste time with prolonged stand offs or chases/persuits or allowing the crims to get away and put innocent people at risk of further crimes.

    Something is wrong when people forget about the rights of innocent people and start supporting the bad guys. I am sure the Crims are laughing at us!

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  30. Grizz (244 comments) says:

    Stephen Wallace would still be alive today if he was tasered rather than shot!

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  31. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    God I really hope that the Police do misuse the Tazer’s.

    First I want them to misuse them on the likes of William Bell, Graham Burton, Bailey Kurariki and David Bain.

    Then they can move onto misusing them on all the other scum out there.

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  32. garethw (205 comments) says:

    Graeme, do you have a link or anything anecdotal as to the proposed rules of engagement for all frontline officers using tasers? If they’re the same as the rules for current discharge of a firearm then it will be very interesting to see the difference in usage patterns you alluded to.

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  33. NOt1tocommentoften (433 comments) says:

    BB- why do you think misuse would be limited to scum? What is to say that it wouldn’t extend to firing it at you if you got lippy over a parking ticket, or shot at someone in your family for a laugh? Slippery argument mate.

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  34. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    I’m more concerned about the psychological impact of knowing that cops are carrying around what are essentially debilitating ranged torture devices that are non-lethal – and therefore can be used without lasting consequences. “Laser-tagging” should be a tactic only used in life-or-death situations.

    I would rather they were kept in police cars to be brought out only in cases of deadly weapons. And certainly never, ever used as a form of crowd control.

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  35. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    garethw – the Operational Evaluation of the New Zealand Taser Trial (192 page pdf here: http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2008/operational-evaluation-of-nz-taser-trial/operational-evaluation-of-nz-taser-trial-2008.pdf) certainly seems to indicate a greater planned use of tasers, in a greater variety of situations, than firearms are currently used.

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  36. kiwireader (45 comments) says:

    I’m completely comfortable with tasers being used more routinely. If Police are confronting people that present as being likely to act violently, and who are not following instructions, zap em I say. Why is that bad? Good way to reslove a situation promptly and safely, and is a good deterrent. They have cameras, so any real misuse that might occur will lead to that cop being held to account (which is great).

    On another related note, have you seen some of the Police recently? Around Wellington there are plenty who look like teenagers, particularly some of the females. I’m sure they are very capable, but lets be honest, if it is just them trying to arrest a 6 foot 4 primate raging on P, they ain’t got a shit show. A taser is a great tool to protect them, and members of the public.

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  37. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    The Committee Against Torture, of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights needs to clean its own backyard first.

    Navanethem Pillay, a South African national, is the UN Commissioner for Civil Rights. The South African police are far more ruthless than the NZ police. The armed South African police, who seem to like using little whips, might be more humane if they had Tasers.

    Apart from Norway (especially if you like whale meat), the United States (home of the Taser), and perhaps Cyprus (unless you are Turkish) and Spain (if you’re not Basque), the states from which the committe members come have a suspect record on human rights.

    Unlike the UN’s Human Rights Council, seats on the Committee Against Torture are held by individuals. Though the countries from which these individuals come may have suspect records, the individuals themselves should be above reproach. Would you have made the same argument against the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination in 1990 by pointing out … “Look – Nelson Mandela’s on it – he comes from South Africa, which has an apartheid system – perhaps the Committee needs to look after its own backyard first”?

    p.s. just to be clear: 1. I’m not really comparing the individuals on the Committee to Mandela; and 2. Mandela was not actually a member of CERD.

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  38. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    I wonder what the UN could recomend to the NZ police, oh how about machetes, like they did in Rewanda, the UN never did anything about that so they must be ok.

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  39. peanut (139 comments) says:

    Has anyone noticed, in the last month since Klark joined the UN, that NZ has been getting alot of negative comments from them?
    It seems to be a weekly occurance in the papers, that the UN has something negative to say about how we do things here. Last week it had something to do with Maori, the week before it was womans pay( I think it was that, or something similiar)

    Klarks tentacles far reaching or pure coincidence?

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  40. georgedarroch (317 comments) says:

    If they’re used, they better have those recording devices on them which are activate when drawn. Because you can bet that a weapon that causes extreme pain and leaves no evidence is going to be misused. I’ve already had the police torturing someone I know with the pain compliance methods they do have.

    They ARE torture weapons. That’s the point.

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  41. garethw (205 comments) says:

    Thanks for the link Graeme – the SOP refer to “protecting yourself or others from physical injury where you can’t do it less forcefully” and specifically that firearms should still be used against offenders armed with firearms themselves.
    So it has nothing to do with an offender armed with a gun

    In about half the cases (~65ish) in the trial it was about those armed with a knife. I’m slightly intrigued as to how these would have been dealt with without Tasers previously – not with fireams surely.

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