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	<title>Comments on: Dom Post editorial on Super</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: s.russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-569097</link>
		<dc:creator>s.russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-569097</guid>
		<description>Grizz, 

I would love to see a higher savings rate, but I fear that higher income will feed straight into higher spending, without other structural changes. Where is the evidence that higher incomes result in higher savings rates? On the face of it higher incomes seem to have the opposite effect - many of the highest income nations are the lowest savers. 

I must also point out that even if Kiwis save heaps and make themselves wealthy in retirement, this does not relieve the Govt of its obligation to keep paying out super to everyone over 65 at 66% of the average wage. So the fiscal problem does not go away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizz, </p>
<p>I would love to see a higher savings rate, but I fear that higher income will feed straight into higher spending, without other structural changes. Where is the evidence that higher incomes result in higher savings rates? On the face of it higher incomes seem to have the opposite effect &#8211; many of the highest income nations are the lowest savers. </p>
<p>I must also point out that even if Kiwis save heaps and make themselves wealthy in retirement, this does not relieve the Govt of its obligation to keep paying out super to everyone over 65 at 66% of the average wage. So the fiscal problem does not go away.</p>
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		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568999</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568999</guid>
		<description>S.russell, &quot;The problem is that NZ Super is index-linked to average wages, so the cost of it rises along with growth&quot;

You should think outside of the square a little. Average wage does not reflect average income. Big problem with New Zealand is our lack of savings. Kiwisaver may correct some of this but it is not the total solution. With economic growth, people should be able to save more and have alternative income above wages earned. A better business environment may cater for more businesses and profit from small and medium enterprises. All this will grow our earnings and tax base outside of wages earned. While wages may need to rise, the rate will be less than for total income.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S.russell, &#8220;The problem is that NZ Super is index-linked to average wages, so the cost of it rises along with growth&#8221;</p>
<p>You should think outside of the square a little. Average wage does not reflect average income. Big problem with New Zealand is our lack of savings. Kiwisaver may correct some of this but it is not the total solution. With economic growth, people should be able to save more and have alternative income above wages earned. A better business environment may cater for more businesses and profit from small and medium enterprises. All this will grow our earnings and tax base outside of wages earned. While wages may need to rise, the rate will be less than for total income.</p>
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		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568992</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568992</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Nandor here. The way to pay for any future government spending is to invest in economic growth and hence the tax base. I may differ on the targets for such investment but the broad thinking is the same. Borrowing 100% to speculate on equity markets is a recipe for economic decline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Nandor here. The way to pay for any future government spending is to invest in economic growth and hence the tax base. I may differ on the targets for such investment but the broad thinking is the same. Borrowing 100% to speculate on equity markets is a recipe for economic decline.</p>
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		<title>By: s.russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568973</link>
		<dc:creator>s.russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568973</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If the Fund had never been set up, NZ would be in a better position to fund future superannuation. That is a fact - not a projection.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry, DPF, but I cannot agree with the second part of that statement.

You may be correct in that the return on the money put into the fund has been (to this specific date) less than the risk free rate of return from (for example) Treasury bonds. BUT, if the money had not been put into the fund what would have happened to it? The answer to THAT question is speculation, not fact. And my speculation is that Labour would have spent it. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Our level of economic growth is what will determine future affordability.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I find it hard to swallow this one too. The problem is that NZ Super is index-linked to average wages, so the cost of it rises along with growth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If the Fund had never been set up, NZ would be in a better position to fund future superannuation. That is a fact &#8211; not a projection.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, DPF, but I cannot agree with the second part of that statement.</p>
<p>You may be correct in that the return on the money put into the fund has been (to this specific date) less than the risk free rate of return from (for example) Treasury bonds. BUT, if the money had not been put into the fund what would have happened to it? The answer to THAT question is speculation, not fact. And my speculation is that Labour would have spent it. </p>
<blockquote><p>Our level of economic growth is what will determine future affordability.</p></blockquote>
<p>I find it hard to swallow this one too. The problem is that NZ Super is index-linked to average wages, so the cost of it rises along with growth.</p>
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		<title>By: bchapman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568970</link>
		<dc:creator>bchapman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568970</guid>
		<description>The Cullen fund is a security blanket to help out future governments who want to fund retirement in case things turn bad. The money that would have been available for other uses, but then again it may have just contributed to inflation and been wasted on things like tax cuts, which would have caused inflation and more foreign debt.  Unless you can find better ways of using the money during an economic boom, I cannot see what the problem with it existing is. I find it far more preferable to the situation that exists in Australia where the funds management industry cream off profit from taxpayers.
As any financial investor will tell you, performance of funds cannot be used to predict future performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Cullen fund is a security blanket to help out future governments who want to fund retirement in case things turn bad. The money that would have been available for other uses, but then again it may have just contributed to inflation and been wasted on things like tax cuts, which would have caused inflation and more foreign debt.  Unless you can find better ways of using the money during an economic boom, I cannot see what the problem with it existing is. I find it far more preferable to the situation that exists in Australia where the funds management industry cream off profit from taxpayers.<br />
As any financial investor will tell you, performance of funds cannot be used to predict future performance.</p>
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		<title>By: davidp</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568948</link>
		<dc:creator>davidp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568948</guid>
		<description>I like the way that the left are promoting the idea that the Cullen Fund provided extremely good returns, but only if you ignore the years when the losses more than wiped out those returns. By pretending that there was no risk in the past, they&#039;ve dreamed up a risk free investment for the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the way that the left are promoting the idea that the Cullen Fund provided extremely good returns, but only if you ignore the years when the losses more than wiped out those returns. By pretending that there was no risk in the past, they&#8217;ve dreamed up a risk free investment for the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Chthoniid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568946</link>
		<dc:creator>Chthoniid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568946</guid>
		<description>Much as I&#039;m enjoying some of the polemics from the left, this has to be recognised as a change that makes very little difference to future capacity to pay superannuation.

9/10ths of national super will continue to be met- with or without these contributions- through taxpayers.  
Kiwi-saver has been made more accessible by reducing the contributions to the 2% formula.
The architect of the Cullen Fund said it ought to be funded out of surpluses, not borrowing.
The Cullen Fund is underperforming- even during finanically benign conditions.  Note that these funds weren&#039;t conjured out of thin air.  They were taken from households and businesses.  So we have basically deprived households and businesses of savings and capital to generate wealth.  It&#039;s gone to a fund that is not meeting it&#039;s targetted returns.  You have to be pretty nuts to consider borrowing money to put more into this fund as a smart idea. 

This is a far dumber way to provide for future retirement income than trying to lift growth and productivity in this economy.  A small increase in the long run growth rate for the economy will cover the hypothesised 3% gap easily- and without the risk of dumping borrowed money into ailing equity markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much as I&#8217;m enjoying some of the polemics from the left, this has to be recognised as a change that makes very little difference to future capacity to pay superannuation.</p>
<p>9/10ths of national super will continue to be met- with or without these contributions- through taxpayers.<br />
Kiwi-saver has been made more accessible by reducing the contributions to the 2% formula.<br />
The architect of the Cullen Fund said it ought to be funded out of surpluses, not borrowing.<br />
The Cullen Fund is underperforming- even during finanically benign conditions.  Note that these funds weren&#8217;t conjured out of thin air.  They were taken from households and businesses.  So we have basically deprived households and businesses of savings and capital to generate wealth.  It&#8217;s gone to a fund that is not meeting it&#8217;s targetted returns.  You have to be pretty nuts to consider borrowing money to put more into this fund as a smart idea. </p>
<p>This is a far dumber way to provide for future retirement income than trying to lift growth and productivity in this economy.  A small increase in the long run growth rate for the economy will cover the hypothesised 3% gap easily- and without the risk of dumping borrowed money into ailing equity markets.</p>
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		<title>By: nandor tanczos</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568939</link>
		<dc:creator>nandor tanczos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568939</guid>
		<description>seems pretty obvious to me that if you want to afford to pay super in the future, invest in NZ&#039;s capacity to do so (education, R&amp;D, infrastructure etc)  rather than play the sharemarket. Thats why the Greens opposed it in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seems pretty obvious to me that if you want to afford to pay super in the future, invest in NZ&#8217;s capacity to do so (education, R&amp;D, infrastructure etc)  rather than play the sharemarket. Thats why the Greens opposed it in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: He-Man</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568936</link>
		<dc:creator>He-Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568936</guid>
		<description>John Key ripped the super fund good and proper. Its a disgusting mess that future generations will have to clean up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Key ripped the super fund good and proper. Its a disgusting mess that future generations will have to clean up.</p>
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		<title>By: racer1</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568935</link>
		<dc:creator>racer1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568935</guid>
		<description>&quot;Redbaiter
Through all of the propaganda and lies to the contrary, this one measure shines through- there is no way the government can care for the aged because socialism has destroyed this country’s prosperity.&quot;

No, that is completely untrue, if you can&#039;t see why then that is because your a gormless knuckle dragging moron and there is no point even trying to explain to you why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Redbaiter<br />
Through all of the propaganda and lies to the contrary, this one measure shines through- there is no way the government can care for the aged because socialism has destroyed this country’s prosperity.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, that is completely untrue, if you can&#8217;t see why then that is because your a gormless knuckle dragging moron and there is no point even trying to explain to you why.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Snack</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568925</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Snack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568925</guid>
		<description>There was also a letter to the Editor this morning from Cullen, suggesting that if there were to be no Super Fund contributions for another 10 years that they should rename it &quot;the English Fund&quot;. 

Time for a snarky letter to the Dom I think, along the lines:

A reply to Michael Cullen, as Bill English has merely implemented exactly the tactics with regard to contributions to the super fund that you set out when introducing the fund, that is contributions from surpluses, your suggestion is farcical. We should instead focus on the grossly incompetent stewardship you exhibited while Finance Minister for 9 years that has led to the forecast of a decade of deficits. You had 9 years of almost unprecedented good luck with benign overseas conditions, and you entirely stuffed it up by a shameless vote buying unsustainable expansion of government spending.

I suggest you should fade into a quiet but extremely well paid retirement, well paid mind you by the very taxpayers you screwed for years. If you poke your head out with such  dishonest comments you will receive all the derision for your unpleasantly self serving and corrupt behaviour that you deserve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was also a letter to the Editor this morning from Cullen, suggesting that if there were to be no Super Fund contributions for another 10 years that they should rename it &#8220;the English Fund&#8221;. </p>
<p>Time for a snarky letter to the Dom I think, along the lines:</p>
<p>A reply to Michael Cullen, as Bill English has merely implemented exactly the tactics with regard to contributions to the super fund that you set out when introducing the fund, that is contributions from surpluses, your suggestion is farcical. We should instead focus on the grossly incompetent stewardship you exhibited while Finance Minister for 9 years that has led to the forecast of a decade of deficits. You had 9 years of almost unprecedented good luck with benign overseas conditions, and you entirely stuffed it up by a shameless vote buying unsustainable expansion of government spending.</p>
<p>I suggest you should fade into a quiet but extremely well paid retirement, well paid mind you by the very taxpayers you screwed for years. If you poke your head out with such  dishonest comments you will receive all the derision for your unpleasantly self serving and corrupt behaviour that you deserve.</p>
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		<title>By: Redbaiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/dom_post_editorial_on_super.html#comment-568916</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbaiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=33796#comment-568916</guid>
		<description>So before the economic theorists get in here and start throwing numbers about with gay abandon, let me say what the bottom line of this issue really is. 

Through all of the propaganda and lies to the contrary, this one measure shines through- there is no way the government can care for the aged because socialism has destroyed this country&#039;s prosperity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So before the economic theorists get in here and start throwing numbers about with gay abandon, let me say what the bottom line of this issue really is. </p>
<p>Through all of the propaganda and lies to the contrary, this one measure shines through- there is no way the government can care for the aged because socialism has destroyed this country&#8217;s prosperity.</p>
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