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	<title>Comments on: The ballot for private member&#8217;s bills</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575922</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575922</guid>
		<description>Basically Garretts bill will allow people to defend themselves from scum by any means nessessary and not worry about the law trying them as crims..

Its about to propel ACT into the heights of popularity with Mr and Mrs NZ.....

Watch the crim lovers on the left howl like bitches over this.


;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically Garretts bill will allow people to defend themselves from scum by any means nessessary and not worry about the law trying them as crims..</p>
<p>Its about to propel ACT into the heights of popularity with Mr and Mrs NZ&#8230;..</p>
<p>Watch the crim lovers on the left howl like bitches over this.</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: William Fussey</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575690</link>
		<dc:creator>William Fussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575690</guid>
		<description>I would have liked to have seen Sir. Roger Douglas&#039;s bill drawn...would be good to see the pollies debating VSM!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have liked to have seen Sir. Roger Douglas&#8217;s bill drawn&#8230;would be good to see the pollies debating VSM!</p>
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		<title>By: KiwiGreg</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575463</link>
		<dc:creator>KiwiGreg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575463</guid>
		<description>@Alex M - as far as I can see (on a 2 second read I admit) the main purpose of the Fitzsimmons bill is to criminalise the selling of biofuels unless that are registered as &quot;sustainable&quot;.  It seems selling petrol would still be ok though.  I wasn&#039;t sure that the problems in New Zealand were caused by too few crimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alex M &#8211; as far as I can see (on a 2 second read I admit) the main purpose of the Fitzsimmons bill is to criminalise the selling of biofuels unless that are registered as &#8220;sustainable&#8221;.  It seems selling petrol would still be ok though.  I wasn&#8217;t sure that the problems in New Zealand were caused by too few crimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575364</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575364</guid>
		<description>Agree with Murray. Not keen to see any legislation emanating from Ms Bradford in the foreseeable future. I just simply do not trust her motives nor do I think she is a good representative of the people.

As an unelected list MP she represents the negative side of MMP. She would never have been admitted to Parliament under FPP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Murray. Not keen to see any legislation emanating from Ms Bradford in the foreseeable future. I just simply do not trust her motives nor do I think she is a good representative of the people.</p>
<p>As an unelected list MP she represents the negative side of MMP. She would never have been admitted to Parliament under FPP.</p>
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		<title>By: Chthoniid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575217</link>
		<dc:creator>Chthoniid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575217</guid>
		<description>Quite possibly. 

The point however, is that for whatever reason, the plan is to remove resource-rights from our trading partners and gift them to approved certification bodies.   And the Delahunty plan is to do so in a way that flies in the face of most of the recent international environmental treaties we&#039;ve signed up to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite possibly. </p>
<p>The point however, is that for whatever reason, the plan is to remove resource-rights from our trading partners and gift them to approved certification bodies.   And the Delahunty plan is to do so in a way that flies in the face of most of the recent international environmental treaties we&#8217;ve signed up to.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575209</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575209</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In effect, it denies that sovereign states (generally) have the competence to determine if their exports are ‘legal’ and ’sustainable’. &lt;/i&gt;

I haven&#039;t read the Bill myself, but I suspect Delahunty would say &#039;it denies that sovereign states (generally) have the *inclination* to determine if their exports are &#039;legal&#039; and &#039;sustainable&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In effect, it denies that sovereign states (generally) have the competence to determine if their exports are ‘legal’ and ’sustainable’. </i></p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read the Bill myself, but I suspect Delahunty would say &#8216;it denies that sovereign states (generally) have the *inclination* to determine if their exports are &#8216;legal&#8217; and &#8217;sustainable&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575208</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575208</guid>
		<description>The bills are there http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/06/18/2-out-of-2-the-members-ballot-goes-green/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bills are there <a href="http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/06/18/2-out-of-2-the-members-ballot-goes-green/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/06/18/2-out-of-2-the-members-ballot-goes-green/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chthoniid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575194</link>
		<dc:creator>Chthoniid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575194</guid>
		<description>Delahunty&#039;s bill basically adopts an &#039;guilty until proven innocent&#039; approach to timber imports.  In effect, it denies that sovereign states (generally) have the competence to determine if their exports are &#039;legal&#039; and &#039;sustainable&#039;.  The rights to export timber products would be given to approved international certification bodies (perhaps like the FSC).  

This would also be a unilateral action that could be subject to WTO sanction (we are after all, going to say to other sovereign states that they are too feckin&#039; stupid to be trusted with their own resources, so it&#039;s up to the newest colonial power in the globe to take charge- the Green movement- to do that for them).

Note that we have agreed to a number of international environmental treaties (like the CBD) promising that we would only undertake multilateral action for environmental approval.  Likewise we are eschewing other international multilateral approaches like CITES.  Of course, CITES only requires a non-detriment standard rather than positive proof of sustainability, hence is less onerous to developing countries.  The cost for sustainable forestry enterprises in developing countries to demonstrate that they are in fact, sustainable, can be a major financial and expertise hurdle.  By analogy, the ongoing efforts to show that the CAMPFIRE programme was sustainable in Zimbabwe, went a long way to killing off the success of these initiatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delahunty&#8217;s bill basically adopts an &#8216;guilty until proven innocent&#8217; approach to timber imports.  In effect, it denies that sovereign states (generally) have the competence to determine if their exports are &#8216;legal&#8217; and &#8217;sustainable&#8217;.  The rights to export timber products would be given to approved international certification bodies (perhaps like the FSC).  </p>
<p>This would also be a unilateral action that could be subject to WTO sanction (we are after all, going to say to other sovereign states that they are too feckin&#8217; stupid to be trusted with their own resources, so it&#8217;s up to the newest colonial power in the globe to take charge- the Green movement- to do that for them).</p>
<p>Note that we have agreed to a number of international environmental treaties (like the CBD) promising that we would only undertake multilateral action for environmental approval.  Likewise we are eschewing other international multilateral approaches like CITES.  Of course, CITES only requires a non-detriment standard rather than positive proof of sustainability, hence is less onerous to developing countries.  The cost for sustainable forestry enterprises in developing countries to demonstrate that they are in fact, sustainable, can be a major financial and expertise hurdle.  By analogy, the ongoing efforts to show that the CAMPFIRE programme was sustainable in Zimbabwe, went a long way to killing off the success of these initiatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Hakiwai</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575183</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Hakiwai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575183</guid>
		<description>What exactly would &quot;unsustainable biofuel&quot; be?  The very term biofuel refers to the fact it comes from living sources - canola, sugar cane, tallow and others.  

Would an unsustainable biofuel be made from Kakapo, Chatham Island robin, Loch Ness Monsters?

And Delahunty&#039;s bill demanding that imported timber products be produced from sustainable logging....does that mean a piece of furniture made from the last tree in the world would be banned from New Zealand?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What exactly would &#8220;unsustainable biofuel&#8221; be?  The very term biofuel refers to the fact it comes from living sources &#8211; canola, sugar cane, tallow and others.  </p>
<p>Would an unsustainable biofuel be made from Kakapo, Chatham Island robin, Loch Ness Monsters?</p>
<p>And Delahunty&#8217;s bill demanding that imported timber products be produced from sustainable logging&#8230;.does that mean a piece of furniture made from the last tree in the world would be banned from New Zealand?</p>
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		<title>By: IdiotSavant</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575173</link>
		<dc:creator>IdiotSavant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575173</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;No right Turn, who hasn’t done much of his usual “in the Ballot” posts recently.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s because there hasn&#039;t been a ballot in 18 months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No right Turn, who hasn’t done much of his usual “in the Ballot” posts recently.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s because there hasn&#8217;t been a ballot in 18 months.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas O'Kane</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575166</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas O'Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575166</guid>
		<description>I just set up the website www.nzmembersbills.wordpress.com to follow the ballot. It will use resources from here, and No right Turn, who hasn&#039;t done much of his usual &quot;in the Ballot&quot; posts recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just set up the website <a href="http://www.nzmembersbills.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzmembersbills.wordpress.com</a> to follow the ballot. It will use resources from here, and No right Turn, who hasn&#8217;t done much of his usual &#8220;in the Ballot&#8221; posts recently.</p>
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		<title>By: mjanderson</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575165</link>
		<dc:creator>mjanderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575165</guid>
		<description>Private members bills are an important component to political participation in Parliament. It allows bills to be considered from outside the acting government.

Even if they are not passed it helps add to the legislative debate on the topic and the construction of future legislation regarding the topic.

I would personally like to see the Sustainable Biofuels Bill passed, as it holds principles similar to the amendment to the Biofuel Act (since repealed) put forward last year. Effectively asking the question - Why bother making Biofuels if they are not sustainable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Private members bills are an important component to political participation in Parliament. It allows bills to be considered from outside the acting government.</p>
<p>Even if they are not passed it helps add to the legislative debate on the topic and the construction of future legislation regarding the topic.</p>
<p>I would personally like to see the Sustainable Biofuels Bill passed, as it holds principles similar to the amendment to the Biofuel Act (since repealed) put forward last year. Effectively asking the question &#8211; Why bother making Biofuels if they are not sustainable?</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575143</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575143</guid>
		<description>Ta IS. Street&#039;s one sounded lovely actually, if a little tricky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ta IS. Street&#8217;s one sounded lovely actually, if a little tricky.</p>
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		<title>By: side show bob</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575142</link>
		<dc:creator>side show bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575142</guid>
		<description>Boy not much there to give anyone a hard-on. Looks like more of the same old shit from the commies and two bobs, trying to peddle their snake oil. 5 and 1 look like they could actually have some substance but the rest can be shredded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy not much there to give anyone a hard-on. Looks like more of the same old shit from the commies and two bobs, trying to peddle their snake oil. 5 and 1 look like they could actually have some substance but the rest can be shredded.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575128</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575128</guid>
		<description>Goff forgot to send the rest through - too busy contemplating the Choundry affair...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goff forgot to send the rest through &#8211; too busy contemplating the Choundry affair&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: IdiotSavant</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575125</link>
		<dc:creator>IdiotSavant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575125</guid>
		<description>Stephen: with National, they&#039;re in government, so I can understand why they&#039;d prefer to simply lobby the Minister rather than take a chance in the ballot.  As for Labour, I&#039;m hoping they&#039;ll make a more impressive showing in the next ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen: with National, they&#8217;re in government, so I can understand why they&#8217;d prefer to simply lobby the Minister rather than take a chance in the ballot.  As for Labour, I&#8217;m hoping they&#8217;ll make a more impressive showing in the next ballot.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575120</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575120</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;No, each MP can have only one Bill in the ballot. So the most the Greens could have is 9 (which they did have in this ballot). It does reveal something about MPs from Labour and National though - that many of them either don’t care enough about anything to draft one or are too lazy to bother drafting one.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, that would appear to be revealing. Sure they&#039;re busy, but surely they&#039;d prefer to spend time debating their own Bills rather than someone else&#039;s..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No, each MP can have only one Bill in the ballot. So the most the Greens could have is 9 (which they did have in this ballot). It does reveal something about MPs from Labour and National though &#8211; that many of them either don’t care enough about anything to draft one or are too lazy to bother drafting one.</i></p>
<p>Yes, that would appear to be revealing. Sure they&#8217;re busy, but surely they&#8217;d prefer to spend time debating their own Bills rather than someone else&#8217;s..</p>
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		<title>By: alex Masterley</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575115</link>
		<dc:creator>alex Masterley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575115</guid>
		<description>Just read the Fitzimmons bill.
As it happens I agree with the philosophy behind it but defining the term &quot;sustainable biofuel&quot; so it matches the sustainablity principles in the bill as it stands will be a very difficult exercise for the draughter to undertake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read the Fitzimmons bill.<br />
As it happens I agree with the philosophy behind it but defining the term &#8220;sustainable biofuel&#8221; so it matches the sustainablity principles in the bill as it stands will be a very difficult exercise for the draughter to undertake.</p>
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		<title>By: ephemera</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575109</link>
		<dc:creator>ephemera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575109</guid>
		<description>big bruv,

Bradford&#039;s proposed bill has no effect on the outcome of this current referendum.

Can you please qualify what &#039;stopping democracy&#039; entails? 

I read the bill Toad linked to, and I think it seemed pretty sensible - a simple improvement to ensure clarification of questions submitted to the clerk of the house. I actually see there to be a lot of benefit in this. It means we can start debating the real issues in a referendum, and not their semantics.

You may not agree with Bradfords politics (I don&#039;t) or her motives behind this bill (which are clear), but calling it an attempt to stop democracy sounds just plain hysterical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>big bruv,</p>
<p>Bradford&#8217;s proposed bill has no effect on the outcome of this current referendum.</p>
<p>Can you please qualify what &#8217;stopping democracy&#8217; entails? </p>
<p>I read the bill Toad linked to, and I think it seemed pretty sensible &#8211; a simple improvement to ensure clarification of questions submitted to the clerk of the house. I actually see there to be a lot of benefit in this. It means we can start debating the real issues in a referendum, and not their semantics.</p>
<p>You may not agree with Bradfords politics (I don&#8217;t) or her motives behind this bill (which are clear), but calling it an attempt to stop democracy sounds just plain hysterical.</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_ballot_for_private_members_bills.html#comment-575106</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34235#comment-575106</guid>
		<description>tossed out, tossed back in perpetuity. Really GOOD fucking grasp you commie have of democracy toad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tossed out, tossed back in perpetuity. Really GOOD fucking grasp you commie have of democracy toad.</p>
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