General Debate 10 July 2009
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July 10th, 2009 at 7:02 am
The Yanquis are missing you already!!
Meanwhile Gordon Brown saves the World at G8 plus 12. Er that would be G20?
The climate is changing FFS. Quick tax everyone!
July 10th, 2009 at 7:06 am
Did you see this too GM?
“Arctic sea ice thinned dramatically between the winters of 2004 and 2008, with thin seasonal ice replacing thick older ice as the dominant type for the first time on record. The new results, based on data from a NASA Earth-orbiting spacecraft, provide further evidence for the rapid, ongoing transformation of the Arctic’s ice cover.”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090708103212.htm
July 10th, 2009 at 7:16 am
Cerium – in the 1950s two US submarines surfaced at the North Pole – there was no ice there – it was open ocean.. Santa obviously had his water wings.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:27 am
It’s not uncommon to have breaks in the ice in the summer, submarines have surfaced there in various years.
http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm
The research is measuring the total volume of ice. It is not replenishing as much in the winters.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:36 am
So how does taxing people help?
It would be much more credible to offer tax breaks and subsidies. Then I might become a believer.
What do you think has happened to the Toy making Elfs?
July 10th, 2009 at 7:37 am
I hope you have all bought your water-wings
July 10th, 2009 at 7:46 am
going by the frost outside I think the ice is replenishing nicely down here in oamaru…..be nice if a bit of the climate change crap was actually true…..might warm this winter up a bit…..lucky my CO2 producing slow burning fire place is working well eh?
July 10th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Physics 101 from Dr Cliff Ollier
“Firstly, shelf ice is floating, because it is less dense than seawater. When floating ice melts, there is no change in sea level. This is a bit of elementary physics known as Archimedes’ Principle. Secondly, the breakup of ice shelves is normal and inevitable. Ice caps grow by precipitation in the uplands, flow at depth, and at the ice front the ice either melts or breaks off as icebergs. The ice never simply keeps flowing to the equator. Icebergs are produced in both times of climate warming and times of cooling, so they tell us nothing of climate change.”
July 10th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Clearly its submarines that are causing gorebul warming.
Ban them!
July 10th, 2009 at 8:24 am
So your back in NZ now DPF, bloody depressing aye.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:24 am
What’s your point Siobhan? While that may be news to you it’s not news to anyone else.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Anyone see the full moon last night? gave me a bit of a chuckle.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Get out of the wrong side of bed AndyCap?
July 10th, 2009 at 8:37 am
So will Santa be able to use any ice for take off? Or will he revert to Floats like so many Millenia before?
Funny how the Journos go to the Artic in Summer to declare how bad things are, and then to the Antartic 6 months later.
Never do the BBC go to either Pole in the Winter. Polar extremes frozen rock solid again, and very dark. Not much of a story I guess?
July 10th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Glutaemus Maximus says:
“What do you think has happened to the Toy making Elfs?”
Fear not GM; they are safe and sound as a consequence of new hole in the icecap fencing regulations introduced by the North Pole City Council, requiring that:
1. The hole is fenced off by a solid non-melting wall with a minimum height of 1.2m, and not having any footholds, nor any elevated terrain or structures within a distance of 50m.
2. The access gate handle must be placed at a height of 35m above the ground.
3. No permanent or temporary seating is permitted within the icecap hole enclosure area in order to reduce the prospect that Santa might doze off while the little elves are splashing about.
4. No diving or jumping into the polar icecap hole is permitted.
5. All igloo windows within a 5 kilometre radius of the icecap hole enclosure must be restricted to an opening distance of 50mm and all igloo doors must be bolted shut permanently.
6. No swimming when submarines are present.
7. No swimming competitions (hardly relevant to a pool code, but I think its a Liarbore lead Council up there)
8.No feeding of the polar bears
July 10th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Interesting to see the negatives, I just posted reports without pushing a view, one report tended to support climate change, the other was against. Do people not like to see something they think is against their view?
GM, I am dubious about the benefits of the approach being taken.
I know climate change is happening, it always has. I know humans affect it. The main questions are:
- is the human effect significant enough to need to do something about it
- if so, is there anything significant that can be done about it
We should be working a lot more towards conserving resources and polluting less regardless.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Changing the subject (GW is boring me speechless) I heard Kate Wilkinson being interviewed on Radio Live this morning about the mass medication of folic acid in bread. What is it about politicians? It has been documented that she is against the compulsory addition of folic acid and yet when asked if it was going to happen she couldn’t give a yes or no answer. Instead she burbled on about some Australian protocol that we had signed up to. Are we no longer a sovereign nation? 85% of us don’t want it so just don’t do it!
July 10th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Big Bruv – if it depresses you you can leave. Freedom of movement is a great human right. Why not enjoy it. Honestly though, it is depresses you so much, why not leave?
July 10th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Glutaemus Maximus says:
“What do you think has happened to the Toy making Elfs?”
Fear not GM; they are safe and sound as a consequence of new hole in the icecap pool and fencing regulations introduced by the North Pole City Council, requiring that:
1. The hole is fenced off by a solid non-melting wall with a minimum height of 1.2m, and not having any footholds, nor any elevated terrain or structures within a distance of 50m.
2. The access gate handle must be placed at a height of 35m above the ground.
3. No permanent or temporary seating is permitted within the icecap hole enclosure area in order to reduce the prospect that Santa might doze off while the little elves are splashing about.
4. No diving or jumping into the polar icecap hole is permitted.
5. All igloo windows within a 5 kilometre radius of the icecap hole enclosure must be restricted to an opening distance of 50mm and all igloo doors must be bolted shut permanently.
6. No swimming when submarines are present.
7. No swimming competitions (hardly relevant to a pool code, but I think its a Liarbore led Council up there).
8. Gay whales have priority use of the facilities (see comment re 7 above).
9. No feeding of the polar bears (see comment re 7 above).
10. No fun permitted (see comment re 7 above).
July 10th, 2009 at 8:49 am
No Siobhan, I’m in a chirpy mood today.
OTGO, What’s Joe publics opinion to do with it unless there’s about to be an election (and even then)? 85% of us didn’t want Bradford’s bill either.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Why has The Herald gone and screwed with a perfectly good website?????
July 10th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Jesus I am livered – I just saw that this Hungrian fella Ambash was only convicted of manslaughter and not murder because of the provocation defence and its supposed application in homosexual panic cases! Absolutely disgusting. Repeal the defence!
July 10th, 2009 at 8:57 am
“Jesus I am livered” – too much wine?
July 10th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Andrew W 8.49- yes but we have a National led govt now. The social engineers have gone – haven’t they?
July 10th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Yea right.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:25 am
“..Do people not like to see something they think is against their view?..”
you haven’t been coming here for very long..?..
..eh cerium..?
this is the home of more than a few who do seem to be a tad over-one-eyed/blinkered..
..(bless them..!..eh..?)
..you’ll get to know who they are..after a while..
but..diversity..?..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 10th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I wonder if a woman who defended herself against a would be rapist could use the heterosexual panic defense?
Nah; she wouldn’t need to – people only get “livered” over politically protected classes like homos and wimmen.
Oh my; hasn’t political correctness shrunk peoples shrunken peoples capacity for rational thought.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:33 am
I watch Deadliest Catch on Discovery Channel. In their winter crab season they always have to contend with ice coming down through the Bering Straits and clogging up half of the Berings Sea. I thought the ice never reached that far south in these Latter Times of the world’s climate history.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Cerium, since you asked:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/02/people_like_congenial_news/
July 10th, 2009 at 9:37 am
OTGO,
This might answer some of your questions on the folic acid issue: http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/to-folate-or-not-to-folate
On a different point … anyone see this?
“The Government has discussed expanding Kiwibank amid calls for it to beef up the state-owned bank to help push interest rates lower.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2580792/Talks-held-on-growth-of-Kiwibank
Guess that’s another Progressive-Labour innovation that you can tick off as “a success”.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Good one Andrew. Paint ourselves in ideological corners. But preaching with the converted can get boring. It’s good to stir up some alternatives.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Complete change of subject – can anyone remember what happened 42 years ago today?
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/07/42-years-on.html
July 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
It’s an instinct, a product of evolution, for millions of years looking after yourself, your family, and your peers has been more important than being right.
July 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Yesterday Brian Smaller mentioned that people had been fined for letting people sit on their roof and watch the Hamilton 400. The “crime” wasn’t getting a free peek at the cars, the crime was sitting on a roof.
If you look at the details it beggars belief; this is Nanny State with whip and jackboots pretending to care about you.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/sitting-on-your-roof-is-illegal/
July 10th, 2009 at 11:43 am
I saw the people sitting on their roof. The physical laws of mechanics would suggest that ten people weighing around 900kg would likely collapse the light framing used to support the tin of an old house. It was a fuckin dumb thing to do. Complete ignorance.
July 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am
kiwipolemicist,
I agree with you there. Do you have similar views on how the Nanny State interferes with cannabis cultivation and enjoyment?
July 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am
It’s a bit of a drop in the ocean compared to the all the other rules the state feels it needs to impose on us for our own good. On the other hand, if the roof had collapsed it could have been nasty, and taxpayers, as well as those on the roof, would be paying.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Ryan:
Do you have similar views on how the Nanny State interferes with cannabis cultivation and enjoyment?
I most certainly do, and they’re all here:
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/the-pointless-death-of-an-undercover-policeman/
July 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Andrew W:
On the other hand, if the roof had collapsed it could have been nasty, and taxpayers, as well as those on the roof, would be paying.
That’s the trouble with living in a Socialist state: someone else does something stupid and you wind up wearing part of the cost.
For another example of this go to
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/slices-of-life-from-auckland-hospital/
July 10th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
On the nanny state theme, let’s not forget that our spineless government is going to go ahead with the forcible medication of bread, while the Food Safety Minister has the cheek to claim that National has a philosophy of “personal choice”!
The New Zealand Organisation for Rare Disorders also has a totalitarian attitude when it comes to folic acid in bread.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/govt-forces-folic-aci-into-bread/
July 10th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
yep
July 10th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Interesting how God Complexes develop. I see the G8 are going to hold global temperatures at a maximum of 2degree above industrial age temps. WTF? on so many levels!
Do these dickheads have super human powers (G Brown may have, a very unusual looking specimen)?
Have they not heard of sun activity, activity in oceans etc
Surely this have to be a piss take or poor reporting?
July 10th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
southtop:
They do indeed have a God complex, but they don’t have supernatural powers. They’ll try and control temps with Emissions Taxations Scams, which the IMF has admitted are taxes and a means of taking money from rich countries and giving it to the poor ones.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/the-emissions-trading-scheme-global-socialism/
July 10th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Southtop – Not superheros. Only Obama. He has already stated that he will stop the earth warming (he has succeeded obviously as it is fucking cold today) andturn back the rising seas. Who needs the other G8 when the world has The One?
July 10th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Kiwipolemicist,
Cool. I am a big fan of consistency. Thanks for the link.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Ryan:
You’re welcome. My position as a classical liberalist is simple and consistent, i.e. anything that doesn’t violate the non-aggression axiom is fine with me. Although I have a personal moral code that precludes many things that do not violate the non-aggression axiom, I will not attempt to stop other people doing them.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/non-aggression-axiom/
I have to depart from Blogland now.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
But Brian the climate IS changing. It was bloody cold here in the Top of the South this morning but now it is showing 15degrees in my yard. Maybe this is Nick Smith’s fault?
July 10th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Southtop – you could be onto something there.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I went to America as the NZ delegate to the New York Mirror Youth Forum and while staying with friends in Palo Alto watched the great US hope launch their sputnik blow up on the launch pad.
Also the Edsel was launched – just about as big a disaster. I think earlier that year the Russians had launched their Sputnik.
I didn’t look so this might all be hopelessly self centred.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Oh, I also saw the first run of video tape machines being assembled in Palo Alto at the Ampex factory where my friends father was an electronic engineer. They were about the size of a small kitchen.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
BLenheimer’s disease.
I did the maths in my head and got it wrong.
I was writing about 1957.
I certainly remember the change to decimals. And as it happens, during that 1957 trip a family friend came in to the house in Palo Alto and showed me this new small calculator they had for the shop. I peered at it and kept asking “But does it add up money?” and they looked at me as though I was half witted – after some strange conversations the penny finally dropped. With Decimal currency any calculator would add up money!
July 10th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
AG
““The Government has discussed expanding Kiwibank amid calls for it to beef up the state-owned bank to help push interest rates lower.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2580792/Talks-held-on-growth-of-Kiwibank
Guess that’s another Progressive-Labour innovation that you can tick off as “a success”.”
Since nobody else has taken the bait, I will. First, WTF? Kiwibank hasn’t done anything to help push interest rates lower. The BEABs (Big, Evil Aussie Banks) have (if not a reason, then at least) an excuse for not pushing their interest rates down; it is some bullshit about the cost of funds in offshore markets…accurate bullshit, if you believe the recent article on interest.co.nz. Kiwibank has no such pressure; it is government-funded, yet since day 1 it has kept its rates at a fixed and cozy 0.5% below the BEABs’. Push interest rates down? My arse. Forget the stories about the BEABs price-gouging; Kiwibank is teaching them all a lesson.
“Progressive=Labour innovation” … another innovation into shafting the NZ taxpayer!
July 10th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Kiwipolemicist and Ryan – and it seems that cannabis cultivation and enjoyment could save California from financial ruin…
Smoke dope to save California, dude
… failing that, it could at least help to dull the pain
July 10th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
If anyone on this blog has acquaintances who live in Oz and travel around victoria at all, I encourage them to boycott BP at the Flying horse on the East side of Warrnambool. I want these highway robbers out of business
Die Flying Horse BP Die
July 10th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Inventory2 [9:58 am],
“Complete change of subject – can anyone remember what happened 42 years ago today?”
Yep, I was 14 days short of my 5th birthday and still remember decimal currency coming in.
A lot happened around that time – the late sixties, that left lasting impressions on my young mind.
As well as decimal currency in 1967, the Wahine storm 1968 [still remember seeing corrugated iron flying about 500m up in the sky and asking my mother why parents would send kids to school in that weather with all the debri flying around], and the moon landing in 1969.
Other interesting yardsticks [metre-sticks doesn't have the same ring] I remember:
3rd form, 1976 still used log tables at school. [just like my father had]
4th form, 1977 slide rules came in.
5th form, 1978 basic scientific calculators came in; allowed to use them in School Cert.
6th form, 1979 advent of the programmable calculator, but still sent punch cards in for maths/computing.
7th form, allowed programmable calculators into exams. So new back then that the exam observers didn’t know how to check the memories to prevent cheating [not that I did, of course!].
Do the ‘younger generation’ even remember a time without PCs, the web, cell phones, etc? [what's a log table?]
Gee, I feel old now. Think I’ll go have a nap.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Offshore Kiwi,
“Forget the stories about the BEABs price-gouging; Kiwibank is teaching them all a lesson.
“Progressive=Labour innovation” … another innovation into shafting the NZ taxpayer!”
Not sure I understand your position here. Do you want Kiwibank to operate as a commercial entity that generates profits (by loaning at a rate that is more attractive to borrowers than the BEABs, yet is above its (comparatively cheaper) cost of funds), pays a dividend to the government, and thus makes more money available for things like health and education (i.e. recycles that money within NZ, rather than ? Or do you want Kiwibank to operate as a purely social/charitable enterprise that loans money at near-cost, charges lower interest rates, offers the government no return on the capital it has invested, thus effectively creating a transfer of wealth from every taxpayer to the few who borrow money from Kiwibank? Or do you want no Kiwibank, just the BEABs charging their higher rates of interest, sending their profits to Australia, thus increasing our already parlous balance of payments situation?
My point about Kiwibank being “a success” is that (1) you don’t hear much anymore from those doomsayers (i.e. Rodney Hide) who predicted Kiwibank would fail; (2) it appears National has moved from wanting to privatise to embracing the institution; and (3) a bunch of Aussie economists want to copy us … and we all know how important it is for NZ to have international validation! (see http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10583310 )
July 10th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
D’oh … posted too quick, and no edit!
Meant to write (i.e. recycles that money within NZ, rather than exports it to Australia?)
July 10th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
It would be interesting to know the percentage of mortgage defaults and provisions for bad loans made by Kiwibank vis a vis the Aussie ones before getting too enthusiastic about its’ expansion.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Andrew W notes:
I agree. I’m so glad Labour put an end to all this pointless risk-taking behaviour, like climbing a bloody mountain just because it’s there (as opposed to, say, needing to get to the other side or some rational reason). I mean such bloody-minded stupidity in the pursuit of “fun” could lead to the loss of innocent lives, such as that of your mountain guide for instance.
Oh wait… is it just that risk-taking behaviour isn’t okay for the poor dumb folks of Hamilton, but still okay for the moneyed power elite? Sorry, I’ll shut up then.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
backster.
Agreed. Any evidence these figures are significantly higher for Kiwibank vis a vis the Aussie ones?
July 10th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Rex,
Isn’t there also an irony in the Hamilton Council cracking down on the “unsafe” spectators of an event involving high performance motorcars flying around a circuit deliberately designed so that any lapse in concentration/judgment results in a high-speed crash? An event the Council pours quite considerable sums of ratepayer money into?
July 10th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Its sad that white hunters who go out hunting are now been targeted by the mongrel mob and other tosser fat belly maoris in the bush ( i would shoot the fat pricks, but maori who are only 10% of NZ who are the FIRST NATION are endangered), john boy key the wimp (OUR PM ????????) who leads us groveled to the fat belly in charge maori party for their support and the crims took this grovelling as a green light to do what maoris do ,be crims if you can get away with it ,GOOD ONE NATIONAL and johnboy key who luvs every one except the white middle class working man who is his main voting base , 2.5 years to go john boy and you could be gone
July 10th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Wall Street Journal 10 July2009
“King Canute at the G-8
World leaders tell the Earth’s temperature not to rise”
“When King Canute of lore wanted to teach his citizens a lesson, he set his throne by the seashore and commanded the tides to roll out. Canute’s spirit was back in business this week at the G-8 summit in Italy, where the assembled leaders declared that the world’s temperature shall not rise: “We recognize the scientific view that the increase in global average temperature above pre-industrial levels ought not to exceed 2 degrees [Celsius],” or 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit, said the summit declaration.
So let it be written, so let it be done.”
Todays WSJ. It would seem that I am not the only one who thinks that man controlling the climate is as idiotic as King Canute controlling the tides!!!!!!!!!!!
July 10th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
What’s up with Key planning to piss away tax payer money to all these pacific countries? We’re getting poorer and he’s increasing handouts to them by the millions every year.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-government/news/article.cfm?c_id=144&objectid=10582007&ref=rss
Looks like we’re even paying for a little hip-hop tour too! A little something Helen was famous for.
I think we’ve heard the last of any tax cuts…
July 10th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Sorry to raise AGW again, but thought some might be interested in this little fact, since the break-up of the floating ice shelves in Antartica is often shrugged off using the argument that they’re also floating.
That’s true.
But unfortunately, those ice shelves act like flying buttresses, holding in all the ice on the land in Antartica. So if those big shelves go, then nothing happens, sea-level-wise. But if that land ice then slides into the sea, we’re all living in coastal properties.
As readers know, I’m an AGW skeptic, but facts like that give me pause for thought.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
… so then joewellbelowAverage …
… and you still have a vote ..??!!
July 10th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
>>>kiwipolemicist (339) Vote: 7 0 Says:
July 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Yesterday Brian Smaller mentioned that people had been fined for letting people sit on their roof and watch the Hamilton 400. The “crime” wasn’t getting a free peek at the cars, the crime was sitting on a roof.
If you look at the details it beggars belief; this is Nanny State with whip and jackboots pretending to care about you.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/sitting-on-your-roof-is-illegal/<<<
They are not bothered about you but in this crazy PC society they might receive a “please explain” note if the roof collapsed. It is a result of the “Why doesn’t somebody do something about it” syndrome .. God help us all.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
I have yet to understand why some men who claim to be hetrosexual think their virginity is so important that it justifies killing somebody, and why our society permits it to be a defence against a murder charge. Are they latent homosexuals that they get so hung up? Why cannot they simply say “NO” unless of course it is a definite rape situation. I think they are a collection of wankers frankly.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Jcuknz, wankers is putting it mildly, when killing somebody is concerned.
July 10th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
Labour MP and former lawyer Charles Chauvel is spearheading a bid to remove provocation as a defence in criminal cases.
The defence is often used in court by defendants to justify violent attacks if provoked by a victim.
OK, so Clayton 216 Stab Wounds Weatherston is a scumbag. This makes Charlie an opportunistic scumbag.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am
The moral fiber of society, honesty of mankind etc etc is in the toilet, it gets worse by the week or month.
When will humans as a whole say enough is enough??? I know i should not hold my breath, but it is ever going to happen. Is the PC-itis going to drown us all in the Politically correct crap?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:24 am
The honeymoon is over! Oh, wait…
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2009/4398/
In early July support for John Key’s Coalition Government is 58.5% (up 1%) comprising National Party 54% (up 2%), Maori Party 3% (up 0.5%), ACT NZ 1% (down 1.5%), and United Future 0.5% (unchanged) according to the Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll conducted June 22 — July 5, 2009.
Support for Opposition parties is 41.5% (down 1%); Labour Party 31.5% (down 1.5%), Greens 8% (up 0.5%), NZ First 1% (unchanged), Progressive Party 0.5% (unchanged) and Others 0.5% (unchanged.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:03 am
so..act is on 1%…margin of error is over 1%
theoretically…act could be in the minus..
..eh..?
whoar..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)