Labour confirms support of compulsory mass medication
NZPA report:
Deferring a decision on whether folic acid should be added to bread was “a cheap cop out” in response to lobby group scaremongering, the Labour Party said today. …
Ms Dyson said the previous government considered a great deal of information before deciding to go ahead with the introduction of folic acid to bread.
Labour – the party of mass medication – even if we don’t know whether it causes cancer or not.
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Tags: bread, folic acid, Labour, Nanny State
July 19th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Agreed DPF – this is a matter of principle, regardless of the evidence re efficacy. The Government, at either national or local level, has no right to impose mass medication on people, however beneficial it may be (and only to a few in this case anyway).
Let’s roll back the drinking water fluoridation as well.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
And get the iodine out of our salt!
July 19th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Toad – you forgot about removing iodine from salt too.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
“…however beneficial it may be (and only to a few in this case anyway).”
And fuck everyone else, Toad?
It would be acceptable if they explored other options to medicate the few. The fact they didn’t, speaks volumes. I wonder what the 5th Liarbore govt’s response would have been if it was discovered that a certain substance distributable in bread, helped prevent prostate cancer?
July 19th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
…even if we don’t know whether it causes cancer or not.
More scaremongering.
1. There is no evidence folic acid causes cancer.
2. There are many things we eat, many things we use, where it can be said “we don’t know whether it causes cancer or not.”
What next, Farrar? An anti immunisation campaign?
[DPF: Immunisations are not compulsory. I would recommend them, but would not make them compulsory. So your example is perfect to show the stupidity of making something compulsory]
July 19th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
MyNameIsFuckwit, you might care to remember you are commenting on another person’s personal blog. Kindly show some respect to your host by addressing him as David or Mr Farrar.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Robbie (Sir Dove Myer Robinson left wing Mayor of Auckland 40+ years ago) would be turning in his grave. He was utterly opposed to water supply fluoridation.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
MNIJ said: What next, Farrar? An anti immunisation campaign?
Different issue MNIJ – immunisation is just being encouraged – people still have a choice.
thomasbeagle said: …you forgot about removing iodine from salt too.
That’s an interesting one. Just checked the salt packaging in the kitchen, and it says: “Ingedients: salt, anti-caking agent”‘. No mention of iodine. Mind you, iodate salts are chemically “salts” – the term is generic, and although most people think it means sodium chloride, it can technically include all sorts of other chemicals, including sodium or potassium iodides and iodates.
Need to look into that one further. I recall the days that salt was specifically labelled as to whether it contained iodine salts or not. Seems that doesn’t happen any more.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
“”Ms Dyson said the previous government considered a great deal of information before deciding to go ahead with the introduction of folic acid to bread”".
Yeah Right” … Annette Kings whip more like it.
Now where is she… Hiding behind Ms… D for Dumb.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
This is just so Labour. Make everyone take this stuff whether is works or not because of some belief it might just help a few pregnant women avoid having a spina bifida baby. If the problem was widespread then yes. But the problem is small and localised. Go Labour.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
AF said: Kindly show some respect to your host by addressing him as David or Mr Farrar.
That’s a bit precious Adolf. I’m referred to by all sorts of nasty names by righties in comments on my g.blog posts. I don’t expect to be addressed respectfully, all I expect is that people put up some argument to support their position rather than hurl abuse with no argument. Although I disagree with MNIJ’s position, I don’t see him as being disrespectful.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
@racer: you can buy LOTS of salt that hasn’t been tampered with. You shouldn’t be using //that// table salt anyway. I won’t bore you with the chemical process it goes through. yep – chemical process… for salt? ain’t that just, like, salt? Nope. Anyway, do yourself a favour and get some different types of salt – including Celtic sea salt. Your taste buds will be going WOT? I’ve been using that OTHER crap?
July 19th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Racer1 – Iodine is not compulsory in salt. It is merely available (though recommended and widely used).
You can buy salt without iodine in it, such as sea salt, non iodised table salt, certified organic salt.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
certified organic salt?????????????
How can halogen ionic salts be organic?
Truly the bullshit brigade have dumbed down the kiwi population to the point of imbecility.
Is it any wonder we got nine years of Labour
July 19th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
More flip flops and round-abouts from just another pathetic administration!
At first we had a health minister passionate about the idea and prepared to enforce it at all costs, then along came John and that all mysteriously changed….
It shows John’s weak leadership and his outright inability to control his cabinet, there was also the Bennett case and all the domestics with that as well.
NZ elected what it believed represented its interests best – I guess this would be second best?
National needs to decide what it will and will not support and stick to it! This constant mind-changing debacle is sending everyone up the wrong alley!
July 19th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Fale, National is doing something that Labour never did. That is actually listen to the people who voted them in. Clearly, the vast majority of NZers don’t want to be mass medicated through their bread. Therefore, it is only right that the government takes heed of this and acts accordingly.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Toad fucks it up again. Iodized salt is labeled accordingly. What other falsehoods are you promulgating today?.
He doesn’t seem to get it that he is commenting on someoneelse’s blog. Of course the socialists think they own everything that belongs to anybody.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I like John Key, but fuck me if National don’t have some lessons to learn about dealing with the media.
Who let that fucknut Wilkinson on Q&A in the first place? Offering a personal opinion and then saying you’re powerless? Jesus Christ. What next?
Control the agenda, John. Otherwise you have it controlled for you by a bunch of fucking bakers.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
tknorriss the issue here isn’t about democracy or the power of the people – I support that completely and acknowledge the lack of it contributing to the downfall of our previous administration.
The issue is in fact the weakness of our current administration and the lack of professionalism. In this case, the minister of health supporting the initiative and later being told by John Key that its about to be postponed.
Clearly with a minister in charge of such a ministry the relationship between the minister and her leader should indeed be a professional one with a strong element of communication and team work – arguably this wasn’t the case and I would confidently call that a flip flop and a bad call, not just for the professionalism of our minister but for the leadership of our PM that is consistently on the line and being questioned on a regular basis, even by members of its own camp.
I support the movement completely to refrain from this acid mass medication BUT National should have done so from the start not just weeks out from giving it the go-ahead.
July 19th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Andrei,
I had to chuckle at that. Yes, salt by its nature is inorganic. But you can buy “certified organic” salt which presumably means it is free of both iodine and anti-caking agents. The “certified organic” badge is one obviously provided by the organics industry to promote those food products that are chemical free and meet their criteria.
In this case, clearly a bit of a have, but if people are happy to buy food without additives or chemicals, it probably sends the right signals.
July 19th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Correct Fale, but at least the right decision has been reached. In the meantime, National can look at the handling of the issue, and reflect on how badly it has been handled.
July 19th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
My thoughts too ( FAL 6.47) I like the guy.. but he needs to brush up on his parties communication and team work.. He’s only taking steps now because of strong public opinion.. the same as the Labour leadership did.. on the Foreshore and Seabed Act.. There will come a time when running with public opinion will bite him and his party on the arse. New Zealanders really want strong leadership not flip flops. But it also highlights where he and his party really sat on this one.. before all the public commotion.. In itself a real worry.. It stinks of nanny state acceptance from National and its leader.
July 19th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
We better go easy on John Key… we don’t want to give Bill English any idea’s .
And we certainly don’t want to give Labour a glimmer of hope.
Just to ruin it all… I must say ACT’s Rodney Hide is making a lot of sense on this issue and his stand on local council spending.. I yous’t to see him as a little fool in dancing shoes.. Now I see a true leader where Roger Douglas once stood.. I just look at it as I see it … Rodney not ACT.
July 19th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
None of us can really be surprised that Labour were more than willing to dose the whole population in order to help a very very very small percentage of the population…… A total crock of shit…..
There is for sure many easy ways in which one can take the needed folic acid if required…..
You make me piss blood all you lefties whom can support something like this!!!!!!
July 19th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
very brave pink tie John Key PM NZ, very brave,
kicks out a weakling folic agreement,
be real brave pink tie, PM NZ,
refuse an onslaught of foreshore claims at our expense
pink tie wimp PM NZ NAT wants to stay in power for 10 years,
and is prepared to sell out foreshore and make us pay,
weakling pink tie pink tie PM NZ suck
July 19th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Yes, nasty old Labour. So the UK, the US, Australia, and Canada are also evil socialist “supporters of compulsory mass medication” as well, right? Considering they all have fortification programs either in play or on the way? With CDC research suggesting 25% less neural tube defects in their newborns?
But no. Rather than joining with standard, rational, scientific Western nations we’ve gone off on a National party spin of hysteria and partisan rubbish. Sickening.
July 19th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
AF said: Toad fucks it up again. Iodized salt is labeled accordingly.
I didn’t say it wasn’t. I just said I could not be sure from the labeling one in my kitchen. “Salt”chemically, has a different meaning from “salt” in the vernacular. If it is pure salt, it should say “sodium chloride (salt)” on the label. Chemically, “salt” can mean any salt of any metal.
July 19th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Wow…Toad wants more rules and more things banned, who would have thought that?
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Apart from drugs of course.
July 19th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Is it just me or is it the height of hypocrisy for left wingers to be arguing about the health of an unborn child when these are the same people who support late term abortions?
July 19th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
bruv, that’s naughty. I just said I wanted labeling to accurately reflect the content – not anyhting banned.
Don’t you agree we should have the right to know what we’re eating?
Antibiotics with your chicken, sir?
I go to considerable time and expense to ensure pork and chicken I eat is organically and humanely grown. (At risk of philu coming onto this thread) I hope that your commitment to animal welfare means you do too bruv.
July 19th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I bake my own bread. I do regularly add large quantities of folic acid into my baking so that I don’t have to moan if the bakery shop around the corner from me use folic acid themselves or not in baking the government’s bread. Oops, I mean their own bread.
MyNameIsJack, why don’t you bake your own bread just the same as I do? In other words, why don’t you setup your own bakery small business and then you can provide that demand (folic acid) in the market.
One sentence for you MyNameIsJack. Private businesses (private properties) do belong to the owners and not the consumers nor the bureaucrats at the Beehive. They conduct their businesses in the way they like to run them, not because of some fuckn’ consumer lobbying groups or politicians. Respect business private ownerships. If you don’t like what they produce for the market, then get your lazy ass out there and setup a bakery small business.
July 19th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Many years ago there was an outbreak of goitre at O’Rorke Hall, an Auckland University student hostel. The hostel was purchasing un-iodised salt which was cheaper in bulk than iodised salt.
July 19th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Is it me, or does Labour happily promote anything that is Female friendly even if it maybe wholly detrimental to Men’s health and well being.
Oh, and happiness!
July 19th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Fale Andrew Lesa wrote:
You must be a partisan hack because there’s no justification for the terse comments above.
I’m not a John Key sycophant – I was a Brash backer – but I recognise he’s been remarkably successful so far as Prime Minister, especially when you consider the current economic conditions. Lets analysis:
- Sewing up the deal with the Maori party quickly and efficiently.
- Sacking Worth & avoiding the trap laid for him by Goff.
- Economic policy – avoiding a credit rating downgrade – cutting budget growth by ~ a billion dollar while still funding the bloat from Labour’s previous budgets. In fact his approach for dealing with the economic down turn has been cited in the Wall Street journal.
- Being a statesman. The former money trader did a fine job on his recent Pacific tour.
- The Beehive is employing less ‘yes man’ and spin doctors than under Helen’s reign.
- Appointing Lockwood Smith as the House Speaker – parliament is a more democratic place.
- John Key is still backing Section 59, so he is prepared to go out on a limb. He’s not a populist on everything.
And something that is important to me is how John Key treats his enemies and detractors. And so far he’s treated them with respect and decorum while making his point. Clark’s tongue was merciless from the outset.
So Fale…. do you even follow politics. It’s okay if you’re a Key hater, but don’t try and pretend it’s based on any rational assessment. This bread issue is small fry stuff.
July 19th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
big bruv (4037) Vote: 0 1 Says:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Is it just me or is it the height of hypocrisy for left wingers to be arguing about the health of an unborn child when these are the same people who support late term abortions?
Unlike the god botherers who are against abortions, and yet their god seems to perform them all the time?
[DPF: Immunisations are not compulsory. I would recommend them, but would not make them compulsory. So your example is perfect to show the stupidity of making something compulsory]
Sometimes making some things compulsory has a greater good benefit, e.g.,it was the mass x-ray programme that helped eliminate TB from western countries, something that is just beginning to creep back in as un examined immigrants from TB countries arrive.
July 19th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Apropos the iodised salt comments, as from 27 September 2009, iodised salt will be compulsory in bread products:
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/Standard_2_1_1_Cereals_v1031.pdf
July 19th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
So that’s why all the fuss about the folic acid, it just one of the mass medications and Labour wanted it to just go on through rather than draw attention to all the others.
July 19th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Deanknight – I have been pointing that out for the last two months here but no one takes any notice. We need to get out of our food standards agreement with Australia.
July 19th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I am soooo glad Labour aren’t in power anymore. They definitely would have pushed this through irregardless of the wishes of NZers as they have demonstrated so many times before.
There is a certain something lacking in Government today, and it’s called COMMON SENSE.
July 20th, 2009 at 12:25 am
I am pleased National has ditched this daft idea. Personal responsibility says if you need the stuff, you go and buy it. End of. Contraceptives in KFC still sounds like a good idea though
, especially in the Mike Williams freebes round election time!
July 20th, 2009 at 3:58 am
MNIJ:
Really? Perhaps read this study where a researchers attempted to attribute a reduction in colon cancer to folic acid fortification but the results suggestion the opposite. Extract below.
July 20th, 2009 at 6:35 am
“There is a certain something lacking in Government today, and it’s called COMMON SENSE.”
And if you watch TV and read papers and listen to talkback and look at all the postings on Stuff and the Herald all you see is balance, carefully considered opinions and COMMON SENSE?
Toad makes an important point about what we may be fed by some big businesses already – hormones and antibiotics. And how many poisons come through the food production system? No, it’s not compulsory, but shouldn’t we know about it?
July 20th, 2009 at 9:48 am
The stupidity of adding Folic Acid to bread is that apparently a woman would need to consume 11 slices of bread a day, to receive the dosage required for it to be effective.
July 20th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I just read in the Listener (JAne Clifton) that if it weren’t for modern processing stripping it out, bread would contain folate anyway.
July 20th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Wholegrain bread has folate. Folate and folic acid are both forms of vitamin B9, the former being the naturally occurring one. To my knowledge, the studies that suggest a link with prostate cancer are studies of folic-acid supplementation, which is what would be added to bread.
The refining of wheat is to make bread sweeter (higher GI), softer, last longer (many of the healthy elements that cause bread to go off are removed) and make things easier in the milling process (I think).
July 20th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
“Mass medication” Yeah right. Great propaganda. But Folic acid is essential to human life.
If you don’t eat it you die. You could equally call it “Essential food of life”. I hope those of
you worried by”mass medication” consider how a change of spin can affect your thinking.
The economics are straightforward. It is cheaper to give everyone a little bit than pay for
the human misery that is spina bifida. Equally I trust that all those so opposed to giving a
Vitamin to everyone in bread will be paying for the upkeep of those tragically affected by
NTDs. I don’t want to. Out with your wallets. Real right wingers vote for keeping costs down.
Finally, why does NZ always have to ignore the facts of science
(yes folks, the benefits and lack of harm of folic acid are well researched and well documented)
and reinvent the wheel? Are we that dumb? Three years to study what has been “out there” for
decades? Duh.
John Key. Pinko Jandal.
July 20th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
If folic acid is well documented thehawkreturns, why don’t you let the individual decide? . Who decided that folic acid is better for me?? If I wanted some, I would go down to my local vitamin store and buy some. Oh, wait, the same government who was trying to shove folic acid down my throat, are the same people who tried to take the vitamins off the shelves and decide which ones would be good for me bringing the costs up through the roof and letting the pharmaceutical companies win the fight between natural remedies and medication. Helen Clark lost the last election because she thought her government knew what was good or not good for us. And who decides that?? Some bureaucrat?? This isn’t about costs, it is about choice. That means less power to the government.
July 21st, 2009 at 7:56 am
If Jackp you are concerned that folic acid represents unwarranted government power than I think you should be looking at
its ability to raise taxes, form an army and police force and even safety belt and crash helmet legislation.
Let us consider the biggest “mass medication” in NZ. You may laugh but you need to think about it. Cheese in food.
You can hardly buy a meat pie and many other food items without cheese. Just look at the labelling (I guess you are opposed to Government compulsion to label food?). Cheese is cheap, plentiful and a food “filler”. It has seriously well documented harmful effects on your cardiovascular sytem. It has no particular benefits aside from being food albeit high in fat. Yet is almost forced into the food chain by Fonterra to dump the stuff as cheaply as possible. Try to avoid cheese in your diet for a week!
You didn’t offer to pay for the spina bifida kids by the way. Funny that. I thought this was a right wing blog site. Where is that charity eh?