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	<title>Comments on: Questions</title>
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	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: J Mex</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586675</link>
		<dc:creator>J Mex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586675</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if the story has been updated, but I went to read the article his problem seems pretty clear to me:

He owned a lifestyle property and recently bought another house and an inner city apartment. My guess (I don’t know for sure) is that he wouldn&#039;t have the income cover and probably used his equity in his existing property to purchase two investment properties. Looks like they are both cashflow negative and he was chasing the capital gain. i.e. speculating. Let me re-itterate -  Even if he didn&#039;t lose his job, he couldn&#039;t cover the interest.

Then he says this “The apartment was purchased for “$260-something”, but he did not know the current market value.” This doesn&#039;t strike me as a particularly sophisticated investor - He doesn&#039;t know exactly how much he paid and what his investment property is now worth?

My advice to this guy. Sell both of your extra properties. Meet the market. Don’t ask the taxpayer to cover your three mortgagages.

Yes. It hurts but nobody is crying for the hundreds of big and smalltime property developers and speculators who are in the same boat as this after they too were burned by the decrease in the property market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if the story has been updated, but I went to read the article his problem seems pretty clear to me:</p>
<p>He owned a lifestyle property and recently bought another house and an inner city apartment. My guess (I don’t know for sure) is that he wouldn&#8217;t have the income cover and probably used his equity in his existing property to purchase two investment properties. Looks like they are both cashflow negative and he was chasing the capital gain. i.e. speculating. Let me re-itterate &#8211;  Even if he didn&#8217;t lose his job, he couldn&#8217;t cover the interest.</p>
<p>Then he says this “The apartment was purchased for “$260-something”, but he did not know the current market value.” This doesn&#8217;t strike me as a particularly sophisticated investor &#8211; He doesn&#8217;t know exactly how much he paid and what his investment property is now worth?</p>
<p>My advice to this guy. Sell both of your extra properties. Meet the market. Don’t ask the taxpayer to cover your three mortgagages.</p>
<p>Yes. It hurts but nobody is crying for the hundreds of big and smalltime property developers and speculators who are in the same boat as this after they too were burned by the decrease in the property market.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586612</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 04:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586612</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://big-news.blogspot.com/2009/07/i-worked-hard-but-i-may-lose-my-home.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Here&#039;s the information that the NZ Herald left out&lt;/a&gt;, assuming that the couple only earn 21k.

WINZ was wrong to turn  these people away.  On that income  they&#039;d be entitled to $91.20 a week in unemployment benefit, accommodation supplement and possible additional support if they have a high mortgage. So why didnt Labour find that out before telling the NZ Herald of this mans plight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://big-news.blogspot.com/2009/07/i-worked-hard-but-i-may-lose-my-home.html" rel="nofollow"> Here&#8217;s the information that the NZ Herald left out</a>, assuming that the couple only earn 21k.</p>
<p>WINZ was wrong to turn  these people away.  On that income  they&#8217;d be entitled to $91.20 a week in unemployment benefit, accommodation supplement and possible additional support if they have a high mortgage. So why didnt Labour find that out before telling the NZ Herald of this mans plight?</p>
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		<title>By: Tauhei Notts</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586607</link>
		<dc:creator>Tauhei Notts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586607</guid>
		<description>A highly qualified and very experienced 60 year old engineer on $750 per week.
Bullshit.
New Zealanders with no qualifications whatsoever will not get out of bed to milk cows unless they are on an effective remuneration package of at least $40,000 per annum.
And the missus, presumably about the same age, can only get a 32 hours per week job on the minimum wage.  An experienced woman of her age (no pregnancy problems or sick children problems - the best employees to get) who is only on the minimum wage must have absolutely nothing going for her.  What kind of wanker (sorry I meant banker) would lend money to dropkicks such as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A highly qualified and very experienced 60 year old engineer on $750 per week.<br />
Bullshit.<br />
New Zealanders with no qualifications whatsoever will not get out of bed to milk cows unless they are on an effective remuneration package of at least $40,000 per annum.<br />
And the missus, presumably about the same age, can only get a 32 hours per week job on the minimum wage.  An experienced woman of her age (no pregnancy problems or sick children problems &#8211; the best employees to get) who is only on the minimum wage must have absolutely nothing going for her.  What kind of wanker (sorry I meant banker) would lend money to dropkicks such as this.</p>
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		<title>By: trout</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586568</link>
		<dc:creator>trout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586568</guid>
		<description>Apparently a friend of Burgess approached Key&#039;s office for assistance.  The office requested more information which was not forthcoming.  Key has said that a assistance is available on application to WINZ - $91.00 per week I understand.    When Labour raised the issue in the House they were smacked down by the facts.  However there is a corollory to this; that is that the Labour Government in their attempts to create more &#039;takers&#039; (who traditionally vote left) than &#039;givers&#039; who vote right, have created a whole now paradigm in Government assistance.   Welfare is now not a hand up but a subsidy designed to allow people to continue their lifestyle whatever happens.  Unfortunately the Herald is unlikely to publish a more factual story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently a friend of Burgess approached Key&#8217;s office for assistance.  The office requested more information which was not forthcoming.  Key has said that a assistance is available on application to WINZ &#8211; $91.00 per week I understand.    When Labour raised the issue in the House they were smacked down by the facts.  However there is a corollory to this; that is that the Labour Government in their attempts to create more &#8216;takers&#8217; (who traditionally vote left) than &#8216;givers&#8217; who vote right, have created a whole now paradigm in Government assistance.   Welfare is now not a hand up but a subsidy designed to allow people to continue their lifestyle whatever happens.  Unfortunately the Herald is unlikely to publish a more factual story.</p>
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		<title>By: grumpyoldhori</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586565</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpyoldhori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586565</guid>
		<description>Engineer or tradesman ?
Some in the metal industries are called engineers when they are tradesmen.
$50 k for a person with a BE with twenty years experience, I find that bloody low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Engineer or tradesman ?<br />
Some in the metal industries are called engineers when they are tradesmen.<br />
$50 k for a person with a BE with twenty years experience, I find that bloody low.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulL</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586549</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586549</guid>
		<description>What kind of redundancy package did this guy get?  20 years of working, I&#039;d expect some level of redundancy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What kind of redundancy package did this guy get?  20 years of working, I&#8217;d expect some level of redundancy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586450</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586450</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s why people should take out income protection insurance, so in cases like this they can continue on until they find a new job.

It&#039;s not rocket science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s why people should take out income protection insurance, so in cases like this they can continue on until they find a new job.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not rocket science.</p>
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		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586419</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586419</guid>
		<description>This story does not indicate if his or his wife&#039;s pay were before or after tax. It does not tell us how much his existing loan is.

I agree there is information missing. In 1992, houses were relatively cheap compared to today. New Zealand was just coming out of a recession. If he earns $50,000 today, he would have been earning much less than that when he bought the property and the borrowings at the time would have reflected that as well. 

My conclusion here is that he has refinanced for reasons undisclosed and his misfortune today is the product of this, not just because he took out a mortgage in 1992. I agree with others here, if he had not borrowed any more since 1992, banks would allow him to have a mortgage holiday until he found meaningful employment again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This story does not indicate if his or his wife&#8217;s pay were before or after tax. It does not tell us how much his existing loan is.</p>
<p>I agree there is information missing. In 1992, houses were relatively cheap compared to today. New Zealand was just coming out of a recession. If he earns $50,000 today, he would have been earning much less than that when he bought the property and the borrowings at the time would have reflected that as well. </p>
<p>My conclusion here is that he has refinanced for reasons undisclosed and his misfortune today is the product of this, not just because he took out a mortgage in 1992. I agree with others here, if he had not borrowed any more since 1992, banks would allow him to have a mortgage holiday until he found meaningful employment again.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586404</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586404</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think the angle that “because my wife is working so I cant get welfare” is the key&lt;/i&gt;

Relevant angle considering the Goff comments that have been in the news, but poorly researched or written.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think the angle that “because my wife is working so I cant get welfare” is the key</i></p>
<p>Relevant angle considering the Goff comments that have been in the news, but poorly researched or written.</p>
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		<title>By: KiwiGreg</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586391</link>
		<dc:creator>KiwiGreg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586391</guid>
		<description>I think the angle that &quot;because my wife is working so I cant get welfare&quot; is the key - essentially this is the poster child for Labour&#039;s welfare for everybody proposal for the dole.  Having him live in Key&#039;s electorate just makes it a vein even more worth mining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the angle that &#8220;because my wife is working so I cant get welfare&#8221; is the key &#8211; essentially this is the poster child for Labour&#8217;s welfare for everybody proposal for the dole.  Having him live in Key&#8217;s electorate just makes it a vein even more worth mining.</p>
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		<title>By: Glutaemus Maximus</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586382</link>
		<dc:creator>Glutaemus Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586382</guid>
		<description>The subject matter living in Helensville, and Quote &quot;In the centre of it&quot; has just sealed my belief that this story is almost entirely contrived.

BULLSHIT from a deadwood media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The subject matter living in Helensville, and Quote &#8220;In the centre of it&#8221; has just sealed my belief that this story is almost entirely contrived.</p>
<p>BULLSHIT from a deadwood media.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulD</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586375</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586375</guid>
		<description>Oops</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops</p>
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		<title>By: Kimble</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586359</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586359</guid>
		<description>I reckon the information that is being left out would blow the entire story to pieces. This reeks of a journalist writing a story and then going out looking for someone to fit the description. Of course, with a deadline drawing near they would be willing to take anyone.

They may have purchased the property 20 years ago, but I am willing to bet they also have a huge mortgage now. Probably borrowed for renovations and expansion, or maybe they own another property the reporter didnt bother to mention.

Because the &quot;journalist&quot; obviously left so much out, any speculation we engage in is perfectly valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reckon the information that is being left out would blow the entire story to pieces. This reeks of a journalist writing a story and then going out looking for someone to fit the description. Of course, with a deadline drawing near they would be willing to take anyone.</p>
<p>They may have purchased the property 20 years ago, but I am willing to bet they also have a huge mortgage now. Probably borrowed for renovations and expansion, or maybe they own another property the reporter didnt bother to mention.</p>
<p>Because the &#8220;journalist&#8221; obviously left so much out, any speculation we engage in is perfectly valid.</p>
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		<title>By: unaha-closp</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586349</link>
		<dc:creator>unaha-closp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586349</guid>
		<description>Lifestyle blocks on Old North Rd are worth a good bit, they may well have $500,000+ equity on the property.  So the quote should read:

&lt;i&gt;He now fears he will “soon” lose the lifestyle block the couple have worked 20 years to build –&lt;/i&gt; and walk away with $500,000 in cash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lifestyle blocks on Old North Rd are worth a good bit, they may well have $500,000+ equity on the property.  So the quote should read:</p>
<p><i>He now fears he will “soon” lose the lifestyle block the couple have worked 20 years to build –</i> and walk away with $500,000 in cash.</p>
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		<title>By: Glutaemus Maximus</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586343</link>
		<dc:creator>Glutaemus Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586343</guid>
		<description>The more I think about it, the more this feels like a National Party beat up, as sponsored by the diligently truthful, alcohol nicking, expenses fiddling, immigration scamming, Pledge card robbing Labour Party, and the sleepers in the NZH.

Whaleoil needs to smoke these journalists out. There is a huge furry rodent attached to this story. As ever, not understanding money and in a desperate attempt to paint these folk as stable citizens they have shot themselves in the foot.

Do these folk exist? $50k in Albany as a fully qualified Engineer? Hmmmmmm. More like what the journalist hopes to earn when it has written the required amount of scare stories, to try and reach out to middle NZ.

Feeling like Rochelle Rees, and her unconnected political affiliations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more I think about it, the more this feels like a National Party beat up, as sponsored by the diligently truthful, alcohol nicking, expenses fiddling, immigration scamming, Pledge card robbing Labour Party, and the sleepers in the NZH.</p>
<p>Whaleoil needs to smoke these journalists out. There is a huge furry rodent attached to this story. As ever, not understanding money and in a desperate attempt to paint these folk as stable citizens they have shot themselves in the foot.</p>
<p>Do these folk exist? $50k in Albany as a fully qualified Engineer? Hmmmmmm. More like what the journalist hopes to earn when it has written the required amount of scare stories, to try and reach out to middle NZ.</p>
<p>Feeling like Rochelle Rees, and her unconnected political affiliations.</p>
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		<title>By: MT_Tinman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586333</link>
		<dc:creator>MT_Tinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586333</guid>
		<description>The only real question is why did The Herald publish the story.

Could it be that this is a back-door type method of pushing the dole-for-the-undeserving thing the quasi-commies are trying to weasel their way back to power with at the moment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only real question is why did The Herald publish the story.</p>
<p>Could it be that this is a back-door type method of pushing the dole-for-the-undeserving thing the quasi-commies are trying to weasel their way back to power with at the moment?</p>
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		<title>By: Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586331</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586331</guid>
		<description>Goodness me, there must be thousands of NZers, or for that matter millions of people around the world, who strike rough economic  spots exactly like that from time to time. Time to sell something on Trademe, get those chickens laying eggs to sell at the local farmers market, whatever!! 

Sign of the socialist political climate we have just come out of (?) that such events can hit the headlines, I guess. My grandparents would not be able to understand what is newsworthy about this case - they survived much tougher times and situations without State help.

For what it is worth, I am aware of a acquaintance with serious health issues and much less able to help himself who is in a much worse situation and getting only minimal and inadequate help from the State - a much more justifiable case for State assistance to the needy. In this instance, because the State is failing to deliver the needed help, there is an interesting intervention happening by the community - pretty much as Adam Smith talked about way back when. Socialism has not quite destroyed local community support and charity yet where we live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goodness me, there must be thousands of NZers, or for that matter millions of people around the world, who strike rough economic  spots exactly like that from time to time. Time to sell something on Trademe, get those chickens laying eggs to sell at the local farmers market, whatever!! </p>
<p>Sign of the socialist political climate we have just come out of (?) that such events can hit the headlines, I guess. My grandparents would not be able to understand what is newsworthy about this case &#8211; they survived much tougher times and situations without State help.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, I am aware of a acquaintance with serious health issues and much less able to help himself who is in a much worse situation and getting only minimal and inadequate help from the State &#8211; a much more justifiable case for State assistance to the needy. In this instance, because the State is failing to deliver the needed help, there is an interesting intervention happening by the community &#8211; pretty much as Adam Smith talked about way back when. Socialism has not quite destroyed local community support and charity yet where we live.</p>
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		<title>By: Put it away</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586327</link>
		<dc:creator>Put it away</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586327</guid>
		<description>david ( not DPF) - the term you are looking for is &quot;the greater truth&quot;, which is usually crafted entirely from lies</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>david ( not DPF) &#8211; the term you are looking for is &#8220;the greater truth&#8221;, which is usually crafted entirely from lies</p>
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		<title>By: Put it away</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586326</link>
		<dc:creator>Put it away</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586326</guid>
		<description>This is typical of mainstream media coverage, the numbers aren&#039;t important, just the emotions. Many journos these days seem to have no grasp of when numbers are significant and why, or why not.  We frequently get international transactions reported without mentioning the currency unit, or metric measurements given to some absurd number of decimal places which were converted from someone&#039;s rough guesstimate in feet, or increases and decreases mentioned on their own without any idea of the total.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is typical of mainstream media coverage, the numbers aren&#8217;t important, just the emotions. Many journos these days seem to have no grasp of when numbers are significant and why, or why not.  We frequently get international transactions reported without mentioning the currency unit, or metric measurements given to some absurd number of decimal places which were converted from someone&#8217;s rough guesstimate in feet, or increases and decreases mentioned on their own without any idea of the total.</p>
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		<title>By: Colonel Masters</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/questions.html#comment-586325</link>
		<dc:creator>Colonel Masters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=34953#comment-586325</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s been working hard all his life. Apart from when he was overseas in the 70s. Oh and when he was on ACC (how long is a short stint anyway?).

How much money does he give to his church and why would I want to fund that?

They don&#039;t take &quot;extravagant holidays&quot; - when was their last overseas trip I wonder?

I am certain there is more to this story than meets the eye. I wonder if Phil Goff put him up to it? Is he a member of the Labour Party? Where is Whaleoil on this one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s been working hard all his life. Apart from when he was overseas in the 70s. Oh and when he was on ACC (how long is a short stint anyway?).</p>
<p>How much money does he give to his church and why would I want to fund that?</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t take &#8220;extravagant holidays&#8221; &#8211; when was their last overseas trip I wonder?</p>
<p>I am certain there is more to this story than meets the eye. I wonder if Phil Goff put him up to it? Is he a member of the Labour Party? Where is Whaleoil on this one?</p>
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