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	<title>Comments on: Field&#8217;s guilt and Labour&#8217;s shame</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: Herodotus</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-593153</link>
		<dc:creator>Herodotus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-593153</guid>
		<description>To LC re acommodation corruption- please look at the greens pension setup, and at least the Nats have opened the books to be reviewed what sins are hidden under the bed clothes from past regeimes .e.g refer The Hon Chris Carter spending habits. What is happening here is shooting the messenger. The thing that I think has come out of having someone who was not brought up in any &quot;party system&quot; and has become institutionalised that if nothing else we get a clean out of the old boys school way of doing things and as a country there is some progression to maturing. Perhaps to a level of having evan a real constitution or a upper house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To LC re acommodation corruption- please look at the greens pension setup, and at least the Nats have opened the books to be reviewed what sins are hidden under the bed clothes from past regeimes .e.g refer The Hon Chris Carter spending habits. What is happening here is shooting the messenger. The thing that I think has come out of having someone who was not brought up in any &#8220;party system&#8221; and has become institutionalised that if nothing else we get a clean out of the old boys school way of doing things and as a country there is some progression to maturing. Perhaps to a level of having evan a real constitution or a upper house.</p>
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		<title>By: Mlec</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592967</link>
		<dc:creator>Mlec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592967</guid>
		<description>I think expecting any sort of reasoned debate or coherent thinking from the standard is wishful thinking.
Theirs so much hate over at that site it clouds their thinking.
Too many jackbooted unionist thugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think expecting any sort of reasoned debate or coherent thinking from the standard is wishful thinking.<br />
Theirs so much hate over at that site it clouds their thinking.<br />
Too many jackbooted unionist thugs.</p>
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		<title>By: LUCY</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592892</link>
		<dc:creator>LUCY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592892</guid>
		<description>&quot;This would also be a good time for all MPs to come together and declare this should never happen again, and support an Independent Commission against Corruption that can investigate abuses of office by parliamentarians, senior officials and agencies.&quot;

John Key said this morning that Phillip Field&#039;s case was an isolated incident and there were no other cases of corruption in NZ politics.  Although I fervently believe we need an Independent Commission I wont hold my breath as it would appear that Mr. Key doesn&#039;t/wont believe there is/was anything wrong with the way politicians did business.

To be kind I can only think he is trying to protect NZ reputation overseas. Big mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This would also be a good time for all MPs to come together and declare this should never happen again, and support an Independent Commission against Corruption that can investigate abuses of office by parliamentarians, senior officials and agencies.&#8221;</p>
<p>John Key said this morning that Phillip Field&#8217;s case was an isolated incident and there were no other cases of corruption in NZ politics.  Although I fervently believe we need an Independent Commission I wont hold my breath as it would appear that Mr. Key doesn&#8217;t/wont believe there is/was anything wrong with the way politicians did business.</p>
<p>To be kind I can only think he is trying to protect NZ reputation overseas. Big mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marsden</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592867</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marsden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592867</guid>
		<description>Graeme Edgeler (1027) Vote:  4   0   Says: 

August 5th, 2009 at 2:00 am 
Paul – the short answer to your question is “yes”. The law is still valid.

Graeme - Thank you for that. I was sure that would be the answer of course, but does it not raise constitutional issues where laws (hypothetically) could be passed by the vote of an individual who say was engaging in criminal conduct at the time that the law was passed, but subsequently found guilty of that criminal conduct that would ban him/her, from office? I wonder if such a matter has ever been tested in a court of law, anywhere in the world??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graeme Edgeler (1027) Vote:  4   0   Says: </p>
<p>August 5th, 2009 at 2:00 am<br />
Paul – the short answer to your question is “yes”. The law is still valid.</p>
<p>Graeme &#8211; Thank you for that. I was sure that would be the answer of course, but does it not raise constitutional issues where laws (hypothetically) could be passed by the vote of an individual who say was engaging in criminal conduct at the time that the law was passed, but subsequently found guilty of that criminal conduct that would ban him/her, from office? I wonder if such a matter has ever been tested in a court of law, anywhere in the world??</p>
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		<title>By: Adolf Fiinkensein</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592824</link>
		<dc:creator>Adolf Fiinkensein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592824</guid>
		<description>Patrick Starr.  This family outrage is to be encouraged.  A smart journalist who knows the PI mindset should be able to turn this into an expose of exactly what Labour has been up to in South Auckland these past ten years or so.  

Here&#039;s the headline:

&lt;b&gt;Loyal Servant Shafted By Labour.&lt;/b&gt;

Here&#039;s the subtext:

After years of doing the right thing for Labour by organising heaps of &#039;extra&#039; votes and sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to the party, our father and our family has been treated like dirt.  They knew what our father was doing because they asked him to do it.     blah blah and so on and so forth.

And John Armstrong thinks Labour can heave a sigh of relief because the verdict is out?  He&#039;s dreaming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick Starr.  This family outrage is to be encouraged.  A smart journalist who knows the PI mindset should be able to turn this into an expose of exactly what Labour has been up to in South Auckland these past ten years or so.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the headline:</p>
<p><b>Loyal Servant Shafted By Labour.</b></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the subtext:</p>
<p>After years of doing the right thing for Labour by organising heaps of &#8216;extra&#8217; votes and sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to the party, our father and our family has been treated like dirt.  They knew what our father was doing because they asked him to do it.     blah blah and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>And John Armstrong thinks Labour can heave a sigh of relief because the verdict is out?  He&#8217;s dreaming.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592819</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592819</guid>
		<description>you gotta love this from his step daughter

&quot;Ms Hunter said her stepfather was innocent and accused the Labour Party of orchestrating a conspiracy.&quot;

in keeping with the left strategy of &#039;the truth is nothing, perception is everything&#039; there&#039;ll be a few TPF supporters who wont forget that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you gotta love this from his step daughter</p>
<p>&#8220;Ms Hunter said her stepfather was innocent and accused the Labour Party of orchestrating a conspiracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>in keeping with the left strategy of &#8216;the truth is nothing, perception is everything&#8217; there&#8217;ll be a few TPF supporters who wont forget that</p>
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		<title>By: LC</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592815</link>
		<dc:creator>LC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592815</guid>
		<description>I prefer Taito&#039;s job creation corrupton, vs National&#039;s accomodation corruption.  At least Taito created jobs for people!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer Taito&#8217;s job creation corrupton, vs National&#8217;s accomodation corruption.  At least Taito created jobs for people!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris2</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592806</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592806</guid>
		<description>One issue that always troubled me, that received no attention regardless of the trial outcome, was the propriety of the very extensive &quot;help&quot; Field gave to all these illegal immigrants, doubtless at the expense of his lawfully resident Mangere voters.

MP&#039;s (more especially Electorate MP&#039;s like Field) are elected to represent a specific constituency, but none of these illegal workers/immigrants were lawfully in New Zealand, so they should never have been regarded as constituents - he should not have been making representations on their behalf to Government agencies and Ministers.  

Surely MP&#039;s should confine themselves to representing only those people who are lawfully in this country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One issue that always troubled me, that received no attention regardless of the trial outcome, was the propriety of the very extensive &#8220;help&#8221; Field gave to all these illegal immigrants, doubtless at the expense of his lawfully resident Mangere voters.</p>
<p>MP&#8217;s (more especially Electorate MP&#8217;s like Field) are elected to represent a specific constituency, but none of these illegal workers/immigrants were lawfully in New Zealand, so they should never have been regarded as constituents &#8211; he should not have been making representations on their behalf to Government agencies and Ministers.  </p>
<p>Surely MP&#8217;s should confine themselves to representing only those people who are lawfully in this country?</p>
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		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592805</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592805</guid>
		<description>&quot;Over as ( sic ) Kiwiblog DPF has wet himself with excitement at the Field verdict. Sadly however, he doesn’t get two bullet points into his post before he starts lying.&quot;.


...tee hee hee..vileness from the sub-standard...they just dont know when to bend over and take it do they...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Over as ( sic ) Kiwiblog DPF has wet himself with excitement at the Field verdict. Sadly however, he doesn’t get two bullet points into his post before he starts lying.&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8230;tee hee hee..vileness from the sub-standard&#8230;they just dont know when to bend over and take it do they&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme Edgeler</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592804</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme Edgeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592804</guid>
		<description>Paul - the short answer to your question is &quot;yes&quot;. The law is still valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul &#8211; the short answer to your question is &#8220;yes&#8221;. The law is still valid.</p>
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		<title>By: Haiku Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592803</link>
		<dc:creator>Haiku Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592803</guid>
		<description>naughty farrar, it&#039;s 
not nice to make up quotes out
of thin right wing air</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>naughty farrar, it&#8217;s<br />
not nice to make up quotes out<br />
of thin right wing air</p>
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		<title>By: Murray M</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592801</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592801</guid>
		<description>I hope he gets to share a cell with that hori who was selling dodgy visas to the PI overstayers.  Birds of a feather.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope he gets to share a cell with that hori who was selling dodgy visas to the PI overstayers.  Birds of a feather.</p>
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		<title>By: racer1</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592797</link>
		<dc:creator>racer1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592797</guid>
		<description>&quot;Straight Shooter (59) Vote: Add rating 4  Subtract rating 2   Says:
August 4th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

DPF,
Your preparation of this post, taking into account your background and your connections, will raise some suspicions around the Press Gallery me thinks! I hope it doesn’t backfire.&quot;

Not really, it was fairly obvious what the outcome was going to be, and had it gone the other way &quot;Holy shit!&quot; probably would have sufficed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Straight Shooter (59) Vote: Add rating 4  Subtract rating 2   Says:<br />
August 4th, 2009 at 10:31 pm</p>
<p>DPF,<br />
Your preparation of this post, taking into account your background and your connections, will raise some suspicions around the Press Gallery me thinks! I hope it doesn’t backfire.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not really, it was fairly obvious what the outcome was going to be, and had it gone the other way &#8220;Holy shit!&#8221; probably would have sufficed.</p>
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		<title>By: Glutaemus Maximus</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592793</link>
		<dc:creator>Glutaemus Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592793</guid>
		<description>“Field’s guilt and Labour’s shame”

The title is ever so slightly wrong here.

LABOUR have NO SHAME.

Keep going Mr Goff. We love you!

Remember don&#039;t change a thing. Everything is fine and dandy. You are doing a sterling job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Field’s guilt and Labour’s shame”</p>
<p>The title is ever so slightly wrong here.</p>
<p>LABOUR have NO SHAME.</p>
<p>Keep going Mr Goff. We love you!</p>
<p>Remember don&#8217;t change a thing. Everything is fine and dandy. You are doing a sterling job.</p>
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		<title>By: Shunda barunda</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592792</link>
		<dc:creator>Shunda barunda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592792</guid>
		<description>&quot;The irony in all of this was that Field wanted to bring back Christian and family values back in the form of a race-based party.&quot;

Well if he gets a cell next to Graham Capill he may be able to start planning for the 2055 election! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The irony in all of this was that Field wanted to bring back Christian and family values back in the form of a race-based party.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well if he gets a cell next to Graham Capill he may be able to start planning for the 2055 election! <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ophiuchus</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592790</link>
		<dc:creator>ophiuchus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592790</guid>
		<description>The irony in all of this was that Field wanted to bring back Christian and family values back in the form of a race-based party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The irony in all of this was that Field wanted to bring back Christian and family values back in the form of a race-based party.</p>
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		<title>By: Straight Shooter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592786</link>
		<dc:creator>Straight Shooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592786</guid>
		<description>DPF, 
Your preparation of this post, taking into account your background and your connections, will raise some suspicions around the Press Gallery me thinks! I hope it doesn&#039;t backfire. ;)

[DPF: It will raise no suspicions. Most of the gallery know me well enough that if I say I compiled it 100% myself, they will believe me. And I did. All I did was the same think the media did in the Weatherston trial - prepare a piece in advance of the verdict. I started work on it on Monday afternoon]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPF,<br />
Your preparation of this post, taking into account your background and your connections, will raise some suspicions around the Press Gallery me thinks! I hope it doesn&#8217;t backfire. <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>[DPF: It will raise no suspicions. Most of the gallery know me well enough that if I say I compiled it 100% myself, they will believe me. And I did. All I did was the same think the media did in the Weatherston trial - prepare a piece in advance of the verdict. I started work on it on Monday afternoon]</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592783</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592783</guid>
		<description>toad

All good, Sorry I wasn&#039;t having a go at you personally about being quiet on this. Clearly your other posts in this thread illustrate that you and I agree on this issue. 

I wasn&#039;t trying to frame you personally in what I saw as a stunning silence from many [workers rights activists] seemingly because it was a Labour MP and the PM&#039;s inquiry eventually &#039;exonerated&#039; Field.  I mainly recall the McCarten situation because I had taken a bath on a blog a few weeks earlier because I had no defense to something along the lines of; &#039;It is only &#039;right wing numpties&#039;  speaking up about Field - It&#039;s a beat up and you have been sucked in...&#039;  

McCarten publishing what he did a few days/weeks after that was a refreshing read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>toad</p>
<p>All good, Sorry I wasn&#8217;t having a go at you personally about being quiet on this. Clearly your other posts in this thread illustrate that you and I agree on this issue. </p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t trying to frame you personally in what I saw as a stunning silence from many [workers rights activists] seemingly because it was a Labour MP and the PM&#8217;s inquiry eventually &#8216;exonerated&#8217; Field.  I mainly recall the McCarten situation because I had taken a bath on a blog a few weeks earlier because I had no defense to something along the lines of; &#8216;It is only &#8216;right wing numpties&#8217;  speaking up about Field &#8211; It&#8217;s a beat up and you have been sucked in&#8230;&#8217;  </p>
<p>McCarten publishing what he did a few days/weeks after that was a refreshing read.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marsden</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592782</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marsden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592782</guid>
		<description>Further to my question/scenerio above, of course I realise a conviction was only entered against the Member at a later date, but the crime had already been perpetrated. You could of course, go on infinitum. In fact, any number of subsequent offences may have been committed and any number of laws subsequently passed by a majority of one.  Seems to me there might  be something to look at here, in bringing these matters to trial as a matter of absolute urgency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further to my question/scenerio above, of course I realise a conviction was only entered against the Member at a later date, but the crime had already been perpetrated. You could of course, go on infinitum. In fact, any number of subsequent offences may have been committed and any number of laws subsequently passed by a majority of one.  Seems to me there might  be something to look at here, in bringing these matters to trial as a matter of absolute urgency.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Prick</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/fields_guilt_and_labours_shame.html#comment-592776</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Prick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=35302#comment-592776</guid>
		<description>&quot;He is just guilty of helping people&quot;.  Let those words resonate, shall we.  I&#039;m pleased we no longer have a Prime Minister with a moral compass pointing to political ends rather than what might be in the best interests of the country.  Thankfully those days are lifted from us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He is just guilty of helping people&#8221;.  Let those words resonate, shall we.  I&#8217;m pleased we no longer have a Prime Minister with a moral compass pointing to political ends rather than what might be in the best interests of the country.  Thankfully those days are lifted from us.</p>
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