You still haven’t explained why you chose to pay attention Lev 20:13 but not to other parts of Leviticus. I’m guessing its the same circularity as above.

I like my Bible’s version of Ezekiel 16:50 better:
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Now remember that verse I quoted earlier:
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Yeah, I thought you’d like that one!
Debate; not to be confused with ‘senseless’ debate, which is the Kris translation (by the Holy Spirit of course) of the actual meaning.

Otherwise I’d have a whole lot of hail Mary’s to repeat. Lucky I’m not Catholic too.

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Wuh-oh.

Ezekial 16:49-50:” ‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen”

There is more to the story than you quote. Here’s Josephus:

Now, about this time the Sodomites, overwhelmingly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, God accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward.

By the way, according to Leviticus, God also hates people with flat-noses!

The shaving on the side of the head was a specific instruction for the Jews. Hence the reason many Orthodox Jews practice this even today. Also, it is not restated in the NT for Christians. Similar to my animal sacrifice mentioned earlier.

Homosexulity is restated in the NT:
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Doesn’t that seem a little pick-and-mixey? Those instructions – your quote on homosexuality and mine on shaving the hair on the sides of your head – are in the very same book. How do you choose which count?

(Checking the other thread now, apologies for not seeing it.)

And your point is?
Remember, some instructions were specifically to the Jews, while others are in fact advice/commands for all men for all time. Many Old Testament ‘laws’ were restated in the New Testament; while some were not. For instance, I don’t have to sacrifice an animal for my sins today whereas the OT Jews did.

[PS I responded to your comment on 'Liquid on Planes' on our marathon debate effort of last week - if you haven't already seen it.]

Sounds good to me, no kid would want to be raised by poofs.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I think I’ll stick to what the Bible says.

Lev 19:19 “‘Keep my decrees.
” ‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
” ‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
” ‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.”
Lev 19:27 “Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.”
Lev 19:33-44 “When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.”

Bible study time:
Eunuchs:
Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: [ie they ain't got no nuts] and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: [ie some bloke chopped off their nuts] and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake [they chose not to marry and remained celebate]. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

The wickedness of the Sodomites of Sodom:
Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

To ‘know’ someone in the biblical sense is the same as lying with them. That is, carnal ‘knowledge’ or sex.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

These degenerate Sodomites of Sodom spurned Lots offer of his two virgin daughters in preference for the two ‘men’ (actually angels).

I think I’ll stick to what the Bible says.
But thanks for your ‘authoritative’ opinion.

Yes. Can you read? Lok up the passage and then note the capitalisation in my post. Jesus states that some people are made eunuchs and the goes on to state that some people are BORN eunuchs. He was not talking about congenital anorchidism. We know from other ancient sources – roman law and the talmud – that some people who were born-eunuchs were capable of procreating even if they had no desire to do so. Jesus is either talking about asexual or homosexuals.

kris k:Wrong. It was one of the reasons. Homosexuality in Sodom was one of the measures that indicated the degree of wickedness of the populace. Although God is against all sin, when He describes a particular sin as being an ‘abomination’ it is an indication of just how abhorrent that sin is. Homosexuality is described in such terms in the bible – an abomination; the most serious of sins.

Sodom & Gomorah were wealthy and refused to share their prosperity with strangers, who were sometimes raped – male and female alike. God destroyed S & G because of their unwelcoming attitude. Its not clear to me how you go from God punishing them for their willingness to rape male starngers rather than be hospitable to them, to somehow concluding that this is proof that God dislikes homosexuality.

I hold similar views. In a Biblical worldview sex is designed for a man and a woman, within the confines of marriage. Since I trust the Bible, that is the view I hold. I understand others might not hold that view. I do not believe homosexual acts should be outlawed. But I do believe they should not be actively promoted in our schools, universities, press etc as something “normal” and on par with “one-man-plus-one-woman-in-marriage”. No matter how hard they bleat, it never is and never will be.

RE: Phil. Why doesn’t someone just out him and get WINZ onto him? I know, not the most loving thing to do, but he’s such a drag on this blog, and he’s obviously got plenty of energy, so make the bugger work for his pay.

Rufus

How come so many leftwingers are gay cheerleaders…?

As-in, it’s an enervating lifestyle. Sure, accept it, by not making it a criminal offence, but why promote it? What’s the agenda, phil?

Eh?

1. I am not anti-gay. As a libertarian, I am 100% pro gay rights. Furthermore, as a mathematician, Turing is a hero of mine. Bear that in mind.

2. This story is clearly bollocks. I will give my reasons for saying this.

No court gives a “choice” between imprisonment and another punishment. Sorry, but alternative punishments are an extremely recent development. Back then it was prison or hanging, and that was it. No court would ever order treatment of homosexuality with chemicals. The punishment was imprisonment. If you have access to LexusNexus or Brookers or whatever you use, you can look up tons of KB cases where offenders were convicted for offences relating to homosexuality. Prison, or in extreme cases hanging. No. Other. Punishment. Sorry, but it is just totally an utterly impossible that he would have been ordered to undergo such therapy.

phil(whoar.co.nz)

Some people are made eunuchs and some people are BORN eunuchs. read it again.

Do you understand biology Chiz?
When you take your pet cat to the vet to be neutered he (male) becomes a ‘eunuch’ (not a homosexual).
This was the same reason that in ancient cultures those that looked after the king’s harem were (or were made) eunuchs (and therefore had no sexual desire).

Btw the destruction of S & G had nothing to do with homosexuality but was to do with thei attitude to strangers.

Wrong. It was one of the reasons.
Homosexuality in Sodom was one of the measures that indicated the degree of wickedness of the populace.
Although God is against all sin, when He describes a particular sin as being an ‘abomination’ it is an indication of just how abhorrent that sin is. Homosexuality is described in such terms in the bible – an abomination; the most serious of sins.

Some people are made eunuchs and some people are BORN eunuchs. read it again.

Btw the destruction of S & G had nothing to do with homosexuality but was to do with thei attitude to strangers.

I’m curious to know why you selectively quote from the OT. It also bans or forbids many other things which modern christians have no problem with.

And here you are denying the man some dignity in death by moaning that he was gay.

Look at the moat in your own eye.