Then again, I wonder if DPF could be the Antichrist?
After all, the Bible says that “his look is more stout than his fellows”.

I have given religion serious consideration. And I don’t feel damaged by my conclusions. I don’t think I will change my conclusions unless I see evidence to the contrary, and considering no one has ever seen any verifiable evidence I don’t expect that I will.

The key thing we have to be able to do is to respect the right for other people to arrive at their conclusions, whatever their beliefs or religion may be, as long as those beliefs aren’t used to the detriment of others. I’ll question people who make claims I disagree with, especially when they involve supposed superiority of their position – the “if you don’t believe what I believe then you’re crap” thing. We all eat and drink, and we all crap.

Beliefs in NZ have fragmented and moderated, especially compared to many other countries. We need to find a way to move forward together promoting reasonable morals without needing to belong to a particular club.

Humour aside, it’s a serious subject and those that don’t treat it with serious consideration damage themselves.

That doesn’t mean you don’t have a sense of humour.

Nearly there, one more push might do it.

Do you think I’ve nearly converted Kris to reality?

Air NZ would be VERY happy indeed and you do recall of course that JK is the Minster of Tourism.

How diabolical.

“This is also why non Christians are described as ’spiritually dead’, and Christians as ’spiritually alive’.”

Don’t you mean “this is why Christians describe non-Christians as spiritually dead”? It really just means that they have different beliefs. Offering a carrot to try to attract some followers.

No, it’s rather what God’s word says versus any individual’s personal opinion.
Having said that, the opportunity to have eternal life is a pretty good ‘carrot’.

It doesn’t really make sense to me. You say “yip I’m Christian” and voila, along comes a spirit for you. What if you then decide it’s bollocks, does your spirit float off to someone else? Or hang around waiting to go to hell?

I believe that genuine salvation, once received, cannot be ‘lost’. The Bible says as much.
Not to say that disobedient Christians won’t be punished, or lose heavenly rewards previously earned for faithful service, etc.

Kris K
You’re doing a sterling job.
You are part of my Judgment as much as I am part of yours.
The way I read it everyone goes to heaven, some just don’t stay there.

Pete
Nearly there, one more push might do it.
Where’s Andre and Ian when you want them ehh.

I’m interested in the glorified body bit. What would one of these bodies be like? I’m guessing you’d need no reproductive organs, since there would be no reproduction in heaven. Which seems a bit of a downer. But then again, maybe I’m just thinking with my current body, which places value on these things. Perhaps being in the glory of god would make reproducing (or practicing for reproducing) pale in comparison?

Still, seems to me a design fault in these new bodies.

Which reminds me of a bad joke about three engineers:
A mechanical engineer …

As a mechanical engineer I always enjoy a good engineering joke.

You’re correct regarding the glorified body being non reproductive sexually – apparently it is likened to angelic bodies which do not marry (reproduce) in heaven. They also do not require physical sustenance – so perhaps no internal organs whatsoever. Although we can choose to eat for enjoyment, so maybe there is. Christ ate after His resurrection afterall. My guess is in some ways it will resemble our earthly body, but in others it will be vastly different. It will not age or decay. It is interdimensional. It is not restricted by time, space or matter. We’re talking about a serious upgrade here – both hardware and software.

Personally, I can’t wait for the upgrade. This really is ‘blow your mind’ territory!
Who would not choose it? And of course, who would not want the privilege of dwelling in the presence of the Creator God for all eternity.

This is also why non Christians are described as ’spiritually dead’, and Christians as ’spiritually alive’.

Don’t you mean “this is why Christians describe non-Christians as spiritually dead”? It really just means that they have different beliefs. Offering a carrot to try to attract some followers.

It doesn’t really make sense to me. You say “yip I’m Christian” and voila, along comes a spirit for you. What if you then decide it’s bollocks, does your spirit float off to someone else? Or hang around waiting to go to hell?

Kris K – your definition of being in heaven seems to be vary depending on which contradictory verse you’re trying to defend. Elijah clearly counts as being “in heaven” according to the bible “…And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven….” 2 Kings 2:1, 11-12, and you say he is there in “spirit and soul” only. Then you say Christian saints are in heaven, but that *doesn’t* count as being completely in heaven because they’re in “spirit and soul” form only…
Doesn’t it concern you that you can only make these arguments by constantly changing the definition of the words ?

Elijah (and Enoch of course) are perhaps the two special cases.
I dont have all the answers, but I think it has something to do with the fact that neither Elijah nor Enoch have died physically. So while they are perhaps in heaven now, there is no indication that they have received glorified bodies – which is required to dwell in Gods presence. So when the Bible refers to “no man is … in heaven” this could be an allusion to ‘no glorified man in heaven’ – because, as I just said, this is required to dwell in God’s presence. Now you really are going to accuse me of ’splitting hairs’. I really don’t know in these two exceptional cases – I will have to ask God when I see Him.

Still, seems to me a design fault in these new bodies.

Which reminds me of a bad joke about three engineers:
A mechanical engineer, an electrical engineer, and a civil engineer are sitting around talking about God. The mechanical engineer says, “God must have been a mechanical engineer, look at the way our muscles and bones move.” The electrical engineer disagrees, saying, “God must have been an electrical engineer, look at the electrical wiring in our brains.” After a moment the civil engineer says, “Well, he certainly wasn’t a civil engineer. What kind of idiot puts the playground right next to waste disposal?”

Body – that’s the bag of bones bit.
Soul – the developed mind, thinking, feeling, loving, imagining.

Spirit – that which remains after death. Some think it is some sort of invisible floaty thing.
I think it is what you leave behind in memories and influences, especially in your children but also others you have touched.

I agree with your first two definitions, Pete.

Human spirit:
From a Biblical perspective the human spirit is where the Holy Spirit resides after someone receives Christ.
Prior to this it is described as ‘dead’, or perhaps empty. Without God’s Spirit it is empty/dead.
This is also why non Christians are described as ’spiritually dead’, and Christians as ’spiritually alive’. Similarly, when someone becomes a Christian, as a result of becoming spiritually alive they also receive ‘eternal life’. It is, therefore, through Christ alone we can have eternal life.

Soul – the developed mind, thinking, feeling, loving, imagining

Spirit – that which remains after death. Some think it is some sort of invisible floaty thing.
I think it is what you leave behind in memories and influences, especially in your children but also others you have touched