Aisling Symes found in drain
Very sad news that the missing two year old, Aisling Symes, has apparently been found in a drain. Unknown if she just drowned or if foul play was involved. Thoughts go out to her family.
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Tags: Aisling Symes, RIP
October 12th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
David,
The media is reporting that “a child’s body” has been found. Whilst it probably is Aisling, we won’t know for sure until she has been identified.
Please don’t rush in saying that it’s certainly her.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Slight correction DPF, police say ‘the body of a child’. Almost certain it is Aisling, however police have not confirmed such as yet.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Very very sad news. Why are the media saying that the mother has maintained that Aisling disappeared while her back was turned? Does this mean what I think it does, or are the media just speculating?
October 12th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Why are the media saying that the mother has maintained that Aisling disappeared while her back was turned?
I wondered the same myself, typical media trying to create a new spin on it, wish they’d just leave the family alone at this awful time.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
My heart goes out to the parents. To have the trauma of loss and uncertainty added to by this shock must be almost too hard to bear.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
I see that earlier in the day it was reported that Lord Ashcroft (the same who offered a reward for the return of the stolen war medals) put up a reward of $50,000 for information leading to the safe return of Aisling. I thought it a bit strange that return of the war medals was $200,000, yet a little girl is worth only $50,000?
October 12th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
…not that his gesture is not appreciated…
October 12th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
and during that appearance by that psychic on breakfast television..
she said she just saw the image of aisling on television..
”
and said she thought..’a dead child’..
in hindsight..it would appear she was correct..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 12th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
If this is Aisling then the pysic prediction was right on the button – much to my disgust!
October 12th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Gut wretching. RIP little girl.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
ps, the Policeman in the interview mentioned the word ‘crime’.
It looks like it might be treated as murder?
October 12th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
If this is Aisling then the pysic prediction was right on the button – much to my disgust!
She summed up the odds, that’s all.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
We can not ever imagine how the Parents must be feeling. Our condolences to Aislings loved ones!!! Our thanks to the Police and the community for their committment to finiding Aisling.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
October 12th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
TCrwdb (122) Vote: 0 0 Says:
October 12th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
If this is Aisling then the pysic prediction was right on the button – much to my disgust!
She summed up the odds, that’s all.
She went further than that . Stated that she had a vision of her (the little girl), in a hole in the ground somewhere by water (or words very similar to that)
October 12th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Before I had children of my own I might have heard these stories and, while agreeing with you that it was a tragedy not really felt hugely affected by it.
But now, with two children of my own, these stories feel gut-wrenching and you can’t help but feel for the parents and their loss.
Nothing changes you quite as much as becoming a parent.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Paul,
You’re right, the clairvoyant knew quite a bit about where the body was to be located.
Perhaps clairvoyants indeed have a role to play in police investigations: as suspects.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
TCrwdb (122) Vote: 0 0 Says:
October 12th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
If this is Aisling then the pysic prediction was right on the button – much to my disgust!
She summed up the odds, that’s all.
She went further than that . Stated that she had a vision of her (the little girl), in a hole in the ground somewhere by water (or words very similar to that)
I’ll say it again, she summed up the odds.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:08 am
As one poster at nzgames commented Man, being a psychic would be so easy in New Zealand. “The body is near trees and water.”
Can someone explain to me why Bob Harvey took it upon himself to make the “body found” announcement before the police?
October 13th, 2009 at 12:25 am
“Stated that she had a vision of her (the little girl), in a hole in the ground somewhere by water (or words very similar to that)”
Buried in a hole by a river or sea perhaps. A very common place to hide a body.
However, it all looks like a terrible tragedy. It will be hard for these parents and some psychological support should be offered to get them through it.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:26 am
This story has gone world wide really quickly.It’s just terrible news.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:55 am
Perhaps the clairvoyant did it? she seems to know alot
October 13th, 2009 at 6:59 am
In my opinion. sorry, but the Mum looked suspect to me.
Watch this space.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:03 am
My thoughts go out to the family on such a very sad day. Having a child the same age as Aisling has been very difficult and my wife was in tears when we heard the news last night. We hoped for a miracle and now we will grieve for the family.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:07 am
I predicted the same thing on this blog. Hardly psychic. A hole in the ground? Come on. A drain is not a hole, and murdered people are usually buried. If that psychic touts this as a hit I would like to hit her.
Given the proximaty to the house that the littel girl disappeared from I imagine this is a case of accidental death. I really hope it is, for the parent’s sake.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Robert Black. I too was bothered by her demeanor. More to the point that the kid didn’t disappear in a moment but was missing for sometime. We will see.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:35 am
Seems to me that the police made up their mind very early that there had been a snatching.
In the light of the fact that the body was only metres from where the parents were and that the place had been searched twice, then one has to conlcude that either the searchers were from the blind institue or that they were just going thru the motions.
However the matter that still is to be made clear was how they suddenly found her yesterday and why they needed things like concrete cutters (unless to get better access).
As for the clairvoyant – toddlers that go near water unprotected usually drown – all she did was go for the obvious.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Viking2 – I do think that in these cases where a parent goes on TV they are damned if they do or don’t. Too much emotion and people suspect they are over-acting. Too little and they are cold.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:42 am
I have a lot of respect for the Police but this is the second time the Auckland Police have failed to find a body that was right inside the search area (the other was An An Liu, whose body was in the boot of her killer husband’s car, parked outside their home, unsearched for several days).
Serious questions have to be asked about the performance of the so-called “specialist Police search team” that is often brought in when a missing person is reported.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:47 am
I’m not sure which sickens me more – the use of a psychic by TVNZ for commercial gain, or the Kiwiblog posters who are already labelling a grieving mother as a murderer. Have some consideration for the family folks – their world has been turned upside down, while you get your jollies indulging in rumour and innuendo.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:05 am
“Near water and trees” is a pretty standard line for “psychics” in New Zealand, in Chad they claim the body’s in a sand dune in the desert.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:11 am
Just heartbreaking. My wife and I often discussed this as we couldnt understand why the police were so confident they would have found her body through their search. Whatever the facts turn out to be this little girl deserved a better shot at life.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Police had searched this drain several times and found nothing. This is deeply disturbing as it could suggest she is the victim of foul play and dumped there AFTER the police searches.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:51 am
A month before this, my 5yo son slipped down a cliff out of sight, it eventually took 2 1/2 hours to abseil him out, to find that he was pretty much okay. When the Symes appeared on tv – they looked exactly how I felt in the 5-10 minutes before my I knew my son was alive, conscious and moving. Children can disappear that quickly, and there can be awful outcomes. Those 5 minutes were easily the worst of my life, and I have no wish to ever repeat them. To have to face not knowing for 7 days doesn’t even bear imagining. It could’ve so easily happened to us, and my thoughts and best wishes are definitely with the Symes at this time.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:56 am
The body was found 36 metres from the manhole, when the search started a cop looked down the drain and called her, later a camera was pushed 9 metres down the pipe. The body was only found when the pipe was dug up. Police are uncertain if Aisling crawled that far into the pipe or if water from the rains carried her down.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:57 am
What Inv said.
Also, the Asian community deserves an apology of this.
Lots of people, very quickly, latched on to the alleged sighting of the girl with the Asian woman.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Presumably it wouldn’t take much to tip someone over the edge to dobbing in someone they know whom they suspected of involvement with the disappearance of a small girl, while the theft of something very valuable on a black market of collectors might require more incentive.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:03 am
All that so-called psychic did was play the odds. You’ll no doubt remember there was heavy rain in Auckland last week so a stormwater scenario was a safe bet. Had the so-called psychic been able to state which hole in the ground and/or what stream of water, or perhaps specified an exact location, she might have been useful.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:19 am
why..when there had been heavy rain..
did the police only look 9 metres down a drain…
that could (and did) contain the child..?
(and was only metres from the house..)
why did it take all this time..
to further investigate what surely anyone with half a brain would have done..?
especially when the first cop on the scene found the manhole cover..open..
i mean..f.f.s..!
on just this fact…this is a major fuck-up by police..
and just echoes the body in the boot case..
i mean..the fucken manhole cover was open..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Phil, the parents and family went down that drain too and never saw her. Do we cast aspersions on them too?
Leave this alone. Today is not the day to be probing these issues.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Yep, it is just tragic, best left at that.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:34 am
gooner..there is a drain…just metres from the house…with an open manhole-cover…
there has been heavy rain..
gee..!
how many more fucken arrows do you need..?
a neon sign..?
and no gooner..
we don’t ‘cast aspersions’ on the parents..
they are not the specialist police-team..
(and that was a kinda ‘tacky’ comeback from you..?
wasn’t it..?
this is eye-watering incompetence..
and a week later someone with a brain turned up and said..
‘we have checked down that drain ..haven’t we..?
y’know..the blocked one..?’
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I feel so bad for the family. I lost my 2yo and 3.5yo at the same time, they were found and returned safely within 30min by the police. The worst 30min of my life.
The manhole cover was open ~10cm. This is not enough for a child to get in, but if she stood on the cover near the open edge, the cover would pivot and drop her down the 2M hole.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Kiwiblog has some complete dicks.
Robert Black, perhaps you could write a short manual for people in these circumstances. Call it “How to do a TV Interview for the First Time in your Life, about your Missing Toddler, while your Guts are being Ripped out with Worry, but yet Strike the Right Balance to Impress the Audience. Tips and Tricks to Look Just Right.”
October 13th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Phil, the cops are always an easy target. It’s very easy for the likes of you to sit at home on a benefit and criticise.
As I said, today is not the day Phil. Show some tact.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:28 am
@ Gooner – Phillip Ure/Tact – I think you’re expecting too much Gooner. Phil wouldn’t know tact if tact popped up to light his joint for him
@ malcolm – agree wholeheartedly, as per my 7.47am post
October 13th, 2009 at 11:30 am
I thought the police spokesperson dealt with the press conference very well this morning. Some of the media were clearly probing for more drama, more headlines – and he laid everything out in what seemed to me a very open, honest way. You could tell he was hurting as well, but he still spent more than 20 minutes outlining much of what had gone on.
I don’t think you can fault the police on this – the first officer searched the drain (which was open 8-12cm) to quite a deep level, as did relatives. It was one of many, many places Aisling could have been – and they later had to search a big area when there were also thoughts she could have been adbucted, and there were several other areas of enquiry (e.g. the Asian woman). As various leads/options didn’t pan out, the police kept reviewing things, and went back to the drain with more equipment and technology, searching to 9m either way, and still finding nothing.
It is unfortunate she was found somewhere connected to an area already searched, but I don’t think you can fault the police search, or imply they didn’t do enough. The eventual discovery only happened because of the determination of those involved, and their willingness to continually review all aspects of the search – going back another time to the drain, and going to large time/cost expense digging the whole thing up (even with machinery this took several hours).
Are some on this forum suggesting that they should have immediately dug up the entire drain, to a point a great distance from the partially open man-hole, right from the start? At a time when the hope was Aisling was still alive, and so they were searching a wide area throughout the neighbourhood etc?
The police in NZ do make errors and mistakes, and there have been police actions that are rightly questioned or faulted. I honestly don’t think this is one of them. Let’s not act like some in the media and try and create a controversy just for drama and a story.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:32 am
that’s right gooner..avoid the question altogether..again..
and play the ‘poor cops’ card..
you should have played the ‘fool’ card..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am
“..It is unfortunate she was found somewhere connected to an area already searched, but I don’t think you can fault the police search, or imply they didn’t do enough..”
so..who do you fucken ‘fault’..?
the tooth-fairy..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Deb Webber the psychic scammer just played the odds. The house being surrounded by water and trees. But a ditch is not a drain. And if she saw or visioned it.. why couldn’t she say where.. because it was a generalised guess based on best odds. Which is why the police and family searched the man hole and drain more than once.
It looks as if perhaps the blockage happened after she fell in. It’s just fucking sad. No one is to blame. Tragic accidents are just that
October 13th, 2009 at 11:37 am
“..Are some on this forum suggesting that they should have immediately dug up the entire drain, to a point a great distance from the partially open man-hole, right from the start?.”
no..
the drain was blocked..
a probe/tube is sent up to identify where the blockage is..
then you dig there..
i think they do this all the time..
those drain-people..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
The reports earlier this morning said that the manhole cover had been in place, now we’re told it was known to have been well out of position when Aisling went missing, and that this was a common occurrence.
Tactful or not, Phil has a point.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:46 am
“..The manhole cover was open ~10cm. This is not enough for a child to get in, but if she stood on the cover near the open edge, the cover would pivot and drop her down the 2M hole..”
the cop said it was open 20 centimetres..(which is enough..)
and..the cover is too heavy to swivel..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
well wotifs are a big problem to everyone. At least the wee girl is found. Imagine if she hadnt been found, was in the drain as her final resting place and no one knew. – there would be no closure for the parents. I lost a child years ago through different but difficult circumstances and I look for that lost child every day but I am lucky I know the child is essentially in safe keeping. I cant imagine what it would be like not having the peace of ‘ knowing’ if the child was dead or alive.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
and..the cover is too heavy to swivel..
Flunked physics I take it? Heres a question for you: What happens when you put a 15kg weight on one end of a see-saw?
October 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
sorry to hear about your loss..happy jacko..
i had a ten year old daughter snatched awaty to another country..
and didn’t gat to see her for 4 years..
that pain don’t stop..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Re: The manhole cover : A complaint about the manhole was received 24 days before Aisling went missing, Waitakere City Council spokesman Wally Thomas told Stuff.co.nz.
The manhole would lift off and water would come pouring out in heavy rain, Ms Carrington said…..
I blame Deb webber.. she should have located her
October 13th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Robert Black and Viking 2 – not Australians are you?
October 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Unless a ‘psychic’ can get off their arse and go and point to where someone is within 1 metre then they are full of shit.
The prophets in the bible were that good, false profits were executed.
Not bad quality control and consumer guarantee.
October 13th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Thanks Phil – life is a test to us all. BUT when we care for the lives of others we give releif to oursleves. As a result of a tax payer funded informercial for Deb W’s physic show, I asked her to donate the takings and to volunteer out in the field, in her gumboots, like the rest of those who were helping. Does anyone know if she took my 2 challenges????
October 13th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Hi guys, I’m looking for funding for my new reality show called “Sensing Bollocks” The basic premise is it involves NZ’s Top 10 Psychics. In week one, a psychic is murdered, and thus begins a race against time for the remaining psychics to converse with the dead and find the killer before he kills another psychic.
Any takers ?
October 13th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
The police and emergency services are far too slow in responding. By the time a call goes out it can be too late because of their tedious emergency procedures.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Gulag… The Police got there within 5 minutes of the call. Despite what ACC say…accidents cant be prevented, because they can’t be predicted
October 13th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Gulag, I understand your comment however in this case (according to the time line given by the Police this morning) the first car was onsite 5 minutes after they had recieved the call.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
The asian community to do not deserve an apololy, If any good come out of this it will be that they can not be trusted. Asians bring Asian crime and methods.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Yeah, and those eyes – you can’t tell what they’re thinking. You know they eat dogs? Dogs! They’d eat Lassie, while praying to their heathen gods.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Yes, all asians are exactly the same. If one asian was seen near the scene of the disappearance, then obviously all asians are criminal child-murdering low life. It stands to reason.
[EDIT: Welcome to Kiwiblog.]
October 13th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Biomag83 – don’t really follow your thinking, but if any apologies are owed, they are probably owed to all the local-resident convicted pedophiles and sex offenders in the area who would have been seriously interrogated by the Police during the last week.
We are all disgusted by these people and their past behaviour, but on this occasion they were getting on with life and not offending (which is what we want), and then their lives get turned upside down.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Phil and Chris2 and others do have a point. No one is suggesting that police shouldn’t have followed up all possible lines of inquiry but in this instance they seem to have dismissed the accident scenario very quickly and moved straight to “foul play”. Thus the search centred round an abducted child and not a missing one – much more dramatic and media-friendly for police, but the less likely scenario in the basis of probability.
As Phil points out, drainage companies nowadays have amazing technology… I happen to know because I’ve just this week finished a marketing project for one of them. I went in imagining ditch diggers and shovels, mud and filth. Instead I ended up talking about cameras that can snake along incredible distances while the operator sits in the warm and dry, guiding the whole apparatus with laser beams.
Those who think the police response was exemplary need ask themselves this: of all the child deaths in NZ every year, how many are the result of a terrible accident (often connected with water) and how many the result of abduction by an evil pedophile or suspicious Asian woman? By all means canvas all the options, but when a child’s life is at stake and your resources limited, forget what you’ve seen on the overseas TV cop shows and play the odds accordingly.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Did it? Is it police or media attention you are referring to?
What proportion of police time and resources went to the search, and what went to the abduction inquiries, day by day and over the course of the week? Obviously they were still searching for a lost child yesterday.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
“The asian community to do not deserve an apololy, If any good come out of this it will be that they can not be trusted. Asians bring Asian crime and methods.”
Of course the other thing the police should have realized is that Asians generally only involve themselves in abduction for ransom. It was obvious this was not the case here, so based on statistics along, the Asian woman should have been ruled out from early on.
Paedophilia is basically a crime basically unique to white men – and in fact I would bet my life that the list of paedophiles the police would have gone through was 99% white. The Asian component I suspect would have been zero.
In fact out of 1509 people on the sex offenders list, http://www.safenz.org.nz/sxdb/sxdb.htm, just two are Chinese, ie 0.13% of sex offenders are Chinese, yet Chinese are 3.6% of the population. thus Chinese are underrepresented in sex crimes ,relative to general population, by about 27 times.
Also in Australia, based on jailing rates in 2008, there were precisely zero sex crimes for people orginating in China – zero out of approximately 300,000 people. http://tinyurl.com/msfsj3
Of course this type of analysis would have been beyond the ken of our ‘police’ force, who, based on dubious evidence, still love to stir the public up against non-whites, Asians in particular.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Biomag
The most unfortunate thing about your stupid comment is another fuckwit actually agreed with you. Do you know where the “Asian woman with a dog” comment actually came from? – thought not.
Its sounds like another Mathieu Bastareaud allegation
BTW interesting name, everyone knows they’re a bit like phool – they don’t work
October 13th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
While you all sit there and ponder what went wrong and who to blame, lets face facts, through some unfortunate accident she fell into the drain during a time when heavy rain had been in the area. Its very likely that by the time the first police car arrived she was already drowned.
In searches for missing children such as this you initially believe they will have just wandered off somewhere and you find them in the next few minutes, which starts to stretch out as you spend more time looking unsuccessfully to the point where all searchers didn’t locate anything in a couple of days of some intense searching. So the next logical step if there is no evidence around would be to suspect abduction and start to look at those leads.
The police did nothing wrong here, maybe they could have found her body sooner but the outcome would still be the same whether you like it or not.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
The loss of this girl is a terrible tragedy. And New Zealanders are united in their grief. Little Aisling’s face on the news has rattled us and reminded us that our precious children can leave us in a heartbeat. That’s a frightening thing for anybody, but especially for parents with young children.Anyone who has had a toddler knows how quickly they can zoom off, and how delighted they are to explore their independence. This could happen to any family, anywhere. I hope the little girl is resting peacefully and that her parents take some comfort from the genuine outpouring of love and support that the country is offering them.
October 14th, 2009 at 6:34 am
NZers can be so council/county/state dependent that any initiative like making secure the drain and eliminating and minimising any other potential hazard is lacking. Any problems like drains etc people should take care of it themselves if councils/counties/state agencies fail to act within a reasonable time.