This entry was posted
on Thursday, October 1st, 2009 at 8:00 am and is filed under Uncategorized.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
Read ‘Letters to the Editor’ in today’s Southland Times to get a feel for how Bill English’s ‘southern people’ feel about his rorting.
The worms! They’re a’turnin’!
Tax System explained in Beer
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do..
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.” Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.
So the first four men were unaffected.
They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?’
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a Dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, this is how our tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.
Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.
In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
This is a bit scary – The FDIC (Financial Deposit Insurance Corporation) which is America’s bank deposit guarantee scheme is broke. According to Time magazine banks, will have to pay the next three years insurance levies in advance but will use some amazing accounting trick so they don’t actually have to part with the money just yet!
Full article here:
@ kaya FDIC cant really go broke. They have a $500 BILLION loan facility with the Treasury which they can draw on (and which is curently undrawn) and they can (and will) levy the banks for whatever they need. They will have to levy the banks higher insurance premia to cover the losses and there will be further losses (bank failures) but the likelihood is the FDIC’s share of the losses will decrease (as banks and PEs compete more to acquire the failed banks).
FDIC in my view should be eliminated and US depositers forced to make rational choices about their investments rather than just stick up to the FDIC limit in the corner “Ma & Pa” bank
KiwiGreg – I suppose “broke” is the wrong description but:
“FDIC is worried that if the agency, which has always been privately funded through bank assessments, borrowed money from the Treasury, it would look like a new bank bailout, eroding the sliver of confidence the public has regained in our nation’s banking system in the past few months.”
As the whole US financial system is an illusion that is only being held together by faith, this latest development has the potential to shake that faith and cause more problems for that system. Another big shock coming in the markets maybe?
Stan Semenoff
Mayor
Whangarei District Council
Private Bag 9011
Whangarei
Cc:
Mark Simpson
Chief Executive Officer
Whangarei District Council
Private Bag 9011
Whangarei
1 October 2009
Dear Stan,
The Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 (LAMIA) controls the making of contracts worth more than $25,000 in a financial year between the Whangarei District Council and yourself.
The role of the Office of the Auditor-General in administering the LAMIA includes deciding applications for approval of contracts worth more than $25,000 in a financial year.
The disqualification rule also applies if you are concerned or interested in a contract with the Whangarei District Council as a subcontractor, as if it were a contract directly with the Whangarei District Council. The limit of $25,000 applies to the value of the subcontract, not the head contract.
The term “subcontract” is defined in section 2(1) of the Act. The definition is wider than the generally understood meaning, because it extends to subsidiary transactions. For example, if you are involved in a contract with an authority as an agent for the other contracting party (such as a real estate agent acting in respect of a property transaction), the arrangement for your remuneration as agent falls within the definition of a subcontract.
The Office of the Auditor-General can grant prior approval for contracts and limited powers to grant retrospective approval for contracts that have already been entered into that would otherwise take yourself above the $25,000 limit in any financial year.
The Office of the Auditor-General prefers to specify a precise monetary amount or upper limit, but if the exact amount is not yet known, a reasonable estimate of a suitable upper limit is sufficient. Where the approval relates to an ongoing arrangement, the Office of the Auditor-General usual practice is to grant approval for only one financial year at a time.
When the Whangarei District Council makes purchases from businesses in which you have an interest, it should establish some form of monitoring system to provide regular checks of the accumulating value of contracts.
Contracts that have obtained the approval of the Office of the Auditor-General should be monitored, to ensure that payments do not exceed the amount approved. This can easily happen if contracts are varied or extended.
However the details of the approvals that the Office of the Auditor-General have granted to the Whangarei District Council for yourself, shall not be released by the Office of the Auditor-General, but these details should be requested from the Whangarei District Council or yourself.
I hereby request that you release the following information,
i) All details of the application by the WDC under s 3(3) (a) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act for yourself, and responses from the Office of the Auditor-General; and
ii) All details of the application by the WDC under s 3(3)(aa) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act for yourself, and responses from the Office of the Auditor-General.
.. and profoundly re-shape our lives, culture, society .. and the world.
Over the last year, the world has received a crash course in real-world capitalism as the follies of Wall Street nearly torpedoed the global economy..
.. which had to be rescued by a trillion-dollar government handout.
Economics, the study of systems of production, distribution and consumption of goods and services, touches virtually facet of our lives from work, recreation and home life to entertainment, culture and social relations.
While there is a wealth of information and some excellent reporters in the business press..
.. the mainstream media has botched virtually every major economic story over the last decade.
It helped inflate the Internet bubble.
It worshiped at the shrine of the free market and Alan Greenspan.
It ignored the evidence of the housing bubble.
It was missing in action on the commodities bubble.
It celebrated billionaires and speculators .. even as they manufactured financial weapons of mass destruction.
It only sporadically reports on the myriad ways Wall Street games the financial system.
Even now, the corporate media downplay the scope of the disastrous U.S. economy.
The current economic downturn, the longest since the Great Depression more than 70 years ago..
.. has been dubbed by many the “Great Recession.”
It’s a useful way for journalists to acknowledge the pain of tens of millions of Americans who have lost homes, livelihoods, health care and more…
.. while distinguishing the current misfortune from the Great Depression.
But the term also makes the situation seem rosier than it is.
Despite the financial industry’s self-induced catastrophe in 2008..
.. most corporate media reporting still assumes “What’s good for Wall Street is good for America.”
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has already said this recession is “very likely over.”
The S&P 500 index, from its low point in March 2009, has rocketed upward by nearly 60 percent in barely six months.
And Wall Street banks are reporting record profits ..
.. less than a year after taxpayers threw them a trillion-dollar lifeline.
But for the average household, the reality is grim.
The number of unemployed and underemployed is nearly 17 percent of the U.S. workforce .. or around 25 million people.
Residential mortgage foreclosure filings have exceeded 300,000 a month for six months in a row, starting in March 2009.
Tent cities are sprouting across the country.
Personal incomes continues to shrink, and it’s projected that medical bankruptcies, people who file for personal bankruptcy because of medical bills..
I note that one or two commentators are calling for the NZ tax payer to pay for the reconstruction of Samoa, while I have the deepest sympathy for those who lost loved ones yesterday I cannot see how it is our responsibility to pay for the reconstruction.
Indeed Big Bruv. We need all the money the country can muster to ensure that folks like phil u are able to keep their bongs and crackpipes filled every week !
Would Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, and the rest of the pacific island countries help us if we had a major disaster?
Of course not, we already send money to the islands, most of this money does not have to be accounted for, we have enough issues here in New Zealand to worry about without endlessly handing over money to pacific island nations.
It doesn’t mention that the richest man relies on the others to be able to become rich in the first place.
It doesn’t mention what happens when most of the high earners earn far more than average earners doing non-productive types of work. With gambling for every winner there are usually many losers.
BB – you’re a cold individual. Do you ever consider how you would want to be treated if such an even happened to your family? I feel sorry for you if your view of the world means you would only ever do something for someone else if you thought you were going to get a financial gain in return…
“Would Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, and the rest of the pacific island countries help us if we had a major disaster?”
I’m sure they would do what they could do to help. May not be much but they would do what they could. I don’t think the world has become totally selfish and money obsessed yet, although some individuals may have.
It’s not “splashing cash” FFS, it’s doing what we can to help whole families and whole communities who have been devastated. My family can get by with a bit less. People in Samoa have got nothing.
Maybe BB is sick of it only being Western nations that seem to offer any meaningful help anywhere in the world when there is a disaster. I was in the States a few weeks after the Boxing Day Tsunami and the US was being criticised for it’s lack of goivernment aid. Never mind that they had parked a nuclear carrier up within days and were supplying power to the Indonesian grid, were using their aircraft and ships to ferry aid and supplies in, and that private US charities give away billions a year in overseas aid.
At the same time, Saudi Arabia belatedly held a telethon and raised a respectable $US70m, abotu half of which was donated by members of the Saudi royal family. a year or so before, a telethon in Saudi raised $US170m for familes of suicide bomber martyrs (again a large chunk being donated by the royal family).
I believe we should help Samoa, but no cash should be just handed over to them. Any aid should be managed by the NZ government to minimise corruption.
I agree we should ensure our aid money is reprioritised in light of the Tsunami but would also like to see a fair bit of cash currently tithed to support a bunch of luxury churches staffed by ministers living in (considerably) above average accommodation, also redirected to the rebuilding efforts.
“..We need all the money the country can muster to ensure that folks like”..bill..(double-dip-dipton) english..and roger (‘it’s my holiday..and you’ll pay for it!’) douglas..
..can keep troughing..
and as a b.t.w..
i haven’t smoked crack for twenty years..(and yes..it was ‘real’ crack..not yr bathtub speed crap ‘ice’..
David, Samoan churches stand out as huge monuments to warped priorities, but ironically in many villages at the moment they may be the best and possibly only shelter still available.
phlu, do you think the US bail-out package of over $US 1.5 Trillion (and counting) was the right response from Obama?
The thing about the ‘market’ is that if you leave it to itself it will self-correct. Many businesses and institutions would go under, people would lose their life savings, and other bad stuff. But afterwards you are left with the ‘fit’ banks and businesses.
Instead the US is saddled with extra debt, and the only lesson learnt by corporate America is that greed is even better because even if you fuck up the world economy the taxpayer will bail you out so you can try again.
Instead of the massive bailout packages to corporate, rescue packages for individuals would have made more sense. The chance of bailout money filtering from the big banks etc down to the average joe are pretty slim. But give it to the average joe and he is going to pump it straight into the economy to buy what he needs to survive.
Obama really robbed the poor (and their children, and grandchildren etc) to give to the rich, and it hasn’t fixed anything. What we’re experiencing now (now that ‘the recession is over’) is simply a dead cat bounce.
Community is all about give and take, as far as the bottomless pit that is pacific island aide there is plenty of give from New Zealand and plenty of take from the PI’s but nothing coming back the other way.
Not1, Greenfly, and all the rest who think it is our responsibility to pay for the reconstruction, can I ask you this question (and I would hope that I get an honest reply)
Have YOU donated any of your own money to the appeal fund?
If so, good for you, that is your choice and I respect you for it, however, you have no right to spend MY money without my consent.
Village Idiot’s inane comments about a letter to the editor in the Southland Times about Bill English just shows how naive and ignorant he is.
I would say that the writer, a MrE.J.Flynn, is a good Labour supporter and is certainly not a constituent of Mr English.
Perhaps Village Idiot might like to find out about Phil Goff’s home “rorts” during the time he was a minister in the Clarke government.Yesterdays interview with Goff on Breakfast TV showed up his duplicity.
It’s pretty obvious that Village Idiot needs to be rather more even handed.
The matter needs tidying up but it doesn’t call for the death penalty.
As for Samoa, they are in our geograhic sphere of influence therefore we must help them. How many of you critics have been to Samoa and Tonga and know what conditions are like. I have, my heart goes out to those people suffering from the tsunami who live not in developed nations but really Third World countries.Humanity stands before money and politics in all cases.
\
Bruv asks ‘have I donated to the appeal fund’ – No Bro, not yet.
I’m a little puzzled though, at your belief that I might donate some of yours.
Are you okay today?
Village idiot – you are deliberatly being stupid. You know full well BB means tax money being used for aid/charity. He thinks it should be private matter betweern the donor and the recipent organisations.
Peru, Indonesia – and Samoa, have all experienced significant quakes in the last 48 hours. Add to this some fairly major tremors in Fiordland last month.
Somethings up.
DPF – can I suggest you put a blanket and some water down underneath your desk just in case (oh, and your backup files too as well as your laptop). Wellingtons next!
Neil – you’re a Southlander. You know Bill’s lost face down here, people everywhere are dissapointed in him, very dissapointed. You’ve nominated yourself as his champion here and good for you, but there’s been tidal change in the South and you aren’t King Canute.
As to Goff, I care not one whit. He’s not the country’s Finance Minister, responsible for (presumably) honestly managing New Zealand’s finances and he’s not the Member for Clutha/Southland, as is Bill (for the moment).
[DPF: Taking Greenfly as a reputable source of public opinion on Bill is akin to taking Rush Limbaugh's views on Obama]
greenfly – that letter in the Southland Times was next to one praising Bill English. Hardly a turning worm.
Peru, Indonesia – and Samoa, have all experienced significant quakes in the last 48 hours. Add to this some fairly major tremors in Fiordland last month.
Somethings up.
.
Blame global warming. Plenty of eco/green/warmenist sites do already.
Brian – yes I do, yes he does, but my question remains; Does he believe that I am somehow personally influential in the allocation of tax money toward overseas aid, hence my question re his equilibrium today.
As of September 11 there were 59,151 people on the dole. Just think of the contribution and difference NZ could make by sending all these people up to Samoa to assist in the clean up and rebuilding operation.
Brian – ‘that’ letter is one of a series that has run lately. It’s not usual to have Bill’s name being sullied so openly down here. Many would worry about the backlash from the English faithful (doubtless that will come) and keep their opinions to themselves. Now, there are many speaking out. It’s worth noting, but if you prefer to think that Bill’s constituents are happy, that’s fine by me. Come on down and have a chat with the locals sometime. Then you’ll know. They’re not entirely stupid, despite voting for him.
“As for Samoa, they are in our geograhic sphere of influence therefore we must help them. How many of you critics have been to Samoa and Tonga and know what conditions are like.”
It does make a difference if you have been there. And yes, the contrast between church buildings in every village and the general living conditions is marked.
I stayed in a resort last year. If a tsunami had hit while I was there I wouldn’t have had a chance to get to higher ground, even if I was sitting outside watching the sunrise as I often did. One morning I went for a walk for an hour or so, through maybe ten villages, they are pretty much continuous around much of the coastline. The road was atb times barely metres from people sleeping in open fale, metres from the shore. It is easy to see how waves would rip through villages, ripping bodies, ripping families, destroying households.
The Pacific Islands have given something to NZ. They have provided a workforce. And they have provided a handy holiday paradise for many Kiwis. But regardless of that, there are fellow human beings in need of urgent help. Yes, I am donating more than my regular contribitions. And I fully support our government doing what they can to help.
Philu I find it rather amusing that you are continually warning of, and even cheering for, a further massive crash in the US and world economy.
If this was to happen, do you not realise that you would be first in the gun? You have enjoyed years of prosperity of the backs of us, do you think we are going to be able to maintain our generosity if an economic armageddon arrives?
Pete George (10:01am) – “…people in Samoa have nothing”.
It appears they still have spray-cans of paint.
Reports are coming in of graffiti (being painted on resort owner’s damaged vehicles) and looting (from damaged properties). The youth (?) involved could be helping clean up and save as much as possible, but this effort doesn’t seem to have top priority for them.
Some sad losers will do nothing to help themselves – unless you count stealing what you can get away with as “helping yourself”. They are lucky that foreign agencies such as NZ government will step in to help them, even when some of them will not help themselves. But vandalising the property of people already devastated by this disaster just beggars belief!
peter george @10:15
I was referring to the Churches in Manukau and Mangere, and other parts of Auckland. Prime sites, flash buildings, flash houses, poor parishioners.
Reference the comments about graffiti and looting.
It was only a matter of time before the consequences of the practice of sending the bandana and hoodie brigade “home to the village” to straighten out, came home to roost. Grandma and the Aunties haven’t made a lot of impression obviously.
Someone wrote a book about it, I think it was called “The Scum Also Rises”
don’t forget the fact that they might have loyalty to NZ and our products in gratitude (the basis of much of the aid Western countries give the poor) Think also of the high earning talent we import/drain from the islands (not just rugby players BTW but lawyers, doctors, scientists…)
“I was referring to the Churches in Manukau and Mangere, and other parts of Auckland. Prime sites, flash buildings, flash houses, poor parishioners.”
There is possibly more of a contrast in Samoa. Poorer parishioners. Huge pressure to contribute to the churches.
There is often some opportunism and looting after disasters, not a good look – but how big a problem is it? Up until this morning there were few images from the disaster zones. During the Bill English interview they must have cycled through all they had (from Pago Pago and Samoa) at least twice. It’s impossible to get an overall view especially in the first day or two. The extent of the problems will become more apparent today and tomorrow.
You’re an idiot, while it is indeed true that I have a passion for animal welfare issues it is untrue to say that I do not give a “rats arse” about humans.
You are one of the people who think that I should be forced to give my money to a cause that I do not agree with, instead of debating the issue you resort to outlandish accusations in an attempt to shame or guilt me into agreeing with you.
Given that you seem so keen to spend my money I can only assume you are a leftard.
Community is all about give and take, as far as the bottomless pit that is pacific island aide there is plenty of give from New Zealand and plenty of take from the PI’s but nothing coming back the other way.
Bruv, charity should not require reciprocity. If it did, explicitly negotiated reciprocity it would be really just be commerce, while implicitly requested reciprocity it would be emotional bribery/blackmail. As an aside, some might put Len Brown in this latter camp after is near instantaneous offer of funds, a move which will probably gain him some votes.
If there have been instanced where charity is unreasonably consumed, there is a case for redressing that in an absolute sense. But looking to use a genuine disaster to redress that situation would be inhumane IMO.
I just heard that rather stiff prison sentences have been handed out to the chaps who went on a rampage on Auckland’s North Shore last year where they caused all manner of damage and attacked two young couples at Milford.
14 years for the ring leader and 9 1/2 for the others.
Normally I would not be in favour of such severe prison terms but gosh these fellows really did act like animals and have gotten what they deserve; equally impressive is the longer than normal non parole periods.
It shows the system does work and occasionally the ‘right’ people get jailed.
it had bills’ house in dipton..with a cardboard cut-out of english propped up outside..
..and two local yokels standing to one side..”
Don’t believe anything you see in the lefty rag called the ‘Listener’ phil.
The carton was obviously drawn by some tosser who didn’t have the sense to realise that the hardy yeomen of Dipton would never see his brilliant artwork cause down there they only use the skanky rag to wipe their bums with.
Geez life is hard for some of us isnt it.
While the rest of us have to earn a living with the yokel of taxation around our neck, the welfare state shows it is still paying able bodied people to do sweet fuck all..
A flatmate moved out last week, and another guy moved in- 25, no money, no job, on the dole.
He tells us that he didnt think rent was paid until Friday, when we told him it was Monday. We are sure as hell not going to pay for this bludger, as he’s obviously trying to weasel his first week for free.
So he tells us, if we write him a letter saying he has not paid rent and we are unhappy about it (which is true, obviously) he can take it into WINZ, and they will give him an emergency “grant”.
Can someone please tell me why WINZ would give such a tard any more money when he can’t even pay for the most basic necessity?
I’m pleased we the tax payers have promised $1M to samoa, in fact I don’t care if it’s 10times that amount.
It’s chicken feed to NZ really (have a look at our daily social welfare bill) and will make a huge difference to Samoa.
As others have said here today, the Samoan community should be the ones paying for this, all around NZ this Sunday people who cannot afford it will be shamed into donating to their local church.
That money would be better spent on the reconstruction.
Never mind, Neville Key has already decided that he is going to spend a million of my money on this, I also note he is returning early from his holiday to go and see the devastation.
Why the hell would he do that?, the people of Samoa have more important things to worry about than the leader of the Labour…opps, the leader of the National party traipsing around their destructed homeland.
I guess Neville is trying to sure up the PI vote with my money.
[DPF: AFAIK the money is from the budgeted aid budget - it is not extra money. If not spent on this disaster, it would be spent elsewhere]
“..In 2001, the Observer in London published a series of reports that claimed an “Iraqi connection” to al-Qaeda..
.. even describing the base in Iraq where the training of terrorists took place ..
.. and a facility where anthrax was being manufactured as a weapon of mass destruction.
It was all false.
Supplied by US intelligence and Iraqi exiles, planted stories in the British and US media helped George Bush and Tony Blair to launch an illegal invasion..
.. which caused, according to the most recent study .. 1.3 million deaths.
Something similar is happening over Iran: ..
.. the same syncopation of government and media “revelations”..
.. the same manufacture of a sense of crisis.
“Showdown looms with Iran over secret nuclear plant”, declared the Guardian on 26 September.
“Showdown” is the theme.
High noon.
The clock ticking.
Good versus evil.
Add a smooth new US president who has “put paid to the Bush years”.
An immediate echo is the notorious Guardian front page of 22 May 2007: ..
.. “Iran’s secret plan for summer offensive to force US out of Iraq”.
Based on unsubstantiated claims by the Pentagon, the writer Simon Tisdall presented as fact an Iranian “plan” to wage war on, and defeat, US forces in Iraq by September of that year –
- a demonstrable falsehood .. for which there has been no retraction.
The official jargon for this kind of propaganda is “psy-ops”, the military term for psychological operations.
In the Pentagon and Whitehall, it has become a critical component of a diplomatic and military campaign to blockade, isolate and weaken Iran ..
.. by hyping its “nuclear threat”: ..
.. a phrase now used incessantly by Barack Obama and Gordon Brown ..
.. and parroted by the BBC and other broadcasters as objective news.
And it is fake.
On 16 September, Newsweek disclosed that the major US intelligence agencies had reported to the White House that Iran’s “nuclear status” had not changed since the National Intelligence Estimate of November 2007..
.. which stated with “high confidence” that Iran had halted in 2003 the programme it was alleged to have developed.
The International Atomic Energy Agency has backed this..
Nickb at 4.19 p.m.
Please tell us you are exaggerating. If what you say is true it is totally deplorable. How can our country descend to such depths?
I think you should exercise greater care in your choice of flatmate. You might want to suggest to the bludger that he share accommodation with Philu.
Further to Keys foray to the States here is the latest piece from the Wall St Journal.
This is a pretty amazing indictment on the National government – yesterday’s Wall St Journal editorial:
Quote:
Kiwi Carbon Race
New Zealand taxes itself just for the sake of being green.
The global warming religion runs so deep today that most politicians figure it’s best enact some sort of green policy, regardless of whether or not that policy actually reduces global warming. Exhibit number one is New Zealand.
The National Party-led government announced last week amendments to the country’s existing emissions-trading scheme, fulfilling a campaign pledge. Some sectors will now enter the scheme earlier than planned, while the country’s largest export industry, agriculture, will get a two-year reprieve. Wellington’s bureaucrats will also measure businesses’ “emissions intensity” rather than set hard emissions targets, so that firms aren’t penalized for their expansion plans.
The Minister for Climate Change Issues, Nick Smith, said the changes take “a responsible approach to the climate-change problem caused by greenhouse gas emissions while being realistic about how much a small country like New Zealand can contribute.” The Nationals are nominally conservative and keen to appear pro-business.
What Mr. Smith didn’t say is that from an environmental perspective, it doesn’t really matter what New Zealand does. The island nation contributes 0.2% of total global emissions. The amended scheme isn’t expected to reduce even that already-miniscule figure much.
The economic cost to business is also hard to estimate, given that the new bill contains carveouts for certain industries and provisions to amend the legislation in future. The government says by 2030, the fiscal cost could reach 2.2 billion New Zealand dollars ($1.6 billion). Independent economists put that figure much higher because Kiwi businesses will become less competitive internationally as their costs rise.
The Nationals are pushing to pass the bill before the December United Nations climate-change meeting. “This emissions-trading scheme will be the first of any country outside of Europe and, as of 1 July 2010, will be the most comprehensive,” Mr.Smith enthused. But to what end?
Viking2 – I’m still in gob-mouthed disbelief that we’re doing this. Why? Why? Why? Do all our ‘leaders’ feel they need to ransom our futures to secure their UN postings after their inevitable ejection from the Beehive?
Either the UN or that trade outfit or whatever world body gets set up to facilitate 0.0000000001% (give or take a few noughts) of the earth’s population get rich “solving” global warming as we all fry.
Don’t be silly, Bruv. Ko John Key ko he tangata ihu koi ia! Everyone can see that!
Squealing to DPF for a ‘banning’ is kinda girly, doncha think?
Anyway, if you wanted to get rid of me, you only had to prove that you weren’t fibbin yesterday and I’d be nothing but a distant memory.
How can greenies be rational when they’re always stoned on the village grass? Dreadlock utopian holiday eh NanDOR. Spray that insect as the Beehive smells.
Eureka!! Finally an explanation of derivatives that I can understand!
“Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit. In order to increase sales….Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (with the full force of the U. S. Federal Government) told her that they would take away her liquor license, forcing her out of business, unless she agreed to start allowing her customers, many of whom were unemployed alcoholics – to drink now but pay later. She keeps track of the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans).
Word gets around about this drink now pay later marketing strategy, and as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi’s bar and soon she has the largest sale volume for any bar in Detroit. By providing her customers’ freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively.
A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi’s borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern since he has the debts of the alcoholics as collateral.
At the bank’s corporate headquarters, expert traders transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on security markets worldwide.
Naive investors don’t really understand the securities being sold to them as AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics. Nevertheless, their prices continuously climb, and the securities become the top-selling items for some of the nation’s leading brokerage houses who collect enormous fees on their sales, pay extravagant bonuses to their sales force, and who in turn purchase exotic sports cars and multimillion dollar condominiums.
One day, although the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager at the bank (subsequently fired due his negativity), decides that the time has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi’s bar.
Heidi demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Therefore, Heidi cannot fulfill her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy. DRINKBOND and ALKIBOND drop in price by 90 %. PUKEBOND performs better, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %. The decreased bond asset value destroys the banks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans.
The suppliers of Heidi’s bar, having granted her generous payment extensions and having invested in the securities are faced with writing off her debt and losing over 80% on her bonds. Her wine supplier claims bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 50 workers.
The bank and brokerage houses are saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock negotiations by leaders from both political parties. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by a tax levied on employed middle-class non-drinkers.
Chicago’s getting the 2016 Olympics. I can feel it in my bones. No way he would jet off to Copenhagen and campaign for it himself without having the appropriate officials paid off beforehand. Besides, would the IOC dare to deny the One his glory?
philu you really are an idiot.
And as for calling bruv out on animal cruelty.. you force feed your dog a vegan diet.
That is disgusting, and can rightly be called cruelty IMO, dogs are meant to eat meat, it disgusts me the way you treat your animals.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:19 am
Read ‘Letters to the Editor’ in today’s Southland Times to get a feel for how Bill English’s ‘southern people’ feel about his rorting.
The worms! They’re a’turnin’!
October 1st, 2009 at 8:32 am
Newsmax columnist John L. Perry published this article at the site yesterday but the original URL now redirects to Newsmax’s front page. But unfortunately for Newsmax and Mr Perry, Google’s cache still has a copy:http://www.newsmax.com/john_perry/obama_military_coup/2009/09/29/266012.html&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8” rel=”nofollow”> Obama Risks a Domestic Military ‘Intervention’.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:37 am
Tax System explained in Beer
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do..
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.” Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.
So the first four men were unaffected.
They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?’
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a Dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, this is how our tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.
Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.
In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:45 am
This is a bit scary – The FDIC (Financial Deposit Insurance Corporation) which is America’s bank deposit guarantee scheme is broke. According to Time magazine banks, will have to pay the next three years insurance levies in advance but will use some amazing accounting trick so they don’t actually have to part with the money just yet!
Full article here:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1926877,00.html?iid=tsmodule
I wish I could be as creative with my household budget accounting as the money makers are with theirs.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:51 am
@ kaya FDIC cant really go broke. They have a $500 BILLION loan facility with the Treasury which they can draw on (and which is curently undrawn) and they can (and will) levy the banks for whatever they need. They will have to levy the banks higher insurance premia to cover the losses and there will be further losses (bank failures) but the likelihood is the FDIC’s share of the losses will decrease (as banks and PEs compete more to acquire the failed banks).
FDIC in my view should be eliminated and US depositers forced to make rational choices about their investments rather than just stick up to the FDIC limit in the corner “Ma & Pa” bank
October 1st, 2009 at 9:09 am
KiwiGreg – I suppose “broke” is the wrong description but:
“FDIC is worried that if the agency, which has always been privately funded through bank assessments, borrowed money from the Treasury, it would look like a new bank bailout, eroding the sliver of confidence the public has regained in our nation’s banking system in the past few months.”
As the whole US financial system is an illusion that is only being held together by faith, this latest development has the potential to shake that faith and cause more problems for that system. Another big shock coming in the markets maybe?
October 1st, 2009 at 9:15 am
got this from climate debate site last night.
http://www.snowboardclub.co.uk/news-8612.html
Lovely picture and to think it is just 5 hrs from the capital.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:16 am
Stan Semenoff
Mayor
Whangarei District Council
Private Bag 9011
Whangarei
Cc:
Mark Simpson
Chief Executive Officer
Whangarei District Council
Private Bag 9011
Whangarei
1 October 2009
Dear Stan,
The Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 (LAMIA) controls the making of contracts worth more than $25,000 in a financial year between the Whangarei District Council and yourself.
The role of the Office of the Auditor-General in administering the LAMIA includes deciding applications for approval of contracts worth more than $25,000 in a financial year.
The disqualification rule also applies if you are concerned or interested in a contract with the Whangarei District Council as a subcontractor, as if it were a contract directly with the Whangarei District Council. The limit of $25,000 applies to the value of the subcontract, not the head contract.
The term “subcontract” is defined in section 2(1) of the Act. The definition is wider than the generally understood meaning, because it extends to subsidiary transactions. For example, if you are involved in a contract with an authority as an agent for the other contracting party (such as a real estate agent acting in respect of a property transaction), the arrangement for your remuneration as agent falls within the definition of a subcontract.
The Office of the Auditor-General can grant prior approval for contracts and limited powers to grant retrospective approval for contracts that have already been entered into that would otherwise take yourself above the $25,000 limit in any financial year.
The Office of the Auditor-General prefers to specify a precise monetary amount or upper limit, but if the exact amount is not yet known, a reasonable estimate of a suitable upper limit is sufficient. Where the approval relates to an ongoing arrangement, the Office of the Auditor-General usual practice is to grant approval for only one financial year at a time.
When the Whangarei District Council makes purchases from businesses in which you have an interest, it should establish some form of monitoring system to provide regular checks of the accumulating value of contracts.
Contracts that have obtained the approval of the Office of the Auditor-General should be monitored, to ensure that payments do not exceed the amount approved. This can easily happen if contracts are varied or extended.
However the details of the approvals that the Office of the Auditor-General have granted to the Whangarei District Council for yourself, shall not be released by the Office of the Auditor-General, but these details should be requested from the Whangarei District Council or yourself.
I hereby request that you release the following information,
i) All details of the application by the WDC under s 3(3) (a) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act for yourself, and responses from the Office of the Auditor-General; and
ii) All details of the application by the WDC under s 3(3)(aa) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act for yourself, and responses from the Office of the Auditor-General.
Thanks
Terry
October 1st, 2009 at 9:21 am
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/why-are-we-lying-to-ourselves-about-our-catastrophic-economic-meltdown/
“..Sorry, it’s not over yet.
This downturn will be severe and long-lasting..
.. and profoundly re-shape our lives, culture, society .. and the world.
Over the last year, the world has received a crash course in real-world capitalism as the follies of Wall Street nearly torpedoed the global economy..
.. which had to be rescued by a trillion-dollar government handout.
Economics, the study of systems of production, distribution and consumption of goods and services, touches virtually facet of our lives from work, recreation and home life to entertainment, culture and social relations.
While there is a wealth of information and some excellent reporters in the business press..
.. the mainstream media has botched virtually every major economic story over the last decade.
It helped inflate the Internet bubble.
It worshiped at the shrine of the free market and Alan Greenspan.
It ignored the evidence of the housing bubble.
It was missing in action on the commodities bubble.
It celebrated billionaires and speculators .. even as they manufactured financial weapons of mass destruction.
It only sporadically reports on the myriad ways Wall Street games the financial system.
Even now, the corporate media downplay the scope of the disastrous U.S. economy.
The current economic downturn, the longest since the Great Depression more than 70 years ago..
.. has been dubbed by many the “Great Recession.”
It’s a useful way for journalists to acknowledge the pain of tens of millions of Americans who have lost homes, livelihoods, health care and more…
.. while distinguishing the current misfortune from the Great Depression.
But the term also makes the situation seem rosier than it is.
Despite the financial industry’s self-induced catastrophe in 2008..
.. most corporate media reporting still assumes “What’s good for Wall Street is good for America.”
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has already said this recession is “very likely over.”
The S&P 500 index, from its low point in March 2009, has rocketed upward by nearly 60 percent in barely six months.
And Wall Street banks are reporting record profits ..
.. less than a year after taxpayers threw them a trillion-dollar lifeline.
But for the average household, the reality is grim.
The number of unemployed and underemployed is nearly 17 percent of the U.S. workforce .. or around 25 million people.
Residential mortgage foreclosure filings have exceeded 300,000 a month for six months in a row, starting in March 2009.
Tent cities are sprouting across the country.
Personal incomes continues to shrink, and it’s projected that medical bankruptcies, people who file for personal bankruptcy because of medical bills..
.. will reach 900,000 cases this year..”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 9:23 am
I note that one or two commentators are calling for the NZ tax payer to pay for the reconstruction of Samoa, while I have the deepest sympathy for those who lost loved ones yesterday I cannot see how it is our responsibility to pay for the reconstruction.
We simply cannot afford it.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:28 am
“We simply cannot afford it”
Indeed Big Bruv. We need all the money the country can muster to ensure that folks like phil u are able to keep their bongs and crackpipes filled every week !
October 1st, 2009 at 9:34 am
We simply must help Samoa bb. Just like other countries will help us when we have a major disaster. It’s what neighbours in particular should do.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:37 am
Scanner – what an excellent post, it sums up the World rather accurately – well done!
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
October 1st, 2009 at 9:38 am
Terry – you appear to have posted your letter in this forum rather than sending it to the addressee. You should redirect your mail.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:48 am
big bruv, all well and good, but I am sure those lovely friendly Chinese will have plenty of aid money if we do not stump up.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:48 am
Pete
Would Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, and the rest of the pacific island countries help us if we had a major disaster?
Of course not, we already send money to the islands, most of this money does not have to be accounted for, we have enough issues here in New Zealand to worry about without endlessly handing over money to pacific island nations.
Colonel
Good, let the Chinese pay for it.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:52 am
“it sums up the World rather accurately ”
It doesn’t mention that the richest man relies on the others to be able to become rich in the first place.
It doesn’t mention what happens when most of the high earners earn far more than average earners doing non-productive types of work. With gambling for every winner there are usually many losers.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:53 am
BB – you’re a cold individual. Do you ever consider how you would want to be treated if such an even happened to your family? I feel sorry for you if your view of the world means you would only ever do something for someone else if you thought you were going to get a financial gain in return…
October 1st, 2009 at 9:58 am
Not1
I believe in helping our own, first and foremost it is my job to look after MY family, then the people of MY country.
If we could afford it then of course we should help, the fact remains that we cannot.
Charity begins at home Not1, when we have fixed the many problems we have in this country we can start splashing cash around the pacific.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:01 am
“Would Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, and the rest of the pacific island countries help us if we had a major disaster?”
I’m sure they would do what they could do to help. May not be much but they would do what they could. I don’t think the world has become totally selfish and money obsessed yet, although some individuals may have.
It’s not “splashing cash” FFS, it’s doing what we can to help whole families and whole communities who have been devastated. My family can get by with a bit less. People in Samoa have got nothing.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:05 am
Maybe BB is sick of it only being Western nations that seem to offer any meaningful help anywhere in the world when there is a disaster. I was in the States a few weeks after the Boxing Day Tsunami and the US was being criticised for it’s lack of goivernment aid. Never mind that they had parked a nuclear carrier up within days and were supplying power to the Indonesian grid, were using their aircraft and ships to ferry aid and supplies in, and that private US charities give away billions a year in overseas aid.
At the same time, Saudi Arabia belatedly held a telethon and raised a respectable $US70m, abotu half of which was donated by members of the Saudi royal family. a year or so before, a telethon in Saudi raised $US170m for familes of suicide bomber martyrs (again a large chunk being donated by the royal family).
I believe we should help Samoa, but no cash should be just handed over to them. Any aid should be managed by the NZ government to minimise corruption.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:09 am
I agree we should ensure our aid money is reprioritised in light of the Tsunami but would also like to see a fair bit of cash currently tithed to support a bunch of luxury churches staffed by ministers living in (considerably) above average accommodation, also redirected to the rebuilding efforts.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:10 am
“..We need all the money the country can muster to ensure that folks like”..bill..(double-dip-dipton) english..and roger (‘it’s my holiday..and you’ll pay for it!’) douglas..
..can keep troughing..
and as a b.t.w..
i haven’t smoked crack for twenty years..(and yes..it was ‘real’ crack..not yr bathtub speed crap ‘ice’..
that mugs use today..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 10:15 am
David, Samoan churches stand out as huge monuments to warped priorities, but ironically in many villages at the moment they may be the best and possibly only shelter still available.
Unfortunately I think we are yet to see the worst of it.
The death toll is expected to rise considerably today, as rescuers reach the worst hit areas in both Samoa and American Samoa.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600598
October 1st, 2009 at 10:23 am
Big Bruv – charity does indeed, begin at home. But it’s not supposed to end there.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:23 am
One word bruv – community. Shame you draw such black and white lines…
October 1st, 2009 at 10:24 am
phlu, do you think the US bail-out package of over $US 1.5 Trillion (and counting) was the right response from Obama?
The thing about the ‘market’ is that if you leave it to itself it will self-correct. Many businesses and institutions would go under, people would lose their life savings, and other bad stuff. But afterwards you are left with the ‘fit’ banks and businesses.
Instead the US is saddled with extra debt, and the only lesson learnt by corporate America is that greed is even better because even if you fuck up the world economy the taxpayer will bail you out so you can try again.
Instead of the massive bailout packages to corporate, rescue packages for individuals would have made more sense. The chance of bailout money filtering from the big banks etc down to the average joe are pretty slim. But give it to the average joe and he is going to pump it straight into the economy to buy what he needs to survive.
Obama really robbed the poor (and their children, and grandchildren etc) to give to the rich, and it hasn’t fixed anything. What we’re experiencing now (now that ‘the recession is over’) is simply a dead cat bounce.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:27 am
Makes you think though, about the ‘changes’ the National Government have made to how and where we give overseas aid, doesn’t it?
October 1st, 2009 at 10:28 am
Not1
Community is all about give and take, as far as the bottomless pit that is pacific island aide there is plenty of give from New Zealand and plenty of take from the PI’s but nothing coming back the other way.
Sorry, not our problem.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:30 am
NOT1tocommentoften – careful !! ‘community’ sounds very much like ‘communism’ !!!
Eeeeeek!
October 1st, 2009 at 10:30 am
Not1, Greenfly, and all the rest who think it is our responsibility to pay for the reconstruction, can I ask you this question (and I would hope that I get an honest reply)
Have YOU donated any of your own money to the appeal fund?
If so, good for you, that is your choice and I respect you for it, however, you have no right to spend MY money without my consent.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:31 am
Village Idiot’s inane comments about a letter to the editor in the Southland Times about Bill English just shows how naive and ignorant he is.
I would say that the writer, a MrE.J.Flynn, is a good Labour supporter and is certainly not a constituent of Mr English.
Perhaps Village Idiot might like to find out about Phil Goff’s home “rorts” during the time he was a minister in the Clarke government.Yesterdays interview with Goff on Breakfast TV showed up his duplicity.
It’s pretty obvious that Village Idiot needs to be rather more even handed.
The matter needs tidying up but it doesn’t call for the death penalty.
As for Samoa, they are in our geograhic sphere of influence therefore we must help them. How many of you critics have been to Samoa and Tonga and know what conditions are like. I have, my heart goes out to those people suffering from the tsunami who live not in developed nations but really Third World countries.Humanity stands before money and politics in all cases.
\
October 1st, 2009 at 10:34 am
BB – that is why I prefer private and not government aid.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:36 am
Bruv asks ‘have I donated to the appeal fund’ – No Bro, not yet.
I’m a little puzzled though, at your belief that I might donate some of yours.
Are you okay today?
October 1st, 2009 at 10:38 am
Village idiot – you are deliberatly being stupid. You know full well BB means tax money being used for aid/charity. He thinks it should be private matter betweern the donor and the recipent organisations.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:38 am
Peru, Indonesia – and Samoa, have all experienced significant quakes in the last 48 hours. Add to this some fairly major tremors in Fiordland last month.
Somethings up.
DPF – can I suggest you put a blanket and some water down underneath your desk just in case (oh, and your backup files too as well as your laptop). Wellingtons next!
October 1st, 2009 at 10:38 am
Bugger, my tinfoil hat just fell off.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:39 am
Greenfly
Thank you for your first honest answer.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:40 am
Neil – you’re a Southlander. You know Bill’s lost face down here, people everywhere are dissapointed in him, very dissapointed. You’ve nominated yourself as his champion here and good for you, but there’s been tidal change in the South and you aren’t King Canute.
As to Goff, I care not one whit. He’s not the country’s Finance Minister, responsible for (presumably) honestly managing New Zealand’s finances and he’s not the Member for Clutha/Southland, as is Bill (for the moment).
[DPF: Taking Greenfly as a reputable source of public opinion on Bill is akin to taking Rush Limbaugh's views on Obama]
October 1st, 2009 at 10:43 am
greenfly – that letter in the Southland Times was next to one praising Bill English. Hardly a turning worm.
Blame global warming. Plenty of eco/green/warmenist sites do already.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:44 am
Brian – yes I do, yes he does, but my question remains; Does he believe that I am somehow personally influential in the allocation of tax money toward overseas aid, hence my question re his equilibrium today.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:45 am
As of September 11 there were 59,151 people on the dole. Just think of the contribution and difference NZ could make by sending all these people up to Samoa to assist in the clean up and rebuilding operation.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:48 am
Big bruv shows his true colours when he declares that he loves animals but doesn’t give a rats arse about people who’ve lost everything.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:48 am
Brian – ‘that’ letter is one of a series that has run lately. It’s not usual to have Bill’s name being sullied so openly down here. Many would worry about the backlash from the English faithful (doubtless that will come) and keep their opinions to themselves. Now, there are many speaking out. It’s worth noting, but if you prefer to think that Bill’s constituents are happy, that’s fine by me. Come on down and have a chat with the locals sometime. Then you’ll know. They’re not entirely stupid, despite voting for him.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:57 am
“As for Samoa, they are in our geograhic sphere of influence therefore we must help them. How many of you critics have been to Samoa and Tonga and know what conditions are like.”
It does make a difference if you have been there. And yes, the contrast between church buildings in every village and the general living conditions is marked.
I stayed in a resort last year. If a tsunami had hit while I was there I wouldn’t have had a chance to get to higher ground, even if I was sitting outside watching the sunrise as I often did. One morning I went for a walk for an hour or so, through maybe ten villages, they are pretty much continuous around much of the coastline. The road was atb times barely metres from people sleeping in open fale, metres from the shore. It is easy to see how waves would rip through villages, ripping bodies, ripping families, destroying households.
The Pacific Islands have given something to NZ. They have provided a workforce. And they have provided a handy holiday paradise for many Kiwis. But regardless of that, there are fellow human beings in need of urgent help. Yes, I am donating more than my regular contribitions. And I fully support our government doing what they can to help.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:58 am
Well said Mr George
October 1st, 2009 at 11:35 am
Philu I find it rather amusing that you are continually warning of, and even cheering for, a further massive crash in the US and world economy.
If this was to happen, do you not realise that you would be first in the gun? You have enjoyed years of prosperity of the backs of us, do you think we are going to be able to maintain our generosity if an economic armageddon arrives?
October 1st, 2009 at 11:36 am
“..[DPF: Taking Greenfly as a reputable source of public opinion on Bill is akin to taking Rush Limbaugh's views on Obama]..”
didn’t you see that [pll..dpf..?..
that one that had 62% of those polled agreed english has been rorting…?
(the listener had a cracker cartoon..too..
it had bills’ house in dipton..with a cardboard cut-out of english propped up outside..
..and two local yokels standing to one side..
..one saying to the other…’bill’s fooling nobody’..
and i could well see how a deeply (old-fashioned) conservative area..
..would have a serious reaction to their mp being a rorter…
..eh..?
and..interesting simile you use there..
given you contend fly is talking absolute rubbish..
you concede that limbaugh talks absolute rubbish..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 11:40 am
and..big bruv dosen’t ‘care about animals’..
he cares about dogs..
and kills/eats anything else that moves..
and..isn’t he such a good advertisment for rightwing thought/ideas..?
..that big bruv..
..how he is just so imbued with the milk of human kindness..
and not the souless/greedy/vile imperatives usually attributed to those of the right..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 11:58 am
Pete George (10:01am) – “…people in Samoa have nothing”.
It appears they still have spray-cans of paint.
Reports are coming in of graffiti (being painted on resort owner’s damaged vehicles) and looting (from damaged properties). The youth (?) involved could be helping clean up and save as much as possible, but this effort doesn’t seem to have top priority for them.
Some sad losers will do nothing to help themselves – unless you count stealing what you can get away with as “helping yourself”. They are lucky that foreign agencies such as NZ government will step in to help them, even when some of them will not help themselves. But vandalising the property of people already devastated by this disaster just beggars belief!
October 1st, 2009 at 12:15 pm
why don’t you go and stand in the ‘odious’ corner..3 coil..
over there..with big bruv..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 12:23 pm
philu – I’m curious why you want to defend the actions of looters and vandals?
October 1st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
nah..!..you are just grabbing any excuse for a race-bash..
pjil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 12:45 pm
“haven’t smoked crack for twenty years..(and yes..it was ‘real’ crack..not yr bathtub speed crap ‘ice’..”
..well it certainly fucked you up whore…melted ya grey matter…fried ya brain…what other possible reason is there for your ramblings…eh ?? eh ??
October 1st, 2009 at 12:55 pm
peter george @10:15
I was referring to the Churches in Manukau and Mangere, and other parts of Auckland. Prime sites, flash buildings, flash houses, poor parishioners.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Reference the comments about graffiti and looting.
It was only a matter of time before the consequences of the practice of sending the bandana and hoodie brigade “home to the village” to straighten out, came home to roost. Grandma and the Aunties haven’t made a lot of impression obviously.
Someone wrote a book about it, I think it was called “The Scum Also Rises”
October 1st, 2009 at 1:03 pm
philu (12:33pm) – I can see I am superfluous to your little “discussion” (with yourself) here. I have to get back to work, so I’ll leave you to it!
October 1st, 2009 at 1:13 pm
don’t forget the fact that they might have loyalty to NZ and our products in gratitude (the basis of much of the aid Western countries give the poor) Think also of the high earning talent we import/drain from the islands (not just rugby players BTW but lawyers, doctors, scientists…)
October 1st, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“I was referring to the Churches in Manukau and Mangere, and other parts of Auckland. Prime sites, flash buildings, flash houses, poor parishioners.”
There is possibly more of a contrast in Samoa. Poorer parishioners. Huge pressure to contribute to the churches.
There is often some opportunism and looting after disasters, not a good look – but how big a problem is it? Up until this morning there were few images from the disaster zones. During the Bill English interview they must have cycled through all they had (from Pago Pago and Samoa) at least twice. It’s impossible to get an overall view especially in the first day or two. The extent of the problems will become more apparent today and tomorrow.
October 1st, 2009 at 2:31 pm
phlu, I’ve got something shiny for you my little magpie…
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/rbs-execs-to-rev-their-ferraris-very-loudly-outside-your-house-200902051559/
October 1st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Joe90
You’re an idiot, while it is indeed true that I have a passion for animal welfare issues it is untrue to say that I do not give a “rats arse” about humans.
You are one of the people who think that I should be forced to give my money to a cause that I do not agree with, instead of debating the issue you resort to outlandish accusations in an attempt to shame or guilt me into agreeing with you.
Given that you seem so keen to spend my money I can only assume you are a leftard.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Bruv, charity should not require reciprocity. If it did, explicitly negotiated reciprocity it would be really just be commerce, while implicitly requested reciprocity it would be emotional bribery/blackmail. As an aside, some might put Len Brown in this latter camp after is near instantaneous offer of funds, a move which will probably gain him some votes.
If there have been instanced where charity is unreasonably consumed, there is a case for redressing that in an absolute sense. But looking to use a genuine disaster to redress that situation would be inhumane IMO.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm
I just heard that rather stiff prison sentences have been handed out to the chaps who went on a rampage on Auckland’s North Shore last year where they caused all manner of damage and attacked two young couples at Milford.
14 years for the ring leader and 9 1/2 for the others.
Normally I would not be in favour of such severe prison terms but gosh these fellows really did act like animals and have gotten what they deserve; equally impressive is the longer than normal non parole periods.
It shows the system does work and occasionally the ‘right’ people get jailed.
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
October 1st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
“(the listener had a cracker cartoon..too..
it had bills’ house in dipton..with a cardboard cut-out of english propped up outside..
..and two local yokels standing to one side..”
Don’t believe anything you see in the lefty rag called the ‘Listener’ phil.
The carton was obviously drawn by some tosser who didn’t have the sense to realise that the hardy yeomen of Dipton would never see his brilliant artwork cause down there they only use the skanky rag to wipe their bums with.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Why Shame on Big Bruv? shame on the felchers grabbing at the publics pockets imo.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Geez life is hard for some of us isnt it.
While the rest of us have to earn a living with the yokel of taxation around our neck, the welfare state shows it is still paying able bodied people to do sweet fuck all..
A flatmate moved out last week, and another guy moved in- 25, no money, no job, on the dole.
He tells us that he didnt think rent was paid until Friday, when we told him it was Monday. We are sure as hell not going to pay for this bludger, as he’s obviously trying to weasel his first week for free.
So he tells us, if we write him a letter saying he has not paid rent and we are unhappy about it (which is true, obviously) he can take it into WINZ, and they will give him an emergency “grant”.
Can someone please tell me why WINZ would give such a tard any more money when he can’t even pay for the most basic necessity?
October 1st, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I’m pleased we the tax payers have promised $1M to samoa, in fact I don’t care if it’s 10times that amount.
It’s chicken feed to NZ really (have a look at our daily social welfare bill) and will make a huge difference to Samoa.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
getstaffed
As others have said here today, the Samoan community should be the ones paying for this, all around NZ this Sunday people who cannot afford it will be shamed into donating to their local church.
That money would be better spent on the reconstruction.
Never mind, Neville Key has already decided that he is going to spend a million of my money on this, I also note he is returning early from his holiday to go and see the devastation.
Why the hell would he do that?, the people of Samoa have more important things to worry about than the leader of the Labour…opps, the leader of the National party traipsing around their destructed homeland.
I guess Neville is trying to sure up the PI vote with my money.
[DPF: AFAIK the money is from the budgeted aid budget - it is not extra money. If not spent on this disaster, it would be spent elsewhere]
October 1st, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Then why not spend it at home on our own economic disaster.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:04 pm
dpf..it must be just about time for you to start beating the war-drums..for military action against iran..eh..?
that it will be a bunch of lies/war-propaganda won’t really matter..eh..?..(c.f…iraq)..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/john-pilgerthe-lying-game/
“..In 2001, the Observer in London published a series of reports that claimed an “Iraqi connection” to al-Qaeda..
.. even describing the base in Iraq where the training of terrorists took place ..
.. and a facility where anthrax was being manufactured as a weapon of mass destruction.
It was all false.
Supplied by US intelligence and Iraqi exiles, planted stories in the British and US media helped George Bush and Tony Blair to launch an illegal invasion..
.. which caused, according to the most recent study .. 1.3 million deaths.
Something similar is happening over Iran: ..
.. the same syncopation of government and media “revelations”..
.. the same manufacture of a sense of crisis.
“Showdown looms with Iran over secret nuclear plant”, declared the Guardian on 26 September.
“Showdown” is the theme.
High noon.
The clock ticking.
Good versus evil.
Add a smooth new US president who has “put paid to the Bush years”.
An immediate echo is the notorious Guardian front page of 22 May 2007: ..
.. “Iran’s secret plan for summer offensive to force US out of Iraq”.
Based on unsubstantiated claims by the Pentagon, the writer Simon Tisdall presented as fact an Iranian “plan” to wage war on, and defeat, US forces in Iraq by September of that year –
- a demonstrable falsehood .. for which there has been no retraction.
The official jargon for this kind of propaganda is “psy-ops”, the military term for psychological operations.
In the Pentagon and Whitehall, it has become a critical component of a diplomatic and military campaign to blockade, isolate and weaken Iran ..
.. by hyping its “nuclear threat”: ..
.. a phrase now used incessantly by Barack Obama and Gordon Brown ..
.. and parroted by the BBC and other broadcasters as objective news.
And it is fake.
On 16 September, Newsweek disclosed that the major US intelligence agencies had reported to the White House that Iran’s “nuclear status” had not changed since the National Intelligence Estimate of November 2007..
.. which stated with “high confidence” that Iran had halted in 2003 the programme it was alleged to have developed.
The International Atomic Energy Agency has backed this..
.. time and again..”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Anything written by John Pilger, the Grauniad and Newsweak is anti-Western junk.
Also, the infamous NIE of late 2007 is politically motivated falsehoods, much like more of the Iraq intelligence.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:19 pm
neat twist there hurf..!
call the evidence of the bullshit as ‘infamous’…
and then do a double flip to equate it to the lies told to justify attacking iraq..
brilliant..!
why don’t you apply for a job with those lying pricks..
you appear to have a natural ‘bent’ for it..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Only bullshit here is from the IAEA, which is part of the Turd World-friendly and anti-Western UN.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:36 pm
In other phool lunacy:
Over the last year, the world has received a crash course in real-world capitalism as the follies of Wall Street nearly torpedoed the global economy..
.. which had to be rescued by a trillion-dollar government handout.
People still believe that?
October 1st, 2009 at 5:38 pm
that’s right hurf..!
i keep forgetting..
everyone .. but you..is a ‘commie’..eh..?
silly me..!
what was i thinking..?
attempting a rationale discussion with a loon..
(my bad..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Talking of chatting to a “loon” phool how is Mrs Bong?
October 1st, 2009 at 5:43 pm
And phool heaves his emaciated body out of the window to escape once again. Bet you did that a lot in your illustrious thieving career.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:48 pm
“..Talking of chatting to a “loon”..
here’s d4j..!
still with the same old..same old..?
eh..?
well..well..!
how ‘exciting’ to have you back..
(you ginga-loon..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 5:51 pm
I maybe a ginga, but I am not an ex armed robber who constantly bongs and writes dribble on blogosphere!
October 1st, 2009 at 6:10 pm
so..what’s your excuse..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 6:12 pm
“..I maybe (sic) a ginga,”..(heh..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 6:20 pm
John Key to ‘drop in ‘ on Samoa.
Oh, FFS!
He should keep his sharp nose out of there.
Who the fuck does he think he is!
October 1st, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Nickb at 4.19 p.m.
Please tell us you are exaggerating. If what you say is true it is totally deplorable. How can our country descend to such depths?
I think you should exercise greater care in your choice of flatmate. You might want to suggest to the bludger that he share accommodation with Philu.
October 1st, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Greenshit – Helen taught him well, get involved with international issues and fuck New Zealand.
October 1st, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Greenfly
“John Key to ‘drop in ‘ on Samoa.
Oh, FFS!
He should keep his sharp nose out of there.”
That is a low blow even for you, one would hope that DPF bans you (again) for blatant racial abuse
October 1st, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Further to Keys foray to the States here is the latest piece from the Wall St Journal.
This is a pretty amazing indictment on the National government – yesterday’s Wall St Journal editorial:
Quote:
Kiwi Carbon Race
New Zealand taxes itself just for the sake of being green.
The global warming religion runs so deep today that most politicians figure it’s best enact some sort of green policy, regardless of whether or not that policy actually reduces global warming. Exhibit number one is New Zealand.
The National Party-led government announced last week amendments to the country’s existing emissions-trading scheme, fulfilling a campaign pledge. Some sectors will now enter the scheme earlier than planned, while the country’s largest export industry, agriculture, will get a two-year reprieve. Wellington’s bureaucrats will also measure businesses’ “emissions intensity” rather than set hard emissions targets, so that firms aren’t penalized for their expansion plans.
The Minister for Climate Change Issues, Nick Smith, said the changes take “a responsible approach to the climate-change problem caused by greenhouse gas emissions while being realistic about how much a small country like New Zealand can contribute.” The Nationals are nominally conservative and keen to appear pro-business.
What Mr. Smith didn’t say is that from an environmental perspective, it doesn’t really matter what New Zealand does. The island nation contributes 0.2% of total global emissions. The amended scheme isn’t expected to reduce even that already-miniscule figure much.
The economic cost to business is also hard to estimate, given that the new bill contains carveouts for certain industries and provisions to amend the legislation in future. The government says by 2030, the fiscal cost could reach 2.2 billion New Zealand dollars ($1.6 billion). Independent economists put that figure much higher because Kiwi businesses will become less competitive internationally as their costs rise.
The Nationals are pushing to pass the bill before the December United Nations climate-change meeting. “This emissions-trading scheme will be the first of any country outside of Europe and, as of 1 July 2010, will be the most comprehensive,” Mr.Smith enthused. But to what end?
October 1st, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Viking2 – I’m still in gob-mouthed disbelief that we’re doing this. Why? Why? Why? Do all our ‘leaders’ feel they need to ransom our futures to secure their UN postings after their inevitable ejection from the Beehive?
October 1st, 2009 at 7:31 pm
My God!
getstuffed!
You got it in one!
Either the UN or that trade outfit or whatever world body gets set up to facilitate 0.0000000001% (give or take a few noughts) of the earth’s population get rich “solving” global warming as we all fry.
October 1st, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Cause Nick and John say we have to! Rudd has got the Greenfly even worse.
The Emperor Has no Clothes , as they say.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:11 pm
No Tauhei, sadly it is true.
And yes, philu are you looking for a faltmate? He shares many common traits with yourself
October 1st, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Don’t be silly, Bruv. Ko John Key ko he tangata ihu koi ia! Everyone can see that!
Squealing to DPF for a ‘banning’ is kinda girly, doncha think?
Anyway, if you wanted to get rid of me, you only had to prove that you weren’t fibbin yesterday and I’d be nothing but a distant memory.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:54 pm
D4md – ever the gentleman.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:10 pm
lol @ Farrar bringing Greenfly back because he showed himself to be slightly rational as village idiot. No Greenie is ever rational.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Nandor is.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:15 pm
How can greenies be rational when they’re always stoned on the village grass? Dreadlock utopian holiday eh NanDOR. Spray that insect as the Beehive smells.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:16 pm
What does Nando’s Chicken have to do with this?
October 1st, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Up in smoke said NanDOR to the security guard.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:28 pm
I’m being thrashed here, by the combined wit of d4md and hurfdurf! That’s a pile of wit!
Better run for cover – in this case, duvet!
Kia reka to korua moemoenga
October 1st, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Wharkoff wharkwit
October 1st, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Eureka!! Finally an explanation of derivatives that I can understand!
“Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit. In order to increase sales….Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (with the full force of the U. S. Federal Government) told her that they would take away her liquor license, forcing her out of business, unless she agreed to start allowing her customers, many of whom were unemployed alcoholics – to drink now but pay later. She keeps track of the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans).
Word gets around about this drink now pay later marketing strategy, and as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi’s bar and soon she has the largest sale volume for any bar in Detroit. By providing her customers’ freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively.
A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi’s borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern since he has the debts of the alcoholics as collateral.
At the bank’s corporate headquarters, expert traders transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on security markets worldwide.
Naive investors don’t really understand the securities being sold to them as AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics. Nevertheless, their prices continuously climb, and the securities become the top-selling items for some of the nation’s leading brokerage houses who collect enormous fees on their sales, pay extravagant bonuses to their sales force, and who in turn purchase exotic sports cars and multimillion dollar condominiums.
One day, although the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager at the bank (subsequently fired due his negativity), decides that the time has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi’s bar.
Heidi demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Therefore, Heidi cannot fulfill her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy. DRINKBOND and ALKIBOND drop in price by 90 %. PUKEBOND performs better, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %. The decreased bond asset value destroys the banks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans.
The suppliers of Heidi’s bar, having granted her generous payment extensions and having invested in the securities are faced with writing off her debt and losing over 80% on her bonds. Her wine supplier claims bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 50 workers.
The bank and brokerage houses are saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock negotiations by leaders from both political parties. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by a tax levied on employed middle-class non-drinkers.
Finally an explanation I understand.”
October 1st, 2009 at 9:44 pm
kaya, on that note, and the book you were talking to me about the other day, check out
http://mises.org/literature.aspx
Its awesome, you can download hundreds of free economic, finance and law books in pdf format for free.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:46 pm
d4j..and hurf..
they should mate..eh..?
(they’d have real smart kids..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 1st, 2009 at 9:46 pm
And btw that post is escellent, hadn’t really got my head round derivatives either.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Try and pull your depraved mind from the gutter every so often phool OR just STOP smoking huge amounts of dak you stupid crackpot.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Chicago’s getting the 2016 Olympics. I can feel it in my bones. No way he would jet off to Copenhagen and campaign for it himself without having the appropriate officials paid off beforehand. Besides, would the IOC dare to deny the One his glory?
October 1st, 2009 at 9:57 pm
philu you really are an idiot.
And as for calling bruv out on animal cruelty.. you force feed your dog a vegan diet.
That is disgusting, and can rightly be called cruelty IMO, dogs are meant to eat meat, it disgusts me the way you treat your animals.
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:53 am
nickb – thanks for the link.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 am
here you are nckb..
pictures of ‘cruelly-treated’ vegan dogs..
http://www.vegandogsworld.com/search?updated-max=2009-09-16T05%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7
(pull yr ignorant head out of your arse..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)