General Debate 31 October 2009

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Pete George

DPF has posted on all the praising Herald first year items on Key and National (I agree with most of it) – but one comment is worth highlighting here:

Key’s willingness to search for ideas outside conventional boundaries is in tune with an electorate less hung-up about ideology than in the 1980s and 1990s.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10606386

A few blog posters could benefit from pondering this, and considering tuning into a new way of thinking politically – practical, pragmatic and positive.

In many ways Key has been like a breath of fresh air – try breathing it.
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October 31, 2009 9:17am
gravedodger

Just can’t let it pass. Would now be a great time to start Daylight saving. Beautiful morning and so much to do. Nearest Sunday to November one or 11/1 if you wish .BEAUDY !!!
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October 31, 2009 9:24am
davidp

The Search Surveillance Bill we discussed here a few days ago is really starting to worry me. It looks suspiciously like the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, including the claim that it is just tidying up and codifying investigative or surveillance powers, and the ability of dozens of different government agencies to monitor people.

This article describes the situation in the UK in some detail. It focuses on the case of a woman and her children who were covertly followed by council workers for three weeks and who had her telephone records used as part of their investigation. An investigation in to terrorism? Errr, no. They thought she was trying to enroll her children in an out of zone school.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/world/europe/25surveillance.html?_r=2
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October 31, 2009 9:25am
Elijah Lineberry

I wish Sky Movies 1 would play something decent in the 8:30pm timeslot for once.

*sigh*

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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October 31, 2009 9:27am
reid

‘Dumb’ American criminals attempt robbery with ‘permanent marker pen disguises’
Two hapless ~~robbers~~ Green voters in America, Matthew McNelly and Joey Miller, have been arrested with the “worst disguises ever” after trying to hide their faces with permanent marker pen.
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October 31, 2009 9:34am
thedavincimode

Wonderful.

But are the cops correct? Is it the worst disguise ever?

Surely the award for worst disguise would have to go to the pointless flapping seagull’s disguise as a decent, credible and ethical politician and opposition party leader.
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October 31, 2009 10:21am
Jack5

The Christchurch Press today exceeds expectations that the MSM would pounce on the Michael Laws (now alleged) suggestion of incentivising long-term birth control for the bottom layer of society.

This is despite the NZ Herald carrying a story that Laws denies he suggested all welfare beneficiaries be sterilised. Laws says the report was a misinterpretation.

The Dominion Post, a member of the same media chain as the Christchurch Press, earlier in the week reported that Laws proposed sterilisation to prevent child abuse. It reported Laws suggested a $10,000 payment for people who went along with it.

In an editorial today the Christchurch Press, while defending Laws’ right to have the (alleged) opinion, weaves into the piece comments about the National Front, Nazi salutes etc. The editorial’s justification for the Nazi “link” is “a photograph which recently surfaced of National Front members throwing Nazi salutes at their conference last year.”

This must be considered for the the least plausible logical link used in an editorial anywhere, any time.

After the Nazi smear by association, the editorial trots out a leftist and a liberal, Joris de Bres and Rosemary McLeod, the veteran Wellington columnist who once labelled Don Brash a racist for calling for equal treatment for all under the law.

Meanwhile the separately owned NZ Herald reports the Laws denial, saying Laws said of the alleged sterilisation suggestion: “I did not say that and I have never said that.”

The Herald reports Laws said he had previously suggested “that it would be far better for this appalling underclass to be offered financial inducements not to have children”.

The Herald report adds Laws said he believes that most welfare beneficiaries are good parents.”Most beneficiaries regard the benefit as a temporary arrangement. But there are some who regard it as a lifestyle, who abuse it and their children. They were the target of my comments yesterday.”

How oh how did the Fairfucked Media NZ chain veer so far to the left of its readership? An how unfair and biased to Michael Laws, who as the Press admits, is entitled to an opinion.
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October 31, 2009 10:24am
Murray

I don’t know davinci. Someone tried to pass off Peter Davis as a husband.
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October 31, 2009 10:27am
Razork

I wonder if NZ’s Donald Trump will encourage his apprentices to start out [deleted by DPF]
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October 31, 2009 11:01am
cha

# Razork (277) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 11:01 am

I wonder if NZ’s Donald Trump will encourage his apprentices to start out xxxxxxx xxxxx?

I wonder how long before the above is deleted?.
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October 31, 2009 11:16am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-moral-ferocity-of-eating-animals/

“..It is a rare human act that is utterly reprehensible.

Some glimmer of grace, some hope for redemption shines through nearly all of our efforts.

And then .. Jonathan Safran Foer reminds us in his new book, Eating Animals ..

.. there is factory farming of living creatures.

Perhaps you have seen the film Food, Inc.

Maybe you have read the works of Michael Pollan.

You may have heard of confined veal calves pumped full of antibiotics … and collapsing in their own excrement; ..

.. or seen the video of bushels of baby chicks, alive and cheeping .. dumped into a grinder.

Almost certainly, you have heard something about the terrible ways that we now treat farm animals in America ..

.. and you didn’t like what you heard.

But if you still eat meat from factories — and, Foer reports, 99 percent of meat eaten in the U.S. is raised and/or processed in factory operations —

– you have not, by definition, absorbed the reality of factory farms.

If you truly understood the nightmarish brutality of what happens inside these windowless animal jails and abattoirs that dot the American ruralscape ..

.. you simply would not eat this meat.

Foer makes it clear that factory farming is the exceptional human activity that debases and destroys everything it touches:..

.. land, people, communities .. and most of all ..

.. the innocents at the nexus ..

.. animals..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 11:21am
mike tan

Isn’t it ironic that the left consider themselves to be on some kind of moral “high ground”?

Funny to me that they villify Laws for his legitimate suggestion. They seem to think that raising the idea of voluntary sterilisation is evil and heartless whilst they continue to support policy that allows generations of children to suffer at the hands of incompetent parenting. It is only the latter that is heartless/evil
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October 31, 2009 11:26am
Redbaiter

Media fakery on global warming- showing once again that objective reporting is a thing of the past and that modern day journalism is really an exercise in pushing propaganda for Progressives-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/earth-environment/article6896152.ece

Check the photos, and the cloud cover that is the same even when one pic is meant to be some 6 years older than the other.

Hat tip The Briefing Room

http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/10/journalists-bloggers-lobbyists-slammed-by-climate-scientists-for-distortions.html
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October 31, 2009 11:37am
Kris K

reid 9:34 am,

‘Dumb’ American criminals attempt robbery with ‘permanent marker pen disguises’
Two hapless robbers Green voters in America, Matthew McNelly and Joey Miller, have been arrested with the “worst disguises ever” after trying to hide their faces with permanent marker pen.

From the article:
“We’re very skilled investigators and the black faces gave them right away,” local police chief Jeff Cayler told CNN.

This really would be a good caption contest for DPF to run.
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October 31, 2009 11:42am
Inventory2

Phil – all I have to say in response to your piece is that I am now looking forward even more to the eye fillet steak which I purchased for dinner tonight 😉

Feel free to stick to your vegan lifestyle – it’s your choice. But PLEASE don’t try to give me the guilts over my choice.
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October 31, 2009 11:42am
philu

others reading it will have a different sort of visceral reaction..

what makes you different from them..?..d’yathink..?

and why are they having that reaction..?..d’yathink..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 11:44am
Kris K

davidp 9:25 am,

This article describes the situation in the UK in some detail. It focuses on the case of a woman and her children who were covertly followed by council workers for three weeks and who had her telephone records used as part of their investigation. An investigation in to terrorism? Errr, no. They thought she was trying to enroll her children in an out of zone school.

And this highlight a secondary issue:
How much resource will be ‘wasted’ on ‘surveilling’ such invasions of privacy?
I mean, “followed by council workers for three weeks and who had her telephone records used as part of their investigation”. This sort of crap will additionally send our country (more) broke.
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October 31, 2009 11:50am
mike tan

Philu, it is admirable that you decided that you are against animal consumption and have cut it out of your diet, i have long sympthised with animals who are farmed for consumption.

However, i think that it is plain wrong to impose your beliefs on others, or act like others are guilty for not following your footsteps. Human consumption of meat is natural, as evidenced by the animal food chain and by the many , many years that humans have been eating meat. Meat consumption has played a important part in our evolution as a species, this much cannot be denied.

It is of critical importance that we recognise each persons right to make their own decisions for themselves.

Simply tell people where you stand, and that you think it would be best if more people followed you, but leave it at that, no need for hatred or condescending behavior, that only damages your credibility thus hurts the cause that you are fighting for
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October 31, 2009 11:57am
Inventory2

Phillip Ure said “others reading it will have a different sort of visceral reaction..

what makes you different from them..?..d’yathink..?

and why are they having that reaction..?..d’yathink..?”

Don’t flatter yourself Phil. I suspect that most Kiwiblog readers will see all the full-stops, the bastardised grammar, and your name, and they will scroll down to the next post 😉
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October 31, 2009 12:00pm
Kris K

philu 11:21 am,

… /the-moral-ferocity-of-eating-animals/
“..It is a rare human act that is utterly reprehensible.
Some glimmer of grace, some hope for redemption shines through nearly all of our efforts.

… grace … redemption …
I sense a sermon coming on …

So in the spirit of a good sermon I open my Bible only to find …

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Yep, fire up the barbie – there’s some meat to be cooked!
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October 31, 2009 12:06pm
philu

that you are a ‘christian’..and support/even glee in..the sufferings of ‘gods’ creatures’..comes as no real surprise..

and all based on that fairytale-book you believe is word-perfect’..eh..?

tell me one thing..

what is it with those two different ‘creation-stories’..?

what’s yr ‘take’ on that..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 12:17pm
thedavincimode

“.. you simply would not eat this meat.”

we don’t you silly little feathered fuckwit.

We eat little fluffy lambs and happy moo cows that have been bouncing around in our lush green pastures, sniffing the daisies and chasing butterflies. Ah spring … and its glorious bounty …
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October 31, 2009 12:17pm
philu

psalms 17.213..

‘he bringeth forth grass for the cattle, and green herb for the service of man.

that he may bring food out of the earth. and wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make him a cheerful countenance, and bread to strengthen mans’ heart.

the trees of the lord also are full of sap..

wherein the birds make their nests: and the fir-trees are a dwelling for the stork.

the high hills are a refuge for the wild goats:

and so are the stony rocks for the conies’..

now..nothing about eating those animals there..eh..?

just ‘growing’..eh..?

no endorsement of factory-farms..?

i can dig out more..

so..stop trying to justify your sick/cruel addiction..

..through the teachings of your spiritual master..

eh..?

isn’t there a special corner in hell for those who take the lords name in vain..?

eh..?

think on..!..sinner..!

(and your god ‘cleanses’ the hells on earth that are slaughterhouses..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 12:27pm
Manolo

“I suspect that most Kiwiblog readers will see all the full-stops, the bastardised grammar, and your name, and they will scroll down to the next post..”

I also keep a bucket close to me. Even fast scrolling is not enough to avoid the vomit-inducing sensations the bludger’s postings trigger.
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October 31, 2009 12:31pm
philu

psalms 17.112..

‘thinkest thou that i will eat bulls’ flesh..and drink the blood of goats?’

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 12:34pm
Jack5

Like Philu I hate cruelty to animals, but don’t agree that humane slaughter so we can eat them is unacceptable cruelty.

If it is Philu, what do you say about lions and other carnivores eating herbivore animals such as deer and antelope? Would you set up legions of do-gooders to protect deer and antelope and feed the carnivores on tofu cubes?

What of fish, where there is food chain of consumption? Should we not be allowed to join the chain?

People who talk to plants may think they somehow have feelings, too, and shouldn’t be eaten? Where does that leave us?

There are quite good arguments for not eating meat on health grounds, as Chthoniid has spelled out in these threads. However, opposing meat eating on ethical grounds is as flaky as suggesting animals should have the same rights as humans. Taking these extreme animal-rights arguments as the obverse side of a coin, the reverse would be that humans should have the same rights as animals, i.e. kill and slaughter and eat each other at will with tooth-and-claw the only law.
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October 31, 2009 12:40pm
Kris K

… and drink the blood of goats …

That reminds me; can’t beat a good black pudding!
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October 31, 2009 12:41pm
philu

it’s my privilege to be your emetic..man-so-low..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 12:46pm
philu

so..kris k..

as with your anti-abortion/no state support for non-nuclear children/families..beliefs/contradictions..

you twist spiritual teachings..

to support/excuse/justify..

yr vile political beliefs..

and that you care not a jot..

for the torturing/suffering of other of gods’ creatures..

and in fact..feast on their flesh/blood..

and revel in these barbarities..

makes you one really sick fuck..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 12:51pm
Kris K

Jack5 12:40 pm,

However, opposing meat eating on ethical grounds is as flaky as suggesting animals should have the same rights as humans. Taking these extreme animal-rights arguments as the obverse side of a coin, the reverse would be that humans should have the same rights as animals, i.e. kill and slaughter and eat each other at will with tooth-and-claw the only law.

You highlight an important point, Jack:
Most Gaia worshippers do indeed elevate animals to the same level, and often higher, than Man. As I’m sure you’re aware, some even promote the idea of reducing the human population to 500 million.

And of course, after there is a new earth, and the pre-fall state, where there is no death, is re-established, there will be no consumption of meat once again.
I just hope there is a tree that produces ‘meat’ flavoured fruit.
Philu may get his wish eventually in this respect, until then though …
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October 31, 2009 12:54pm
Inventory2

Isn’t it interesting when those who profess not to believe in God or the Bible start to quote scriptures to prove their point. You’d better be careful delving into that “fairytale-book” Phil (your words) – the Holy Spirit can penetrate the hardest and most cynical of hearts. Then again, perhaps that wouldn’t be a bad thing …..
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October 31, 2009 1:00pm
Kris K

Actually Philu,

I did some engineering work at a meat works – beef slaughter chain redesign actually – and the way in which animals are treated is very humane and death is quick. They are electrically stunned, resulting in instant loss of consciousness, then their throats are slit resulting in quickly followed death. They never regain consciousness after the initial stun.

I mean, if I had to choose how I would die this would be pretty close to the top of the list. Certainly beats a slow death due to cancer for instance. Something most/all livestock will never have to face – lucky blighters.
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October 31, 2009 1:03pm
Kris K

IV2 1:00 pm,

Isn’t it interesting when those who profess not to believe in God or the Bible start to quote scriptures to prove their point.

I had exactly the same thought – you beat me to it.
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October 31, 2009 1:09pm
thedavincimode

“he bringeth forth … green herb for the service of man”

I2, this was the bit that attracted his interest. You see, he’s just fulfilling God’s mission.

“wherein the birds make their nests: and the fir-trees are a dwelling for the stork.”

Hmmm – seems the stork got a special mention but nothing about little demented magpies.
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October 31, 2009 1:21pm
nickb

Well, what a sad few days for the right in New Zealand.
First we have the frankly shocking news about our projected deficit and government debts by 2050, while at the same time knowing that no one in Parliament has the political courage or conviction to do anything about it (our own PM has refused to make any alterations to Super, even though the eligibility age has been unchaged for decades).

Then we have the news that the National and Act parties, in all their “small government”, “personal freedoms” glory have passed a law enabling the police to take a DNA sample before a person is even charged with a crime. A lovely piece of legislation to go with the Proceeds of Crime Act, which for all intents and purposes reverses the onus of proof. As the poster says- “John Key, your Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill is a real coup”.

Then, we have Mr Perk-Buster himself, the champion of parliamentary intergrity and expenses transparency, catch a serious case of “entileitis”: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10606478

Now of course what Hide has done is legal, but some of him look to him and his party as one of the last remaining hopes in Parliament for real reform, for reigning in government spending, for promoting intergrity and openness in government. Now he tells us he is “entitled” to taxpayer holidays, sure it is legal and sure it is normal but from someone who has taken him upon himself to expose rorts, it is extremely hypocritical and a very dodgy look. It complements nicely the use of taxpayer funds to print Sir Roger’s book, another startling case of entitleitis from a supposed free markerteer.

So, to come to my point after this ramble, is there anyone out there, anyone within or outside Parliament who has the influence, anyone at all who is going to stand up and say enough is enough? Enough of the high tax, high regulation, nanny state bullshit? Enough of giving criminals more rights than victims, yet be so stretched and under-resourced and incompetent in law enforcement that civil liberties are trampled upon in the name of crime fighting?

Didn’t think so.
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October 31, 2009 1:21pm
reid

It’s interesting to have observed phil on this issue and interpolate his approach for it seems to personify the approach most lefties take when analysing anything.

Firstly, he’s a fanatic. He can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.

Secondly, he’s outrageously self-righteous. He’s obviously decided in his own mind that his position is the only correct one and he won’t tolerate dissent in any way.

Thirdly, he selectively chooses his material. As with all fanatics especially the self-righteous ones, he seems incapable of objectively reading quality material outlining both sides of the story with an open mind. Even when he’s attempting to bring in other, non-fanatical sources: e.g. The Bible; he won’t quote from it those passages that approve a dissenting position: e.g. you can eat anything except fish without scales and animals without a cloven hoof that doesn’t chew the cud.

Fourthly he demonises anyone who isn’t entirely 100% with him in every way. The other day for example I think he made a comment about not being enough to be a vegetarian, you had to be a vegan as well. (I’m not sure because like many I’ve taken to skimming phil.)

I’m sure there are other points but you get the idea. This is precisely what global warmers do as well. Man I’d hate to be a lefty, they’re so confused.
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October 31, 2009 1:24pm
philu

“..I had exactly the same thought – you beat me to it…”

as slippery as a fucken eel..aren’t you..

as you well know..you trotted out scripture to support yr flesh/fat/blood addictions..

i counter-quoted..

but i guess you are also just too thick to read/understand the subtext..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 1:25pm
philu

reid said:

“..As with all fanatics especially the self-righteous ones, he seems incapable of objectively reading quality material outlining both sides of the story with an open mind..”

where is it..?

and..

“..e.g. you can eat anything except fish without scales and animals without a cloven hoof that doesn’t chew the cud..”

hilarious how these ‘believers’ say these fantasy-book-based things with such a straight face..eh..?

and where exactly is that quote found..?

or are you just making things up again/still..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 1:32pm
nickb

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/3018439/Somali-pirates-demand-US-7m-ransom-for-British-couple

1st thought: Why the fuck would anyone with a brain sail their yacht around the Somalian coast?

2nd thought: Send the US Marines or British SAS in…like here http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/2335349/Somali-pirates-seize-two-more-ships
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October 31, 2009 1:43pm
getstaffed

Speaking of making shit up phil, how are your getting on closing that big commercial model deal? (oh, and explaining the ‘top 1%’ bit?)

for the last four and a half years..every day.(early morning start…i have compiled a news aggregator service…whoar.co.nz

..(that yesterday..was ranked in the top 1% of global blogs..by technorati…

..and i have been approached by some americans putting together a big commercial model news/opinion site in america..

..aimed at knocking off huffington post..

..i will own part of that…and hope/expect to make a reasonable..to shit-load of money from that…

and i am about to start cashing in on the high global rankigs for whoar…

Emphasis mine. This comment was comedy gold. Truely, you can’t buy humour like that. And it’s all the more funny beacuse phil expected readers to believe him.
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October 31, 2009 1:53pm
reid

Phil, you should know by now I don’t make things up concerning the Bible. I may be mistaken but I don’t lie about it.

Lev 11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, [and] cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
Lev 11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: [as] the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you.
Lev 11:5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you.
Lev 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you.
Lev 11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you.
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October 31, 2009 2:13pm
Kris K

but i guess you are also just too thick to read/understand the subtext..eh..?

Did you guys realise that the Bible has “subtext”?
Well I never.
In the future I’ll have to rely on Philu’s superior wisdom in this regard when reading the Bible.
Or should I listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit?

Mmmm … a great dilemma confronts me.
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October 31, 2009 2:13pm
reid

Oh sorry phil, forgot the fish bits:

Lev 11:9 These shall ye eat of all that [are] in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
Lev 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:
Lev 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that [shall be] an abomination unto you.
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October 31, 2009 2:18pm
philu

you-just-don’t -‘get it’..

you don’t even ‘get’ what the subtext was about..

let alone identifying it..?

a ‘simple-soul’..are you..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 2:21pm
philu

reid..i’m not gonna play ‘bat a bible-quote’ with you..

the (obvious) point being that all quotes are bullshit..

as none of them are first-hand..

they are all stories..

written hundreds of years after supposed events/’quotes’..

and as the many many schisims in christianity know/show….

different interpretations of these old stories..abound..

each claiming to be ‘the true one’..

y’know..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 2:26pm
Luc Hansen

The highly irreverent atheist, Islamophobe and racist Pat Condell returned to Radio Live today just before 2.00pm. The host, Graeme Hill, made repeated pleas for Brian Tamaki to be alerted to the broadcast. I hope the message got through. You can listen to it over the internet here

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio/tabid/109/Default.aspx

Just choose the 00:45 time slot – he came on about 00:50 Just some easy listening Saturday fun.

And check out Pat’s site here http://www.patcondell.net/

Oh, and why do I say he is racist? He’s a “One Law For All” man. Sorry guys, but the concept is inherently white supremacist, in my opinion, of course 😉
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October 31, 2009 2:31pm
reid

So phil, first you quoted the Bible in support of your argument, complete with allegations of sub-text and then when you receive sourced quotations that directly contradict your argument you turn around and say that all quotes are bullshit? I see.

“different interpretations of these old stories..abound..”

Yes but phil those quotes I gave you are quotes, not interpretations. They’re from the KJV but any translation says exactly the same thing. So, no interpretation required. Not open to it, in any way. Not controversial, perfectly understandable. The only person allegedly confused about them appears to be you.
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October 31, 2009 2:35pm
getstaffed

“For God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib” – The Message Bible. For anyone who’s never read a Bible, get a copy of The Message. Very cool, very understandable.. but not something theologians will enjoy 🙂
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October 31, 2009 2:40pm
Inventory2

Amen to that Brother Getstaffed, amen to that.
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October 31, 2009 2:45pm
Luc Hansen

Plenty of Bible quotes here http://www.evilbible.com/

I believe this one is a favourite of Brian Tamaki:

“Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! “But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’ “You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the LORD Almighty, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not shrivel before they are ripe,” says the LORD Almighty. (Malachi 3:8-11 NLT)

(Doesn’t it seem really stupid that an all-powerful God claims he can bring food and grapes to the masses but he can’t even feed himself?)
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October 31, 2009 3:02pm
thedavincimode

“reid..i’m not gonna play ‘bat a bible-quote’ with you..

the (obvious) point being that all quotes are bullshit..”

Priceless. Like a dog chasing its tail. That second line might come back to haunt him … again … and again …
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October 31, 2009 3:05pm
mike tan

[url=”God Bless George Carlin”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/url]
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October 31, 2009 3:07pm
reid

“That second line might come back to haunt him … again … and again …”

Pro 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, [so] a fool returneth to his folly

Luc, if you’re serious about understanding the best-selling book of all time, then http://www.blueletterbible.org/ is one of the better ones. Of course, you haven’t indicated that so far, but just in case…
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October 31, 2009 3:17pm
thedavincimode

It might be a best seller Reid, but I don’t think its consistently tops in the metaphor department although in the present case this one some how seems appropriate.

Just been doing some high-powered research (peer reviewed of course Luc)

“The European Magpie is unique from other species due to its pied plumage … as well as its loud chatter …

… the Magpie usually walks, but it can also hop quickly sideways with wings slightly opened …

The Magpie and the rest of its family are fond of bright objects …

The Magpie will … also eat acorns, grain and other vegetable substances …

Magpies are territorial and stay in their territory all year …

Generally speaking, the bird is associated with unhappiness and trouble. This may be because of its well known tendency to “steal” shiny objects, as well as its harsh, chittering call …

Upon seeing a lone magpie one should repeat the words “I defy thee” seven times.”

How spooky is this! That last one is interesting. My personal preference in terms of response would always be to introduce the magpie to Mr Mossman.
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October 31, 2009 4:01pm
jabba

I’m really nervous .. the Big Harbour are about the defend their Meads Cup title v Mid Canturbury
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October 31, 2009 4:07pm
Inventory2

@ Luc Hansen (3.02pm) – that quote is a favourite of almost all “prosperity gospel” preachers, not just Tamaki.
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October 31, 2009 4:08pm
jabba

fk me .. the refs a cheat .. what was wrong with that tackle?
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October 31, 2009 4:10pm
Inventory2

jabba – no nerves in the Inventory whare – the W(h)anganui boys will prevail, but none of the credit will go to the Mad Mayor!
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October 31, 2009 4:14pm
labrator

@getstaffed If philu is doing commercial work for the purpose of sale/income, I thought that made you ineligible for the dole? Otherwise all of the grass root entrepreneurs in NZ could just sit on the dole trying to get ideas off of the ground. Am I mistaken?
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October 31, 2009 4:16pm
jabba

shit 13 nil down
look, my $’s are down so my normal Sat night feed has gone from eye fillet to scotch fillet but when cooked right the extra fat really does add flavor. Don’t feel like beer, been working at my boy’s house again on the freaking hedge .. cuts all over my arms.
So, it’s rum and coke time .. mmmmmmmmmmmm .. what you doing philu?
jabba(Ihaveaeatingdrinkingissue.co.nz)
gee .. just saw Sir Colin at the game
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October 31, 2009 4:41pm
Luc Hansen

Thanks for the concern, reid, but since I think the whole religion kick is just a ginormous and tragic waste of time and energy, so I’ll give it miss.

Inventory – I’m not surprised, and I wouldn’t know what they like to preach because I stay well out of their orbit!
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October 31, 2009 5:00pm
getstaffed

@labrator – Quite so I should have thought… but it’s a bit hard to prove unless there’s actual cashflow to measure. And far from being a grass roots entrepreneur, I’d say the bludger in question is probably entitely rooted by grass 🙂
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October 31, 2009 5:06pm
Steve

Strange afternoon. The devil dodgers raving and the meat eaters raving.
I too bought eye fillet, just gonna kick the barbie in the guts and drop a bit of Banrock Station White Shiraz.
I know, cheap shit, but I like it before, with and after my steak. Then we will have some beers.
jabba(Ihaveaeatingdrinkingissue.co.nz)
Me too. Eat more veges phool.
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October 31, 2009 5:07pm
Inventory2

You bewdy – the mighty W(h)anganui boys hit the lead, 14-13, and look to be finishing stronger. They’re not being helped by a dreadfully lop-sided penalty count though.
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October 31, 2009 5:21pm
Inventory2

Steve – Phil is welcome to the leftovers of our salad. He obviously won’t want the steak, and being eye fillet, there’ll be no waste, and he probably won’t want any of the beer-battered steak fries. Sheesh, vegans get the short stick, don’t they?
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October 31, 2009 5:24pm
Steve

IV2, they sure do!!
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October 31, 2009 5:37pm
philu

mmm!!..frying too..!

you are quite the health freak..

have you always laughed in the face of inevitability..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 31, 2009 5:37pm
reid

“Thanks for the concern, reid, but since I think the whole religion kick is just a ginormous and tragic waste of time and energy, so I’ll give it miss.”

Yes I could see awhile ago you’ve already made up your mind at this point in your life Luc.

Shame really, you’ve got a good mind, you could have been useful. Not to any particular religion of course, who cares about them, but as a force for good in the name of G-d, you’ve got unlimited potential.

Just be aware, some think it’s enough to be a good person. They’re wrong. I won’t explain that, you can research it if you want to.
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October 31, 2009 5:45pm
Steve

Phool, it’s only your brain that is frying. Say thank you to the taxpayers for financing you. We just love being your drug supplier.
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October 31, 2009 6:04pm
Tauhei Notts

Forget Tuesday’s Melbourne Cup.
The Victoria Derby has a history stretching back six years before the first Melbourne Cup.
So it was of interest that Monaco Consul was the first New Zealand trained winner of that race in 38 years.
And who owns Monaco Consul? None other than the infamous Owen Glenn.
And what was the only horse in the race trained by the siblings of a Labour Party M.P.?
You got it again. Monaco Consul.
Unbelievable fluke . Give the man consular status.
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October 31, 2009 6:13pm
getstaffed

From Stuff: EU agrees on climate deal
Extract:

An EU statement said the member states had agreed developing nations would need about 100 billion euros (89 billion pounds) each year by 2020 to tackle climate change.

Of that sum, about 22-50 billion euros would have to come from public funds, as opposed to industry — and the EU would put up about one quarter of that sum.

The 22-50 billion euro from ‘public funds’ would be from taxes (on industry and private consumption). The EU putting up ‘about a quarter of that sum’ would be from taxes (on industry and private consumption).

So developed nations will be taxed to put developing nations in a position of dependence on what amounts to global welfare. And all of this is based on shonky science and excellent marketing which is designed to make individuals feel ever so slightly guilty about discarding plastic bags, but guilty enough just to accept the taxation and move on.

I reject the notion that global wealth transfer and whole-nation welfare dependency is something to aspire to.

The global warming emperor is naked and getting colder (as the physical world cools, and along with it, the appetite for this engineered nonsense)
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October 31, 2009 6:38pm
MikeNZ

LUC – you should watch the george carlin vid that mike tan posted, I think you’ll like it.
though not as good as your mate pat condrell.

reid – it’s pearls before swine mate, you’re supposed to be looking for the man of peace, not using a shotgun on the herd.
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October 31, 2009 6:56pm
MikeNZ

Hope John Keys staff have read this.
can you imagine WCC or MOE sending their staff out to hassle peopleasthis woman was..

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/world/europe/25surveillance.html?_r=3
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October 31, 2009 6:59pm
Inventory2

Heartened by Wanganui’s magnificent victory in the Meads Cup final, Keeping Stock has made a brief return from blogging retirement…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/10/game-of-two-halves.html
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October 31, 2009 7:03pm
jabba

I2 .. I just had an orgasm .. champs again .. got a couple of jerseys to choose from to wear to work tomorrow .. shit hot.
tauhei .. does Owen own it or was it named after him .. I don’t know BUT I wonder if Trevor put a lazy $5 on it?
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October 31, 2009 8:07pm
jabba

gee the stags are doing well v Wgtn
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October 31, 2009 8:08pm
Tauhei Notts

Jabba,
The N.Z. Thoroughbred Racing Inc site shows the owners of Monaco Consul to be GG Syndicate Ltd and O.G. Glenn. I think, but am unsure, that the GG Syndicate Ltd company is owned by Mr Gerard Peterson, formerly, I think, of The Warehouse Ltd fame.
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October 31, 2009 8:47pm
Inventory2

jabba said “I2 .. I just had an orgasm .. ”

Too much information mate; far too much information!
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October 31, 2009 9:01pm
jabba

sorry I2 .. I get my jolly’s where I can.
Tauhei .. .. I will put a lazy $5 on Monaco Consul just for laughs
here we go boyz .. the game is about to start .. I have us winning about 42 – 24
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October 31, 2009 9:36pm
Hurf Durf

The militant vegans have become increasingly noisy in the last year. Is it because of the realisation that their precious “Gween New Deal” was a load of horseshit?

He’s a “One Law For All” man. Sorry guys, but the concept is inherently white supremacist, in my opinion, of course

Would it be “inherently white supremacist” for a legal system to be applied uniformly in an Asian country such as Singapore? Try and engage that pink lump in your head before you spew your guilt and self-hatred everywhere.
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October 31, 2009 9:50pm
Luc Hansen

There is certainly not “one law for all” in mainland China, with racist campaigns against Tibetans, Mongolians and Uighers.

However, Pat Condell is English, and I was intending the term to be viewed in the context of post-colonialism and the relatively new phenonomen of large scale Oriental emigration to western countries. Many, if not most, are fleeing the deleterious effects of western militancy: this is certainly a topic worth exploring further.

The fact is that in many nations subjected to permanent western colonisation, the indigenous people are marginalised and discriminated against. To argue against that is simply to reinforce the entirely reasonable impression, on the evidence of many of your posts, that you are not a person one can engage in rational debate.

And the fact is that programmes (widely misnamed as “laws”in the language of the far right) aiming at redressing, as far as humanly possible, those past and present wrongs, are necessary to ensure an inclusive society with genuinely equal opportunity.

It’s actually less to do with guilt, more to do with maximising the potential of all our citizens.

Those here who undoubtedly ranted on against and forced the closing down of “Closing the Gaps” policies are simply continuing the racist attitudes of our early settlers.

Go the Blacks! (as in ALL Blacks) 😉
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October 31, 2009 11:07pm
mike tan

Luc Hansen, whilst i conceed that there are many negative aspects to colonisation, i note that there are also positives, i trust you are not naive enough to not understand what im talking about here

Sacrificing economical development and capping the rate at which we move into the future, in the means of rectifying a perceived wrong commited in our history, a perceived wrong which the people of today had no influence over, is morally wrong.

Simply put, by spreading the wealth around, we wont have the level of innovation that we enjoy today, are you an advocate of discarding years of evolution and progess and returning to a primitive, stone aged society?
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October 31, 2009 11:21pm
Hurf Durf

Did I say China? And since when have the Han Chinese been white or white supremacist? You’re not doing very well at this.

I intend my posts to be seen in the context of your overwhelming butthurt and not some academic theory. When you consider your idea of “rational debate” is whining about Jooooooz and post-neo-colonial-imperialism and Western militancy and terms worthy only of a fifty year old sociology thesis that should have been pulped long ago and what not, arguing with you would be like trying to convince a dog not to lick its own balls.
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November 1, 2009 12:04am
Luc Hansen

Mike, you create a false dilemma fallacy.

It’s true we, the descendants of colonialists, had no part in the colonisation, but the simple fact is that we have largely carried on the attitude of our forefathers and this is reflected in the sad social indicators of Maori today.

Empowering Maori and economic progress are not mutually exclusive and the former would, in fact, be advantageous.
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November 1, 2009 12:13am
Luc Hansen

Hurf Durf (796) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 12:04 am

Would it be “inherently white supremacist” for a legal system to be applied uniformly in an Asian country such as Singapore?

No. OK? You are off on your little distracting tangents that you love so well. Bear in mind, of course, that Singapore was once victim of white supremacy and faced a long and violent struggle to break those shackles. Luckily for them, they did not end up a minority in their own land, unlike our Maori and Australian Aborigines.

The Han Chinese are not white, obviously, but they are colonialists, and colonialism is driven by supremacism.

Let’s we get back to the New Zealand context I was intending.
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November 1, 2009 12:31am
mike tan

Luc, do you seriously think that the right is against empowering Maori?

The success of the Maori people is integral to the success of New Zealand, i can assure you that all of us want nothing more than to see a majority of the Maori living successful lifestyles.

The difference between us is that we recognise that providing them generous welfare support in exchange for votes is the direct source of oppression that they suffer.

I suggest you research “welfare trap”
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November 1, 2009 12:33am
Luc Hansen

Mike, there you go again. Where did I mention welfare? You need to stop projecting your pet hates onto others and start asking questions for information instead.

For example, as I have said somewhere on this site just yesterday, lift the minimum wage and put extra resources into educating the non-achievers in our schools.

We should also drop Working for Families, which is essentially a wage subsidy for businesses and welfare for the middle class.

This will concentrate minds on the problem of low wages and free up resources for those in greater need. But programmes, Mike, not welfare.
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November 1, 2009 12:42am
Hurf Durf

Victim? You are aware that Singapore is one of the most economically developed countries in the world with a plurality population? Aren’t you? That there is no thing as a simply ethnic Singaporean? Buggeration, you really are obsessed with your own self-righteousness. You’re a clown and a joke.

You just don’t like the Han because they threw off Communism and adopted the free market. If they were still starving to death and melting down their spoons in their back gardens you’d say they were there as part of a anti-Western imperialism mission like you do with Venezuela. Are you Keith Locke?
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November 1, 2009 12:43am
mike tan

I stand by my quote that people who abuse the welfare system are degenerates, however i emphasise this is exclusive of those who are genuinely trapped into the welfare cycle by the selfish aspirations of power hungry communists/socialists
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November 1, 2009 12:44am
mike tan

Luc, where does the money for all these programmes come from?

These programmes you speak of are thinly-veiled welfare schemes, you can trust that i am not that naive
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November 1, 2009 12:49am
Luc Hansen

Hurf, there you go again, just like Mike, off on a tangent. It’s interesting that you say there is no such thing as a Singaporean.

Tell that to the people who have lived there since god only knows when, but it’s written history dates back to 300 CE.

You confuse the concept of a nation-state with indigeneity. State names change, and the population mix changes over time, too, but there is nearly always a lasting link to indigenous peoples unless, of course, they have been wiped out. We Europeans have been pretty good at that!

The trouble with your style of debate is that it leads to the use of weasel words to cover all bases. Stop distorting and distracting. Debate the issue of one law for all in New Zealand.

Or shut the fuck up.
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November 1, 2009 1:00am
Luc Hansen

Ah, now we approach the ideological chasm.

According to you, free state education is welfare.

Yes?
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November 1, 2009 1:06am
Hurf Durf

Better yet, why not be coherent and cohesive for a change, instead of spewing out insensical and stupid babble that doesn’t even matched what I’ve written?

Like I said, like convincing a dog not to lick its own balls.
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November 1, 2009 1:09am
mike tan

I am glad that you mention education, because it is an example of a system that has been exploited by the state

Yes i do consider state run education to be a form of welfare, however, unlike the welfare you provide to retain your voterbase, i presume it is a well-meaning form of welfare genuinely intended to benefit those that are most precious to us. It is unfortunate that it fails our children miserably.

It has failed our children for far too long, there is no reward for being a talented, effective teacher, and as a result the whole system is corrupted by individuals not intelligent enough to mentor the children of the future.

I am a firm believer in privatization of the education system
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November 1, 2009 1:16am
Luc Hansen

Hurf, I can’t match what you write. It’s almost indecipherable and invariably is just a foul mouthed ad hominem.

And wtf is insensical?

See what I mean?
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November 1, 2009 1:18am
Hurf Durf

Better that than the circular logic you employ all the damn time, Puke.

And yes, I admit that I got the wrong tense on the word “match” and insensical should have been nonsensical, but you know what? It’s 1am, way past closing time, so kindly dial 0800 SUKMYBALLS for a complaint form.
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November 1, 2009 1:26am
Luc Hansen

Mike

It’s nice to conduct a civilised debate. There certainly are no absolutes in this kind of discussion. I suggest you look at this document:

http://www.oecd.org/els/social/childwellbeing

It’s a one page summary. Main conclusions are that our kids are relatively poor within the OECD framework, but our kids achieve well beyond the actual per capita spend. We consistently outrank the US for example, probably the most highly privatised system in the west.

We have a problem in that the gap between achievers and non-achievers is higher than the three nations performing better than us, and the answer to this is more resources directed to those low achievers.

The fact is that Kiwis largely accept the state schooling model, so I just don’t see much point in debating it.
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November 1, 2009 1:38am

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