Kiwi Muslims

October 24th, 2009 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

The Dom Post reports:

It’s possible to be Kiwi, Muslim and an All Black fan, says MICHAEL FOX, but it’s not always an easy road.

Young Muslims in have impressed their elders by integrating well through adopting a laid-back Kiwi attitude, supporting the All Blacks and embracing the local culture.

And integration over isolation is the key, in my opinion. Integration does not mean assimilation where everyone is the same, in some Borg like collective. The diversity of races, cultures and religions in New Zealand is a great thing, with integration and tolerance for others being the key.

As Muslims gather in Auckland this weekend for their first national convention, they will be reflecting on why young followers have avoided problems such as violent crime associated with disenfranchised youth in other countries.

Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand president Anwar-ul Ghani called the convention a hui.

“Our community is now getting quite a reasonable size and really once in a year we need to start to have a hui like this to reflect on things and get the grassroots involved.

“We need to strengthen our Islamic belief and way of life and yet identify ourselves as Kiwi Muslims.”

Even just little things such as calling their convention a hui, is quite cool – it is reflecting that Kiwi side.

There are now almost 50,000 Muslims in New Zealand.

Dr Ghani says young Muslims are leading the way in integration. He believes they are “Kiwianised”, with as much interest in New Zealand’s popular culture as their own.

He says this is in marked contrast with European countries where youths have felt like outsiders and rebelledthrough crime, riots and terrorism.

“I won’t say that it is not an issue [in New Zealand] but it is certainly less of an issue. We’re finding that the transition is reasonably smooth.”

I think in New Zealand we are remarkably blessed that the extremism and isolationist you get in the UK, much of Europe and even Australia is very rare here.

I think part of the credit goes to the Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand themselves. While obviously I have different views on issues, they have always struck me as taking their leadership position responsibily. And the fact that they are led by an accountant with NZ Post, rather than a DVD distributing preacher, is helpful.

She said Muslims could remain strong in their faith while also identifying themselves as New Zealanders. “When people ask me where I’m from I don’t have any answer to them apart from New Zealand, although I don’t look like a typical Kiwi. I’m definitely Muslim and I’m definitely a New Zealander.”

Wellington’s Aneesa Adam, 27, who grew up in New Zealand with her Fiji Indian parents, said a clash between faith and Kiwi values occasionally posed problems. “As a teenager at times things were a little bit difficult, particularly with things like drinking. I basically had to choose who my friends were.”

Ms Adam didn’t wear a headscarf until she started university because she was self-conscious.

“As a teenager I was always too shy. As I got older it just became easier and I decided that I was ready to wear it.

“As soon as people see you wearing a scarf there’s immediately a barrier and an idea that they have about you. For younger people I think it’s harder, but as an adult it’s very easy and people are very good about it.”

She said Muslims could remain strong in their faith while also identifying themselves as New Zealanders. “When people ask me where I’m from I don’t have any answer to them apart from New Zealand, although I don’t look like a typical Kiwi. I’m definitely Muslim and I’m definitely a New Zealander.”

One of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I am intolerant of is intolerance. I’m not sure there is such a thing as a typical Kiwi, but I think diversity is a great thing.

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55 Responses to “Kiwi Muslims”

  1. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    Unfortunately I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the reason we have not Islamic violence here is not because we are such a nice place, but because of numbers. 50,000 out of 4.5 million is just over 1%. There was no Islamic violence in England when there was 1% either. Or France, or Italy, Or Holland, Or Sweden, Or Denmark, or Norway. When that number gets to 5-10%, watch out.

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  2. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    *watches, popcorn at the ready.*

    This is gonna be good!

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  3. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    I was about to say that, too Brian

    Growing up in Melbourne in the 60’s and 70’s, Lebanese, for example, were predominant in the community and business, and well respected. But the inflow of post 1980 Lebs has changed both the perceptiona nd the reality.

    Another aspect keeping Muslims relaitvely quiet in NZ is the broad ethnic mix, and they have enough to do fighting amongst themselves. See, for example, the strains in recent years over the control of the Christchurch mosque as more recent arrivals from the ME and Africa attempted to wrest control from the Fijian/Indian incumbents.

    The more people from poor and strife torn countries that arrive, the more likely there is to be violence brought with them.

    Keep New Zealand for the whiteman.

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  4. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    “the extremism and isolationist you get in the UK, much of Europe and even Australia is very rare here”

    Not amongst the loony fringe of your readers David, as the post above shows

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  5. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Hey hedgehog, play the ball, not the man. Got a counter argument, or are you all piss and wind?

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  6. nickb (3,686 comments) says:

    Socialist and a racist, wow haven’t sen that one before.

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  7. CircusMind (23 comments) says:

    Ignore him, Billy! Kia kaha!

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  8. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Brian
    I think you are spot on. have you read patrick Sookhdeo’s Faith, Power and territory for the UK experience or his Global Jihad (though that is more towards academics INT and Govt policy wonks)?.

    One thing that has always puzzled me is Helen Clark has never listed the same terror orgs as OZ has, on top of the UN (crap bullshit) list in 9 yrs.
    It almost’s seemed that the NZPolice bod who’s job it was was sleeping on the job.
    I don’t think that is the case as I think SIS, MILINT, NZPOLICE and GCHQ are all very involved.
    It appears John Key hasn’t added any orgs either in the past year.
    This means some people can’t get into OZ but can here which is puzzleing as one would think we would mesh our needs in this area.
    methinks we are a watching post as they transit through us perhaps?

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  9. EverlastingFire (286 comments) says:

    The Aotearoa Maori Muslim Association seems to be an interesting group.

    From wikipedia (so take from it what you please) – “the most influential Maori Muslim movement, has roots in the Hawkes Bay province. They view Tino Rangitiratanga as a form of jihad and that Islam is the perfect vehicle for Maori nationalism. Most Maori converts are being drawn to the faith through anti-Pakeha sentiment and a fascination with al Qaeda and the radical chic of Black Muslim icons.”

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  10. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    And we only have 200 F/T SIS bods!

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  11. John Cawston (949 comments) says:

    Good advice for NZ Muslims and other NZers would be “Trust, but verify”.

    Anyway we’ll know we are about to have a problem if the Race Relations Conciliator starts handing out certificates to Muslims.

    JC

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  12. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Billy Boy, do you think that I would bother taking seriously anyone who posted “Keep New Zealand for the whiteman.”

    Go slither back under that rock you call home loser.

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  13. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Go slither back under that rock you call home loser.”

    That’s funny Sonik, seeing as Billy actually lives under the same rock in the same stinking fetid Progressive swamp that you do.

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  14. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    So hedgehog, you ARE all piss and wind. No counter argument. Just vicious lies and slander.

    Guess you are in bed with Bernard Hickey, salivating at the prospect of filling NZ up with the dregs of China.

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  15. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Socialist and a racist, wow haven’t sen that one before.”

    You must have been born quite recently. Socialists, starting with Karl Marx who is sometimes called the father of genocide, have always been the most racist of all.

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  16. starboard (2,523 comments) says:

    Muslim..Chinese…Aussie…Pom..etc etc..come on in no worries…but the minute they the break the law ( murder , robbery , serious assault etc , no appeals ) they are deported back to their homeland , no if’s no but’s..and get ‘em to sign an agreement as part of their Immigration application into NZ. You wana come here..you play by are rules.

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  17. Viking2 (11,420 comments) says:

    There was a song that went;
    “Never smile at a Crocodile,
    don’t be taken in by his welcome grin,
    he’s imaging how well you’ll fit within his skin”

    Kinda describes the issue in context looking at the performance elsewhere.

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  18. CircusMind (23 comments) says:

    I should make a more serious comment. It’s a shame that the Right’s ideological cohesion, it’s *purity*, if you will, is undermined by the inclusion of neofacist sorts under the broad moniker of ‘the Right’. One would think that as long as the population of the country were hard-working, resourceful and obedient to the law, the proportions of their skin colours or cultures would not matter. Would you rather have a group of hard-working, professional Muslims immigrate here than a lot of poor, dependent, violent but white Brits? Is your criterion for merit skin colour alone? Or do work-ethic, intelligence, and lawfulness matter? If they do, then there’s no reason to keep “New Zealand for the whiteman”. If skin colour is the criterion of merit, you’re going to have a lot of problems maintaining that belief consistently in the real world.

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  19. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    I’m with Brian Smaller, MikeNZ, and, surprisingly, billyborker at 12:17 pm (apart from the “Keep New Zealand for the whiteman” comment),

    I’ve said this before; (and like Brian) once Muslim numbers reach ‘critical mass’ then I think the “smiling crocodile” may indeed show his real teeth.

    If we don’t learn from history regarding Islamic immigration in other western nations, then we’re doomed to repeat their mistakes, and will end up with the same end result; that being the push for Sharia law and increasing demands for sensitivity towards all things Muslim.

    We really do need to wake up!

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  20. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Thanks, KK, but there is a fundamental difference between us.

    I fear the loss of heritage and freedom, while you are more concerned that your religion would lose out. I am sure, given the choice, you would plump for your god’s laws over Man’s Laws everytime. It’snot just Muslims that scare me, its any religious nutbar friutloop, to paraphrase d4j.

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  21. tvb (4,366 comments) says:

    It is a very cool kiwi attitude to adopt. BUT keep their numbers small.

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  22. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    One thing that scares me billy for it’s evidence the Slanderer and Deceiver aka Satan is alive and well, is the increasingly common and profoundly ignorant mis-characterisation of all believers as “religious nutbar fruitloops.”

    It doesn’t worry me, for like all believers, I have no fear of my own spiritual fate regardless of what the world throws at me. However it scares me because people who hold that attitude or even anything that remotely reassembles it, create a block toward true understanding. It’s not enough to know what Muslims do, you need to understand why they do it. If you don’t understand that accurately, then you become just another useful idiot beholden to propaganda. And it’s hard to reach an accurate understanding if all you ever think about is how nutty they are.

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  23. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    O come on Reid, this is the 21st century, god is dead and satan a fairytale.

    I understand why muslims do as they do, just as I understand why jews continue illegal settlements, why the IRA has never quite gone away, and why even after all the light cast in the shadows, somewhere, right now, a little boy is being buggered by a catholic priest.

    Where is your gad and your satan?

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  24. backster (2,152 comments) says:

    CIRCUS…You sound like an inverted racist to me and your profiling is askew as well. Most Christian immigrants from Western Countries are hard working and industrious while most of the Muslim refugees and immigrants dwell on Welfare producing babies in their image annually,and bring out as many of their rellies as they can, to get the free money our stupid governments dosh out…..Incidentally if their spokepeople are serious do the sing the National Anthem, toast the Queen, and salute our flag before they start their hui?

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  25. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    backtser, I don’t sing the natioanl anthem, I don’t salute the flag and I do not toast the queen. Got a problem with that?

    And I think you’ll find, mots immigrants from western countires are nominal christians, just like most of the NZ population. How many will be in your church tomorrow?

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  26. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “Where is your [G-d] and your satan?”

    Same place they’ve always been, billy. Right here. The fact you don’t recognise them doesn’t make them illusory, despite your protestations to the contrary on other previous threads. And what’s the 21st century got to do with it? Surely you’re not suggesting the field of science is capable of understanding spiritual realms? If so, your ignorance is worse than I thought.

    Was your 4:01 comment in general including about the little boy an oblique reference to the question about why does evil exist? If so, that just illustrates my point. If you can’t understand that, you understand nothing about the subject of faith. Note that faith does not equal mankind’s religious interpretation, BTW.

    Anyway, let’s not divert into those areas, you say you understand why Muslims do what they do. So what is your interpretation of that, billy?

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  27. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Billy
    I don’t agree with your first part but do with the 2nd part.

    With Muslims it’s not colour as Islam isn’t any one colour just as Christianity isn’t (there are more Christians in India than here), it just seems that way with Muslims at present because of the refugees and immigrants we are taking in.

    The reality is that every Muslim who prays and contributes at the Mosque towards Dawa, does so because in their world the greatest beauty is living under Sharia in worship to Allah.
    Unless people understand that fact and the mindset and heart value that underscores it, they won’t see the threat.
    Muslims were only 30,000 a year or so ago so I’d like to see the Internal Affairs figures to have a better handle on it.

    In answer to someone’s comment “what would you prefer”?
    There are a ton of Christians who are refugees in the world and I wouldn’t mind the entrepreneurial ones of those coming here instead of Muslims.

    I’d love to know the no’s coming into NZ and what religions they are as I suspect that the UN refugees orgs move a disproportionate no of Muslims than other faiths to Western countries.
    I’m happy to be proved wrong on that but I don’t think so.
    It is part of Hija and Dawa, three strands – Refugees – Business – Student into Western countries. Look at Europe.

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  28. Shunda barunda (2,982 comments) says:

    “One of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I am intolerant of is intolerance.”

    Yeah that has a nice ring to it but for one problem, who decides what is or is not intolerance?
    In my experience the people that use this saying the most are some of the most intolerant people you can come across, intolerance to them is anybody in disagreement with their agenda.
    How many left wing activists start screaming bigot at anybody not in submission to their ideology?
    Remember the suggestion that the bible should be wrapped up in plastic with a warning attached, or how about the Muslims that wanted (and succeeded?) the cross taken off the clock tower of a NZ town (I forget which one) as it was an affront to their religion.
    Tolerance is not peeling off any aspect of our culture that others don’t like, perhaps we have confused tolerance with the “progressive” agenda of the left wing.
    I absolutely believe that left thinking people have got a bigger intolerance problem than any other group in NZ, and by a country mile.

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  29. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Surely you’re not suggesting the field of science is capable of understanding spiritual realms?

    Science is capable, given enough time, of coming to an understanding of almost anything. It is the nature of science to be asking questions, finding answers, testing the answers and whenever necessary, redefining knowledge, accepting error and progressing. Science could understand spiritual realms, if such realms existed, but as they don’t, there is nothing to study.

    Was your 4:01 comment in general including about the little boy an oblique reference to the question about why does evil exist?

    No, it was meant to illustrate the poison of the religious, and their hypocrisy.

    Anyway, let’s not divert into those areas, you say you understand why Muslims do what they do. So what is your interpretation of that, billy?

    Their motivation is no different to the motivation of those who, for example, persecuted Gallileo, destroyed English translations of the bible, burned heretics, such as Cranmer et al, as well as witches and who, even today, deny the evidence science palces before they eyes.

    You see, we’ve had 600 years of reforming xtianity to make it better fit a modern world, the muslims have a lot of catching up to do. They must find their Wycliffes and Cranmers. Striking the parallels between the reading of the bible in latin alone and the koran in arabic alone as part of worship, don’t you think?

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  30. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Billy, Galileo died peacefully being paid his pension to the end.

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  31. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Remember the suggestion that the bible should be wrapped up in plastic with a warning attached, or how about the Muslims that wanted (and succeeded?) the cross taken off the clock tower of a NZ town (I forget which one) as it was an affront to their religion.

    I suspect you are referring to Palmerston North.

    If so, you are wrong, but then the right were never good at understanding anything except reading (no comprehension) writing and maths.

    The clock tower was gifted to Palmerston North in the 1950’s, and had no cross. A cross was alter added as part of xmas decorations and no one ever got around to taking it down. Theer were plans for repairs to the clock and the wing (god?) blew the cross off, leading to a debate about the palce of the cross on a public building.

    Debate about the appropriateness of the cross on the Clock Tower and the Tower itself has been almost continuous throughout the history of the Clock Tower

    Nothing to do with muslims at all.

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  32. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    MikeNZ (428) Vote: 0 0 Says:

    October 24th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
    Billy, Galileo died peacefully being paid his pension to the end.

    And where did I say otherwise?

    Oh the lamentable ignorance of right wing xtians.

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  33. Fale Andrew Lesa (473 comments) says:

    :D

    All the more reason for National to get radical and tighten up ALL IMMIGRATION policies and processes for New Zealand. It’s high time New Zealand starts attracting the right kind of immigrants – those with western skills & qualities that will be useful to contribute to our society, more importantly our industries and our economy.

    Lets get tough!

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  34. CircusMind (23 comments) says:

    Backster, you misunderstand me. My point is not that all Muslims are prodigious, professional, law-abiding souls while whites Whites are slovenly parasites. My point is that what is important is not the class one is put into (whether it be by colour, creed, culture or status), but the merits of the individual persons within the class. Some Muslims will be violent, some law-abiding. Some will be hard-working, some not. But to exclude all Muslims on an explicitly racist, not to mention falsifiable assumption that all Muslims are violent is absurd. Cherry-picking potential immigrants, however, would not be: lets take in all the law-abiding Pakistani doctors, dentists and engineers that we can, its our loss if we don’t.

    I would like to go further and say that a diverse multi-cultural society is desirable, so this would be another reason to allow higher immigration, but I’m afraid I would not be able to convince you of that point. The above however seems to me at least to be acceptable.

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  35. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Science is capable, given enough time, of coming to an understanding of almost anything.

    Billy, glad you said “almost.” It’s a rather relevant qualifier. Since science is based on observation, hypothesis and experimentation, I make the simple observation that despite a plethora of scientific genius over centuries, in all that time no-one has made the slightest dent in understanding or even attempting to understand G-d. Not one, ever. Yet He persists, impervious, as the most influential figure in human history, throughout all of that time.

    No, it was meant to illustrate the poison of the religious, and their hypocrisy.

    As I said billy and have said many many times previously, it’s really really really important, that one distinguishes faith from mankind’s religious teachings. That’s a really really really basic point. If I did exclamation marks, would that help you understand that point?

    Their motivation is no different to the motivation of those who, for example, persecuted Gallileo, destroyed English translations of the bible, burned heretics, such as Cranmer et al, as well as witches and who, even today, deny the evidence science palces before they eyes.

    So your answer billy seeks to explain the actions of 21st century Muslims by comparing them with a 16th century medieval mindset with no allowance given to the social and educational advances since that time? I hardly think that’s credible.

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  36. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    But to exclude all Muslims on an explicitly racist, (…)

    Regret to inform you, CircusMouse, muslim is not a race.

    I would like to go further and say that a diverse multi-cultural society is desirable, (…)

    And the evidence for this desireability would be…?

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  37. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    reid (3249) Vote: 0 0 Says:

    October 24th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
    Science is capable, given enough time, of coming to an understanding of almost anything.

    Billy, glad you said “almost.” It’s a rather relevant qualifier. Since science is based on observation, hypothesis and experimentation, I make the simple observation that despite a plethora of scientific genius over centuries, in all that time no-one has made the slightest dent in understanding or even attempting to understand G-d. Not one, ever. Yet He persists, impervious, as the most influential figure in human history, throughout all of that time.

    I said almost, as one can never be totally certain. But observation, hypothesis and experimentation have failed to find the slightest trace of god, therefore I conclude god does not exist,or at least, is highly improbable. Can you prove, through observation, hypothesis and experimentation the existence of your god and non-existence of all other gods?

    As I said billy and have said many many times previously, it’s really really really important, that one distinguishes faith from mankind’s religious teachings.

    Ah, the Karen Armstrong argument. Sorry,t doesn’t work.

    So your answer billy seeks to explain the actions of 21st century Muslims by comparing them with a 16th century medieval mindset with no allowance given to the social and educational advances since that time? I hardly think that’s credible.

    What you think doesn’t matter as much as reality. The social and educational advances of western social democracies has largely passed by the majority of the world’s moslems, they are still very much in the same developmental state as western societies of the 16th century.

    As I said, where the bible was once permitted to be read only in Latin, funnily enough, up until the 16th century, even today the koran is only read in Arabic in worship, regardless of the nation or language(s) of the faithful.

    In effect, the majority of the Islamic worls is as illeducated and theologically illiterate as a sixteenth century serf.

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  38. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    Borker is right. Islam is not a race, it is a religous-political philosphy and as such can be ridiculed, debated and spat on as much as any idea can be. When people who are opposed to Islam get accused of racism, the accuser either knows nothing or is an apologist for jihad. I can’t stand Islamists be they white, black, Maori, Arab, Asian or martian for that matter. I would rather they loved somewhere else. The Iraqi Assyrians who made my kebab tonight are welcome in my home.

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  39. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Can you prove, through observation, hypothesis and experimentation the existence of your god and non-existence of all other gods?

    billy, I don’t seek to do that. The fact I don’t, does not invalidate that truth. That’s why its called “faith.” You can’t see it, smell it, touch it and yet that doesn’t invalidate it. Look as a minuscule example for example, at the cities we’ve built since mankind’s civilisation emerged. Every single building that has ever been, was once nothing more than a conception in someone’s mind: i.e. scientifically improvable. Yet they came to exist in scientific reality and continue to exist. Something out of nothing, merely because someone had faith. billy, the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth is not different. Your lack of understanding however amazes me in one so astute.

    Ah, the Karen Armstrong argument. Sorry,t doesn’t work.

    Please elucidate. From my point of view, it’s pretty simple. No-one tells me what my relationship with the Creator is. Period. No-one has ever tried to, and no-one ever will. Just like the State doesn’t and can’t tell you what your relationship is with your own parents. I don’t understand how it could possibly be any different.

    …the majority of the world’s moslems, they are still very much in the same developmental state as western societies of the 16th century….

    So this is a generalised stereotypical supposition which I assume you lefties are against, or a known fact in which case, what’s the evidence?

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  40. Seán (397 comments) says:

    Clearly ‘racism’ is the wrong word but what the said accusers probably meant was ‘xenophobic’ (according to dictionary.com: an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange). There’s no point defending the situation by pointing out the obvious – that Islam is not a race – but the intent of the said opposer is all too often much the same. In saying that I tend to agree with several commentators that should the population reach a certain level, things may get a little uglier. Based on current events in Europe I don’t this this is an ‘unreasonable fear’ though ;-)

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  41. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Reid, the problem with your argument, is you don’t have one. You keep coming back to faith, and faith is simply believing you are right when there is no evidence to support your belief and in the face of evidence to the contrary.

    Faith means never having to look for answers.

    I’ve said it before – we are both atheists, I just belive in one fewer god than you. when you understand why you reject all the other possible gods, then you will also understand why i reject your god. Why do you reject all the other possible gods?

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  42. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    Working in a situation that has Muslims way above their percentage in NZ…

    I find that they are very intolerate and extremely aggressive when found wanting.

    This in a company that can produce 18 different language speakers.

    Just trouble brewing at mill in my opinion..

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  43. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    As they are finding in the USA.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/allahs_apostate_cassandra.html

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  44. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    DPF, top marks for trying. You can see, though, that you are flogging a dead horse here, at least with many of your most regular posters. As an outsider who watched this site for quite a while before taking the plunge, I’m a little surprised at the latitude you afford them when you are clearly not of their ilk.

    I would address a word to Adam, just above. Adam, the problem is not any inherent intolerance or aggressiveness. I have discovered this truth after many, many years of dealing with, initially, indigenous Maori, then Pacific Island, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, South African and other immigrants: the truth is, we all have differences in our cultures, and we all immediately take umbrage when someone transgresses “our” unspoken rules, even though we obviously know they don’t know “our” rules.

    It’s just the way we are.

    And we have the advantage because we know our culture and they are the outsiders, so we must put in the hard yards to understand and respect theirs.

    When I finally woke up and did that, I never had another problem.

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  45. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    (…) so we must put in the hard yards to understand and respect theirs.

    One simple question, Luc. Why?

    Why should I respect a culture that doesn’t respect women?

    Why should I respect a culture that that is anti-progress?

    Why should I respect a culture that causes horrid pain and suffering in the way it slaughters beasts?

    Why should I respect a culture that refuses to understand and respect mine?

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  46. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Thanks for the link Blip
    BBC slant

    Luc
    Your attitude is why Europe is nearly stuffed and there are no go areas now in UK, France, Denmark and Holland, which will grow in size and numbers as the Muslim community grows.
    We in the West are corrupt and wicked and at some time they hope to have the numbers to have Sharia wherever they are. Until then they push for their culture to usurp the host in little but visible ways.
    Ever notice whenever there are docos or opinion pieces they have women and kids prominent, yet a woman is worth half a 13yr old boy in a Sharia Court. Yet we are below her in value/credibility as Non-Muslims.
    Ahmed down the corner shop is nice and friendly now but you see where the wind blows when Muslims are 15% here and I have no doubt you will be so understanding and accepting of their culture for themselves in their lives.

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  47. malcolm (1,952 comments) says:

    Mike, can you name a no-go Muslim area in the UK, or London?

    It’s a uniquely NZ naivety to think that we will not experience the same problems which other countries have had from Muslim minorities.

    I don’t have anything against Islam in particular. I view it as much the same nonsense as other religions, except it’s immature. And it has a strangle-hold on some of the most backward cultures we have in the world.

    I suggest we wait, say 500 years, until Islam (and the cultures under it) catch up with the rest of the world and then I think Muslim immigrants shouldn’t be a problem.

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  48. kiwireader (45 comments) says:

    DPF – Is that actually what you think? Really? I’m pretty bewildered if it is.

    All of the once great European countries are now flooded with Muslims, and are circling the drain because of it. Not long before they will be the dominant voter base. Like Brian said in the very first post, it is only due to the relatively small numbers that we don’t have the same issues. Any surprise that the Aussies are now experiencing more and more terror related issues? Wake up New Zealand. We want people who think like us.

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  49. Dazzaman (1,138 comments) says:

    malcolm

    Mike, can you name a no-go Muslim area in the UK, or London?

    My wife walked into one of these “no-go muslim area”‘s in London nearly 20 years ago! She can’t remember the name of the area but they were slaughtering chickens at the end of a cul-de-sac with distinctly unfriendly, obviously muslim people if their attire was anything to go by, doing the butchering & going about their business. She got out of their quickly.

    Why do you say it’s an immature religion? It’s been around for nigh on 1500 years, it’s not the Mormonism or Scientology!! No, they will still be hostile to outsiders. It doesn’t matter how long you give them. The sentence of death on apostates is a pretty strong incentive not to leave their religion. Granted it is prevalent in many “backward” countries, but even Western influence cannot dampen islamic radicalism! The reasons are more then likely in the teachings of their major prophet who advocated spreading islam forcibly with the sword & killing Jews, Christians & heathens who refuse it.

    The veneer of civilisation can be extremely thin, there’s no reason to expect Western values can change the savageness inherent in the islamic heart! Even with all the time in the world!

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  50. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Billy

    No doubt you cannot see how the same allegations you make against Islam can equally be made against us.

    Why should I respect a culture in which only 20% of valid rape complaints result in a conviction?

    Why should I respect a culture in which large segments deny evolution, deny climate change, and wish to return our education system to the 19th century?

    Why should I respect a culture that slaughters animals cruelly in order to fulfill export demand (Halal killing)?

    Why should I respect a culture that refuses to understand and respect others?

    Billy, immigrants overwhelmingly exhibit a couple of characteristics: gratitude to their host country and motivation to contribute to the society of their host country.

    If the host country displays prejudice, hostility and discrimination those characteristics understandably evaporate.

    And this veneer of civilization? Civilization that has killed over a million Iraqis? Civilization that has killed over 20,000 Afghan civilians? Civilization that founded Stalin’s purges? The Holocaust? Hiroshima? Nagasaki?

    Peace be upon you.

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  51. menace (402 comments) says:

    Its the people righting the bullshit that so much of this page is that make the problems!

    You fucks wanna take a journey, walk the streets of different lands, sit drink tea and have conversation with with people that don’t speek language as you. A great deal of the commenters here are totally culturally uneducated and insensitive.

    The one thing I’ve come to believe from my rich experiances on this beatiful and diverse planet is that “the poorer the people the richer the culture(or people even)”

    Some of the people on this page should keep there dam mouths shut. You are the people that will make the problems that you speek of. It angers me that i will have ot pay the price of you uninformed trouble making opinions.

    Mark my words.

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  52. LabourDoesntWork (287 comments) says:

    menace, it’s Muslims forming a fresh underclass in every society they migrate to in large numbers. The more migrants (not immigrants as they assimilate) that arrive the more those countries will resemble those they chose to leave. Oh, joy.

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  53. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    All of the once great European countries are now flooded with Muslims, and are circling the drain because of it.

    If all the once great European countries didn’t allow immigration they would have dwindling populations and their economies would not just be circling the drain.

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