Maori, forests and the ETS
October 19th, 2009 at 2:00 pm by David FarrarRoar Prawn is predicting a major fight ahead over the ETS:
There’s a six billion fight over the ETS about to blow up. That’s how much Maori-owned forestry land has been devalued by the ETS. …
Select Committee could get very messy.
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October 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Dead right. And Pakeha forest owners are just as badly affected.
When is John Key going to step in, sack Nick Smith, abandon his stupid ETS and do something more sensible and less destructive like a carbon tax. As it is, Smith (and his Labour mates Parker and Chauvel) are destroying billions of dollars of wealth but not doing anything to reduce emissions – see http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/ets-bill-wont-achieve-govt-target-says-commissioner-113445 It is the worst possible policy.
No wonder no other country in the world is doing an all-sectors/all-gases ETS. Nick Smith is making us a laughing stock. See the Wall Street Journal at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438242710572698.html?mod=googlenews_wsj This par is a classic:
“The Nationals are pushing to pass the bill before the December United Nations climate-change meeting. ‘This emissions-trading scheme will be the first of any country outside of Europe and, as of 1 July 2010, will be the most comprehensive,’ Mr.Smith enthused. But to what end?”
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
“This emissions-trading scheme will be the first of any country outside of Europe and, as of 1 July 2010, will be the most comprehensive,’ Mr.Smith enthused. But to what end?”
To the advancement of the ideas embraced by the closet-socialist Nick Smith, the incompetent minister who single-handedly will break NZ economy’s backbone.
True to form his boss dithers and waits while Smith, the Green fifth-columnist, pushes on with his destructive agenda.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Until recently I had a bit of time for the Waka Blonde, what a pity that she has revealed herself as just another in the long line of racist Mowree keen for her share of the gravy train.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Soon the World will be squabbling over the dosh – this is just the start.
Anyway, why are we fighting when the science is settled?
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
“Dead right. And Pakeha forest owners are just as badly affected. ”
That’s ok. They’re rich and privileged, they can afford it.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
big Bruv – do you read!!! hell i am saying stop the gravy train – …. and this is about forestry owners not just Maori forest owners…
Waka Blonde??? heh.. Waka cottontop is a more apt descriptor
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
So, those who actually do some research generally prefer a carbon tax. That would be the Greens, and (before the recent lurch to populism on this matter) ACT. Those who get donations/need support from people who want to make a buck out of it (National/Labour) support an ETS. Interesting.
John Key should do the right thing – carbon tax. It’s better in many ways.
Here is some interesting reading on the lack of impact that Australia’s ETS will have: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26226982-7583,00.html
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
I hope this is not classified as thread jacking;
Vote:BUT
I think the correct spelling is Whaka Blonde. In my childhood I was taught that it was an abbreviation of Whakarewarewa.
AND
I think the Maori forest owners might punch some information into the scones of those Emission Trading Scheme zealots. Those Maori leaders are accustomed to getting from the taxpayer; not giving to the taxpayer. Indeed, it might be considered to be culturally insensitive to ask those kaumatuas for money.
October 19th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Smith wants to join the Melons, he is as mad as the best of them. Why all the concern about the Maori forest owners, for fucks sake what about everybody involved in agriculture, all our land is been devalued, 6 billion will be chicken feed when these two bobs have finished with us. George the simple reason we are paying for livestock emissions is that the bloody socialists realised they would have no one to screw over ( no dosh as they had just about dreamt up every way to tax everything that moves ) unless they hit the cockies and the National socialists are right up their back passage when it comes to this rip off. And we all know cash is a bit short at the moment.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Maori will want a ‘top up’ because their forrests are worth less than when they were ‘given’ them. You know just the way we are compensated when the value of our homes drop oh wait…………that doesnt happen does it. We live with it and get on with life, not our fellow brethren tho’ nope they get ‘compensation’ and guess who pays for it?
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
So the maoris will loose book value? Good.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
NBR, Business Roundtable and everyone else saying the same thing as Maoris – see http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/ets-a-political-bombshell-waiting-happen-113617
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
If they are actually going to go through with these ETS law’s then the tax payer would not be paying to sub these bussiness.
Vote:Tehy should be passing the expense’s of there products onto the buyers.
And teh money should be directly used to actually reduce emitions and increase energy efficiency.
The system as it is atm really stinks.
October 19th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Who’s the wanker who has given LUCY negative kalma, she is merely stating the facts. You can bet your bottom dollar no iwi will be affected financially by the ETS.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
When the government gives something in settlement of a debt (i.e. sells something), and then takes policy action to devalue the thing it has just sold, that is considered an act that might require compensation.
You know, like when they sold Telecom NZ, and then later changed the rules to decrease its value, and compensated the shareholders.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Murray – by your own definition you should be expecting negative karma – you’ve completely missed the point. Maori are saying that the ETS is going to directly impact on their land value to the tune of $6 billion. How can you seriously say that no iwi will be financially affected? It’s a complete shambles.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Because iwi will be compensated unlike every other buggar affected
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Exactly Murray M
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
ETS? I thought National won the last election? Why would a right-of-centre party be pushing this?
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
What ‘right-of-centre party’ ISeeRed National stoped being a right of centre party when they rolled Don Brash only they forgot to tell us before the election.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Pauli, the Maori party is part of the government. All Sharple has to do is not vote for it and I know Act won’t and the bill won’t be passed. It is these back room deals with Maori that upset me. The taxpayer shouldn’t be held accountable for the devaluation of the forest because Maori party voted for the ETS. Maori should be thinking of everyone and how much hardship this bill will cost all of us. Instead, they are looking out for themselves and cost taxpayers 6 billion??????? I think most kiwi’s are tired of subsidising the Maori.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Pretty good comment jackp. However we are not subsidising Maori, we are paying for them lock, stock, and barrel.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Well they were given a billion dollar cheque a while ago as the end of all their claims and bitching.
Unfortunately that was only a tiny deposit and the well is deeper tha anyone could have dreamed.
Still waiting for that stone to go plop.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
# Murray M (417) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 19th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Pretty good comment jackp. However we are not subsidising Maori, we are paying for them lock, stock, and barrel.
I agree MM: we are not subsidising Maori: Maori subsidised us since 1840 and now we are paying them BACK lock, sto…(the rest is still coming!)
And Robert, I predicted at the unveiling of the “Fiscal Envelope” that once you start the process, you lose control of the end point. Just how do you quantify the price of 170 years of dispossession, marginalisation and discrimination?
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
What I have never understood was the rationale behind Liarbore’s complete economic-reversal of the forestry industry. Through a variety of legislative mechanisms they gradually and in a planned manner made it un-viable to invest.
Given that trees are net oxygen emitters during their lifetimes, and in addition, carbon sinks which could be safely managed at harvest time, I don’t get it, never have.
It was more than the mere superior-at-the-time-$-viability of the Dairy Industry over forestry. It was a policy emplaced from the beginning.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
@Luc
“Just how do you quantify the price of 170 years of dispossession, marginalisation and discrimination?”
Good question Luc, maybe you could start with putting a price on the genocide of an entire indigenous race of people, that is the Moriori (oh but that’s right but they were Maori) and start to make a calculation from there.
Vote:October 19th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Plus you would need to factor in and subtract a fair amount for the discrimination against all other non-Maori by the Maori over the last 170 years.
Vote:October 20th, 2009 at 8:24 am
When you really think about it and stop getting into this race and poor maori syndrome, Luc Hansen, the Maori party have control over this. They decide if their forest is to be devalued by 6 billion not what happened 150 years ago but now! They fought hard to get their representation in government and they put themselves in a perfect position to take control. Either it is a yes or no for the ETS. If it is no, then their value will stay but a yes will mean they have their hands in the taxpayers pockets again. Stop trying to create a red herring about prejudice and divisiveness.
Vote:October 20th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Why go there you ignorant dolt?! You just answered your own silly statement. And Lucy aren’t the Maori forest owners “…getting on with life…” by protecting their assets? If it’s at the tax payers expense, get on the Maori roll & vote them off or lobby the govt. to be rid of the seats! Fuckin moaner.
Hey, if you give those brownies a bit of power they just go ahead & rape the taxpayer! Cheeky darkies! LOL.
By the way Murray I’ve given you, you wanker, & Lucy negative karma. Shove it up your arse!
Vote:October 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Either we struck a nerve or Dazzaman is rabid.
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