Comments on: Maori, forests and the ETS

By: Murray M

Murray M — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:39:51 +0000

Either we struck a nerve or Dazzaman is rabid.

By: Dazzaman

Dazzaman — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:10:18 +0000

“…the genocide of an entire indigenous race of people, that is the Moriori (oh but that’s right but they were Maori) …”

Why go there you ignorant dolt?! You just answered your own silly statement. And Lucy aren’t the Maori forest owners “…getting on with life…” by protecting their assets? If it’s at the tax payers expense, get on the Maori roll & vote them off or lobby the govt. to be rid of the seats! Fuckin moaner.

Hey, if you give those brownies a bit of power they just go ahead & rape the taxpayer! Cheeky darkies! LOL.

By the way Murray I’ve given you, you wanker, & Lucy negative karma. Shove it up your arse!

By: jackp

jackp — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:24:41 +0000

When you really think about it and stop getting into this race and poor maori syndrome, Luc Hansen, the Maori party have control over this. They decide if their forest is to be devalued by 6 billion not what happened 150 years ago but now! They fought hard to get their representation in government and they put themselves in a perfect position to take control. Either it is a yes or no for the ETS. If it is no, then their value will stay but a yes will mean they have their hands in the taxpayers pockets again. Stop trying to create a red herring about prejudice and divisiveness.

By: Robert Black

Robert Black — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:48:02 +0000

Plus you would need to factor in and subtract a fair amount for the discrimination against all other non-Maori by the Maori over the last 170 years.

By: Robert Black

Robert Black — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:43:56 +0000

@Luc

“Just how do you quantify the price of 170 years of dispossession, marginalisation and discrimination?”

Good question Luc, maybe you could start with putting a price on the genocide of an entire indigenous race of people, that is the Moriori (oh but that’s right but they were Maori) and start to make a calculation from there.

By: reid

reid — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:57:02 +0000

What I have never understood was the rationale behind Liarbore’s complete economic-reversal of the forestry industry. Through a variety of legislative mechanisms they gradually and in a planned manner made it un-viable to invest.

Given that trees are net oxygen emitters during their lifetimes, and in addition, carbon sinks which could be safely managed at harvest time, I don’t get it, never have.

It was more than the mere superior-at-the-time-$-viability of the Dairy Industry over forestry. It was a policy emplaced from the beginning.

By: Luc Hansen

Luc Hansen — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:41:28 +0000

# Murray M (417) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 19th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

Pretty good comment jackp. However we are not subsidising Maori, we are paying for them lock, stock, and barrel.

I agree MM: we are not subsidising Maori: Maori subsidised us since 1840 and now we are paying them BACK lock, sto…(the rest is still coming!)

And Robert, I predicted at the unveiling of the “Fiscal Envelope” that once you start the process, you lose control of the end point. Just how do you quantify the price of 170 years of dispossession, marginalisation and discrimination?

By: Robert Black

Robert Black — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:45:00 +0000

Well they were given a billion dollar cheque a while ago as the end of all their claims and bitching.

Unfortunately that was only a tiny deposit and the well is deeper tha anyone could have dreamed.

Still waiting for that stone to go plop.

By: Murray M

Murray M — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 07:44:19 +0000

Pretty good comment jackp. However we are not subsidising Maori, we are paying for them lock, stock, and barrel.

By: jackp

jackp — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:42:56 +0000

Pauli, the Maori party is part of the government. All Sharple has to do is not vote for it and I know Act won’t and the bill won’t be passed. It is these back room deals with Maori that upset me. The taxpayer shouldn’t be held accountable for the devaluation of the forest because Maori party voted for the ETS. Maori should be thinking of everyone and how much hardship this bill will cost all of us. Instead, they are looking out for themselves and cost taxpayers 6 billion??????? I think most kiwi’s are tired of subsidising the Maori.

By: LUCY

LUCY — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:26:04 +0000

What ‘right-of-centre party’ ISeeRed National stoped being a right of centre party when they rolled Don Brash only they forgot to tell us before the election.

By: ISeeRed

ISeeRed — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:13:43 +0000

ETS? I thought National won the last election? Why would a right-of-centre party be pushing this?

By: LUCY

LUCY — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:44:56 +0000

Exactly Murray M

By: Murray M

Murray M — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:12:40 +0000

Because iwi will be compensated unlike every other buggar affected

By: indie

indie — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:06:59 +0000

Murray – by your own definition you should be expecting negative karma – you’ve completely missed the point. Maori are saying that the ETS is going to directly impact on their land value to the tune of $6 billion. How can you seriously say that no iwi will be financially affected? It’s a complete shambles.

By: PaulL

PaulL — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:56:15 +0000

When the government gives something in settlement of a debt (i.e. sells something), and then takes policy action to devalue the thing it has just sold, that is considered an act that might require compensation.

You know, like when they sold Telecom NZ, and then later changed the rules to decrease its value, and compensated the shareholders.

By: Murray M

Murray M — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:50:24 +0000

Who’s the wanker who has given LUCY negative kalma, she is merely stating the facts. You can bet your bottom dollar no iwi will be affected financially by the ETS.

By: menace

menace — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:46:07 +0000

If they are actually going to go through with these ETS law’s then the tax payer would not be paying to sub these bussiness.
Tehy should be passing the expense’s of there products onto the buyers.
And teh money should be directly used to actually reduce emitions and increase energy efficiency.
The system as it is atm really stinks.

By: george

george — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:38:34 +0000

NBR, Business Roundtable and everyone else saying the same thing as Maoris – see http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/ets-a-political-bombshell-waiting-happen-113617

By: serge

serge — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:24:40 +0000

So the maoris will loose book value? Good.