When are all the useless courses at university going to be slashed?

A very good question. Why couldn’t we chart a course to offer world-leading Uni education is a small set of disciplines (Agriculture, Livestock genetics, Digital animation & movie industry, and a few others?) and drop everything else from the state-funded menu?

If we stopped being generalists in a world that collectively produces better grads in almost every area, and concentrated our effort in being global experts in just a few domains, would this be better for our future? I suspect so.

Try reading The Dip by Seth Godin. Some great stuff in there about specialist vs generalist, and the physiology of winning. Targeted at individuals, but principles therein equally relevant for businesses and whole countries.

In Pete’s list women’s studies are obviously useless and politically motivated crap. Social science for public health is a waste. It might be justified as an add-on course for medical schools, otherwise it’s just helping to bloat the bureaucracy that chokes our health system. Employment relations and organisation belongs at most in a polytechnic, but why should the state train trade unionists even in polytechnics?

You would have to query “film, television, and media studies” (how many film and media critics jobs are there in NZ?). I’ve always thought art history a bit of a luxury given how many gallery curators and art critic jobs the country has, but then Denis Dutton of Arts & Letters Daily teaches this so perhaps I’m wrong. I would throw out writing studies in favour of literature, but on the other hand some people think the English-speaking world needs scores of thousands of new novels to be pulped every year, with average readership of 20 to 40. We all know that Shakespeare and Milton wouldn’t have made it if they were self-taught, don’t we?

Dance and drama are fine but ought to be in specialist schools.

NZ lags in language skills, but Samoan, with stuff all literature and a tiny population belongs in polytechnics and night classes rather than a university.

Education was better in the specialist teachers’ colleges before Labour, the party of teachers, consolidated these in universities as part of its drive to upgrade primary teacher pay and status.

Junk courses in Pete’s list create junk BAs with bugger all job prospects and big chips on their shoulders – and a lot of student debt.

Sorry to have sent you on a chase for a goose BlackMoss

To wander away from the fluffy issues just to say my perspective on the racial inequivalence, I’m hoping that with respect to Maori participation in our society, the recent rise of the Maori party, a separate ministry, and redressing of land grievances should theoretically start to give results, as long as the people involved are prepared to take the long view, and don’t just spread the money amongst a few. I have generally heard good stories about Ngai Tahu in this respect. Interestingly, some of the successful Maori (musicians, scientists) I have met have come from Maori immersion schools, which I would not automatically agree with. But if it gives results, then maybe its the way forward… We have to look at the way our culture is geared, and why some groups choose not to buy into it. I would also support basic Maori in schools for everybody to learn, but that’s just a personal fancy not something I would want to force on anybody.

My point about personal responsibility remains however and I suppose it is a response to a feeling that the welfare dependancy/entitlement mentality pendulum has swung too far and is in need of a correction. The upshot may well be that it might swing back too far the other way (as pendulums/pendula?) are wont to do in which case either another branch of the welfare state will pick up the pieces or there will be another correction to the generosity of funding from the state.

Somehow we need to increase the willingness of the population to care for their own needs. Talking about it doesn’t help so the withdrawal of support may well be a requirement to sheet home that responsibility. At the risk of being deemed a racist, this does appear to be correlated to certain racial groups who impose a larger burden on the state per head of population than others. Perhaps therein also lies one of the difficulties with dealing with it but that part of the debate is wandering away from the fluffy issues surrounding adult education.

BTW the post on Red Alert I was referring to was Trevor Mallard’s posting of a letter from a constituent who had run the full gamut of courses over many years in what appeared to be a rather aimless exercise in self discovery.

Couldn’t find the “feel good” blog on the Red Alert, try to steer clear of that propaganda anyway. On the strictly logical argument I would have to say OK to the prostititutes for self-esteem if it was shown to work and get people productive in their jobs or happier and I guess at the same time its supporting an industry of a kind. The specifics of the situation may be arguable however. I would guess that in our current society people would feel some measure of guilt or deviance in visiting a prostitute so it wouldn’t necessarily boost the self esteem IMO.

I accept your answer on the bottom line question regarding people’s responsibility to supporting, or trying to make life better for others. On one level, it does seem bizarre to fund an education program for someone else on something that may be frivilous at best. My arguments about these things aren’t particularly well thought out necessarily. I do believe though that it would be better, simply for our own happiness, to care more about the situation of others, particularly people who have had a tough start. $150 is simply beyond the expendable income of many poor people or elderly. Too much of an individual approach gives rise to too much competitiveness — it seems like different demographics are all fighting for resources — older people are saving for retirement, younger people want to buy a house and get established, immigrant groups fighting for the scraps at the bottom, people want to buy in a certain area to get access to a certain school, the elderly are just viewed as an economic drain… sometimes I feel like I’m in some kind of battle… It’s all a bit of self-fulfilling prophesy, we look out for ourselves thus creating a world where it only pays to look after ourselves.

Cry me a river. I don’t have children and I pay tax too. Also:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/10/protesting_against_no_more_free_silk_scarf_painting_classes.html#comment-622149

“This would have been easier to swallow if Nats had not just massively increased public top-up funding of expensive private schools, so that the very rich can now send their little dears to EVEN BETTER schools than those the rest of us hardworking taxpayers can afford, courtesy of me. Nice optional extras for the rich National voting set are clearly not off the agenda just because of the recession. ”

You don’t get it do you????? The parents of those children pay taxes too and they get less money spent on those children than the public school children. You’re preaching envy politics.

The fairest thing would be for parents of private school children to be able to claim that costs (fees) off of their taxable income.

Yes I should’ve differentiated between ‘taxpayer’ and ‘government’ in this case.

Tricksy tax stuff – what does the second point mean? Does it mean you get the cost of fees back? Think Brash wanted to do the equivalent with student loans, not that I knew what that meant then either.

What’s useless Pete?

Bachelor of Arts
Ancient History | Anthropology | Art History | Asian Studies | Chinese | Classical Studies | Criminology | Dance* | Drama | Economics | Education | Employment Relations and Organisation Studies | English | English Language Acquisition and Linguistics | Ethics | Ethnomusicology* | European Studies | Film, Television and Media Studies | French | Geography | German | Greek | History | Italian | Japanese | Korean | Latin | Latin American Studies* | Linguistics | Linguistics and English Language Teaching | Logic and Computation | Māori Studies | Mathematics | Medieval and Early Modern European Studies* | Music | Music Education* | Pacific Studies | Philosophy | Political Studies | Psychology | Samoan* | Social Science for Public Health | Sociology | Spanish | Statistics | Tongan* | Women’s Studies | Writing Studies

Oh, look, some foreign languages. And old old stuff. Music (not ukulele though).

Biblical Studies | Christian Thought and History | Practical Theology

etc etc

You mean those course that people PAY for?

If they paid for them universities wouldn’t need funding would they? Wouldn’t need to fund loans. Wouldn’t need student allowances.

Answers – absolutely. Regardless of their level of participation, everyone is part of “society”
– No. They key lies in the word all. If i was devout Christian I might have been tempted to consider “yes” as an answer (Brother’s keeper etc) but I believe firmly in personal and familial responsibility. It is a parent’s responsibility to encourage their child to raise its education levels by taking full advantage of the facilities provided by the state. If they are really keen and are willing to put in more, they will find a way to make it happen. Too many don’t however just as they don’t give adequate attention to their child’s nutrician and general welfare. Does this mean that poorly cared for children should be left to die in squalor? Of course not They should be taqken from their parents and given to someone who will care fior them and love them and see to their needs. Does it mean that I should fund taxpayer support for someone who wants to feel good by taking a course as an adult that is not directly associated with them getting a job (ie becoming a contributing member of society)? then a resounding no would be my answer.

My line then falls in a different place to yours.

On a related issue thencan you answer this.

Should the taxpayer fund brothel visits for unmarried and unemployed persons who have low self esteem on he grounds that it makes them feel worthwhile and good about themselves?
For the full description of “feelgood” see the post of a “constituent” by Trevor Mallard at Red Alert.

Warning … logic rather than personal attitudes towards prostitutes and the sex industry should be considered carefully when framing your answer.