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	<title>Comments on: Comment No 500,000</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: malcolm</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627446</link>
		<dc:creator>malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627446</guid>
		<description>Others criticise the rabid free-for-all of Kiwiblog. That doesn&#039;t constitute a plot to shut it down. That&#039;s just the blogosphere; a tangled web of commentary, counterpoints and criticism.

The best evidence that there&#039;s no plot against Kiwiblog, is that RedBaiter wrote 22 comments arguing why, despite having such evidence, he couldn&#039;t share it with us. Because we didn&#039;t ask him in the proper way. And even if we did we&#039;d be too stupid to understand it. And anyway he didn&#039;t have time.  

I expect he&#039;s out there now. Looking for the evidence. Like O.J. Simpson; tirelessly searching for the real killer of his wife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Others criticise the rabid free-for-all of Kiwiblog. That doesn&#8217;t constitute a plot to shut it down. That&#8217;s just the blogosphere; a tangled web of commentary, counterpoints and criticism.</p>
<p>The best evidence that there&#8217;s no plot against Kiwiblog, is that RedBaiter wrote 22 comments arguing why, despite having such evidence, he couldn&#8217;t share it with us. Because we didn&#8217;t ask him in the proper way. And even if we did we&#8217;d be too stupid to understand it. And anyway he didn&#8217;t have time.  </p>
<p>I expect he&#8217;s out there now. Looking for the evidence. Like O.J. Simpson; tirelessly searching for the real killer of his wife.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627432</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627432</guid>
		<description>I remember the moderation experiment, at that stage there was quite a bit of personal attacking going on which was way outside the bounds of robust debate. I think the moderation was a worthwhile exercise, it got everyone (or most anyway) thinking about reasonable etiquette without needing to restrict good debate.

RB may be correct about restrictions on other blogs, and about blog envy, but I don&#039;t see it affecting Kiwiblog. Why the heck would DPF bother about what other blogs said? if they had great ideas they would have thriving blogs. 

I actually think it more likely that DPF would have got &quot;encouragement&quot; from National connections to tidy things up a bit, with the generally reasonable way they are dealing with being in government they could perceivably see a threat of embarrassment by being associated with manic nasty blogging. 

It is also possible simply that DPF could feel embarrassed by some of what has been posted to his blog and wanted to settle things down a bit.

But having said that I don&#039;t see any sign of any resultant restrictions on anything that is reasonable. Does anyone feel like they can&#039;t still have a decent debate?

From what I see quote a few people with other blogs actively participate here as well, and they are much more likely to be influenced by the success they see at Kiwiblog. The idea that multiple blogs are conspiring to shut down Kiwiblog seems pathetic to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember the moderation experiment, at that stage there was quite a bit of personal attacking going on which was way outside the bounds of robust debate. I think the moderation was a worthwhile exercise, it got everyone (or most anyway) thinking about reasonable etiquette without needing to restrict good debate.</p>
<p>RB may be correct about restrictions on other blogs, and about blog envy, but I don&#8217;t see it affecting Kiwiblog. Why the heck would DPF bother about what other blogs said? if they had great ideas they would have thriving blogs. </p>
<p>I actually think it more likely that DPF would have got &#8220;encouragement&#8221; from National connections to tidy things up a bit, with the generally reasonable way they are dealing with being in government they could perceivably see a threat of embarrassment by being associated with manic nasty blogging. </p>
<p>It is also possible simply that DPF could feel embarrassed by some of what has been posted to his blog and wanted to settle things down a bit.</p>
<p>But having said that I don&#8217;t see any sign of any resultant restrictions on anything that is reasonable. Does anyone feel like they can&#8217;t still have a decent debate?</p>
<p>From what I see quote a few people with other blogs actively participate here as well, and they are much more likely to be influenced by the success they see at Kiwiblog. The idea that multiple blogs are conspiring to shut down Kiwiblog seems pathetic to me.</p>
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		<title>By: RRM</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627428</link>
		<dc:creator>RRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627428</guid>
		<description>RightNow: You&#039;re making very little sense. You think leftie bloggers have some kind of control over Kiwiblog?

[Quoting Rightnow]: &quot;the stranded and at kiwipolitico that basically went along the lines of ‘we wish DPF would more actively moderate kiwiblog and ban some of the more vociferous right wing views’.

I think the lefty blogs are actually extremely pissed that Kiwiblog does so so much better than them in terms of free debate (as well as ratings and traffic). They don’t get it, which is not surprising since the concept of free speech is anathema to them, and so they want it to be stopped.&quot; [/Quote]

Is criticising someone you disagree with the same thing as &quot;trying to take away their freedom of speech&quot;, in your mind?

If I had a dollar for every time someone here screamed &quot;freedom of speech&quot; after someone told them they were talking sh*t... why, I could quit working and comment here full-time like Phil or Redbaiter :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RightNow: You&#8217;re making very little sense. You think leftie bloggers have some kind of control over Kiwiblog?</p>
<p>[Quoting Rightnow]: &#8220;the stranded and at kiwipolitico that basically went along the lines of ‘we wish DPF would more actively moderate kiwiblog and ban some of the more vociferous right wing views’.</p>
<p>I think the lefty blogs are actually extremely pissed that Kiwiblog does so so much better than them in terms of free debate (as well as ratings and traffic). They don’t get it, which is not surprising since the concept of free speech is anathema to them, and so they want it to be stopped.&#8221; [/Quote]</p>
<p>Is criticising someone you disagree with the same thing as &#8220;trying to take away their freedom of speech&#8221;, in your mind?</p>
<p>If I had a dollar for every time someone here screamed &#8220;freedom of speech&#8221; after someone told them they were talking sh*t&#8230; why, I could quit working and comment here full-time like Phil or Redbaiter <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: RightNow</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627426</link>
		<dc:creator>RightNow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627426</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to chip in on this. There were comments earlier this year (that I recall, but I&#039;m sure it wasn&#039;t the first time) at the stranded and at kiwipolitico that basically went along the lines of &#039;we wish DPF would more actively moderate kiwiblog and ban some of the more vociferous right wing views&#039;.
Redbaiter at the time exhorted DPF not to cave in (I think this was about the time of a moderation &#039;experiment&#039; from DPF too) saying that the leftards were trying to shut down free speech on kiwiblog.
IMO, I think RB was mostly correct. I think the lefty blogs are actually extremely pissed that Kiwiblog does so so much better than them in terms of free debate (as well as ratings and traffic). They don&#039;t get it, which is not surprising since the concept of free speech is anathema to them, and so they want it to be stopped. 
The tipping point for me WRT kiwipolitico, was that someone there actually seriously used the term &#039;new-speak&#039;, and suggested NZ would be much the better once everyone was using &#039;new-speak&#039;.
With the stranded, well what do you need to know? They represent all the reasons National are in government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to chip in on this. There were comments earlier this year (that I recall, but I&#8217;m sure it wasn&#8217;t the first time) at the stranded and at kiwipolitico that basically went along the lines of &#8216;we wish DPF would more actively moderate kiwiblog and ban some of the more vociferous right wing views&#8217;.<br />
Redbaiter at the time exhorted DPF not to cave in (I think this was about the time of a moderation &#8216;experiment&#8217; from DPF too) saying that the leftards were trying to shut down free speech on kiwiblog.<br />
IMO, I think RB was mostly correct. I think the lefty blogs are actually extremely pissed that Kiwiblog does so so much better than them in terms of free debate (as well as ratings and traffic). They don&#8217;t get it, which is not surprising since the concept of free speech is anathema to them, and so they want it to be stopped.<br />
The tipping point for me WRT kiwipolitico, was that someone there actually seriously used the term &#8216;new-speak&#8217;, and suggested NZ would be much the better once everyone was using &#8216;new-speak&#8217;.<br />
With the stranded, well what do you need to know? They represent all the reasons National are in government.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627410</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627410</guid>
		<description>I did get what you meant Stephen. But I think the left are more like going mad with powerless at the moment.

No hypothetical credibility with me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did get what you meant Stephen. But I think the left are more like going mad with powerless at the moment.</p>
<p>No hypothetical credibility with me!</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627409</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627409</guid>
		<description>A negative karma EH?! Obviously someone has another credible hypothesis!! Out with it yon scallywag!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A negative karma EH?! Obviously someone has another credible hypothesis!! Out with it yon scallywag!</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627406</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627406</guid>
		<description>philu, only possible explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>philu, only possible explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627393</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627393</guid>
		<description>Stunning stunts by cunning....people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stunning stunts by cunning&#8230;.people?</p>
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		<title>By: philu</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627391</link>
		<dc:creator>philu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627391</guid>
		<description>that&#039;s &#039;cos they are really clever/cunning even..!..leftie conspirators..

phil(whoar.co.nz)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that&#8217;s &#8216;cos they are really clever/cunning even..!..leftie conspirators..</p>
<p>phil(whoar.co.nz)</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627390</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627390</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Um, the Left are not in power at the moment, but let’s not debate the gone mad bit.&lt;/i&gt;

Was bein&#039; sarcastic like. Did mean &#039;power&#039; generally, not necessarily government power. But really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Um, the Left are not in power at the moment, but let’s not debate the gone mad bit.</i></p>
<p>Was bein&#8217; sarcastic like. Did mean &#8216;power&#8217; generally, not necessarily government power. But really.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627389</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627389</guid>
		<description>Um, the Left are not in power at the moment, but let&#039;s not debate the gone mad bit.

I see no sign of the left exerting any power on Kiwiblog. 
I see no sign of Kiwiblog shutting down. 
I see no sign of Kiwiblog being forced to do anything.

I suspect Redbaiter would like to see himself as the kiwi version of Glen Beck, but he doesn&#039;t have the pulpit, he is trying to be a cuckoo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, the Left are not in power at the moment, but let&#8217;s not debate the gone mad bit.</p>
<p>I see no sign of the left exerting any power on Kiwiblog.<br />
I see no sign of Kiwiblog shutting down.<br />
I see no sign of Kiwiblog being forced to do anything.</p>
<p>I suspect Redbaiter would like to see himself as the kiwi version of Glen Beck, but he doesn&#8217;t have the pulpit, he is trying to be a cuckoo.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627381</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627381</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Stephen, do you agree or disagree that “all over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog”?&lt;/i&gt;

Bit the bullet and came back to this thread. Like Leg Break said - morbidly fascinating. Absolutely I agree Pete,  the Left have gone mad with power lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Stephen, do you agree or disagree that “all over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog”?</i></p>
<p>Bit the bullet and came back to this thread. Like Leg Break said &#8211; morbidly fascinating. Absolutely I agree Pete,  the Left have gone mad with power lately.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627367</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627367</guid>
		<description>Politically God looks to be straight down the middle:

Deuteronomy 5:32 &quot;So you shall observe to do just as the LORD your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right or to the left.&quot;

A centrist dictator?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politically God looks to be straight down the middle:</p>
<p>Deuteronomy 5:32 &#8220;So you shall observe to do just as the LORD your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right or to the left.&#8221;</p>
<p>A centrist dictator?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627363</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627363</guid>
		<description>Ryan, have you finished with other minor things like the age of the universe? Was God a communist? Owned everything, controlled everything, dictated rules. Obviously wasn&#039;t a capitalist. Didn&#039;t trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, have you finished with other minor things like the age of the universe? Was God a communist? Owned everything, controlled everything, dictated rules. Obviously wasn&#8217;t a capitalist. Didn&#8217;t trade.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff83</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627361</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627361</guid>
		<description>I came, I laughed at RB continuing to have no real idea of reality, and have now left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came, I laughed at RB continuing to have no real idea of reality, and have now left.</p>
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		<title>By: Leg Break</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627359</link>
		<dc:creator>Leg Break</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627359</guid>
		<description>The masochistic side of my personality is finding this thread fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The masochistic side of my personality is finding this thread fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: malcolm</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627358</link>
		<dc:creator>malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627358</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
You’ve wasted far too much of my precious time to be worth a second more.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How can I waste your time? I don&#039;t even know who you are. 

If you were in a hurry, why didn&#039;t you just cite your evidence and leave victorious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
You’ve wasted far too much of my precious time to be worth a second more.
</p></blockquote>
<p>How can I waste your time? I don&#8217;t even know who you are. </p>
<p>If you were in a hurry, why didn&#8217;t you just cite your evidence and leave victorious?</p>
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		<title>By: RRM</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627356</link>
		<dc:creator>RRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627356</guid>
		<description>#  Redbaiter: &quot;You’ve wasted far too much of my precious time to be worth a second more.&quot;

LOL. You trawl political sites all day. You&#039;re precious but your time clearly isn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#  Redbaiter: &#8220;You’ve wasted far too much of my precious time to be worth a second more.&#8221;</p>
<p>LOL. You trawl political sites all day. You&#8217;re precious but your time clearly isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Sproull</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627352</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sproull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627352</guid>
		<description>You infantile emotionally stunted communist. Replying to you would be double futile as your dense brain would not comprehend even the simplest answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You infantile emotionally stunted communist. Replying to you would be double futile as your dense brain would not comprehend even the simplest answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Redbaiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/comment_no_500000.html#comment-627351</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbaiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=37921#comment-627351</guid>
		<description>Utterly black hole dense moron. You&#039;ve wasted far too much of my precious time to be worth a second more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Utterly black hole dense moron. You&#8217;ve wasted far too much of my precious time to be worth a second more.</p>
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