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190 Responses to “General Debate 10 November 2009”
As we rapidly approach the American festival of Thanksgiving, Turkey’s lining up to join the illeducated, illinformed and illbred seppos in their delusions.
“Why I’m so interested in seeing creationism succeed in Turkey is that evolution is an evil concept that has done such damage to society,” said Morris, a Christian who has led several searches for Noah’s Ark in eastern Turkey. Members of his group have addressed Turkish conferences numerous times.
Oh yes, learning about origins and finding god didn’t do it is so, evil. Not like the love and light of god’s children who rape, pillage and plunder in his name. Can’t have children a larnin’, they might find out that all this death and destruction in the name of religion is immoral.
Its OK, dad, you can leave the darkness and walk in to the light with the rest of humanity. You will be welcomed here if you will just cast the mote from your eye and see the world as it truly is. beautiful. Awe inspiring. God free.
A question people, if a yank over here without insurance has a heart attack and needs an operation, should we operate and send a bill or do as yank hospitals do with those without the right insurance, just stabilise them and chuck them out ?
harawiras mummy has said that ” hone has nothing to apologise for and that most maori think like hone..they have got , and are getting a raw deal “…how much is enough ??? How much settlement dosh is enough !!! How many times does the white man have to apologise ??!!! Go fuck yourself Titiwhai and any other maori that thinks like that.
grumpy, if you are going to come along here, spouting your rabid anti-everything American, you might get your facts right.
I sent a copy of your comment to my doctor. Here’s the reply. You will not like it.
“What the yanks would call “stabilise” would probably be everything that NZ would do anyway. Legally they are obliged to provide emergency care. Similarly, if you had appendicitis, they would take out your appendix, regardless of your ability to pay. But they would do it in the cheapest way possible and would kick you out of hospital at the earliest possible moment.
Another day, another former government minister being quizzed on the granting of a Visa to a crime figure. Seems a big chunk of money was donated to the party to help fund their failed re-election campaign in exchange for preventing deportation and granting a Visa.
As part of my community service a la Mikey Havoc, I listened to Jim “I Have Some Right Wing Friends” Mora, Mark Inglis and some old trout with a tenuous connection to the National Party yesterday.
Inglis raised a very good point. He had been in Rarotonga and there was a Sevens tournament on. A team from Queenstown had raised $30,000 to get there and all appeared to be athletes.
Another team was there representing the NZ Parliament. I wonder how many were MPs, and whether or not they took their spouses?
Inglis said that he thought it was pretty sad a team of troughing unfit sods could get sponsored by SKY/Air NZ while a team of fit chaps with a penchant for footy had to hold sausage sizzles to get there.
I have to agree with him. I’ll bet if the question was ever raised, you’d have some moron like Mallard trotting out the “we had important business in the Cook Islands as well as the rugby”.
I see the pope has called on the faithful for a “prayer vigil” for siamese twins. Why the fuck does he think god would care about the prayers, after all, it must have been his god’s will that caused the problem. Why would he change his mind?
Deborah Coddington made an interesting comment on Hide last night – she pointed out that last week Hide would have discovered how it feels being under intense media glare, compared to the past when he was often active in turning all the spotlights on. That role reversal experience would no doubt have figured in his response.
Rowley Avenue School principal Glenn Bermingham said the Christchurch school had noticed the number of children misbehaving increased in the last 15 minutes of the lunch break.
Teachers were reporting more incidences of conflict, and pupils not sharing and becoming irritable in those last 15 minutes.
Depends on their age. Once kids hit about 8 or 9, they’ve usually learned the value of sharing and cooperation. Some don’t learn for some time after that.
Adolf Fiinkensein oh, so is that why that American woman came all the way to NZ for a hip replacement ?
And oh, there bloke who told me about patients being tossed out of Yank hospitals after barely being stabilized was my GP who is a yank.
So when he states quote, he has seen patients being tossed out of hospitals after a heart attack and after barely being stabilized I would tend to believe him.
But a bit of bait and some yank system loving type wll always bite
Billyborker – why don’t you give it a rest on your crusade against Christianity. We know you don’t like it already. You are more religious in your zealotry than any religious kook I have ever met as far as pushing your ideology down everyone eles’s throat. I am an atheist. I don’t believe in imaginary friends in the sky but am aware that all of the history of Christianity – the good and the bad – has got us to the point where people like you and me can be atheists without getting burnt. Try having our lack of ‘faith’ in the Muslim world. We would be murdered.
The difference between Christians and atheists in this country is that Christians don’t think its open season on atheists and bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it.
Brian, my crusade, as you call it, is against all religion. We got “…to the point where people like you and me can be atheists without getting burnt. in spite of, not because of, christianity.
Richard
I don’t think he will as he is a coward and it is one thing in an email to a mate and another in public where it is live and real.
Besides which the Maori party won’t deal to him either as he has spoken what they do in private as they think like he does.
They don’t mind what he does in private as they can tut tut and appear in the middle ground, sensible people.
“..Depends on their age. Once kids hit about 8 or 9, they’ve usually learned the value of sharing and cooperation. Some don’t learn for some time after that…”
some never learn..
they grow up..and join act..
and the really greedy/dysfunctional ones..
join the cult that is the libertarian world-view..
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The difference between Christians and atheists in this country is that Christians don’t think its open season on atheists and bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it.
So that’s why I have this stream of atheists knocking on my door, my letterbox overflowing with atheist literature, people on street corners thrusting atheist tracts into my hands. that’s why the newspapers are full of letters special pleading that atheists should be given a seat at the high table in any “moral discussion”. Why atheists are campaigning to outlaw abortion and to force the teaching of atheism in schools and why atheists are lining up, cap in hand, for the government to fund schools solely for atheist pupils. Yeah, right.
Billy
That’s bollocks and you know it or you lie like a flat fish.
Without the civilising of society by Judeo-Christianity, it’s values and outlook atheism would never have got past first base.
Brian is correct you would have had your head chopped off long before now, in fact that Brit on youtube who rants just like you but more politely is probably on a list waiting to be dealt with when they take over blighty.
Murray’s got it bang on.
Billy you and your ilk are more religious than Tamaki and his lot you’re so shrill.
You’ll end up like Phool just glossed over and red pinged if you’re not careful.
“..# Murray (3845) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The difference between Christians and atheists in this country is that Christians don’t think its open season on atheists and bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it..”
you obviously have not seen the scratchings of k.k.k…
i mean..talk about those who ‘bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it..”
No Billy
They have taken over the MOE and and media and are thrusting it all down our throats that way.
Just a thought, right now the last 300 odd Jews are being spirited out of yemen because their safety cannot be guaranteed as the govt is apparently failing in the war against the extremists.
A community that has been there for 2000 years, forced to become refugees and I bet the atheists at theUN says nothing.
If Islam becomes the dominant religion here over atheism you will lose your head or have to go somewhere else.
I bow to you’re superior knowledge of white supremists phool.
My observation would be that plaid little weenie indoor whitebait irony impaired metal deficients like you are just their sort of recruit.
Look whats calling otehr people greedy and dysfunctional will you. Why don’t you shoot up and go hold up your local dairy phool. Give us all a break from your deranged drivel for a bit.
Philu – Hide’s apology was down to earth and sincere… Maybe Hone will have the common decency to wipe that arrogant look of his face whilst he lies to NZ about his disgusting behaviour (both missing the conference and his racist remarks against the anglo-saxon race).
BTW I do not completely forgive Rodney, he made a huge mistake, however his apology was a good start to repairing some of the damage caused.
Grumpyoldhori, that was not my experience in the US.
About 10 years ago on a trip around the US, my girlfriend fractured both arms when she ran and tripped over a speed-bump in a pub carpark of San Diego. We didn’t realise they were fractured until the next day.
The next day we took her to Scripps Clinic where they gave her excellent treatment. The initial form that gave us to complete was one page and had no payment info and didn’t even ask for a full address. After she had been treated they said we could leave. I said “how do we pay?” and they said don’t worry we’ll sort it out. So I said but you don’t even have our address. Oh, OK write your address (in the UK) at the bottom of the page.
That was it. Half a day of treatment. X-rays, scans, blood tests, arms slings etc and no one seemed to be interested whether we could pay or not, and it was obvious we were foreigners.
My girlfriend had travel insurance so when we were back in London, a bill for about $2k arrived a couple of months later. The insurance company paid it. We were surprised how cheap it was. Then about 4 months later another bill arrived for more than $20k (the first bill it seems was just for the x-rays). Getting that paid was a pain in the arse IIRC as the insurance company had closed off the claim.
Anyway the point of the story is that she got excellent treatment and no one was concerned that we might not be able to pay. In fact we could have left without giving them any info to track us down.
I also recall the insurance company were rubbish. Before we went to the hospital we called their emergency number to ask advice. Only they wouldn’t give any. Basically they said get the treatment you think you need, then make your claim and they will decide if it is acceptable. We were obviously worried as you hear about $100k hospital bills.
Yvette
The whole premise of the Copenhagen agreement is the “colonial wrongs”.
It is designed to transfer the money from the colonialists to the poor victims for the climate debt they owe them.
The monies will no doubt nto actually get into the hands of their people but will end up in Swiss bank accounts and be shared with their global warming mates through their Green businesses and NGO’s.
What would have happened without Christianity? It went through some horrendous phases of coercion and brutality and war and has been far from a model of morality throughout most of it’s existence. Would a continuation of paganism have been any better or worse?
billy – the people who bang on about god annoy me too – but you are just as bad in your zealotry. As far being opposed to all religions, I don’t see you going on about the Hari Krishnas (and come to think of it, the Greenpeace devotees for that matter) who get in my face on Lampton Quay far more than the old guy who stands outside Whitcoulls handing out his Christian tracts.
The monies will no doubt nto actually get into the hands of their people but will end up in Swiss bank accounts .
And car dealers will make a killing selling really big gas guzzling armoured Mercedes and BMWs to the despots who rule all those Third World countries who are getting money from ‘carbon debt’. This is nothing but communist income redistribution.
There are some very harsh words in that Editorial, it’s on the more extreme edge of my view, for all his faults my read is if he pulled his head in & got stuck into the work Rodney would be ok, but I do wonder if he’s now got the support to push through the Super City.
The key differences in Christianity to paganism, is the assertion that every soul was of equal value, that people had free will, that there were ‘laws’ that operated the universe that could be discovered, and that one should be suspicious about the concentration of power (cf. the breakdown in the House of David in the OT, the NT suspicion of Caesar).
These values were transmitted through the Church into some of the basic foundations of Western civilisation. If everyone is of equal value to God, then everyone should have the same individual human rights. The older Pagan systems of assigning lesser values to women or slaves could not be sustained. Likewise, scientific advances (often aided by Muslim discoveries) had much to do with the Church’s belief that they could discover ‘God’s rational design’ for the universe.
At an even baser level, the early assertion of family values (through opposition to infanticide) probably meant that Christianity had a broad appeal that cults like Magna Mater or Zorastrianism lacked.
Harawira’s apology today has to be addressed to all non maori in this country cause he seems to have covered the rest.
Here are the facts so far:
Harawira says in an email:
“White motherf…ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullshit.”
Then in reaction yesterday Harawira sends apologies to the maori party saying “I apologise unreservedly for any harm to the Maori Party caused by my choice of words in the recent email.”
Not just the maori party Harawira, come on say it to every kiwi otherwise you know what to do to your mother.
The older Pagan systems of assigning lesser values to women or slaves could not be sustained.
Slavery in Christian dominated societies dates to relatively recent history.
Lesser values to women date to even more recent history – and in fact with some fundamental religions it is still the case.
If Paganism had dominated for the last couple of thousand years it would have evolved too, it’s impossible to say how much for better and how much for worse – human nature being what it is it’s a good bet it would have been a mixture.
On the Facebook page for the Otago-University Students-Association, under a note entitled “Court finds Code of Conduct applicable to Toga Party” a current [outgoing, iirc] member of the committee published a detailed comment which I understood to mean that the executive had screwed up- and that the court case was decided on by the OUSA President alone.
Now there is a note: “Margi’s post has been removed – only temporarily, until the Exec has had a chance to get together for a chat about the outcome. There’s a meeting today…”
Just a reminder that open government isn’t part of compulsory student membership of student associations.
Philu – if Chthoniid wanted to take a photo of a parasitic slug I am sure he would be round your place in an instant. He is a guy who uses his skill with technology to produce breathtaking images of the natural world. Without kiwiblog you would have no reason to live. In my world that makes you one sad case.
@grumpyoldhori and others who imagine the American medical system is Satan’s spawn. I’m someone who turned up uninsured at an American hospital too sick to fill out forms and was admitted instantly for treatments, including surgery, that lasted through five days. When the hospital discovered I had no insurance, they sent round a team of people who specialised in finding alternative funding sources but never cut back on my treatment because I couldn’t pay a bill that rapidly climbed toward the six figure mark. They saved my life and gave me a year of out-patient followup, all without compensation. One of the reasons American medicine is so expensive is that hospitals routinely underwrite the costs of patients who, for one reason or another, cannot pay. All hospitals are required to provide emergency care, as well, without regard to whether the patient can pay. If a patient, insured or not, is discharged before being fit for discharge and suffers because of it, or dies, the hospital is fully open to malpractice lawsuits – and the cost of those is so high that no sane administrator would risk it.
Unfree labour has been the norm for human societies of all kinds Pete for centuries.
But it was the Christian-inspired campaigns in the West- the Livingstons, the Wilberforces etc (backed by the Royal Navy) that extinguished African slavery in the 1800s. And that carried forward trends that had eliminated various forms of domestic (white) slavery in the West beforehand.
I’m not sure that I get your point about lesser values of women and fundamentalist religion? Fundamental religions have come and died or softened (e.g. modern Baptists are fare more moderate than their original counterparts). But they don’t act as a transmission source for Western civilisation.
The ‘seeds’ of slavery’s destruction come about because of Christianities’ assertion of equal value to everyone (imperfectly and slowly transmitted)- but it is a core feature.
Paganism asserts that people are not equal- and that is a tenuous basis to make every body free and equal in society. It wasn’t Pagans that mobilised to end slavery.
LATEST: Maori Party MP Hone Harawira has apologised “for the poor choice of words” in his controversial email, but not the message.
Harawira has caused national outrage and upset his party with an inflammatory email which followed his skipping official business to go sight-seeing in Paris while on a taxpayer-funded junket.
“I do apologise,” he told Maori radio.
Speaking on Radio Waatea today Mr Harawira apologised for the “poor choice of words” and the offence they caused when he referred to Pakeha as “white motherf…ers”.
He should have instead referred to what European colonisers had done, he said. He accepted his language had damaged Maori-Pakeha relations and he apologised for demeaning women.
Pete
It really depends on your worldview doesn’t it?
Yes you’re last part appears to be mostly true but at the heart of it is the ability of the Holy Spirit to nudge people (based on your worldview)
Christendom’s broad position is only Judaism (thanks Ryan) and Christianity worshiped Yahweh/Jesus who was God.
All the others worshiped various gods created by Yahweh/Jesus and ultimately Satan who opposed God.
Therefore Christians as fickle (as they are/were) could be better influenced by God and hence society for the better.
This is one rationale as to why God chose the Jews an insignificant little people to represent Him and for He to work through as part of His plan for redemption of the whole world.
It is a message of Hope represented by the narative of Jesus through the OT and NT.
That is in a nutshell what the broad Christian worldview is.
Whether you believe it or not isn’t relevant, it does influence how you would answer or comment on your points.
You miss my point Chthoniid – if Paganism had maintained dominance through the last couple of millenia it is likely to have changed, and may have mobilised to extinguish slavery sooner or later. No way of knowing of course.
When you mention “every body is equal” it reminds me of both Christianity and communism, and Orwell – some become “more equal” than others. In the past under both communist and Christian regimes many have been far from free.
Our primary schools have become outrightly oppressive to boys. Kids as young as five are being bullied by teachers for natural boyish behaviour. These same teachers and their politically correct allies shouted against parents disciplining their children with a smack are using more cruel standover tactics against boys in particular.
Some of our schools are ntroducing elementary sex lessons (that is description of body parts etc) to children as young as five.
A the same time, teachers, now the core of the Labour Party, are manipulating MSM hacks into attacks on Education Minister Tolley for any reform she suggests. Teachers want to run the National Coalition’s education policy and leadership as well as run the whole of the Labour Party.
Pete I can understand you’re mixing up Christianity and Communism but see that as because of your own held beliefs/experiences perhaps?
Whereas I would tend to disagree with you on paganism as they wouldn’t have moved to the Christian “everyone’s of equal value” as they worshiped many different little gods and therefore would have had to become uniform in values, when they actually fought against each other.
The modern representative of paganism in the new age doesn’t give equal worth to everyone as Christianity did.
If you’re not a New Ager/Liberal/Pagan you aren’t of equal value until you become one.
If you’re not a New Ager/Liberal/Pagan you aren’t of equal value until you become one.
To some Christians and religions, the equality thing only applies if you follow the beliefs and practices they insist on – if you don’t toe the line I get the strong impression you are not looked on as equal.
Pete Sure, that may well be your perception but we are talking about the universal value itself and it’s origin not about the people on the ground.
Those Christians that operate like that aren’t following the universal maxim.
In Christendom no matter your choice of religion (including atheism) you are a person of worth to God and that is what drove Wilberforce et al to oppose slavery.
I get the point Pete. The argument though is specious. You’re arguing that there is some speculative reason why Paganism would have ‘jumped’ the development path. I can’t see any reason for asserting that such a jump was plausible.
Pre-European Maori culture was Pagan and slavery persisted for centuries. Slavery persisted in many cultures (Asia, Islamic Maghrib and NE) – with longer histories than it did in the West.
Throughout most of human history, people have lived in societies that are unfree. Challenging and changing that has taken time. And I think that one of the most important drivers of that, has been Christianity (from the Renaissance onwards).
Chthoniid makes interesting observations about Christianity and Western Civilisation in his 10.22 and 10.47 posts.
It seems to be a measure of the decline in Christianity’s influence in the West that there is now so little outcry or action against the widespread slavery that continues in forms like the many million child labour slaves of India; the Sudanese black children, Christian and naturist, enslaved into Arab families; and the scores of thousands of East European, Burmese, and other young women kidnapped (by violence or ploy) then trafficked in international prostitution. Some of these women have been brought to NZ with no whimper from the PC brigade or the milk-sops who appear to run much of what remains of mainstream Christianity.
While an ex-Stalinist activist like Keith Locke trumpets for NZ to take Asian would-be illegal migrants to Australia, he ignores the plight of modern slaves. This is in contrast to the outcries from the Christians who were the agitators in the West two centuries ago.
Pete also as Chthonlid commented.
Christianity didn’t have a worldview to take over the political realm in society but rather the Spiritual realm of individuals hearts and that would change their emotional/thinking and that would influence their structures.
That’s why Paul never said undo slavery but be the best slave you can be, it’s not that God (Christian) wasn’t concerned with it but wanted the individual hearts allegiance so he could work more fully through them.
If you read Wilberforce’s story it was a long process for him which is only lightly covered (IMO) in the film.
The idea of equality of souls in the West comes from Greek philosophy, from there went into Christian theology, then to Islamic theology, which kept Greek philosophy alive during the Christian dark ages, then back into Christian theology, then into Western liberal philosophy via the Renaissance and Enlightenment.
Sorry Ryan
That explains the breakdown of parts of Christianity certainly but it wasn’t the basis for Christianity’s values.
As we see today with the breakdown of the faith with the liberals.
Ryan Sproull at 11.24 says “which kept Greek philosophy alive during the Christian dark ages.”
It HELPED keep Greek philosophy alive Ryan. You’re forgetting about Byzantium, which didn’t fall until 1453. That collapse to the Muslims sent thousands of Greek-speaking intellectuals fleeing from Constaninople across Europe, sparking the Renaissance. Those refugees from Islam spread classical philosophy and the other intellectual disciplines.
Jack5 – that whole meme of Islam keeping greek philosphy alive during the dark ages is such crap. Everyone conveniently forgets that the Byzantium (in it’s own right and as heir to the Roman Empire) had kept that particular knowledge alive quite well for fifteen hundred years.
Grant, I have been following that post too! (Strong campaigner for VSM, especially for Otago) Darlow has alot of explaining to do… Very happy with the decision myself, bad case to test upon but regardless the students will pay no matter what. Liked your point about accountability! No way in hell you will find that in OUSA when the exec is pretty much a young labour meeting.
Brian Smaller says…..Without kiwiblog you would have no reason to live. In my world that makes you one sad case.
Well no doubt you seem to suffer from the Trougher Hide syndrome “Don’t do what I do do what I say”… Saying this to Phil when you have over 2000 posts of garbage poluting cyber space… I would suggest you don’t have a life..
No doubt Brian Smaller and Co believe they can solve the worlds problems by spending most of the day blogging posts!
In the words of Britains Chief Rabbi Lord Sacks ” Christains had learnt toleration, but only after 1000 yrs of “knocking the hell out of each other” all over Europe”
Of course the smart money would be on a Islam fundamentalist domination. After all Christianity hasn’t the spine to “fight the good fight” anymore. No doubt I can see many the ilk of Smaller and Co going with the tide if the pressure comes on, growing a beard, and of course a burka for the lady of the house?
wonder if DPF could have another blog for all those that want to argue the irrelevant. Yep I;m talking about all this religious stuff.
You all make Phool look God like.
Of course the smart money would be on a Islam fundamentalist domination. After all Christianity hasn’t the spine to “fight the good fight” anymore. No doubt I can see many the ilk of Smaller and Co going with the tide if the pressure comes on, growing a beard, and of course a burka for the lady of the house?
You moan about my comments then think I would have a bar of Islamism? You obviously haven’t read anything I have ever said about it. When we get our first pig on the farm I am naming it Mohammed.
“..who claims it has been deliberately underplaying a looming shortage for fear of triggering panic buying..
The senior official claims the US has played an influential role in encouraging the watchdog to underplay the rate of decline from existing oil fields while overplaying the chances of finding new reserves.
The allegations raise serious questions about the accuracy of the organisation’s latest World Energy Outlook on oil demand and supply to be published tomorrow –
- which is used by the British and many other governments to help guide their wider energy and climate change policies.
In particular they question the prediction in the last World Economic Outlook, believed to be repeated again this year ..
.. that oil production can be raised from its current level of 83m barrels a day to 105m barrels.
External critics have frequently argued that this cannot be substantiated by firm evidence ..
.. and say the world has already passed its peak in oil production.
Now the “peak oil” theory is gaining support at the heart of the global energy establishment.
“The IEA in 2005 was predicting oil supplies could rise as high as 120m barrels a day by 2030 although it was forced to reduce this gradually to 116m and then 105m last year,” said the IEA source ..
.. who was unwilling to be identified for fear of reprisals inside the industry.
“The 120m figure always was nonsense but even today’s number is much higher than can be justified .. and the IEA knows this.
“Many inside the organisation believe that maintaining oil supplies at even 90m to 95m barrels a day would be impossible ..
.. but there are fears that panic could spread on the financial markets .. if the figures were brought down further.
And the Americans fear the end of oil supremacy .. because it would threaten their power over access to oil resources,” he added.
A second senior IEA source, who has now left but was also unwilling to give his name ..
.. said a key rule at the organisation was that it was “imperative not to anger the Americans” ..
..but the fact was that there was not as much oil in the world as had been admitted.
“We have [already] entered the ‘peak oil’ zone.
I think that the situation is really bad,” he added..”
No doubt Brian Smaller and Co believe they can solve the worlds problems by spending most of the day blogging posts!
It’s really not that hard to write a blog post, so “most of the day”, no. And if you think blog posts are to solve the world’s problems, you’re right, no one could argue they serve any other purpose.
There are many supporters of the one size fits all monopoly health system that will continue to generate fear via misinformation because they have no idea what they are talking about. These people need to understand the difference between state funding and state provision. In socialist NZ we would rather people died on waiting lists than admit that our monopoly state provider model is a failure – let them think the model we have is great because there is precious little about socialism that they can feel proud about. Let them dream…
This “cock something up, get found out and apologise” routine which politicians engage in is pathetic.
If I were Harawira or Hide I would tell the NZ public to grow up and ‘get over themselves’ and refuse to apologise; they should stand by their actions and comments like men: “never complain, never explain” …(not acting like wussy girly-men)
Can anyone imagine Muldoon apologising for anything?
Brian Smaller said..”You moan about my comments then think I would have a bar of Islamism?” Maybe!
But many in early 1930′s Germany thought Adolf Hitler was a crackpot. Of course by the time the war started everyone one was in fancy dress and sieg hieling about the place, thinking Hitler was the saviour of the world! When Islam Fundamentalism does become the fashion of the West, I can see many of the christian “Born Again Brigade joining up with Islam. Saying in the end, well we believe in god thats all that matters! yer tell me about it! How many so called “Christains” of the West are out one the Battlefield of the Middle East? Oh I forgot they are waiting for someone else to fight that fight for them! Just keep the tidings coming and all will be OK?
While an ex-Stalinist activist like Keith Locke trumpets for NZ to take Asian would-be illegal migrants to Australia, he ignores the plight of modern slaves.
Labour put up a bill recently to prohibit imports made by slave labour. The Greens voted for it. National and ACT did not..
Brian, no point getting a scaled-down life-style block tractor. For the same money you could get a good used 50-60hp job (Kubota or Massey for e.g) which will do anything you want and will outlast you. Plus you’ll have usable power from the PTO (e.g. for rotary hoe).
Brian
Can I come help eat Him?
We’ll bring the beer and wine.
As long as the beer and wine are are haram (as opposed to halal), I am for it.
Brian, no point getting a scaled-down life-style block tractor. For the same money you could get a good used 50-60hp job (Kubota or Massey for e.g) which will do anything you want and will outlast you. Plus you’ll have usable power from the PTO (e.g. for rotary hoe).
I will wait and see exactly what I get. Don’t have a lot of acerage but it is good dirt. Grew up on a farm when I was young but this is new for me. Moving in December.
Burt is another expert that tops the polls as a poster!…. having little to do in life but hang out here …3571 posts Burt, Wow! Burt also believes he’s an expert on the US Health System! So with Brash out Hide found out as a trougher. The place is still running without the need of too much oil. You are lucky we didn’t get Brash/Hide in Burt the waiting lists would be twice as long, with Hospital wards filled with NZ war casualties. No doubt I could hear the squark of the muppet Hide ..Troops to fight the war on terror, Free Trade agreement with US. Tax Cut, Party Vote ACT!
Cadmus
I can understand your animus towards Churchianity, I share some of it with you too.
You’ve obviously read some of the NT or at least the bits about the falling away but have you read the Koran?
It is a book of war and conquest and hasn’t the delicate prose or introspection of the human condition you find in the OT & NT.
Sharia law which is the embodiment of life accepts only two classes of persons, Muslim (the umma) and the subjugated non-Muslims (Dhimmi).
What do you think you will be?
I ask this as you posit the taking over of NZ by Islam at some time as a possibility which would mean all on this thread would face that choice and I’m interested in your position, assuming you’re not going to run.
Brian
Name your favoured Beers and I’ll bring some good Chardonnay and Gewürztraminer.
If you BarBQ him I’ll happily cook up some side dishes (while we quaff) to complement whatever you do.
“Sharia law which is the embodiment of life accepts only two classes of persons, Muslim (the umma) and the subjugated non-Muslims (Dhimmi).”
How different is this to Christians (the chosen ones now, then die and have everlasting life) to con-compliers (looked down on now, then die and go straight to hell)? Each brand of Christianity seems to have it’s own sense of truth, raised importance and position in the scheme of things.
MIkeNZ – I will bear that in mind. I have to buy and grow Mohammed to eating size yet As an aside, I told my daughter that while it is not traditional to name animals you are going to eat (she wants to call a pig Sir Oinkalot) in Mohammed’s case, I’ll make an exception.
How different is this to Christians (the chosen ones now, then die and have everlasting life) to con-compliers (looked down on now, then die and go straight to hell)?
The difference is that the Christians nowadays don’t actively take measures to put you into the dead and go to hell category, whereas Islam is doing a fine job of that in all the places where they hold sway.
I agree that probably more Muslims than Christians are actively hastening the “going to hell” these days, but minorities of both still do it, or try to do it.
Have you read the Koran or are you going by what the Pastor told you???
If you “have” read the Koran, what Koran were you reading?
So I take it your believe the Koran is the Book of the Devil?
Have you spoke to a Muslum about their faith ?
Here is the theory as explained to me. Not the story you and your family are being scared by from “Pastor Pete”
OT, NT, Koran, All believe in Creation, Adam, EVe, Moses,The Ark, Jesus, Virgin Mary. and lots of other things.
Christianity blew it by power and money ! So lets get back to basics was the theory. A simple living shepard boy Mohummad was past the way to live life by God 500 or so yrs later. What your getting is the correct way to live life, via the word of god, the Koran.
You will find in someways the Koran have more in Common with the OT than any other writings. BTW..I’m not a follower of Islam or the Koran!
Brian
I cooked a whole sheep in a pit once (I’d made after reading a blokes cookbook with a hangi story in it, it was really an underground brick oven), it was fantastic stuffed with rice, lemons and herbs. We fed 40 odd people and the meat just came off the bone.
There’s nothing better than a roast with good company and some grog
I used to get baby piglets off of a piggery in Ottery (Cape Town) years ago for Braais, they would feed 15 odd people and we would have a great time sitting round the pool administering to them , drinking and playing pool games with the kids.
Possibly one of the few things I miss of South Africa, being able to invite people round for a BarBQ and know the weather would be fit for it!
Pete
Did you read anything I wrote earlier?
Sorry mate but duh! Are you’re letting your experience cloud the flow man???
A Christian shouldn’t treat anyone different because of who they are, Wilberforce didn’t as an example.
You obviously missed that bit of the NT. The writer Paul was very very clear on that point.
That some don’t behave like that means they are not abiding by the universal maxim that all are of equal worth.
Cadmus
Some parts of the Koran is OT verbatim almost.
I used to own a Koran but threw it out a while back as it’s all online as are the Hadiths (they are like the Christian commentaries and prayer books).
I have read the Koran since 1993 and have dipped into all of the five core Hadiths online (and on paper) as I initially wanted to see what the Judmentalists of both sides were saying.
I don’t read or speak Arabic and my use of Babelfish is useless for the task.
If you’re going to go down the piss take and emotional painting words path then this conversation ends.
Burt is another expert that tops the polls as a poster!…. having little to do in life but hang out here …3571 posts Burt, Wow!
So, Cadmus, what do you say about Philu – currently sitting on 6685 comments? If Burt has “little to do in life” – what does that comment tally say about Philu’s life?
Incidentally, there’s a technical distinction in the blogging world between “posts” and “comments”.
Mike, I read what you said about Paul. But I don’t think all Christians read that, or if they do they choose to ignore it. The message I often see and hear is “be like us to be equal with us”. I even see that between different groups of Christians “we are the ones that have got it right so we are the ones who will go to heaven”.
No, they are not my type of Christians, Joe. However, there is no denying the huge influence on Christianity on Western Civilisation, and overwhelmingly for the good.
You seem to be with Gibbon in thinking Christianity undermines Western civilisation, but the role of Christianity in the abolition of slavery gives the lie to this. (Apart from the inhumanity, slave labour produced weak economies, as the Confederates and Brazilians found. Slavery inhibits mechanisation and the drive for productivity. Incidentally, so does dirt cheap labour as NZ will find from the thousands of Islanders now coming annually to pick our grapes and fruit).
You can see the benefits of Christianity to our society when you look at who stands against booze barons and drug lords, and who ran campaigns against child labour and for women’s rights, still denied in many Muslim countries. In NZ, who runs the op. shops and food banks? I think it was a Presbyterian minister who stood up for the Chinese when they were treated appallingly on the Otago goldfields. For every aberration you cite, you can find scores of cases of admirable Christian behaviour.
There will always be flaws in a religion, but as humans we may be hard-wired to need religious belief. Better have a chiefly good religion like Christianity rather than voodoo with human sacrifices. When Christianity goes, often Marxism or fascism or some other “ism” replaces it, or a semi-Christian barbarism arises as in the African cases you cite, Joe.
You can hold against Christianity the pogroms of the Crusades and the witch hunts as churches persecuted remnants of the previous nativist religion, but such bizarre, cruel events also occur outside Christianity. Consider the Christchurch creche hysteria and injustice, still unresolved. Christianity didn’t drive that.
Yes that’s right, I have nothing better to do than comment here all day and do you know why that is ?
It’s because I’ve nothing to do now that I can’t find any politicians to who will do policies for cash deals. Without a corrupt self serving muppet in parliament I can’t donate $100k to a secret trust and get tax policy changes that make me millions – come back Cadmus, my revenue flow misses you and the helicopter is always available your when you need it to big note yourself around you 2 or 3 remaining senile supporters.
BTW; have you been pissed up in a backbencher lately? The urinals have a bigger sign on them now which should make it easier to distinguish them from the fireplaces.
Trying to understand modern Islamic societies via the Quran is like trying to understand the modern Papacy via the Bible. It’s impossible when you avoid the meetings, councils, religious discussions and evolution of doctrine.
The NT was quite clear that Christians couldn’t serve in the army and kill others. The doctrine of a just war wasn’t spelled out in the Bible. That came later.
Similarly, many Sunni sects became increasingly moderate- as doctrine had to be justified with reference to the interpretation of the community. Wahibists get around this by narrowly defining who in the community can interpret this, but this sect is very much a medieval throwback. Once Muslim communities get a bit of education and economic power, they tend to moderate quickly. It’s no surprise that it is the dark, poor corners of the Muslim world where fanaticism has the deepest hold.
The wahhabists, who were active in South Asia even in Kipling’s day, may be creating hell in poor corners of the Muslim world Chthoniid (3.30) but a lot of the finance for them apparently comes from rich Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the Wahibist state in the NE however, and its wealth hasn’t developed out of an emergent, educated middle class. Not exactly in the same position as say, Malaysia..
Mike, I read what you said about Paul. But I don’t think all Christians read that, or if they do they choose to ignore it. The message I often see and hear is “be like us to be equal with us”. I even see that between different groups of Christians “we are the ones that have got it right so we are the ones who will go to heaven”.
I think you sometimes misinterpret the intentions of even Biblically sound Christians, Pete.
‘We’ don’t want you, or anyone else for that matter, to “be like us” simply so that you become a card carrying member of our ‘club’. Most Biblical Christians simply espouse what the Bible says in regards to obtaining salvation. And reflect that while God is a God of love, He is also a God of justice; perfect love requires perfect justice. Our motives, if sound, spring from a desire that as many as possible would repent of their sins and receive Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Not so that you increase ‘our’ number, but so that you might be spared from the consequences of NOT receiving Christ; thereby having to suffer for your sins personally rather than allowing Christ to suffer in your sted.
No one is born a Christian; we become a Christian upon receiving Christ.
One of my motives in sharing God’s love as revealed in the gospel of Christ, is firstly an expression of my love and graditude to God for saving me, and is secondly an expression of my love for my fellow man in the knowledge of their eternal destiny if they DO NOT receive Christ.
Not being a Christian makes you no less valuable in God’s sight.
Christ died for the sins of ALL men; His love is extended to ALL.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Pete
you are correct in that is what some do but that is them not the underlying value.
Judge them by all means not the value/body.
I get embarrassed at Tamaki and others but they are not Christianity nor God
You’ll find that the NT also calls those who profess to follow Him to judge them selves to see if they are in the faith.
That would mean that allegience of heart and therefore a lifestyle of moving towards Their God.
It is a journey.
Chthoniid
“Trying to understand modern Islamic societies via the Quran is like trying to understand the modern Papacy via the Bible. It’s impossible when you avoid the meetings, councils, religious discussions and evolution of doctrine.
The NT was quite clear that Christians couldn’t serve in the army and kill others. The doctrine of a just war wasn’t spelled out in the Bible. That came later.”
You raise a hoary issue and I would ask for clarification from you.
In what way is the modern papacy different from the old papacy in that it appears to be a separate religion/sect from NT Christianity and many of it’s core practices reflect values and heart positions that contradict the NT still today as centuries ago?
Where in the NT does Jesus or Paul state you shouldn’t be in the army?
Jesus never said such to the centurion rather he commended his faith to others, of all the times/places in the NT there is the perfect place to put such a thing, why is it not there?
In another place after His resurrection he asked the disciples how many swords they had, He never said do not use them did He?
As for just war, it wasn’t was it, can you imagine Joshua’s take on that?
Kris K – Not being a Christian makes you no less valuable in God’s sight.
Christ died for the sins of ALL men; His love is extended to ALL.
So why will god burn me in hell if you’re right and I’m wrong?
Ultimately, Billy, we all choose our own destiny.
God makes the offer – you either accept or reject it.
Your decision determines your final destination – it really is that simple.
I have hope that, as Chthoniid suggests, the numbers who use religion badly whether they be Christians in Kenya or Muslims in Somalia or Afghanistan will reduce with better education and quality of life. Putting them down is more likely to keep them down, encouraging them up won’t always work but it will help improvement.
I don’t have a problem with Christians (or others) using their religion to aspire to and work towards being better people, and to have better communities. But I’d like to see some acceptance from them that others can follow a similar path towards a better good without having to share the exact same beliefs, or even similar beliefs. Goodness and morality does not have to depend on one’s particular belief system.
Disagreeing on some particular points of morality needs to be accepted, sometimes you have to go with majority wishes and with laws.
Rubbishing and writing someone off because of their religious or non-religious beliefs or because of their political leanings seems to be common, and it can be very negative and destructive.
Shouldn’t we all learn to work in a similar direction with acceptable differences?
So Kris K, can you answer the question, or not? If god loves me and I don’t love him, why should I be punished? Will he slash me 300 times witha fruit knife before I burn in hell? Why can’t he just move on?
Pete
All you say has merit and from the point of view of being a physical person in this world, yes what you say makes sense.
Christianity has never been about being better citizens and never will be. It is not a religion of works.
That is the obscenity of the cross.
It is one reason Jesus is so hated, the cross makes status, education, wealth, Good works irrelevant.
What it is about your heart allegiance.
Where does it belong? towards Jesus or Yahweh through Jesus.?
I must be clear here not the AOG, Anglicans or Roman Catholic church but God Yahweh/Jesus.
That is why Christians are vilified all over the world, because ultimately it isn’t about being a good person but who is your heart given too. It is about Jesus.
That is the core of where your heart is in your message, if you are honest and look at your last comment and where it’s root is.
I make no judgment on you I just want you to be honest with me.
“..Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, a new BBC poll has found widespread dissatisfaction with free-market capitalism.
In the global poll for the BBC World Service, only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it was working well.
Most thought regulation and reform of the capitalist system were necessary.
There were also sharp divisions around the world on whether the end of the Soviet Union was a good thing.
In 1989, as the Berlin Wall fell, it was a victory for ordinary people across Eastern and Central Europe.
It also looked at the time like a crushing victory for free-market capitalism.
Twenty years on, this new global poll suggests confidence in free markets has taken heavy blows from the past 12 months of financial and economic crisis.
More than 29,000 people in 27 countries were questioned.
In only two countries, the United States and Pakistan, did more than one in five people feel that capitalism works well as it stands.
Almost a quarter – 23% of those who responded – feel it is fatally flawed.
That is the view of 43% in France, 38% in Mexico and 35% in Brazil.
And there is very strong support around the world for governments to distribute wealth more evenly.
That is backed by majorities in 22 of the 27 countries.
If there is one issue where a global consensus seems to emerge from the survey it is this:..
.. there are majorities almost everywhere wanting government to be more active in regulating business..”
Billy
If you didn’t care in some place deep down in your heart you wouldn’t keep asking this. But you do, hence you keep bringing it up again and again.
That will be part of your hell as some place deep inside of you you know God exists and He cares for you and when there is absolutely no chance that you will be in His presence it will be too late.
and you will know it has been your choice.
Have you honestly read the NT and thought through who Jesus is/was/spoke about himself?
“And there is very strong support around the world for governments to distribute wealth more evenly. That is backed by majorities in 22 of the 27 countries.”
Words of wisdom coming from nothing less than a professional bludger, who must be having a quiet day to have the cheek to write tripe like that.
So Kris K, can you answer the question, or not? If god loves me and I don’t love him, why should I be punished? Will he slash me 300 times witha fruit knife before I burn in hell? Why can’t he just move on?
Sigh.
If you hate God, and despise everything about Him, why SHOULD He permit you to be in His presence?
There are only two final locations you can be placed, Billy:
• The new heavens and earth – the new Creation – will only have in residence those who are God’s children; the heirs of salvation.
• Those who reject the offer of salvation are not able to reside in God’s presence; God cannot tolerate sin. The only place outside of God’s presence is the Lake of Fire – prepared for Satan and his fallen angels. This place was never intended for man, but by rejecting salvation this is the only place available which is outside of God’s presence.
There is no third option.
Your sin MUST be paid one way or another:
• You either pay for it yourself (in hell).
• Or you permit Christ to pay for your sins (on the cross).
I make no judgment on you I just want you to be honest with me.
Ok. I don’t believe in God or gods. I’ve had no indication that anything like that exists, and my “logic” suggests to me that most likely it/he/they don’t.
I understand I have grown up in a society with a strong Christian influence. I believe I share many of the positive attributes and morality of Christianity. I don’t believe positive Christian influences are confined to Christianity, there have been many good non-Christians and non-Christian societies.
I don’t see why I can’t be as good a person as anyone with religious beliefs while keeping my own non-religious beliefs.
I don’t see any point in trying to get everyone to follow the same beliefs, that will never happen.
I think religious (of different types) and non-religious people, and lefties and middlies and righties, and lighties and darkies, and poories and richies, and easties and westies, should all be trying to work with a common purpose towards a better good and accept that people will always be different and have different beliefs.
If you don’t like what I write then you’re more than welcome to do what I do when confronted with your spam – spin that scroll wheel.
And everything I say I believe I can substantiate from God’s word.
If other Christians have a problem with what I say then they will no doubt hold me to task.
If you have a problem … well it’s your problem, and given your past anti Christian rants I feel no obligation in justifying myself to you in any way, shape, or form.
… and your opinion of what makes a “good Christian” would be seriously suspect, and bare little resemblance to that of the Biblical description.
There is nothing wrong with the free market when it is a free market without bloody bankers and politicians distorting it.
At least we in NZ no longer believe in the SMP game, it is a bloody pity that other countries do not follow us in trade.
Bankers should be there to supply the money needed not to game the system to put obscene amounts in their pockets.
It is a joke the number of countries who pay mouth service to free trade while handing over fat subsidies to what they call farmers, they are not farmers,the fuckers are on welfare.
Making a good living off twenty cows in Europe, bloody hell.
Just dropped in to sing the magpie song but seems like billy and phil are forming an unholy alliance against the christians. Think I’ll fuck off till after dinner.
You just cut-n-paste bits and pieces that any google search could find and then slag people off when they don’t agree with your idol de-jour. What more is there to say than – thank you, now let some others express their own opinions and their own analysis because until they do (write it down on a blog) I can’t find it in google searches to be a prat like you.
# MikeNZ at 5:07 pm Thanks for the first sentence, it’s all that counts.
Why? Does that allow you to put me in a pigeonhole and nothing else I believe in matters? Or did you just want to know what angle I was coming from? I don’t get why that is all that counts, believer or not.
If you hadn’t noticed I was an observer of the religious discussions and have contributed absolutely nothing to it to date. You now demanding my analysis just proves you were not, and still are not, paying attention to the debate you seemed to be participating in.
General Debate today seems to have turned into the religious forum.
Why don’t you devil dodgers and god botherers take it to a chat room?
One person mentions religion and away you go. FFS it is Tuesday and some have no work to do?
Public Servants, see you all at 9am sharp ok
Made me lol that Hussein referred the fall of the Berlin Wall back to HIM, as though he’s the centre of the Universe (though he likes to think that he is).
Maybe we should have renamed it the Obama Wall, that way he would have gone to Germany for the celebrations.
was it ‘cos i posted those kick-arse whale photos..?
(did that make you feel inferior..?..)
Let me see:
- Chthoniid takes his own photos – high-quality and interesting.
- You, on the other hand, didn’t post kick-arse whale photos; you merely posted a link to photos someone else had taken. That makes you a copy-and-paste merchant – definitely inferior.
Let me get this straight. Is there an ‘Edit” button somewhere that if its pushed all 6699 of phools posts disappear.
If that is so I will push it. Just tell me where to find it!
Since it’s clear that the Science Isn’t Settled, I thought it must therefore be something else. Herewith some suggestions:
The science is amiss
The science is bollocks
The science is canard
The science is dishonest
The science is evasive
The science is fraudulent
The science is garbage
The science is hyperbole
The science is incorrect
The science is junk
The science is kleptomania
The science is junk
The science is mistaken
The science is non-existent
The science is odious
The science is placeboic
The science is quackery
The science is refuse
The science is shameful
The science is truth-free
The science is unethical
The science is vacuous
The science is womby
The science is xerotripic
The science is yonderly
The science is zoocytium
Pete
I do apologise i was doing two things at once and had to leave.
I thought I’d said that your first sentence made sense of the rest that you’d written.
But I see I just wrote the first bit and didn’t the second or changed to email and log off.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:18 am
As we rapidly approach the American festival of Thanksgiving, Turkey’s lining up to join the illeducated, illinformed and illbred seppos in their delusions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/07/AR2009110702233.html?hpid=topnews
“Why I’m so interested in seeing creationism succeed in Turkey is that evolution is an evil concept that has done such damage to society,” said Morris, a Christian who has led several searches for Noah’s Ark in eastern Turkey. Members of his group have addressed Turkish conferences numerous times.
Oh yes, learning about origins and finding god didn’t do it is so, evil. Not like the love and light of god’s children who rape, pillage and plunder in his name. Can’t have children a larnin’, they might find out that all this death and destruction in the name of religion is immoral.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Seems like that guy has more on his mind than worshiping god, I do hope god throws a lightning bolt at his Arse.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:33 am
More hateful anti God rhetoric fugley. Yawn, what a sad case you are !!
November 10th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Its OK, dad, you can leave the darkness and walk in to the light with the rest of humanity. You will be welcomed here if you will just cast the mote from your eye and see the world as it truly is. beautiful. Awe inspiring. God free.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:35 am
A question people, if a yank over here without insurance has a heart attack and needs an operation, should we operate and send a bill or do as yank hospitals do with those without the right insurance, just stabilise them and chuck them out ?
November 10th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Twenty years since the fall of the Berlin wall.
Never forget that this is the system advocated by Keith Locke, Sue Bradford and that pompous sponger Professor Jane Kelsey.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:48 am
obama needs to do what gorbachev did..
he needs to ‘tear-down’/dismantle the american empire..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 8:52 am
..looking forward to racist golly wog hawawira’s genuine apology today…tui billboard…
November 10th, 2009 at 8:55 am
yeah..his apology will be as sincere as the one from hide..eh..?
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/comment-whoarapologies-are-meaningless/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Phuck off philu
November 10th, 2009 at 9:00 am
I’m with Phil on this. Why would anyone expect Hori to be any more genuine than Hide in anything other than being caught a la Dover Samuels?
November 10th, 2009 at 9:04 am
harawiras mummy has said that ” hone has nothing to apologise for and that most maori think like hone..they have got , and are getting a raw deal “…how much is enough ??? How much settlement dosh is enough !!! How many times does the white man have to apologise ??!!! Go fuck yourself Titiwhai and any other maori that thinks like that.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:06 am
grumpy, if you are going to come along here, spouting your rabid anti-everything American, you might get your facts right.
I sent a copy of your comment to my doctor. Here’s the reply. You will not like it.
“What the yanks would call “stabilise” would probably be everything that NZ would do anyway. Legally they are obliged to provide emergency care. Similarly, if you had appendicitis, they would take out your appendix, regardless of your ability to pay. But they would do it in the cheapest way possible and would kick you out of hospital at the earliest possible moment.
Kind of like here, actually.”
November 10th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Citation needed, especially for Kelsey.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Another day, another former government minister being quizzed on the granting of a Visa to a crime figure. Seems a big chunk of money was donated to the party to help fund their failed re-election campaign in exchange for preventing deportation and granting a Visa.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:13 am
As part of my community service a la Mikey Havoc, I listened to Jim “I Have Some Right Wing Friends” Mora, Mark Inglis and some old trout with a tenuous connection to the National Party yesterday.
Inglis raised a very good point. He had been in Rarotonga and there was a Sevens tournament on. A team from Queenstown had raised $30,000 to get there and all appeared to be athletes.
Another team was there representing the NZ Parliament. I wonder how many were MPs, and whether or not they took their spouses?
Inglis said that he thought it was pretty sad a team of troughing unfit sods could get sponsored by SKY/Air NZ while a team of fit chaps with a penchant for footy had to hold sausage sizzles to get there.
I have to agree with him. I’ll bet if the question was ever raised, you’d have some moron like Mallard trotting out the “we had important business in the Cook Islands as well as the rugby”.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:19 am
I see Comrade Locke thinks it would be a good idea if NZ took the Sri Lankan terrorists in as refugee’s.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Can’t we just send Locke to them?
Win win.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:24 am
I see the pope has called on the faithful for a “prayer vigil” for siamese twins. Why the fuck does he think god would care about the prayers, after all, it must have been his god’s will that caused the problem. Why would he change his mind?
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26327723-5006301,00.html
Meanwhile, long sufferring taxpayers get bled again. Why not just let them die and fulfuill god’s will?
November 10th, 2009 at 9:26 am
I see Comrade Locke thinks it would be a good idea if HE took the Sri Lankan terrorists in as refugee’s…AT HIS HOUSE..
November 10th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Deborah Coddington made an interesting comment on Hide last night – she pointed out that last week Hide would have discovered how it feels being under intense media glare, compared to the past when he was often active in turning all the spotlights on. That role reversal experience would no doubt have figured in his response.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:34 am
More communism from our left-wing schoolteachers:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/3046898/Schools-halve-lunch-break-and-get-better-behaviour
So “not sharing” equals “bad behaviour”?
November 10th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Depends on their age. Once kids hit about 8 or 9, they’ve usually learned the value of sharing and cooperation. Some don’t learn for some time after that.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:44 am
You forget Colonel, they have no concept of property rights, it’s all theirs to dole out to whomever in the name of fairness.
After all the comment relatively unsupervised says it all about the lunch period.
Whatever happened to the good old dinner ladies we had in my youth?
November 10th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Here’s what the great statesman and moral bridge builder Hone Harawira will say this afternoon in his ‘apology’:
Hone walks in:
“Tena koutou,
Stuff you all you bunch of white (expletive, expletive, expletive, racist invective, expletive, racist invective, racist invective, expletive)!
E noho ra”
Hone walks out.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Adolf Fiinkensein oh, so is that why that American woman came all the way to NZ for a hip replacement ?
And oh, there bloke who told me about patients being tossed out of Yank hospitals after barely being stabilized was my GP who is a yank.
So when he states quote, he has seen patients being tossed out of hospitals after a heart attack and after barely being stabilized I would tend to believe him.
But a bit of bait and some yank system loving type wll always bite
November 10th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Billyborker – why don’t you give it a rest on your crusade against Christianity. We know you don’t like it already. You are more religious in your zealotry than any religious kook I have ever met as far as pushing your ideology down everyone eles’s throat. I am an atheist. I don’t believe in imaginary friends in the sky but am aware that all of the history of Christianity – the good and the bad – has got us to the point where people like you and me can be atheists without getting burnt. Try having our lack of ‘faith’ in the Muslim world. We would be murdered.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The difference between Christians and atheists in this country is that Christians don’t think its open season on atheists and bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Brian, my crusade, as you call it, is against all religion. We got “…to the point where people like you and me can be atheists without getting burnt. in spite of, not because of, christianity.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Richard
I don’t think he will as he is a coward and it is one thing in an email to a mate and another in public where it is live and real.
Besides which the Maori party won’t deal to him either as he has spoken what they do in private as they think like he does.
They don’t mind what he does in private as they can tut tut and appear in the middle ground, sensible people.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:55 am
“..Depends on their age. Once kids hit about 8 or 9, they’ve usually learned the value of sharing and cooperation. Some don’t learn for some time after that…”
some never learn..
they grow up..and join act..
and the really greedy/dysfunctional ones..
join the cult that is the libertarian world-view..
phil(whoar.co.nz(
November 10th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Murray (3845) Vote: 0 0 Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The difference between Christians and atheists in this country is that Christians don’t think its open season on atheists and bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it.
So that’s why I have this stream of atheists knocking on my door, my letterbox overflowing with atheist literature, people on street corners thrusting atheist tracts into my hands. that’s why the newspapers are full of letters special pleading that atheists should be given a seat at the high table in any “moral discussion”. Why atheists are campaigning to outlaw abortion and to force the teaching of atheism in schools and why atheists are lining up, cap in hand, for the government to fund schools solely for atheist pupils. Yeah, right.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Jesus loves you Billy, the rest of us think you’re asshole though.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Billy
That’s bollocks and you know it or you lie like a flat fish.
Without the civilising of society by Judeo-Christianity, it’s values and outlook atheism would never have got past first base.
Brian is correct you would have had your head chopped off long before now, in fact that Brit on youtube who rants just like you but more politely is probably on a list waiting to be dealt with when they take over blighty.
Murray’s got it bang on.
Billy you and your ilk are more religious than Tamaki and his lot you’re so shrill.
You’ll end up like Phool just glossed over and red pinged if you’re not careful.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:58 am
“..# Murray (3845) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The difference between Christians and atheists in this country is that Christians don’t think its open season on atheists and bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it..”
you obviously have not seen the scratchings of k.k.k…
i mean..talk about those who ‘bang on incestantly and in a most tedious fashion about it..”
k.k.k’s yr man..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Phool, there are easier ways to confess that you are a spiteful, parasitic fuckwit with no real friends.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
No Billy
They have taken over the MOE and and media and are thrusting it all down our throats that way.
Just a thought, right now the last 300 odd Jews are being spirited out of yemen because their safety cannot be guaranteed as the govt is apparently failing in the war against the extremists.
A community that has been there for 2000 years, forced to become refugees and I bet the atheists at theUN says nothing.
If Islam becomes the dominant religion here over atheism you will lose your head or have to go somewhere else.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
He did mention incidences of conflict & irritability too, those words seem to have escaped you.
And how does this make him a communist exactly?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:01 am
I bow to you’re superior knowledge of white supremists phool.
My observation would be that plaid little weenie indoor whitebait irony impaired metal deficients like you are just their sort of recruit.
Look whats calling otehr people greedy and dysfunctional will you. Why don’t you shoot up and go hold up your local dairy phool. Give us all a break from your deranged drivel for a bit.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Hone ripped off taxpayers, and justifies it by invoking colonial wrongs, but are there no Maori taxpayers?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Philu – Hide’s apology was down to earth and sincere… Maybe Hone will have the common decency to wipe that arrogant look of his face whilst he lies to NZ about his disgusting behaviour (both missing the conference and his racist remarks against the anglo-saxon race).
BTW I do not completely forgive Rodney, he made a huge mistake, however his apology was a good start to repairing some of the damage caused.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Oh those evil colonials who destroyed Maori culture by ending slavery and cannibalism while increasing the life expectancy.
Bad bad naughty colonials.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Grumpyoldhori, that was not my experience in the US.
About 10 years ago on a trip around the US, my girlfriend fractured both arms when she ran and tripped over a speed-bump in a pub carpark of San Diego. We didn’t realise they were fractured until the next day.
The next day we took her to Scripps Clinic where they gave her excellent treatment. The initial form that gave us to complete was one page and had no payment info and didn’t even ask for a full address. After she had been treated they said we could leave. I said “how do we pay?” and they said don’t worry we’ll sort it out. So I said but you don’t even have our address. Oh, OK write your address (in the UK) at the bottom of the page.
That was it. Half a day of treatment. X-rays, scans, blood tests, arms slings etc and no one seemed to be interested whether we could pay or not, and it was obvious we were foreigners.
My girlfriend had travel insurance so when we were back in London, a bill for about $2k arrived a couple of months later. The insurance company paid it. We were surprised how cheap it was. Then about 4 months later another bill arrived for more than $20k (the first bill it seems was just for the x-rays). Getting that paid was a pain in the arse IIRC as the insurance company had closed off the claim.
Anyway the point of the story is that she got excellent treatment and no one was concerned that we might not be able to pay. In fact we could have left without giving them any info to track us down.
I also recall the insurance company were rubbish. Before we went to the hospital we called their emergency number to ask advice. Only they wouldn’t give any. Basically they said get the treatment you think you need, then make your claim and they will decide if it is acceptable. We were obviously worried as you hear about $100k hospital bills.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Another day, another former government minister being quizzed on the granting of a Visa to a crime figure.
who is it ??
November 10th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Yvette
The whole premise of the Copenhagen agreement is the “colonial wrongs”.
It is designed to transfer the money from the colonialists to the poor victims for the climate debt they owe them.
The monies will no doubt nto actually get into the hands of their people but will end up in Swiss bank accounts and be shared with their global warming mates through their Green businesses and NGO’s.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:09 am
but are there no Maori taxpayers?
unfortunately no
November 10th, 2009 at 10:11 am
What would have happened without Christianity? It went through some horrendous phases of coercion and brutality and war and has been far from a model of morality throughout most of it’s existence. Would a continuation of paganism have been any better or worse?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:11 am
billy – the people who bang on about god annoy me too – but you are just as bad in your zealotry. As far being opposed to all religions, I don’t see you going on about the Hari Krishnas (and come to think of it, the Greenpeace devotees for that matter) who get in my face on Lampton Quay far more than the old guy who stands outside Whitcoulls handing out his Christian tracts.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:14 am
clintoiid..did you say you are a teacher..?
and..what is a ‘real friend’..?..there clintoiid..?
what are the benchmarks..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 10:15 am
And car dealers will make a killing selling really big gas guzzling armoured Mercedes and BMWs to the despots who rule all those Third World countries who are getting money from ‘carbon debt’. This is nothing but communist income redistribution.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:19 am
“..Captain Neurotic (15) Vote: Add rating 4 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Philu – Hide’s apology was down to earth and sincere…”
hah..!
who’s the gullible sucker then..?
wanna buy a bridge..?
(i’ll be really ‘sincere’..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Aren’t you late for a meeting with your parole officer?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:21 am
What does everyone else think of the herald editorial on Hide ? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10608280
There are some very harsh words in that Editorial, it’s on the more extreme edge of my view, for all his faults my read is if he pulled his head in & got stuck into the work Rodney would be ok, but I do wonder if he’s now got the support to push through the Super City.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Kris, thanks for your reply yesterday. I will reply on here later today.
cheers
Malcolm
November 10th, 2009 at 10:22 am
The key differences in Christianity to paganism, is the assertion that every soul was of equal value, that people had free will, that there were ‘laws’ that operated the universe that could be discovered, and that one should be suspicious about the concentration of power (cf. the breakdown in the House of David in the OT, the NT suspicion of Caesar).
These values were transmitted through the Church into some of the basic foundations of Western civilisation. If everyone is of equal value to God, then everyone should have the same individual human rights. The older Pagan systems of assigning lesser values to women or slaves could not be sustained. Likewise, scientific advances (often aided by Muslim discoveries) had much to do with the Church’s belief that they could discover ‘God’s rational design’ for the universe.
At an even baser level, the early assertion of family values (through opposition to infanticide) probably meant that Christianity had a broad appeal that cults like Magna Mater or Zorastrianism lacked.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Harawira’s apology today has to be addressed to all non maori in this country cause he seems to have covered the rest.
Here are the facts so far:
Harawira says in an email:
“White motherf…ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullshit.”
Then in reaction yesterday Harawira sends apologies to the maori party saying “I apologise unreservedly for any harm to the Maori Party caused by my choice of words in the recent email.”
Not just the maori party Harawira, come on say it to every kiwi otherwise you know what to do to your mother.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:27 am
“..# Chthoniid (669) Vote: Add rating 7 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Phool, there are easier ways to confess that you are a spiteful, parasitic fuckwit with no real friends..”
wot..?
just go and hang on your own..with animals/birds..and a camera..?
and seek/pander for your approval..
from the knuckledraggers on kiwiblog..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Slavery in Christian dominated societies dates to relatively recent history.
Lesser values to women date to even more recent history – and in fact with some fundamental religions it is still the case.
If Paganism had dominated for the last couple of thousand years it would have evolved too, it’s impossible to say how much for better and how much for worse – human nature being what it is it’s a good bet it would have been a mixture.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:37 am
On the Facebook page for the Otago-University Students-Association, under a note entitled “Court finds Code of Conduct applicable to Toga Party” a current [outgoing, iirc] member of the committee published a detailed comment which I understood to mean that the executive had screwed up- and that the court case was decided on by the OUSA President alone.
Now there is a note: “Margi’s post has been removed – only temporarily, until the Exec has had a chance to get together for a chat about the outcome. There’s a meeting today…”
Just a reminder that open government isn’t part of compulsory student membership of student associations.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Philu – if Chthoniid wanted to take a photo of a parasitic slug I am sure he would be round your place in an instant. He is a guy who uses his skill with technology to produce breathtaking images of the natural world. Without kiwiblog you would have no reason to live. In my world that makes you one sad case.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:41 am
And how does this make him a communist exactly?
We’ll find out after the morning tea bell brings’im back in off the playground.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:42 am
@grumpyoldhori and others who imagine the American medical system is Satan’s spawn. I’m someone who turned up uninsured at an American hospital too sick to fill out forms and was admitted instantly for treatments, including surgery, that lasted through five days. When the hospital discovered I had no insurance, they sent round a team of people who specialised in finding alternative funding sources but never cut back on my treatment because I couldn’t pay a bill that rapidly climbed toward the six figure mark. They saved my life and gave me a year of out-patient followup, all without compensation. One of the reasons American medicine is so expensive is that hospitals routinely underwrite the costs of patients who, for one reason or another, cannot pay. All hospitals are required to provide emergency care, as well, without regard to whether the patient can pay. If a patient, insured or not, is discharged before being fit for discharge and suffers because of it, or dies, the hospital is fully open to malpractice lawsuits – and the cost of those is so high that no sane administrator would risk it.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:42 am
george soros sez ‘capitalism is broken’..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/george-soros-reckons-that-capitalism-is-broken-but-he-has-a-plan/
November 10th, 2009 at 10:46 am
“..Aren’t you late for a meeting with your parole officer?..”
oh..!..it’s been ages/decades since i had one of them..
and..shouldn’t you be getting your (middle-ages) soldiers suits/wooden toys out..?
..so you can do your dress-ups..?
and play war/soldiers..?
(b.t.w..do you still look like friar tuck..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Unfree labour has been the norm for human societies of all kinds Pete for centuries.
But it was the Christian-inspired campaigns in the West- the Livingstons, the Wilberforces etc (backed by the Royal Navy) that extinguished African slavery in the 1800s. And that carried forward trends that had eliminated various forms of domestic (white) slavery in the West beforehand.
I’m not sure that I get your point about lesser values of women and fundamentalist religion? Fundamental religions have come and died or softened (e.g. modern Baptists are fare more moderate than their original counterparts). But they don’t act as a transmission source for Western civilisation.
The ‘seeds’ of slavery’s destruction come about because of Christianities’ assertion of equal value to everyone (imperfectly and slowly transmitted)- but it is a core feature.
Paganism asserts that people are not equal- and that is a tenuous basis to make every body free and equal in society. It wasn’t Pagans that mobilised to end slavery.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:48 am
15 minutes ago
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3046737/Hone-Harawira-apologises-for-email-language
LATEST: Maori Party MP Hone Harawira has apologised “for the poor choice of words” in his controversial email, but not the message.
Harawira has caused national outrage and upset his party with an inflammatory email which followed his skipping official business to go sight-seeing in Paris while on a taxpayer-funded junket.
“I do apologise,” he told Maori radio.
Speaking on Radio Waatea today Mr Harawira apologised for the “poor choice of words” and the offence they caused when he referred to Pakeha as “white motherf…ers”.
He should have instead referred to what European colonisers had done, he said. He accepted his language had damaged Maori-Pakeha relations and he apologised for demeaning women.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Lucretius (99 BC – 55 BC) had a few things to say about religion.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Pete
It really depends on your worldview doesn’t it?
Yes you’re last part appears to be mostly true but at the heart of it is the ability of the Holy Spirit to nudge people (based on your worldview)
Christendom’s broad position is only Judaism (thanks Ryan) and Christianity worshiped Yahweh/Jesus who was God.
All the others worshiped various gods created by Yahweh/Jesus and ultimately Satan who opposed God.
Therefore Christians as fickle (as they are/were) could be better influenced by God and hence society for the better.
This is one rationale as to why God chose the Jews an insignificant little people to represent Him and for He to work through as part of His plan for redemption of the whole world.
It is a message of Hope represented by the narative of Jesus through the OT and NT.
That is in a nutshell what the broad Christian worldview is.
Whether you believe it or not isn’t relevant, it does influence how you would answer or comment on your points.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:52 am
the racist harawira is on radio live this arvo with silly willy and JT…Im gona ring him have a crack…
November 10th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Yvette
I’m not surprised as the Maori party was formed on the basis in that they subscribe to the same general view, he just calls a spade a spade.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:58 am
You miss my point Chthoniid – if Paganism had maintained dominance through the last couple of millenia it is likely to have changed, and may have mobilised to extinguish slavery sooner or later. No way of knowing of course.
When you mention “every body is equal” it reminds me of both Christianity and communism, and Orwell – some become “more equal” than others. In the past under both communist and Christian regimes many have been far from free.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Re the Colonel at 9.34 on left-wing teaching…
Our primary schools have become outrightly oppressive to boys. Kids as young as five are being bullied by teachers for natural boyish behaviour. These same teachers and their politically correct allies shouted against parents disciplining their children with a smack are using more cruel standover tactics against boys in particular.
Some of our schools are ntroducing elementary sex lessons (that is description of body parts etc) to children as young as five.
A the same time, teachers, now the core of the Labour Party, are manipulating MSM hacks into attacks on Education Minister Tolley for any reform she suggests. Teachers want to run the National Coalition’s education policy and leadership as well as run the whole of the Labour Party.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Pete I can understand you’re mixing up Christianity and Communism but see that as because of your own held beliefs/experiences perhaps?
Whereas I would tend to disagree with you on paganism as they wouldn’t have moved to the Christian “everyone’s of equal value” as they worshiped many different little gods and therefore would have had to become uniform in values, when they actually fought against each other.
The modern representative of paganism in the new age doesn’t give equal worth to everyone as Christianity did.
If you’re not a New Ager/Liberal/Pagan you aren’t of equal value until you become one.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:11 am
To some Christians and religions, the equality thing only applies if you follow the beliefs and practices they insist on – if you don’t toe the line I get the strong impression you are not looked on as equal.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Jack5
So how about voting ACT and take away their power, make money for each Bum on seat the rule and give parents the power over the Unions and MOE.
National won’t do it, only ACT can but they need 10%.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Pete Sure, that may well be your perception but we are talking about the universal value itself and it’s origin not about the people on the ground.
Those Christians that operate like that aren’t following the universal maxim.
In Christendom no matter your choice of religion (including atheism) you are a person of worth to God and that is what drove Wilberforce et al to oppose slavery.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:15 am
I get the point Pete. The argument though is specious. You’re arguing that there is some speculative reason why Paganism would have ‘jumped’ the development path. I can’t see any reason for asserting that such a jump was plausible.
Pre-European Maori culture was Pagan and slavery persisted for centuries. Slavery persisted in many cultures (Asia, Islamic Maghrib and NE) – with longer histories than it did in the West.
Throughout most of human history, people have lived in societies that are unfree. Challenging and changing that has taken time. And I think that one of the most important drivers of that, has been Christianity (from the Renaissance onwards).
November 10th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Chthoniid makes interesting observations about Christianity and Western Civilisation in his 10.22 and 10.47 posts.
It seems to be a measure of the decline in Christianity’s influence in the West that there is now so little outcry or action against the widespread slavery that continues in forms like the many million child labour slaves of India; the Sudanese black children, Christian and naturist, enslaved into Arab families; and the scores of thousands of East European, Burmese, and other young women kidnapped (by violence or ploy) then trafficked in international prostitution. Some of these women have been brought to NZ with no whimper from the PC brigade or the milk-sops who appear to run much of what remains of mainstream Christianity.
While an ex-Stalinist activist like Keith Locke trumpets for NZ to take Asian would-be illegal migrants to Australia, he ignores the plight of modern slaves. This is in contrast to the outcries from the Christians who were the agitators in the West two centuries ago.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Pete also as Chthonlid commented.
Christianity didn’t have a worldview to take over the political realm in society but rather the Spiritual realm of individuals hearts and that would change their emotional/thinking and that would influence their structures.
That’s why Paul never said undo slavery but be the best slave you can be, it’s not that God (Christian) wasn’t concerned with it but wanted the individual hearts allegiance so he could work more fully through them.
If you read Wilberforce’s story it was a long process for him which is only lightly covered (IMO) in the film.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:24 am
The idea of equality of souls in the West comes from Greek philosophy, from there went into Christian theology, then to Islamic theology, which kept Greek philosophy alive during the Christian dark ages, then back into Christian theology, then into Western liberal philosophy via the Renaissance and Enlightenment.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Jack5
It is one of the core reasons I think the UN is unnecessary and indeed is a haven for tyrants and dictators.
As if that’s not bad enough the atheists want to make it the world government and the Gaia (pagan) brigade may well have a good chance at it with AGW.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Sorry Ryan
That explains the breakdown of parts of Christianity certainly but it wasn’t the basis for Christianity’s values.
As we see today with the breakdown of the faith with the liberals.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Ryan Sproull at 11.24 says “which kept Greek philosophy alive during the Christian dark ages.”
It HELPED keep Greek philosophy alive Ryan. You’re forgetting about Byzantium, which didn’t fall until 1453. That collapse to the Muslims sent thousands of Greek-speaking intellectuals fleeing from Constaninople across Europe, sparking the Renaissance. Those refugees from Islam spread classical philosophy and the other intellectual disciplines.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Philu – Atleast these “Knuckle Dragger’s” contribute to society! And pay for your pathetic lifestyle…
November 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Jack5 – that whole meme of Islam keeping greek philosphy alive during the dark ages is such crap. Everyone conveniently forgets that the Byzantium (in it’s own right and as heir to the Roman Empire) had kept that particular knowledge alive quite well for fifteen hundred years.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Grant, I have been following that post too! (Strong campaigner for VSM, especially for Otago) Darlow has alot of explaining to do… Very happy with the decision myself, bad case to test upon but regardless the students will pay no matter what. Liked your point about accountability! No way in hell you will find that in OUSA when the exec is pretty much a young labour meeting.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Are these lovely christian folk demonstrating outside Sidwell Friends, the school attended by Sasha and Malia Obama, one posted this twipic, and the Churches involved in torture, murder of thousands of African children denounced as witches with connections to American Pentecostals your kind of people Jack5?.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Brian Smaller says…..Without kiwiblog you would have no reason to live. In my world that makes you one sad case.
Well no doubt you seem to suffer from the Trougher Hide syndrome “Don’t do what I do do what I say”… Saying this to Phil when you have over 2000 posts of garbage poluting cyber space… I would suggest you don’t have a life..
November 10th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
It is 2035 posts thanks very much. I have a good life – getting even better. Just brought a small farm. What have you done recently?
November 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
joe90 – Westboro baptist church is hardly a good example of a typical Christian church. They are so looney even the loons reject them. Try again.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
No doubt Brian Smaller and Co believe they can solve the worlds problems by spending most of the day blogging posts!
In the words of Britains Chief Rabbi Lord Sacks ” Christains had learnt toleration, but only after 1000 yrs of “knocking the hell out of each other” all over Europe”
Of course the smart money would be on a Islam fundamentalist domination. After all Christianity hasn’t the spine to “fight the good fight” anymore. No doubt I can see many the ilk of Smaller and Co going with the tide if the pressure comes on, growing a beard, and of course a burka for the lady of the house?
November 10th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
wonder if DPF could have another blog for all those that want to argue the irrelevant. Yep I;m talking about all this religious stuff.
You all make Phool look God like.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
brian the smaller buys a ‘small farm’..
brilliant..!
is everything to scale..?
do you have a little tractor..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
What have I been doing! well lets see. Working in a Soup kitchen, and helping out with a rehab program for Afgan & Iraq vets.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Pastor Broden’s Benediction
November 10th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
You moan about my comments then think I would have a bar of Islamism? You obviously haven’t read anything I have ever said about it. When we get our first pig on the farm I am naming it Mohammed.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
gee..!..guess what..?
big lies have been told about the size of the global oil reserves..
and no..!..there isn’t much more than we thought..
just the opposite..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-world-is-much-closer-to-running-out-of-oil-than-official-estimates-admit-according-to-a-whistleblower-at-the-international-energy-agency-who-claims-it-has-been-deliberately-underplaying-a-looming/
November 10th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
No doubt Brian Smaller and Co believe they can solve the worlds problems by spending most of the day blogging posts!
It’s really not that hard to write a blog post, so “most of the day”, no. And if you think blog posts are to solve the world’s problems, you’re right, no one could argue they serve any other purpose.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Not yet – but will get something like this
http://www.autos.co.nz/vehicle/VehicleDetails.aspx?ID=856174
Meanwhile you will destroy a few more brain cells and I’ll be growing and consuming our own organic food.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Adolf Fiinkensein / francis
There are many supporters of the one size fits all monopoly health system that will continue to generate fear via misinformation because they have no idea what they are talking about. These people need to understand the difference between state funding and state provision. In socialist NZ we would rather people died on waiting lists than admit that our monopoly state provider model is a failure – let them think the model we have is great because there is precious little about socialism that they can feel proud about. Let them dream…
November 10th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
This “cock something up, get found out and apologise” routine which politicians engage in is pathetic.
If I were Harawira or Hide I would tell the NZ public to grow up and ‘get over themselves’ and refuse to apologise; they should stand by their actions and comments like men: “never complain, never explain” …(not acting like wussy girly-men)
Can anyone imagine Muldoon apologising for anything?
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
November 10th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Cadmus is back… Winston Peters has returned from Raro….. Awesome, the secret trust and policies for cash man is blogging again.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Brian Smaller said..”You moan about my comments then think I would have a bar of Islamism?” Maybe!
But many in early 1930′s Germany thought Adolf Hitler was a crackpot. Of course by the time the war started everyone one was in fancy dress and sieg hieling about the place, thinking Hitler was the saviour of the world! When Islam Fundamentalism does become the fashion of the West, I can see many of the christian “Born Again Brigade joining up with Islam. Saying in the end, well we believe in god thats all that matters! yer tell me about it! How many so called “Christains” of the West are out one the Battlefield of the Middle East? Oh I forgot they are waiting for someone else to fight that fight for them! Just keep the tidings coming and all will be OK?
November 10th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
@Jack5:
Labour put up a bill recently to prohibit imports made by slave labour. The Greens voted for it. National and ACT did not..
November 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Ok I take it back after reading that post from Cadmus. That comment made sense and wasn’t all about Cadmus so it can’t be Winston.
The Vella family will be gutted that they can’t buy another tax cut this year – poor Winston….
November 10th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Adolf Fiinkensein , He’s still here! another so called expert on the American Health System? Wonders will never cease!
November 10th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
OK I take my ‘take it back’ back – Cadmus is still full of himself and as useful as a chocolate teapot. Cadmus is Winston.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Brian, no point getting a scaled-down life-style block tractor. For the same money you could get a good used 50-60hp job (Kubota or Massey for e.g) which will do anything you want and will outlast you. Plus you’ll have usable power from the PTO (e.g. for rotary hoe).
Good luck with the farm!
November 10th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Brian
Can I come help eat Him?
We’ll bring the beer and wine.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Perhaps a tidy example of the venerable Massey Ferguson 135.
Marvellous machine!
November 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
As long as the beer and wine are are haram (as opposed to halal), I am for it.
I will wait and see exactly what I get. Don’t have a lot of acerage but it is good dirt. Grew up on a farm when I was young but this is new for me. Moving in December.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Burt is another expert that tops the polls as a poster!…. having little to do in life but hang out here …3571 posts Burt, Wow! Burt also believes he’s an expert on the US Health System! So with Brash out Hide found out as a trougher. The place is still running without the need of too much oil. You are lucky we didn’t get Brash/Hide in Burt the waiting lists would be twice as long, with Hospital wards filled with NZ war casualties. No doubt I could hear the squark of the muppet Hide ..Troops to fight the war on terror, Free Trade agreement with US. Tax Cut, Party Vote ACT!
November 10th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Cadmus
I can understand your animus towards Churchianity, I share some of it with you too.
You’ve obviously read some of the NT or at least the bits about the falling away but have you read the Koran?
It is a book of war and conquest and hasn’t the delicate prose or introspection of the human condition you find in the OT & NT.
Sharia law which is the embodiment of life accepts only two classes of persons, Muslim (the umma) and the subjugated non-Muslims (Dhimmi).
What do you think you will be?
I ask this as you posit the taking over of NZ by Islam at some time as a possibility which would mean all on this thread would face that choice and I’m interested in your position, assuming you’re not going to run.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Brian
Name your favoured Beers and I’ll bring some good Chardonnay and Gewürztraminer.
If you BarBQ him I’ll happily cook up some side dishes (while we quaff) to complement whatever you do.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
“Sharia law which is the embodiment of life accepts only two classes of persons, Muslim (the umma) and the subjugated non-Muslims (Dhimmi).”
How different is this to Christians (the chosen ones now, then die and have everlasting life) to con-compliers (looked down on now, then die and go straight to hell)? Each brand of Christianity seems to have it’s own sense of truth, raised importance and position in the scheme of things.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
MIkeNZ – I will bear that in mind. I have to buy and grow Mohammed to eating size yet
As an aside, I told my daughter that while it is not traditional to name animals you are going to eat (she wants to call a pig Sir Oinkalot) in Mohammed’s case, I’ll make an exception.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
The difference is that the Christians nowadays don’t actively take measures to put you into the dead and go to hell category, whereas Islam is doing a fine job of that in all the places where they hold sway.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I agree that probably more Muslims than Christians are actively hastening the “going to hell” these days, but minorities of both still do it, or try to do it.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Mike NZ
No, Not just NZ!, the entire Western World.
Have you read the Koran or are you going by what the Pastor told you???
If you “have” read the Koran, what Koran were you reading?
So I take it your believe the Koran is the Book of the Devil?
Have you spoke to a Muslum about their faith ?
Here is the theory as explained to me. Not the story you and your family are being scared by from “Pastor Pete”
OT, NT, Koran, All believe in Creation, Adam, EVe, Moses,The Ark, Jesus, Virgin Mary. and lots of other things.
Christianity blew it by power and money ! So lets get back to basics was the theory. A simple living shepard boy Mohummad was past the way to live life by God 500 or so yrs later. What your getting is the correct way to live life, via the word of god, the Koran.
You will find in someways the Koran have more in Common with the OT than any other writings. BTW..I’m not a follower of Islam or the Koran!
And …Run away… Where to?
November 10th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Brian
I cooked a whole sheep in a pit once (I’d made after reading a blokes cookbook with a hangi story in it, it was really an underground brick oven), it was fantastic stuffed with rice, lemons and herbs. We fed 40 odd people and the meat just came off the bone.
There’s nothing better than a roast with good company and some grog
I used to get baby piglets off of a piggery in Ottery (Cape Town) years ago for Braais, they would feed 15 odd people and we would have a great time sitting round the pool administering to them
, drinking and playing pool games with the kids.
Possibly one of the few things I miss of South Africa, being able to invite people round for a BarBQ and know the weather would be fit for it!
Pete
Did you read anything I wrote earlier?
Sorry mate but duh! Are you’re letting your experience cloud the flow man???
A Christian shouldn’t treat anyone different because of who they are, Wilberforce didn’t as an example.
You obviously missed that bit of the NT. The writer Paul was very very clear on that point.
That some don’t behave like that means they are not abiding by the universal maxim that all are of equal worth.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Cadmus
of both sides were saying.
Some parts of the Koran is OT verbatim almost.
I used to own a Koran but threw it out a while back as it’s all online as are the Hadiths (they are like the Christian commentaries and prayer books).
I have read the Koran since 1993 and have dipped into all of the five core Hadiths online (and on paper) as I initially wanted to see what the Judmentalists
I don’t read or speak Arabic and my use of Babelfish is useless for the task.
If you’re going to go down the piss take and emotional painting words path then this conversation ends.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
100 tons of rice for the orphans!
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-11/06/content_8924630.htm
November 10th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Cadmus:
So, Cadmus, what do you say about Philu – currently sitting on 6685 comments? If Burt has “little to do in life” – what does that comment tally say about Philu’s life?
Incidentally, there’s a technical distinction in the blogging world between “posts” and “comments”.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Mike, I read what you said about Paul. But I don’t think all Christians read that, or if they do they choose to ignore it. The message I often see and hear is “be like us to be equal with us”. I even see that between different groups of Christians “we are the ones that have got it right so we are the ones who will go to heaven”.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Re Joe90′s question to me in his 11.48 post.
No, they are not my type of Christians, Joe. However, there is no denying the huge influence on Christianity on Western Civilisation, and overwhelmingly for the good.
You seem to be with Gibbon in thinking Christianity undermines Western civilisation, but the role of Christianity in the abolition of slavery gives the lie to this. (Apart from the inhumanity, slave labour produced weak economies, as the Confederates and Brazilians found. Slavery inhibits mechanisation and the drive for productivity. Incidentally, so does dirt cheap labour as NZ will find from the thousands of Islanders now coming annually to pick our grapes and fruit).
You can see the benefits of Christianity to our society when you look at who stands against booze barons and drug lords, and who ran campaigns against child labour and for women’s rights, still denied in many Muslim countries. In NZ, who runs the op. shops and food banks? I think it was a Presbyterian minister who stood up for the Chinese when they were treated appallingly on the Otago goldfields. For every aberration you cite, you can find scores of cases of admirable Christian behaviour.
There will always be flaws in a religion, but as humans we may be hard-wired to need religious belief. Better have a chiefly good religion like Christianity rather than voodoo with human sacrifices. When Christianity goes, often Marxism or fascism or some other “ism” replaces it, or a semi-Christian barbarism arises as in the African cases you cite, Joe.
You can hold against Christianity the pogroms of the Crusades and the witch hunts as churches persecuted remnants of the previous nativist religion, but such bizarre, cruel events also occur outside Christianity. Consider the Christchurch creche hysteria and injustice, still unresolved. Christianity didn’t drive that.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Cadmus
Yes that’s right, I have nothing better to do than comment here all day and do you know why that is ?
It’s because I’ve nothing to do now that I can’t find any politicians to who will do policies for cash deals. Without a corrupt self serving muppet in parliament I can’t donate $100k to a secret trust and get tax policy changes that make me millions – come back Cadmus, my revenue flow misses you and the helicopter is always available your when you need it to big note yourself around you 2 or 3 remaining senile supporters.
BTW; have you been pissed up in a backbencher lately? The urinals have a bigger sign on them now which should make it easier to distinguish them from the fireplaces.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Trying to understand modern Islamic societies via the Quran is like trying to understand the modern Papacy via the Bible. It’s impossible when you avoid the meetings, councils, religious discussions and evolution of doctrine.
The NT was quite clear that Christians couldn’t serve in the army and kill others. The doctrine of a just war wasn’t spelled out in the Bible. That came later.
Similarly, many Sunni sects became increasingly moderate- as doctrine had to be justified with reference to the interpretation of the community. Wahibists get around this by narrowly defining who in the community can interpret this, but this sect is very much a medieval throwback. Once Muslim communities get a bit of education and economic power, they tend to moderate quickly. It’s no surprise that it is the dark, poor corners of the Muslim world where fanaticism has the deepest hold.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
The wahhabists, who were active in South Asia even in Kipling’s day, may be creating hell in poor corners of the Muslim world Chthoniid (3.30) but a lot of the finance for them apparently comes from rich Saudi Arabia.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Well said, Cthnoniid.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Saudi Arabia is the Wahibist state in the NE however, and its wealth hasn’t developed out of an emergent, educated middle class. Not exactly in the same position as say, Malaysia..
November 10th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Pete George 2:30 pm,
I think you sometimes misinterpret the intentions of even Biblically sound Christians, Pete.
‘We’ don’t want you, or anyone else for that matter, to “be like us” simply so that you become a card carrying member of our ‘club’. Most Biblical Christians simply espouse what the Bible says in regards to obtaining salvation. And reflect that while God is a God of love, He is also a God of justice; perfect love requires perfect justice. Our motives, if sound, spring from a desire that as many as possible would repent of their sins and receive Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Not so that you increase ‘our’ number, but so that you might be spared from the consequences of NOT receiving Christ; thereby having to suffer for your sins personally rather than allowing Christ to suffer in your sted.
No one is born a Christian; we become a Christian upon receiving Christ.
One of my motives in sharing God’s love as revealed in the gospel of Christ, is firstly an expression of my love and graditude to God for saving me, and is secondly an expression of my love for my fellow man in the knowledge of their eternal destiny if they DO NOT receive Christ.
Not being a Christian makes you no less valuable in God’s sight.
Christ died for the sins of ALL men; His love is extended to ALL.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Pete
you are correct in that is what some do but that is them not the underlying value.
Judge them by all means not the value/body.
I get embarrassed at Tamaki and others but they are not Christianity nor God
You’ll find that the NT also calls those who profess to follow Him to judge them selves to see if they are in the faith.
That would mean that allegience of heart and therefore a lifestyle of moving towards Their God.
It is a journey.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Kris K – Not being a Christian makes you no less valuable in God’s sight.
Christ died for the sins of ALL men; His love is extended to ALL.
So why will god burn me in hell if you’re right and I’m wrong?
Will he use the Clayton Weatherstone defence?
November 10th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Chthoniid
“Trying to understand modern Islamic societies via the Quran is like trying to understand the modern Papacy via the Bible. It’s impossible when you avoid the meetings, councils, religious discussions and evolution of doctrine.
The NT was quite clear that Christians couldn’t serve in the army and kill others. The doctrine of a just war wasn’t spelled out in the Bible. That came later.”
You raise a hoary issue and I would ask for clarification from you.
In what way is the modern papacy different from the old papacy in that it appears to be a separate religion/sect from NT Christianity and many of it’s core practices reflect values and heart positions that contradict the NT still today as centuries ago?
Where in the NT does Jesus or Paul state you shouldn’t be in the army?
Jesus never said such to the centurion rather he commended his faith to others, of all the times/places in the NT there is the perfect place to put such a thing, why is it not there?
In another place after His resurrection he asked the disciples how many swords they had, He never said do not use them did He?
As for just war, it wasn’t was it, can you imagine Joshua’s take on that?
November 10th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
billyborker 4:08 pm,
Ultimately, Billy, we all choose our own destiny.
God makes the offer – you either accept or reject it.
Your decision determines your final destination – it really is that simple.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
I have hope that, as Chthoniid suggests, the numbers who use religion badly whether they be Christians in Kenya or Muslims in Somalia or Afghanistan will reduce with better education and quality of life. Putting them down is more likely to keep them down, encouraging them up won’t always work but it will help improvement.
I don’t have a problem with Christians (or others) using their religion to aspire to and work towards being better people, and to have better communities. But I’d like to see some acceptance from them that others can follow a similar path towards a better good without having to share the exact same beliefs, or even similar beliefs. Goodness and morality does not have to depend on one’s particular belief system.
Disagreeing on some particular points of morality needs to be accepted, sometimes you have to go with majority wishes and with laws.
Rubbishing and writing someone off because of their religious or non-religious beliefs or because of their political leanings seems to be common, and it can be very negative and destructive.
Shouldn’t we all learn to work in a similar direction with acceptable differences?
November 10th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
So Kris K, can you answer the question, or not? If god loves me and I don’t love him, why should I be punished? Will he slash me 300 times witha fruit knife before I burn in hell? Why can’t he just move on?
November 10th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Pete
All you say has merit and from the point of view of being a physical person in this world, yes what you say makes sense.
Christianity has never been about being better citizens and never will be. It is not a religion of works.
That is the obscenity of the cross.
It is one reason Jesus is so hated, the cross makes status, education, wealth, Good works irrelevant.
What it is about your heart allegiance.
Where does it belong? towards Jesus or Yahweh through Jesus.?
I must be clear here not the AOG, Anglicans or Roman Catholic church but God Yahweh/Jesus.
That is why Christians are vilified all over the world, because ultimately it isn’t about being a good person but who is your heart given too. It is about Jesus.
That is the core of where your heart is in your message, if you are honest and look at your last comment and where it’s root is.
I make no judgment on you I just want you to be honest with me.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
you rightwingers/free-marketeers are on a road to nowhere..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/polling-across-27-countriesshow-that-only-11-support-freemarket-capitalismthe-vast-majority-say-that-free-market-flawed/
November 10th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Billy
If you didn’t care in some place deep down in your heart you wouldn’t keep asking this. But you do, hence you keep bringing it up again and again.
That will be part of your hell as some place deep inside of you you know God exists and He cares for you and when there is absolutely no chance that you will be in His presence it will be too late.
and you will know it has been your choice.
Have you honestly read the NT and thought through who Jesus is/was/spoke about himself?
November 10th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
“And there is very strong support around the world for governments to distribute wealth more evenly. That is backed by majorities in 22 of the 27 countries.”
Words of wisdom coming from nothing less than a professional bludger, who must be having a quiet day to have the cheek to write tripe like that.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
once again..manolo displays his complete ignorance of the role of the humble speechmark..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
billyborker 4:32 pm,
Sigh.
If you hate God, and despise everything about Him, why SHOULD He permit you to be in His presence?
There are only two final locations you can be placed, Billy:
• The new heavens and earth – the new Creation – will only have in residence those who are God’s children; the heirs of salvation.
• Those who reject the offer of salvation are not able to reside in God’s presence; God cannot tolerate sin. The only place outside of God’s presence is the Lake of Fire – prepared for Satan and his fallen angels. This place was never intended for man, but by rejecting salvation this is the only place available which is outside of God’s presence.
There is no third option.
Your sin MUST be paid one way or another:
• You either pay for it yourself (in hell).
• Or you permit Christ to pay for your sins (on the cross).
November 10th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Ok. I don’t believe in God or gods. I’ve had no indication that anything like that exists, and my “logic” suggests to me that most likely it/he/they don’t.
I understand I have grown up in a society with a strong Christian influence. I believe I share many of the positive attributes and morality of Christianity. I don’t believe positive Christian influences are confined to Christianity, there have been many good non-Christians and non-Christian societies.
I don’t see why I can’t be as good a person as anyone with religious beliefs while keeping my own non-religious beliefs.
I don’t see any point in trying to get everyone to follow the same beliefs, that will never happen.
I think religious (of different types) and non-religious people, and lefties and middlies and righties, and lighties and darkies, and poories and richies, and easties and westies, should all be trying to work with a common purpose towards a better good and accept that people will always be different and have different beliefs.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Pete, Thanks for the first sentence, it’s all that counts.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
fuck k.k.k..!
you are really ‘barking’..eh..?
“..The only place outside of God’s presence is the Lake of Fire – prepared for Satan and his fallen angels..”
don’t you realise how you are denigrating the beliefs of many good christians..
by peddling these cartoonish fantasies..?
(hey..why don’t you and anfd that sth african who calls himself mikenz exchange email addresses..eh..?
and just go for it..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
once again…Phool manages to demonstrate that he is a complete and absolute fuckwit.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
gee..!..clintoiid..
..do you ever move beyond the raw ad hominem..?
..why don’t you try to critique some of the ideas under consideration..?
instead of just indicting/confirming yourself as one who is barely articulate..?
and you are a teacher..?..aren’t you..?
(fuck..!..is all i can say..boggles the mind..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Phool 5:16 pm,
If you don’t like what I write then you’re more than welcome to do what I do when confronted with your spam – spin that scroll wheel.
And everything I say I believe I can substantiate from God’s word.
If other Christians have a problem with what I say then they will no doubt hold me to task.
If you have a problem … well it’s your problem, and given your past anti Christian rants I feel no obligation in justifying myself to you in any way, shape, or form.
… and your opinion of what makes a “good Christian” would be seriously suspect, and bare little resemblance to that of the Biblical description.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
There is nothing wrong with the free market when it is a free market without bloody bankers and politicians distorting it.
At least we in NZ no longer believe in the SMP game, it is a bloody pity that other countries do not follow us in trade.
Bankers should be there to supply the money needed not to game the system to put obscene amounts in their pockets.
It is a joke the number of countries who pay mouth service to free trade while handing over fat subsidies to what they call farmers, they are not farmers,the fuckers are on welfare.
Making a good living off twenty cows in Europe, bloody hell.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Just dropped in to sing the magpie song but seems like billy and phil are forming an unholy alliance against the christians. Think I’ll fuck off till after dinner.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Billy and phool are on the Satanic pay roll.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Sing the magpie song? Oh yeah.
About 7.30 there should be some doodles
November 10th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
So … Philu
Whats your take on Baxter Pharmaceutical if you have heard of them?
November 10th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
philu
We understand you have an opinion. You have voiced it, thank you. Now let the grown ups continue the discussion.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Im back. Need a bit of time to catch up on what is happening but then I will be firing on all cilinders Yahhhhhh
November 10th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
no..haven’t heard of them..
what have they done..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
you were saying burt..?
(but i suspect..as usual..you have s.f.a..
eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
philu
You just cut-n-paste bits and pieces that any google search could find and then slag people off when they don’t agree with your idol de-jour. What more is there to say than – thank you, now let some others express their own opinions and their own analysis because until they do (write it down on a blog) I can’t find it in google searches to be a prat like you.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Nothing Philu just some weird shit in Ukraine i was hoping being a Greenie you would know more.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
LUCY@6.58pm
A Bradford (British Made) only has 2 cylinders. Firing on all means holding a spark plug to test each one.
Geeze I’m sorry but could not resist (no pun) that.
Putt putt putt putt
November 10th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
2 in the front, 3 in the middle, 1 in the glovebox, and 4 in the back lol
November 10th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
we’re waiting burt..
c’mon..!
‘opinions/analysis’..?
we’re all on the edge of our seats..
but i suspect..
that as usual..
you will have sweet fuck all..
..eh..?
i mean..you’ve said zip in three and a half thousand comments to date..
eh..?
why spoil yr record..?
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Quardle oodle ardle wadle doodle.
Phool the magpie said.
7.30, magpies should be counting the daily gatherings
November 10th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Well Steve duh! Im not a mechanic but thank you so much for putting me straight on my cylinders. I am sooo chuffed!
November 10th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Why? Does that allow you to put me in a pigeonhole and nothing else I believe in matters? Or did you just want to know what angle I was coming from? I don’t get why that is all that counts, believer or not.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
LUCY,
horizontally opposed mechanical wise, bang in opposite directions
we stop here ok
November 10th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
philu
If you hadn’t noticed I was an observer of the religious discussions and have contributed absolutely nothing to it to date. You now demanding my analysis just proves you were not, and still are not, paying attention to the debate you seemed to be participating in.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
General Debate today seems to have turned into the religious forum.
Why don’t you devil dodgers and god botherers take it to a chat room?
One person mentions religion and away you go. FFS it is Tuesday and some have no work to do?
Public Servants, see you all at 9am sharp ok
November 10th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
silly me..!
there i was thinking you were saying you had something to say..burt..(save yr usual ad hominems..)
but no..
carry on..!
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Quick. Hide phool here comes Paula with a probation officer and bloody hands bob with an employment contract.
Hours of work 4.00am till 9.00pm with a 30min break to eat your lunch (rare steak) and do your blogging.
Sundays off to go to church and cook some homebake.
Quardle ardle wardle doodle—–phil the magpies phucked.
Johnboy(sheep.walton.co.nz)
(Gunning down magpies since 1993).———-eh?
November 10th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Made me lol that Hussein referred the fall of the Berlin Wall back to HIM, as though he’s the centre of the Universe (though he likes to think that he is).
Maybe we should have renamed it the Obama Wall, that way he would have gone to Germany for the celebrations.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
You really are quite slow on the uptake.
It would be cruel to feed the delusion that someone, somewhere gives a shit about what you think or write.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
why so bitter/angry..?..clintoiid..?
was it something i said..?
was it ‘cos i posted those kick-arse whale photos..?
(did that make you feel inferior..?..)
and really..!
you are a teacher..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
‘and really..!
you are a teacher..?’
Now now phool your jealousy is showing.
Sad to think you too could have been a teacher——–what with all your——–(qualifications—-meh)
But alas the PPTA don’t enroll—— (SSSSShh—”junkies”—meh?) —- specially if they have( ssssshhhhh)–
—-(“convictions —–eh”?). and still fail the drug test—–meh?
Wasted life eh?(whoar.co.nz)
Johnboy(sheep.walton.co.nz)
Happily murdering maggoting maggies since phuck-knows when
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Gods wonderful ways.
Once upon a time in the Kingdom of Heaven , God went
missing for six days. Eventually, Michael the Arch-Angel found him
on the seventh day, resting. He inquired of God, “Where have you been?”
God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds
“Look Michael, look what I’ve made.” said God.
Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said,
“What is it?”
“It’s a planet,” replied God, “and I’ve put LIFE
on it. I’m going to call it Earth and it’s going
to be a great place of balance”.
“Balance?” inquired Michael, still confused.
God explained, pointing to different parts of Earth.
“For example, North America will be a place of great
opportunity and wealth while South America is going to be poor;
the Middle East over there will be a hot spot
and Russia will be a cold spot.
Over there I’ve placed a continent of white people
and over there is a continent of black people,”
God continued, pointing to different countries.
This one will be extremely hot and arid while
this one will be very cold and covered in ice.”
The Archangel , impressed by God’s work, then
pointed to a smaller land mass and said “What’s that one?”
Ah ,” said God. “That’s New Zealand ,
the most glorious place on Earth.
There are beautiful lakes, rivers, streams and hills.
The people from New Zealand are going to be modest,
intelligent and humorous and they’re going to be found
travelling the world. They’ll be extremely sociable, hard-working and
high-achieving,and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats
and carriers of peace.”
Michael gasped in wonder and admiration but then proclaimed,
“What about balance, God? you said there will be BALANCE!”
God replied wisely,
“Wait until you see the tossers I’m putting next to them. I call them Australians!!!”
November 10th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
A Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation poll tells people what it believes in. Surprise surprise. No doubt it was a push poll.
I look forward to executing thieves of the likes of phool the communist anti-western retard.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Oh dear Phool, you’re obviously projecting your own anger/bitterness onto me.
Gosh, you are slow though. I’m not a teacher. Thanks for taking an interest though.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Phool:
Let me see:
- Chthoniid takes his own photos – high-quality and interesting.
- You, on the other hand, didn’t post kick-arse whale photos; you merely posted a link to photos someone else had taken. That makes you a copy-and-paste merchant – definitely inferior.
Do others agree?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
“Aye”—-The aye’s have it.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Does Kiwiblog not have an edit facility anymore?
Phool link-whored on this general debate threadA>. And, for those who can bear visiting Phool’s blog, it’s here – the photos are those of Bryant Austin.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
hurf…29,000 people in 27 countries were polled..
not enough of a sample size for you..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Let me get this straight. Is there an ‘Edit” button somewhere that if its pushed all 6699 of phools posts disappear.
If that is so I will push it. Just tell me where to find it!
November 10th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Phuck. Too late. 6700 has just gestated.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Since it’s clear that the Science Isn’t Settled, I thought it must therefore be something else. Herewith some suggestions:
The science is amiss
The science is bollocks
The science is canard
The science is dishonest
The science is evasive
The science is fraudulent
The science is garbage
The science is hyperbole
The science is incorrect
The science is junk
The science is kleptomania
The science is junk
The science is mistaken
The science is non-existent
The science is odious
The science is placeboic
The science is quackery
The science is refuse
The science is shameful
The science is truth-free
The science is unethical
The science is vacuous
The science is womby
The science is xerotripic
The science is yonderly
The science is zoocytium
November 10th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Ahem, you seem to have missed the obvious one, ahem– The science is ahem, unsettled.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Yeah, and I doubled-up on the junk. Lamantable!
November 10th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
;.”.Lamantable!..”
heh..!
illiterate/dumb people are really funny..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 10th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Out of 600 million people?
November 10th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Viking
delicious!
Pete
I do apologise i was doing two things at once and had to leave.
I thought I’d said that your first sentence made sense of the rest that you’d written.
But I see I just wrote the first bit and didn’t the second or changed to email and log off.