General Debate 11 November 2009

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Leonidas

@ Political Busker 12:11

Is that what your mum told you it meant?.
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November 11, 2009 12:19pm
Political Busker

There are very few who in fact fuck their mothers, just like there are very few grandmothers who suck eggs.
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November 11, 2009 12:20pm
wreck1080

Banking inquiry comes back with the conclusion that NZ banks have been ripping off the public.

This is the inquiry that had no government backing, and all the major banks except kiwibank declined to take part.

These guys are idiots, they started with a conclusion, and held a subsequent inquiry to support that conclusion. What the hell was the point?
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November 11, 2009 12:20pm
Leonidas

@ PB 12:20,

Therein lies the power of the implication.
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November 11, 2009 12:22pm
toad

Sonny Blount said: Toad, did you not see the poll results of Maori voters. Green Party 3%. Try something else.

I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.

And, anyway, before the Maori Party came along, Greens polled better among Maori than we did among the general population – it’s just that the Maori Party took most of the Maori voters taht used to vote Green.
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November 11, 2009 12:23pm
senzafine

The Ice sheets and glaciers have been melting for 10,000 years and we have previously had ice free poles.

Quite correct. In fact, The history of the earth tells us that it is abnormal to have ice at the poles. The normal, non-ice age state of flux for the planet is to have no permanent ice shelves, period.
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November 11, 2009 12:23pm
Murray

I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties in that they’re in power and the greens are irrelevantfringe loonies.
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November 11, 2009 12:26pm
RRM

^^^ You have an avatar of yourself as a South Park character on your website, and you build catapults.

irrelevantfringe loonies… you were saying???
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November 11, 2009 12:28pm
Sonny Blount

I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.

Yes, you are so principled and superior toad, it really is a shame that 93% of people disagree with your facts. According to climate change idiots that is a consensus and you’re a fringe loony nutter.
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November 11, 2009 12:31pm
Sonny Blount

^^^ You have an avatar of yourself as a South Park character on your website, and you build catapults.

irrelevantfringe loonies… you were saying???

Please RRM, where do we find your list of approved tastes and interests?
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November 11, 2009 12:32pm
Political Busker

@wreck1080

I took the BNZ into a judicial review of an advertisement they coordinated and funded called NZ’s Biggest Morning Tea on behalf of Preventing Violence in the Home Inc. It was openly gender discriminatory showing four dads assaulting children – they successfully applied to have the proceedings against them ‘struck out’. Justice Randerson (Chief High Court judge) struck them out alright – but not as the bank would have liked. He struck them out because I had ‘no standing’ but not because I was wrong. What i proved was that the bank instead was in full breach of their international codes and obligations on marketing, in particular to children but as well under the general principles. They simply had not paid the restrictions any attention at all – absolute arrogance.

The point I make about the proceedings is that I complained that men as fathers no longer have any standing in New Zealand and the judge fully agreed with me striking out my proceeding because I had no standing. From your point, the issue I raise is that unless the public are actively challenging corruption and corporate theft the perpetrators will simply get away with it. I beat the bank – not that anyone effectively knows about it or as you probably point out, cares.
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November 11, 2009 12:34pm
big bruv

Toad

If you had your way how would you see New Zealand governed?

Would you give ‘special’ status to Maori?
Would Maori have final say on all legislation?

I guess the question is this, would we all be under Maori rule?
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November 11, 2009 12:35pm
Murray

And they let me teach children too, dear oh dear what is the world coming to?

In other news I see Hone has his own facebook page now http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=216948967587&ref=nf
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November 11, 2009 12:35pm
Pete George

those who are vainly clinging onto catastrophism as their last hope in advancing the cause of socialistic world government – all in the name of saving the planet.

The New World Order is a lot more cunning than using something scientifically provable such as climate change as their catalyst.

They are much more likely to fool the foolish from within – say, to promote some pretty face from a remote state to headline a movement they are backing their saviour, and they pull the strings at the most popular “news” network in the country, so d under the sheep’s noses the capitalists make their big move.

Or are you trying to suggest that the downing of the Berlin wall and crumbling of communism was a feint move?
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November 11, 2009 12:38pm
Political Busker

@big bruv,

The first issue is sovereignty and for it to be rightfully returned. That can be spanned to a date and pinned lawfully to a review of the concept, set prior to the date. Let’s say 20 years for simple arguments sake.

The model of authority should resemble the Supercity body of five, although instead of two seats it should have one allocated to Maori with a deciding vote to reengage the matters before it using a different process or to issue a question for binding referendum. The security of vote is an equitable system through the present two different electoral roles.

Two judicial systems are established and run concurrently much like Sharma law. These are accessible to all and their constitutions should be the cause of debate over the period of settling the constitution of the nation. Maori Parliament is established at Waitangi and has direct access into central Government – with the body elect of five the top court and an effective upper house.

I know you didn’t ask me but those are my ideas anyway.
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November 11, 2009 12:45pm
big bruv

This is what a real justice system does to a cold blooded murderer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6539505/Washington-sniper-John-Allen-Muhammad-to-be-executed-at-9pm.html

One day we might be brave enough to start doing it here.
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November 11, 2009 12:52pm
Political Busker

Peter George –

Are you saying – “in the future?”

In our capital city executive officers duped their councilors into making ‘buses’ the catalyst and ‘catalyst’ to make ‘buses priority’ over pedestrians – all fed with a Snapper. Infratil is about to take over New Zealand’s capital. Global warming and the swine flu are simply instruments of effect.

This used to be the land of sheep but that concept should be put to the freezer and replaced with all being milkers.
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November 11, 2009 12:52pm
Owen McShane

Fascism and Communism (Lenins and Maos) are secular religions. the Marxist sect always end an argument by simply referring to “the book” as – but its not what Marx says.

When people hold any set of beliefs with enough conviction it becomes easy to rationalise imprisoning or killing those who refuse to conform.

The latest secular religion – environmentalism – has many prophets who advocate imprisoning people who are skeptical of climate change or suggest that AIDS is the earth mothers’ way of reducing population.

Most religions whether secular or spiritual find a climate of fear is a useful too for maintaining discipline and conformity with the code.

Your religion or belief is an ideology. Mine is simply natural common sense.
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November 11, 2009 12:56pm
Political Busker

in my view our justice system should be tiered without the judiciary permitting a set sentence, only by recommendation for observing the presented facts. Where you start in the system is from where you have to work. The bottom tier starts at a religious place one above a clean room with a red button.
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November 11, 2009 12:56pm
Pete George

environmentalism – has many prophets who advocate imprisoning people who are skeptical of climate change

Anything to back that up with? Seems like some of your claimed common sense is absent here.
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November 11, 2009 1:03pm
Political Busker

Owen McShane
I agree but fear is the market of freedom. Until that market is reduced to a size manageable by common sense we are on a cycle requiring something as dramatic as aids to control behaviours and population.
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November 11, 2009 1:03pm
big bruv

PB

Where does the concept of democracy fit into your plan?
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November 11, 2009 1:05pm
Pete George

Most religions whether secular or spiritual find a climate of fear is a useful too for maintaining discipline and conformity with the code.

Does that include trying to create a fear of a world government to try and get people to conform with the code of unlimited exploitation of resources?
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November 11, 2009 1:13pm
Political Busker

The voting system stays the same. Maori elect their own as they would elect their own. Tribal Democracy.
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November 11, 2009 1:16pm
Leonidas

Not a big fan of one law for all then?.
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November 11, 2009 1:21pm
big bruv

Bloody hell!

If you want to hear a real racist Mowree tune into Radio live right now!

Phill Goff is having a stand up scrap with that wanker Willie Jackson.

I have to say, Goff has gone up in my estimations in the last 24 hours.
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November 11, 2009 1:21pm
Murray

Yeah Phils onto a winner this time.

Some must have hit his bullshit threashold by the look of it.
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November 11, 2009 1:23pm
Jack5

Ryan Sproull at 10.10 asked for references for Hitler’s atheism, and later suggested Hitler promoted something called positive Christianity.

Here’s a good solid reference Ryan. Michael Burleigh, one of the top historical authorities on Hitler, in his 2000 book: The Third Reich, a New History. See the last chapter in Part Nine, “Men of God”.

Hitler’s views in his own words:

Christianity is nothing but ” wholehearted Bolshevism under a tinsel of methaphysics”.

And Christianity is “an invention of sick brains” and Hitler asked: “Who is this God who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.

And, pertinent to the Pacific: “.. a Negro with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation…”

And “.. I dream of a state of affairs in which every man would know that he lives and dies for the preservation of the species…”

Burleigh says elsewhere in the book that for the Nazis, Christ was an inconvenience, except when crucified by the Jews.

Burleigh also writes Nazis despised Christianity (page 255 of the Pan edition of the book).
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November 11, 2009 1:24pm
big bruv

PB

Does that mean I (as a non Maori) will not have to finance Maori social welfare, health, etc?
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November 11, 2009 1:24pm
Political Busker

Yes Leonidas – this is what I have said – one law for all. What I have written creates different points of access into that law, it disassembles the rigidity and fractious nature of law which is policed to fear which is a corporate investment alienating of social policy allowing the latter to be commandeered by something as broad as feminism or homosexuality.

Phil Goff has a problem with his position at present given that he signed off as the Queen on an application of mine for the Royal Prerogative of Mercy identifying a breach of sovereignty through comity in the Court of Appeal. He has much to answer for and if Hone is stating that he should be put up against a wall – then it is very likely he is referring to this – given that Hone is the nation’s own catalyst to expose injustices. I have already made my view on such sentences and don’t see any necessity for Goff to be put to a test rather than recognising openly and proactively exactly what it is that he knows he is hiding.
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November 11, 2009 1:34pm
Pete George

And Christianity is “an invention of sick brains” and Hitler asked: “Who is this God who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.

I wonder if he was aware of the irony – it could easily be:

And Nazism is “an invention of sick brains” and we could ask: “Who is this Fuhrer who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.
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November 11, 2009 1:36pm
Inventory2

toad said “I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.

And, anyway, before the Maori Party came along, Greens polled better among Maori than we did among the general population – it’s just that the Maori Party took most of the Maori voters taht used to vote Green.”

Sounds like a bad case of the green-eyed monster (or should that be Green-eyed) toad. I thought you guys operated on the philosphy that individual choice was a GOOD thing 😉
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November 11, 2009 1:40pm
Pete George

Although Nazi policy at first seemed to tolerate church autonomy, it soon became clear that official tolerance of Christian religious groups would last only as long as the churches accepted synchronization–the alignment of the church, along with other areas of society, with Nazi goals.

The Nazi government attempted to supplant Christian worship with secular Nazi party celebrations which adopted many symbols of religious ritual but instead glorified the party and the Fuehrer.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005206
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November 11, 2009 1:41pm
Political Busker

Big Bruv the benefit system goes in for full review. However, at it lowest tier there is a basic rate accessible to long term or willing unemployed. It is low and accommodated to residential community care including food and power and sits above the prison system. This region of social backing is traversed by any prisoner coming out of the penal system and used as a platform for reintegration into the system.

I haven’t had much cause to engage the rationalities of the health system ‘yet’ – but the system of tier is the fundamental principle, you enter the health system by need rather than for cost. A human has a right to a civilized existence and that can only be implemented where common sense is a language of communication.
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November 11, 2009 1:42pm
MikeNZ

OM 12:56
Your religion or belief is an ideology. Mine is simply natural common sense.
So’s mine 😉
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November 11, 2009 1:42pm
big bruv

PB

Given that you are suggesting two separate nations existing along side each other I fail to see why I should have to pay one cent to Maori.
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November 11, 2009 1:56pm
Murray

They’re not “side by side”, one is a parasite of the other.
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November 11, 2009 1:59pm
Political Busker

I didn’t say that you had to – I suggest we run a system embodied under two functional principles in existence. You pay for a system anyway. It isn’t you who gives Maori money, just like it isn’t you who pays for the unemployed – it is the politicians. You agree to let them make decisions and they get back to you consulting with what they do. Optimally they do this with care and consideration – very unlike the WCC allowing Infratil to take a city and eventually a nation.

Your impression that your money is used for anything specific other than for the benefit of an operating system is wrong. You pay tax.
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November 11, 2009 2:02pm
Murray

The money that “other people” are giving away is in fact ours PB.

Lingual gymnastics wont change that simple fact.
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November 11, 2009 2:09pm
Political Busker

You don’t own the money when you give it to the Crown. They own it. To think otherwise is to drift along in a mind set of self importance and the very reason I complain (and prove) about complacency: Please, think about it, it is avery important junction in democracy, its purpose, and the how and why of how it is abused. The WCC and Infratil, the BNZ, the HRC and all of these activities letting you think you are something more important to them than a cash cow exposes the facts that slip by when you think you have any real control about what it is they feed you. .The Maori system is different from this. In that system the human is the principal.
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November 11, 2009 2:20pm
Murray

And yet its still giving other peoples money away.

Get your head around the idea that the people ARE the government. Those elected to operate it are our servants. Not the other way round.
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November 11, 2009 2:46pm
Political Busker

The political scrutiny recently isn’t simply because corruption appeared before the country – like it did not exist or was not seen previously. Nor was it specifically to do with the recession as if that in itself was an independent cause: it was because some folk decided to ask the right questions and make the proper demands. After a while of badgering and standing one’s ground some folk who have power eventually have to concede. What I am asking you to consider is that the regimes established in NZ government linking into the courts and over a considerable period have calcified corrupted practices. They can do it because they own and distribute the money you earn. Until they are drawn to a monitored regulation of effect then there will be no proper free system and fear will be maintained and abused as the market of that freedom.
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November 11, 2009 3:02pm
MikeNZ

Ohh Boy Murray
I wish those in parliament could get their heads round that too!

I thought we were the crown, the collective?
If not off with her head!
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November 11, 2009 3:39pm
Ryan Sproull

Ryan Sproull at 10.10 asked for references for Hitler’s atheism, and later suggested Hitler promoted something called positive Christianity.

I didn’t suggest, I cited historical fact.

Here’s a good solid reference Ryan. Michael Burleigh, one of the top historical authorities on Hitler, in his 2000 book: The Third Reich, a New History. See the last chapter in Part Nine, “Men of God”.

Hitler’s views in his own words:

Christianity is nothing but ” wholehearted Bolshevism under a tinsel of methaphysics”.

And Christianity is “an invention of sick brains” and Hitler asked: “Who is this God who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.

And, pertinent to the Pacific: “.. a Negro with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation…”

And “.. I dream of a state of affairs in which every man would know that he lives and dies for the preservation of the species…”

Burleigh says elsewhere in the book that for the Nazis, Christ was an inconvenience, except when crucified by the Jews.

Burleigh also writes Nazis despised Christianity (page 255 of the Pan edition of the book).

The question wasn’t whether or not Hitler was a Christian, but whether or not he was an atheist.

But that research does seem to suggest that if he was a theist, he wasn’t a Christian theist.
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November 11, 2009 4:00pm
Cadmus

Brian Smaller said…If you’re looking for atheist regimes persecuting religious groups, why look further than China today?

I know Pansey Wong was born in Shanghi???? Wong and her husband have had several trips to China. Who know’s the Wong’s could have a hidden agenda??? Remember the Rosenberg’s.

Talking of Nazi Germany I new a guy that was in the Hitler Youth as a kid. He volunteered for Nam and was excepted no problem. The same guy told me that things were great in Germany until 1942 . He said he would go back to those days again if he could, everyone was happy. I asked about the killing of those undisireables. He thought it was great idea, so did eveyone else. He told me that in the end everyone (Germans) were happy and Proud to be German for once instead of being the scum of Europe. As the undisirables vanished the whole of society felt safer, more money, new goods. He said people didn’t do anything not because of fear but because the govt was doing a great job most thought? He told me they never showed the good side of Germany in the 1930’s when the rest of the world was starving and unemployed and they where having a great time. I said what happened near the end of the war. He told me nothing! his sister was in the Girls Hitler Youth our mother burned the uniforms and headed West. The house was stuffed the old man was in a prison camp in France and we started a New life in the US in 1947. He said he joined up to fight in Nam because he hated gooks! He told me half the Russian Soviet army was full of them, he rembered seeing them captured on news reels in Germany, ugly horrible little people in uniforms far to big for them. He told me the germans used to hang the gooks upside down with a rope around the feet when they captured them ,the gooks didn’t like that.

I found it quit interesting, but somethings he told me are best left off this board!
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November 11, 2009 4:04pm
Ryan Sproull

Talking of Nazi Germany I new a guy that was in the Hitler Youth as a kid. He volunteered for Nam and was excepted no problem. The same guy told me that things were great in Germany until 1942 . He said he would go back to those days again if he could, everyone was happy. I asked about the killing of those undisireables. He thought it was great idea, so did eveyone else. He told me that in the end everyone (Germans) were happy and Proud to be German for once instead of being the scum of Europe. As the undisirables vanished the whole of society felt safer, more money, new goods. He said people didn’t do anything not because of fear but because the govt was doing a great job most thought? He told me they never showed the good side of Germany in the 1930’s when the rest of the world was starving and unemployed and they where having a great time. I said what happened near the end of the war. He told me nothing! his sister was in the Girls Hitler Youth our mother burned the uniforms and headed West. The house was stuffed the old man was in a prison camp in France and we started a New life in the US in 1947. He said he joined up to fight in Nam because he hated gooks! He told me half the Russian Soviet army was full of them, he rembered seeing them captured on news reels in Germany, ugly horrible little people in uniforms far to big for them. He told me the germans used to hang the gooks upside down with a rope around the feet when they captured them ,the gooks didn’t like that.

The fellow sounds undesirable himself.
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November 11, 2009 4:22pm
Hurf Durf

Gwen Dyer, the man wrong on everything, sez the War of Terror has something to do with the Fort Hood shooting. Well, when you’re an anti-Western Marxist, any excuse will do.
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November 11, 2009 4:44pm
Cadmus

Ryan Sproull….He told be the Soviet asian gooks in WW2 had strips of cloth for socks. The germans used a lot of horses in the war which had to be well cared for. They used product still in use (Horse Liniment) which was for sprains to the horses. Something 5 times as strong as standard liniment. The Germans used to rub it on the feet of the gooks when upside down on a rope to get information. He said the gooks would holla and scream. It burnt like hell on the soft part of the bare sole. If the Gook really held out they then would grab the bottle and pull the Gooks trousers down and then show the bottle. He told me then the information flowed freely!
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November 11, 2009 5:19pm
Dirty Rat

Gordon Brown challenges mother to televised spelling bee
By Jeff Nicols
The Prime Minister has challenged the grieving mother of a soldier killed in Afghanistan to a US-style televised spelling bee in response to criticism he received after spelling her name incorrectly in a letter of condolence.

In the offending letter Brown used a thick crayon, and referred to the mother of soldier Jamie Janes by the wrong name.

“I would never show disrespect to anyone by spelling something badly,” said Mrs. Janes (Is this right? -ed.)

The Prime Minister, well known for having a head for figures, is “a dark horse when it comes to spelling”, according to one spelling expert.

“It’s kind of ironic that he misspelt her rather simple name when he gets regular practise spelling long words like Incompetence, Recession and Financial-Armageddon.”

Calligraphy

Gordon Brown drew fire of his own this week, and not all of it friendly, when he was accused not just of bad spelling but poor penmanship.

The maligned PM has reportedly taken up calligraphy in an effort to improve his writing. He is thought to be working on Baroque Hand and Champignon Serif in an effort to wow the next tranche of bereaved next of kin.

Support

Labour supporters believe the recent events work in the government’s favour, pointing out that a one-eyed man who can’t spell has much in common with the people, or at the very least should secure the crucial pirate vote.

A Conservative spokesman this week said: “I’ve been in politics for 58 years, the writing is on the wall for Labour – though to be honest you can hardly read it.”

Read more: Gordon Brown challenges grieving mother to televised spelling bee | newsarse.com http://newsarse.com/2009/11/10/gordon-brown-challenges-mother-to-televised-spelling-bee/#ixzz0WX6O6fMS
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November 11, 2009 8:16pm
Dirty Rat

Big Bruv

How much tax do you pay ?

Are you self employed so people like me can get you off tax, or are you a weasly snively little employee, whos employer has to PAYE on your behalf ?
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November 11, 2009 8:19pm
Jack5

I find Cadmus’s reports of the German’s comments (4.04 and 5.19 posts) about Asian soldiers in the Red Army repugnant.

The comments would have been about the Kalmyks, Khazahks, Buryats, and other Tatar minorities in Russia. They formed an important part of the Siberian divisions that were called westwards when the Germans threatened Moscow, and after a spy reported to Moscow that the Japanese were going to strike south towards Malaysia, IndoChina, and the SOuth Pacific rather than attack the Soviet Union in Siberia.

The Siberian divisions, tough and at home in the snow, turned the tide for Russia, and thus for all of us. They gave the German Army the critical hiding of the war at the approaches to Moscow, even more important than Stalingrad. It was such a defeat that Nazi political “cabinet minister” Fritz Todt, the builder of Germany’s superb autobahns, flew to Hitler and called on him to sue for peace with Stalin. Hitler rejected the idea, and Todt’s plane blew up on a flight away from the meeting, brought down by a bomb believed to have been planted by the SS.

The Tatar troops were excellent soldiers, and when in tank units, they adapted their ancient cavalry tactics, such as the fish-hook retreat.

The German’s comments as reported by Cadmus, are the sort of odious racism you would expect from a fanatic Nazi. Fuck him. I’m pleased our fathers and uncles (these days I guess, our grandfathers) fought such scum, and thankful they had the Red Army on their side, Tatars included.

By the way I hadn’t heard of ex-Nazis volunteering to fight in Vietnam, though earlier plenty of ex-SS troops were in the French units in the French IndoChina war, as part of a clemency deal.
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November 11, 2009 9:29pm
Jack5

As for Cadmus’s report of the Soviet Asian troops wearing strips of cloth for socks.

Such bindings were, and may still be, standard winter practice for Russian troops, and followed centuries old Russian peasant practice. Worn inside tough boots, they were virtually water proof, and withstood the bitter winter conditions better than the Germans’ socks and boots.

The Russians were also cruel to the Germans, but at least they do not boast about it, as Cadmus’s odious German obviously does (or did).
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November 11, 2009 9:44pm
nickb

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10608670
Oh well, the Maori Party is taking staunch action on Hone isn’t it?

My bet is that he will be publicly thrashed with a wet lettuce leaf, while being privately told by the kaumatua to “take the white man for all he’s got-how was Paris?”
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November 11, 2009 10:01pm
oseanain

“Tangata Whenua” = “that term we can use to make our opinion more important than anyone else’s”

I’m sceptical that even Maori themselves understand the meaning of this term. “People of the land” or anything that refers to Maori as the first people of NZ is a common definition, though I fail to see how this makes them any different from anyone else. I must apologise here now actually – I’m coming from a thread that was back in April about Harawira speaking at a policy lecture at UofA where he called one Steve Baron, a student, a racist due to the latter’s including Maori as a minority group in NZ. Which of course they are.

Basically my point is Harawira should be stood down as an MP of this country. He is not a good role model for his constituents.
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November 11, 2009 11:28pm
MikeNZ

He represents who his constituents are!
The King is the glory of the nation!
If he didn’t they wouldn’t vote for him.

So what does that say about us with Key and National?
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November 12, 2009 8:22am

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Jacinda’s legacy – Increasing number of abortions
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United Rugby Championship Predictions for Week 15
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Again, hate crimes are not necessarily terrorism.
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Despair - construction consenting edition
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ABs stripped of 2011 title after try disallowed
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Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
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Why I am retiring from political blogging
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