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155 Responses to “General Debate 11 November 2009”
John Key – “I think I speak for all New Zealanders when I say we’re all getting a bit sick of the Hone Harawira sideshow,” he said. “There are some big things going on in New Zealand. That’s where my focus of attention is.” He thought the public would be pleased Mr Harawira had delivered “an apology of sorts, and I’ll leave them to judge the merits of that apology”.
This is b*llshit John Key. We are not getting sick of hearing about it as long as nothing is done. And to say that we’re happy with some sort of apology. Further b*llshit. What sort of spin is that? JK needs to stand up and make a firm stance. A bit of principle Mr Key. It wouldn’t hurt…
JK needs to stand up and make a firm stance. A bit of principle Mr Key. It wouldn’t hurt…
Just what do you expect him to do? Hmmm
Politics is the art of the possible – Hone Harawira hold his seat courtesy of the electors of Te Tai Tokerau and can only be removed next election by them – one way or another.
Just what do you expect him to do? I’d expect he didn’t use weasle words such as “some sort of an apology” and “we’re all getting a bit sick of HH…” I’m well aware that JK has no ability to formally sanction HH but why not come out and say how apalling his actions have been? They have. He should say so.
Not1
the email was a private communication and shouldn’t be held up, plus we already know that is the reason the Maori party came into being and that the others think the same way though they voice it differently.
What is significant is that he went awol on our money and should we be allowing any Maori Party members to represent us overseas with their racists outlook and proclivities.
I agree with John Key … a private e-mail went public and all the ranters and ravers got going. Honi’s subsequent comment about Phil Goff is an amusing extravagency and he caught a whale with it … Phil Goff is a joke.
Something Chthoniid touched on yesterday – “Once Muslim communities get a bit of education and economic power, they tend to moderate quickly. It’s no surprise that it is the dark, poor corners of the Muslim world where fanaticism has the deepest hold.”
Afghanistan has a literacy rate of only 28.1% which may explain a lot. And…
For as long as anyone can remember, there was no need for paper money in this remote corner of the Hindu Kush. The common currency was what grew in everyone’s backyard — opium.
When children felt like buying candy, they ran into their father’s fields and returned with a few grams of opium folded inside a leaf. Their mothers collected it in plastic bags, trading 18 grams for a meter of fabric or two liters of cooking oil. Even a visit to the barbershop could be settled in opium.
But the economy of this village sputtered to a halt last year when the government began aggressively enforcing a ban on opium production. Villagers were not allowed to plant their only cash crop. Now shops are empty and farmers are in debt, as entire communities spiral into poverty.
Opium is one of the biggest problems facing this troubled country, because it is deeply woven into the fabric of daily life as well as into the economics of insurgency. Afghanistan supplies 93 percent of the world’s opium, and it is one of the main sources of funding for the growing Taliban movement.
From what I have seen and heard of Mr Harawira I imagine he went to the conference, heard all the whities talking back and forth for several days and realised his presence wouldn’t make any difference so why not do something useful in his life .. so he went to Paris.
Funny how there has been no call for Chris Carter and other Labour members to pay back their s[pending on travel.
They haven’t really been pinged for their travel spending by our media have they?
Another take on that jcuknz is that Harawira got bored not getting any attention being anonymous in Europe, he seems to thrive on attention here and knows how to generate it.
In yesterday’s GD I was told that I’d be killed for being an atheist in a Moslem country, and I don’t disagree with that. But not that long ago, the same fate awaited athesists in christian countries too.
Why is it that the religious kill those with whom they disagree? Do you see hordes of atheists demanding death for the religious? I don’t.
Why is iit that only atheists are capable of acting as rational human beings, the irrationaility confined to religion?
The world is much closer to running out of oil than official estimates admit, according to a whistleblower at the International Energy Agency who claims it has been deliberately underplaying a looming shortage for fear of triggering panic buying.
The phrase: “I don’t give a shit about what New Zealanders think” should never pass the lips of an MP, regardless of hue. It shows utter contempt for the institution which supplies his platform, and casts a poor reflection upon all members. the fact that he has not the intellect to understand that his conduct is un-becoming, or inversely, his comments were of deliberate design illustrates that he is unworthy to take part in the governance of this country. I firmly believe that there should be grounds for the Speaker to dismiss such members for Gross Misconduct.
1. (The PM) His comments were only a little bit racist
2. (The Maori Party)
3. (Maori Party co-vice president) “Hone was provoked by references to his wife”
4. (Hone’s Mother) He was just using your white man’s words
5. (Joris de Bres) “He was exercising his freedom of expression”
6. (The Media) A likeable bloke – a firebrand
7. (Hone Harawira) I only answer to my people
8. (Dr Ranganui Walker) “That’s Hone- he uses rich language”
9. (The Green Party) ???
10. (University Professor Rawiri Taonui) ” A natural overflow of frustrations”
And finally someone telling the truth: Ngapuhi leader David Rankin says the behaviour of Maori MP Hone Harawira has set back race relations 20 years
Demomum
I think Joris de bres should be recalled as he clearly isn’t fit for purpose saying what Hone aid wasn’t racism, he brings the office he holds into contempt and undermines any good work being done by it.
National take note, do not renew his mandate.
That it was a private email he could have said and wasn’t for his office to look at, but to say that what he (Hone) said wasn’t racist is rubbish.
But then the left has always been iffy on black racism.
Pink
I don’t think so as many of the voters of that party think the same way.
That’s why they were formed, to get back what was taken/stolen from them.
Note that Maori “only wanted their day in court” but the foreshore and seabed act was “the greatest confiscation in (recent?) history”. They only want their names on the beaches and anyone who doesn’t think that’s a good thing is racist (presumably because they don’t accept that Maori are different?).
I’m referring to thwe way the rest of NZ will now view the maori party if they dont get rid of him and the ongoing adverse affect on race relations in the country.
If all maori think (rather the talk) like Harawira then we have a major problem
PinkG
Does what the rest of us think of them matter to them?
I don’t think so.
Even though Turia and Pita make pains to come across well and engage, they occupy the same position.
I think the key potential backlash with this Harawira “sideshow” will be how much it prompts Key to sideline the Maori Party influence on governance. That is far more important (and will mostly happen beneath the public radar) than what public showing any of the politicians might make.
In yesterday’s GD I was told that I’d be killed for being an atheist in a Moslem country, and I don’t disagree with that. But not that long ago, the same fate awaited athesists in christian countries too.
Why is it that the religious kill those with whom they disagree? Do you see hordes of atheists demanding death for the religious? I don’t.
Why is iit that only atheists are capable of acting as rational human beings, the irrationaility confined to religion?
Billy – if we can have this without you going postal it could be a good discussion. I agree with you. I often wonder how people choose which particular bizarre thing to believe in while rejecting all the other bizarre things as untruths.
How dare those evil white people drag a Stone Age people out the darkness and stop them engaging in their cultural rights of slavery, cannibalism and self destructive inter-tribal warfare after they had done so much for these islands by introducing dogs and rats and defoliating a third of the land area with fire while hunting over half the native species to extinction!
Stephen, I thought the interesting part of the exchange between Paul Henry & Phil Goff on Breakfast this morning was when Paul Henry asked him if he thought there should be one law for all. To which Goff said, basically, yes of course.
Surely the logical next question from Paul Henry should have been along the lines of “So Phil, don’t you think Don Brash may have been on to something with his Orewa speech?”.
Why is it that the religious kill those with whom they disagree? Do you see hordes of atheists demanding death for the religious? I don’t.
The ‘atheist’ communist parties of the 20th C managed to kill quite a lot of people who disagreed with them.
Atheist Bolsheviks demanded the death of priests in Revolutionary Russia and got it.
Billy. Hitler was an atheist. So was Stalin. So was Pol Pot.
All three killed an enormous number of people from all manner of religious faiths, because those people either wouldn’t go along quietly with evil deeds, or simply because Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot didn’t like their religious/ethnic background.
So when you say …
Do you see hordes of atheists demanding death for the religious? I don’t
you’re just not looking hard enough. Maybe if you opened both of your eyes you might see things in a more mature light.
all those with a brain..and an historical awareness would..
Dear Phil – those with historical awareness know that the pre-European Maori were a brutal and barbaric people who slaughtered one another willy nilly. It was a culture where the consequences of women and children falling into the hands of their enemies was so horrific they committed mass suicide to avoid it.
My goodness Phil Europeans did Maori a great favour dragging them out of that ghastly and hellish barbarity.
Modern idiots are sucked into going for this grievance crap which is why we have clowns like Harawira in Parliament.
virtualmark, yes that would’ve been interesting. I think Goff would’ve gone for a bit of nuance (‘there is a difference between ‘common law’ and targetted government programs – which i’m in favour of – so no i don’t agree with the content of the speech’), but getting Goff to say that he thought Hone was a racist and that he’d had a gutsful of this sort of thing was pretty frickin’ significant too.
“..Dear Phil – those with historical awareness know that the pre-European Maori were a brutal and barbaric people who slaughtered one another willy nilly..”
andrei..pre-european maori europeans..
were also ‘ a brutal and barbaric people who slaughtered one another willy nilly..”
The ‘atheist’ communist parties of the 20th C managed to kill quite a lot of people who disagreed with them.
Atheist Bolsheviks demanded the death of priests in Revolutionary Russia and got it.
You seem close to asserting that they were murderous because they were atheists, and not because they were power crazy wingnuts who happened to be atheists. I suppose it could have been a factor, but a very minor one compared with the main motivation.
Something Chthoniid touched on yesterday – “Once Muslim communities get a bit of education and economic power, they tend to moderate quickly. It’s no surprise that it is the dark, poor corners of the Muslim world where fanaticism has the deepest hold.”
Phileewwww, throwing money at them hasn’t worked. Its up to maori to choose to better themselves. As long as they rely on others for handouts and compensation, their fate will remain unchanged.
Ok so when people with a religion kill its because of that religion, but when people without one kill its because they’re bad and the lack of a faith based system (which is arguable) is just coincidence.
I’d expect he didn’t use weasle words such as “some sort of an apology” and “we’re all getting a bit sick of HH…” I’m well aware that JK has no ability to formally sanction HH but why not come out and say how apalling his actions have been? They have. He should say so.
I dunno, putting it this way kind of deflates Hone’s stance. I think Key is pretty clever in this respect.
Ok so when people with a religion kill its because of that religion, but when people without one kill its because they’re bad and the lack of a faith based system (which is arguable) is just coincidence.
Is that your final answer stephen?
Eh…i would possibly lean towards their ‘people’s utopia’ as being their ‘faith based system’, really. Is that what you meant be “lack of a faith based system (which is arguable)”?
You seem close to asserting that they were murderous because they were atheists, and not because they were power crazy wingnuts who happened to be atheists. I suppose it could have been a factor, but a very minor one compared with the main motivation.
No, I’m trying to point out the absurdity of the ‘atheism good, religion bad’ stance.
But Marx was definitely not a fan of religion – and that influenced Communist attempts to (violently) suppress Christianity.
Toad another snide and boder line defamatory claim without substantiation. Make an overt asertion or get back to your filing.
Always ready to throw red herrings into the mix but never quite up to addressing the issue. If you were an independant person it might not matter but you’re a paid party mouthpiece so put up.
Ok so when people with a religion kill its because of that religion, but when people without one kill its because they’re bad and the lack of a faith based system (which is arguable) is just coincidence.
Murray, i think stephens point is that when religion kills, it uses religion itself (however weak a justification that may be) to justify the killings. A prime example of this would be the Hugenot massacres.
I’m not aware of any such events anywhere where atheists have rounded up an entire religious sect and exterminated them solely because of their beliefs.
As an aside, did any of you hear the result of a survey in the UK where 25% (or something – i am sure one of the pendatic types here will correct this) of school kids thought that Adolf Hitler was a football manager and that Auschwitz was a theme park?
I direct to his behaviour. I’m not your research assistant.
You can’t really direct to his behaviour without falling into the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
It seems he was brought up Catholic, admired aspects of Protestantism, and promoted Positive Christianity, which was a kind of Nazi Christianity. Can’t find any reason to think he was an atheist.
“I’m not aware of any such events anywhere where atheists have rounded up an entire religious sect and exterminated them solely because of their beliefs.”
The Holocaust? Or are we back arguing about whether the Germans etc were atheists?
Ryan, I think an overall look at Hitler’s view on religion and faith suggest he was all over the map. He recognised that Christianity was a key part of Germany’s heritage, but appeared to only recognise a unique subset of Christian faith which had been shorn of many of its key precepts which, presumably, he’d found objectionable. He recognised the political power the church could deploy in a Western European country, and didn’t want to antagonise them. Based on what I’ve read I’d also hazard a guess that Hitler didn’t believe in a God, as such, as in a specific deity who you could have a personal relationship with.
He also held a range of occultic and paganist beliefs too, albeit less than many of the other senior Nazi’s (particularly Himmler).
I think fair to say Hitler’s main foundation for his beliefs and values (ie his religion) was really all about Germany, and having a total devotion and love and commitment to the Fatherland.
So technically perhaps the best term for Hitler’s personal beliefs then is that he was a syncretist (the everyday term for Hitler’s personal beliefs is that he was a nutcase).
But the term atheist broadly covers that. Atheists believe there are no deities, and reject theism. Within that umbrella definition you have a range of “classes” … the scientific rationalists, the humanists, and many others with their own concoctions of beliefs that still exclude any deity.
Anyone else not really suprised that Ryan can quote Mein Kampf?
Grow up, Murray. A simple Google search gives you the full text of any number of books. You can search through for references to God yourself, if you like.
Phil has a point – Whilst the Maori were/are barbaric, European’s have a lot of blood on their hands – 100 year war, the Crusades, Agincourt and the Act of Union for both Ireland and Scotland wasn’t exactly obtained peacefully or by any gentleman manner…
HJ – Very interesting lecture, I take it you are from Otago? As a young person/student I’m guilty of associating a good night with binge drinking and when I was younger, like many, I was found in some similar positions – However I do agree that the 5 point plan would combat the drinking problem especially with restricting the sale of alcohol in supermarkets. Whilst it is a great convenience, I know of many times it has got to 2330 and we have run out of booze – ‘ohwell lets go to either countdown or the 247′.
Personally I am skeptical as to whether a price increase would change the situation…. I think it would make those who don’t drink often think twice before buying a drink – but like gambling and smoking a price increase will mean for many families that the children will have to miss another meal because dad needs his Woodstock and bourbon. Those with dependency as we know do not think rationally and they will continue to purchase their drug regardless of social or financial cost to themselves or family.
So technically perhaps the best term for Hitler’s personal beliefs then is that he was a syncretist (the everyday term for Hitler’s personal beliefs is that he was a nutcase).
But the term atheist broadly covers that. Atheists believe there are no deities, and reject theism. Within that umbrella definition you have a range of “classes” … the scientific rationalists, the humanists, and many others with their own concoctions of beliefs that still exclude any deity.
I think that would be stretching the definition a little too far.
He is quoted as saying, “As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.” Of course, you could dismiss that as playing to an audience, but you could claim that anyone was anything by doing the same.
Which Party introduced the Foreshore and Seabed Act?
Which Party voted against it because they said it did not go far enough in ensuring Maori rights to the foreshore and seabed were extinguished and then ran the Iwi-Kiwi election billboards?
It seems some of you guys have got it all arsey-boo. While I don’t condone his language, Hone is factually correct when he says:
“White motherfuckers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries, and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullshit.”
The Foreshore and Seabed Act is merely the latest in a long history of rip-offs perpetrated, both legally and illegally, by colonists and their descendents against Maori.
Who are the real racists here – those who systematically set out to deprive Maori of their land and culture, or those who may use some rather colourful language to describe that?
BTW – I don’t for one moment support Hone rorting the taxpayer on his Paris trip.
You may well be correct in the term “an entire sect”.
What most people are pointing to is Atheist regimes in the past directing there powers against others and in particular the religious groups in their territory.
It is going on today where authority is directing state and non state actors against a particular religion.
Both these organisations will give you enough info in their e-letters to join the dots.
ww.gfa.ord
www,vom.org
DPF mentioned in an earlier post women taking over various male roles in employment. In my view if they can do the job I have no problem with that.
Then of course we have our “Token” woman in roles.
I look at the make up of Cabinet we have two women spongers who don’t earn their salary in my book.
Georgina Tehue Hue….. I thought Pita Sharples was Minister of Maori Affairs?what contribution is she making we never hear from her?
Pansey Wong…… Well theres a little Trougher if I ever saw one! A guy in the National Party told me the only reason Wong got a cabinet position was Public Safety !! After seeing Wongs driving ability they believed a chauffeur driven car was the only option, well who could blame them?
Wong & Te Hue Hue are only there in my view for 3 reasons.
They are both women.
They are both from ethnic minorities
They both would be incapable of winning an electorate seat.
So we see that the Media is attacking only male MP’s ….Wow feminism is alive and growing under a National/ACT Govt.
No doubt Burt, Brian Smaller, Adolf F, & Co will be supporting the two National Party Princesses!
“White people have been raping our lands for centuries”
MOA EXTERMINATION
The fastest known extinction of a megafauna …
Moa had only one natural predator – the huge Haast’s eagle (Harpagornis moorei), the largest eagle ever known with a wing span of ten feet and talons as big as tiger’s claws. But life in a bird’s paradise could not last, and after millions of years moas quickly ended up in human cooking pits, and much of their habitat was destroyed by fire.
“… human hunting and habitat destruction drove the eleven species of moa to extinction less than 100 years after Polynesian settlement of New Zealand …”
R. N. Holdaway & C. Jacomb, Rapid Extinction of the Moas (Aves: Dinornithiformes): Model, Test, and Implications, Science, March 24 2000
The Holdaway and Jacomb study explored the impact on moa population of low exploitation levels by an initial population of 100 people, coupled with the habitat loss caused by them. Conservative analysis used low to medium human population growth rates, minimal rates of habitat removal in two areas of the two main islands, and the lowest cropping rates. The total population of all species of moas at the time of human settlement was 158,000 birds, and only consumption of adult moas over one year old was considered. It is known that consumption of moa eggs was considerable, but was ignored in the study.
Moas, like most long-lived birds, were most vulnerable to any increase in adult mortality. When subjected to a low level of human predation, moas required an impossible increase in births to maintain their numbers. Even without habitat loss that is known to have occured during the extinction period, the most conservative analysis suggests that moas were extinct within 160 years of human arrival.
Revised radiocarbon dating of charcoal in campsites, place the earliest arrival of moa hunters, Polynesians who were the ancestors of Maori, in the 13th century instead of the 11th century as previously thought. Archeological research of dismembered moa bones in campsites show that they were not killed after the 14th century. The short period during which moa were eaten out of existence is a mere blink in the geological time of moa life.
In a commentary on the study, Dr Jared Diamond claims that in New Zealand, Madagascar and many Pacific Islands, few would deny that the first arriving humans caused mass extinction, and the only question is how fast it occurred and whether hunting was the only cause. He said the new study “shows that moa extinctions were very fast and were mainly by hunting”.
Dr Ross MacPhee who is a mammalogist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York and has studied ancient extinctions, says “there is no way of interpreting this record other than that it had to happen virtually overnight … this is easily the best instance of overkill, of blitzkreig, on the record”.
I would say not. Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Reminding people that white people have historically ripped off Maori – which is a fact – is not racism. It would become racist if he had asserted that white people were pre-disposed by their ethnicity to rip other people off. But he did not.
“In the first half of the nineteenth century, however, individual iwi considered carrying their martial culture beyond the shores of New Zealand. At least three expeditions of conquest were planned: to Samoa, to Norfolk Island, and to the Chatham Islands, which did not become part of New Zealand until 1842. All these proposed expeditions were dependent on finding transport to those places: and that meant finding a European ship’s captain whose vessel was available for charter; or it meant Maori commandeering a vessel for the purpose.
In the event there were no expeditions to Norfolk Island or to Samoa because the necessary transport was not secured. But there was an invasion of the Chathams Islands. Two Taranaki tribes then based in Wellington, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga ki Poneke, hijacked a European vessel in 1835 and had themselves—a total of 900 people—delivered to Chatham Islands. There they takahi’d or walked the land to claim it; ritually killed around 300 Chatham Moriori out of a total of around 1600, and enslaved the survivors—separating husbands from wives, parents from children, forbidding them to speak their own language or practise their own customs, and forcing them to violate the tapus of their culture, whose mana was based on the rejection of violence.
Was this a superior form of colonisation to that imposed by European on Maori? Did it respect the dignity and customs of the colonised? Did it acknowledge the mana whenua of the tchakat henu or indigenous people of the Chathams? It did not. It was what might now be called an exercise in ethnic cleansing. When Bishop Selwyn arrived in the islands in 1848, it was to discover that the Maori called Moriori “Paraiwhara” or “Blackfellas”; and it was to report that the Moriori population continued to decline at a suicidal rate as a consequence of kongenge or despair. Moriori slaves were not released and New Zealand law was not established on the islands until 1862, twenty years after they had become part of New Zealand. And it is that twenty years of neglect of fiduciary duty on the part of the Crown that is the basis for the Moriori claim to the Waitangi Tribunal, heard in 1994, but still not reported upon. ” http://sof.wellington.net.nz/origins.htm
toad, if the prevailing position (from the enlightened such as yourself) is that whitey deserves the abuse because of historical grievances then can we assume that treaty settlements and race relations have been a waste of time? Since my childhood it has seemed to be the duty of pakeha to make special allowances for maori because of events that happened long before I was born. Taking your stance in conjunction with Hone’s, I can only assume that no matter what pakeha do in this generation we won’t see any progress towards racial harmony. The question then becomes why bother? I didn’t kill, rape or steal from any maori (although I have previously been bashed by maori, and had property stolen from me by maori).
Racism is deeply embedded in NZ, but it’s the opposite of what you make it out to be.
”
Reminding people that white people have historically ripped off Maori – which is a fact – is not racism. It would become racist if he had asserted that white people were pre-disposed by their ethnicity to rip other people off. But he did not.”
what about assuming that Maori guardianship of foreshore and seabed is superior to non Maori’s and not fraught with normal human foibles (not to mention assuming a superior relationship with that F & S)?
remember also this is all a matter of “cultural identity”: Margaret Mutu’s mother is Scottish but she sees pakeha opposition to her tribes ownership of foreshore and seabed as based on racism.
@toad I take umbrage at the term “white people” when referring to New Zealand’s colonialists. It’s such an ugly classification and so broad as to be meaningless.
Right Now you say…. “your misogyny isn’t welcome”,..Interesting I don’t see you mentioning the same to others concerning Hone Harawira? so whats the difference between Wong and Hirawara ? They both feast from the same trough!
Check out the real raids story: Observe how our system works and how it covers itself over to stop the public from using their brains. Simply because you do not rape or pillage, or even act in any way or manner that could be determined as bad behaviour, if you permit and condone its functionality then you are as much a part of its damage as you would be alienated from its purpose.
kiwisfirst.com http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/arrest-made-contempt-case-114740
I would say not. Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Reminding people that white people have historically ripped off Maori – which is a fact – is not racism. It would become racist if he had asserted that white people were pre-disposed by their ethnicity to rip other people off. But he did not.”
There we go, Green party stance is that Hone has done nothing wrong in terms of racist behaviour. Its ok for Maori to be racist because they are victims.
Kiwi Greg – Germany under Hitler also killed anybody affiliated to freemasonry, but then like you said we have to assume that the NAZI regime was atheist.
Take the political puffery out of the article, and there is no evidence for anthropogenic climate catastrophe.
The science involved is merely about better understanding the mechanisms by which ice sheets undergo melting.
The Ice sheets and glaciers have been melting for 10,000 years and we have previously had ice free poles. As the scientific detail in that article goes to show, the ice cover at the poles has alot to do with geography as well as atmospheric temperature.
We are coming out of an ice age Jeff, the North Sea used to be land, polar bears were in the mediterranean. This is old science, catch up.
Antarctica isn’t melting the way end of the worlders claim it should be so a clutching-at-straws explanation of why it isn’t melting is worthy of an orgasm by those who are vainly clinging onto catastrophism as their last hope in advancing the cause of socialistic world government – all in the name of saving the planet.
I reason that the term ‘mother f’r’ is more about a person who cuddles up to their mother’s protection than in fact engage in sexual activity with her. This means, given the legislation that I refer under the Broadcasting Act 1989, that Hone was perfectly correct. Where are men protected to broadcasting in New Zealand? How can this legislation be given entitlement in a gender discrimination free New Zealand? It was interesting that when Kathryn Ryan from Radio New Zealand National, nine to noon, couldn’t get an interview with him, they interviewed his mother.
“I reason that the term ‘mother f’r’ is more about a person who cuddles up to their mother’s protection than in fact engage in sexual activity with her.”
You reason incorrectly. I sugest you look into the meaning of the word “fuck”.
John Allen Muhammad, the convicted D.C. sniper, is scheduled for execution in Virginia Tuesday night, after Gov. Tim Kaine (D) denied a request for clemency Tuesday afternoon.
John Allen Muhammad, the convicted D.C. sniper, is scheduled for execution in Virginia Tuesday night, after Gov. Tim Kaine (D) denied a request for clemency Tuesday afternoon.
Sonny Blount said: Toad, did you not see the poll results of Maori voters. Green Party 3%. Try something else.
I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.
And, anyway, before the Maori Party came along, Greens polled better among Maori than we did among the general population – it’s just that the Maori Party took most of the Maori voters taht used to vote Green.
The Ice sheets and glaciers have been melting for 10,000 years and we have previously had ice free poles.
Quite correct. In fact, The history of the earth tells us that it is abnormal to have ice at the poles. The normal, non-ice age state of flux for the planet is to have no permanent ice shelves, period.
I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties in that they’re in power and the greens are irrelevantfringe loonies.
I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.
Yes, you are so principled and superior toad, it really is a shame that 93% of people disagree with your facts. According to climate change idiots that is a consensus and you’re a fringe loony nutter.
I took the BNZ into a judicial review of an advertisement they coordinated and funded called NZ’s Biggest Morning Tea on behalf of Preventing Violence in the Home Inc. It was openly gender discriminatory showing four dads assaulting children – they successfully applied to have the proceedings against them ’struck out’. Justice Randerson (Chief High Court judge) struck them out alright – but not as the bank would have liked. He struck them out because I had ‘no standing’ but not because I was wrong. What i proved was that the bank instead was in full breach of their international codes and obligations on marketing, in particular to children but as well under the general principles. They simply had not paid the restrictions any attention at all – absolute arrogance.
The point I make about the proceedings is that I complained that men as fathers no longer have any standing in New Zealand and the judge fully agreed with me striking out my proceeding because I had no standing. From your point, the issue I raise is that unless the public are actively challenging corruption and corporate theft the perpetrators will simply get away with it. I beat the bank – not that anyone effectively knows about it or as you probably point out, cares.
those who are vainly clinging onto catastrophism as their last hope in advancing the cause of socialistic world government – all in the name of saving the planet.
The New World Order is a lot more cunning than using something scientifically provable such as climate change as their catalyst.
They are much more likely to fool the foolish from within – say, to promote some pretty face from a remote state to headline a movement they are backing their saviour, and they pull the strings at the most popular “news” network in the country, so d under the sheep’s noses the capitalists make their big move.
Or are you trying to suggest that the downing of the Berlin wall and crumbling of communism was a feint move?
The first issue is sovereignty and for it to be rightfully returned. That can be spanned to a date and pinned lawfully to a review of the concept, set prior to the date. Let’s say 20 years for simple arguments sake.
The model of authority should resemble the Supercity body of five, although instead of two seats it should have one allocated to Maori with a deciding vote to reengage the matters before it using a different process or to issue a question for binding referendum. The security of vote is an equitable system through the present two different electoral roles.
Two judicial systems are established and run concurrently much like Sharma law. These are accessible to all and their constitutions should be the cause of debate over the period of settling the constitution of the nation. Maori Parliament is established at Waitangi and has direct access into central Government – with the body elect of five the top court and an effective upper house.
I know you didn’t ask me but those are my ideas anyway.
In our capital city executive officers duped their councilors into making ‘buses’ the catalyst and ‘catalyst’ to make ‘buses priority’ over pedestrians – all fed with a Snapper. Infratil is about to take over New Zealand’s capital. Global warming and the swine flu are simply instruments of effect.
This used to be the land of sheep but that concept should be put to the freezer and replaced with all being milkers.
Fascism and Communism (Lenins and Maos) are secular religions. the Marxist sect always end an argument by simply referring to “the book” as – but its not what Marx says.
When people hold any set of beliefs with enough conviction it becomes easy to rationalise imprisoning or killing those who refuse to conform.
The latest secular religion – environmentalism – has many prophets who advocate imprisoning people who are skeptical of climate change or suggest that AIDS is the earth mothers’ way of reducing population.
Most religions whether secular or spiritual find a climate of fear is a useful too for maintaining discipline and conformity with the code.
Your religion or belief is an ideology. Mine is simply natural common sense.
in my view our justice system should be tiered without the judiciary permitting a set sentence, only by recommendation for observing the presented facts. Where you start in the system is from where you have to work. The bottom tier starts at a religious place one above a clean room with a red button.
Owen McShane
I agree but fear is the market of freedom. Until that market is reduced to a size manageable by common sense we are on a cycle requiring something as dramatic as aids to control behaviours and population.
Ryan Sproull at 10.10 asked for references for Hitler’s atheism, and later suggested Hitler promoted something called positive Christianity.
Here’s a good solid reference Ryan. Michael Burleigh, one of the top historical authorities on Hitler, in his 2000 book: The Third Reich, a New History. See the last chapter in Part Nine, “Men of God”.
Hitler’s views in his own words:
Christianity is nothing but ” wholehearted Bolshevism under a tinsel of methaphysics”.
And Christianity is “an invention of sick brains” and Hitler asked: “Who is this God who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.
And, pertinent to the Pacific: “.. a Negro with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation…”
And “.. I dream of a state of affairs in which every man would know that he lives and dies for the preservation of the species…”
Burleigh says elsewhere in the book that for the Nazis, Christ was an inconvenience, except when crucified by the Jews.
Burleigh also writes Nazis despised Christianity (page 255 of the Pan edition of the book).
Yes Leonidas – this is what I have said – one law for all. What I have written creates different points of access into that law, it disassembles the rigidity and fractious nature of law which is policed to fear which is a corporate investment alienating of social policy allowing the latter to be commandeered by something as broad as feminism or homosexuality.
Phil Goff has a problem with his position at present given that he signed off as the Queen on an application of mine for the Royal Prerogative of Mercy identifying a breach of sovereignty through comity in the Court of Appeal. He has much to answer for and if Hone is stating that he should be put up against a wall – then it is very likely he is referring to this – given that Hone is the nation’s own catalyst to expose injustices. I have already made my view on such sentences and don’t see any necessity for Goff to be put to a test rather than recognising openly and proactively exactly what it is that he knows he is hiding.
toad said “I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.
And, anyway, before the Maori Party came along, Greens polled better among Maori than we did among the general population – it’s just that the Maori Party took most of the Maori voters taht used to vote Green.”
Sounds like a bad case of the green-eyed monster (or should that be Green-eyed) toad. I thought you guys operated on the philosphy that individual choice was a GOOD thing
Although Nazi policy at first seemed to tolerate church autonomy, it soon became clear that official tolerance of Christian religious groups would last only as long as the churches accepted synchronization–the alignment of the church, along with other areas of society, with Nazi goals.
The Nazi government attempted to supplant Christian worship with secular Nazi party celebrations which adopted many symbols of religious ritual but instead glorified the party and the Fuehrer.
Big Bruv the benefit system goes in for full review. However, at it lowest tier there is a basic rate accessible to long term or willing unemployed. It is low and accommodated to residential community care including food and power and sits above the prison system. This region of social backing is traversed by any prisoner coming out of the penal system and used as a platform for reintegration into the system.
I haven’t had much cause to engage the rationalities of the health system ‘yet’ – but the system of tier is the fundamental principle, you enter the health system by need rather than for cost. A human has a right to a civilized existence and that can only be implemented where common sense is a language of communication.
I didn’t say that you had to – I suggest we run a system embodied under two functional principles in existence. You pay for a system anyway. It isn’t you who gives Maori money, just like it isn’t you who pays for the unemployed – it is the politicians. You agree to let them make decisions and they get back to you consulting with what they do. Optimally they do this with care and consideration – very unlike the WCC allowing Infratil to take a city and eventually a nation.
Your impression that your money is used for anything specific other than for the benefit of an operating system is wrong. You pay tax.
You don’t own the money when you give it to the Crown. They own it. To think otherwise is to drift along in a mind set of self importance and the very reason I complain (and prove) about complacency: Please, think about it, it is avery important junction in democracy, its purpose, and the how and why of how it is abused. The WCC and Infratil, the BNZ, the HRC and all of these activities letting you think you are something more important to them than a cash cow exposes the facts that slip by when you think you have any real control about what it is they feed you. .The Maori system is different from this. In that system the human is the principal.
The political scrutiny recently isn’t simply because corruption appeared before the country – like it did not exist or was not seen previously. Nor was it specifically to do with the recession as if that in itself was an independent cause: it was because some folk decided to ask the right questions and make the proper demands. After a while of badgering and standing one’s ground some folk who have power eventually have to concede. What I am asking you to consider is that the regimes established in NZ government linking into the courts and over a considerable period have calcified corrupted practices. They can do it because they own and distribute the money you earn. Until they are drawn to a monitored regulation of effect then there will be no proper free system and fear will be maintained and abused as the market of that freedom.
Ryan Sproull at 10.10 asked for references for Hitler’s atheism, and later suggested Hitler promoted something called positive Christianity.
I didn’t suggest, I cited historical fact.
Here’s a good solid reference Ryan. Michael Burleigh, one of the top historical authorities on Hitler, in his 2000 book: The Third Reich, a New History. See the last chapter in Part Nine, “Men of God”.
Hitler’s views in his own words:
Christianity is nothing but ” wholehearted Bolshevism under a tinsel of methaphysics”.
And Christianity is “an invention of sick brains” and Hitler asked: “Who is this God who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.
And, pertinent to the Pacific: “.. a Negro with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation…”
And “.. I dream of a state of affairs in which every man would know that he lives and dies for the preservation of the species…”
Burleigh says elsewhere in the book that for the Nazis, Christ was an inconvenience, except when crucified by the Jews.
Burleigh also writes Nazis despised Christianity (page 255 of the Pan edition of the book).
The question wasn’t whether or not Hitler was a Christian, but whether or not he was an atheist.
But that research does seem to suggest that if he was a theist, he wasn’t a Christian theist.
Brian Smaller said…If you’re looking for atheist regimes persecuting religious groups, why look further than China today?
I know Pansey Wong was born in Shanghi???? Wong and her husband have had several trips to China. Who know’s the Wong’s could have a hidden agenda??? Remember the Rosenberg’s.
Talking of Nazi Germany I new a guy that was in the Hitler Youth as a kid. He volunteered for Nam and was excepted no problem. The same guy told me that things were great in Germany until 1942 . He said he would go back to those days again if he could, everyone was happy. I asked about the killing of those undisireables. He thought it was great idea, so did eveyone else. He told me that in the end everyone (Germans) were happy and Proud to be German for once instead of being the scum of Europe. As the undisirables vanished the whole of society felt safer, more money, new goods. He said people didn’t do anything not because of fear but because the govt was doing a great job most thought? He told me they never showed the good side of Germany in the 1930’s when the rest of the world was starving and unemployed and they where having a great time. I said what happened near the end of the war. He told me nothing! his sister was in the Girls Hitler Youth our mother burned the uniforms and headed West. The house was stuffed the old man was in a prison camp in France and we started a New life in the US in 1947. He said he joined up to fight in Nam because he hated gooks! He told me half the Russian Soviet army was full of them, he rembered seeing them captured on news reels in Germany, ugly horrible little people in uniforms far to big for them. He told me the germans used to hang the gooks upside down with a rope around the feet when they captured them ,the gooks didn’t like that.
I found it quit interesting, but somethings he told me are best left off this board!
Talking of Nazi Germany I new a guy that was in the Hitler Youth as a kid. He volunteered for Nam and was excepted no problem. The same guy told me that things were great in Germany until 1942 . He said he would go back to those days again if he could, everyone was happy. I asked about the killing of those undisireables. He thought it was great idea, so did eveyone else. He told me that in the end everyone (Germans) were happy and Proud to be German for once instead of being the scum of Europe. As the undisirables vanished the whole of society felt safer, more money, new goods. He said people didn’t do anything not because of fear but because the govt was doing a great job most thought? He told me they never showed the good side of Germany in the 1930’s when the rest of the world was starving and unemployed and they where having a great time. I said what happened near the end of the war. He told me nothing! his sister was in the Girls Hitler Youth our mother burned the uniforms and headed West. The house was stuffed the old man was in a prison camp in France and we started a New life in the US in 1947. He said he joined up to fight in Nam because he hated gooks! He told me half the Russian Soviet army was full of them, he rembered seeing them captured on news reels in Germany, ugly horrible little people in uniforms far to big for them. He told me the germans used to hang the gooks upside down with a rope around the feet when they captured them ,the gooks didn’t like that.
Gwen Dyer, the man wrong on everything, sez the War of Terror has something to do with the Fort Hood shooting. Well, when you’re an anti-Western Marxist, any excuse will do.
Ryan Sproull….He told be the Soviet asian gooks in WW2 had strips of cloth for socks. The germans used a lot of horses in the war which had to be well cared for. They used product still in use (Horse Liniment) which was for sprains to the horses. Something 5 times as strong as standard liniment. The Germans used to rub it on the feet of the gooks when upside down on a rope to get information. He said the gooks would holla and scream. It burnt like hell on the soft part of the bare sole. If the Gook really held out they then would grab the bottle and pull the Gooks trousers down and then show the bottle. He told me then the information flowed freely!
Gordon Brown challenges mother to televised spelling bee
By Jeff Nicols
The Prime Minister has challenged the grieving mother of a soldier killed in Afghanistan to a US-style televised spelling bee in response to criticism he received after spelling her name incorrectly in a letter of condolence.
In the offending letter Brown used a thick crayon, and referred to the mother of soldier Jamie Janes by the wrong name.
“I would never show disrespect to anyone by spelling something badly,” said Mrs. Janes (Is this right? -ed.)
The Prime Minister, well known for having a head for figures, is “a dark horse when it comes to spelling”, according to one spelling expert.
“It’s kind of ironic that he misspelt her rather simple name when he gets regular practise spelling long words like Incompetence, Recession and Financial-Armageddon.”
Calligraphy
Gordon Brown drew fire of his own this week, and not all of it friendly, when he was accused not just of bad spelling but poor penmanship.
The maligned PM has reportedly taken up calligraphy in an effort to improve his writing. He is thought to be working on Baroque Hand and Champignon Serif in an effort to wow the next tranche of bereaved next of kin.
Support
Labour supporters believe the recent events work in the government’s favour, pointing out that a one-eyed man who can’t spell has much in common with the people, or at the very least should secure the crucial pirate vote.
A Conservative spokesman this week said: “I’ve been in politics for 58 years, the writing is on the wall for Labour – though to be honest you can hardly read it.”
I find Cadmus’s reports of the German’s comments (4.04 and 5.19 posts) about Asian soldiers in the Red Army repugnant.
The comments would have been about the Kalmyks, Khazahks, Buryats, and other Tatar minorities in Russia. They formed an important part of the Siberian divisions that were called westwards when the Germans threatened Moscow, and after a spy reported to Moscow that the Japanese were going to strike south towards Malaysia, IndoChina, and the SOuth Pacific rather than attack the Soviet Union in Siberia.
The Siberian divisions, tough and at home in the snow, turned the tide for Russia, and thus for all of us. They gave the German Army the critical hiding of the war at the approaches to Moscow, even more important than Stalingrad. It was such a defeat that Nazi political “cabinet minister” Fritz Todt, the builder of Germany’s superb autobahns, flew to Hitler and called on him to sue for peace with Stalin. Hitler rejected the idea, and Todt’s plane blew up on a flight away from the meeting, brought down by a bomb believed to have been planted by the SS.
The Tatar troops were excellent soldiers, and when in tank units, they adapted their ancient cavalry tactics, such as the fish-hook retreat.
The German’s comments as reported by Cadmus, are the sort of odious racism you would expect from a fanatic Nazi. Fuck him. I’m pleased our fathers and uncles (these days I guess, our grandfathers) fought such scum, and thankful they had the Red Army on their side, Tatars included.
By the way I hadn’t heard of ex-Nazis volunteering to fight in Vietnam, though earlier plenty of ex-SS troops were in the French units in the French IndoChina war, as part of a clemency deal.
As for Cadmus’s report of the Soviet Asian troops wearing strips of cloth for socks.
Such bindings were, and may still be, standard winter practice for Russian troops, and followed centuries old Russian peasant practice. Worn inside tough boots, they were virtually water proof, and withstood the bitter winter conditions better than the Germans’ socks and boots.
The Russians were also cruel to the Germans, but at least they do not boast about it, as Cadmus’s odious German obviously does (or did).
My bet is that he will be publicly thrashed with a wet lettuce leaf, while being privately told by the kaumatua to “take the white man for all he’s got-how was Paris?”
“Tangata Whenua” = “that term we can use to make our opinion more important than anyone else’s”
I’m sceptical that even Maori themselves understand the meaning of this term. “People of the land” or anything that refers to Maori as the first people of NZ is a common definition, though I fail to see how this makes them any different from anyone else. I must apologise here now actually – I’m coming from a thread that was back in April about Harawira speaking at a policy lecture at UofA where he called one Steve Baron, a student, a racist due to the latter’s including Maori as a minority group in NZ. Which of course they are.
Basically my point is Harawira should be stood down as an MP of this country. He is not a good role model for his constituents.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:08 am
What says more about the West: that we refrain from an anti-Muslim backlash, or that progressives are convinced that one is about to happen?
November 11th, 2009 at 8:18 am
I dunno Grant, but let’s talk about religion.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:20 am
John Key – “I think I speak for all New Zealanders when I say we’re all getting a bit sick of the Hone Harawira sideshow,” he said. “There are some big things going on in New Zealand. That’s where my focus of attention is.” He thought the public would be pleased Mr Harawira had delivered “an apology of sorts, and I’ll leave them to judge the merits of that apology”.
This is b*llshit John Key. We are not getting sick of hearing about it as long as nothing is done. And to say that we’re happy with some sort of apology. Further b*llshit. What sort of spin is that? JK needs to stand up and make a firm stance. A bit of principle Mr Key. It wouldn’t hurt…
November 11th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Just what do you expect him to do? Hmmm
Politics is the art of the possible – Hone Harawira hold his seat courtesy of the electors of Te Tai Tokerau and can only be removed next election by them – one way or another.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Just what do you expect him to do? I’d expect he didn’t use weasle words such as “some sort of an apology” and “we’re all getting a bit sick of HH…” I’m well aware that JK has no ability to formally sanction HH but why not come out and say how apalling his actions have been? They have. He should say so.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Lets Billy
What a great way to start the day off.
This article talks about religion or how in the west some are trying not to make any mention of it.
We here in the benign pacific are luckier than most that we don’t have the numbers to make it an issue.
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=YjVmN2E4MjQwZTZkMDgyNTZiMTIxNzhjYzcxZTAxNzI=
Not1
the email was a private communication and shouldn’t be held up, plus we already know that is the reason the Maori party came into being and that the others think the same way though they voice it differently.
What is significant is that he went awol on our money and should we be allowing any Maori Party members to represent us overseas with their racists outlook and proclivities.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:35 am
I agree with John Key … a private e-mail went public and all the ranters and ravers got going. Honi’s subsequent comment about Phil Goff is an amusing extravagency and he caught a whale with it … Phil Goff is a joke.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Something Chthoniid touched on yesterday – “Once Muslim communities get a bit of education and economic power, they tend to moderate quickly. It’s no surprise that it is the dark, poor corners of the Muslim world where fanaticism has the deepest hold.”
Afghanistan has a literacy rate of only 28.1% which may explain a lot. And…
November 11th, 2009 at 8:42 am
From what I have seen and heard of Mr Harawira I imagine he went to the conference, heard all the whities talking back and forth for several days and realised his presence wouldn’t make any difference so why not do something useful in his life .. so he went to Paris.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Funny how there has been no call for Chris Carter and other Labour members to pay back their s[pending on travel.
They haven’t really been pinged for their travel spending by our media have they?
November 11th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Another take on that jcuknz is that Harawira got bored not getting any attention being anonymous in Europe, he seems to thrive on attention here and knows how to generate it.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:48 am
MikeNZ, the problem isn’t Islam, it is religion.
In yesterday’s GD I was told that I’d be killed for being an atheist in a Moslem country, and I don’t disagree with that. But not that long ago, the same fate awaited athesists in christian countries too.
Why is it that the religious kill those with whom they disagree? Do you see hordes of atheists demanding death for the religious? I don’t.
Why is iit that only atheists are capable of acting as rational human beings, the irrationaility confined to religion?
November 11th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I see the zealot bible basher is with us again. Testify Brother Billy!
You don’t look like myopic buffoon at all.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am
The world is much closer to running out of oil than official estimates admit, according to a whistleblower at the International Energy Agency who claims it has been deliberately underplaying a looming shortage for fear of triggering panic buying.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/peak-oil-international-energy-agency
November 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am
The phrase: “I don’t give a shit about what New Zealanders think” should never pass the lips of an MP, regardless of hue. It shows utter contempt for the institution which supplies his platform, and casts a poor reflection upon all members. the fact that he has not the intellect to understand that his conduct is un-becoming, or inversely, his comments were of deliberate design illustrates that he is unworthy to take part in the governance of this country. I firmly believe that there should be grounds for the Speaker to dismiss such members for Gross Misconduct.
Having said that, the rest aren’t much better…….
November 11th, 2009 at 8:57 am
The Top 10 Ten excuses for Hone’s racism
1. (The PM) His comments were only a little bit racist
2. (The Maori Party)
3. (Maori Party co-vice president) “Hone was provoked by references to his wife”
4. (Hone’s Mother) He was just using your white man’s words
5. (Joris de Bres) “He was exercising his freedom of expression”
6. (The Media) A likeable bloke – a firebrand
7. (Hone Harawira) I only answer to my people
8. (Dr Ranganui Walker) “That’s Hone- he uses rich language”
9. (The Green Party) ???
10. (University Professor Rawiri Taonui) ” A natural overflow of frustrations”
And finally someone telling the truth: Ngapuhi leader David Rankin says the behaviour of Maori MP Hone Harawira has set back race relations 20 years
November 11th, 2009 at 8:58 am
“Ten things the alcohol industry won’t tell you about alcohol”
http://www.child2009.co.nz/assets/presentations/Doug%20Sellman.pdf
November 11th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Billy
I don’t think you actually want answers, you just want to stir. I won’t take part in your charade.
Here’s my contribution
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/ignoring_infiltration.html
The writer makes some interesting comments about why we won’t address the issue as he sees it.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Excellent Demo
As was discussed on breakfast this morning, let the process begin
The Maori party will be the biggest losers in Harawira’s racist remarks if the dont get rid of him.
The whole country will rid of any respect they may have had for the maori party if they dont
November 11th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Demomum
I think Joris de bres should be recalled as he clearly isn’t fit for purpose saying what Hone aid wasn’t racism, he brings the office he holds into contempt and undermines any good work being done by it.
National take note, do not renew his mandate.
That it was a private email he could have said and wasn’t for his office to look at, but to say that what he (Hone) said wasn’t racist is rubbish.
But then the left has always been iffy on black racism.
Pink
I don’t think so as many of the voters of that party think the same way.
That’s why they were formed, to get back what was taken/stolen from them.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Note that Maori “only wanted their day in court” but the foreshore and seabed act was “the greatest confiscation in (recent?) history”. They only want their names on the beaches and anyone who doesn’t think that’s a good thing is racist (presumably because they don’t accept that Maori are different?).
November 11th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Agreed Mike
I’m referring to thwe way the rest of NZ will now view the maori party if they dont get rid of him and the ongoing adverse affect on race relations in the country.
If all maori think (rather the talk) like Harawira then we have a major problem
November 11th, 2009 at 9:15 am
PinkG
Does what the rest of us think of them matter to them?
I don’t think so.
Even though Turia and Pita make pains to come across well and engage, they occupy the same position.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:18 am
“..I won’t take part in your charade..”
promise..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 11th, 2009 at 9:19 am
I think the key potential backlash with this Harawira “sideshow” will be how much it prompts Key to sideline the Maori Party influence on governance. That is far more important (and will mostly happen beneath the public radar) than what public showing any of the politicians might make.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Mike
Respect is a major player here.
MMP goes and so do the maoris
They owe it to themselves to act like everyone else in this country
November 11th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Goff was pretty impressive on the Harawira thing on Breakfast this morning – like Danyl said this thing is a gift to Goff.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:23 am
“..If all maori think (rather the talk) like Harawira then we have a major problem..”
all those with a brain..and an historical awareness would..
how could they not..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 11th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Get into the 21 century philu
November 11th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Billy – if we can have this without you going postal it could be a good discussion. I agree with you. I often wonder how people choose which particular bizarre thing to believe in while rejecting all the other bizarre things as untruths.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:35 am
I get sick of those who say, “Oh, don’t worry, thats just Hone”.
Did anyone say when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, “oh, thats just Saddam”.
No, Hone is a racist who hates white people. This is who he is, and he is part of the government that makes decisions on the direction of New Zealand.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:38 am
How dare those evil white people drag a Stone Age people out the darkness and stop them engaging in their cultural rights of slavery, cannibalism and self destructive inter-tribal warfare after they had done so much for these islands by introducing dogs and rats and defoliating a third of the land area with fire while hunting over half the native species to extinction!
Eat historical awareness and die drug boy.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Stephen, I thought the interesting part of the exchange between Paul Henry & Phil Goff on Breakfast this morning was when Paul Henry asked him if he thought there should be one law for all. To which Goff said, basically, yes of course.
Surely the logical next question from Paul Henry should have been along the lines of “So Phil, don’t you think Don Brash may have been on to something with his Orewa speech?”.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am
The ‘atheist’ communist parties of the 20th C managed to kill quite a lot of people who disagreed with them.
Atheist Bolsheviks demanded the death of priests in Revolutionary Russia and got it.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Billy. Hitler was an atheist. So was Stalin. So was Pol Pot.
All three killed an enormous number of people from all manner of religious faiths, because those people either wouldn’t go along quietly with evil deeds, or simply because Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot didn’t like their religious/ethnic background.
So when you say …
you’re just not looking hard enough. Maybe if you opened both of your eyes you might see things in a more mature light.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Goff wouldn’t do a hone……….
November 11th, 2009 at 9:46 am
“..# PinkGina (63) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 11th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Get into the 21 century philu..”
i am fully in the 21st century..in the here and now..
this is our reality..
do you forget the hikoi to wellington..?
do you think that anger just all evaporated..?
these realities must be grasped..and dealt with..
for us to have any hopes for a happy future for new zealand..
and that is just the historical stuff..
in the present..maori are at the bottom of the heap..
..are over the top in all the negative statistics..
..and neither national/nor labour have done s.f.a. to ‘fix’ that..
..so are moari just expected to just accept this..?
..as their future..?
..harawira is a leader..and will be a leader for the forseeable future..
..he has only solidified his hold on his seat..
..and is only touching on what must be dealt with..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 11th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Dear Phil – those with historical awareness know that the pre-European Maori were a brutal and barbaric people who slaughtered one another willy nilly. It was a culture where the consequences of women and children falling into the hands of their enemies was so horrific they committed mass suicide to avoid it.
My goodness Phil Europeans did Maori a great favour dragging them out of that ghastly and hellish barbarity.
Modern idiots are sucked into going for this grievance crap which is why we have clowns like Harawira in Parliament.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:49 am
virtualmark, yes that would’ve been interesting. I think Goff would’ve gone for a bit of nuance (‘there is a difference between ‘common law’ and targetted government programs – which i’m in favour of – so no i don’t agree with the content of the speech’), but getting Goff to say that he thought Hone was a racist and that he’d had a gutsful of this sort of thing was pretty frickin’ significant too.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:52 am
“..Dear Phil – those with historical awareness know that the pre-European Maori were a brutal and barbaric people who slaughtered one another willy nilly..”
andrei..pre-european maori europeans..
were also ‘ a brutal and barbaric people who slaughtered one another willy nilly..”
your point..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
The ‘atheist’ communist parties of the 20th C managed to kill quite a lot of people who disagreed with them.
Atheist Bolsheviks demanded the death of priests in Revolutionary Russia and got it.
You seem close to asserting that they were murderous because they were atheists, and not because they were power crazy wingnuts who happened to be atheists. I suppose it could have been a factor, but a very minor one compared with the main motivation.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
I think the world “Muslim” there is redundant..
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Don’t wrestle with a pig andrei.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Phileewwww, throwing money at them hasn’t worked. Its up to maori to choose to better themselves. As long as they rely on others for handouts and compensation, their fate will remain unchanged.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Ok so when people with a religion kill its because of that religion, but when people without one kill its because they’re bad and the lack of a faith based system (which is arguable) is just coincidence.
Is that your final answer stephen?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:56 am
I dunno, putting it this way kind of deflates Hone’s stance. I think Key is pretty clever in this respect.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Philu
We learn from the past to make the future better.
Everyone deserves a second chance but not a third including Harawira
November 11th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I agree – this deflates HH’s stance and rightly puts all onus on him and the Maori Party to undeflate it if they choose to.
It’s not for Key to discipline him for this.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Its not for Key to stay in a coalition with a party that has an openly racist stance either Pete.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:10 am
That makes his repeated references to God throughout Mein Kampf a little unusual. Do you have a reference for that claim?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Ok so when people with a religion kill its because of that religion, but when people without one kill its because they’re bad and the lack of a faith based system (which is arguable) is just coincidence.
Is that your final answer stephen?
Eh…i would possibly lean towards their ‘people’s utopia’ as being their ‘faith based system’, really. Is that what you meant be “lack of a faith based system (which is arguable)”?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Murray said: Its not for Key to stay in a coalition with a party that has an openly racist stance either Pete.
Yep, safer for him to stick with the parties that have a covertly racist stance.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Not when the majority of your audience is Catholic Ryan. In the same way that Saddam appealed to Islam but was hardly that into it himself.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Murray,
Do you have any references for the claim that he was an atheist?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:19 am
I direct to his behaviour. I’m not your research assistant.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:20 am
@Stephen
No, I’m trying to point out the absurdity of the ‘atheism good, religion bad’ stance.
But Marx was definitely not a fan of religion
– and that influenced Communist attempts to (violently) suppress Christianity.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Toad another snide and boder line defamatory claim without substantiation. Make an overt asertion or get back to your filing.
Always ready to throw red herrings into the mix but never quite up to addressing the issue. If you were an independant person it might not matter but you’re a paid party mouthpiece so put up.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Hitler was very interested in the occult, which to me, as an atheist, just another version of imaginery friends.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Murray, i think stephens point is that when religion kills, it uses religion itself (however weak a justification that may be) to justify the killings. A prime example of this would be the Hugenot massacres.
I’m not aware of any such events anywhere where atheists have rounded up an entire religious sect and exterminated them solely because of their beliefs.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:22 am
As an aside, did any of you hear the result of a survey in the UK where 25% (or something – i am sure one of the pendatic types here will correct this) of school kids thought that Adolf Hitler was a football manager and that Auschwitz was a theme park?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:24 am
You can’t really direct to his behaviour without falling into the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
It seems he was brought up Catholic, admired aspects of Protestantism, and promoted Positive Christianity, which was a kind of Nazi Christianity. Can’t find any reason to think he was an atheist.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:25 am
“I’m not aware of any such events anywhere where atheists have rounded up an entire religious sect and exterminated them solely because of their beliefs.”
The Holocaust? Or are we back arguing about whether the Germans etc were atheists?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:25 am
…” hey hone..bro…” kiss my white arse “…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Anyone else not really suprised that Ryan can quote Mein Kampf?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Ryan, I think an overall look at Hitler’s view on religion and faith suggest he was all over the map. He recognised that Christianity was a key part of Germany’s heritage, but appeared to only recognise a unique subset of Christian faith which had been shorn of many of its key precepts which, presumably, he’d found objectionable. He recognised the political power the church could deploy in a Western European country, and didn’t want to antagonise them. Based on what I’ve read I’d also hazard a guess that Hitler didn’t believe in a God, as such, as in a specific deity who you could have a personal relationship with.
He also held a range of occultic and paganist beliefs too, albeit less than many of the other senior Nazi’s (particularly Himmler).
I think fair to say Hitler’s main foundation for his beliefs and values (ie his religion) was really all about Germany, and having a total devotion and love and commitment to the Fatherland.
So technically perhaps the best term for Hitler’s personal beliefs then is that he was a syncretist (the everyday term for Hitler’s personal beliefs is that he was a nutcase).
But the term atheist broadly covers that. Atheists believe there are no deities, and reject theism. Within that umbrella definition you have a range of “classes” … the scientific rationalists, the humanists, and many others with their own concoctions of beliefs that still exclude any deity.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Grow up, Murray. A simple Google search gives you the full text of any number of books. You can search through for references to God yourself, if you like.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Phil has a point – Whilst the Maori were/are barbaric, European’s have a lot of blood on their hands – 100 year war, the Crusades, Agincourt and the Act of Union for both Ireland and Scotland wasn’t exactly obtained peacefully or by any gentleman manner…
HJ – Very interesting lecture, I take it you are from Otago? As a young person/student I’m guilty of associating a good night with binge drinking and when I was younger, like many, I was found in some similar positions – However I do agree that the 5 point plan would combat the drinking problem especially with restricting the sale of alcohol in supermarkets. Whilst it is a great convenience, I know of many times it has got to 2330 and we have run out of booze – ‘ohwell lets go to either countdown or the 247′.
Personally I am skeptical as to whether a price increase would change the situation…. I think it would make those who don’t drink often think twice before buying a drink – but like gambling and smoking a price increase will mean for many families that the children will have to miss another meal because dad needs his Woodstock and bourbon. Those with dependency as we know do not think rationally and they will continue to purchase their drug regardless of social or financial cost to themselves or family.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Hone Harawira is a joke! He’s an arrogant, bigoted blow hard who seems to think that by being ’staunch’ it will somehow enhance his mana.
He would do well to observe how others behave.
Spot the difference!
http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll174/Bart1967/?action=view¤t=SpottheDifference.jpg
November 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I think that would be stretching the definition a little too far.
He is quoted as saying, “As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.” Of course, you could dismiss that as playing to an audience, but you could claim that anyone was anything by doing the same.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am
@Murray 10:21 am
Which Party introduced the Foreshore and Seabed Act?
Which Party voted against it because they said it did not go far enough in ensuring Maori rights to the foreshore and seabed were extinguished and then ran the Iwi-Kiwi election billboards?
It seems some of you guys have got it all arsey-boo. While I don’t condone his language, Hone is factually correct when he says:
The Foreshore and Seabed Act is merely the latest in a long history of rip-offs perpetrated, both legally and illegally, by colonists and their descendents against Maori.
Who are the real racists here – those who systematically set out to deprive Maori of their land and culture, or those who may use some rather colourful language to describe that?
BTW – I don’t for one moment support Hone rorting the taxpayer on his Paris trip.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Murray said:
Then five minutes later:
Sorry, Murray, didn’t realise you were making some kind of joke.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Senzafine
You may well be correct in the term “an entire sect”.
What most people are pointing to is Atheist regimes in the past directing there powers against others and in particular the religious groups in their territory.
It is going on today where authority is directing state and non state actors against a particular religion.
Both these organisations will give you enough info in their e-letters to join the dots.
ww.gfa.ord
www,vom.org
November 11th, 2009 at 10:46 am
If you’re looking for atheist regimes persecuting religious groups, why look further than China today?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:48 am
DPF mentioned in an earlier post women taking over various male roles in employment. In my view if they can do the job I have no problem with that.
Then of course we have our “Token” woman in roles.
I look at the make up of Cabinet we have two women spongers who don’t earn their salary in my book.
Georgina Tehue Hue….. I thought Pita Sharples was Minister of Maori Affairs?what contribution is she making we never hear from her?
Pansey Wong…… Well theres a little Trougher if I ever saw one! A guy in the National Party told me the only reason Wong got a cabinet position was Public Safety !! After seeing Wongs driving ability they believed a chauffeur driven car was the only option, well who could blame them?
Wong & Te Hue Hue are only there in my view for 3 reasons.
They are both women.
They are both from ethnic minorities
They both would be incapable of winning an electorate seat.
So we see that the Media is attacking only male MP’s ….Wow feminism is alive and growing under a National/ACT Govt.
No doubt Burt, Brian Smaller, Adolf F, & Co will be supporting the two National Party Princesses!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am
“BTW – I don’t for one moment support Hone rorting the taxpayer on his Paris trip.”
Not interested in what he got out of the tough Taod, is he or is he not a racist?
Now lets watch the dance begin trend stetters.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am
“White people have been raping our lands for centuries”
MOA EXTERMINATION
The fastest known extinction of a megafauna …
Moa had only one natural predator – the huge Haast’s eagle (Harpagornis moorei), the largest eagle ever known with a wing span of ten feet and talons as big as tiger’s claws. But life in a bird’s paradise could not last, and after millions of years moas quickly ended up in human cooking pits, and much of their habitat was destroyed by fire.
“… human hunting and habitat destruction drove the eleven species of moa to extinction less than 100 years after Polynesian settlement of New Zealand …”
R. N. Holdaway & C. Jacomb, Rapid Extinction of the Moas (Aves: Dinornithiformes): Model, Test, and Implications, Science, March 24 2000
The Holdaway and Jacomb study explored the impact on moa population of low exploitation levels by an initial population of 100 people, coupled with the habitat loss caused by them. Conservative analysis used low to medium human population growth rates, minimal rates of habitat removal in two areas of the two main islands, and the lowest cropping rates. The total population of all species of moas at the time of human settlement was 158,000 birds, and only consumption of adult moas over one year old was considered. It is known that consumption of moa eggs was considerable, but was ignored in the study.
Moas, like most long-lived birds, were most vulnerable to any increase in adult mortality. When subjected to a low level of human predation, moas required an impossible increase in births to maintain their numbers. Even without habitat loss that is known to have occured during the extinction period, the most conservative analysis suggests that moas were extinct within 160 years of human arrival.
Revised radiocarbon dating of charcoal in campsites, place the earliest arrival of moa hunters, Polynesians who were the ancestors of Maori, in the 13th century instead of the 11th century as previously thought. Archeological research of dismembered moa bones in campsites show that they were not killed after the 14th century. The short period during which moa were eaten out of existence is a mere blink in the geological time of moa life.
In a commentary on the study, Dr Jared Diamond claims that in New Zealand, Madagascar and many Pacific Islands, few would deny that the first arriving humans caused mass extinction, and the only question is how fast it occurred and whether hunting was the only cause. He said the new study “shows that moa extinctions were very fast and were mainly by hunting”.
Dr Ross MacPhee who is a mammalogist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York and has studied ancient extinctions, says “there is no way of interpreting this record other than that it had to happen virtually overnight … this is easily the best instance of overkill, of blitzkreig, on the record”.
http://www.terranature.org/moa.htm
November 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am
@Murray 10:55 am
I would say not. Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Reminding people that white people have historically ripped off Maori – which is a fact – is not racism. It would become racist if he had asserted that white people were pre-disposed by their ethnicity to rip other people off. But he did not.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Cadmus your misogyny isn’t welcome, nor is your barely suppressed racism.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:10 am
“In the first half of the nineteenth century, however, individual iwi considered carrying their martial culture beyond the shores of New Zealand. At least three expeditions of conquest were planned: to Samoa, to Norfolk Island, and to the Chatham Islands, which did not become part of New Zealand until 1842. All these proposed expeditions were dependent on finding transport to those places: and that meant finding a European ship’s captain whose vessel was available for charter; or it meant Maori commandeering a vessel for the purpose.
In the event there were no expeditions to Norfolk Island or to Samoa because the necessary transport was not secured. But there was an invasion of the Chathams Islands. Two Taranaki tribes then based in Wellington, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga ki Poneke, hijacked a European vessel in 1835 and had themselves—a total of 900 people—delivered to Chatham Islands. There they takahi’d or walked the land to claim it; ritually killed around 300 Chatham Moriori out of a total of around 1600, and enslaved the survivors—separating husbands from wives, parents from children, forbidding them to speak their own language or practise their own customs, and forcing them to violate the tapus of their culture, whose mana was based on the rejection of violence.
Was this a superior form of colonisation to that imposed by European on Maori? Did it respect the dignity and customs of the colonised? Did it acknowledge the mana whenua of the tchakat henu or indigenous people of the Chathams? It did not. It was what might now be called an exercise in ethnic cleansing. When Bishop Selwyn arrived in the islands in 1848, it was to discover that the Maori called Moriori “Paraiwhara” or “Blackfellas”; and it was to report that the Moriori population continued to decline at a suicidal rate as a consequence of kongenge or despair. Moriori slaves were not released and New Zealand law was not established on the islands until 1862, twenty years after they had become part of New Zealand. And it is that twenty years of neglect of fiduciary duty on the part of the Crown that is the basis for the Moriori claim to the Waitangi Tribunal, heard in 1994, but still not reported upon. ”
http://sof.wellington.net.nz/origins.htm
November 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Pansy is the Electorate MP for Botany.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:18 am
toad, if the prevailing position (from the enlightened such as yourself) is that whitey deserves the abuse because of historical grievances then can we assume that treaty settlements and race relations have been a waste of time? Since my childhood it has seemed to be the duty of pakeha to make special allowances for maori because of events that happened long before I was born. Taking your stance in conjunction with Hone’s, I can only assume that no matter what pakeha do in this generation we won’t see any progress towards racial harmony. The question then becomes why bother? I didn’t kill, rape or steal from any maori (although I have previously been bashed by maori, and had property stolen from me by maori).
Racism is deeply embedded in NZ, but it’s the opposite of what you make it out to be.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Toad, did you not see the poll results of Maori voters.
Green Party 3%
Try something else.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
@ Toad
”
Reminding people that white people have historically ripped off Maori – which is a fact – is not racism. It would become racist if he had asserted that white people were pre-disposed by their ethnicity to rip other people off. But he did not.”
what about assuming that Maori guardianship of foreshore and seabed is superior to non Maori’s and not fraught with normal human foibles (not to mention assuming a superior relationship with that F & S)?
remember also this is all a matter of “cultural identity”: Margaret Mutu’s mother is Scottish but she sees pakeha opposition to her tribes ownership of foreshore and seabed as based on racism.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
@toad I take umbrage at the term “white people” when referring to New Zealand’s colonialists. It’s such an ugly classification and so broad as to be meaningless.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Right Now you say…. “your misogyny isn’t welcome”,..Interesting I don’t see you mentioning the same to others concerning Hone Harawira? so whats the difference between Wong and Hirawara ? They both feast from the same trough!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Check out the real raids story: Observe how our system works and how it covers itself over to stop the public from using their brains. Simply because you do not rape or pillage, or even act in any way or manner that could be determined as bad behaviour, if you permit and condone its functionality then you are as much a part of its damage as you would be alienated from its purpose.
kiwisfirst.com
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/arrest-made-contempt-case-114740
November 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am
AFAIA, Pansy has not bitten the hand that feeds…..
November 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am
“@Murray 10:55 am
I would say not. Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Reminding people that white people have historically ripped off Maori – which is a fact – is not racism. It would become racist if he had asserted that white people were pre-disposed by their ethnicity to rip other people off. But he did not.”
There we go, Green party stance is that Hone has done nothing wrong in terms of racist behaviour. Its ok for Maori to be racist because they are victims.
Lets see how that pans out for you in the polls.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Kiwi Greg – Germany under Hitler also killed anybody affiliated to freemasonry, but then like you said we have to assume that the NAZI regime was atheist.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
True Ryan. Millions of Falun Gong adherents would agree with you.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
More evidence climate change sceptics are just a loony fringe.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/3050131/Ice-shelf-finding-debunks-claims-of-sceptics
November 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
@ Captain Neurotic …and gypsies and gays and German nationals with disabilities. They were bad motherfuckers. All white too.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
About fucking time – hopefully our judges can have the same testicular fortitude – I will not be holding my breath though!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/blame-falls-on-drinkers-in-high-court-judgment/story-e6frg6nf-1225796288810
November 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Jeff83,
Take the political puffery out of the article, and there is no evidence for anthropogenic climate catastrophe.
The science involved is merely about better understanding the mechanisms by which ice sheets undergo melting.
The Ice sheets and glaciers have been melting for 10,000 years and we have previously had ice free poles. As the scientific detail in that article goes to show, the ice cover at the poles has alot to do with geography as well as atmospheric temperature.
We are coming out of an ice age Jeff, the North Sea used to be land, polar bears were in the mediterranean. This is old science, catch up.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Are you bonkers?
Antarctica isn’t melting the way end of the worlders claim it should be so a clutching-at-straws explanation of why it isn’t melting is worthy of an orgasm by those who are vainly clinging onto catastrophism as their last hope in advancing the cause of socialistic world government – all in the name of saving the planet.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Athiests and gorebul warming alarmists, todays religious fanatics.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1989/0025/latest/DLM158014.html?search=ts_act_broadcasting_resel&p=1
I reason that the term ‘mother f’r’ is more about a person who cuddles up to their mother’s protection than in fact engage in sexual activity with her. This means, given the legislation that I refer under the Broadcasting Act 1989, that Hone was perfectly correct. Where are men protected to broadcasting in New Zealand? How can this legislation be given entitlement in a gender discrimination free New Zealand? It was interesting that when Kathryn Ryan from Radio New Zealand National, nine to noon, couldn’t get an interview with him, they interviewed his mother.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20091110
November 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
“I reason that the term ‘mother f’r’ is more about a person who cuddles up to their mother’s protection than in fact engage in sexual activity with her.”
You reason incorrectly. I sugest you look into the meaning of the word “fuck”.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I have strong misgivings about death penalties, usually, but this would be one of the more deserving of cases.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I heard he was suffering from Secondary Pre-post traumatic stress disorder.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
@ Political Busker 12:11
Is that what your mum told you it meant?.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
There are very few who in fact fuck their mothers, just like there are very few grandmothers who suck eggs.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Banking inquiry comes back with the conclusion that NZ banks have been ripping off the public.
This is the inquiry that had no government backing, and all the major banks except kiwibank declined to take part.
These guys are idiots, they started with a conclusion, and held a subsequent inquiry to support that conclusion. What the hell was the point?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
@ PB 12:20,
Therein lies the power of the implication.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Sonny Blount said: Toad, did you not see the poll results of Maori voters. Green Party 3%. Try something else.
I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.
And, anyway, before the Maori Party came along, Greens polled better among Maori than we did among the general population – it’s just that the Maori Party took most of the Maori voters taht used to vote Green.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Quite correct. In fact, The history of the earth tells us that it is abnormal to have ice at the poles. The normal, non-ice age state of flux for the planet is to have no permanent ice shelves, period.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties in that they’re in power and the greens are irrelevantfringe loonies.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
^^^ You have an avatar of yourself as a South Park character on your website, and you build catapults.
irrelevantfringe loonies… you were saying???
November 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Yes, you are so principled and superior toad, it really is a shame that 93% of people disagree with your facts. According to climate change idiots that is a consensus and you’re a fringe loony nutter.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Please RRM, where do we find your list of approved tastes and interests?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
@wreck1080
I took the BNZ into a judicial review of an advertisement they coordinated and funded called NZ’s Biggest Morning Tea on behalf of Preventing Violence in the Home Inc. It was openly gender discriminatory showing four dads assaulting children – they successfully applied to have the proceedings against them ’struck out’. Justice Randerson (Chief High Court judge) struck them out alright – but not as the bank would have liked. He struck them out because I had ‘no standing’ but not because I was wrong. What i proved was that the bank instead was in full breach of their international codes and obligations on marketing, in particular to children but as well under the general principles. They simply had not paid the restrictions any attention at all – absolute arrogance.
The point I make about the proceedings is that I complained that men as fathers no longer have any standing in New Zealand and the judge fully agreed with me striking out my proceeding because I had no standing. From your point, the issue I raise is that unless the public are actively challenging corruption and corporate theft the perpetrators will simply get away with it. I beat the bank – not that anyone effectively knows about it or as you probably point out, cares.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Toad
If you had your way how would you see New Zealand governed?
Would you give ’special’ status to Maori?
Would Maori have final say on all legislation?
I guess the question is this, would we all be under Maori rule?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
And they let me teach children too, dear oh dear what is the world coming to?
In other news I see Hone has his own facebook page now http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=216948967587&ref=nf
November 11th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
The New World Order is a lot more cunning than using something scientifically provable such as climate change as their catalyst.
They are much more likely to fool the foolish from within – say, to promote some pretty face from a remote state to headline a movement they are backing their saviour, and they pull the strings at the most popular “news” network in the country, so d under the sheep’s noses the capitalists make their big move.
Or are you trying to suggest that the downing of the Berlin wall and crumbling of communism was a feint move?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
@big bruv,
The first issue is sovereignty and for it to be rightfully returned. That can be spanned to a date and pinned lawfully to a review of the concept, set prior to the date. Let’s say 20 years for simple arguments sake.
The model of authority should resemble the Supercity body of five, although instead of two seats it should have one allocated to Maori with a deciding vote to reengage the matters before it using a different process or to issue a question for binding referendum. The security of vote is an equitable system through the present two different electoral roles.
Two judicial systems are established and run concurrently much like Sharma law. These are accessible to all and their constitutions should be the cause of debate over the period of settling the constitution of the nation. Maori Parliament is established at Waitangi and has direct access into central Government – with the body elect of five the top court and an effective upper house.
I know you didn’t ask me but those are my ideas anyway.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
This is what a real justice system does to a cold blooded murderer.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6539505/Washington-sniper-John-Allen-Muhammad-to-be-executed-at-9pm.html
One day we might be brave enough to start doing it here.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Peter George –
Are you saying – “in the future?”
In our capital city executive officers duped their councilors into making ‘buses’ the catalyst and ‘catalyst’ to make ‘buses priority’ over pedestrians – all fed with a Snapper. Infratil is about to take over New Zealand’s capital. Global warming and the swine flu are simply instruments of effect.
This used to be the land of sheep but that concept should be put to the freezer and replaced with all being milkers.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Fascism and Communism (Lenins and Maos) are secular religions. the Marxist sect always end an argument by simply referring to “the book” as – but its not what Marx says.
When people hold any set of beliefs with enough conviction it becomes easy to rationalise imprisoning or killing those who refuse to conform.
The latest secular religion – environmentalism – has many prophets who advocate imprisoning people who are skeptical of climate change or suggest that AIDS is the earth mothers’ way of reducing population.
Most religions whether secular or spiritual find a climate of fear is a useful too for maintaining discipline and conformity with the code.
Your religion or belief is an ideology. Mine is simply natural common sense.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
in my view our justice system should be tiered without the judiciary permitting a set sentence, only by recommendation for observing the presented facts. Where you start in the system is from where you have to work. The bottom tier starts at a religious place one above a clean room with a red button.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Anything to back that up with? Seems like some of your claimed common sense is absent here.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Owen McShane
I agree but fear is the market of freedom. Until that market is reduced to a size manageable by common sense we are on a cycle requiring something as dramatic as aids to control behaviours and population.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
PB
Where does the concept of democracy fit into your plan?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Does that include trying to create a fear of a world government to try and get people to conform with the code of unlimited exploitation of resources?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
The voting system stays the same. Maori elect their own as they would elect their own. Tribal Democracy.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Not a big fan of one law for all then?.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Bloody hell!
If you want to hear a real racist Mowree tune into Radio live right now!
Phill Goff is having a stand up scrap with that wanker Willie Jackson.
I have to say, Goff has gone up in my estimations in the last 24 hours.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Yeah Phils onto a winner this time.
Some must have hit his bullshit threashold by the look of it.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Ryan Sproull at 10.10 asked for references for Hitler’s atheism, and later suggested Hitler promoted something called positive Christianity.
Here’s a good solid reference Ryan. Michael Burleigh, one of the top historical authorities on Hitler, in his 2000 book: The Third Reich, a New History. See the last chapter in Part Nine, “Men of God”.
Hitler’s views in his own words:
Christianity is nothing but ” wholehearted Bolshevism under a tinsel of methaphysics”.
And Christianity is “an invention of sick brains” and Hitler asked: “Who is this God who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.
And, pertinent to the Pacific: “.. a Negro with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation…”
And “.. I dream of a state of affairs in which every man would know that he lives and dies for the preservation of the species…”
Burleigh says elsewhere in the book that for the Nazis, Christ was an inconvenience, except when crucified by the Jews.
Burleigh also writes Nazis despised Christianity (page 255 of the Pan edition of the book).
November 11th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
PB
Does that mean I (as a non Maori) will not have to finance Maori social welfare, health, etc?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Yes Leonidas – this is what I have said – one law for all. What I have written creates different points of access into that law, it disassembles the rigidity and fractious nature of law which is policed to fear which is a corporate investment alienating of social policy allowing the latter to be commandeered by something as broad as feminism or homosexuality.
Phil Goff has a problem with his position at present given that he signed off as the Queen on an application of mine for the Royal Prerogative of Mercy identifying a breach of sovereignty through comity in the Court of Appeal. He has much to answer for and if Hone is stating that he should be put up against a wall – then it is very likely he is referring to this – given that Hone is the nation’s own catalyst to expose injustices. I have already made my view on such sentences and don’t see any necessity for Goff to be put to a test rather than recognising openly and proactively exactly what it is that he knows he is hiding.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I wonder if he was aware of the irony – it could easily be:
And Nazism is “an invention of sick brains” and we could ask: “Who is this Fuhrer who takes pleasure only in seeing men grovel before him”.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
toad said “I’m more interested in facts than polls, Sonny. That is where Greens differ for other political parties – we take positions because we believe tehm to be correct, not because they might be popular. Sure, that costs us votes, but it is principled.
And, anyway, before the Maori Party came along, Greens polled better among Maori than we did among the general population – it’s just that the Maori Party took most of the Maori voters taht used to vote Green.”
Sounds like a bad case of the green-eyed monster (or should that be Green-eyed) toad. I thought you guys operated on the philosphy that individual choice was a GOOD thing
November 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
November 11th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Big Bruv the benefit system goes in for full review. However, at it lowest tier there is a basic rate accessible to long term or willing unemployed. It is low and accommodated to residential community care including food and power and sits above the prison system. This region of social backing is traversed by any prisoner coming out of the penal system and used as a platform for reintegration into the system.
I haven’t had much cause to engage the rationalities of the health system ‘yet’ – but the system of tier is the fundamental principle, you enter the health system by need rather than for cost. A human has a right to a civilized existence and that can only be implemented where common sense is a language of communication.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
OM 12:56
Your religion or belief is an ideology. Mine is simply natural common sense.
So’s mine
November 11th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
PB
Given that you are suggesting two separate nations existing along side each other I fail to see why I should have to pay one cent to Maori.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
They’re not “side by side”, one is a parasite of the other.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I didn’t say that you had to – I suggest we run a system embodied under two functional principles in existence. You pay for a system anyway. It isn’t you who gives Maori money, just like it isn’t you who pays for the unemployed – it is the politicians. You agree to let them make decisions and they get back to you consulting with what they do. Optimally they do this with care and consideration – very unlike the WCC allowing Infratil to take a city and eventually a nation.
Your impression that your money is used for anything specific other than for the benefit of an operating system is wrong. You pay tax.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
The money that “other people” are giving away is in fact ours PB.
Lingual gymnastics wont change that simple fact.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
You don’t own the money when you give it to the Crown. They own it. To think otherwise is to drift along in a mind set of self importance and the very reason I complain (and prove) about complacency: Please, think about it, it is avery important junction in democracy, its purpose, and the how and why of how it is abused. The WCC and Infratil, the BNZ, the HRC and all of these activities letting you think you are something more important to them than a cash cow exposes the facts that slip by when you think you have any real control about what it is they feed you. .The Maori system is different from this. In that system the human is the principal.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
And yet its still giving other peoples money away.
Get your head around the idea that the people ARE the government. Those elected to operate it are our servants. Not the other way round.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
The political scrutiny recently isn’t simply because corruption appeared before the country – like it did not exist or was not seen previously. Nor was it specifically to do with the recession as if that in itself was an independent cause: it was because some folk decided to ask the right questions and make the proper demands. After a while of badgering and standing one’s ground some folk who have power eventually have to concede. What I am asking you to consider is that the regimes established in NZ government linking into the courts and over a considerable period have calcified corrupted practices. They can do it because they own and distribute the money you earn. Until they are drawn to a monitored regulation of effect then there will be no proper free system and fear will be maintained and abused as the market of that freedom.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Ohh Boy Murray
I wish those in parliament could get their heads round that too!
I thought we were the crown, the collective?
If not off with her head!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
I didn’t suggest, I cited historical fact.
The question wasn’t whether or not Hitler was a Christian, but whether or not he was an atheist.
But that research does seem to suggest that if he was a theist, he wasn’t a Christian theist.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Brian Smaller said…If you’re looking for atheist regimes persecuting religious groups, why look further than China today?
I know Pansey Wong was born in Shanghi???? Wong and her husband have had several trips to China. Who know’s the Wong’s could have a hidden agenda??? Remember the Rosenberg’s.
Talking of Nazi Germany I new a guy that was in the Hitler Youth as a kid. He volunteered for Nam and was excepted no problem. The same guy told me that things were great in Germany until 1942 . He said he would go back to those days again if he could, everyone was happy. I asked about the killing of those undisireables. He thought it was great idea, so did eveyone else. He told me that in the end everyone (Germans) were happy and Proud to be German for once instead of being the scum of Europe. As the undisirables vanished the whole of society felt safer, more money, new goods. He said people didn’t do anything not because of fear but because the govt was doing a great job most thought? He told me they never showed the good side of Germany in the 1930’s when the rest of the world was starving and unemployed and they where having a great time. I said what happened near the end of the war. He told me nothing! his sister was in the Girls Hitler Youth our mother burned the uniforms and headed West. The house was stuffed the old man was in a prison camp in France and we started a New life in the US in 1947. He said he joined up to fight in Nam because he hated gooks! He told me half the Russian Soviet army was full of them, he rembered seeing them captured on news reels in Germany, ugly horrible little people in uniforms far to big for them. He told me the germans used to hang the gooks upside down with a rope around the feet when they captured them ,the gooks didn’t like that.
I found it quit interesting, but somethings he told me are best left off this board!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
The fellow sounds undesirable himself.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Gwen Dyer, the man wrong on everything, sez the War of Terror has something to do with the Fort Hood shooting. Well, when you’re an anti-Western Marxist, any excuse will do.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Ryan Sproull….He told be the Soviet asian gooks in WW2 had strips of cloth for socks. The germans used a lot of horses in the war which had to be well cared for. They used product still in use (Horse Liniment) which was for sprains to the horses. Something 5 times as strong as standard liniment. The Germans used to rub it on the feet of the gooks when upside down on a rope to get information. He said the gooks would holla and scream. It burnt like hell on the soft part of the bare sole. If the Gook really held out they then would grab the bottle and pull the Gooks trousers down and then show the bottle. He told me then the information flowed freely!
November 11th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Gordon Brown challenges mother to televised spelling bee
By Jeff Nicols
The Prime Minister has challenged the grieving mother of a soldier killed in Afghanistan to a US-style televised spelling bee in response to criticism he received after spelling her name incorrectly in a letter of condolence.
In the offending letter Brown used a thick crayon, and referred to the mother of soldier Jamie Janes by the wrong name.
“I would never show disrespect to anyone by spelling something badly,” said Mrs. Janes (Is this right? -ed.)
The Prime Minister, well known for having a head for figures, is “a dark horse when it comes to spelling”, according to one spelling expert.
“It’s kind of ironic that he misspelt her rather simple name when he gets regular practise spelling long words like Incompetence, Recession and Financial-Armageddon.”
Calligraphy
Gordon Brown drew fire of his own this week, and not all of it friendly, when he was accused not just of bad spelling but poor penmanship.
The maligned PM has reportedly taken up calligraphy in an effort to improve his writing. He is thought to be working on Baroque Hand and Champignon Serif in an effort to wow the next tranche of bereaved next of kin.
Support
Labour supporters believe the recent events work in the government’s favour, pointing out that a one-eyed man who can’t spell has much in common with the people, or at the very least should secure the crucial pirate vote.
A Conservative spokesman this week said: “I’ve been in politics for 58 years, the writing is on the wall for Labour – though to be honest you can hardly read it.”
Read more: Gordon Brown challenges grieving mother to televised spelling bee | newsarse.com http://newsarse.com/2009/11/10/gordon-brown-challenges-mother-to-televised-spelling-bee/#ixzz0WX6O6fMS
November 11th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Big Bruv
How much tax do you pay ?
Are you self employed so people like me can get you off tax, or are you a weasly snively little employee, whos employer has to PAYE on your behalf ?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
I find Cadmus’s reports of the German’s comments (4.04 and 5.19 posts) about Asian soldiers in the Red Army repugnant.
The comments would have been about the Kalmyks, Khazahks, Buryats, and other Tatar minorities in Russia. They formed an important part of the Siberian divisions that were called westwards when the Germans threatened Moscow, and after a spy reported to Moscow that the Japanese were going to strike south towards Malaysia, IndoChina, and the SOuth Pacific rather than attack the Soviet Union in Siberia.
The Siberian divisions, tough and at home in the snow, turned the tide for Russia, and thus for all of us. They gave the German Army the critical hiding of the war at the approaches to Moscow, even more important than Stalingrad. It was such a defeat that Nazi political “cabinet minister” Fritz Todt, the builder of Germany’s superb autobahns, flew to Hitler and called on him to sue for peace with Stalin. Hitler rejected the idea, and Todt’s plane blew up on a flight away from the meeting, brought down by a bomb believed to have been planted by the SS.
The Tatar troops were excellent soldiers, and when in tank units, they adapted their ancient cavalry tactics, such as the fish-hook retreat.
The German’s comments as reported by Cadmus, are the sort of odious racism you would expect from a fanatic Nazi. Fuck him. I’m pleased our fathers and uncles (these days I guess, our grandfathers) fought such scum, and thankful they had the Red Army on their side, Tatars included.
By the way I hadn’t heard of ex-Nazis volunteering to fight in Vietnam, though earlier plenty of ex-SS troops were in the French units in the French IndoChina war, as part of a clemency deal.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
As for Cadmus’s report of the Soviet Asian troops wearing strips of cloth for socks.
Such bindings were, and may still be, standard winter practice for Russian troops, and followed centuries old Russian peasant practice. Worn inside tough boots, they were virtually water proof, and withstood the bitter winter conditions better than the Germans’ socks and boots.
The Russians were also cruel to the Germans, but at least they do not boast about it, as Cadmus’s odious German obviously does (or did).
November 11th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10608670
Oh well, the Maori Party is taking staunch action on Hone isn’t it?
My bet is that he will be publicly thrashed with a wet lettuce leaf, while being privately told by the kaumatua to “take the white man for all he’s got-how was Paris?”
November 11th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
“Tangata Whenua” = “that term we can use to make our opinion more important than anyone else’s”
I’m sceptical that even Maori themselves understand the meaning of this term. “People of the land” or anything that refers to Maori as the first people of NZ is a common definition, though I fail to see how this makes them any different from anyone else. I must apologise here now actually – I’m coming from a thread that was back in April about Harawira speaking at a policy lecture at UofA where he called one Steve Baron, a student, a racist due to the latter’s including Maori as a minority group in NZ. Which of course they are.
Basically my point is Harawira should be stood down as an MP of this country. He is not a good role model for his constituents.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:22 am
He represents who his constituents are!
The King is the glory of the nation!
If he didn’t they wouldn’t vote for him.
So what does that say about us with Key and National?