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156 Responses to “General Debate 13 November 2009”
People in the north probably have been ignoring the present crisis in the Invercargill City Council. As a Southlander I watch with interest.
Tim Shadbolt is in the midst of his dying throes as Mayor of Invercargill.
Over the past few years Tim has spent a lot of his time out of Invercargill making money. Things have been left with Cr Neil Boniface a long serving and competent deputy-mayor. Much of Invercargill’s moving ahead can be attributed to Cr Boniface and the remainder of council.
Tim has come back and found that the political climate in Invercargill and the ICC bad and so he is trying to distract and confuse the people of Invercargill. He is currently trying to line up support to beat off his opponents by promising jobs for those that support him.
All the division in council can be attributed to one person, who has been blinded by celebrity and his need for material matters.
The voters will decide next year. Incidentally, Tim is away to Norway to inspect oil facilities there in preparation for Invercargill’s great discovery of oil and gas in the Great Southern Basin. I wonder who is running the show in Invercargill?
It is very sad for Invercargill, but just remember Tim’s efforts in Auckland.
The more I hear about the justice system the more horrified I am.
The Judge in the Weatherston case heavily censored the victim impact statement of Sophie’s father. Presumably this is the same judge that subjected the poor family to the indignity of a provocation defence?
clearly the father wanted to get this off his chest – but disallowed for no other reason than probably hurting that sick bastards feelings
Patrick – the system is far more sympathetic to the voice of victims than it ever has been. So it is not about asking “what has the system come to”. Without going into it in too much depth the criminal justice system is not and never was (not at least in recent history) a system set up for the victim. The reason the state prosecutes individuals who have been harmed is because these are considered breaches against all of us as members of society. It is not designed to be some sort of state run revenge system. But this is slowly being watered down by the likes of Garth McVicor.
Yvette – Hone just told the historical truth. His “rape” and “motherfucker” references may have been misogynist, and I certainly don’t support him using that language any more than I support Trevor Mallard homophobically calling Chris Finlayson “Tinkerbell”. But nothing Hone said was racist – that white colonists were responsible for the alienation of over 60 million acres of Maori land is an undeniable fact.
Winston, by contrast, has repeatedly and disgustingly exploited racism for his own political gain over many years.
So a ‘victim impact statement’ is really a ‘judges impact statement’.
Never forget that if judges actually applied the law, 90% of them would be out of a job through a lack of criminals to try. They make their money when the crims are out committing crimes, NOT when they are punished. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!
Patrick, the act that allows victim impact statements has a set of criteria that regulate what can be put in the statements. The judge is supposed to read the statements first to determine whether any part of the statement needs to be redacted.
Edit: N1TCO: exactly.
Swiftman: you have it wrong- if the judges applied the law as it is written more people would get off. Your view of the justice system is totally incorrect.
So, once again, it is the politicians who wrote the rules, not the judges who impletment them, that you should be blaming.
What do we get – You have to finish up feeling sorry for the average Joe Citizen, the guy who goes to work for 12 or more hours a day, 6 days a week for the privilege of handing over 25 to 30% of every dollar he earns to the govt.
What does he get in return, he gets to pay another 12.5% of his earnings in a spending tax he has no say over.
He gets to participate in a health system so burdened down with administrative costs and overheads, by the time he gets crook there is no money left to pay for his health care.
He get to elect a new govt every three years, that promptly ignore him and most of what was promised to get his vote, on top of that he watches as the benches get filled with hacks from the list he never voted for, but will now pay for.
He sits by and watches as his elected representatives argue like children in the house, behaviour that would get most kiwi blokes smacked to the ground if they spoke to him like that in the pub.
He watches as his tax dollar gets used in allowances others dream about, he after all is the guy that considers himself lucky to get a new pair of safety boots every year.
He sits by and watches as MP’s he helped to elect, and the ones he didn’t elect but are there anyway, live high on the hog and travel to places his family can only dream about, and then justify the trip with some story so weak that you can see straight through it.
He watches as very well paid govt appointed flunkies erode the values he grew up with and is trying to raise his children with.
He wonders why becoming a solo mother with five kids to five different fathers has become a career choice, and what he did wrong as he can only afford two kids.
He worries every time his kids go out at night as to weather they are going to be knifed, robbed, beaten, or raped by some meth soaked, gang patched, criminal that “society has failed” who is on bail and looking to make a name for himself, or get the money for his next fix.
He wonders why he can get a pizza delivered faster than he can get a policeman to look after him, his family and his property.
Perhaps it’s come time some of the people that claim to run this country stood back and took a long hard look at themselves, their colleagues, their decisions and the repercussions of them, and started working for the guy that put them where they are.
Inventory2 I can assure you I am not related in any way to Neil Boniface. Just shows how suspicious and conspiracy theory oriented some people are.
However I am involved Local Government and know both Tim and Neil
MNZ – It’s fair to assume that they wrote the rules on the instructions of the Ministry of Justice. While they often consult with the Heads of Benchs, the judges have no veto power over anything that is enacted (reinforcing the seperation of powers). But in the end it is up to Ministers and MPs to enact legislation. They have the final say.
Happy to accept your assurance Neil. Far from being a conspiracy theorist, my mind made a connection, and the question was posed. In this case, it seems that I have added 2 and 2 and got 22
Themselves, Mike, themselves. Despite the population thinking the legal profession has great power and influence, in reality it has no more than you do. After all, 75% of the legal profession opposed the abolishing of the Privy Council but it still went through.
You make a good point at 8.09am. I saw a Powerlineblog (?) summary of it somewhere, if someone wants to read it. It appears to cede a lot of power to whatever organisation that is set up by the summit.
As to your question on commenting on it? The answer is why bother when nothing we do will affect the government decision on it?
Cranmer’s Blog in the UK has a piece on benefit claimants and UK Labour seats.
The table doesn’t include all the parties seats which is disappointing but I’d be interested in seeing our stats per electorate.
Does anyone know where the same info can be found here?
NOt1tocommentoften. It’s not about ‘revenge’, It’s all about what is wrong with our system that allows the likes of Whetherston to grandstand his way through a lengthy trial, saying anything he chooses about the victim, making all sorts of wild allegations about the family, but prevents the much grief stricken father from telling murderer he doesn’t know right from wrong?
This is the same system that allows the likes racist fucks like Hone Warawira to abuse those who pay his bill, and indeed protects him under the Bill of Rights as freedom of expression, – yet denies a poor family the right to tell brutal murderer of their daughter he may not be normal?
FES
I wasn’t aware, as a non legal beagle I had assumed that the select committees took the tone of the profession either through the law society or through their own advisers who were.
Why bother?
When good men do nothing, they should never moan nor cuss nor seek retribution nor compensation because they never opened their mouths when they could and should both for themselves or for those less fortunate or unable to do so.
why is nobody talking about the sub-text/’real’ story around this harawira/maori party brouhaha..?
namely..that harawira..for some time..has been complaining long and hard about what he sees is the maori party selling out to a rightwing national government..
and given how harawira calls a spade a spade..
you can bet he has been beating the ears of sharples/turia et.al..
and this is what any ’split’ will be over..
not that paris holiday..
and not his jibe at goff..
(i still reckon harawira and sue bradford should team up in a new ‘workers/battlers-party’..
harawira will win his northern maori seat…(and so get to bring in bradford/a team of mp’s ..on his coat-tails..
it’s a natural mix..bradford/harawira..
their politics mesh well..
they would each bring their own constituency..
hard to see how they would not get both the northern maori seat…and crack 5%..
(to me..it’s a no-brainer..
and boy..!..are they/a workers/battlers-party ‘needed’..!
Patrick, it was about telling the prisoner what the father of the deceased woman thought of his defence and his statements in the witness box. That was not for the father to say in a victim IMPACT statement. Further, some of the things that he says he could not possibly know to be true or not.
What the ‘public’ wants is the opportunity to vilify those being sentenced, rather than tell of the impact the offending had.
FES
It seems everyone and his dog is making representations in the USA, so why not the people who actually know law and what it means, commenting on what something says and will do?
Whilst most New Zealanders acknowledge the past injustices and the settlement of claims, the process has been hijacked so as to be unending. No full and final settlement will ever take place.
To us Tauiwi we see no settlement in sight either as there is no settllement offer on the table from Maori. Some want independence, some want money, some want 60 million acres returned, some want this, some want that. And every generations wants something more.
What Maori have to be real careful about is that the whole treaty settlement issue becomes a total irrelevance to the rest of New Zealand.
Then the only option left open will be civil war. And the winner of that will be the majority, not a minority.
As Maori have this ingrained need to get their settlement finalised before they can move forward, they need to be more specific in their treaty claims and timeframes. But I suspect that the likes of the Hadfields would rather battle the McCoys then settle any dispute.
The rest of New Zealand is moving forward regardless of Maori claims.
phil. I think you are right in this instance. And long may they languish in opposition. The only question is – how long will it take Hone to fatten her up before he knocks her on the head?
toad said “Yvette – Hone just told the historical truth. His “rape” and “motherfucker” references may have been misogynist, and I certainly don’t support him using that language any more than I support Trevor Mallard homophobically calling Chris Finlayson “Tinkerbell”. But nothing Hone said was racist – that white colonists were responsible for the alienation of over 60 million acres of Maori land is an undeniable fact.”
Your opinion, of course toad. And of course opinions are like arseholes – everyone has one. On this occasion, your opinion and mine are markedly different.
I do however agree wholeheartedly with your comments re Winston Peters – and Trevor Mallard
Mike: because signing up to treaties is a policy decision, not a legal one. In this ‘enlightened’ age we can surely trust the government to do what is best for us and need not worry if our national sovereignty appears to be degraded somewhat in our own best interest and that of the planet.
Gerrit said: Then the only option left open will be civil war. And the winner of that will be the majority, not a minority.
I sincerely hope it never comes to that Gerrit, but if it were to, I wouldn’t be so certain about the outcome. Just consider the racial demographic of the armed forces in New Zealand and think about recent history in Fiji for a moment.
Some want independence, some want money, some want 60 million acres returned, some want this, some want that.
We don’t expect all Pakeha or all Indians or all Chinese or all Samoans living in New Zealand to speak with one voice, so why should we expect all Maori to do so?
FES
Will they listen?
I trusted the government not to make me a criminal if a gave my children a smack for corrective purposes and I’m pretty sure that I was very definitely in the majority that time.
>>>The poor you will always have with you – and they shall vote Labour<<< So the obvious solution to me is that they should be educated to take their place in a working society all getting an adequate wage …. but that doesn't happen becuase it threatens those educated people in work. That too is a root cause why Hone Harawira feels he has to speak the speak that he does … if his constituents were educated and in gainful employment he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. So why we may depreciate his choice of language it is a result of the mis government by the educated lining their own pockets and wanting an uneducated workforce to do the dirty jobs for little pay. Today we find that even the Maori establishment are ganging up on him as they pussyfoot around. It is even more disgusting than the language Hone used in his private email.
Afghanistan will be lost unless America / NATO ? the West etc commits at least 500,000 soldiers. Ideally 2 million will do including attacking & invading Pakistan as necessary.
MikeNZ and others, thanks for the comments, I am sure there are many more people out there that feel like this.
Will they listen? – somehow I doubt it very much, most of the people that this applies to will apply the RDI template, that’s Read, Delete, and Ignore.
I would be extremely surprised if ANY politician from ANY political party would respond, the whole lot of them are too well plugged into the “Gravy Train”
dime said: i love the lefts take on this “hone wasn’t being racist, he is factually correct”.
It’s my take, not “the left’s”. If you take a look over at The Standard, you will see some on “the left” taking a position similar to mine, and some disagreeing.
The armed forces are of New Zealand will have very little bearing on the outcome of a civil war. Even if 80% were of Maori decend, it does not equal to them fighting on a racial divide. Plus the armed forces numbers and resources are not the be all and end all in a civil war.
I expect Maori to speak in one voice as the treaty was signed by the Maori as almost (Tuhoe the only exception?) one voice. This one document is used to set the entitlement to claims, so it is not unreasonable to expect Maori to speak in one voice.
I asked this of Village Idiot/Greenfly on frogblog and got no answer, so will ask this of you.
What do you see as the solution to the Maori grievances that would satify all the treaty partners.
Paint a picture of what you see is the future for New Zealand society. Will we ever be one people or will there always be Maori disaffection with the rest?
Of course Hone is being factually correct … the trouble he is upsetting a lot of thinskinned Pakeha and also some of the Maori who don’t want to stir things too. If he used more parliamentary language nobody would listen to him.
Neil @ 8:12am – In the current climate of politicians overseas travel, the Invercargill ratepayers would be wise to scrutinise Shadbolt’s expenses claim when he returns from Norway.
I’ve been to Norway (as my own cost) several times, and it’s a very very expensive country -eg: $30 for two coffees and a scone each at a cafe, $50 for a 3km taxi ride. And as for the heavily-taxed alcohol, well it’s practically out of reach, even for the Norwegians.
Gerrit said: Then the only option left open will be civil war. And the winner of that will be the majority, not a minority.
I sincerely hope it comes to that Gerrit, it will give a lot of us the chance to sort out the malaise that so badly affects NZ, that we have been wanting to do for years.
Scanner
I have to say that I am moving towards a place that the List MP’s don’t really represent us. but their parties and are a tool for the parties use not ours and therefore need to go.
Similarly it is now clear to me that the parties act for their needs not ours necessarily and as I have now been affected with the anti smacking legislation changes, like many I’m now thinking about the political process and whether it needs changing.
You piece whilst short has highlighted that the taxpayer actually needs protecting from parliament, the parties and the politicians, especially caeer politicians and the same might be said for ratepayers and local government.
Short of the guillotine, I don’t see a way forward at present as “they” make the rules as FES has stated, hence parliamentary services is not transparent to those who pay.
Gerrit … the sad thing about the Maori problem is similar to that of the Jews … they have a paranoic persecution complex and until they get over it there can be to real solution. Both are living in the past when evil was done to them and until they grow up there can be no end to the problem. It is probably a chicken and the egg situation that as long as many remain un educated and in the lower ranks of our society they will feel hard done by and race is a convienient excuse. Once they have something more than their heritage to loose they will stop the moans and fit into society instread of populating our prisons. It is there that much could be done if instead of shutting them up and throwing away the key that a detirmined effort was made to educate them the problem should start to go away. Except for a few, people who have something to loose don’t upset the applecart.
I was surprised how strong a stand the Maori Party have appeared to take over Harawira – this is just the last of many concerns they have had about him, and if he wants the advantages and power of being part of a party he has to work with the party and not independently.
Gerrit … the sad thing about the Maori problem is similar to that of the Jews … they have a paranoic persecution complex and until they get over it there can be to real solution. Both are living in the past when evil was done to them and until they grow up there can be no end to the problem.
Yes, Jews have a persecution complex. That may be because most of the world wants to exterminate them.
Latest figures from the States show that the numbers of ‘hate crimes’ reported were.
Hate-crime incidents in the US in 2007: 7,624.
Anti-Islamic incidents: 115.
Anti-Jewish incidents: 969.
Anti-Other religion: 130.
Bad news folks – the Treaty is never going to be settled!!
Students at Waikato Uni were told last month by a certain lecturer, (who shall remain nameless, but was of Maori ethnicity) , that the ‘Treaty was a ‘living document’ and that the land claims and settlements being made are just another part of the on-going ‘Civil War’ (his words and a phrase that should be noted very carefully) that is currently beuing waged between Maori and ‘the rest’, with ‘the rest’ being all and anyone who is not of Maori ethnicity (whatever THAT may mean).
The fact that this has now become a ‘Guerre Civile’ and is being waged 24/7 will no doubt be news to the majority of our readers and New Zealanders at large , but this statemebnt was publically made to a class of about 100-130 students and shows that this is how things are seen now by Maori academia, (and, by implication, the rest of Maori), a viewpoint summed up, according to the same lecturer, in the phrase ‘we will fight on forever, and ever and ever. . ‘ , (the famous ake, ake, ake ‘ statement first heard at the battle of Gate Pah).
With THAT sort of statement now being made, the comments by certain Maori academics (especially those at Auckland Uni), actually start to make a great deal of sense, and as I pointed-out yesterday, explains why the emphasis has moved – and non-Maori are now the very specific target of the anit-brigade (of which Hone is but one example), aided and abbetted by the ‘melons and their mates in the Mininstry of Education.
The difficulty is of course that the rest of New Zealand actually thought that the ‘land wars’ ended in the 19th century. They didn’t and, as I stated above they are on-going – un-resolved, and never going to be ended because ‘forever and ever and ever’ means literally that to the leaders of Maori-dom.
Think of that next time you see Hone and his ilk on the ‘tube, since with that phrase as their mantra, any statements that Maori leadership make suddenly become quite logiccal. They are still fighting, they will continue to fight ‘for ever and ever and ever.
MikeNZ, you asked a very good question on the Copenhagen Treaty, but nobody responded.
I guess that shows that most people these days accept that climate change was a scam the left tried to pull and failed, and that whatever happens at Copenhagen, it will all eventually amount to nothing.
Chris2 – I may have the wrong Scandinavian country but I am pretty sure it was Norway who had a Minister of women’s Affairs who said that because Norway was now a multi-cultural country (read – Islamic) that women had to watch what they wore and by inference not to provoke sexual attacks by their immodest attire.
Gerrit
We are not a bi-cultural country we are a multi cultural country made up of many different peoples and the raised status some would give Maori through the treaty is out of keeping with that.
I don’t accept the Treaty as the cornerstone of the constitution of NZ, we’re a democracy so we are supposed to be equal.
In most countries there is a statute of limitations and I understand that to mean, if my great grand father had something stolen off of you I couldn’t claim in the courts could I?
If your auntie died could her assailant be charged with her assault 40 yrs ago?
Why haven’t the Maori tribes who committed genocide on the Mori Ories been charged with that?
The treaty was signed with the colonial crown of England (I suspect so that they could take over this country without bloodshed and save resources) not with us the present day Kiwis.
I and you are not the crown of England, we are New Zealanders as are all Maori who carry the NZ passport, they are not different nor separate citizens, life and the world has moved on as it does.
The taking over of a territory has happened again and again for millenia sometimes with bloodshed and sometimes without.
I see no reason to allow any ethnic group special status in New Zealand over others.
RB
I hope it amounts to nothing but a legal framework is still a legal framework.
Those who desire the UN to have “Power” it doesn’t have over us yet will be closer with it’s signing.
The solution is obvious – halt the immigration, crime will go reduce, and Norwegian women will be able to return to wearing whatever they like without fear of attack.
Yes, Te Tiriti is a living document, so will never be “settled”. It is not just about grievances from the past, but about the ongoing relationship between tangata whenua and tangata tiriti.
But I don’t see why that should be considered “bad news”.
The UN is often criticised for it’s bloated inefficient bureaucracy, self interested members vetoing and blocking and delaying and for doing far too little to late.
Some people seem to claim the UN also has this highly efficient conspiracy to govern the world, where all governments are in step and the vast majority of the world’s climate scientists are willing parts of the grand plan.
Are those labelling the UN as useless also the ones claiming it is managing to effect a takeover of the world?
We are not a bi-cultural country we are a multi cultural country
Totally agree but we have one race group who does not see it that way. But to get consensus on how to intergrate that racial group is very difficult because of the Hadfield (is that really Harawira’s European name?) mentality that the a fued is more important over generations then settlement.
I would be happy to finally draw a line on racial seperation in New Zealand based on who paddled/sailed their waka here first. But are the likes of toad and the Maori people?
But I don’t see why that should be considered “bad news”.
..yes it is because I and others are sick of paying for it dickhead. I dont want an ongoing relationship with tangata whatever
I want an ongoing relationship with ALL NZ’ers…fuck tangata whatever…they can blow it out their arse.
“Yes, Te Tiriti is a living document, so will never be “settled”. It is not just about grievances from the past, but about the ongoing relationship between tangata whenua and tangata tiriti.”
Never saw more crap put together. I reject this garbage!
Yes, Te Tiriti is a living document, so will never be “settled”. It is not just about grievances from the past, but about the ongoing relationship between tangata whenua and tangata tiriti.
So do Maori want their 63 million acres back or not?
toad – bahaha yea the standard is where i go for uncensored debate! a few right wingers must have infiltrated the comments section, suspect they will be banned by this arvo.
Gerrit
“I would be happy to finally draw a line on racial separation in New Zealand based on who paddled/sailed their waka here first. But are the likes of toad and the Maori people?”
You miss the point completely, it has nothing to do with who came first, this is the now and modern age, we are all here and equal. I reject the Tangata Whenua concept that they have a preemptive position over any other Kiwi.
Cool, I saw your point originally. I have the point of view that Maori and the Crown had signed a treaty. A treaty that is now hopelessly dated and in need of a constitution for ALL New Zealanders.
You may choose to ignore history if you wish, I wish to acknowledge it and find a way forward.
I think we are on the same page, just have a different starting point on how to get to the promised land that New Zealand could be.
Gerrit
I do acknowledge the past but it has no bearing on how I view our positions as equal citizens in NZ.
Yes the treaty was signed by the British Crown (having been encouraged or initiated for it’s strategic needs) not by me or the majority of Kiwis.
In my mind Maori were equal with British people in New Zealand as they are today as Kiwis.
The contention is what did/do they own and/or what did the Treaty with the British Crown mean they own/owned.
The agreement was with the British Crown not us and certainly didn’t include all the beaches, rivers, mountains, lakes and airwaves.
I am happy to leave it in Te Papa or burn it, as it doesn’t have any bearing to me on us constitutionally or status wise.
Some who identify as Maori have a different view.
“..In his decision dismissing a lawsuit filed by Orly Taitz late last month, U.S. District Court Judge David O. Carterr mentioned that some witnesses complained that the birther chief urged them to lie on the stand. Now, more details are out, as one of the witnesses has made his affidavit public.
Lucas Smith, a fellow conspiracy theorist who Taitz identified in her lawsuit as the discoverer of Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate, gave his statement to the Orange County Register.
Among the allegations Smith makes is that Taitz asked him to say that he was the one who obtained a document that was alleged to be a 1964 Kenyan birth certificate for Barack Hussein Obama II. He says he didn’t. That document had been called a forgery by experts, and Smith said his own research also concluded that the document was fake. He also alleges that Taitz asked him to give false testimony about speaking to specific people in Africa, and that she asked two other people to lie under oath.
“It began to become clearer and clearer to me that Orly Taitz had no understanding of the law,” he writes. “I came to an exhaustive conclusion that Orly Taitz may be the ‘Birthers’ worst nightmare. Outside of paying attention to her own voice at length, Orly Taitz has the attention of a small child’..
If I said “brown motherfu**ers were financially raping the people of NZ by way of our social welfare system” would that be racist or a statement of fact?
If I said “brown motherfu**ers were committing genocide against their own kids” would that be racist or a statement of fact?
If you defend John Harawira’s comments then surely you would have no issues with what I have just said.
“.. As the world prepares for the Copenhagen climate negotiations next month ..
.. it is worth checking out the greenwash that has followed the promises made 12 years ago when the Kyoto protocol was signed.
A surprising number of countries have succeeded in raising their emissions from 1990 levels despite signing up to reduce them.
They include a bundle of countries in the European Union, which collectively agreed to let some nations increase their emissions while others (mainly Britain and Germany) cut theirs.
Step forward Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece — all with emissions up by more than a quarter.
Then there are the US and Australia, which both reneged on the protocol after signing it.
And Canada, which never reneged but still has emissions up by a quarter (worse than the US) ..
.. and shows no sign of contrition .. or of being called to account by the other signatories.
But my prize for the most shameless two fingers to the global community goes to New Zealand..
.. a country that sells itself round the world as “clean and green”.
New Zealand secured a generous Kyoto target, which simply required it not to increase its emissions between 1990 and 2010.
But the latest UN statistics show its emissions of greenhouse gases up by 22% ..
.. or a whopping 39% if you look at emissions from fuel burning alone.
Some countries with big emissions growth started from a low figure in 1990.
Arguably, they were playing catchup.
There is no such excuse for New Zealand.
Its emissions started high and went higher.
They are today 60% higher than those of Britain, per head of population.
Among industrialised nations, they are only exceeded by Canada, the US, Australia and Luxembourg.
In recent years a lot of Brits have headed for Christchurch and Wellington in the hope of a green life in a country where they filmed the Lord of the Rings.
But it’s a green mirage.
To rub our noses in it, last year New Zealand signed up to the UN’s Climate Neutral Network ..
.. a list of nations that are “laying out strategies to become carbon neutral”.
But if you read the small print of what New Zealand has actually promised, it is a measly 50% in emissions by 2050 –
– something even the US can trump.
Where do all these emissions come from?
New Zealand turns out to be mining ever more filthy brown coal to burn in its power stations.
It has the world’s third highest rate of car ownership.
And, with more cows than people ..
.. the country’s increasingly intensive agricultural sector is responsible for approaching half the greenhouse gas emissions..”
Investors willing to back the discovery and development of New Zealand oil reserves could be investing in a country at the same stage as Norway in the pre-North Sea era, says a leading US money manager.
:
Only last week, Todd Energy chief executive Richard Tweedie confirmed Maari and its adjacent Manaia field in offshore Taranaki were home to 100 million barrels of recoverable oil, making it New Zealand’s largest crude oil field and twice the original 50 million barrels found at the Tui fields.
:
The world’s biggest sovereign wealth funds are backing oil and gas exploration in the Asia Pacific. At $598b, Norway’s global government pension fund is the world’s second largest wealth fund. It has snowballed in size after Norway’s decision to treat oil proceeds and royalties as investment capital and not revenue like Britain.
The last snippet is interesting. If I’m reading this correctly, Norway (over which socialists go dewy-eyed in adoration) chose to forego tax revenue in their treatment of oil profits. The result being a massive increase in their pension fund. I’m guessing they’re not struggling with immigration to try to prop up their tax base to pension their aging population, as are their Scandinavian neighbours!
As you obviously support the tripe you enforce on us through trolling answer me this in a decisive way.
The $2.3b minimum NZ’ers will pay in 2012 for excess carbon usage, who is this paid to and what do they do with it?
How will us tax payers benefit from this payment and how will it benefit climate change?
Similarly it is now clear to me that the parties act for their needs not ours necessarily and as I have now been affected with the anti smacking legislation changes, like many I’m now thinking about the political process and whether it needs changing.
So you want to invent a political system that only elects politicians with no self-interest at all?
Repton
What needs to be done I don’t know, but the social contract has been broken by John Key and The National Party and once broken it is only a matter of time before they do it again.
Just because it seems a little thing doesn’t make it right.
Do you let someone steal and do nothing waiting for them to do it again?
Anyone who was outside in Wellington in the last 30mins will understand when I say that summer has just been taunting us.
That was the fastest weather change I’ve seen in years. The diminishing portion of the harbour was millpond flat and mirror-like, while the rest had breakers and squalls of sea spray!
“13 November 2009
Increasing reports of court registrars and judges preventing parties access to NZ Courts have raised concerns within the New Zealand Human Rights Commission. Commissioner Director Rosslyn Noonan admitted to kiwisfirst that complaints have increased significantly since the loss of the Privy Council and that ensuring access to the courts is a priority of the HRC. She conceded the New Zealand Human Rights Commission has yet to take any appropriate action…”
Applying a grounded-theory approach to analyzing the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor (GEM) data, we attempt to explain why New Zealand exhibits only a moderate level of economic development despite its high level of entrepreneurship.
By statistically analyzing why 34 other countries in the 2005 GEM dataset exhibit small deviations from the classical quadratic curvilinear relationship between entrepreneurship and economic development, we develop a better understanding of the entrepreneurial framework conditions underlying New Zealand’s large deviation from this trend line.
Based on our findings from the GEM data we make policy recommendations that could aid in moving New Zealand (and other countries) closer toward the trend line and thus promote economic development.
An interesting read. A good summary of the findings and suggested actions are found in Section 6, pp15.
To those who thought I came across as anti-marriage recently – my step-daughter came to visit today and to show off her new engagement ring. The diamond was sparkling as much as her smile. I’m very pleased for her and her partner and am proud and fully supportive of this. Marriage may be diminishing but it’s still got a lot going for it.
If Greenland takes a dive does that mean Europe could get an instant ice-age?
Around 12,800 years ago the northern hemisphere was hit by the Younger Dryas mini ice age, or “Big Freeze”. It was triggered by the slowdown of the Gulf Stream…
Some climate scientists have suggested that the Greenland ice sheet could have the same effect if it suddenly melts through climate change, but the 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluded this was unlikely to happen this century.
Patrick STARR……..I agree it is an outrage clearly Potter intended to impose the minimum penalty she could which she did, and she knew her sentence would seem even more bizarre if she allowed the uncensored paragraphs to stand. She probably didn’t want to hear the full degree of the Mr Elliots hurt herself.
Anyone who was outside in Wellington in the last 30mins will understand when I say that summer has just been taunting us.
That was the fastest weather change I’ve seen in years. The diminishing portion of the harbour was millpond flat and mirror-like, while the rest had breakers and squalls of sea spray!
Yeah, I love it when those southerly fronts rip through.
Must be something to do with being raised on the south coast of Wellington.
stephen 3:22 pm,
Summer can hold off until after a certain football game on saturday night IMHO.
Absolutely.
That’ll teach them for ‘acclimatising’ in Sydney – silly boys!
That’s the problem with the IPCC, they could be wrong either way
Nope. They just make it up as they go along. There’s no such thing a right and wrong when climate science is replaced with a marketable fiction, and the stotytellers are able to weave towards the always-intended destination.
To those who thought I came across as anti-marriage recently – my step-daughter came to visit today and to show off her new engagement ring. The diamond was sparkling as much as her smile. I’m very pleased for her and her partner and am proud and fully supportive of this. Marriage may be diminishing but it’s still got a lot going for it.
I’ll give you an ‘amen’ to that, Pete.
Congrats to your step daughter and fiance.
Rise of sea levels is ‘the greatest lie ever told’
If one thing more than any other is used to justify proposals that the world must spend tens of trillions of dollars on combating global warming, it is the belief that we face a disastrous rise in sea levels. The Antarctic and Greenland ice caps will melt, we are told, warming oceans will expand, and the result will be catastrophe.
: But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.
Despite fluctuations down as well as up, “the sea is not rising,” he says. “It hasn’t risen in 50 years.” If there is any rise this century it will “not be more than 10cm (four inches), with an uncertainty of plus or minus 10cm”. And quite apart from examining the hard evidence, he says, the elementary laws of physics (latent heat needed to melt ice) tell us that the apocalypse conjured up by Al Gore and Co could not possibly come about.
Letter to Congress on Mental Health Impacts of Climate Change
As psychologists and other mental health professionals from across the United States, we are deeply concerned about the psychological effects of climate change on our children, families, and fellow citizens. We ask you, as a national leader, to take urgent action now to prevent the growing risks from climate change to our psychological health and the fabric of our society. …
As members of Psychologists for Social Responsibility (PsySR) and other groups with expertise in mental health and behavioral research, we are united in urging the U.S. Congress to take the following immediate legislative actions to prevent climate change’s psychological harm:
1. Legislate cuts in carbon dioxide emissions swiftly and boldly to prevent the greatest psychological harm from climate change. …
Conclusion:
We thank you for taking the time to consider the potentially catastrophic psycho-social repercussions of climate change and for working to create a more sane and humane climate and energy policy for the United States. We recognize that immediate, bold legislative action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is a difficult step for you to take when faced with constituents who have vested interests, others who simply don’t seem to care, and still more who know something must be done but are afraid of what that might look like. But we also honor your role in placing our nation at the forefront of deterring the impending mental and physical peril we will face if our nation fails to act effectively to thwart climate change here and now. We welcome an opportunity to speak with you or your staff on these issues. Please contact Colleen Cordes, Executive Director of Psychologists for Social Responsibility, at 202-543-5347 or ccordes@psysr.org for more information or for help contacting concerned psychologists and other mental health professionals.
Unbelievable!
Next we’ll be linking AGW to the reduction in lesbian socialist dictators’ sexual performance – obviously another mental health issue. No doubt the tax payer will pay for this as well.
In 2004 the president of INQUA wrote that INQUA did not subscribe to Mörner’s views on climate change.
In 2000 he launched an international sea level research project in the Maldives which claims to demonstrate an absence of signs of any on-going sea level rise. However, his conclusions were not supported by follow-up studies
His other claim to fame is:
Mörner has written a number of works claiming to provide theoretical support for dowsing. He was elected “Deceiver of the year” by Föreningen Vetenskap och Folkbildning in 1995 for “organizing university courses about dowsing…”. In 1997 James Randi asked him to claim The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, making a controlled experiment to prove that dowsing works. Mörner declined the offer.
Pete, those references are simply others doing what you’re doing: shooting the messinger with a broadside of personal slurs.
Fact: He is a Swedish geologist and physicist , and formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change
Fact: He has studied sea levels all over the globe for 35 years.
Fact: He has said the sea level is not rising, and hasn’t in 50 years.
Fact: He has stated that that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.
These are the facts, irrespective of whether or not they fit your idea of truth.
But if you prefer to deflect(the story), deny(the evidence) and/or denigrate(the expert) then go right ahead. We come to expect that reaction to anyone who dares question the religion of climate change.
Treaty of Copenhagen (draft copy) – will facilitate Golbal Governance:
Lord Monckton:
Get onto the media, tell them about this treaty. If they go to http://www.wattsupwiththat.com, they will find (if they look carefully enough) a copy of that treaty, because I arranged for it to be posted there not so long ago. Let them read it, and let the press tell the people that their democracy is about to be taken away for no good purpose, at least [with] no scientific basis [in reference to climate change]. Tell the press to say this. Tell the press to say that, even if there is a problem [with climate change], you don’t want your democracy taken away. It really is as simple as that.
38. The scheme for the new institutional arrangement under the Convention will be based on three basic pillars: government; facilitative mechanism; and financial mechanism, and the basic organization of which will include the following:
World Government (heading added)
a) The government will be ruled by the COP with the support of a new subsidiary body on adaptation, and of an Executive Board responsible for the management of the new funds and the related facilitative processes and bodies. The current Convention secretariat will operate as such, as appropriate.
Change of subject for a mo!
Free-trade deal with Hong Kong announced
By John Armstrong
Breaking 3:15 PM Friday Nov 13, 2009
New Zealand has negotiated yet another free-trade agreement with an Asian economy, the latest being with Hong Kong.
The deal was announced today at the summit of Asian-Pacific leaders in Singapore and follows the unveiling of similar agreements with China, Malaysia and some Gulf states.
Prime Minister John Key, who is attending his second APEC meeting, said the Hong Kong deal was another link in the chain of such agreements.
“It is another gateway into the Asian region,” he said.
He said the agreement was largely based in the services sector and would benefit New Zealand companies seeking to grow in the Hong Kong market.
New Zealand and Hong Kong previously tried to hammer out a free trade agreement in 2002 but negotiations broke down. My question is this: When we also get the sane tax regime as Hong Kong?
When will we get a tax deed that limits the taxation that we have to pay ,just like Hong Kong?
Well I guess we won’t because the Nats. don’t think its necessary to limit their capacity to rape and plunder the tax payer. Hone is right. The white man does rape and plunder everything they touch. Especially our money.
On top of that English this morning has decided that the recession is coming to an end,(at his place maybe), and that he is going to close of the fiscal stimulus, just as Australia are going inti their downhill having staved it all off by spending their purse and now racking up debt.
The fools and assorted weirdos are certainly out in force in the comments section of The Telegraph report linked by getstaffed!
My suggestion is to do what I have found useful. Go to the primary source, in this case, the IPCC, instead of just listening to or reading what others say about it. I must say I have certainly been enlightened and impressed by the quality of the various reports available.
For example, this is a report on the scientific basis of attributing significant climate change to anthropogenic causes:
United States President Barack Obama may have some very good news after all for New Zealand exporters when he attends the annual Apec summit this weekend.
Indications firmed yesterday that the President will briefly touch on the potential expansion of the four-nation Trans Pacific Partnership, of which New Zealand is a founding member, into a much wider and more lucrative free trade agreement spanning the Pacific.
Mr Obama had been expected to outline his trade priorities in a speech tomorrow morning to the CEO Business Summit, which runs parallel to the meeting of the 21 Asia-Pacific economies.
But his late arrival in Singapore – he will miss a large chunk of discussions between the other leaders – meant that speech had to cancelled.
Totally ignoring the fact the Zero is a protectionist, put tariffs on Chinese tyres, made no movement on a Colombian free trade pact and that most people regard P4 as dead, the Huruld puts its very own pro-Zero spin on “indications.”
Fast forward ten hours later and there’s something about APEC on the TV news. New Zealand has a free trade pact with Hong Kong. The US is nowhere to be seen. Everyone is bemused about the no-show, leading Bill English to warn about the Americans falling off the gravy train. Off I go to the Huruld’s website to see if the super important story is in the appropriate section. Is it FUCK. It’s tucked away nicely in the politics section, away from the main news and anything regarding business. Lot of stuff prominently on the home page about HK though. Strange, considering the Huruld’s editor decided it was so important it belongs on page 2.
I KNEW when I saw it in the paper it was a load of junk. Tonight confirmed that. Why am I doing a better job than the Huruld? Why is the Huruld still in love-struck schoolgirl mode, seeking to mould Zero into what they’d like him to be rather than what everyone now realises him to be? Why is the Huruld even allowed to print such ill-informed junk such as what John Armstrong did? Still, this is the newspaper that prints Gwen Dyer, Johann Hari and Tapu Misa but even so, I shouldn’t be this pissed off. Goddamn.
Kris K, Slam dunk but this is what these dribbling lefty fools desire. We are dealing with evil bastards here and our own government is willing to sale it’s citizens into bondage. I bet these lefty clowns won’t be so clever when they wake up and realise the pot is boiling and their sorry arses are turning red. And your post about how “climate change” is effecting the mental health of children, I would include a fair group of adults? that post here are also suffering mental health issues due to climate change.
Strange, I have just downloaded the Treaty of Copenhagen text (just google it) and can’t find any of the quote above. In fact, no section goes up to 38 clauses! I’m puzzled. And I’m very suspicious of the “added” bits, but that’s just me being a bit of conspiracy junkie, I guess
Now for something completely different, especially for those who want to have more right to hit their kids than they have to hit a fellow adult:
My daughter is now 14 mths old and discovering defiance, in fact, exulting in her new discovery of defiance! Of course, this frustrates me greatly, like when she deliberately, with her eyes firmly fixed on mine, and a little smile on her dial, turfs her plate of lovingly made, newly delivered food goodies off her high chair tray and onto the floor. As I am trying to pretend to be aghast.
In my first life as a father, a quick smack around her chops would have been my automatic recourse – as it was for any adult who upset me in those days too
Now, thanks to mouthing off in places like here, and down at the pub, and listening to Sue B and Plunket (not Sean) etc., I just have to suck it in and clean up the mess and, because she is just a baby, organise a new food offering for the little tyrant.
I guess it’s amazing how much we can change over 35 years!
getstaffed: Fact: He is a Swedish geologist and physicist , and formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change
International Union for Quaternary Research
July 21, 2004
Academician Yuri Osipov
President of the Russian Academy of Sciences
14 Leninskii pr
Moscow 119991, Russia
Dear Dr. Osipov:
It has come to my attention that Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner gave presentations at the seminar on climate change organized by the Russian Academy of Sciences at the request of President Vladimir Putin earlier this month. Dr. Mörner attacked the science of climate change, while claiming that he is President of the Commission on Sea Level Change of INQUA (International Union for Quaternary Research).
I am writing to inform you that Dr. Mörner has misrepresented his position with INQUA. Dr. Mörner was President of the Commission on Sea Level Change until July 2003, but the commission was terminated at that time during a reorganization of the commission structure of INQUA. Dr. Mörner currently has no formal position in INQUA, and I am distressed that he continues to represent himself in his former capacity. Further, INQUA, which is an umbrella organization for hundreds of researchers knowledgeable about past climate, does not subscribe to Mörner’s position on climate change. Nearly all of these researchers agree that humans are modifying Earth’s climate, a position diametrically opposed to Dr. Mörner’s point of view.
Heh. I bought my first paper copy of the NZ Herald in a decade the other day.
I’d finally used up all the old papers for the starting the fireplace on the farm
But yeah – this is what is meant by their left-wing bias, even as they have puff pieces on Key that drive the lefties crazy. They’re not “ideological” in the sense of having a commitment to intellectually pushing left-wing ideas. They’re just comfortable with whatever statist is in power delivering “free” stuff to poor people. As long as that is left in place they can sleep at night and will publish brain-dead, rah-rah stuff about their latest “fave” and simply ignore any negative story about them.
The narrative is bad enough, but that it has to be so cheerleadingly moronic is the real killer.
Hurf said: Still, this is the newspaper that prints Gwen Dyer, Johann Hari and Tapu Misa but even so, I shouldn’t be this pissed off. Goddamn.
Indeed they do, to their great credit but, to their shame, they persist with the old fool Garth George. I used to get a few letters into the Herald slagging off dear George.
Once I even fired off a letter just on the basis of the Wednesday one line promo of his Thursday column and I guessed what he was going to say so accurately it was published Friday!
But that all stopped when I got a warning email from the editor, another godbotherer in those days, not to call his mental health into question. I left him alone after that because I didn’t want to hurt his feelings, poor fellow.
Anyway, why is negotiating a free trade deal such a big deal? Don’t you just sit down and say no more tariffs, sign here?
We are talking about different documents. The one you linked to is NOT the Treaty of Copenhagen and Monkton’s case seems to rest upon interpretation of one word, ‘government’. I wonder if we would call it ‘governance’?
For example, one contract is a 385 million dollar logistics contract to the son of the Afghan Minister of Defence, of which they say at least 10% goes to warlords and the Taleban to guarantee safe passage.
It just shows that nothing changes over time. Going back 3000 odd years, the Arabian caravan trade existed by paying tribute to the local warlords on their way to what we know now as Iraq, Iran, Turkey and beyond. It was also the original, but peaceful, Arab invasion of the Middle East as the traders set up outposts (familiar word?) to facilitate their trade.
And I guess it shows also that Aghanistan never needed to be bombed back to the stone age because it never emerged from it!
Re Getstaffed’s 12.30 post about the Stuff article suggesting NZ is about to experience an oil bonanza (link below)…
Upgrading of the estimated reserves of the offshore Manaia and Maari fields to 100 million barrels is welcome news and for a short time will put a dent (but no more) in our overseas trade deficit. But to suggest NZ is on the verge of a bonanza is gilding the lily.
100m barrels is significant, being equivalent to slightly less than 3.5 days production of the combined oilfields of Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the US.
However, if there is a bonanza, why do NZ explorers find it so hard and expensive to attract offshore rigs to NZ?
It is a sad fact that NZ drillers are generally much more likely to strike gas than oil.
While the Manaia-Maari reserve upgrade is to be welcomed, let’s cut the bonanza crap. Leave that with Invercargill’s over-the-top mayor, who talks of his city’s becoming the new Dallas, before oil reserves are proven in the Great South Basin, before it is proved the structures contain significant amounts of oil rather than gas, before it is established it will be economic to extract oil there if and when it is found in production quantities.
I honestly hope we don’t find large quantities of oil here, as a Nation we would suffer in the long run as it will allow further stupidity from minority’s and big government.
Pete, So lemme get this right: Mörner claims to be the ‘former chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change’ while his title, according to John J. Clague (Not ‘Dr’ I note..) was ‘President of the [INQUA's] Commission on Sea Level Change. And this is a big deal how? Clutching. At. Straws.
The guy is an expert and his opinion is not supported by the ‘majority’. Remember science is about fact and truth, not about consensus, so the idea that ‘majority’ has any meaning is just nuts. But that won’t stop the ‘majority’ (scientists or fellow travelers) working overtime to denigrate the source of contra viewpoints. Such is modern scientific method …
Further, anyone here have a CV? Yes? Well we ALL use past experience and credentials to lend weight to our future pursuits. That Clague laments Mörner doing so is too petty to dignify with comment.
Jack5: Agree with you. I’m told that Oil needs to sustain prices north of $150 a barrel (probably more with Obama slaying trees to print more greenbacks) for Great South Basin exploration and recovery to start to look viable.
Toad, one thing that is amusing is the lack of knowledge about NZ history among so many of the so called right wingers.
A civil war, real kiwis would fight, but I would expect a lot of immigrants to head to the airport chanting, run brothers.
Oh should that not be (E hoa, ka whawhai tonu ahau ki a koe, ake, ake!)
Trouble is, the refutation of the deniers is evident on the IPCC website if only you could bring yourself to look at it.
But you can’t, can you?
Anymore than Kris can look at the evolutionary basis of the recorded desire for a “meaning” to a life that in the long term, has none, but in the short term, has heaps.
And just to re-present one fact: Clague positively DISOWNED your mate’s point of view. I agree with you that that is much more important than CV enhancement.
Luc, that would be the same IPCC that falsifies and cherry-picks some datasets, while refusing to let others be transparently peer reviewed? The same IPCC that chooses start-and-end date of trend graphs to support their pre-determined outcomes? While I’m sure their website has some lovely global-warming-climate-change-sealevel-rising data, can you tell the wheat from the chaf? I can’t.
Mörner is perfectly entitled to refer to his past high-ranking role as part of his credentials. When these chaps are introduced at conferences the first 5 minutes is spent regaling the attendees with such information. You do it on your CV. I do it on mine. 100% normal and expected. Clague is just pissed because his predecessor didn’t see the world that way he did/does. That’s petty. So we didn’t agree on that at all!
So lemme get this right: Mörner claims to be the ‘former chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change’
You got it wrong – you have misquoted the letter.
while claiming that he is President of the Commission on Sea Level Change of INQUA
And this is a big deal how
- he continues to represent himself in his former capacity
It would be like Winston Peters going around saying he is an MP rather than a former MP.
Remember science is about fact and truth, not about consensus, so the idea that ‘majority’ has any meaning is just nuts.
Nearly all of these researchers agree that humans are modifying Earth’s climate, a position diametrically opposed to Dr. Mörner’s point of view.
The (growing) weight of evidence, and the huge majority of scientific opinion does have some meaning if you are prepared to look beyond just nuts you keep searching out.
But that won’t stop the ‘majority’ (scientists or fellow travelers) working overtime to denigrate the source of contra viewpoints. Such is modern scientific method …
The majority of scientists are working to find more evidence to test the current views, and as it happens most results keep supporting the majority view.
It is so simple to “denigrate” most contra viewpoints because they are so weak and poorly supported.
You seem to keep searching for straws to clutch to.
Pete, I see… Clague said “while claiming that he is President of the Commission on Sea Level Change of INQUA (International Union for Quaternary Research)
I think most judges would rebuff hearsay (eg he said that he said) as clutching at straws by the prosecution.
You’re very welcome to believe whatever you like, and clearly have plenty of faith in the ‘evidence’ that finds it’s way into the MSM.
But I don’t.
For my part there is sufficient evidence of tampering, falsehoods and other unethical scientific method in the support for soon-to-be catastrophic arthrogenic climate change that I choose skepticism over gullibility.
More of the former ensures better science, while more of the latter promotes naivety and exploitation.
Oh, also I might add that until 2 years ago I was a ‘warmist’, my belief based mostly on what the MSM have been dishing up around global warming / climate change.
Some inconsistencies and a bit of curiosity had me look a little deeper, at which point I discovered a large quantity of contra evidence and some rather alarming ‘warmist science’ that’s been packaged for public consumption.
I don’t think you are displaying skepticism, you seem to have chosen a view and look for the relatively few things out there you think support that view.
Most scientists don’t say it is certain there will soon be catastrophic arthrogenic climate change. They are suggesting probability levels of certain things happen.
I try to be skeptical of aspects of all sides of the argument. When people post an anti climate change argument here I research it and more often than not find it is from a source with poor credibility in the field and has been using falsehoods and other unethical scientific method.
I am most skeptical of those who claim there is no problem and no effect and remain fixed on that view. The argument must be one of degree of effect (from negligible to major), whether we should try and do anything about it, and if we do anything what we should do.
stuffed..do you have educational qualifications that support your rebuttal of the considered views of the vast majority of those who are actually academically qualified to judge this evidence..?
or ..as i suspect.. is it more of a ‘gut-feeling’..?
New data show that the balance between the airborne and the absorbed fraction of carbon dioxide has stayed approximately constant since 1850, despite emissions of carbon dioxide having risen from about 2 billion tons a year in 1850 to 35 billion tons a year now.
This suggests that terrestrial ecosystems and the oceans have a much greater capacity to absorb CO2 than had been previously expected.
The results run contrary to a significant body of recent research which expects that the capacity of terrestrial ecosystems and the oceans to absorb CO2 should start to diminish as CO2 emissions increase, letting greenhouse gas levels skyrocket. Dr Wolfgang Knorr at the University of Bristol found that in fact the trend in the airborne fraction since 1850 has only been 0.7 ± 1.4% per decade, which is essentially zero.
Lots of similar findings now starting to appear, but they don’t make the MSM – not sensational enough. That in itself should be cause for concern.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Hey Hone it’s a black friday bro!
November 13th, 2009 at 8:09 am
Why is there no debate in the Media about the draft document for the Copenhagen talks and it’s implications?
Is it because it is 181 pages long and people would prefer a 20 page synopsis of the main points?
Come on you legal beagles who lurk here, have you read it?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:12 am
People in the north probably have been ignoring the present crisis in the Invercargill City Council. As a Southlander I watch with interest.
Tim Shadbolt is in the midst of his dying throes as Mayor of Invercargill.
Over the past few years Tim has spent a lot of his time out of Invercargill making money. Things have been left with Cr Neil Boniface a long serving and competent deputy-mayor. Much of Invercargill’s moving ahead can be attributed to Cr Boniface and the remainder of council.
Tim has come back and found that the political climate in Invercargill and the ICC bad and so he is trying to distract and confuse the people of Invercargill. He is currently trying to line up support to beat off his opponents by promising jobs for those that support him.
All the division in council can be attributed to one person, who has been blinded by celebrity and his need for material matters.
The voters will decide next year. Incidentally, Tim is away to Norway to inspect oil facilities there in preparation for Invercargill’s great discovery of oil and gas in the Great Southern Basin. I wonder who is running the show in Invercargill?
It is very sad for Invercargill, but just remember Tim’s efforts in Auckland.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:14 am
The more I hear about the justice system the more horrified I am.
The Judge in the Weatherston case heavily censored the victim impact statement of Sophie’s father. Presumably this is the same judge that subjected the poor family to the indignity of a provocation defence?
clearly the father wanted to get this off his chest – but disallowed for no other reason than probably hurting that sick bastards feelings
FFS whats the system come to?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10609000
November 13th, 2009 at 8:19 am
Are Neil from Kiwiblog and Neil Boniface in any way connected, or is it simply coincidence?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Is Winston’s attack on racist Hone in fact itself racist? Or just opportunist?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:28 am
Winston accuses Hone of racism.
Pot, meet kettle.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:28 am
Yvette, of course it is but Winston’s attack just makes the Maori Party’s job sooooooo much easier.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:29 am
An opportunist pot. Or is he the kettle?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Patrick – the system is far more sympathetic to the voice of victims than it ever has been. So it is not about asking “what has the system come to”. Without going into it in too much depth the criminal justice system is not and never was (not at least in recent history) a system set up for the victim. The reason the state prosecutes individuals who have been harmed is because these are considered breaches against all of us as members of society. It is not designed to be some sort of state run revenge system. But this is slowly being watered down by the likes of Garth McVicor.
Have a look at this article on the Times website for more: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/columnists/article6912860.ece
November 13th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Adolf Fiinkensein – “Winston’s attack just makes the Maori Party’s job sooooooo much easier.”
So you believe the Maori Party really want to dump Hone and will be grateful to Winston for setting that up for them?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Yvette – Hone just told the historical truth. His “rape” and “motherfucker” references may have been misogynist, and I certainly don’t support him using that language any more than I support Trevor Mallard homophobically calling Chris Finlayson “Tinkerbell”. But nothing Hone said was racist – that white colonists were responsible for the alienation of over 60 million acres of Maori land is an undeniable fact.
Winston, by contrast, has repeatedly and disgustingly exploited racism for his own political gain over many years.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:37 am
So a ‘victim impact statement’ is really a ‘judges impact statement’.
Never forget that if judges actually applied the law, 90% of them would be out of a job through a lack of criminals to try. They make their money when the crims are out committing crimes, NOT when they are punished. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!
It is corruption pure and simple.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Patrick, the act that allows victim impact statements has a set of criteria that regulate what can be put in the statements. The judge is supposed to read the statements first to determine whether any part of the statement needs to be redacted.
Edit: N1TCO: exactly.
Swiftman: you have it wrong- if the judges applied the law as it is written more people would get off. Your view of the justice system is totally incorrect.
So, once again, it is the politicians who wrote the rules, not the judges who impletment them, that you should be blaming.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:41 am
What do we get – You have to finish up feeling sorry for the average Joe Citizen, the guy who goes to work for 12 or more hours a day, 6 days a week for the privilege of handing over 25 to 30% of every dollar he earns to the govt.
What does he get in return, he gets to pay another 12.5% of his earnings in a spending tax he has no say over.
He gets to participate in a health system so burdened down with administrative costs and overheads, by the time he gets crook there is no money left to pay for his health care.
He get to elect a new govt every three years, that promptly ignore him and most of what was promised to get his vote, on top of that he watches as the benches get filled with hacks from the list he never voted for, but will now pay for.
He sits by and watches as his elected representatives argue like children in the house, behaviour that would get most kiwi blokes smacked to the ground if they spoke to him like that in the pub.
He watches as his tax dollar gets used in allowances others dream about, he after all is the guy that considers himself lucky to get a new pair of safety boots every year.
He sits by and watches as MP’s he helped to elect, and the ones he didn’t elect but are there anyway, live high on the hog and travel to places his family can only dream about, and then justify the trip with some story so weak that you can see straight through it.
He watches as very well paid govt appointed flunkies erode the values he grew up with and is trying to raise his children with.
He wonders why becoming a solo mother with five kids to five different fathers has become a career choice, and what he did wrong as he can only afford two kids.
He worries every time his kids go out at night as to weather they are going to be knifed, robbed, beaten, or raped by some meth soaked, gang patched, criminal that “society has failed” who is on bail and looking to make a name for himself, or get the money for his next fix.
He wonders why he can get a pizza delivered faster than he can get a policeman to look after him, his family and his property.
Perhaps it’s come time some of the people that claim to run this country stood back and took a long hard look at themselves, their colleagues, their decisions and the repercussions of them, and started working for the guy that put them where they are.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Hmm, go off to get a coffee and the GD starts without me…
Nevermind, here’s the non-political TGIF post
#1 Australian Sea Eagle
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p693940395-5.jpg
#2 Australian Sea Eagle
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p903264634-5.jpg
Enjoy the rest of your day.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:45 am
FES
Good point, But they wrote the rules under instruction from who?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Inventory2 I can assure you I am not related in any way to Neil Boniface. Just shows how suspicious and conspiracy theory oriented some people are.
However I am involved Local Government and know both Tim and Neil
November 13th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Scanner, I emphasise with much of what you say. But it’s not just up to the people that “run” the country. It’s also up to the people of the country.
The anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down has just been celebrated. The people have been celebrated. Despite those who used to “run” the country.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Scanner has written the one of the best blog posts ever.
Congratulations dude and have a great weekend!!!
November 13th, 2009 at 8:49 am
MNZ – It’s fair to assume that they wrote the rules on the instructions of the Ministry of Justice. While they often consult with the Heads of Benchs, the judges have no veto power over anything that is enacted (reinforcing the seperation of powers). But in the end it is up to Ministers and MPs to enact legislation. They have the final say.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Happy to accept your assurance Neil. Far from being a conspiracy theorist, my mind made a connection, and the question was posed. In this case, it seems that I have added 2 and 2 and got 22
November 13th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Themselves, Mike, themselves. Despite the population thinking the legal profession has great power and influence, in reality it has no more than you do. After all, 75% of the legal profession opposed the abolishing of the Privy Council but it still went through.
You make a good point at 8.09am. I saw a Powerlineblog (?) summary of it somewhere, if someone wants to read it. It appears to cede a lot of power to whatever organisation that is set up by the summit.
As to your question on commenting on it? The answer is why bother when nothing we do will affect the government decision on it?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Chthoniid, that second sea eagle pic looks just like Redbaiter – hovering over the blog, face covered and talons ready to strike.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Cranmer’s Blog in the UK has a piece on benefit claimants and UK Labour seats.
The table doesn’t include all the parties seats which is disappointing but I’d be interested in seeing our stats per electorate.
Does anyone know where the same info can be found here?
The poor you will always have with you – and they shall vote Labour
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/
November 13th, 2009 at 8:53 am
NOt1tocommentoften. It’s not about ‘revenge’, It’s all about what is wrong with our system that allows the likes of Whetherston to grandstand his way through a lengthy trial, saying anything he chooses about the victim, making all sorts of wild allegations about the family, but prevents the much grief stricken father from telling murderer he doesn’t know right from wrong?
This is the same system that allows the likes racist fucks like Hone Warawira to abuse those who pay his bill, and indeed protects him under the Bill of Rights as freedom of expression, – yet denies a poor family the right to tell brutal murderer of their daughter he may not be normal?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:57 am
FES
I wasn’t aware, as a non legal beagle I had assumed that the select committees took the tone of the profession either through the law society or through their own advisers who were.
Why bother?
When good men do nothing, they should never moan nor cuss nor seek retribution nor compensation because they never opened their mouths when they could and should both for themselves or for those less fortunate or unable to do so.
You know the quote
November 13th, 2009 at 8:57 am
why is nobody talking about the sub-text/’real’ story around this harawira/maori party brouhaha..?
namely..that harawira..for some time..has been complaining long and hard about what he sees is the maori party selling out to a rightwing national government..
and given how harawira calls a spade a spade..
you can bet he has been beating the ears of sharples/turia et.al..
and this is what any ’split’ will be over..
not that paris holiday..
and not his jibe at goff..
(i still reckon harawira and sue bradford should team up in a new ‘workers/battlers-party’..
harawira will win his northern maori seat…(and so get to bring in bradford/a team of mp’s ..on his coat-tails..
it’s a natural mix..bradford/harawira..
their politics mesh well..
they would each bring their own constituency..
hard to see how they would not get both the northern maori seat…and crack 5%..
(to me..it’s a no-brainer..
and boy..!..are they/a workers/battlers-party ‘needed’..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 8:58 am
i thought all ‘neil’s were related..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Patrick, it was about telling the prisoner what the father of the deceased woman thought of his defence and his statements in the witness box. That was not for the father to say in a victim IMPACT statement. Further, some of the things that he says he could not possibly know to be true or not.
What the ‘public’ wants is the opportunity to vilify those being sentenced, rather than tell of the impact the offending had.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Yvette, in a word, YES.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:59 am
FES
It seems everyone and his dog is making representations in the USA, so why not the people who actually know law and what it means, commenting on what something says and will do?
http://www.psysr.org/about/programs/climate/projects/letter/
November 13th, 2009 at 9:01 am
toad,
Whilst most New Zealanders acknowledge the past injustices and the settlement of claims, the process has been hijacked so as to be unending. No full and final settlement will ever take place.
To us Tauiwi we see no settlement in sight either as there is no settllement offer on the table from Maori. Some want independence, some want money, some want 60 million acres returned, some want this, some want that. And every generations wants something more.
What Maori have to be real careful about is that the whole treaty settlement issue becomes a total irrelevance to the rest of New Zealand.
Then the only option left open will be civil war. And the winner of that will be the majority, not a minority.
As Maori have this ingrained need to get their settlement finalised before they can move forward, they need to be more specific in their treaty claims and timeframes. But I suspect that the likes of the Hadfields would rather battle the McCoys then settle any dispute.
The rest of New Zealand is moving forward regardless of Maori claims.
PS what is happening at G.blog? It has died.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:02 am
phil. I think you are right in this instance. And long may they languish in opposition. The only question is – how long will it take Hone to fatten her up before he knocks her on the head?
November 13th, 2009 at 9:03 am
toad said “Yvette – Hone just told the historical truth. His “rape” and “motherfucker” references may have been misogynist, and I certainly don’t support him using that language any more than I support Trevor Mallard homophobically calling Chris Finlayson “Tinkerbell”. But nothing Hone said was racist – that white colonists were responsible for the alienation of over 60 million acres of Maori land is an undeniable fact.”
Your opinion, of course toad. And of course opinions are like arseholes – everyone has one. On this occasion, your opinion and mine are markedly different.
I do however agree wholeheartedly with your comments re Winston Peters – and Trevor Mallard
November 13th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Mike: because signing up to treaties is a policy decision, not a legal one. In this ‘enlightened’ age we can surely trust the government to do what is best for us and need not worry if our national sovereignty appears to be degraded somewhat in our own best interest and that of the planet.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:05 am
sacnner…………….DITTO………very good writing very good read.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:06 am
F E Smith – How is the following deleted statement any of what you say?
“How dare Clayton Weatherston think he had the right to kill Sophie and deprive us of her future, watching her grow and mature into her chosen career”
sounds more like a victim impact
November 13th, 2009 at 9:08 am
..scanner post @ 8.41
post of the year…well done.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Well, I would call it indignation, Patrick, but that is a fair point. Although that is just one point of many that were deleted.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Gerrit said: Then the only option left open will be civil war. And the winner of that will be the majority, not a minority.
I sincerely hope it never comes to that Gerrit, but if it were to, I wouldn’t be so certain about the outcome. Just consider the racial demographic of the armed forces in New Zealand and think about recent history in Fiji for a moment.
Some want independence, some want money, some want 60 million acres returned, some want this, some want that.
We don’t expect all Pakeha or all Indians or all Chinese or all Samoans living in New Zealand to speak with one voice, so why should we expect all Maori to do so?
November 13th, 2009 at 9:20 am
i love the lefts take on this “hone wasn’t being racist, he is factually correct”.
so then its ok for Dime to say “brown motherfuckers make up the majority of our prison population”
“70% of people arrested are brown motherfuckers”
“all these child killing lately have been done by brown motherfuckers”
“brown motherfuckers are better athletes.”
etc etc
the left will defend anything!
November 13th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Scanner
Thanks, very well put.
FES
Will they listen?
I trusted the government not to make me a criminal if a gave my children a smack for corrective purposes and I’m pretty sure that I was very definitely in the majority that time.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:21 am
>>>The poor you will always have with you – and they shall vote Labour<<< So the obvious solution to me is that they should be educated to take their place in a working society all getting an adequate wage …. but that doesn't happen becuase it threatens those educated people in work. That too is a root cause why Hone Harawira feels he has to speak the speak that he does … if his constituents were educated and in gainful employment he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. So why we may depreciate his choice of language it is a result of the mis government by the educated lining their own pockets and wanting an uneducated workforce to do the dirty jobs for little pay. Today we find that even the Maori establishment are ganging up on him as they pussyfoot around. It is even more disgusting than the language Hone used in his private email.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:23 am
neil…A few weeks ago while listening to mayor laws on radio live and he mentioned the front page of your local paper,and that this http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/2980355/Its-the-mayoral-car-but-whos-driving-it UMMMMMMM…. it bit stange….
November 13th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Afghanistan will be lost unless America / NATO ? the West etc commits at least 500,000 soldiers. Ideally 2 million will do including attacking & invading Pakistan as necessary.
Anything less and we will lose in Afghanistan.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:28 am
MikeNZ and others, thanks for the comments, I am sure there are many more people out there that feel like this.
Will they listen? – somehow I doubt it very much, most of the people that this applies to will apply the RDI template, that’s Read, Delete, and Ignore.
I would be extremely surprised if ANY politician from ANY political party would respond, the whole lot of them are too well plugged into the “Gravy Train”
November 13th, 2009 at 9:28 am
dime said: i love the lefts take on this “hone wasn’t being racist, he is factually correct”.
It’s my take, not “the left’s”. If you take a look over at The Standard, you will see some on “the left” taking a position similar to mine, and some disagreeing.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Interesting idea Philu about a workers/battlers party … good one
November 13th, 2009 at 9:31 am
toad,
The armed forces are of New Zealand will have very little bearing on the outcome of a civil war. Even if 80% were of Maori decend, it does not equal to them fighting on a racial divide. Plus the armed forces numbers and resources are not the be all and end all in a civil war.
I expect Maori to speak in one voice as the treaty was signed by the Maori as almost (Tuhoe the only exception?) one voice. This one document is used to set the entitlement to claims, so it is not unreasonable to expect Maori to speak in one voice.
I asked this of Village Idiot/Greenfly on frogblog and got no answer, so will ask this of you.
What do you see as the solution to the Maori grievances that would satify all the treaty partners.
Paint a picture of what you see is the future for New Zealand society. Will we ever be one people or will there always be Maori disaffection with the rest?
November 13th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Of course Hone is being factually correct … the trouble he is upsetting a lot of thinskinned Pakeha and also some of the Maori who don’t want to stir things too. If he used more parliamentary language nobody would listen to him.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Neil @ 8:12am – In the current climate of politicians overseas travel, the Invercargill ratepayers would be wise to scrutinise Shadbolt’s expenses claim when he returns from Norway.
I’ve been to Norway (as my own cost) several times, and it’s a very very expensive country -eg: $30 for two coffees and a scone each at a cafe, $50 for a 3km taxi ride. And as for the heavily-taxed alcohol, well it’s practically out of reach, even for the Norwegians.
So, be sure to scrutinise Shadbolt’s expenses.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Gerrit said: Then the only option left open will be civil war. And the winner of that will be the majority, not a minority.
I sincerely hope it comes to that Gerrit, it will give a lot of us the chance to sort out the malaise that so badly affects NZ, that we have been wanting to do for years.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Scanner
I have to say that I am moving towards a place that the List MP’s don’t really represent us. but their parties and are a tool for the parties use not ours and therefore need to go.
Similarly it is now clear to me that the parties act for their needs not ours necessarily and as I have now been affected with the anti smacking legislation changes, like many I’m now thinking about the political process and whether it needs changing.
You piece whilst short has highlighted that the taxpayer actually needs protecting from parliament, the parties and the politicians, especially caeer politicians and the same might be said for ratepayers and local government.
Short of the guillotine, I don’t see a way forward at present as “they” make the rules as FES has stated, hence parliamentary services is not transparent to those who pay.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:39 am
clintoiids’ pics were the entree..
here is the main course..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/300000-birds-move-at-once-video/
this is an awe-inspiring/beautiful piece of vid..
as 300,000 birds perform an ariel ballet..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Gerrit … the sad thing about the Maori problem is similar to that of the Jews … they have a paranoic persecution complex and until they get over it there can be to real solution. Both are living in the past when evil was done to them and until they grow up there can be no end to the problem. It is probably a chicken and the egg situation that as long as many remain un educated and in the lower ranks of our society they will feel hard done by and race is a convienient excuse. Once they have something more than their heritage to loose they will stop the moans and fit into society instread of populating our prisons. It is there that much could be done if instead of shutting them up and throwing away the key that a detirmined effort was made to educate them the problem should start to go away. Except for a few, people who have something to loose don’t upset the applecart.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:45 am
phil-U-dick, “ariel” was a brand of motorbike
November 13th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Phool “Hone & Sue should form a workers party”, priceless, 9am and already stoned.
And I guess you will be applying for a consultancy position.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:48 am
I was surprised how strong a stand the Maori Party have appeared to take over Harawira – this is just the last of many concerns they have had about him, and if he wants the advantages and power of being part of a party he has to work with the party and not independently.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Yes, Jews have a persecution complex. That may be because most of the world wants to exterminate them.
Latest figures from the States show that the numbers of ‘hate crimes’ reported were.
Hate-crime incidents in the US in 2007: 7,624.
Anti-Islamic incidents: 115.
Anti-Jewish incidents: 969.
Anti-Other religion: 130.
Anti-white: 749.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Bad news folks – the Treaty is never going to be settled!!
Students at Waikato Uni were told last month by a certain lecturer, (who shall remain nameless, but was of Maori ethnicity) , that the ‘Treaty was a ‘living document’ and that the land claims and settlements being made are just another part of the on-going ‘Civil War’ (his words and a phrase that should be noted very carefully) that is currently beuing waged between Maori and ‘the rest’, with ‘the rest’ being all and anyone who is not of Maori ethnicity (whatever THAT may mean).
The fact that this has now become a ‘Guerre Civile’ and is being waged 24/7 will no doubt be news to the majority of our readers and New Zealanders at large , but this statemebnt was publically made to a class of about 100-130 students and shows that this is how things are seen now by Maori academia, (and, by implication, the rest of Maori), a viewpoint summed up, according to the same lecturer, in the phrase ‘we will fight on forever, and ever and ever. . ‘ , (the famous ake, ake, ake ‘ statement first heard at the battle of Gate Pah).
With THAT sort of statement now being made, the comments by certain Maori academics (especially those at Auckland Uni), actually start to make a great deal of sense, and as I pointed-out yesterday, explains why the emphasis has moved – and non-Maori are now the very specific target of the anit-brigade (of which Hone is but one example), aided and abbetted by the ‘melons and their mates in the Mininstry of Education.
The difficulty is of course that the rest of New Zealand actually thought that the ‘land wars’ ended in the 19th century. They didn’t and, as I stated above they are on-going – un-resolved, and never going to be ended because ‘forever and ever and ever’ means literally that to the leaders of Maori-dom.
Think of that next time you see Hone and his ilk on the ‘tube, since with that phrase as their mantra, any statements that Maori leadership make suddenly become quite logiccal. They are still fighting, they will continue to fight ‘for ever and ever and ever.
The rest of the country just hasn’t realised it.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
And for those of you that don’t want to visit the parasitic magpies “blog” to see the quite cool bird video….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81wFZavdhPU&feature=player_embedded
November 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
MikeNZ, you asked a very good question on the Copenhagen Treaty, but nobody responded.
I guess that shows that most people these days accept that climate change was a scam the left tried to pull and failed, and that whatever happens at Copenhagen, it will all eventually amount to nothing.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Chris2 – I may have the wrong Scandinavian country but I am pretty sure it was Norway who had a Minister of women’s Affairs who said that because Norway was now a multi-cultural country (read – Islamic) that women had to watch what they wore and by inference not to provoke sexual attacks by their immodest attire.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Gerrit
We are not a bi-cultural country we are a multi cultural country made up of many different peoples and the raised status some would give Maori through the treaty is out of keeping with that.
I don’t accept the Treaty as the cornerstone of the constitution of NZ, we’re a democracy so we are supposed to be equal.
In most countries there is a statute of limitations and I understand that to mean, if my great grand father had something stolen off of you I couldn’t claim in the courts could I?
If your auntie died could her assailant be charged with her assault 40 yrs ago?
Why haven’t the Maori tribes who committed genocide on the Mori Ories been charged with that?
The treaty was signed with the colonial crown of England (I suspect so that they could take over this country without bloodshed and save resources) not with us the present day Kiwis.
I and you are not the crown of England, we are New Zealanders as are all Maori who carry the NZ passport, they are not different nor separate citizens, life and the world has moved on as it does.
The taking over of a territory has happened again and again for millenia sometimes with bloodshed and sometimes without.
I see no reason to allow any ethnic group special status in New Zealand over others.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:54 am
RB
I hope it amounts to nothing but a legal framework is still a legal framework.
Those who desire the UN to have “Power” it doesn’t have over us yet will be closer with it’s signing.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:57 am
“phil. I think you are right in this instance. ”
Wow! We’re seeing the unholy alliance of a Green idler and National’s cheerleader. What’s the world coming to?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Brian Smaller – it probably is Norway you are thinking of. The robbery crime rate in Oslo has risen 20% in just a few years, which the Police put down to an influx of immigrants (http://africanpress.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/crime-rate-rockets-in-norway/).
The solution is obvious – halt the immigration, crime will go reduce, and Norwegian women will be able to return to wearing whatever they like without fear of attack.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am
@Komata 9:50 am
Ka whawhai tonu mātou! Ake, ake ake!
Yes, Te Tiriti is a living document, so will never be “settled”. It is not just about grievances from the past, but about the ongoing relationship between tangata whenua and tangata tiriti.
But I don’t see why that should be considered “bad news”.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Didn’t see or here this on the news….. where’s mighty mike porkchop king on this one http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/3055627/SPCA-at-Maori-Kings-property
November 13th, 2009 at 10:06 am
The UN is often criticised for it’s bloated inefficient bureaucracy, self interested members vetoing and blocking and delaying and for doing far too little to late.
Some people seem to claim the UN also has this highly efficient conspiracy to govern the world, where all governments are in step and the vast majority of the world’s climate scientists are willing parts of the grand plan.
Are those labelling the UN as useless also the ones claiming it is managing to effect a takeover of the world?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:07 am
MikeNZ,
Totally agree but we have one race group who does not see it that way. But to get consensus on how to intergrate that racial group is very difficult because of the Hadfield (is that really Harawira’s European name?) mentality that the a fued is more important over generations then settlement.
http://www.blueridgecountry.com/archive/hatfields-and-mccoys.html
I would be happy to finally draw a line on racial seperation in New Zealand based on who paddled/sailed their waka here first. But are the likes of toad and the Maori people?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:09 am
But I don’t see why that should be considered “bad news”.
..yes it is because I and others are sick of paying for it dickhead. I dont want an ongoing relationship with tangata whatever
I want an ongoing relationship with ALL NZ’ers…fuck tangata whatever…they can blow it out their arse.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:16 am
“Yes, Te Tiriti is a living document, so will never be “settled”. It is not just about grievances from the past, but about the ongoing relationship between tangata whenua and tangata tiriti.”
Never saw more crap put together. I reject this garbage!
November 13th, 2009 at 10:19 am
toad
So do Maori want their 63 million acres back or not?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:23 am
toad – bahaha yea the standard is where i go for uncensored debate! a few right wingers must have infiltrated the comments section, suspect they will be banned by this arvo.
the left arent fans of free speech.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Gerrit
“I would be happy to finally draw a line on racial separation in New Zealand based on who paddled/sailed their waka here first. But are the likes of toad and the Maori people?”
You miss the point completely, it has nothing to do with who came first, this is the now and modern age, we are all here and equal. I reject the Tangata Whenua concept that they have a preemptive position over any other Kiwi.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:28 am
scanner (120) Vote: 28 0 Says:
November 13th, 2009 at 8:41 am – Bloody brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 13th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Toad
At what stage do you stop being an apologist for the racist outbursts of the Maori party?
Turia compared “colonisation” to the holocaust
John Harawira called the majority of Kiwis “white motherfu**ers” and ‘rapists”
The Greens are the ONLY party not to condemn Harawira, just where is the line for you guys?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:29 am
MikeNZ – you mean blown off course and hopelessly lost
November 13th, 2009 at 10:34 am
MikeNZ,
Cool, I saw your point originally. I have the point of view that Maori and the Crown had signed a treaty. A treaty that is now hopelessly dated and in need of a constitution for ALL New Zealanders.
You may choose to ignore history if you wish, I wish to acknowledge it and find a way forward.
I think we are on the same page, just have a different starting point on how to get to the promised land that New Zealand could be.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:36 am
@Scanner 8:41am – A top post.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Sheep are not a taonga in the same way that settlement money is.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Black Friday? Not with Chthoniid’s great pictures at 8.44am.
Thank you once again Chthoniid. A book coming, surely?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:56 am
@big bruv 10:29 am
I’ll condemn him for his misogynist language and for skiving off to Paris, but not for the sentiment of what he said, because it is true.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Gerrit
I do acknowledge the past but it has no bearing on how I view our positions as equal citizens in NZ.
Yes the treaty was signed by the British Crown (having been encouraged or initiated for it’s strategic needs) not by me or the majority of Kiwis.
In my mind Maori were equal with British people in New Zealand as they are today as Kiwis.
The contention is what did/do they own and/or what did the Treaty with the British Crown mean they own/owned.
The agreement was with the British Crown not us and certainly didn’t include all the beaches, rivers, mountains, lakes and airwaves.
I am happy to leave it in Te Papa or burn it, as it doesn’t have any bearing to me on us constitutionally or status wise.
Some who identify as Maori have a different view.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:06 am
here ya go red-bait…!
something for yr orly taitz-file..
eh..?
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/birther-lawsuit-witnesses-orly-taitz-told-us-to-lie/
November 13th, 2009 at 11:22 am
“but not for the sentiment of what he said, because it is true.”
so Toad – what you’re saying is it is OK to condemn anyone – (or their ansectors) for any wrongdoing provided it’s true?
November 13th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Now Orly Taitz can focus on her next job – campaign manager for Sarah Palin.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
toad is just shit stirring…he doesnt really believe what he is saying.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Toad
So where is the line?
If I said “brown motherfu**ers were financially raping the people of NZ by way of our social welfare system” would that be racist or a statement of fact?
If I said “brown motherfu**ers were committing genocide against their own kids” would that be racist or a statement of fact?
If you defend John Harawira’s comments then surely you would have no issues with what I have just said.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Please also, can somebody explain to me how mofo is misogynistic? Sounds more like a criticism of the males that might carry out this activity.
cf: if I call somebody a sheep-shagger, should my comment be taken as hateful towards animals?
November 13th, 2009 at 11:47 am
ah welll..!..so much for our ‘clean/green’ myth/bullshit..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/new-zealand-was-a-friend-to-middle-earth-but-its-no-friend-of-the-earthlord-of-the-rings-country-trades-on-its-natural-beauty-but-emissions-have-risen-22-since-it-signed-up-to-kyoto/
November 13th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Phool
Nobody cares what the Guardian has to say about anything?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
From Stuff:
The last snippet is interesting. If I’m reading this correctly, Norway (over which socialists go dewy-eyed in adoration) chose to forego tax revenue in their treatment of oil profits. The result being a massive increase in their pension fund. I’m guessing they’re not struggling with immigration to try to prop up their tax base to pension their aging population, as are their Scandinavian neighbours!
November 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Phool
As you obviously support the tripe you enforce on us through trolling answer me this in a decisive way.
The $2.3b minimum NZ’ers will pay in 2012 for excess carbon usage, who is this paid to and what do they do with it?
How will us tax payers benefit from this payment and how will it benefit climate change?
This is your chance to prove yourself.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
big bruv, nobody cares what phlu has to say about anything either
November 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
@MikeNZ:
So you want to invent a political system that only elects politicians with no self-interest at all?
Good luck with that.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“..# big bruv (4870) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 1 Says:
November 13th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Phool
Nobody cares what the Guardian has to say about anything?
..”
oh really..?
is that why the herald has it top of its’ website..?
d’yareckon..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
So much for a “two fingered salute”, I give the alarmists a royal one fingered salute and a loud fuck off as I get into my hummer each day.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Repton
What needs to be done I don’t know, but the social contract has been broken by John Key and The National Party and once broken it is only a matter of time before they do it again.
Just because it seems a little thing doesn’t make it right.
Do you let someone steal and do nothing waiting for them to do it again?
November 13th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
“oh really..?
is that why the herald has it top of its’ website..?”
sure – right next to the ad for bacon
November 13th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Anyone who was outside in Wellington in the last 30mins will understand when I say that summer has just been taunting us.
That was the fastest weather change I’ve seen in years. The diminishing portion of the harbour was millpond flat and mirror-like, while the rest had breakers and squalls of sea spray!
November 13th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Summer can hold off until after a certain football game on saturday night IMHO.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Oh dear, Philu
It looks like you do not know the answers.
That means you do not even understand the crap you are force feeding us.
Sad, really sad, but do not be too downhearted cause I doubt any greenie could answer it decisively, including the Toad.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
in honor of toads stance, im gonna get extra plastic bags next time i go shopping
might even burn the fuckers 
November 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
kiwisfirst.com
“13 November 2009
Increasing reports of court registrars and judges preventing parties access to NZ Courts have raised concerns within the New Zealand Human Rights Commission. Commissioner Director Rosslyn Noonan admitted to kiwisfirst that complaints have increased significantly since the loss of the Privy Council and that ensuring access to the courts is a priority of the HRC. She conceded the New Zealand Human Rights Commission has yet to take any appropriate action…”
November 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
New Zealand’s Perfect Storm of Entrepreneurship and Economic Development
Introduction:
An interesting read. A good summary of the findings and suggested actions are found in Section 6, pp15.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
the bbc is reporting the greenland ice-shelf is melting much faster than the highest previous predictions..
they note that should that ice-shelf melt..
than global sea-levels will rise 7 metres..
(that figure again..)..’7 metres’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
To those who thought I came across as anti-marriage recently – my step-daughter came to visit today and to show off her new engagement ring. The diamond was sparkling as much as her smile. I’m very pleased for her and her partner and am proud and fully supportive of this. Marriage may be diminishing but it’s still got a lot going for it.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
If Greenland takes a dive does that mean Europe could get an instant ice-age?
That’s the problem with the IPCC, they could be wrong either way.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Patrick STARR……..I agree it is an outrage clearly Potter intended to impose the minimum penalty she could which she did, and she knew her sentence would seem even more bizarre if she allowed the uncensored paragraphs to stand. She probably didn’t want to hear the full degree of the Mr Elliots hurt herself.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
getstaffed 2:31 pm,
Yeah, I love it when those southerly fronts rip through.
Must be something to do with being raised on the south coast of Wellington.
stephen 3:22 pm,
Absolutely.
That’ll teach them for ‘acclimatising’ in Sydney – silly boys!
November 13th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Nope. They just make it up as they go along. There’s no such thing a right and wrong when climate science is replaced with a marketable fiction, and the stotytellers are able to weave towards the always-intended destination.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Pete George 4:26 pm,
I’ll give you an ‘amen’ to that, Pete.
Congrats to your step daughter and fiance.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
From The Telegraph:
November 13th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Speaking of “marketable fiction” (great line GS),
MikeNZ’s 8:59 am comment linked to:
http://www.psysr.org/about/programs/climate/projects/letter/
Unbelievable!
Next we’ll be linking AGW to the reduction in lesbian socialist dictators’ sexual performance – obviously another mental health issue. No doubt the tax payer will pay for this as well.
November 13th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Nils-Axel Mörner
His other claim to fame is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils-Axel_M%C3%B6rner
November 13th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
haha..!..stuffed..
yr expert is yet another wingnut-fraud..
got any more..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
The Guardian dealing in facts?
Yeah, right
November 13th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Pete, those references are simply others doing what you’re doing: shooting the messinger with a broadside of personal slurs.
Fact: He is a Swedish geologist and physicist , and formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change
Fact: He has studied sea levels all over the globe for 35 years.
Fact: He has said the sea level is not rising, and hasn’t in 50 years.
Fact: He has stated that that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.
These are the facts, irrespective of whether or not they fit your idea of truth.
But if you prefer to deflect(the story), deny(the evidence) and/or denigrate(the expert) then go right ahead. We come to expect that reaction to anyone who dares question the religion of climate change.
November 13th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Treaty of Copenhagen (draft copy) – will facilitate Golbal Governance:
Treaty of Copenhagen excerpts:
If this stuff doesn’t concern you, then you are a fool!
November 13th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Change of subject for a mo!
Free-trade deal with Hong Kong announced
By John Armstrong
Breaking 3:15 PM Friday Nov 13, 2009
New Zealand has negotiated yet another free-trade agreement with an Asian economy, the latest being with Hong Kong.
The deal was announced today at the summit of Asian-Pacific leaders in Singapore and follows the unveiling of similar agreements with China, Malaysia and some Gulf states.
Prime Minister John Key, who is attending his second APEC meeting, said the Hong Kong deal was another link in the chain of such agreements.
“It is another gateway into the Asian region,” he said.
He said the agreement was largely based in the services sector and would benefit New Zealand companies seeking to grow in the Hong Kong market.
New Zealand and Hong Kong previously tried to hammer out a free trade agreement in 2002 but negotiations broke down. My question is this: When we also get the sane tax regime as Hong Kong?
When will we get a tax deed that limits the taxation that we have to pay ,just like Hong Kong?
Well I guess we won’t because the Nats. don’t think its necessary to limit their capacity to rape and plunder the tax payer. Hone is right. The white man does rape and plunder everything they touch. Especially our money.
On top of that English this morning has decided that the recession is coming to an end,(at his place maybe), and that he is going to close of the fiscal stimulus, just as Australia are going inti their downhill having staved it all off by spending their purse and now racking up debt.
November 13th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
The fools and assorted weirdos are certainly out in force in the comments section of The Telegraph report linked by getstaffed!
My suggestion is to do what I have found useful. Go to the primary source, in this case, the IPCC, instead of just listening to or reading what others say about it. I must say I have certainly been enlightened and impressed by the quality of the various reports available.
For example, this is a report on the scientific basis of attributing significant climate change to anthropogenic causes:
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_ipcc_fourth_assessment_report_wg1_report_the_physical_science_basis.htm
And this is the Table of Contents page
Front Matter
Summary for Policymakers
Technical Summary
Frequently Asked Questions (extracted from chapters below)
Chapter 1 Historical Overview of Climate Change Science
Chapter 2 Changes in Atmospheric Constituents and in Radiative Forcing
Chapter 3 Observations: Surface and Atmospheric Climate Change
Supplementary Material: Appendix 3.B. Techniques, Error Estimation and Measurement Systems (including references)
Chapter 4 Observations: Changes in Snow, Ice and Frozen Ground
Chapter 5 Observations: Oceanic Climate Change and Sea Level
Chapter 6 Palaeoclimate
Supplementary Material: Appendix 6.A. Glossary for Terms Specific to Chapter 6
Chapter 7 Couplings Between Changes in the Climate System and Biogeochemistry
Chapter 8 Climate Models and their Evaluation
Supplementary Material: Appendix 8.A. Supplementary Figures and Tables
Chapter 9 Understanding and Attributing Climate Change
Supplementary Material: Appendices & References
Chapter 10 Global Climate Projections
Supplementary Material: Supplementary Details, Tables & Figures
Figures Showing Individual Model Results for Different Climate Variables
Chapter 11 Regional Climate Projections
Supplementary Material: Appendix 11. Tables, Figures, References (end)
Note that Chapter 9 Understanding and Attributing Climate Change has a section (9.3.3) entitled “What can be Learned from the last 1000 Years”
Wonderful bedtime reading. I look forward to all soundly based objections being discussed here soon.
November 13th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
What the fuck is up with the Herald?
So I open up today’s shitrag to find this printed on the second page:
Totally ignoring the fact the Zero is a protectionist, put tariffs on Chinese tyres, made no movement on a Colombian free trade pact and that most people regard P4 as dead, the Huruld puts its very own pro-Zero spin on “indications.”
Fast forward ten hours later and there’s something about APEC on the TV news. New Zealand has a free trade pact with Hong Kong. The US is nowhere to be seen. Everyone is bemused about the no-show, leading Bill English to warn about the Americans falling off the gravy train. Off I go to the Huruld’s website to see if the super important story is in the appropriate section. Is it FUCK. It’s tucked away nicely in the politics section, away from the main news and anything regarding business. Lot of stuff prominently on the home page about HK though. Strange, considering the Huruld’s editor decided it was so important it belongs on page 2.
I KNEW when I saw it in the paper it was a load of junk. Tonight confirmed that. Why am I doing a better job than the Huruld? Why is the Huruld still in love-struck schoolgirl mode, seeking to mould Zero into what they’d like him to be rather than what everyone now realises him to be? Why is the Huruld even allowed to print such ill-informed junk such as what John Armstrong did? Still, this is the newspaper that prints Gwen Dyer, Johann Hari and Tapu Misa but even so, I shouldn’t be this pissed off. Goddamn.
November 13th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Kris K, Slam dunk but this is what these dribbling lefty fools desire. We are dealing with evil bastards here and our own government is willing to sale it’s citizens into bondage. I bet these lefty clowns won’t be so clever when they wake up and realise the pot is boiling and their sorry arses are turning red. And your post about how “climate change” is effecting the mental health of children, I would include a fair group of adults? that post here are also suffering mental health issues due to climate change.
November 13th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Strange, I have just downloaded the Treaty of Copenhagen text (just google it) and can’t find any of the quote above. In fact, no section goes up to 38 clauses! I’m puzzled. And I’m very suspicious of the “added” bits, but that’s just me being a bit of conspiracy junkie, I guess
November 13th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Now for something completely different, especially for those who want to have more right to hit their kids than they have to hit a fellow adult:
My daughter is now 14 mths old and discovering defiance, in fact, exulting in her new discovery of defiance! Of course, this frustrates me greatly, like when she deliberately, with her eyes firmly fixed on mine, and a little smile on her dial, turfs her plate of lovingly made, newly delivered food goodies off her high chair tray and onto the floor. As I am trying to pretend to be aghast.
In my first life as a father, a quick smack around her chops would have been my automatic recourse – as it was for any adult who upset me in those days too
Now, thanks to mouthing off in places like here, and down at the pub, and listening to Sue B and Plunket (not Sean) etc., I just have to suck it in and clean up the mess and, because she is just a baby, organise a new food offering for the little tyrant.
I guess it’s amazing how much we can change over 35 years!
November 13th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Luc Hansen 7:37 pm,
Treaty of Copenhagen (draft):
If you download the PDF file it’s page 18 at the bottom.
Or just do a text search for ‘38′ – it should be the first result.
Here is the link to the full DPF file (~2mb):
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf
November 13th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
… that’s PDF (not DPF) file.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
getstaffed: Fact: He is a Swedish geologist and physicist , and formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change
November 13th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Hurf
Heh. I bought my first paper copy of the NZ Herald in a decade the other day.
I’d finally used up all the old papers for the starting the fireplace on the farm
But yeah – this is what is meant by their left-wing bias, even as they have puff pieces on Key that drive the lefties crazy. They’re not “ideological” in the sense of having a commitment to intellectually pushing left-wing ideas. They’re just comfortable with whatever statist is in power delivering “free” stuff to poor people. As long as that is left in place they can sleep at night and will publish brain-dead, rah-rah stuff about their latest “fave” and simply ignore any negative story about them.
The narrative is bad enough, but that it has to be so cheerleadingly moronic is the real killer.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Hurf said: Still, this is the newspaper that prints Gwen Dyer, Johann Hari and Tapu Misa but even so, I shouldn’t be this pissed off. Goddamn.
Indeed they do, to their great credit but, to their shame, they persist with the old fool Garth George. I used to get a few letters into the Herald slagging off dear George.
Once I even fired off a letter just on the basis of the Wednesday one line promo of his Thursday column and I guessed what he was going to say so accurately it was published Friday!
But that all stopped when I got a warning email from the editor, another godbotherer in those days, not to call his mental health into question.
I left him alone after that because I didn’t want to hurt his feelings, poor fellow.
Anyway, why is negotiating a free trade deal such a big deal? Don’t you just sit down and say no more tariffs, sign here?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Kris, I have downloaded v1.0.
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/press/reports/ngo-copenhagen-treaty-legal
Does that rank above a draft?
November 13th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Pete
Green karma for the research!
November 13th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Your first action would have been to smack your kid across the face? Goddamn, you suck.
Even the most ardent smacker here would think you’re an idiot for doing that, Luc.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
But Hurf, only lightly!
Unless she smacked me back!
November 13th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Kris
We are talking about different documents. The one you linked to is NOT the Treaty of Copenhagen and Monkton’s case seems to rest upon interpretation of one word, ‘government’. I wonder if we would call it ‘governance’?
Seems to me what the media call a ‘beat up’.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
stuffed..!
it’s your turn..!
don’t cut and run on us now..!
(psstt..!..i think your ‘expert’ is standing naked..eh..?..
and you too..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 13th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Re Viking2 at 6.47 and later posts that mention the FTA with Hong Kong.
Hong Kong is a free port, and does not levy tariffs on any imports.
So what’s the big deal about getting an FTA with Hong Kong? We already have free access.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Irony upon irony in Afghanistan. How the US funds the Taleban. Read it here -
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/roston
For example, one contract is a 385 million dollar logistics contract to the son of the Afghan Minister of Defence, of which they say at least 10% goes to warlords and the Taleban to guarantee safe passage.
It just shows that nothing changes over time. Going back 3000 odd years, the Arabian caravan trade existed by paying tribute to the local warlords on their way to what we know now as Iraq, Iran, Turkey and beyond. It was also the original, but peaceful, Arab invasion of the Middle East as the traders set up outposts (familiar word?) to facilitate their trade.
And I guess it shows also that Aghanistan never needed to be bombed back to the stone age because it never emerged from it!
November 13th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Re Getstaffed’s 12.30 post about the Stuff article suggesting NZ is about to experience an oil bonanza (link below)…
Upgrading of the estimated reserves of the offshore Manaia and Maari fields to 100 million barrels is welcome news and for a short time will put a dent (but no more) in our overseas trade deficit. But to suggest NZ is on the verge of a bonanza is gilding the lily.
100m barrels is significant, being equivalent to slightly less than 3.5 days production of the combined oilfields of Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the US.
However, if there is a bonanza, why do NZ explorers find it so hard and expensive to attract offshore rigs to NZ?
It is a sad fact that NZ drillers are generally much more likely to strike gas than oil.
While the Manaia-Maari reserve upgrade is to be welcomed, let’s cut the bonanza crap. Leave that with Invercargill’s over-the-top mayor, who talks of his city’s becoming the new Dallas, before oil reserves are proven in the Great South Basin, before it is proved the structures contain significant amounts of oil rather than gas, before it is established it will be economic to extract oil there if and when it is found in production quantities.
The Stuff story:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3059510/New-Zealand-set-for-an-oil-bonanza
November 13th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
I honestly hope we don’t find large quantities of oil here, as a Nation we would suffer in the long run as it will allow further stupidity from minority’s and big government.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Further on the oil “bonanza”…
The new estimates put the Manaia and Maari combined reserves at 1.5 per cent the size of Norway’s proven oil reserves.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Pete, So lemme get this right: Mörner claims to be the ‘former chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change’ while his title, according to John J. Clague (Not ‘Dr’ I note..) was ‘President of the [INQUA's] Commission on Sea Level Change. And this is a big deal how? Clutching. At. Straws.
The guy is an expert and his opinion is not supported by the ‘majority’. Remember science is about fact and truth, not about consensus, so the idea that ‘majority’ has any meaning is just nuts. But that won’t stop the ‘majority’ (scientists or fellow travelers) working overtime to denigrate the source of contra viewpoints. Such is modern scientific method …
Further, anyone here have a CV? Yes? Well we ALL use past experience and credentials to lend weight to our future pursuits. That Clague laments Mörner doing so is too petty to dignify with comment.
Jack5: Agree with you. I’m told that Oil needs to sustain prices north of $150 a barrel (probably more with Obama slaying trees to print more greenbacks) for Great South Basin exploration and recovery to start to look viable.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Toad, one thing that is amusing is the lack of knowledge about NZ history among so many of the so called right wingers.
A civil war, real kiwis would fight, but I would expect a lot of immigrants to head to the airport chanting, run brothers.
Oh should that not be (E hoa, ka whawhai tonu ahau ki a koe, ake, ake!)
November 13th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
getstaffed
Trouble is, the refutation of the deniers is evident on the IPCC website if only you could bring yourself to look at it.
But you can’t, can you?
Anymore than Kris can look at the evolutionary basis of the recorded desire for a “meaning” to a life that in the long term, has none, but in the short term, has heaps.
And just to re-present one fact: Clague positively DISOWNED your mate’s point of view. I agree with you that that is much more important than CV enhancement.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Luc, that would be the same IPCC that falsifies and cherry-picks some datasets, while refusing to let others be transparently peer reviewed? The same IPCC that chooses start-and-end date of trend graphs to support their pre-determined outcomes? While I’m sure their website has some lovely global-warming-climate-change-sealevel-rising data, can you tell the wheat from the chaf? I can’t.
Mörner is perfectly entitled to refer to his past high-ranking role as part of his credentials. When these chaps are introduced at conferences the first 5 minutes is spent regaling the attendees with such information. You do it on your CV. I do it on mine. 100% normal and expected. Clague is just pissed because his predecessor didn’t see the world that way he did/does. That’s petty. So we didn’t agree on that at all!
November 14th, 2009 at 1:02 am
You should change your anon handle to Nelson and keep holding that telescope to your eye patch.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:15 am
You got it wrong – you have misquoted the letter.
while claiming that he is President of the Commission on Sea Level Change of INQUA
- he continues to represent himself in his former capacity
It would be like Winston Peters going around saying he is an MP rather than a former MP.
Nearly all of these researchers agree that humans are modifying Earth’s climate, a position diametrically opposed to Dr. Mörner’s point of view.
The (growing) weight of evidence, and the huge majority of scientific opinion does have some meaning if you are prepared to look beyond just nuts you keep searching out.
The majority of scientists are working to find more evidence to test the current views, and as it happens most results keep supporting the majority view.
It is so simple to “denigrate” most contra viewpoints because they are so weak and poorly supported.
You seem to keep searching for straws to clutch to.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Pete, I see… Clague said “while claiming that he is President of the Commission on Sea Level Change of INQUA (International Union for Quaternary Research)
I think most judges would rebuff hearsay (eg he said that he said) as clutching at straws by the prosecution.
You’re very welcome to believe whatever you like, and clearly have plenty of faith in the ‘evidence’ that finds it’s way into the MSM.
But I don’t.
For my part there is sufficient evidence of tampering, falsehoods and other unethical scientific method in the support for soon-to-be catastrophic arthrogenic climate change that I choose skepticism over gullibility.
More of the former ensures better science, while more of the latter promotes naivety and exploitation.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Oh, also I might add that until 2 years ago I was a ‘warmist’, my belief based mostly on what the MSM have been dishing up around global warming / climate change.
Some inconsistencies and a bit of curiosity had me look a little deeper, at which point I discovered a large quantity of contra evidence and some rather alarming ‘warmist science’ that’s been packaged for public consumption.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I don’t think you are displaying skepticism, you seem to have chosen a view and look for the relatively few things out there you think support that view.
Most scientists don’t say it is certain there will soon be catastrophic arthrogenic climate change. They are suggesting probability levels of certain things happen.
I try to be skeptical of aspects of all sides of the argument. When people post an anti climate change argument here I research it and more often than not find it is from a source with poor credibility in the field and has been using falsehoods and other unethical scientific method.
I am most skeptical of those who claim there is no problem and no effect and remain fixed on that view. The argument must be one of degree of effect (from negligible to major), whether we should try and do anything about it, and if we do anything what we should do.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:41 am
stuffed..do you have educational qualifications that support your rebuttal of the considered views of the vast majority of those who are actually academically qualified to judge this evidence..?
or ..as i suspect.. is it more of a ‘gut-feeling’..?
that you are you just pulling out of yr arse..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Vast majority? Where? If it was ‘vast’ once it’s diminishing now.
Witness this just published by Briston University: Controversial new climate change results.
Extract:
Lots of similar findings now starting to appear, but they don’t make the MSM – not sensational enough. That in itself should be cause for concern.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Ooops. By Bristol University