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206 Responses to “General Debate 14 November 2009”
Plan to raise age for driving
By EMILY WATT – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 14/11/2009
The Government is poised to raise the driving age and ban learners from driving powerful cars.
It wants to lift the driving age from 15 to either 16 or 17 and extend the compulsory duration of learner licences to a year.
Transport Minister Steven Joyce said yesterday that young drivers aged 15 to 24 were “seriously over-represented” in crash statistics and the road toll. Young people make up 16 per cent of licensed drivers but are responsible for 37% of accidents.
OK. as far as it goes. But what about the drinking age? and What about the voting age??
I think driving licenses have to toughen up. And somehow then policing of learner license conditions – if they are breached, automatically lose their license.
Drinking – put it back up to 20 for takeaways, leave it at 18 for licensed premises.
Voting – 18 year olds have as much clue about this as a lot of older people ie not much.
Armed forces here are voluntary. From 18? Anyway, I don’t care about them driving a tank around Waiuru, hooning around the streets pissed is more of a worry.
*_Let me see if I understand all this…_* If you copy from the web a long-winded and utterly predictable American rant about illegal immigration, then capitalise it and superficially change it to a NZ context, it is still boring, unfunny, unreadable and factually incorrect.
I agree Robert. In my experience, Hone Harawira is unrepresentative of Maori and is a throwback.
Why has no one in the media asked him about his dumb gang-land hand signs? They could ask: “Mr Harawira, why do you use these gang-land hang signs? Is this is a good example for a Maori MP to set, given the over-representation of Maori in criminal gangs and prison? Do you think this attitude helps Maori or could perhaps perpetuate a mindset of oppression and disadvantage?”
Sorry Tinman, I was too harsh. We should drop driving licenses altogether, no legal drinking restrictions, and politicians free to govern without having to bother with elections. And my mother should be able to be a helicopter pilot in the navy.
Will that be based on CC’s, number of cylinders, Kw rating or what? Will a special commission need to be establishing to monitor car models and classify ‘powerful’ or otherwise? Does high acceleration represents danger, and if so, should we monitor new-model electric cars while accelerate well from standing but have lower top speeds?
And finally, will those that having accidents in ‘powerful’ cars (ie the tiny tiny minority) still drive and crash them, while the vast majority have their mobility restricted?
My daughter would have to walk 15mins to catch a bus to work 7kms away rather than take our family car and would need to taxi home at 9:30pm.
More socialist control-freak nonsense from National.
I suspect Hone is doing a Saddam. He’s trying like hell to convince the world he has HUUUUUUUUGE electoral support and that his winning Te Tai Tokerau is a foregone conclusion.
He is all piss and wind. When push comes to shove, Hone’s electoral support will be as elusive as Saddam’s WMD. The poor black cock sucker (as distinct from a white mother fucker) might have do get out and do a decent day’s work.
Getstaffed, despite all the calculation complications you mention, are you nonetheless classifying your car as “powerful”? . Make and model.
I agree. It’s easy enough to get into trouble by being a dickhead in a car which couldn’t pull the skin off a lightly cooked rice pudding. Vauxhall Viva, anyone? I slid right through a country road intersection. Fortunately there was a clear area on the other side. I was late for a School C exam. I also put my parents Telstar over a bank by being a dickhead on a gravel road. Amazingly no damage to me or the car and dad pulled it out with a truck. It was on such a slope that when I opened the door the weight of it pulled me out.
Trying to deal with idiots by adding more restrictions and laws is both a waste of time and is an infringement and inconvenience on the majority of sensible people.
Rather than trying to catch idiots and dickheads with multiple laws, why not just have one law: “You shall not be an idiot or a dickhead on the road.” Then give the police discretion to ensure that anyone being an “idiot or dickhead” can be stopped and given demerits. Give the police the authority to make the judgements.
malcolm, agreed. I had an accident at age 16 driving a sub 2-litre car. It has been my one and only accident and thankfully no one was injured. I was being a dumbass and with the benefit of hindsight I was probably not wise enough to be left in charge of a vehicle, or the lives of others. I was pretty accomplished driving a software compiler tho .
I’d probably support raising the age at which learners can first drive, and extend the period in which they’re not permitted to carry passengers or drive after dark. As the judge points out in the story, the ‘streams’ processing ability of teens isn’t developed particularly well at 15. There’d need to be some science around determining if 17 or 18 was any better.
Banana Llana you are totally misinformed. Young people can join the NZDF at a minimum age of 17, but only if they have parental/guardian consent or are married. Even then, they can’t be deployed on active service until they are at least 18. Conscription in NZ was phased out a long long time ago, the NZDF is now a totally voluntary organisation.
I think there is a lot of bullshit talked about the age at which people can drive. I got my driving license the day I turned fifteen. That was in 1961. I had been driving farm vehicles since the age of ten. I’ll bet the statistics for accidents involving 15 to 18 year olds do not bear out the proposition that the eligible age for driving should be increased.
Those who call for tougher controls on these younger drivers are closer to the mark. You see, I did not get my first car until I was twenty and my parents made damned sure I was not permitted to take liberties with their car. No booze, no passengers, no nonsense until I had my own vehicle. Just essential journeys.
In turn i would like to say that when i looked at joining i was told 16 1/2 if you are an independent, furthermore conscription is always on the cards regardless of current policy.
The point i am making is that laws seem to be made out of convenience rather than responsibility’s as a citizen, if driving is going to be restricted due to age then one should apply that rule to all things rather than what is convenient.
You have to have some different age rules. Like not getting the pension until you’re 65.
And most are advisable – like not giving ten year olds unrestricted access to any sort of firearms and drugs. It is always about trying to get to right balance.
Does anybody really believe that raising the age at which you can obtain a drivers license will have a major impact on the Road toll?
They can flash statistics around showing younger drivers are involved in more accidents than older ones to their hearts content but given “younger drivers” means under 25 in this context and that not all – probably not even the majority in this day and age obtained their license at 15 it is meaningless. Furthermore some of these “younger drivers” will not even be licensed when they have their accident.
Its just more knee jerk stuff from petty small minded authoritarians which are just as likely to be Nat MPs as Labour – sadly
Anyone who was disgusted by the Close Up programme last night about the tetraplegic who has his attendant care cut back by ACC, which resulted in him being forced to ask strangers to empty his urine bag can express their disgust directly to Liz Cairns, who fronted Close Up for ACC at this email address:
well read this…what a sick fucked up country we are…
Double-murderer Graeme Burton received a free titanium artificial leg worth $10,000 from ACC to replace the right leg lost when he went on a lethal shooting rampage two years ago.
This is old news. I was told this by the HRC when I wrote to them about National Party pandering to Maori in 1998. Its only one of the many distorted and twisted viewpoints that have eased NZ’s slide into Progressivism.
It happens because NZers are 1) uninformed, 2) too cowed by PC to speak out when they do hear of such things, and 3) a bunch of politically apathetic easily manipulated losers anyway who deserve every damn thing that befalls them.
RedBaiter, I was just wondering if you were anonymously including yourself in the “1) uninformed, 2) too cowed by PC to speak out when they do hear of such things, and 3) a bunch of politically apathetic easily manipulated losers anyway who deserve every damn thing that befalls them.” group?
Anyway, how are you getting on finding evidence to support your assertion that: “All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.”?
Given the rate of advancement in technology it is only a matter of time before cars will be able to drive themselves. New car manufacturers are now installing black boxes that can record driving speeds, braking, etc and are used in court cases involving car accidents. On a recent science show, tv, many of these boxes can also be control by satellite and the engine killed if car is nicked. It was also stated that the time is coming when vehicles will be able to be driven by themselves on major roads and speed limits can be control by GPS. Another 10 to 15 years who will need a licence and the car will drive itself home from the pub, cool.
Its a reference to the arrogant and ignorant nature of your posts, and your persistence with the idea that other posters whould volutarily submit to interrogation by lazy fuckwits.
Oh, I see. What was Hauptmann’s first name? It’s a bit obscure. Why not just liken me to Himmler, them everyone would get the point?
Anyway, you dodged the questions.
1] The evidence?
2] Are you a NZer and therefore are you one of the “…easily manipulated losers anyway who deserve every damn thing that befalls them.”?
The problem with driving is lack of experience. The first 2-3 years will have a higher accident rate, and it doesn’t matter if you start at 15 or 25. At least at 15 you are more under a parents control.
If it was raised to 17 there are several problems. It will be harder to get a licenced driver to learn with, so does this mean less supervised hours. After a year of supervision the 18 year old will be able to drive on their own and will have the resourses to buy their own car. A 16 yr old is more likely to be using a borrowed car.
“Yes, I see Reid managed to get a line in there in an attempt to save himself from displaying the same ignorance.”
Fucking D’oh, RB, I marked it as an edit as a response to malcom’s 11:26 which I didn’t read until I’d posted my comment. I thought that that common practice was well understood by everyone, especially experienced bloggers. What’s the matter, having a bad hair day?
I believe that not even during World War 2 did the NZ forces accept recruits under the age of eighteen. Of course, many lied about their age. Particularly young Maori from Ngati Porou but they were allowed to go by their families because they would be ‘looked after’ by older members of the whanau serving in the same battalion.
You have not said anything worth proving wrong. Your technique is always to avoid the main issue- (in this case the apathy of NZers) and focus on some peripheal matter of no real import to the thrust. Hence six posts from you and not one of them deals with the claim that NZers are apathetic. So what’s to prove wrong?
You’re obfuscating again RedBaiter. You must stop doing that. My argument – as you know – was implicit in my repeated request for you to substantiate your baseless assertion. To translate, I was essentially saying:
“I do not accept you assertion that ‘All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.’ I see no evidence of this and challenge you to support your assertion with the evidence you claim to have. If you can’t, I reserve the right to call you a bullshitter who makes baseless and patently false statements to advance your mysterious cause”.
Anyway, we’ve had that fun. You enjoyed it. Admit it. Otherwise you wouldn’t have kept coming back for more, despite claiming to be far too busy.
OK, if NZers are apathetic and deserve everything they get, why aren’t you in government, leading your revolution from the front, rather than anonymously in the comments of OPBs (Other Peoples’ Blogs)?
I’ve never understood our rational as we accept 750 a year from UN but could do more to integrate them better over 2 yr period.
but then we let them use family repatriation and on avg I was told by someone in IA that they bring 4 others with them within 7 yrs.
MFAT does a really good job at facilitating getting the other family members here if need be, with one family they organised (smoke and dagger like) to get travel docs from hostile country so it was all legal and above board as parents had been tortured and were persona non grata. That event brought in 8 kids and granny to two refugees.
So I can’t understand why we don’t send them back on next ship or plane and ban them from ever coming here so we can do the best job we can with those we let in on UN quote.
Maybe it will change under National but Im won’t hold my breath.
“Something you’ve not had to worry about for some years.”
How would you know, RB? BTW, I don’t have that problem, myself. What’s the matter, are you bald? That might explain why you’re so uptight, something has to…
That piece expands on a comment from another article, which gets stuck into Obama’s lack of transparency, special interest group pandering, outright falsehoods and subtle ad hominem attacks on people who disagree with him, but then says:
None of this means Obama himself is something short of very smart and very charming. He is immensely likeable, whatever his performance.
The “Heartthrob” writer goes on to explore this strange paradox and concludes that Obama has the characteristics of an old fashioned con artist. The writer then links to a famous example from the UK – Ronnie Cornwell.
Ronnie Cornwell turns out to be none other than the father of John Le Carre. That, in turn, caused me to think of the character of Rick Pym, from Le Carre’s novel The Perfect Spy. Although he is a secondary character in the book to the prime actor – his son Magnus Pym, the so-named “perfect spy” (and traitor) – the father is the primary reason for Magnus’s betrayal. The reason being that only a society utterly corrupted by money and selfishness could have spawned such a rotter – and that vivid character is largely based on Le Carre’s own father!!!!
So, there you go, from Obama to Rick Pym in the space of a few hyperlinks. Learning in the age of the Web.
“My argument – as you know – was implicit in my repeated request for you to substantiate your baseless assertion.”
It was not implicit. In fact in one exchange (IIRC) you even stated you were asking out of curiosity.
My assertion is in no way baseless. I stand by it, as I do all my assertions, and I will defend it if it is challenged by anyone with a counter argument. I repeat, I am not here to meekly accept interrogation by smug arrogant no argument whining liberals without a POV.
Why don’t you state your POV, support it with your own argument, and I assure you I will take the greatest pleasure in ripping it to pieces.
You won’t do that of course because you don’t have a) the balls or 2) the information.
..and I will defend it if it is challenged by anyone with a counter argument. I repeat, I am not here to meekly accept interrogation by smug arrogant no argument whining liberals without a POV.
There is no counter-argument to a baseless assertion, other than the argument that there is no evidence. Which is the same as asking you to cite the evidence you claim to have. There’s no argument to prove the absence of something. It’s your dubious assertion, you substantiate it. But if you can’t? Well, in that case try a bit of huff and puff and throw in some abuse for good measure.
If you make a baseless assertion, then spend all day arguing and abusing as to why you won’t provide the evidence, despite having it, well….. you just look like a bullshitter. Plan and simple.
Anyway, I thought you wanted to make the point about NZer’s being apathetic. My argument is that we can’t be completely apathetic otherwise you’d be running the show, rather than anonymously ranting and making baseless assertions on OPBs.
I find that abuse is frequently used to cover a weak or non-existent argument. What do you think?
“I find that abuse is frequently used to cover a weak or non-existent argument. What do you think?”
I find that it is in your case that cover is more likely to be infantile questions and weak and off topic side issues. Witless attempts to be funny and other unimportant trivia. All underpinned by a narcissistic obsession with attention. Like an incessantly squealing child tugging at its mother’s dress.
If you merely say you do not believe my assertions, then fine. Don’t believe them. If you say they are wrong, then prove them wrong. Otherwise go away.
It would be inappropriate to malign or even question the loyalty of the hard-working Muslim men and women wearing the uniforms of the United States. But it would be equally irresponsible to ignore the amassing evidence that subversive and combustible elements with radical Islamic persuasion have infiltrated our military, often putting our personnel at bigger risk in their own bases than from their enemies on the battlefield.
As I have stated before; my personal belief is that while it is easy to identify so called ‘radical’ Muslims, the fact that they may be regarded as ‘moderates’ right up to the time they reveal their true intentions highlights the greater problem behind ALL Islamic belief and aims: Global Islamic hegemony and dominance.
On this basis ‘moderates’ are nothing more than sleeper ‘radicals’ awaiting their opportunity to further the ultimate aims of Islam.
The genesis of radical Islamic thinking within the military was in the 1990-91 Gulf War, when nearly half a million soldiers and marines were deployed in Saudi Arabia to liberate Kuwait and defend the oil kingdom from Saddam Hussein’s aggression. While the Saudis were adamantly opposed to any expression of religious practice by their guests, including a ban on Christmas carols, bible classes and Christian and Jewish prayers, they embarked on a well-orchestrated and generously funded effort sponsored by the Saudi government to convert as many American military members as possible to Islam.
I think the above highlights the fact that this is both an ideological and a spiritual battle for the hearts, minds, and souls of men. That without the spiritual protection from a Judeo-Christian perspective and belief system there is little protection against the preaching of Islam; and the resultant converting of some to that ideology. This results in, essentially, planting the seeds of our own destruction in our very midst.
Of course, our increasingly secular western societies are totally ignorant of this spiritual attack to the very foundation of what western democracy is founded upon – Judeo-Christian values, and the God behind those values.
Wilfully missing the point makes you look silly, RedBaiter. There is no counter-argument to a baseless assertion, other than the argument that there is no evidence.
So, where’s the evidence to support your assertion?
If you don’t have it, you’re a bullshitter. Plan and simple. And by carrying on this charade you look like a deluded bullshitter. One who believes his own bullshit.
Kris, thanks again for your reply the other day. I got rather busy and didn’t get a chance to reply to your fulsome response.
Anyway the moment has past but I appreciate your reply. Also there seemed to a bit of anti-religion-discussion sentiment after that so we might have got in trouble. Perhaps RedBaiter would have told me to piss off or something.
You can be a recurit from 18 a cadet in some cases from 16, but you cannot serve in a combat deployment untill 20 unless you have your parents permission.
The following link is perhaps not the thing to look at on a nice Saturday afternoon here in NZ, but it’s certainly worth keeping in mind when buying Chinese-made stuff or fretting about AGW.
While all developing countries seem to have to go through this stage (think 1830′s England), you would think that with 21st century technology it would be nowhere near as bad. Perhaps the only difference will be that the Chinese move through this stage faster than did previous developing nations.
Of course it could also be that and England in the 19th century, even with the supposed societal control of ‘robber barons’, was able to deal with this more effectively as a capitalist democracy than a one-party, state-capitalist nation in the 21st century?
“Wilfully missing the point makes you look silly, RedBaiter.”
Why do you think I care what I look like to a dumbfuck like you? Why do you persist with these subjective assertions? What good do they do your case?
Those are rhetorical questions, so I’ll tell you the answers. No good, and all they do is prove you’re unable to come up with any objective reasoning.
“There is no counter-argument to a baseless assertion,”
You have maintained the assertions are baseless, but have offered no evidence to support this, such as examples of left wing bloggers providing unqualified expressions of support for the free exchange of ideas and the straight forward dialogue that characterizes Kiwiblog.
Without this supporting material, your assertion that my assertions are baseless is itself a baseless assertion.
You can see on the Garret Death Penalty thread that I countered Inky The Reds idiotic argument with references and reason. That was because at least he had the balls (if not the brains) to try and present a POV and back it up with argument.
So far all I’ve read from you is incessant whining because I refuse to participate in your jack booted interrogations.
Hey Ross and Murray! sorry to rain on your parade but if shit hits the fan there will be conscription for all, but don’t let that get in the way of a good flame war.
RedBaiter, why do you persist with these increasingly convoluted, disingenuous and abusive replies, when you could simply produce the evidence you claim to have, and thus show that your assertion is not baseless?
Anyway, I’ll try to explain this one last time: It is not possible to prove that an assertion is baseless. Just like I can’t prove that Kris’s God does not exist. However, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. If you make an assertion which you can’t substantiate, yet you repeatedly say you can, but won’t, then you’re a bullshitter. Plain and simple.
So, where’s the evidence to show that you’re not a bullshitter?
Kris, thanks again for your reply the other day. I got rather busy and didn’t get a chance to reply to your fulsome response.
Anyway the moment has past …
Thought you must have – I checked for a couple of days after that in GD.
Thank the Lord for Firefox having word search facility, especially when GD tops over 100 comments.
Also, I’m always happy to respond to others questions, to justify my beliefs, when I feel they’re genuine.
If you wanted to pick it up again from where we left off then I’m more than happy to – your call.
Back to the Herald Editorial. I can not believe such a piece of relativistic yellow bellied excuse making has oozed forth from our dominant daily. Racism apparently does not mean what it says under that word in your Oxford dictionary but is dependent on who is being racist – if they are from a minority it is not ‘what racism really is’. Two massive fucking objections to this. First is not racism a moral failing and therefore not just reliant on social context? Hell, you could justify all sorts of evil to individuals based on their place in society – this is moral relativism and leads to Stalin’s Russia, Pol Pot’s Cambodia etc. Secondly even if the morality of racism does have a social dimension connected with power relationships this is a complex thing and not just ‘ok if you’re from a minority in the country’. Im a primary school teacher and this week I had a situation where a Maori kid called another kid a ‘little white bitch’. This kid was in no way in a minority (plenty of maori kids in class) and i came down on him as hard as i would on a ‘white’ kid if they had called him ‘nigger’. In this situation no one had the ‘power’.
“RedBaiter, why do you persist with these increasingly convoluted, disingenuous and abusive replies, when you could simply produce the evidence you claim to have, and thus show that your assertion is not baseless?”
Why do you persist in asking the same question over and over again when I’ve answered it so many times already? I’ll tell you the answer to that rhetorical question too.
Because you’re an insane narcissistic lamer who can’t think of any other way to get the attention that he is obsessed with.
That’s OK. Can’t see how you reconcile that tho with your whining about abuse a few posts earlier.
I suppose the difference is I didn’t call you a bullshitter until there were 30+ posts from you to demonstrate that this is true. You OTOH are rather more unstinting with your abuse.
Why do you persist in asking the same question over and over again when I’ve answered ti so many times already?
Dear oh dear. You haven’t answered it, RedBaiter. Remember, that’s what the whole conversation has been about. I’ll ask again though:
Where’s the evidence you claim to have to support your assertion that “All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.”?
Fair enough up to a point.
Usually with Billy I give him the benefit of the doubt for about three comments. After that he usually moves into more stupid than usual territory and so I drop it as a bad cause.
But I will defend my faith (especially) when it is attacked, and allow the other person (eg Billy) to hang themselves by their increasingly idiotic assertions. Of course I’m happy to enter into genuine debate and discussion.
This is the GW WMD approach, aka the “intelligent” design approach – demand something that is unprovable be proved, otherwise a victory is claimed.
The boomerang boy is back:
“the arrogant and ignorant nature of your posts”
“Your technique is always to avoid the main issue-”
“Hence six posts from you and not one of them deals with the claim”
“focus on some peripheal matter of no real import to the thrust.”
“you obsessive lamer.”
“Witless attempts to be funny and other unimportant trivia.”
“All underpinned by a narcissistic obsession with attention. ”
“Without this supporting material”
“So far all I’ve read from you is incessant whining ”
“Because you’re an insane narcissistic lamer who can’t think of any other way to get the attention that he is obsessed with. ”
“Another useful insight into the delusional mind”
“Dear oh dear. You haven’t answered it, RedBaiter.”
Yes I have. If all you have are assertions like this, assertions you have made around fifty times, why the need to continue to make them? I’ll tell you. You’re an insane obsessive.
As for your claims as to what is true and what isn’t, its another behavioral process common to Progressives where they not only come here with dissent, but set themselves up as judge and jury as well, and they do this without the incongruity of such behaviour ever striking them as deranged nonsense it actually is.
they not only come here with dissent, but set themselves up as judge and jury as well, and they do this without the incongruity of such behaviour ever striking them as deranged nonsense it actually is.
You are really here as a deliberate piss take, aren’t you Red.
“no evidence that anyone is trying to shut this blog down”
Another baseless assertion. The evidence is profuse.
Pity you suffer the usual blinkered reading abilities of Progressives, or you would have seen this covered some posts ago, when I requested your comrade to provide instances of left wing blogs providing “unqualified expressions of support for the free exchange of ideas and the straight forward dialogue that characterizes Kiwiblog”.
Never mind, I don’t mind helping the retarded left on the odd occasions. Its charitable you see.
The national government is a bunch of knee jerk twits. Lets consider the following so we can wonder how changing from Labour to National has made no positive difference:
* Banning the most effective cold and flu pills
* Not removing the stupid stupid stupid law that is being brought in regarding child care people now need a 2 year diploma to look after children (what a bunch of national wankers)
* Now looking at raising the minimum driving age (no matter how high they raise it, there are going to be learner drivers, therefore the younger population are going to be over-represented in car crashes)
* Stopping the complete reduction on tarriffs (at least labour probably wasn’t going to do this)
* Borrowing $250 million a week whilst still keeping middle class welfare
* Not removing the maori seats (and lets be real, under spineless john key this will never happen)
* Ignoring the smacking referendum
* Pretending to get tougher on crime when in reality any changes they propose are going to be a variation of what we already have
* Removing the defense of provocation without coming up with an alternative
* NOT disbanding any unnecessary commission/board/tribunal that we currently have (eg, geographic board that wants to change the name of an NZ city despite the members of that city not wanting it changed, a childrens commission that is completely out of touch with NZ’ers, a biased waitangi tribunal that is stacked with maori activists etc)
These are just a few, but after reading how they are now looking at rising the minimum driving age, they really are showing that they are a bunch of conservative pratts with absolutely no principals. Especially when you consider the change in direction that the party has shown over the last 4 years, how can you trust anyone in that party to stand up for what they believe in.
Back to the Herald Editorial. I can not believe such a piece of relativistic yellow bellied excuse making has oozed forth from our dominant daily. Racism apparently does not mean what it says under that word in your Oxford dictionary but is dependent on who is being racist – if they are from a minority it is not ‘what racism really is’. Two massive fucking objections to this. First is not racism a moral failing and therefore not just reliant on social context? Hell, you could justify all sorts of evil to individuals based on their place in society – this is moral relativism and leads to Stalin’s Russia, Pol Pot’s Cambodia etc. …
Indeed.
The pc (read that; socialist societal engineers) brigade always tend to side in favour with the so called minority. Not because thay are overly concerned for that ‘minority’, but because they view the majority as being the primary hindrance to their end aims. By siding with the ‘minority’ interest groups they are able to oppress the majority of the population, and thereby bring them increasingly into line.
So whether the ‘minority’ consists of ethnic groups (eg Maori), religious groups (eg Islam), alternative lifestyle groups (eg homosexuals), etc., by siding with these ‘oppressed’ minorities the majority are kept on the back foot.
If we (the majority) don’t stand against this one sided racism, for example, then the socialist/progressives ideologues will roll over the top of us and our rights. We must stand up for free speech while we still have it; else it too will be gone.
If you find the evidence, please post it here so everyone can judge it. Not just me. Oh hang on, you’ve already got the evidence, but won’t share it because you don’t want to encourage people to question your baseless assertions. Anyway just so you don’t forgot, your baseless assertion was:
“All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.”
Conspiracy obsessives
spooked by “progressives”,
meaningless labels
with trumped up fables,
cry black and white
lamenting lost right.
Conservative angst?
Or trivial pranks?
Kris, how much do you think it’s just a case of the Muslims under the bed taking over from the reds under the bed?
If you look at post USSR Russia, and the make up of many of those states, you may notice that, in fact, the Muslims are in bed with (what was/is) the Reds.
And I don’t see a lot of difference between the ultimate aims of either Communism or Islam; they both call for the giving up of my freedoms and beliefs.
Good fuck off, and come back when you’ve got a POV rather than the self indulgent and infantile belief that other posters are obliged to dance to the tune of pissant no argument Progressives.
“they are a bunch of conservative pratts with absolutely no principals.”
Your post is pretty good generally, but in this you’re quite wrong. The Nats failure to stand for anything is because they are Progressives, not Conservatives.
True Conservatives have historically stood for small government low taxes and individual rights.
National do not even think in those terms. They are Progressives, and nothing will change, National or the political fortunes of this country, until true Conservatism returns as a social force.
Stop pushing Red’s buttons. I’m not saying you’re wrong/right, but just that I feel there are others here who would comment (about other topics) if you two stopped your little love-in. Please.
Kris, there’s nothing stopping other people posting. Happens all the time.
Anyway, how do you know that RedBaiter isn’t pushing my buttons? Why don’t you ask him to stop? Are you scared of him? He’s only a paper tiger; a wet paper tiger at that.
Kris- I understand your concerns. They’re quite fair and reasonable. But you see what these progressive cowards try to do. They wish to intimidate and destroy anyone who opposes their sick ideals.
They want to call you names and disparage you, and do anything but deal with the issues you raise. We must show them that these cowardly strategies, the ones they have used for decades, have run their course.
We must get them to understand we are resolute, and we will not be shamed into silence. We must treat them with the same contempt they treat us. Otherwise, they’ll just keep winning. Never back down to these scum.
He already responded to my previous request – which I assume meant ‘no’.
You are my only hope!
Sometimes it takes the bigger man to let an issue go.
My discussions with you have always been reasonable; hence my appeal to your reasonable nature.
Left wingers always unconsciously write in the plural pronoun. Its as if they need to imagine there is some huge crowd of wildly applauding supporters hanging off every word they say.
Or maybe it just means that schizophrenia is endemic among leftists. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Whatever, it seems to suggest a sort of innate rejection of the idea that they’re individuals, and a seeking out of the protection of the flock.
Pity you didn’t “leave it” to me as you said you would so many posts ago. Lies mean nothing to Progressives. They fall from their keyboard like rain from a thundercloud. Truth is a meaningless concept. The end justifies the means.
Kris: And I don’t see a lot of difference between the ultimate aims of either Communism or Islam; they both call for the giving up of my freedoms and beliefs.
Can you see that people in the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan could be thinking that the “Capitalists/Christians” are trying to take away their freedoms and beliefs?
I’m not suggesting on an equal level, but in fact due to being less educated and far less advanced in some areas they have less ability to reason and more justification for thinking they are being oppressed?
“Kris: And I don’t see a lot of difference between the ultimate aims of either Communism or Islam; they both call for the giving up of my freedoms and beliefs.”
Can you see that people in the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan could be thinking that the “other side” is trying to take away their freedoms and beliefs?
I’m not suggesting on an equal level, but in fact due to being less educated and far less advanced in some areas they have less ability to reason and more justification for thinking they are being oppressed?
It’s called being brainwashed, Pete.
The three countries you mentioned (Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan) are all primarily Islamic countries. Islam instills hate into its adherents from birth – especially against Christians and Jews. The ‘west’ is viewed as Christian, despite being essentially atheistic, from an Islamic stance. Even you, Pete, are regarded as Christian.
No matter how much you dress it up, the aims of Islam are clear. And we don’t factor into their end goals. We either willingly submit and convert, or we become slaves to, or are eliminated by, Islam.
Saturday, November 14, 2009
12 arguments against raising the driving age
(re-posted in light of today’s news.)
1/ Statistics for young drivers are improving:
In 1986 15 and 16 year-old drivers were involved in 32 fatal accidents and 884 serious crashes.
In 2006 15 and 16 year-old drivers were involved in 16 fatal accidents and 122 serious crashes.
In 1986 15-19 year-old drivers involved in fatal crashes numbered 167 and made up 16.9 % of all crashes.
In 2006 15-19 year-old drivers involved in fatal crashes numbered 64 and made up 11.7 % of all crashes.
2/ The law is being changed by people who enjoyed a privilege they are now seeking to remove, despite their generation’s performance having been demonstrably worse.
3/ Arguments that New Zealand is out of step with the rest of the world are irrelevant;
- We have been out of step for decades yet only now it has become a problem?
- If international standards are an important consideration then why aren’t we raising the age to 18, common in most European countries?
4/ Putting the driving age up does not send the right message to young people. If we want to encourage a culture of personal responsibility and independence this move is counter-productive.
5/ Often it is parents who dictate when their child will learn to drive. They are a better judge than the government.
6/ New Zealand’s road deaths per 100,000 in 2005 were 9.9, just above the OECD median of 9.5. Many OECD countries have a higher road toll rates and higher legal driving ages;
Age deaths per 100,000 in 2005
Poland 17 14.3
Belgium 18 10.4
Portugal 18 11.8
Spain 18 10.2
Czech Republic 17 12.6
Slovakia 18 11.1 (2004)
South Korea 18 10.2
Greece 17 15.0
Hungary 18 12.7
USA 16 14.7
7/ Across Australia the minimum driving ages are;
Minimum driving age:
New South Wales – 17 yrs 7.5
South Australia – 16 yrs 9.6
Victoria – 18 yrs 6.9
Queensland – 17 yrs 8.3
Northern Territory – 17 yrs 27.0
Tasmania – 17 yrs 10.5
Western Australia – 17 yrs 8.1
Obviously there are a range of ages all above 15 with a broad range of results
8/ If this move is successful, when will the calls to raise it higher begin?
9/ The Labour government liberalised rules pertaining to aged driver licensing by removing compulsory tests for 80+ drivers despite their over-representation in road crashes. It would be inconsistent to tighten rules relating to young drivers under the same premise.
10/ Responsible 15 and 16 year-olds will be penalised because of irresponsible 15 and 16 year-olds
11/ Irresponsible 15 and 16 year-olds already break the law by carrying passengers they are not licensed to carry or by travelling with drivers not licensed to carry them. If the driving age is raised they are likely to continue to ignore the law. The result will be more drivers on the road who have no knowledge of road rules or who have not experienced any driver training.
12/ Experience and driver education are vital. The first cannot be gained by delaying the starting age. A lot could be achieved with more of the second.
Saturday, November 14, 2009
‘The Worst Decision by a US President in History’
David Horowitz:
‘The Obama administration has taken a giant step in its march to throw in the towel in the war against radical Islam. On FoxNews this morning, Peter King said of the decision to try the soldiers of al-Qaeda — who by their own account have no country but their cause — as civilians
“may be the worst decision by a U.S. president in history.”
It certainly is. It sends a signal to terrorists everywhere to attack civilians.
The administration is justifying its decisions on the grounds that because the 9/11 attackers targeted civilians they should be tried as civilians. This makes no sense unless you are a Democrat who believes that the “holy war” that Islamic jihadists have formally declared on us is no different from the acts of isolated individuals who have decided to break the law. This is the approach to the war on terror that John Kerry championed in 2004. Now that Americans have had the poor judgment — the suicidally poor judgment — to make a leftist their president, this is the strategy our nation is set to pursue…’
David Horowitz:
The administration is justifying its decisions on the grounds that because the 9/11 attackers targeted civilians they should be tried as civilians.
Until the west wakes up and realises that 911 was an open declaration of war by Islam against the west, along with subsequent Islamist terrorist acts, then Islam will take this as a ‘head nod’ to escalate its war.
Islam can only be held in check by aggressive resistance to it, and by restricting/eliminating Islamic immigration into western nations.
Obama’s latest declaration will only further the cause of Islam. One really has to ask the question as to whether this is in fact his end goal; whether he is in fact a closet Islamist himself.
Perhaps this is relevant to the discussion then. Old stuff but!!
HURRAH
FOR THE LADY WHO WROTE THIS
LETTER, WE ALL THINK THE SAME BUT HAVE NO
GUTS TO PUT IN THE PRESS.
This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also
applies to the U.S. , U.K. , N.Z. And
Australia
THIS ONE PACKS A FIRM PUNCH
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her
local newspaper. This is one Ticked off lady..
‘Are we fighting a war on terror or aren’t we? Was it or was it not started
By Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 and
Have continually threatened to do so since?
Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
Downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the nation’s capitol and in a
Field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
Or crushing death that day, or didn’t they?
And I’m supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
By a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in A brutal insurgency.
I’ll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
Incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.
I’ll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring
About the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable by Beheading in Afghanistan .
I’ll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg’s head while Berg screamed through his
gurgling slashed throat..
I’ll care when the cowardly so-called
‘insurgents’ in Afghanistan come out
And fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion
by hiding in Mosques.
I’ll care when the mindless zealots who blows
themselves up in search of
Nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.
I’ll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
Speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
Ground or their families waiting a home to hear about them when something happens.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain
information, know this:
I don’t care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
Move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to
the bank ..
I don’t care.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran
and a prayer mat, and Fed ‘special’ food that is paid for by my tax
dollars, is complaining that His holy book is being’mishandled,’ you can absolutely believe in your Heart of hearts:
I don’t care.
And oh, by the way, I’ve noticed that sometimes it’s spelled ‘Koran’ and Other times ‘Quran.’
Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,
I don’t care!!
If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends
Sooner or later, it’ll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous Behaviour!
If you don’t agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
Choose the latter, then please don’t complain when more atrocities committed
By radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:
‘Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in The world. But, the Soldiers don’t have that
problem.’
One last thought for the day:
Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for
you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The Canadian Soldier.
3. The British Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian or New Zealand Soldier
One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom..
Re the NZ Herald editorial article on racism today (again, sorry)…
The Hooerald seems to distinguish “racism” from “racial discrimination”. If that is the case “racism” sits close to the definition in my Oxford Shorter English Dictionary:
“(Belief in, adherence to, or advocacy of) the theory that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, qualities, etc., specific to that race, esp. distinguishing it as inferior or superior to another race or races; prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism based on this.”
This suggests that to have racism you have to have at the core some theory about race. I’m not sure either Maori or Pakeha prejudice and aggressive language each against the other fits this definition of racism. Therefore Red Boris fills a phantom role.
The high rate of intermarriage and other social mingling suggests racism in NZ is far more limited in NZ than in many countries, and that it is doomed as more and more NZers have both European and Maori genes. Realistically this is the fate of all peoples, all races, and all nations. Mixing, blending, migrations mean that there are only a few static human gene pools in the world, such as the Basques in the historically isolated France-Spain mountainous border country, and the Japanese islands, perhaps rivalled in isolation historically only by Tibet.
Maori nationalism on the surface appears to be overwhelmingly about land ownership and other resources, sometimes to a ludicrous extent as in the successful claim to part of the radio-frequency spectrum.
At bottom, however, it seems to me it’s about Maori fear of loss of identity. Maori intermarriage generation after generation with a large majority must look threatening to some nationalist Maori academics. These academics also generally make their living from being spokespeople for Maori nationalism, and academics tend to make political noise to get resources for their departments. Maori academics at this stage are still chiefly in specialist Maori departments, where they teach language and culture. There aren’t yet a lot of Maori academics in the main Western disciplines of arts and sciences, apart from Ranginui Walker’s son, whose work on magnetic fields and bird migration is endlessly repeated on Labour Radio.
An even bigger threat to Maori identity than the genetic one is the current international cultural hurricane from North America. American, English-speaking popular culture is overwhelmingly dominant in the world of the young, and has been for close to a century. Maori culture survives only as a State-assisted, near-curiosity in the face of this, and it’s certainly not alone. Far, far bigger cultures are under the same pressure. If the white majority in NZ were Norwegians, or even French, with those languages, they would face the same cultural threat as the Maori minority.
The Hooerald makes an intricate sidestep in the editorial when it says: “To social policymakers, racism is inseparable from political power.” The editorial writer took this side trip so that the Hooerald’s argument does not exempt apartheid South Africa from being racist.
The Hooerald editorial pooh-poohs the notion that racial slurs are racism. If that is the case, white NZers or mixed-race NZers who identify as white can say anything nasty and vicious about Maori that they like without being racist. That position looks like unacceptable rubbish to me.
The Hooerald edtiorial’s tortuous arguments also, of course would justify the PC brigade’s accusation that Don Brash’s call for equal treatment for all under the law was racist. That PC accusation, now accepted by so many that Goebbels would have been proud of it, is nothing less than sophistry and casuistry.
In all, the Hooer-ald editorial seems to me a PC farago that attempts to justify the action or inaction of Boris de Bres. This isn’t surprising This newspaper has absentee Irish owners who want to quit it but can’t find a buyer. The lefty journalist mice are having a ball, while the household owner-cat is preoccupied with financial pressure in the Emerald Isle.
Oh dear, the racists and the Islamaphobes out in force again today. I see at least two posters say 9/11 was the declaration of war on the West by Islam. The old ” They started it!” canard. Trouble is, it’s just not true.
Globally, Islam is a religion of some 1.2 billion adherents, of many branches and sects. As in the Christian religion, there is no one uniting figurehead, although the Pope does his best to imitate one. It is true that the return of the caliphate is the dream of Islam, but that is never going to happen exactly for the reasons above – it is an incredibly diverse religion. And it is just a dream, as Christians dream of the Second Coming, Armageddon or whatever. I’m a bit vague on all that these days as it’s all just so offensive to me.
The Crusades of 1095 and onwards were the Barbarians of the West invading the civilised, Islamic world. Unlike Islamic warriors, Crusaders slaughtered Muslims, Jews and Pagans alike. In the modern era, the West has continued to oppress Muslims by imperial adventures, supporting the accession to power of brutal, corrupt dictators in the quest to steal the natural resources of the Islamic lands, culminating in outright war announced as the Fourth Crusade by George Bush.
The death toll inflicted on the world, within and without Christendom, numbers in the hundreds of millions. Islam just never came close to sheer scale of killings by the murderous Christians. And still the vile intent of Christendom is evident today. The Pope declaring Roman Catholicism as the only true religion and doing little to combat or even admit to priestly child abusers, denying contraception and abortion to its followers, denying permission for same sex couples to wed are all indicators of an ongoing intolerance that burst into violence again after 9/11.
The motives behind 9/11, an attack by a tiny band of fanatics, are well known and have been clearly enunciated by Bin Laden – just another violent thug but, as with fanatical Christians, all the more violent for wrapping up his penchant for violence in religious fervour – and was the widespread objection in the Muslim world to the presence of non-Muslim troops in their lands. They are entirely within their rights to demand the freedom from oppression that we demand for ourselves.
As Robert Fisk states, the first step towards building a new relationship with Muslim countries is to bring our troops home and stop propping up dictators. Without western support, most of these regimes will implode, allowing the people to determine how their countries will be run.
One last thing, Muslims are not permitted to go to war unless it is for demonstrably religious reason. Hence, ALL Muslim wars are Holy Wars. The Ottoman Sultans went to great lengths to dress up their imperial ventures in religious cloaking. We don’t bother. We just go forth and slaughter.
This was sent to me earlier in the day, I thought it was worth posting-
Dear Mr Harawira,
I write to you on behalf of all white Mother****ers, and kindly suggest that if you feel that the white man is such an enemy to you and has raped and pillaged the land and Maori for over 100 years then perhaps you will refrain from using or involving yourself with the following, all of which were provided by the wicked white man.
1. No longer will you need to travel from your electorate in an aircraft (a white man’s invention) go back to traveling via a Hikoi or riding a Polynesian kuri, waka or whatever means Maori traveled on prior to the white man coming here and raping a pillaging.
2. Do not send any of your foul mouthed abuse via email (this is a white man invention) as it is electricity that is needed to send such communications. Go back to communicating via Kapa Haka or smoke signals or whatever method you used prior to the white man coming here and raping and
pillaging
3. Next time you or your family are ill. Do not bother to go to the local health care provider and use the medicine that the white man brought here, or the surgical expertise, equipment or diagnosis that may save the life of one of your kids, wife or family members. Instead go back and consult with your local Iwi witch doctor at the Marae, scattering moa entrails, or however you used to do this, when the average life expectancy for Maori was 28, before white man coming here and raping a pillaging. Yes Mr Harawira at your age you would most likely be dead by now had the raping pillaging white man not arrived here to extend your despicable, irrelevant existence.
4. Next time one of you friends or family are about to start a new job, just check who the employer is, chances are it is raping pillaging white man who has worked hard to set up a small business, the same people that employ Maori in their thousands, yes Mr Harawira, the same people you call White Mother F***ers
5. Do not bother to use Radios, or TV?s, refrigerators, travel in motor cars, or listen to your IPOD any longer all of which are invented by the raping Pillaging White man, get rid of your sky dish. Never again travel overseas in a jet airliner, all white man inventions and certainly do not bother to visit iconic white landmarks such as those found in Paris of all places where you skived off work to take your wife. I take it the white man inventions like the Eiffel tower and, the fine French food and wine were to your acceptance Mr Harawira, how surprising indeed.
6. Oh and Mr Harawira, do not forget to mention when talking of Raping and Pillaging NZ about the 29 species or birds and other wild life that disappeared due to slaughter by the Maoris long before the raping pillaging white man arrived
Have a look across the Tasman at how much better Maori have prospered where they do not have all the benefits and this mentality of standing their expecting everybody else to support them. Look at how much healthier they are, how many of them own their own homes, and businesses, their average income level. Just like the Maori here they were born with two arms and two legs and as much opportunity as anybody else.
Role models and leaders like you who preach hatred and blame, instead of inspiration and aspiration are certain to ensure that Maori remain at the bottom of the heap for some time to come in this country, as they have done and as they are now.
Mr Harawira, no one forced your people to smoke themselves to death, no one prized their mouth open and poured alcohol down their throats to an abusive extent, no one made them eat fast foods at three times the rate of the rest of the population, no one told your kids to wag school and for the parents to turn a blind eye. No one dragged them into a gang; no one forced them to take drugs, no one said it was acceptable to close ranks and cover up domestic beatings and murders, all statistics that Maori are undoubtedly leading the field in. The reason these things happen is because of poor parenting, lack of personal responsibility and a belief that there is no hope and the white man is to blame due to bull**** propaganda from the likes of your selves. You carry on Mr Harawira the likes of you and Mr Willie Jackson have worked miracles so far haven’t you, just look at all the negative stats that your fine work and propaganda and stirring is creating.
And last but not least do not ever expect to get the respect of the majority Of the White population in this country when per head of population you get more spent on you, have more groups, committees, sub committees, trusts and organisation, all filtering money from the raping pillaging taxpaying white man to help your race move forward. Whilst you continue to be the country’s number one murderers, sex offenders, child abusers, unemployed, unhealthy people in the land, and we the white Mother****ers you despise have to keep picking up the repair bill
Next time you want to point the finger at the raping pillaging white man, please have a look where the other three fingers are pointing, you inferiority complexed, intellectually lacking, factually incorrect, ignorant, dumb Brown Mother****ker.
Yours sincerely
The Raping Pillaging and White Mother****er Organisation
Islam is more than a religion. It’s an evil, vile poltical system hellbent on world domination.
It belongs to the Middle Ages and should be exposed for the barbaric ideology it is.
Sounds as bad from either side to me, with all this talking up of a major holy war. Keep at it and you may get what you want, it won’t be pretty and you’ll be as culpable as anyone.
Luc Hansen quotes the crusading leftist scribbler Robert Fisk. Short of evidence, eh Luc?
IF the Crusaders were barbarians, you must surely agree that the Arab horde that swept across North Africa converting people at sword point were also barbarians. And so were the Muslim Turks who were selling Christian slaves well into the nineteenth century.
You will agree with the Muslim slaughter of communists and socialists in Iran and Indonesia, Luc, of course. And with the Grand Mufti’s support of the Nazis, and with the Bosnian Muslim SS unit, and with the terrorist attacks in New York and at the Munich Olympics. The Taleban bulldozing walls on homosexuals, whipping women, and barring girls from education no doubt are just distortions of Islam in your view, Luc.
All the West’s fault is it?
Luc, given how much women contribute in the West, how do you justify the Islamic world’s sidelining of women?
Racism can only be against a minority.
If anybody else says that I will vomit.
Fourteen months working in the Transvaal in 1975-6 tells me that the above phrase is repugnant.
Dislike Islamism, Jack5? Then I guess that makes you a RAAAAACIST for disagreeing with the enlightened postcolonial discourse Luc’s law lecturer drummed into him.
the first step towards building a new relationship with Muslim countries is to bring our troops home and stop propping up dictators. Without western support, most of these regimes will implode, allowing the people to determine how their countries will be run.
Globally, Islam is a religion of some 1.2 billion adherents, of many branches and sects. As in the Christian religion, there is no one uniting figurehead, …
Ah, try Mohammed on for size, Luc.
The Crusades of 1095 and onwards were the Barbarians of the West invading the civilised, Islamic world. Unlike Islamic warriors, Crusaders slaughtered Muslims, Jews and Pagans alike. …
And Luc, of course, forgets that the other group that were victims of the crusades were, wait for it … Bible Believing Christians.
The crusades were not representative of Christianity, and certainly not Christ, but rather Roman Catholicism; that unbiblical cult under the authority of the pope.
Revisionist historians, like Luc, like to blame ALL Christendom for the sins of Roman Catholicism. Most Biblical Christians were under threat of death if they didn’t embrace Catholic doctrine, such as infant baptism. Have a read of Fox’s Book of the Martyrs to get an idea of the persecution, torture, burning alive at the stake, etc., of Christians who refused to bow to the authority of the Roman Catholic church.
Redbaiter – because they are Progressives, not Conservatives.
You may be correct, but I always interpreted conservative as the opposite of liberal, which actually has been hijacked by the left for being “socially liberal”. A true liberal party would believe in limited government in all areas of life, whether it be socially or economically. Whereas I always thought a conservative party believes in changing nothing ie, status quo… unless they call “tinkering with the edges” as change. Or as wiki has put it… “a political attitude and philosophy, which advocates institutions and traditional practices, which have developed organically within a nation over a period of time”
Sounds as bad from either side to me, with all this talking up of a major holy war. Keep at it and you may get what you want, it won’t be pretty and you’ll be as culpable as anyone.
Ignoring the threat that is Islam, Pete, will only quicken our demise.
On the other hand, telling people the truth about Islam, which they won’t get from the MSM, at least gives them an opportunity to defend themselves against this threat. By eliminating Islamic terrorists, and adapting our immigration policy we will at least have a fighting chance. Doing nothing will likely result in us all speaking Arabic and living under sharia law. Not my idea of a future with promise.
Socialists pray for the collapse of western civilisation and universal sharia law. If only we could summon the FBI/CIA to investigate the links and associates of the Clark government.
After all, it would be the only possible way to “get even” for all that colonisation
Jack, none of your points in your post above are why we have gone to war against or in Muslim lands. Point to as many aspects of Muslim practice offensive to us as you like; for each they can respond in kind, and it is all totally irrelevant.
Robert Fisk has lived in Beirut for 30 odd years. He has lived in the same apartment all that time and many violent acts have been perpetrated so close to his home that he has only to run to the scene and be amongst the first to arrive. He’s dogged US and Israeli bombs and bullets. He’s been beaten by Afghans at the Pakistani border, just because he is a westerner. For you to denigrate him simply shows how deeply your ignorant prejudice is embedded in your being.
We don’t go to war to protect or enhance Muslims rights. We go to war to deny those rights. The Islamic empire was at one stage the most advanced in the world. The fact is that ever since 1095 we have denied them the opportunity to flourish in the modern world.
I don’t need to justify any Muslim practices, but what your post embodies is exactly why the Islamic world more and more believes they are now enduring the Fourth Crusade.
But the real reason we are at war with so many Muslim nations is nothing less than venal economic imperialism and the modern version of empire building. It’s no use complaining about the blowback.
Kris, indeed I forgot to mention other Christians too, but don’t indulge yourself in any fantasy that only Catholics went on the rampage.
I agree that we need to eliminate terrorists as the pop up, but the best thing to do is stop breeding them in the first place. Unfortunately, you just exhibit that tired old colonialist white supremacist attitude that has killed so many millions all over the globe.
We don’t need to ignore any threats, in fact I believe that strong defense policies, as opposed to our current free loading off the US and Australia, is our best insurance against future threats. Economic imperialism and widespread slaughter of innocents is highly detrimental to our long term security.
1. Dear Evil Mao worshipping commies,
I write to you on behalf of the free market, and kindly suggest that if you feel that the free market is such an enemy to you then perhaps you will refrain from using or involving yourself with the following, all of which were provided by the free market:
1. No longer will you need to travel from your electorate in an aircraft (a free market invention)
2. Do not send any of your foul mouthed abuse via email (this is a free market invention) as it is electricity that is needed to send such communications. Go back to communicating via smoke signals or whatever method you used prior to the free market
3. Next time you or your family are ill. Do not bother to go to the local health care provider and use the medicine that the free market brought here, or the surgical expertise, equipment or diagnosis that may save the life of one of your kids, wife or family members. Instead go back and consult with your local witch doctor or however you used to do this, when the average life expectancy was 28. Yes Comrades, at your age you would most likely be dead by now had the free market not arrived here to extend your despicable, irrelevant existence.
4. Next time one of you friends or family are about to start a new job, just check what sector it is, chances are it is in the private sector where people have worked hard to set up a small business, the same people that employ you commies in your thousands, yes Comrades, the same people you so passionately despise
5. Do not bother to use Radios, or TV?s, refrigerators, travel in motor cars, or listen to your IPOD any longer all of which are invented by the free market, get rid of your sky dish. Never again travel overseas in a jet airliner, all free market inventions.
Have a look across the world at how much better citizens of countries with free markets have prospered where they do not have all the benefits and this mentality of standing their expecting everybody else to support them. Look at how much healthier they are, how many of them own their own homes, and businesses, their average income level. Just like the majority of people they were born with two arms and two legs and as much opportunity as anybody else.
Role models and leaders like you who preach hatred and blame, instead of inspiration and aspiration are certain to ensure that we as a country, remain at the bottom of the heap
Comrades, no one forced your people to smoke themselves to death, no one prized their mouth open and poured alcohol down their throats to an abusive extent, no one made them eat fast foods at three times the rate of the rest of the population, no one told your kids to wag school and for the parents to turn a blind eye. No one dragged them into a gang; no one forced them to take drugs, no one said it was acceptable to close ranks and cover up domestic beatings and murders, all statistics that commie supporters are undoubtedly leading the field in. The reason these things happen is because of poor parenting, lack of personal responsibility and a belief that there is no hope and the free market is to blame due to bull**** propaganda from the likes of your selves.
And last but not least do not ever expect to get the respect of the majority Of the capitalism supporting population in this country when per head of population you get more spent on you, have more groups, committees, sub committees, trusts and organization, all filtering money from the free market to help your ilk move forward. Whilst you continue to be the country’s number one murderers, sex offenders, child abusers, unemployed, unhealthy people in the land, and we the Capatilists you despise have to keep picking up the repair bill
Next time you want to point the finger at the free market, please have a look where the other three fingers are pointing, you inferiority complexed, intellectually lacking, factually incorrect, ignorant, dumb commie.
Yours sincerely
The Free Market Organization
(I cosign the orignal letter and give full credit to its author)
I agree that we need to eliminate terrorists as the pop up, but the best thing to do is stop breeding them in the first place.
Islamic terrorists are a symptom of both Islam and the modelling of Muslims upon their founder, Mohammed.
As Long as Islam exists, so too will Islamic terrorists.
I’m not promoting genocide, Luc, but the only way to “stop breeding them” is to eliminate Islam.
Great stuff there Luccie. Give me Fiskies’ apartments exact coordinates and I’ll get the boys to put a PGM right on the roof. Might be a bit of collateral but what the fuck? Their only gooks eh!
Kris K, whilst i agree with your sentiment, i respectfully disagree that the solution is to eliminate islam
My reasoning is that it is simply impossible and unethical to do that, for unlike them we are civilised intellectuals, unfortunatley for us the solution is much more complex than simply eliminating the hazard
So complex that i have started to doubt that a solution exists
Like I said Kris, fanatical Christian white supremacist bullshit. The simple fact is that in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.
There is only one type of fear that has any merit; the fear of the Lord – that other type of fear is entirely over-rated. (Except for those that don’t know the Lord, of course)
Be nice if you kept the shit to one day a week Kris
Happily, it’s a seven day affair for me (sad for you, though).
mike tan 7:40 pm,
Kris K, whilst i agree with your sentiment, i respectfully disagree that the solution is to eliminate islam
I didn’t say it was a realistic solution, just stating a fact.
Luc Hansen 7:41 pm,
Like I said Kris, fanatical Christian white supremacist bullshit. The simple fact is that in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.
And if you mean Biblical Christianity (is there any other kind), Luc, then your above comment is absolute and utter crap.
Of course I know you include Roman Catholicism – but that isn’t Christianity!
“Like I said Kris, fanatical Christian white supremacist bullshit. The simple fact is that in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.”
Cracked it pal. We just don’t have the bottle to fuck them on a permanent basis.
Luc Hansen at 7.41…”in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.”
Sudanese Muslims enslaving and murdering black non-Muslim Sudanese; Saudi Arabia torturing non-Muslims for drinking alcohol; Indonesia massacring communists and waging genocide in West Irian; Muslim terrorists beheading non-Muslims in the Philippines, in Pakistan, and in Afghanistan; Muslim Iranians persecuting non-Muslims such as Baha’i; Muslim Chechens murdering Russian schoolchildren; British Muslims blowing up innocent civilians in buses and trains …they are a peaceful mob, aren’t they?
More important Luc, you always sidestep the biggest question: Muslim oppression of half the population — women. What would your great leftist heroines like Rosa Luxemburg have thought of that? Some Muslims even think that women don’t have souls. Muslims’ archaic treatment of women is disgusting.
Phool,
General Debate will start about 8am tomorrow 15.11.09 if DPF has set the delay.
Phool,
You are going to be commenting on 15.11.09? Hope so (not really)
Stack that bong up and put a reminder note on it that contains the correct date and day.
Quardle oodle wardle ardle wadle doodle
BTW Phool,
Got one of those Steak of Origin packs delivered this morning.
The whole sirloin is in a cage hanging in my garage, just a week should be fine
Jack, I am not sidestepping anything. I accept the truth of all the example you present. But as I said before, none of that is why we are at war with Muslim nations and oppress 100% of the ordinary bloke in many other Muslim nations by supporting the resident dictator.
What’s more, we would not go to war for any of what you present. Most resident dictators, by the way, except for the late Saddam Hussein, vigorously promote exactly the precepts of Islam we most dislike – the subjugation of women.
Using Iraq as an example, we destroyed the only secular state in the region, one that did promote womens rights, even though it was a brutal, totalitarian state into the bargain.
Do you really want me to list the crimes of Christian West? I’ve mentioned the Crusades. But there is lots more.
Spain’s expulsion of Muslims and Jews in 1492. The Inquisitions. The genocide of at least 55,000,000 native Americans, north and south. The very, very bloody European imperial adventures and civil wars, like the 100 year war, the thirty year war, the American War of Independence, the American Civil War, slavery (officially endorsed by the Churches), genocide in Africa, Australia, almost genocide in New Zealand, WWI, WWII, the gratuitous use of nuclear weapons on innocent civilians, the needless sanctions on Iraq responsible for the premature deaths of hundreds of thousands of already oppressed Iraqis, Afghan civilians killed at the rate of 4 times the resistance fighters, the ongoing slaughter in Gaza…and there’s more if you want.
And how about this, we imprison some 185 persons per 100,000 citizens, Iran 222, and the US 686. Just which is the repressive state?
Like I said, we are not at war with Muslim nations for any noble cause.
For example, Afghanistan was about the basest of motives, revenge. Instead of sending in elite special forces to deal with a tiny group of fanatics, we made the whole population enemies and slaughtered them from 35,000 feet. So brave. So noble. And allowed what should have been a narrowly focused mission to drift into interfering in internal politics with no good outcome possible. One thing is certain, the Taliban will be back, and every western soldier who dies there now dies in vain.
And ALL religion is past its use by date. Humans just need to harden up and be happy that, although we appear to be all alone in the untold number of universes, we are just lucky to be anywhere, we only live once, and we have a duty of care for future generations and allow those facts to inform our ethical choices, not imaginary and conceptually risible gods.
Kris K, you just invent stuff to suit your own weird and warped views, including your own definition of your religion. You are wasting your brainpower.
1. Dear Evil Mao worshipping commies,
1. No longer will you need to travel from your electorate in an aircraft (a free market invention)
George Cayley, the guy who basically invented the science of aeronautics and got this whole “fixed wing aircraft” thing started, was able to do all his experiments because he was an aristocrat and didn’t need to worry about money.
2. Do not send any of your foul mouthed abuse via email (this is a free market invention) as it is electricity that is needed to send such communications. Go back to communicating via smoke signals or whatever method you used prior to the free market
Email was invented as part of a US department of defence research network (i.e. fully government-funded).
3. Next time you or your family are ill. Do not bother to go to the local health care provider and use the medicine that the free market brought here, or the surgical expertise, equipment or diagnosis that may save the life of one of your kids, wife or family members. Instead go back and consult with your local witch doctor or however you used to do this, when the average life expectancy was 28. Yes Comrades, at your age you would most likely be dead by now had the free market not arrived here to extend your despicable, irrelevant existence.
The history of medicine is too vast to go into here, but I will note that modern hospitals owe a lot to Florence Nightingale, who reformed military hospitals (there’s that government control thing again), allowing public hospitals to copy the having-become-successful military model.
Furthermore, the free market in medicine is alive and well in the world of alternative therapies (such as acupuncture, aromatherapy, homeopathy, etc.). Fortunately, we have the government placing restrictions on what the practicioners of such medicines are allowed to claim.
5. Do not bother to use Radios, or TV?s, refrigerators, travel in motor cars, or listen to your IPOD any longer all of which are invented by the free market, get rid of your sky dish. Never again travel overseas in a jet airliner, all free market inventions.
Interestingly, the first commercial TV was in Germany in the early 1930s. We all know what else was going on then — which handily allows me to close this thread
Can someone let Tim_Oz know that I have posted the link the requested in GB Nov 12 on Orthodox Jews in New York celebrating the Gaza slaughter? Here it is again, anyway:
“The fact is that ever since 1095 we have denied them the opportunity to flourish in the modern world.”
Of Course! That is why the Ottoman Empire layed siege to Vienna in 1683, having already conquered much of eastern Europe.
And it also explains why these poor people, denied the opportunity to flourish, had previously made numerous attempts to conquer Constantinople, finally succeeding in 1453. Of course, being the respectful group that they are of other religions they then turned the Hagia Sophia, an Eastern Orthodox church building, into a mosque. Very respectful, that. They then set about building some magnificent buildings in the city, which DPF has shown in his travels recently. But, of course, that was a cry for help from a muslim people who had been denied the opportunity to develop by the Crusades.
Silly me, I thought it was imperialist aggression on the part of a totalitarian muslim empire. Obviously I was wrong.
But then, history starts in 1095, doesn’t it, Luc? So we can conveniently forget the muslim expansion BY FORCE in the two centuries after it was founded as first its founder and then his adherents aggressively waged war on the surrounding cities, various tribes, the Byzantine Empire, Persia, Jerusalem (which wasn’t a muslim city until it was taken by force, and then the muslims very nobly desecrated the holy site of another religion by building a mosque on it- seems pretty respectful to me and certainly doesn’t seem to the be part of a pattern) and then continued on into Egypt and North Africa, then INVADING Spain from that North African base. In fact, do I remember that you have decried the expulsion of the Moors from Spain at some point on Kiwiblog?
Oh no, those don’t count- um, why?
Luc, you are a bigot. Your one eyed view of history is both wrong and offensive. Quite frankly, I can handle the offensive part because I strongly support freedom of speech, but getting history wrong is not something I condone, especially when the knowlege is there for all to see.
“Orthodox Jews in New York celebrating the Gaza slaughter? Here it is again, anyway:”
Ah no – again let me correct you (I seem to be doing that a bit lately) – the dancing was “Am Israel Chai” – i.e. “The children of Israel are still living”. This is often sung when under attack – but clearly is not a glorification of war, which is abhorrent to Jews.
Some of the interviewees were dumbasses though. Still I guess we didn’t get to see what he edited out….
hmmm, yes I got a bit carried away there, and gave you a great opening, didn’t I? Oh well, that’s what happens when competing with all the extremists on here and a baby demanding attention. However, I take heart from the fact that you find it necessary to come in with such ferocity for one slip up, complete with the usual, obligatory personal abuse. Don’t worry, I’ll keep on keeping on if only because it’s such a great way to refine an argument.
Tim_Oz – sorry, but I’ll just take all that with a pinch of salt!
November 14th, 2009 at 8:09 am
*_Let me see if I understand all this…_* IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED
INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD
FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A
SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO
POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
IF YOU CROSS THE AUSTRALIAN OR EVEN THE NEW ZEALAND BOARDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET A JOB, A
DRIVERS LICENSE, PENSION CARD, WELFARE, CREDIT CARDS, SUBSIDIZED RENT
OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, FREE EDUCATION AND FREE HEALTH CARE.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:15 am
Aye, something is rotten in the state of Denmark. (NZ)
November 14th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Plan to raise age for driving
By EMILY WATT – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 14/11/2009
The Government is poised to raise the driving age and ban learners from driving powerful cars.
It wants to lift the driving age from 15 to either 16 or 17 and extend the compulsory duration of learner licences to a year.
Transport Minister Steven Joyce said yesterday that young drivers aged 15 to 24 were “seriously over-represented” in crash statistics and the road toll. Young people make up 16 per cent of licensed drivers but are responsible for 37% of accidents.
OK. as far as it goes. But what about the drinking age? and What about the voting age??
November 14th, 2009 at 8:27 am
I think driving licenses have to toughen up. And somehow then policing of learner license conditions – if they are breached, automatically lose their license.
Drinking – put it back up to 20 for takeaways, leave it at 18 for licensed premises.
Voting – 18 year olds have as much clue about this as a lot of older people ie not much.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:36 am
You can be conscripted at the age of 16 and go die for your Politicians, can’t drive a fast car though that is a big no no!
November 14th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Armed forces here are voluntary. From 18? Anyway, I don’t care about them driving a tank around Waiuru, hooning around the streets pissed is more of a worry.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:45 am
*_Let me see if I understand all this…_* If you copy from the web a long-winded and utterly predictable American rant about illegal immigration, then capitalise it and superficially change it to a NZ context, it is still boring, unfunny, unreadable and factually incorrect.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Pete, there are no tanks anymore.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I want to say I like good Maoris, that is the ones that don’t hate non-Maoris.
Jesus, the non-Maori haters must be like 2 or 3 percent?
Anyway, hi, all you great Maoris, hello from China, but hi to the one’s I have met in London and China and Australia, you rock.
Great sense of humour, open minded, tough, great drinkers,
Ya, I am drunk, but you know what I mean.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Well, trucks, armoured personnel carriers, jeeps, whatever they use now, I don’t think they are down to bicycle yet.
Not that it hasn’t been done before, the Japanese took Singapore with bicycles, and:
http://dixiebiker.blogspot.com/2009/07/1942-tour-de-france.html
November 14th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Conscription isnt voluntary. You can enlist at 16 and a half (think it is 17 now)
Damm those young folks and their new fangled automobiles /shakes fist!
November 14th, 2009 at 9:04 am
I agree Robert. In my experience, Hone Harawira is unrepresentative of Maori and is a throwback.
Why has no one in the media asked him about his dumb gang-land hand signs? They could ask: “Mr Harawira, why do you use these gang-land hang signs? Is this is a good example for a Maori MP to set, given the over-representation of Maori in criminal gangs and prison? Do you think this attitude helps Maori or could perhaps perpetuate a mindset of oppression and disadvantage?”
November 14th, 2009 at 9:07 am
More suggested (at this time) controls on freedom from the latest NZ quasi-communist govt.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Sorry Tinman, I was too harsh. We should drop driving licenses altogether, no legal drinking restrictions, and politicians free to govern without having to bother with elections. And my mother should be able to be a helicopter pilot in the navy.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:15 am
@viking2
Are you saying NZ should be more like Iran, Cuba and Saudi Arabia?
You should be proud NZ has drivers licences and an education system.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Will that be based on CC’s, number of cylinders, Kw rating or what? Will a special commission need to be establishing to monitor car models and classify ‘powerful’ or otherwise? Does high acceleration represents danger, and if so, should we monitor new-model electric cars while accelerate well from standing but have lower top speeds?
And finally, will those that having accidents in ‘powerful’ cars (ie the tiny tiny minority) still drive and crash them, while the vast majority have their mobility restricted?
My daughter would have to walk 15mins to catch a bus to work 7kms away rather than take our family car and would need to taxi home at 9:30pm.
More socialist control-freak nonsense from National.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I suspect Hone is doing a Saddam. He’s trying like hell to convince the world he has HUUUUUUUUGE electoral support and that his winning Te Tai Tokerau is a foregone conclusion.
He is all piss and wind. When push comes to shove, Hone’s electoral support will be as elusive as Saddam’s WMD. The poor black cock sucker (as distinct from a white mother fucker) might have do get out and do a decent day’s work.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:25 am
..watch it..he’ll get his mama onto ya…
November 14th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Getstaffed, despite all the calculation complications you mention, are you nonetheless classifying your car as “powerful”?
. Make and model.
I agree. It’s easy enough to get into trouble by being a dickhead in a car which couldn’t pull the skin off a lightly cooked rice pudding. Vauxhall Viva, anyone? I slid right through a country road intersection. Fortunately there was a clear area on the other side. I was late for a School C exam. I also put my parents Telstar over a bank by being a dickhead on a gravel road. Amazingly no damage to me or the car and dad pulled it out with a truck. It was on such a slope that when I opened the door the weight of it pulled me out.
Trying to deal with idiots by adding more restrictions and laws is both a waste of time and is an infringement and inconvenience on the majority of sensible people.
Rather than trying to catch idiots and dickheads with multiple laws, why not just have one law: “You shall not be an idiot or a dickhead on the road.” Then give the police discretion to ensure that anyone being an “idiot or dickhead” can be stopped and given demerits. Give the police the authority to make the judgements.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:52 am
malcolm, agreed. I had an accident at age 16 driving a sub 2-litre car. It has been my one and only accident and thankfully no one was injured. I was being a dumbass and with the benefit of hindsight I was probably not wise enough to be left in charge of a vehicle, or the lives of others. I was pretty accomplished driving a software compiler tho
.
I’d probably support raising the age at which learners can first drive, and extend the period in which they’re not permitted to carry passengers or drive after dark. As the judge points out in the story, the ‘streams’ processing ability of teens isn’t developed particularly well at 15. There’d need to be some science around determining if 17 or 18 was any better.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Banana Llana you are totally misinformed. Young people can join the NZDF at a minimum age of 17, but only if they have parental/guardian consent or are married. Even then, they can’t be deployed on active service until they are at least 18. Conscription in NZ was phased out a long long time ago, the NZDF is now a totally voluntary organisation.
(edit: ditto what malcolm said.)
November 14th, 2009 at 10:00 am
I think there is a lot of bullshit talked about the age at which people can drive. I got my driving license the day I turned fifteen. That was in 1961. I had been driving farm vehicles since the age of ten. I’ll bet the statistics for accidents involving 15 to 18 year olds do not bear out the proposition that the eligible age for driving should be increased.
Those who call for tougher controls on these younger drivers are closer to the mark. You see, I did not get my first car until I was twenty and my parents made damned sure I was not permitted to take liberties with their car. No booze, no passengers, no nonsense until I had my own vehicle. Just essential journeys.
It is those controls which have been lost.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Thanks for the clarification Mr Noisy.
In turn i would like to say that when i looked at joining i was told 16 1/2 if you are an independent, furthermore conscription is always on the cards regardless of current policy.
The point i am making is that laws seem to be made out of convenience rather than responsibility’s as a citizen, if driving is going to be restricted due to age then one should apply that rule to all things rather than what is convenient.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:27 am
You have to have some different age rules. Like not getting the pension until you’re 65.
And most are advisable – like not giving ten year olds unrestricted access to any sort of firearms and drugs. It is always about trying to get to right balance.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Same old BS
Does anybody really believe that raising the age at which you can obtain a drivers license will have a major impact on the Road toll?
They can flash statistics around showing younger drivers are involved in more accidents than older ones to their hearts content but given “younger drivers” means under 25 in this context and that not all – probably not even the majority in this day and age obtained their license at 15 it is meaningless. Furthermore some of these “younger drivers” will not even be licensed when they have their accident.
Its just more knee jerk stuff from petty small minded authoritarians which are just as likely to be Nat MPs as Labour – sadly
November 14th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Finally, how to use an apostrophe.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Anyone who was disgusted by the Close Up programme last night about the tetraplegic who has his attendant care cut back by ACC, which resulted in him being forced to ask strangers to empty his urine bag can express their disgust directly to Liz Cairns, who fronted Close Up for ACC at this email address:
liz.cairns@acc.co.nz
The link to the clip is here:
http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/acc-cuts-hurt-t…c-3143041/video
November 14th, 2009 at 10:41 am
well read this…what a sick fucked up country we are…
Double-murderer Graeme Burton received a free titanium artificial leg worth $10,000 from ACC to replace the right leg lost when he went on a lethal shooting rampage two years ago.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Am I reading this morning’s Herald editorial correctly? To, summarise, “racism can only be against a minority”.
What nonsense.
We need major remedial work on our MSM.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Why does he need more than one leg?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Burton, 38, was this week convicted of trying to kill Head Hunter gang member Dwayne Marsh in Paremoremo maximum-security prison.
He stabbed Marsh seven times – including three times in the heart – with a sharpened steel rod.
The strongly built Burton, who spends most of his time lifting gym weights, has sparked prison riots and threatened guards while inside.
He will now spend 23 hours a day in solitary confinement.
…the man deserves to die…
November 14th, 2009 at 10:55 am
..” hey whore ya dumb arse…its sat 14th..I see ure a day behind….those drugs no good bruvva”…
November 14th, 2009 at 10:57 am
“racism can only be against a minority”.
This is old news. I was told this by the HRC when I wrote to them about National Party pandering to Maori in 1998. Its only one of the many distorted and twisted viewpoints that have eased NZ’s slide into Progressivism.
It happens because NZers are 1) uninformed, 2) too cowed by PC to speak out when they do hear of such things, and 3) a bunch of politically apathetic easily manipulated losers anyway who deserve every damn thing that befalls them.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:01 am
All NZers?
Are you a NZer?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Still with the interrogations I see Herr Hauptmann.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:10 am
RedBaiter, I was just wondering if you were anonymously including yourself in the “1) uninformed, 2) too cowed by PC to speak out when they do hear of such things, and 3) a bunch of politically apathetic easily manipulated losers anyway who deserve every damn thing that befalls them.” group?
Anyway, how are you getting on finding evidence to support your assertion that: “All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.”?
Hauptmann? Very obscure. Distant relative?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Given the rate of advancement in technology it is only a matter of time before cars will be able to drive themselves. New car manufacturers are now installing black boxes that can record driving speeds, braking, etc and are used in court cases involving car accidents. On a recent science show, tv, many of these boxes can also be control by satellite and the engine killed if car is nicked. It was also stated that the time is coming when vehicles will be able to be driven by themselves on major roads and speed limits can be control by GPS. Another 10 to 15 years who will need a licence and the car will drive itself home from the pub, cool.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Hauptmann- Captain in the German Army.
Its a reference to the arrogant and ignorant nature of your posts, and your persistence with the idea that other posters whould volutarily submit to interrogation by lazy fuckwits.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Oh, I see. What was Hauptmann’s first name? It’s a bit obscure. Why not just liken me to Himmler, them everyone would get the point?
Anyway, you dodged the questions.
1] The evidence?
2] Are you a NZer and therefore are you one of the “…easily manipulated losers anyway who deserve every damn thing that befalls them.”?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:27 am
“Hauptmann- Captain in the German Army.”
Yeah, haven’t you read war comics, malcolm?
Donner und Blitzen!
Edit: it’s not a name it’s a rank, dummy. Like Obersturmbannfuhrer.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:29 am
“What was Hauptmann’s first name?”
You sure are dumb. Hauptmann means Captain.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:29 am
That’s what happens when you scurry to harden up your rhetoric with the edit timer ticking away
November 14th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Yes, I see Reid managed to get a line in there in an attempt to save himself from displaying the same ignorance.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:32 am
The problem with driving is lack of experience. The first 2-3 years will have a higher accident rate, and it doesn’t matter if you start at 15 or 25. At least at 15 you are more under a parents control.
If it was raised to 17 there are several problems. It will be harder to get a licenced driver to learn with, so does this mean less supervised hours. After a year of supervision the 18 year old will be able to drive on their own and will have the resourses to buy their own car. A 16 yr old is more likely to be using a borrowed car.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:33 am
You learn something every day. Thanks RedBaiter.
Were you in Wehrmacht? Are you in fact Josef Mengele? He didn’t like progressives either.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:36 am
“Yes, I see Reid managed to get a line in there in an attempt to save himself from displaying the same ignorance.”
Fucking D’oh, RB, I marked it as an edit as a response to malcom’s 11:26 which I didn’t read until I’d posted my comment. I thought that that common practice was well understood by everyone, especially experienced bloggers. What’s the matter, having a bad hair day?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:38 am
“Were you in Wehrmacht?:
You’re a bit late with that one Herr Hauptmann. After all, its you doing the interrogations.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Banana Llama … sorry to rain on your parade but New Zealand does not have conscription.
And as for serving o’seas at age 16 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Malcom, do you live in Whanganui?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Dr Mengele: Is it really an interrogation to ask for evidence to support a dodgy assertion which is presented as the main point of an argument?
And would it still be an interrogation if you provided the evidence you said you had, and thus proved me wrong?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:44 am
No, but I would like to. Wellington.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:45 am
I believe that not even during World War 2 did the NZ forces accept recruits under the age of eighteen. Of course, many lied about their age. Particularly young Maori from Ngati Porou but they were allowed to go by their families because they would be ‘looked after’ by older members of the whanau serving in the same battalion.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:47 am
” thus proved me wrong?”
You have not said anything worth proving wrong. Your technique is always to avoid the main issue- (in this case the apathy of NZers) and focus on some peripheal matter of no real import to the thrust. Hence six posts from you and not one of them deals with the claim that NZers are apathetic. So what’s to prove wrong?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:51 am
“having a bad hair day?”
Something you’ve not had to worry about for some years.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:57 am
You’re obfuscating again RedBaiter. You must stop doing that. My argument – as you know – was implicit in my repeated request for you to substantiate your baseless assertion. To translate, I was essentially saying:
“I do not accept you assertion that ‘All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.’ I see no evidence of this and challenge you to support your assertion with the evidence you claim to have. If you can’t, I reserve the right to call you a bullshitter who makes baseless and patently false statements to advance your mysterious cause”.
Anyway, we’ve had that fun. You enjoyed it. Admit it. Otherwise you wouldn’t have kept coming back for more, despite claiming to be far too busy.
OK, if NZers are apathetic and deserve everything they get, why aren’t you in government, leading your revolution from the front, rather than anonymously in the comments of OPBs (Other Peoples’ Blogs)?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:57 am
viking2
Good point.
I’ve never understood our rational as we accept 750 a year from UN but could do more to integrate them better over 2 yr period.
but then we let them use family repatriation and on avg I was told by someone in IA that they bring 4 others with them within 7 yrs.
MFAT does a really good job at facilitating getting the other family members here if need be, with one family they organised (smoke and dagger like) to get travel docs from hostile country so it was all legal and above board as parents had been tortured and were persona non grata. That event brought in 8 kids and granny to two refugees.
So I can’t understand why we don’t send them back on next ship or plane and ban them from ever coming here so we can do the best job we can with those we let in on UN quote.
Maybe it will change under National but Im won’t hold my breath.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
interesting post.
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/mesh/2009/11/how-the-saudis-radicalized-u-s-troops/
November 14th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
shenanigins at the UN
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/israel-wants-answers-from-solomon-islands-over-un-vote/story-e6frg6so-1225796722884
November 14th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
wonder if we could snow in summer in NZ as it’s not that hot here is it?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091110/lf_afp/austriaisraeltourismski_20091110171637/
November 14th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
“Something you’ve not had to worry about for some years.”
How would you know, RB? BTW, I don’t have that problem, myself. What’s the matter, are you bald? That might explain why you’re so uptight, something has to…
November 14th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
On a more lighthearted note. I began reading an article this morning on Obama the Heartthrob: The End of The Affair.
That piece expands on a comment from another article, which gets stuck into Obama’s lack of transparency, special interest group pandering, outright falsehoods and subtle ad hominem attacks on people who disagree with him, but then says:
The “Heartthrob” writer goes on to explore this strange paradox and concludes that Obama has the characteristics of an old fashioned con artist. The writer then links to a famous example from the UK – Ronnie Cornwell.
Ronnie Cornwell turns out to be none other than the father of John Le Carre. That, in turn, caused me to think of the character of Rick Pym, from Le Carre’s novel The Perfect Spy. Although he is a secondary character in the book to the prime actor – his son Magnus Pym, the so-named “perfect spy” (and traitor) – the father is the primary reason for Magnus’s betrayal. The reason being that only a society utterly corrupted by money and selfishness could have spawned such a rotter – and that vivid character is largely based on Le Carre’s own father!!!!
So, there you go, from Obama to Rick Pym in the space of a few hyperlinks. Learning in the age of the Web.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
“My argument – as you know – was implicit in my repeated request for you to substantiate your baseless assertion.”
It was not implicit. In fact in one exchange (IIRC) you even stated you were asking out of curiosity.
My assertion is in no way baseless. I stand by it, as I do all my assertions, and I will defend it if it is challenged by anyone with a counter argument. I repeat, I am not here to meekly accept interrogation by smug arrogant no argument whining liberals without a POV.
Why don’t you state your POV, support it with your own argument, and I assure you I will take the greatest pleasure in ripping it to pieces.
You won’t do that of course because you don’t have a) the balls or 2) the information.
Now fuck off you obsessive lamer.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
I’d just like to interrupt for a minute and say…
Go the All Whites.
As you were.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
I am with you on that one Leggie.
Go All Whites..
Oh, and for those of you who are going to the game (and to the team) it is a game of football so please….
NO FUCKING HAKA’s
November 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Even the baseless ones?
There is no counter-argument to a baseless assertion, other than the argument that there is no evidence. Which is the same as asking you to cite the evidence you claim to have. There’s no argument to prove the absence of something. It’s your dubious assertion, you substantiate it. But if you can’t? Well, in that case try a bit of huff and puff and throw in some abuse for good measure.
If you make a baseless assertion, then spend all day arguing and abusing as to why you won’t provide the evidence, despite having it, well….. you just look like a bullshitter. Plan and simple.
Anyway, I thought you wanted to make the point about NZer’s being apathetic. My argument is that we can’t be completely apathetic otherwise you’d be running the show, rather than anonymously ranting and making baseless assertions on OPBs.
I find that abuse is frequently used to cover a weak or non-existent argument. What do you think?
November 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
“I find that abuse is frequently used to cover a weak or non-existent argument. What do you think?”
I find that it is in your case that cover is more likely to be infantile questions and weak and off topic side issues. Witless attempts to be funny and other unimportant trivia. All underpinned by a narcissistic obsession with attention. Like an incessantly squealing child tugging at its mother’s dress.
If you merely say you do not believe my assertions, then fine. Don’t believe them. If you say they are wrong, then prove them wrong. Otherwise go away.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
“NO FUCKING HAKA’s”
Too late I think Bruv. The All Whites are as a big a cultural cringe as the All Blacks.
http://nominister.blogspot.com/2009/11/world-cup-soccer-new-zealand-v-bahrain.html
November 14th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
MikeNZ 12:03 pm,
Good stuff, Mike.
From the article:
As I have stated before; my personal belief is that while it is easy to identify so called ‘radical’ Muslims, the fact that they may be regarded as ‘moderates’ right up to the time they reveal their true intentions highlights the greater problem behind ALL Islamic belief and aims: Global Islamic hegemony and dominance.
On this basis ‘moderates’ are nothing more than sleeper ‘radicals’ awaiting their opportunity to further the ultimate aims of Islam.
I think the above highlights the fact that this is both an ideological and a spiritual battle for the hearts, minds, and souls of men. That without the spiritual protection from a Judeo-Christian perspective and belief system there is little protection against the preaching of Islam; and the resultant converting of some to that ideology. This results in, essentially, planting the seeds of our own destruction in our very midst.
Of course, our increasingly secular western societies are totally ignorant of this spiritual attack to the very foundation of what western democracy is founded upon – Judeo-Christian values, and the God behind those values.
We really are ‘lambs to the slaughter’.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Wilfully missing the point makes you look silly, RedBaiter. There is no counter-argument to a baseless assertion, other than the argument that there is no evidence.
So, where’s the evidence to support your assertion?
If you don’t have it, you’re a bullshitter. Plan and simple. And by carrying on this charade you look like a deluded bullshitter. One who believes his own bullshit.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Malcolm and Redbaiter – go get a room!
November 14th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Kris, thanks again for your reply the other day. I got rather busy and didn’t get a chance to reply to your fulsome response.
Anyway the moment has past but I appreciate your reply. Also there seemed to a bit of anti-religion-discussion sentiment after that so we might have got in trouble. Perhaps RedBaiter would have told me to piss off or something.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
The New Zealand military is voluntary.
You can be a recurit from 18 a cadet in some cases from 16, but you cannot serve in a combat deployment untill 20 unless you have your parents permission.
But don’t let any of that stop the hysteria.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
The following link is perhaps not the thing to look at on a nice Saturday afternoon here in NZ, but it’s certainly worth keeping in mind when buying Chinese-made stuff or fretting about AGW.
While all developing countries seem to have to go through this stage (think 1830′s England), you would think that with 21st century technology it would be nowhere near as bad. Perhaps the only difference will be that the Chinese move through this stage faster than did previous developing nations.
Of course it could also be that and England in the 19th century, even with the supposed societal control of ‘robber barons’, was able to deal with this more effectively as a capitalist democracy than a one-party, state-capitalist nation in the 21st century?
Photos of Chinese pollution
November 14th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
“Wilfully missing the point makes you look silly, RedBaiter.”
Why do you think I care what I look like to a dumbfuck like you? Why do you persist with these subjective assertions? What good do they do your case?
Those are rhetorical questions, so I’ll tell you the answers. No good, and all they do is prove you’re unable to come up with any objective reasoning.
“There is no counter-argument to a baseless assertion,”
You have maintained the assertions are baseless, but have offered no evidence to support this, such as examples of left wing bloggers providing unqualified expressions of support for the free exchange of ideas and the straight forward dialogue that characterizes Kiwiblog.
Without this supporting material, your assertion that my assertions are baseless is itself a baseless assertion.
You can see on the Garret Death Penalty thread that I countered Inky The Reds idiotic argument with references and reason. That was because at least he had the balls (if not the brains) to try and present a POV and back it up with argument.
So far all I’ve read from you is incessant whining because I refuse to participate in your jack booted interrogations.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Sorry RedBaiter, I meant to say “..you’re a bullshitter. Pla[i]n and simple”.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Hey Ross and Murray! sorry to rain on your parade but if shit hits the fan there will be conscription for all, but don’t let that get in the way of a good flame war.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
“Malcolm and Redbaiter – go get a room!”
Why don’t you and Billy get one???
November 14th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
“..you’re a bullshitter. Pla[i]n and simple”.
That’s OK. Can’t see how you reconcile that tho with your whining about abuse a few posts earlier.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
RedBaiter, why do you persist with these increasingly convoluted, disingenuous and abusive replies, when you could simply produce the evidence you claim to have, and thus show that your assertion is not baseless?
Anyway, I’ll try to explain this one last time: It is not possible to prove that an assertion is baseless. Just like I can’t prove that Kris’s God does not exist. However, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. If you make an assertion which you can’t substantiate, yet you repeatedly say you can, but won’t, then you’re a bullshitter. Plain and simple.
So, where’s the evidence to show that you’re not a bullshitter?
November 14th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Malcolm 1:26 pm,
Thought you must have – I checked for a couple of days after that in GD.
Thank the Lord for Firefox having word search facility, especially when GD tops over 100 comments.
Also, I’m always happy to respond to others questions, to justify my beliefs, when I feel they’re genuine.
If you wanted to pick it up again from where we left off then I’m more than happy to – your call.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Back to the Herald Editorial. I can not believe such a piece of relativistic yellow bellied excuse making has oozed forth from our dominant daily. Racism apparently does not mean what it says under that word in your Oxford dictionary but is dependent on who is being racist – if they are from a minority it is not ‘what racism really is’. Two massive fucking objections to this. First is not racism a moral failing and therefore not just reliant on social context? Hell, you could justify all sorts of evil to individuals based on their place in society – this is moral relativism and leads to Stalin’s Russia, Pol Pot’s Cambodia etc. Secondly even if the morality of racism does have a social dimension connected with power relationships this is a complex thing and not just ‘ok if you’re from a minority in the country’. Im a primary school teacher and this week I had a situation where a Maori kid called another kid a ‘little white bitch’. This kid was in no way in a minority (plenty of maori kids in class) and i came down on him as hard as i would on a ‘white’ kid if they had called him ‘nigger’. In this situation no one had the ‘power’.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
“RedBaiter, why do you persist with these increasingly convoluted, disingenuous and abusive replies, when you could simply produce the evidence you claim to have, and thus show that your assertion is not baseless?”
Why do you persist in asking the same question over and over again when I’ve answered it so many times already? I’ll tell you the answer to that rhetorical question too.
Because you’re an insane narcissistic lamer who can’t think of any other way to get the attention that he is obsessed with.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I suppose the difference is I didn’t call you a bullshitter until there were 30+ posts from you to demonstrate that this is true. You OTOH are rather more unstinting with your abuse.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
“You OTOH are rather more unstinting with your abuse.”
Oh, I get it. Abuse is OK as long as it isn’t “unstinting”.
Very good.
Another useful insight into the delusional mind of the Progressive.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Dear oh dear. You haven’t answered it, RedBaiter. Remember, that’s what the whole conversation has been about. I’ll ask again though:
Where’s the evidence you claim to have to support your assertion that “All over the blogosphere, the left are accelerating their efforts to shut down Kiwiblog.”?
November 14th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Redbaiter 1:35 pm,
Fair enough up to a point.
Usually with Billy I give him the benefit of the doubt for about three comments. After that he usually moves into more stupid than usual territory and so I drop it as a bad cause.
But I will defend my faith (especially) when it is attacked, and allow the other person (eg Billy) to hang themselves by their increasingly idiotic assertions. Of course I’m happy to enter into genuine debate and discussion.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
This is the GW WMD approach, aka the “intelligent” design approach – demand something that is unprovable be proved, otherwise a victory is claimed.
The boomerang boy is back:
“the arrogant and ignorant nature of your posts”
“Your technique is always to avoid the main issue-”
“Hence six posts from you and not one of them deals with the claim”
“focus on some peripheal matter of no real import to the thrust.”
“you obsessive lamer.”
“Witless attempts to be funny and other unimportant trivia.”
“All underpinned by a narcissistic obsession with attention. ”
“Without this supporting material”
“So far all I’ve read from you is incessant whining ”
“Because you’re an insane narcissistic lamer who can’t think of any other way to get the attention that he is obsessed with. ”
“Another useful insight into the delusional mind”
How many posts of avoidance?
November 14th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
You’re doing that missing the point thing, again. Go back and re-read.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
“Dear oh dear. You haven’t answered it, RedBaiter.”
Yes I have. If all you have are assertions like this, assertions you have made around fifty times, why the need to continue to make them? I’ll tell you. You’re an insane obsessive.
As for your claims as to what is true and what isn’t, its another behavioral process common to Progressives where they not only come here with dissent, but set themselves up as judge and jury as well, and they do this without the incongruity of such behaviour ever striking them as deranged nonsense it actually is.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
“Go back and re-read.”
No thanks. Its hard enough to read your predictable infantile repetitive drivel the first time.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
All over the blogosphere – can’t be anything other than gross exaggeration
the left – a meaningless generalised label
accelerating their efforts – there is no evidence of any accelerating efforts, it is unmeasureable anyway
to shut down Kiwiblog – no evidence that anyone is trying to shut this blog down, Kiwiblog appears to continue to operate freely
November 14th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Oh Gawd, the cavalry has arrived. Listen to the bugles Mal, you’re saved at last.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Boomerang bullshit
You are really here as a deliberate piss take, aren’t you Red.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Jeez, Red. Now you’ve got two randy Jack Russell’s humping both legs !
November 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Kris, how much do you think it’s just a case of the Muslims under the bed taking over from the reds under the bed?
November 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
“no evidence that anyone is trying to shut this blog down”
Another baseless assertion. The evidence is profuse.
Pity you suffer the usual blinkered reading abilities of Progressives, or you would have seen this covered some posts ago, when I requested your comrade to provide instances of left wing blogs providing “unqualified expressions of support for the free exchange of ideas and the straight forward dialogue that characterizes Kiwiblog”.
Never mind, I don’t mind helping the retarded left on the odd occasions. Its charitable you see.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
The national government is a bunch of knee jerk twits. Lets consider the following so we can wonder how changing from Labour to National has made no positive difference:
* Banning the most effective cold and flu pills
* Not removing the stupid stupid stupid law that is being brought in regarding child care people now need a 2 year diploma to look after children (what a bunch of national wankers)
* Now looking at raising the minimum driving age (no matter how high they raise it, there are going to be learner drivers, therefore the younger population are going to be over-represented in car crashes)
* Stopping the complete reduction on tarriffs (at least labour probably wasn’t going to do this)
* Borrowing $250 million a week whilst still keeping middle class welfare
* Not removing the maori seats (and lets be real, under spineless john key this will never happen)
* Ignoring the smacking referendum
* Pretending to get tougher on crime when in reality any changes they propose are going to be a variation of what we already have
* Removing the defense of provocation without coming up with an alternative
* NOT disbanding any unnecessary commission/board/tribunal that we currently have (eg, geographic board that wants to change the name of an NZ city despite the members of that city not wanting it changed, a childrens commission that is completely out of touch with NZ’ers, a biased waitangi tribunal that is stacked with maori activists etc)
These are just a few, but after reading how they are now looking at rising the minimum driving age, they really are showing that they are a bunch of conservative pratts with absolutely no principals. Especially when you consider the change in direction that the party has shown over the last 4 years, how can you trust anyone in that party to stand up for what they believe in.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
John B 1:44 pm,
Indeed.
The pc (read that; socialist societal engineers) brigade always tend to side in favour with the so called minority. Not because thay are overly concerned for that ‘minority’, but because they view the majority as being the primary hindrance to their end aims. By siding with the ‘minority’ interest groups they are able to oppress the majority of the population, and thereby bring them increasingly into line.
So whether the ‘minority’ consists of ethnic groups (eg Maori), religious groups (eg Islam), alternative lifestyle groups (eg homosexuals), etc., by siding with these ‘oppressed’ minorities the majority are kept on the back foot.
If we (the majority) don’t stand against this one sided racism, for example, then the socialist/progressives ideologues will roll over the top of us and our rights. We must stand up for free speech while we still have it; else it too will be gone.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
RedBaiter, I’ll leave it with you.
If you find the evidence, please post it here so everyone can judge it. Not just me. Oh hang on, you’ve already got the evidence, but won’t share it because you don’t want to encourage people to question your baseless assertions. Anyway just so you don’t forgot, your baseless assertion was:
cheers
Malcolm
November 14th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
“Jeez, Red. Now you’ve got two randy Jack Russell’s humping on both legs !”
Heh heh.. yapping little critters ain’t they?
November 14th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Conspiracy obsessives
spooked by “progressives”,
meaningless labels
with trumped up fables,
cry black and white
lamenting lost right.
Conservative angst?
Or trivial pranks?
November 14th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Pete George 2:06 pm,
If you look at post USSR Russia, and the make up of many of those states, you may notice that, in fact, the Muslims are in bed with (what was/is) the Reds.
And I don’t see a lot of difference between the ultimate aims of either Communism or Islam; they both call for the giving up of my freedoms and beliefs.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
“RedBaiter, I’ll leave it with you.”
Good fuck off, and come back when you’ve got a POV rather than the self indulgent and infantile belief that other posters are obliged to dance to the tune of pissant no argument Progressives.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
OK, I’ll leave it with you.
Let us know how you’re getting on with the search.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
“they are a bunch of conservative pratts with absolutely no principals.”
Your post is pretty good generally, but in this you’re quite wrong. The Nats failure to stand for anything is because they are Progressives, not Conservatives.
True Conservatives have historically stood for small government low taxes and individual rights.
National do not even think in those terms. They are Progressives, and nothing will change, National or the political fortunes of this country, until true Conservatism returns as a social force.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
“Let us know how you’re getting on with the search.”
No search is necessary, and even if I was searching, I’m not reporting to you (plural) you arrogant schizoid fuckwit.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
OK, I’ll leave it with you.
Please let us know when you find the evidence to show that you’re not a delusional bullshitter.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I thought you had the evidence already? You’re not making sense, RedBaiter.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
“You’re not making sense, RedBaiter.”
You’re wasting everyone’s time and bandwidth.
You said you were going away. Obsession just too difficult to overcome ain’t it.
That’s narcissism for you.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
No, I said I would leave it with you.
Anyway, please let us know when you find evidence that you’re not a delusional bullshitter.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
You could probably see someone about that, RedBaiter. You needn’t suffer in silence.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
A complete loon, who clearly thinks discussion forums are enhanced by repeating the same post over and over and over again.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
“I said I would leave it with you. ”
Yes, obviously a lie.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Please do let us know when you find evidence that you’re not a delusional bullshitter.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
You’ve already said that what.. six or seven times?? I guess its all you’ve got.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
It’s the conclusion. Provide some evidence to support your assertion, or the only conclusion can be that you’re a delusional bullshitter.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Malcolm,
Stop pushing Red’s buttons. I’m not saying you’re wrong/right, but just that I feel there are others here who would comment (about other topics) if you two stopped your little love-in. Please.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Let us know how you get on.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
You’ve already said that six or seven times too, in spite of already having my response.
Moron. Weakling. Fool.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Kris, there’s nothing stopping other people posting. Happens all the time.
Anyway, how do you know that RedBaiter isn’t pushing my buttons? Why don’t you ask him to stop? Are you scared of him? He’s only a paper tiger; a wet paper tiger at that.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Kris- I understand your concerns. They’re quite fair and reasonable. But you see what these progressive cowards try to do. They wish to intimidate and destroy anyone who opposes their sick ideals.
They want to call you names and disparage you, and do anything but deal with the issues you raise. We must show them that these cowardly strategies, the ones they have used for decades, have run their course.
We must get them to understand we are resolute, and we will not be shamed into silence. We must treat them with the same contempt they treat us. Otherwise, they’ll just keep winning. Never back down to these scum.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
We’ve had plenty of response, but sadly no evidence that you’re not a delusional bullshitter. And yet you apparently have the evidence. Very strange.
Anyway, please do let us know how you get on with the search.
We’d better leave it at that as Kris has some important news on the Muslims.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Malcolm,
He already responded to my previous request – which I assume meant ‘no’.
You are my only hope!
Sometimes it takes the bigger man to let an issue go.
My discussions with you have always been reasonable; hence my appeal to your reasonable nature.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
“We’ve had plenty”
As I said on No Minster yesterday-
Left wingers always unconsciously write in the plural pronoun. Its as if they need to imagine there is some huge crowd of wildly applauding supporters hanging off every word they say.
Or maybe it just means that schizophrenia is endemic among leftists. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Whatever, it seems to suggest a sort of innate rejection of the idea that they’re individuals, and a seeking out of the protection of the flock.
In sheep speak, baaa baaa…!!
November 14th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Kris, it’s all yours. Once RedBaiter launches his last volley of obfuscation and abuse.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Pity you didn’t “leave it” to me as you said you would so many posts ago. Lies mean nothing to Progressives. They fall from their keyboard like rain from a thundercloud. Truth is a meaningless concept. The end justifies the means.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
have you stopped taking yr meds..?..red..?
(c’mon..!..you know what will happen..
the voices will just keep getting louder and louder..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
What a train wreck of inane comments.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
wibble.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Can you see that people in the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan could be thinking that the “Capitalists/Christians” are trying to take away their freedoms and beliefs?
I’m not suggesting on an equal level, but in fact due to being less educated and far less advanced in some areas they have less ability to reason and more justification for thinking they are being oppressed?
November 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Here’s another one to mkae red’s day -
Palin the bullshitter.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_palin_book_fact_check
November 14th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I think the phool and Malcontent should be in a room!!
November 14th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
How are you getting on with my question to you yesterday Phil?
Put in the too hard basket is my guess as you don’t know.
So it follows if you don’t know, why spout the propoganda?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
‘ll chip in 20 bucks if they promise not to stream coverage
November 14th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Pete George 3:42 pm,
It’s called being brainwashed, Pete.
The three countries you mentioned (Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan) are all primarily Islamic countries. Islam instills hate into its adherents from birth – especially against Christians and Jews. The ‘west’ is viewed as Christian, despite being essentially atheistic, from an Islamic stance. Even you, Pete, are regarded as Christian.
No matter how much you dress it up, the aims of Islam are clear. And we don’t factor into their end goals. We either willingly submit and convert, or we become slaves to, or are eliminated by, Islam.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/
Saturday, November 14, 2009
12 arguments against raising the driving age
(re-posted in light of today’s news.)
1/ Statistics for young drivers are improving:
In 1986 15 and 16 year-old drivers were involved in 32 fatal accidents and 884 serious crashes.
In 2006 15 and 16 year-old drivers were involved in 16 fatal accidents and 122 serious crashes.
In 1986 15-19 year-old drivers involved in fatal crashes numbered 167 and made up 16.9 % of all crashes.
In 2006 15-19 year-old drivers involved in fatal crashes numbered 64 and made up 11.7 % of all crashes.
2/ The law is being changed by people who enjoyed a privilege they are now seeking to remove, despite their generation’s performance having been demonstrably worse.
3/ Arguments that New Zealand is out of step with the rest of the world are irrelevant;
- We have been out of step for decades yet only now it has become a problem?
- If international standards are an important consideration then why aren’t we raising the age to 18, common in most European countries?
4/ Putting the driving age up does not send the right message to young people. If we want to encourage a culture of personal responsibility and independence this move is counter-productive.
5/ Often it is parents who dictate when their child will learn to drive. They are a better judge than the government.
6/ New Zealand’s road deaths per 100,000 in 2005 were 9.9, just above the OECD median of 9.5. Many OECD countries have a higher road toll rates and higher legal driving ages;
Age deaths per 100,000 in 2005
Poland 17 14.3
Belgium 18 10.4
Portugal 18 11.8
Spain 18 10.2
Czech Republic 17 12.6
Slovakia 18 11.1 (2004)
South Korea 18 10.2
Greece 17 15.0
Hungary 18 12.7
USA 16 14.7
7/ Across Australia the minimum driving ages are;
Minimum driving age:
New South Wales – 17 yrs 7.5
South Australia – 16 yrs 9.6
Victoria – 18 yrs 6.9
Queensland – 17 yrs 8.3
Northern Territory – 17 yrs 27.0
Tasmania – 17 yrs 10.5
Western Australia – 17 yrs 8.1
Obviously there are a range of ages all above 15 with a broad range of results
8/ If this move is successful, when will the calls to raise it higher begin?
9/ The Labour government liberalised rules pertaining to aged driver licensing by removing compulsory tests for 80+ drivers despite their over-representation in road crashes. It would be inconsistent to tighten rules relating to young drivers under the same premise.
10/ Responsible 15 and 16 year-olds will be penalised because of irresponsible 15 and 16 year-olds
11/ Irresponsible 15 and 16 year-olds already break the law by carrying passengers they are not licensed to carry or by travelling with drivers not licensed to carry them. If the driving age is raised they are likely to continue to ignore the law. The result will be more drivers on the road who have no knowledge of road rules or who have not experienced any driver training.
12/ Experience and driver education are vital. The first cannot be gained by delaying the starting age. A lot could be achieved with more of the second.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2009/11/worst-decision-by-us-president-in.html
Saturday, November 14, 2009
‘The Worst Decision by a US President in History’
David Horowitz:
‘The Obama administration has taken a giant step in its march to throw in the towel in the war against radical Islam. On FoxNews this morning, Peter King said of the decision to try the soldiers of al-Qaeda — who by their own account have no country but their cause — as civilians
“may be the worst decision by a U.S. president in history.”
It certainly is. It sends a signal to terrorists everywhere to attack civilians.
The administration is justifying its decisions on the grounds that because the 9/11 attackers targeted civilians they should be tried as civilians. This makes no sense unless you are a Democrat who believes that the “holy war” that Islamic jihadists have formally declared on us is no different from the acts of isolated individuals who have decided to break the law. This is the approach to the war on terror that John Kerry championed in 2004. Now that Americans have had the poor judgment — the suicidally poor judgment — to make a leftist their president, this is the strategy our nation is set to pursue…’
Posted by KG at 3:24 PM
November 14th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Viking2 4:08 pm
Until the west wakes up and realises that 911 was an open declaration of war by Islam against the west, along with subsequent Islamist terrorist acts, then Islam will take this as a ‘head nod’ to escalate its war.
Islam can only be held in check by aggressive resistance to it, and by restricting/eliminating Islamic immigration into western nations.
Obama’s latest declaration will only further the cause of Islam. One really has to ask the question as to whether this is in fact his end goal; whether he is in fact a closet Islamist himself.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Perhaps this is relevant to the discussion then. Old stuff but!!
HURRAH
FOR THE LADY WHO WROTE THIS
LETTER, WE ALL THINK THE SAME BUT HAVE NO
GUTS TO PUT IN THE PRESS.
This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also
applies to the U.S. , U.K. , N.Z. And
Australia
THIS ONE PACKS A FIRM PUNCH
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her
local newspaper. This is one Ticked off lady..
‘Are we fighting a war on terror or aren’t we? Was it or was it not started
By Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 and
Have continually threatened to do so since?
Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
Downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the nation’s capitol and in a
Field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
Or crushing death that day, or didn’t they?
And I’m supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
By a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in A brutal insurgency.
I’ll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
Incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.
I’ll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring
About the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable by Beheading in Afghanistan .
I’ll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg’s head while Berg screamed through his
gurgling slashed throat..
I’ll care when the cowardly so-called
‘insurgents’ in Afghanistan come out
And fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion
by hiding in Mosques.
I’ll care when the mindless zealots who blows
themselves up in search of
Nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.
I’ll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
Speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
Ground or their families waiting a home to hear about them when something happens.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain
information, know this:
I don’t care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
Move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to
the bank ..
I don’t care.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran
and a prayer mat, and Fed ‘special’ food that is paid for by my tax
dollars, is complaining that His holy book is being’mishandled,’ you can absolutely believe in your Heart of hearts:
I don’t care.
And oh, by the way, I’ve noticed that sometimes it’s spelled ‘Koran’ and Other times ‘Quran.’
Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,
I don’t care!!
If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends
Sooner or later, it’ll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous Behaviour!
If you don’t agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
Choose the latter, then please don’t complain when more atrocities committed
By radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:
‘Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in The world. But, the Soldiers don’t have that
problem.’
One last thought for the day:
Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for
you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The Canadian Soldier.
3. The British Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian or New Zealand Soldier
One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom..
November 14th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Yes, its obvious really, Obama is an Islamic Fundamentalist sleeper agent.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-top-one-reason-religion-is-harmful/
November 14th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
pentwig..you are one of the morons i dutifully ignore..
please be quite clear on that..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Viking2 4:33 pm,
In contrast; Islam wants to take your life, your soul, and your freedom.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
“I think the phool and Malcontent should be in a room!!”
I beg to differ. I think the parasite and bludger should be de deported to Cuba immediately!
November 14th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Re the NZ Herald editorial article on racism today (again, sorry)…
The Hooerald seems to distinguish “racism” from “racial discrimination”. If that is the case “racism” sits close to the definition in my Oxford Shorter English Dictionary:
“(Belief in, adherence to, or advocacy of) the theory that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, qualities, etc., specific to that race, esp. distinguishing it as inferior or superior to another race or races; prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism based on this.”
This suggests that to have racism you have to have at the core some theory about race. I’m not sure either Maori or Pakeha prejudice and aggressive language each against the other fits this definition of racism. Therefore Red Boris fills a phantom role.
The high rate of intermarriage and other social mingling suggests racism in NZ is far more limited in NZ than in many countries, and that it is doomed as more and more NZers have both European and Maori genes. Realistically this is the fate of all peoples, all races, and all nations. Mixing, blending, migrations mean that there are only a few static human gene pools in the world, such as the Basques in the historically isolated France-Spain mountainous border country, and the Japanese islands, perhaps rivalled in isolation historically only by Tibet.
Maori nationalism on the surface appears to be overwhelmingly about land ownership and other resources, sometimes to a ludicrous extent as in the successful claim to part of the radio-frequency spectrum.
At bottom, however, it seems to me it’s about Maori fear of loss of identity. Maori intermarriage generation after generation with a large majority must look threatening to some nationalist Maori academics. These academics also generally make their living from being spokespeople for Maori nationalism, and academics tend to make political noise to get resources for their departments. Maori academics at this stage are still chiefly in specialist Maori departments, where they teach language and culture. There aren’t yet a lot of Maori academics in the main Western disciplines of arts and sciences, apart from Ranginui Walker’s son, whose work on magnetic fields and bird migration is endlessly repeated on Labour Radio.
An even bigger threat to Maori identity than the genetic one is the current international cultural hurricane from North America. American, English-speaking popular culture is overwhelmingly dominant in the world of the young, and has been for close to a century. Maori culture survives only as a State-assisted, near-curiosity in the face of this, and it’s certainly not alone. Far, far bigger cultures are under the same pressure. If the white majority in NZ were Norwegians, or even French, with those languages, they would face the same cultural threat as the Maori minority.
The Hooerald makes an intricate sidestep in the editorial when it says: “To social policymakers, racism is inseparable from political power.” The editorial writer took this side trip so that the Hooerald’s argument does not exempt apartheid South Africa from being racist.
The Hooerald editorial pooh-poohs the notion that racial slurs are racism. If that is the case, white NZers or mixed-race NZers who identify as white can say anything nasty and vicious about Maori that they like without being racist. That position looks like unacceptable rubbish to me.
The Hooerald edtiorial’s tortuous arguments also, of course would justify the PC brigade’s accusation that Don Brash’s call for equal treatment for all under the law was racist. That PC accusation, now accepted by so many that Goebbels would have been proud of it, is nothing less than sophistry and casuistry.
In all, the Hooer-ald editorial seems to me a PC farago that attempts to justify the action or inaction of Boris de Bres. This isn’t surprising This newspaper has absentee Irish owners who want to quit it but can’t find a buyer. The lefty journalist mice are having a ball, while the household owner-cat is preoccupied with financial pressure in the Emerald Isle.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Oh dear, the racists and the Islamaphobes out in force again today. I see at least two posters say 9/11 was the declaration of war on the West by Islam. The old ” They started it!” canard. Trouble is, it’s just not true.
Globally, Islam is a religion of some 1.2 billion adherents, of many branches and sects. As in the Christian religion, there is no one uniting figurehead, although the Pope does his best to imitate one. It is true that the return of the caliphate is the dream of Islam, but that is never going to happen exactly for the reasons above – it is an incredibly diverse religion. And it is just a dream, as Christians dream of the Second Coming, Armageddon or whatever. I’m a bit vague on all that these days as it’s all just so offensive to me.
The Crusades of 1095 and onwards were the Barbarians of the West invading the civilised, Islamic world. Unlike Islamic warriors, Crusaders slaughtered Muslims, Jews and Pagans alike. In the modern era, the West has continued to oppress Muslims by imperial adventures, supporting the accession to power of brutal, corrupt dictators in the quest to steal the natural resources of the Islamic lands, culminating in outright war announced as the Fourth Crusade by George Bush.
The death toll inflicted on the world, within and without Christendom, numbers in the hundreds of millions. Islam just never came close to sheer scale of killings by the murderous Christians. And still the vile intent of Christendom is evident today. The Pope declaring Roman Catholicism as the only true religion and doing little to combat or even admit to priestly child abusers, denying contraception and abortion to its followers, denying permission for same sex couples to wed are all indicators of an ongoing intolerance that burst into violence again after 9/11.
The motives behind 9/11, an attack by a tiny band of fanatics, are well known and have been clearly enunciated by Bin Laden – just another violent thug but, as with fanatical Christians, all the more violent for wrapping up his penchant for violence in religious fervour – and was the widespread objection in the Muslim world to the presence of non-Muslim troops in their lands. They are entirely within their rights to demand the freedom from oppression that we demand for ourselves.
As Robert Fisk states, the first step towards building a new relationship with Muslim countries is to bring our troops home and stop propping up dictators. Without western support, most of these regimes will implode, allowing the people to determine how their countries will be run.
One last thing, Muslims are not permitted to go to war unless it is for demonstrably religious reason. Hence, ALL Muslim wars are Holy Wars. The Ottoman Sultans went to great lengths to dress up their imperial ventures in religious cloaking. We don’t bother. We just go forth and slaughter.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
This was sent to me earlier in the day, I thought it was worth posting-
Dear Mr Harawira,
I write to you on behalf of all white Mother****ers, and kindly suggest that if you feel that the white man is such an enemy to you and has raped and pillaged the land and Maori for over 100 years then perhaps you will refrain from using or involving yourself with the following, all of which were provided by the wicked white man.
1. No longer will you need to travel from your electorate in an aircraft (a white man’s invention) go back to traveling via a Hikoi or riding a Polynesian kuri, waka or whatever means Maori traveled on prior to the white man coming here and raping a pillaging.
2. Do not send any of your foul mouthed abuse via email (this is a white man invention) as it is electricity that is needed to send such communications. Go back to communicating via Kapa Haka or smoke signals or whatever method you used prior to the white man coming here and raping and
pillaging
3. Next time you or your family are ill. Do not bother to go to the local health care provider and use the medicine that the white man brought here, or the surgical expertise, equipment or diagnosis that may save the life of one of your kids, wife or family members. Instead go back and consult with your local Iwi witch doctor at the Marae, scattering moa entrails, or however you used to do this, when the average life expectancy for Maori was 28, before white man coming here and raping a pillaging. Yes Mr Harawira at your age you would most likely be dead by now had the raping pillaging white man not arrived here to extend your despicable, irrelevant existence.
4. Next time one of you friends or family are about to start a new job, just check who the employer is, chances are it is raping pillaging white man who has worked hard to set up a small business, the same people that employ Maori in their thousands, yes Mr Harawira, the same people you call White Mother F***ers
5. Do not bother to use Radios, or TV?s, refrigerators, travel in motor cars, or listen to your IPOD any longer all of which are invented by the raping Pillaging White man, get rid of your sky dish. Never again travel overseas in a jet airliner, all white man inventions and certainly do not bother to visit iconic white landmarks such as those found in Paris of all places where you skived off work to take your wife. I take it the white man inventions like the Eiffel tower and, the fine French food and wine were to your acceptance Mr Harawira, how surprising indeed.
6. Oh and Mr Harawira, do not forget to mention when talking of Raping and Pillaging NZ about the 29 species or birds and other wild life that disappeared due to slaughter by the Maoris long before the raping pillaging white man arrived
Have a look across the Tasman at how much better Maori have prospered where they do not have all the benefits and this mentality of standing their expecting everybody else to support them. Look at how much healthier they are, how many of them own their own homes, and businesses, their average income level. Just like the Maori here they were born with two arms and two legs and as much opportunity as anybody else.
Role models and leaders like you who preach hatred and blame, instead of inspiration and aspiration are certain to ensure that Maori remain at the bottom of the heap for some time to come in this country, as they have done and as they are now.
Mr Harawira, no one forced your people to smoke themselves to death, no one prized their mouth open and poured alcohol down their throats to an abusive extent, no one made them eat fast foods at three times the rate of the rest of the population, no one told your kids to wag school and for the parents to turn a blind eye. No one dragged them into a gang; no one forced them to take drugs, no one said it was acceptable to close ranks and cover up domestic beatings and murders, all statistics that Maori are undoubtedly leading the field in. The reason these things happen is because of poor parenting, lack of personal responsibility and a belief that there is no hope and the white man is to blame due to bull**** propaganda from the likes of your selves. You carry on Mr Harawira the likes of you and Mr Willie Jackson have worked miracles so far haven’t you, just look at all the negative stats that your fine work and propaganda and stirring is creating.
And last but not least do not ever expect to get the respect of the majority Of the White population in this country when per head of population you get more spent on you, have more groups, committees, sub committees, trusts and organisation, all filtering money from the raping pillaging taxpaying white man to help your race move forward. Whilst you continue to be the country’s number one murderers, sex offenders, child abusers, unemployed, unhealthy people in the land, and we the white Mother****ers you despise have to keep picking up the repair bill
Next time you want to point the finger at the raping pillaging white man, please have a look where the other three fingers are pointing, you inferiority complexed, intellectually lacking, factually incorrect, ignorant, dumb Brown Mother****ker.
Yours sincerely
The Raping Pillaging and White Mother****er Organisation
November 14th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Islam is more than a religion. It’s an evil, vile poltical system hellbent on world domination.
It belongs to the Middle Ages and should be exposed for the barbaric ideology it is.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Maybe something like this will slow the irresponsible youth down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ZwbDj7sQM
November 14th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Sounds as bad from either side to me, with all this talking up of a major holy war. Keep at it and you may get what you want, it won’t be pretty and you’ll be as culpable as anyone.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Luc Hansen quotes the crusading leftist scribbler Robert Fisk. Short of evidence, eh Luc?
IF the Crusaders were barbarians, you must surely agree that the Arab horde that swept across North Africa converting people at sword point were also barbarians. And so were the Muslim Turks who were selling Christian slaves well into the nineteenth century.
You will agree with the Muslim slaughter of communists and socialists in Iran and Indonesia, Luc, of course. And with the Grand Mufti’s support of the Nazis, and with the Bosnian Muslim SS unit, and with the terrorist attacks in New York and at the Munich Olympics. The Taleban bulldozing walls on homosexuals, whipping women, and barring girls from education no doubt are just distortions of Islam in your view, Luc.
All the West’s fault is it?
Luc, given how much women contribute in the West, how do you justify the Islamic world’s sidelining of women?
November 14th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Racism can only be against a minority.
If anybody else says that I will vomit.
Fourteen months working in the Transvaal in 1975-6 tells me that the above phrase is repugnant.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Dislike Islamism, Jack5? Then I guess that makes you a RAAAAACIST for disagreeing with the enlightened postcolonial discourse Luc’s law lecturer drummed into him.
Ah, like Afghanistan in 1996.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Luc Hansen 5:56 pm,
Ah, try Mohammed on for size, Luc.
And Luc, of course, forgets that the other group that were victims of the crusades were, wait for it … Bible Believing Christians.
The crusades were not representative of Christianity, and certainly not Christ, but rather Roman Catholicism; that unbiblical cult under the authority of the pope.
Revisionist historians, like Luc, like to blame ALL Christendom for the sins of Roman Catholicism. Most Biblical Christians were under threat of death if they didn’t embrace Catholic doctrine, such as infant baptism. Have a read of Fox’s Book of the Martyrs to get an idea of the persecution, torture, burning alive at the stake, etc., of Christians who refused to bow to the authority of the Roman Catholic church.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Redbaiter – because they are Progressives, not Conservatives.
You may be correct, but I always interpreted conservative as the opposite of liberal, which actually has been hijacked by the left for being “socially liberal”. A true liberal party would believe in limited government in all areas of life, whether it be socially or economically. Whereas I always thought a conservative party believes in changing nothing ie, status quo… unless they call “tinkering with the edges” as change. Or as wiki has put it… “a political attitude and philosophy, which advocates institutions and traditional practices, which have developed organically within a nation over a period of time”
November 14th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Pete George 6:09 pm,
Ignoring the threat that is Islam, Pete, will only quicken our demise.
On the other hand, telling people the truth about Islam, which they won’t get from the MSM, at least gives them an opportunity to defend themselves against this threat. By eliminating Islamic terrorists, and adapting our immigration policy we will at least have a fighting chance. Doing nothing will likely result in us all speaking Arabic and living under sharia law. Not my idea of a future with promise.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Socialists pray for the collapse of western civilisation and universal sharia law. If only we could summon the FBI/CIA to investigate the links and associates of the Clark government.
After all, it would be the only possible way to “get even” for all that colonisation
November 14th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Jack, none of your points in your post above are why we have gone to war against or in Muslim lands. Point to as many aspects of Muslim practice offensive to us as you like; for each they can respond in kind, and it is all totally irrelevant.
Robert Fisk has lived in Beirut for 30 odd years. He has lived in the same apartment all that time and many violent acts have been perpetrated so close to his home that he has only to run to the scene and be amongst the first to arrive. He’s dogged US and Israeli bombs and bullets. He’s been beaten by Afghans at the Pakistani border, just because he is a westerner. For you to denigrate him simply shows how deeply your ignorant prejudice is embedded in your being.
We don’t go to war to protect or enhance Muslims rights. We go to war to deny those rights. The Islamic empire was at one stage the most advanced in the world. The fact is that ever since 1095 we have denied them the opportunity to flourish in the modern world.
I don’t need to justify any Muslim practices, but what your post embodies is exactly why the Islamic world more and more believes they are now enduring the Fourth Crusade.
But the real reason we are at war with so many Muslim nations is nothing less than venal economic imperialism and the modern version of empire building. It’s no use complaining about the blowback.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I only wish it was real, actual imperialism, Puke.
Third paragraph is drenched in guilt and falsehoods.
I feel sorry for your kid.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Kris, indeed I forgot to mention other Christians too, but don’t indulge yourself in any fantasy that only Catholics went on the rampage.
I agree that we need to eliminate terrorists as the pop up, but the best thing to do is stop breeding them in the first place. Unfortunately, you just exhibit that tired old colonialist white supremacist attitude that has killed so many millions all over the globe.
We don’t need to ignore any threats, in fact I believe that strong defense policies, as opposed to our current free loading off the US and Australia, is our best insurance against future threats. Economic imperialism and widespread slaughter of innocents is highly detrimental to our long term security.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Hurf, what you call guilt I call survival instinct. You lot are sentencing our descendants to never-ending conflict.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Anyone else noticed how Luc regularly ‘agrees with’ things that others have never said?
November 14th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
He agrees with phool and frogboy that Hairywiry’s racism was justified. They’re the only three on that side.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
1. Dear Evil Mao worshipping commies,
I write to you on behalf of the free market, and kindly suggest that if you feel that the free market is such an enemy to you then perhaps you will refrain from using or involving yourself with the following, all of which were provided by the free market:
1. No longer will you need to travel from your electorate in an aircraft (a free market invention)
2. Do not send any of your foul mouthed abuse via email (this is a free market invention) as it is electricity that is needed to send such communications. Go back to communicating via smoke signals or whatever method you used prior to the free market
3. Next time you or your family are ill. Do not bother to go to the local health care provider and use the medicine that the free market brought here, or the surgical expertise, equipment or diagnosis that may save the life of one of your kids, wife or family members. Instead go back and consult with your local witch doctor or however you used to do this, when the average life expectancy was 28. Yes Comrades, at your age you would most likely be dead by now had the free market not arrived here to extend your despicable, irrelevant existence.
4. Next time one of you friends or family are about to start a new job, just check what sector it is, chances are it is in the private sector where people have worked hard to set up a small business, the same people that employ you commies in your thousands, yes Comrades, the same people you so passionately despise
5. Do not bother to use Radios, or TV?s, refrigerators, travel in motor cars, or listen to your IPOD any longer all of which are invented by the free market, get rid of your sky dish. Never again travel overseas in a jet airliner, all free market inventions.
Have a look across the world at how much better citizens of countries with free markets have prospered where they do not have all the benefits and this mentality of standing their expecting everybody else to support them. Look at how much healthier they are, how many of them own their own homes, and businesses, their average income level. Just like the majority of people they were born with two arms and two legs and as much opportunity as anybody else.
Role models and leaders like you who preach hatred and blame, instead of inspiration and aspiration are certain to ensure that we as a country, remain at the bottom of the heap
Comrades, no one forced your people to smoke themselves to death, no one prized their mouth open and poured alcohol down their throats to an abusive extent, no one made them eat fast foods at three times the rate of the rest of the population, no one told your kids to wag school and for the parents to turn a blind eye. No one dragged them into a gang; no one forced them to take drugs, no one said it was acceptable to close ranks and cover up domestic beatings and murders, all statistics that commie supporters are undoubtedly leading the field in. The reason these things happen is because of poor parenting, lack of personal responsibility and a belief that there is no hope and the free market is to blame due to bull**** propaganda from the likes of your selves.
And last but not least do not ever expect to get the respect of the majority Of the capitalism supporting population in this country when per head of population you get more spent on you, have more groups, committees, sub committees, trusts and organization, all filtering money from the free market to help your ilk move forward. Whilst you continue to be the country’s number one murderers, sex offenders, child abusers, unemployed, unhealthy people in the land, and we the Capatilists you despise have to keep picking up the repair bill
Next time you want to point the finger at the free market, please have a look where the other three fingers are pointing, you inferiority complexed, intellectually lacking, factually incorrect, ignorant, dumb commie.
Yours sincerely
The Free Market Organization
(I cosign the orignal letter and give full credit to its author)
November 14th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Shit I gotta check my URL.
I thought it was Kiwiblog, but seems to be sunday school bullshit
November 14th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Luc Hansen 7:18 pm,
Islamic terrorists are a symptom of both Islam and the modelling of Muslims upon their founder, Mohammed.
As Long as Islam exists, so too will Islamic terrorists.
I’m not promoting genocide, Luc, but the only way to “stop breeding them” is to eliminate Islam.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
he is so full of fear..that kkk…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Great stuff there Luccie. Give me Fiskies’ apartments exact coordinates and I’ll get the boys to put a PGM right on the roof. Might be a bit of collateral but what the fuck? Their only gooks eh!
November 14th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
No, Steve, that’s tommorow morning.
You’re more than welcome to come along – 10 am, Khandallah, …
November 14th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Be nice if you kept the shit to one day a week Kris
November 14th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Kris K, whilst i agree with your sentiment, i respectfully disagree that the solution is to eliminate islam
My reasoning is that it is simply impossible and unethical to do that, for unlike them we are civilised intellectuals, unfortunatley for us the solution is much more complex than simply eliminating the hazard
So complex that i have started to doubt that a solution exists
November 14th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Like I said Kris, fanatical Christian white supremacist bullshit. The simple fact is that in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Phool,
There is only one type of fear that has any merit; the fear of the Lord – that other type of fear is entirely over-rated. (Except for those that don’t know the Lord, of course)
November 14th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
“..I’m not promoting genocide, Luc, but the only way to “stop breeding them” is to eliminate Islam…”
do we have laws against promoting hate-crimes..?
if so..how can kkk not be breaking them..?
and thereby also leaving kiwiblog exposed legally..?
phil(whoar.co.z)
November 14th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
this thread is fucked
November 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
oh..!..kkk..
are you talking about the ‘fear’..
‘.. from belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces ..
.. and events and judgments that happen after we die..”
is that the one you are talking about..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Phool would be an authority on voices in his head, considering all the speedballs he’s done.
Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.
lolololololololol. Pukeland sounds like a lovely place.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
‘do we have laws against promoting hate-crimes..?’
No Phool otherwise Hone and his ugly Mum would be sharing a cell.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Steve 7:38 pm,
Happily, it’s a seven day affair for me (sad for you, though).
mike tan 7:40 pm,
I didn’t say it was a realistic solution, just stating a fact.
Luc Hansen 7:41 pm,
And if you mean Biblical Christianity (is there any other kind), Luc, then your above comment is absolute and utter crap.
Of course I know you include Roman Catholicism – but that isn’t Christianity!
November 14th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
After getting rid of the lunatic exchanges between Malcolm and Redbaiter earlier, we are now subjected to another form of lunacy in the form of Phool.
Is it a phool moon tonight?
November 14th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
“Like I said Kris, fanatical Christian white supremacist bullshit. The simple fact is that in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.”
Cracked it pal. We just don’t have the bottle to fuck them on a permanent basis.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
kkk..you are the fucken lunatic around here..
and a religous one..the worst kind..
(your litany of hate is no different to the muslim version of the same..)
will you ‘take’ care of the catholics..?
after you have ‘wiped out islam.’.?
then go to church..and pray..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
1 nil .. 45 to go
November 14th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Luc Hansen at 7.41…”in history, in overview, Islam has been less brutal than Christianity.”
Sudanese Muslims enslaving and murdering black non-Muslim Sudanese; Saudi Arabia torturing non-Muslims for drinking alcohol; Indonesia massacring communists and waging genocide in West Irian; Muslim terrorists beheading non-Muslims in the Philippines, in Pakistan, and in Afghanistan; Muslim Iranians persecuting non-Muslims such as Baha’i; Muslim Chechens murdering Russian schoolchildren; British Muslims blowing up innocent civilians in buses and trains …they are a peaceful mob, aren’t they?
More important Luc, you always sidestep the biggest question: Muslim oppression of half the population — women. What would your great leftist heroines like Rosa Luxemburg have thought of that? Some Muslims even think that women don’t have souls. Muslims’ archaic treatment of women is disgusting.
The Muslim religion is past it’s pray-by date.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Jack5—Yeh. The deniers just hate hearing the truth!
November 14th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Phool,
General Debate will start about 8am tomorrow 15.11.09 if DPF has set the delay.
Phool,
You are going to be commenting on 15.11.09? Hope so (not really)
Stack that bong up and put a reminder note on it that contains the correct date and day.
Quardle oodle wardle ardle wadle doodle
November 14th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
BTW Phool,
Got one of those Steak of Origin packs delivered this morning.
The whole sirloin is in a cage hanging in my garage, just a week should be fine
November 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
I love that the US Government subsidises lefty “artist” shit.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
1-0
I guess Allah wasn’t so akbar tonight.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Phool
Call me a moron or anything else I care not.
You are exposed as a idiot who trolls someone else’s blog with propoganda that you do not even understand.
That you have to troll blogs when you have your own blog site is absolutely pitiful.
Shows how much people respect your views when you attempt to whorelink to your own site to try and get ratings.
You should be pitied but that is far too good for you.
It is apparent that your brain is so drug addled that you do not feel shame.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Well done the soccer guys- First round ball game I’ve watched in over 15 years.
Still chuckling over the best banner I’ve seen in a while; “Will lose for oil”
November 14th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Great stuff All Whites. My word watching those last 10 minutes was torture.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Makes me proud to be a KIWI to be proud of the All Whites.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
South Africa here we come.
When was the last time the All Blacks had a crowd like that?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
@Viking2:
Actually, it was written by a Republican political speechwriter. But don’t let facts get in your way.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Jack, I am not sidestepping anything. I accept the truth of all the example you present. But as I said before, none of that is why we are at war with Muslim nations and oppress 100% of the ordinary bloke in many other Muslim nations by supporting the resident dictator.
What’s more, we would not go to war for any of what you present. Most resident dictators, by the way, except for the late Saddam Hussein, vigorously promote exactly the precepts of Islam we most dislike – the subjugation of women.
Using Iraq as an example, we destroyed the only secular state in the region, one that did promote womens rights, even though it was a brutal, totalitarian state into the bargain.
Do you really want me to list the crimes of Christian West? I’ve mentioned the Crusades. But there is lots more.
Spain’s expulsion of Muslims and Jews in 1492. The Inquisitions. The genocide of at least 55,000,000 native Americans, north and south. The very, very bloody European imperial adventures and civil wars, like the 100 year war, the thirty year war, the American War of Independence, the American Civil War, slavery (officially endorsed by the Churches), genocide in Africa, Australia, almost genocide in New Zealand, WWI, WWII, the gratuitous use of nuclear weapons on innocent civilians, the needless sanctions on Iraq responsible for the premature deaths of hundreds of thousands of already oppressed Iraqis, Afghan civilians killed at the rate of 4 times the resistance fighters, the ongoing slaughter in Gaza…and there’s more if you want.
And how about this, we imprison some 185 persons per 100,000 citizens, Iran 222, and the US 686. Just which is the repressive state?
Like I said, we are not at war with Muslim nations for any noble cause.
For example, Afghanistan was about the basest of motives, revenge. Instead of sending in elite special forces to deal with a tiny group of fanatics, we made the whole population enemies and slaughtered them from 35,000 feet. So brave. So noble. And allowed what should have been a narrowly focused mission to drift into interfering in internal politics with no good outcome possible. One thing is certain, the Taliban will be back, and every western soldier who dies there now dies in vain.
And ALL religion is past its use by date. Humans just need to harden up and be happy that, although we appear to be all alone in the untold number of universes, we are just lucky to be anywhere, we only live once, and we have a duty of care for future generations and allow those facts to inform our ethical choices, not imaginary and conceptually risible gods.
Kris K, you just invent stuff to suit your own weird and warped views, including your own definition of your religion. You are wasting your brainpower.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
this is very funny..
in 1970 this baseball pitcher..whilst whacked out on lsd..
played a major game..and scored a no-hitter..
(the opposition didn’t get a run..)
here he tells the tale of how it went down..
and some clever people have done an animation to go along with the story..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/a-famous-baseball-game-from-1970where-the-pitcher-was-whacked-on-lsd/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 14th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
I have just seen the banner ad at the top. March for Democracy-bullshit. More like March for the Tyranny of the White Racist Child Beaters.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
George Cayley, the guy who basically invented the science of aeronautics and got this whole “fixed wing aircraft” thing started, was able to do all his experiments because he was an aristocrat and didn’t need to worry about money.
Email was invented as part of a US department of defence research network (i.e. fully government-funded).
The history of medicine is too vast to go into here, but I will note that modern hospitals owe a lot to Florence Nightingale, who reformed military hospitals (there’s that government control thing again), allowing public hospitals to copy the having-become-successful military model.
Furthermore, the free market in medicine is alive and well in the world of alternative therapies (such as acupuncture, aromatherapy, homeopathy, etc.). Fortunately, we have the government placing restrictions on what the practicioners of such medicines are allowed to claim.
Interestingly, the first commercial TV was in Germany in the early 1930s. We all know what else was going on then — which handily allows me to close this thread
November 14th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Can someone let Tim_Oz know that I have posted the link the requested in GB Nov 12 on Orthodox Jews in New York celebrating the Gaza slaughter? Here it is again, anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weXuE2INmAc
November 14th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Congrats to All Whites…
November 15th, 2009 at 12:04 am
why should religious cults be exempted from paying taxes..?
that scam should be brought to a halt..
there is no logical reason for that situation to continue..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 15th, 2009 at 12:18 am
“The fact is that ever since 1095 we have denied them the opportunity to flourish in the modern world.”
Of Course! That is why the Ottoman Empire layed siege to Vienna in 1683, having already conquered much of eastern Europe.
And it also explains why these poor people, denied the opportunity to flourish, had previously made numerous attempts to conquer Constantinople, finally succeeding in 1453. Of course, being the respectful group that they are of other religions they then turned the Hagia Sophia, an Eastern Orthodox church building, into a mosque. Very respectful, that. They then set about building some magnificent buildings in the city, which DPF has shown in his travels recently. But, of course, that was a cry for help from a muslim people who had been denied the opportunity to develop by the Crusades.
Silly me, I thought it was imperialist aggression on the part of a totalitarian muslim empire. Obviously I was wrong.
But then, history starts in 1095, doesn’t it, Luc? So we can conveniently forget the muslim expansion BY FORCE in the two centuries after it was founded as first its founder and then his adherents aggressively waged war on the surrounding cities, various tribes, the Byzantine Empire, Persia, Jerusalem (which wasn’t a muslim city until it was taken by force, and then the muslims very nobly desecrated the holy site of another religion by building a mosque on it- seems pretty respectful to me and certainly doesn’t seem to the be part of a pattern) and then continued on into Egypt and North Africa, then INVADING Spain from that North African base. In fact, do I remember that you have decried the expulsion of the Moors from Spain at some point on Kiwiblog?
Oh no, those don’t count- um, why?
Luc, you are a bigot. Your one eyed view of history is both wrong and offensive. Quite frankly, I can handle the offensive part because I strongly support freedom of speech, but getting history wrong is not something I condone, especially when the knowlege is there for all to see.
Get a life and change the topic.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:41 am
I’m sure they’ll advocate for the right to free speech for Brown Racist Members of Parliament, Puke.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:45 am
“Orthodox Jews in New York celebrating the Gaza slaughter? Here it is again, anyway:”
Ah no – again let me correct you (I seem to be doing that a bit lately) – the dancing was “Am Israel Chai” – i.e. “The children of Israel are still living”. This is often sung when under attack – but clearly is not a glorification of war, which is abhorrent to Jews.
Some of the interviewees were dumbasses though. Still I guess we didn’t get to see what he edited out….
November 15th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
F E Smith
hmmm, yes I got a bit carried away there, and gave you a great opening, didn’t I? Oh well, that’s what happens when competing with all the extremists on here and a baby demanding attention. However, I take heart from the fact that you find it necessary to come in with such ferocity for one slip up, complete with the usual, obligatory personal abuse. Don’t worry, I’ll keep on keeping on if only because it’s such a great way to refine an argument.
Tim_Oz – sorry, but I’ll just take all that with a pinch of salt!