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	<title>Comments on: General Debate 20 November 2009</title>
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	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: Hurf Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634045</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurf Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634045</guid>
		<description>Israel is not South Africa, no matter how much you progressives want it to be.

Also completing something implies that it has started. I hope you have some evidence for that phenomenal claim or I shall be forwarding your comments to the Human Rights Commission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel is not South Africa, no matter how much you progressives want it to be.</p>
<p>Also completing something implies that it has started. I hope you have some evidence for that phenomenal claim or I shall be forwarding your comments to the Human Rights Commission.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634043</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634043</guid>
		<description>But Hurf,

South African whites tried that and look what happened there.

Israel has not exercised &quot;phenomenal restraint&quot; as you say; rather, it is constrained by the international community from completing the ethnic cleansing/genocide it really wishes for.  And that constraint will always be a constant.

The periodic massacres of Lebanese and Palestinians Israel is so fond of will only serve to increase the resolve of the international community and when the US finally swings into line, Israel will have to get real.

However, I expect a lot more Arab blood to flow before this is resolved, so sad.

Let&#039;s just agree to disagree and move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Hurf,</p>
<p>South African whites tried that and look what happened there.</p>
<p>Israel has not exercised &#8220;phenomenal restraint&#8221; as you say; rather, it is constrained by the international community from completing the ethnic cleansing/genocide it really wishes for.  And that constraint will always be a constant.</p>
<p>The periodic massacres of Lebanese and Palestinians Israel is so fond of will only serve to increase the resolve of the international community and when the US finally swings into line, Israel will have to get real.</p>
<p>However, I expect a lot more Arab blood to flow before this is resolved, so sad.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s just agree to disagree and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634042</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634042</guid>
		<description>getstaffed, what is the basis for your assertion and straw man argument?

This is from Pew research:

Is the frequency of hurricanes increasing?

Globally (not just in the North Atlantic), there is an average of about 90 tropical storms every year. According to the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC-AR4), globally &quot;[t]here is no clear trend in the annual numbers [i.e. frequency] of tropical cyclones.&quot;

However, in the North Atlantic there has been a clear increase in the frequency of tropical storms and major hurricanes. From 1850-1990, the long-term average number of tropical storms was about 10, including about 5 hurricanes. For the period of 1998-2007, the average is about 15 tropical storms per year, including about 8 hurricanes. This increase in frequency correlates strongly with the rise in North Atlantic sea surface temperature, and recent peer-reviewed scientific studies link this temperature increase to global warming.

There is an ongoing scientific debate about the link between increased North Atlantic hurricane activity and global warming. The 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change rates the probability of such a link as “more likely than not.” (end quote)

If Al Gore presented &quot;more likely than not&quot; as a cast iron certainty then he is certainly in the wrong.  But so are you, it seems.

The IPCC say there is no direct link between specific weather events and global warming but, over time, trends emerge consistent with global warming projections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>getstaffed, what is the basis for your assertion and straw man argument?</p>
<p>This is from Pew research:</p>
<p>Is the frequency of hurricanes increasing?</p>
<p>Globally (not just in the North Atlantic), there is an average of about 90 tropical storms every year. According to the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC-AR4), globally &#8220;[t]here is no clear trend in the annual numbers [i.e. frequency] of tropical cyclones.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, in the North Atlantic there has been a clear increase in the frequency of tropical storms and major hurricanes. From 1850-1990, the long-term average number of tropical storms was about 10, including about 5 hurricanes. For the period of 1998-2007, the average is about 15 tropical storms per year, including about 8 hurricanes. This increase in frequency correlates strongly with the rise in North Atlantic sea surface temperature, and recent peer-reviewed scientific studies link this temperature increase to global warming.</p>
<p>There is an ongoing scientific debate about the link between increased North Atlantic hurricane activity and global warming. The 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change rates the probability of such a link as “more likely than not.” (end quote)</p>
<p>If Al Gore presented &#8220;more likely than not&#8221; as a cast iron certainty then he is certainly in the wrong.  But so are you, it seems.</p>
<p>The IPCC say there is no direct link between specific weather events and global warming but, over time, trends emerge consistent with global warming projections.</p>
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		<title>By: Hurf Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634041</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurf Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634041</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m basing it on what&#039;s most practical and sensible, not on what&#039;s &quot;fair&quot; or &quot;just.&quot;

As for the Palis, 12.26am sums it up best. They&#039;re only &quot;hanging in there&quot; because Israel has chosen to exercise phenomenal restraint and haven&#039;t kicked all of them out of there for being incapable of governing them sensibly and because Egypt and Jordan has seen what happens when a shitload of Palis move in (see Lebanon and Jordan in the 1970s) to know they want them to keep the fuck away. So the best thing for both? Keep them locked up in a pair of ghettoes. That&#039;s politics for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m basing it on what&#8217;s most practical and sensible, not on what&#8217;s &#8220;fair&#8221; or &#8220;just.&#8221;</p>
<p>As for the Palis, 12.26am sums it up best. They&#8217;re only &#8220;hanging in there&#8221; because Israel has chosen to exercise phenomenal restraint and haven&#8217;t kicked all of them out of there for being incapable of governing them sensibly and because Egypt and Jordan has seen what happens when a shitload of Palis move in (see Lebanon and Jordan in the 1970s) to know they want them to keep the fuck away. So the best thing for both? Keep them locked up in a pair of ghettoes. That&#8217;s politics for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634040</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634040</guid>
		<description>There are just a couple of problems with your scenario, Hurf.

First, there is the overwhelming international consensus of the two state solution based on the June 4 1967 armistice lines.

Second, Egypt has never shown any interest in annexing Gaza, and Jordan has agreed to borders with Israel and relinquished all claims to the West Bank.

I am not getting into the rest of your post because the points I have raised make them irrelevant.

My final point is this: Palestinians, in spite of the constant Israeli occupation, dispossession and oppression, are hanging in there.  It took Maori in NZ a long time to  start to get redress and I think you will find Palestinians just as resilient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are just a couple of problems with your scenario, Hurf.</p>
<p>First, there is the overwhelming international consensus of the two state solution based on the June 4 1967 armistice lines.</p>
<p>Second, Egypt has never shown any interest in annexing Gaza, and Jordan has agreed to borders with Israel and relinquished all claims to the West Bank.</p>
<p>I am not getting into the rest of your post because the points I have raised make them irrelevant.</p>
<p>My final point is this: Palestinians, in spite of the constant Israeli occupation, dispossession and oppression, are hanging in there.  It took Maori in NZ a long time to  start to get redress and I think you will find Palestinians just as resilient.</p>
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		<title>By: getstaffed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634038</link>
		<dc:creator>getstaffed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634038</guid>
		<description>The great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ &lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/not-finding-any-gore-airbrushes-in-hurricanes-for-his-new-book&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;had a problem with his new book&lt;/a&gt;. 

The back/front cover opens out to show a picture of the Earth, complete with hurricanes and Arctic ice as shown in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/gore_hurr2.jpg?w=510&amp;h=528&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;first photo&lt;/a&gt;, which is from the Amazon press release. One hurricane and plenty of Arctic ice.

Now the great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ must have decided that the photo needed some work before the public release, so out came photoshop  and, as shown in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/gore_hurr1.jpg?w=510&amp;h=551&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;second photo&lt;/a&gt;, lots of scary hurricanes and, hey, where&#039;s the Arctic ice?!?  BTW, hurricanes are at a 30 years low positively confounding those who claim they are somehow connect to CO2 emmissions.

The great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™  is a fraud, a charlatan and is completely bereft of integrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/not-finding-any-gore-airbrushes-in-hurricanes-for-his-new-book" rel="nofollow">had a problem with his new book</a>. </p>
<p>The back/front cover opens out to show a picture of the Earth, complete with hurricanes and Arctic ice as shown in the <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/gore_hurr2.jpg?w=510&amp;h=528" rel="nofollow">first photo</a>, which is from the Amazon press release. One hurricane and plenty of Arctic ice.</p>
<p>Now the great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ must have decided that the photo needed some work before the public release, so out came photoshop  and, as shown in the <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/gore_hurr1.jpg?w=510&amp;h=551" rel="nofollow">second photo</a>, lots of scary hurricanes and, hey, where&#8217;s the Arctic ice?!?  BTW, hurricanes are at a 30 years low positively confounding those who claim they are somehow connect to CO2 emmissions.</p>
<p>The great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™  is a fraud, a charlatan and is completely bereft of integrity.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634036</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634036</guid>
		<description>Sorry Hurf, I missed your earlier post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Hurf, I missed your earlier post.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634033</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634033</guid>
		<description>Thanks Hurf

But they are still there, so what next?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Hurf</p>
<p>But they are still there, so what next?</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634032</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634032</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tom.  I stand by my postings except for that one sentence.  Tell FE Smith to by all means return.  There are three sides to every story, as we know. I only ever lay claim to one.

And we are supposed to believe that a Basiji militia member just happened to contact a JPost reporter, or vice versa.

You may believe in fairies, I don&#039;t.  

I believe lots of bad things about Muslim and Iranian practices but nothing emanating from JPost.  Did it make Haaretz?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tom.  I stand by my postings except for that one sentence.  Tell FE Smith to by all means return.  There are three sides to every story, as we know. I only ever lay claim to one.</p>
<p>And we are supposed to believe that a Basiji militia member just happened to contact a JPost reporter, or vice versa.</p>
<p>You may believe in fairies, I don&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>I believe lots of bad things about Muslim and Iranian practices but nothing emanating from JPost.  Did it make Haaretz?</p>
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		<title>By: Hurf Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634031</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurf Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634031</guid>
		<description>Palestine hasn&#039;t been viable for sixty years. They had their chance for statehood. They blew it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palestine hasn&#8217;t been viable for sixty years. They had their chance for statehood. They blew it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Sproull</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634029</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sproull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634029</guid>
		<description>If done properly, Palestine won&#039;t be in five years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If done properly, Palestine won&#8217;t be in five years.</p>
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		<title>By: Hurf Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634026</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurf Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634026</guid>
		<description>Israel retains its current borders and also absorbs the Golan Heights. Gaza is annexed by Egypt, West Bank by Jordan. Both countries take over administration and security of their new territories. Egyptian and Jordanian security forces and police take over. Direct rule by central authorities is enacted. The old leadership is purged, the terrorists among them arrested and dealt with, and they inject (with US, EU and Israeli financial support if proven to be 100% abiding by these rules) economic and infrastructure development into the new territories. Families shown to have no connection to Pali terrorism given financial incentives to move into Egypt or Jordan proper to reduce the population density. Local government gradually enacted if extremism seen to be properly expunged.

These are just off the top of my head. If done properly, Israel/Palestine won&#039;t be an issue in five years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel retains its current borders and also absorbs the Golan Heights. Gaza is annexed by Egypt, West Bank by Jordan. Both countries take over administration and security of their new territories. Egyptian and Jordanian security forces and police take over. Direct rule by central authorities is enacted. The old leadership is purged, the terrorists among them arrested and dealt with, and they inject (with US, EU and Israeli financial support if proven to be 100% abiding by these rules) economic and infrastructure development into the new territories. Families shown to have no connection to Pali terrorism given financial incentives to move into Egypt or Jordan proper to reduce the population density. Local government gradually enacted if extremism seen to be properly expunged.</p>
<p>These are just off the top of my head. If done properly, Israel/Palestine won&#8217;t be an issue in five years.</p>
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		<title>By: tom hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634023</link>
		<dc:creator>tom hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634023</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Yep, too many wines that night and I got sprung good and proper. But what struck me is that that is all your passionate lawyer got me on: a misspeak, as Hillary would say. I feel pretty good about that
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh please. Smith referenced merely the last of several of your ignorant rants about Crusades vs. Jihad and the 1095 date, all of which were equally hysterical in the style of your hero Fisk. Each of those were rants several sentences long.  A &quot;misspeak&quot; is when a word is misplaced (someone meant Iran not Iraq).

But why should I be surprised. I wasted time checking one of your rebuttal links to a story in the JPost and I wrote up the results last night in a quick post. But since you seem to read little of your material or links, let alone the responses, I&#039;ll put it up to you again.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
The enduringamerica link is about exposing the story of a rape-before-execution sanction, supposedly issued by some key religious adviser in Iran – as having started as a piece of black comedy satire on an Iranian website.

The JPost story is a reporter talking by telephone to a member of the Iranian Basiji militia, who had just been released from jail for having set free two kids – a 13-year-old boy and a 15-year-old girl – who had been arrested during those protests against the rigged elections in June. He talks about the rapes he has performed.

Even though Ryan provided the link to the latter story I figure I have to tell you the gist because if you had actually read the article you would have realised that they’re about two completely different stories. I’ve bolded that last as an additional attention getter for you
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Yep, too many wines that night and I got sprung good and proper. But what struck me is that that is all your passionate lawyer got me on: a misspeak, as Hillary would say. I feel pretty good about that
</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh please. Smith referenced merely the last of several of your ignorant rants about Crusades vs. Jihad and the 1095 date, all of which were equally hysterical in the style of your hero Fisk. Each of those were rants several sentences long.  A &#8220;misspeak&#8221; is when a word is misplaced (someone meant Iran not Iraq).</p>
<p>But why should I be surprised. I wasted time checking one of your rebuttal links to a story in the JPost and I wrote up the results last night in a quick post. But since you seem to read little of your material or links, let alone the responses, I&#8217;ll put it up to you again.</p>
<blockquote><p>
The enduringamerica link is about exposing the story of a rape-before-execution sanction, supposedly issued by some key religious adviser in Iran – as having started as a piece of black comedy satire on an Iranian website.</p>
<p>The JPost story is a reporter talking by telephone to a member of the Iranian Basiji militia, who had just been released from jail for having set free two kids – a 13-year-old boy and a 15-year-old girl – who had been arrested during those protests against the rigged elections in June. He talks about the rapes he has performed.</p>
<p>Even though Ryan provided the link to the latter story I figure I have to tell you the gist because if you had actually read the article you would have realised that they’re about two completely different stories. I’ve bolded that last as an additional attention getter for you</p>
<blockquote></blockquote>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634020</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634020</guid>
		<description>You seem to be in a reasonable mood tonight, Hurf, for you.  So may I ask what is your preferred solution to the Israel/Palestine debacle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be in a reasonable mood tonight, Hurf, for you.  So may I ask what is your preferred solution to the Israel/Palestine debacle?</p>
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		<title>By: Hurf Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634019</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurf Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634019</guid>
		<description>The Goldstone Report? Sorry, I know agitprop when I see it. And considering the UN is made up of third world shitholes, much like &quot;Palestine,&quot; I have no truck with such organisations.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Gaza has actually existed since time immemorial.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course it has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Goldstone Report? Sorry, I know agitprop when I see it. And considering the UN is made up of third world shitholes, much like &#8220;Palestine,&#8221; I have no truck with such organisations.</p>
<blockquote><p>Gaza has actually existed since time immemorial.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course it has.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634016</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634016</guid>
		<description>Hurf said: The IDF’s attempts to minimise civilian casualties in an Egyptian-created ghetto are admirable.

Whatever delusion takes your fancy.  Opening the war by killing traffic cops and kids leaving school.  The modern napalm, white phosphorous, used against schools, hospitals, UN buildings.  Have you actually read any of the Goldstone report?  It takes a strong stomach.  

Gaza has actually existed since time immemorial.  Modern Egypt has never claimed ownership of the land or granted the people Egyptian citizenship.  Unlike Jordan and the West Bank, it never annexed Gaza after 1948.

And unlike Israel and Palestinians, we have arrived at a peaceful process of reconciliation and reparation with Maori, so long as we continue that process for as long as it takes. 

And also unlike you, I don&#039;t see the issue of historic Palestine as an either/or scenario.  History is replete with examples of former bitter enemies reconciling.

Peace be upon you, comrade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hurf said: The IDF’s attempts to minimise civilian casualties in an Egyptian-created ghetto are admirable.</p>
<p>Whatever delusion takes your fancy.  Opening the war by killing traffic cops and kids leaving school.  The modern napalm, white phosphorous, used against schools, hospitals, UN buildings.  Have you actually read any of the Goldstone report?  It takes a strong stomach.  </p>
<p>Gaza has actually existed since time immemorial.  Modern Egypt has never claimed ownership of the land or granted the people Egyptian citizenship.  Unlike Jordan and the West Bank, it never annexed Gaza after 1948.</p>
<p>And unlike Israel and Palestinians, we have arrived at a peaceful process of reconciliation and reparation with Maori, so long as we continue that process for as long as it takes. </p>
<p>And also unlike you, I don&#8217;t see the issue of historic Palestine as an either/or scenario.  History is replete with examples of former bitter enemies reconciling.</p>
<p>Peace be upon you, comrade.</p>
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		<title>By: Hurf Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634009</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurf Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634009</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That everyone, including women and children, in Gaza were a target? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

In a warzone, potentially everyone is a target. The IDF&#039;s attempts to minimise civilian casualties in an Egyptian-created ghetto are admirable and should be congratulated.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The people in Beersheba could try what we are doing over here – return land to the indigenous people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh yes? Does that include the land on which your house is situated?

And, of course, after you show them the deeds you&#039;ll more than approve when the Army of the People of the Land start firing missiles at your house because, after all, they&#039;re fighting for justice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That everyone, including women and children, in Gaza were a target? </p></blockquote>
<p>In a warzone, potentially everyone is a target. The IDF&#8217;s attempts to minimise civilian casualties in an Egyptian-created ghetto are admirable and should be congratulated.</p>
<blockquote><p>The people in Beersheba could try what we are doing over here – return land to the indigenous people.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh yes? Does that include the land on which your house is situated?</p>
<p>And, of course, after you show them the deeds you&#8217;ll more than approve when the Army of the People of the Land start firing missiles at your house because, after all, they&#8217;re fighting for justice!</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634008</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634008</guid>
		<description>getstaffed, you really should getreal

But, if you are correct, I wish the IRD would send those demands to the real Luc Hansen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>getstaffed, you really should getreal</p>
<p>But, if you are correct, I wish the IRD would send those demands to the real Luc Hansen!</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634007</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634007</guid>
		<description>Chthoniid (718) Vote: Add rating 20  Subtract rating 0   Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 8:06 am

Just a quick couple of shots before the mayhem begins.

********************************************

You gotta admire the foresight  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chthoniid (718) Vote: Add rating 20  Subtract rating 0   Says:<br />
November 20th, 2009 at 8:06 am</p>
<p>Just a quick couple of shots before the mayhem begins.</p>
<p>********************************************</p>
<p>You gotta admire the foresight  <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: getstaffed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_20_november_2009.html#comment-634006</link>
		<dc:creator>getstaffed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38359#comment-634006</guid>
		<description>Luc, no it&#039;s called lying. That&#039;s a term used in every day life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luc, no it&#8217;s called lying. That&#8217;s a term used in every day life.</p>
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