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	<title>Comments on: General Debate 23 November 2009</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: Chicken Little</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635245</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicken Little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635245</guid>
		<description>Yeah I know getstaffed I was going to take the piss out of luc if he/she answered. Its seems luc is a bit of a driveby commentor though. Maybe I&#039;ll catch up with him/her today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I know getstaffed I was going to take the piss out of luc if he/she answered. Its seems luc is a bit of a driveby commentor though. Maybe I&#8217;ll catch up with him/her today.</p>
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		<title>By: getstaffed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635244</link>
		<dc:creator>getstaffed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635244</guid>
		<description>Chicken Little - the 1000 year flood observation interested me. Is the measurement damage caused, or rainfall recorded? 

The former is changed by better river management (landscaping, stop banks etc) and improved housing/roading, while the latter is at the mercy of consistent recording methods. 

Or, more likely, it&#039;s an alarmist stab at some comparison to ensure AGW headlines are created.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chicken Little &#8211; the 1000 year flood observation interested me. Is the measurement damage caused, or rainfall recorded? </p>
<p>The former is changed by better river management (landscaping, stop banks etc) and improved housing/roading, while the latter is at the mercy of consistent recording methods. </p>
<p>Or, more likely, it&#8217;s an alarmist stab at some comparison to ensure AGW headlines are created.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635242</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635242</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I know you....&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not apologising for anything. You don&#039;t know me, and have no bloody idea what I would do. I prefer decent justice, not cowboy justice. 

Your suggested approach would do nothing for the victim. 

There is a good reason our justice system has evolved to where it is now. Retribution and lynch mob mentality create more injustices than they solve. Our current justice system can no doubt be improved, but that is not by going back to the Dark Ages and beyond. Most of us have become civilised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I know you&#8230;.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not apologising for anything. You don&#8217;t know me, and have no bloody idea what I would do. I prefer decent justice, not cowboy justice. </p>
<p>Your suggested approach would do nothing for the victim. </p>
<p>There is a good reason our justice system has evolved to where it is now. Retribution and lynch mob mentality create more injustices than they solve. Our current justice system can no doubt be improved, but that is not by going back to the Dark Ages and beyond. Most of us have become civilised.</p>
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		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635214</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635214</guid>
		<description>Being silent about neanderthal bravado can give tacit support to it.
And while I’m putting my head above the parapet I’ll call this crap too

ah yes..Pete George..the great apologist ..I know you would take the two murderers aside , sit them down have a chat , try and point out the error of their ways..give them another chance...give them a hug...put them back into society quick smart...but you have forgotten one thing mr george...the victim , yes I know its a dirty word victim..your sort make me puke george. I stand by my original statement..one copperhead each.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being silent about neanderthal bravado can give tacit support to it.<br />
And while I’m putting my head above the parapet I’ll call this crap too</p>
<p>ah yes..Pete George..the great apologist ..I know you would take the two murderers aside , sit them down have a chat , try and point out the error of their ways..give them another chance&#8230;give them a hug&#8230;put them back into society quick smart&#8230;but you have forgotten one thing mr george&#8230;the victim , yes I know its a dirty word victim..your sort make me puke george. I stand by my original statement..one copperhead each.</p>
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		<title>By: Tassman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635211</link>
		<dc:creator>Tassman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635211</guid>
		<description>If Maoris feel sold out by their Party on ETS, how do New Zealanders feel about Key deciding on his own to raise the Maori flag in government buildings and on his own front lawn?

It has taken a moment for him to sell cheaply a sovereign principle it has taken Maoris a century to achieve and Conservatives to preserve.  

I don&#039;t think he knows the magnitude of what he&#039;s done!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Maoris feel sold out by their Party on ETS, how do New Zealanders feel about Key deciding on his own to raise the Maori flag in government buildings and on his own front lawn?</p>
<p>It has taken a moment for him to sell cheaply a sovereign principle it has taken Maoris a century to achieve and Conservatives to preserve.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think he knows the magnitude of what he&#8217;s done!</p>
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		<title>By: cha</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635208</link>
		<dc:creator>cha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635208</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;#  Hurf Durf (1000) Vote: Add rating 3  Subtract rating 0   Says:
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:02 pm

Just want back to yesterday’s GD. So much better without phool and bonkers and delirium.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Congrats on the grand HD:-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>#  Hurf Durf (1000) Vote: Add rating 3  Subtract rating 0   Says:<br />
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:02 pm</p>
<p>Just want back to yesterday’s GD. So much better without phool and bonkers and delirium.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Congrats on the grand HD:-</p>
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		<title>By: Chicken Little</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635207</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicken Little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635207</guid>
		<description>Luc - you appear to have missed my question above - here let me repeat it -

&lt;i&gt;Hi Luc – Just a wee question, if you could take the time please -

The last time there was a 1000 year flood (presumably around 1000 years ago?), what was the man made AGW situation?

How about the 1000 year flood before that?

And before that?

TIA

CL&lt;/i&gt;

A short answer is fine, and please no emoticons ( or whatever they&#039;re called ) ......so last week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luc &#8211; you appear to have missed my question above &#8211; here let me repeat it -</p>
<p><i>Hi Luc – Just a wee question, if you could take the time please -</p>
<p>The last time there was a 1000 year flood (presumably around 1000 years ago?), what was the man made AGW situation?</p>
<p>How about the 1000 year flood before that?</p>
<p>And before that?</p>
<p>TIA</p>
<p>CL</i></p>
<p>A short answer is fine, and please no emoticons ( or whatever they&#8217;re called ) &#8230;&#8230;so last week.</p>
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		<title>By: tom hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635205</link>
		<dc:creator>tom hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635205</guid>
		<description>Rather appropriate timing. Luc&#039;s world turns back into a pumpkin - as usual - and with no missing glass slipper to rest his hopes upon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather appropriate timing. Luc&#8217;s world turns back into a pumpkin &#8211; as usual &#8211; and with no missing glass slipper to rest his hopes upon.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635204</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635204</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll butt out now

I can see you guys are busy

having a 69er

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll butt out now</p>
<p>I can see you guys are busy</p>
<p>having a 69er</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tom hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635203</link>
		<dc:creator>tom hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635203</guid>
		<description>Getstaffed - I loved the &lt;i&gt;&quot;I love capitalism&quot;&lt;/i&gt; bit. 

Probably true - in the same way that Lenin was landed gentry prior to the Revolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getstaffed &#8211; I loved the <i>&#8220;I love capitalism&#8221;</i> bit. </p>
<p>Probably true &#8211; in the same way that Lenin was landed gentry prior to the Revolution.</p>
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		<title>By: getstaffed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635202</link>
		<dc:creator>getstaffed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635202</guid>
		<description>Tom, he&#039;s devious (&#039;I asked which government &lt;i&gt;denied&lt;/i&gt;&#039;) and dishonest (Pretends to post under his real name while mocking others&#039; use of a pseudonym). He must be a climate scientist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, he&#8217;s devious (&#8216;I asked which government <i>denied</i>&#8216;) and dishonest (Pretends to post under his real name while mocking others&#8217; use of a pseudonym). He must be a climate scientist.</p>
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		<title>By: tom hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635201</link>
		<dc:creator>tom hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635201</guid>
		<description>Poor Luc, still stuck in a worldview where words speak louder than actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor Luc, still stuck in a worldview where words speak louder than actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635200</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635200</guid>
		<description>Poor Tom, can&#039;t resist the sucker punch.

I asked which government &lt;b&gt;denied&lt;/b&gt; AGW, not which governments asked for special treatment.  And I have a lot of sympathy for their request, by the way.

Did you not read my post above @11.18pm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor Tom, can&#8217;t resist the sucker punch.</p>
<p>I asked which government <b>denied</b> AGW, not which governments asked for special treatment.  And I have a lot of sympathy for their request, by the way.</p>
<p>Did you not read my post above @11.18pm?</p>
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		<title>By: tom hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635199</link>
		<dc:creator>tom hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635199</guid>
		<description>Hmmm

A link to ONE department of the Indian government - Environment &amp; Forests, who are really driving the economy.
A link to some PR website set up by the Chinese government (smart move)
An outraged letter to the Guardian from the leader of the all-powerful Czech Green Party.

How about this instead - from July this year in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article6666576.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;London Times:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
China and India are understood to have blocked any mention of the target in the draft communiqué, insisting that the developed economies should promise to cut their own emissions sharply by 2020 before asking developing nations to commit to a long term target
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh well. Better luck with smashing capitalism next time. Though I don&#039;t fancy Luc&#039;s chances with the two largest countries in the world barrelling down that route now.

Perhaps if the Greens climb more chimney stacks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm</p>
<p>A link to ONE department of the Indian government &#8211; Environment &amp; Forests, who are really driving the economy.<br />
A link to some PR website set up by the Chinese government (smart move)<br />
An outraged letter to the Guardian from the leader of the all-powerful Czech Green Party.</p>
<p>How about this instead &#8211; from July this year in the <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article6666576.ece" rel="nofollow">London Times:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
China and India are understood to have blocked any mention of the target in the draft communiqué, insisting that the developed economies should promise to cut their own emissions sharply by 2020 before asking developing nations to commit to a long term target
</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh well. Better luck with smashing capitalism next time. Though I don&#8217;t fancy Luc&#8217;s chances with the two largest countries in the world barrelling down that route now.</p>
<p>Perhaps if the Greens climb more chimney stacks?</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635198</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635198</guid>
		<description>Why not getstaffed?  I do heaps for you!

The Czechs, China, India...I have &lt;b&gt;informed&lt;/b&gt; you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not getstaffed?  I do heaps for you!</p>
<p>The Czechs, China, India&#8230;I have <b>informed</b> you!</p>
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		<title>By: getstaffed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635197</link>
		<dc:creator>getstaffed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635197</guid>
		<description>Not interested in doing research for you &#039;Luc&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not interested in doing research for you &#8216;Luc&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635196</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635196</guid>
		<description>Hey Hurf, you said &quot;The same technology that allows us to see climate scientists as the lying collectivists that they are...&quot;

I remember your mate Roger Kerr writing about the enemies of capitalism, one was collectivism.  Trouble is, Mr Kerr, as CEO of the Business Roundtable, is employed by a &lt;b&gt;collective&lt;/b&gt;!

Thing is, for myself, I love capitalism!  It has made me a lot of money! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Hurf, you said &#8220;The same technology that allows us to see climate scientists as the lying collectivists that they are&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I remember your mate Roger Kerr writing about the enemies of capitalism, one was collectivism.  Trouble is, Mr Kerr, as CEO of the Business Roundtable, is employed by a <b>collective</b>!</p>
<p>Thing is, for myself, I love capitalism!  It has made me a lot of money! <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635195</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635195</guid>
		<description>getstaffed said I’m loving watching the smarter former-communist countries wholeheartedly reject socialism, embrace personal effort &amp; enterprise, and grow their standard of living as a result.

For example?  And can we have actual per capita income as well as per capita income growth, please, in US $?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>getstaffed said I’m loving watching the smarter former-communist countries wholeheartedly reject socialism, embrace personal effort &amp; enterprise, and grow their standard of living as a result.</p>
<p>For example?  And can we have actual per capita income as well as per capita income growth, please, in US $?</p>
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		<title>By: Luc Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635194</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635194</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t know what happened to the Guardian link but if you cut and paste it into the address bar it will work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know what happened to the Guardian link but if you cut and paste it into the address bar it will work.</p>
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		<title>By: getstaffed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_23_november_2009.html#comment-635193</link>
		<dc:creator>getstaffed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38365#comment-635193</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m loving watching the smarter former-communist countries wholeheartedly reject socialism, embrace personal effort &amp; enterprise, and grow their standard of living as a result. 

By contrast we&#039;ve become so lazy, so what-can-the-govt-do-for-me that I wonder if we&#039;ll ever pull out of the our relentless drive &lt;i&gt;down&lt;/i&gt;  the OECD rankings. 

I&#039;m expecting our resident hand-wringing liberals start to applaud this decline soon, spinning it as a move towards a fairer society as we all become impoverished together. Go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m loving watching the smarter former-communist countries wholeheartedly reject socialism, embrace personal effort &amp; enterprise, and grow their standard of living as a result. </p>
<p>By contrast we&#8217;ve become so lazy, so what-can-the-govt-do-for-me that I wonder if we&#8217;ll ever pull out of the our relentless drive <i>down</i>  the OECD rankings. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m expecting our resident hand-wringing liberals start to applaud this decline soon, spinning it as a move towards a fairer society as we all become impoverished together. Go figure.</p>
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