This entry was posted
on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 8:06 am and is filed under Uncategorized.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
290 Responses to “General Debate 26 November 2009”
National’s ETS is riddled with privileged deals for particular groups of polluters and will load enormous costs on to future generations of taxpayers.
Hone may still believe, but no longer feel free to openly express, the opinion that pakeha over the years have disadvantaged Maori, but now in power his Maori Party have, apart for a few élite, have played a major part IN DOING IT TO THEMSELVES.
Pita Sharples says many in the Party disagreed with the ETS, but passed it because of their integrity having said they will support National. What sort of integrity was that Sharples?
Indeed big bruv – how many “last chances” will he get? Ryder quite obviously is a couple of sandwiches short of a cut lunch if he does not realise that he cannot be both a professional sportsman and a party animal.
That’s what we have come to as a country.
Run by liars.
1. The Dean and convocation of the country’s premier university refuse to address the lying of one of it’s professors whilst calling for it’s students to be truthful and honest and to act with integrity when writing work.
Said lying to be the 2nd occurrence known of and containing at least 16 lies that we and they know of.
2. Our Prime Minister is happy to make deals that affect our country’s landscape with no reference to parliament nor opportunity to dialogue what is clearly a very important issues in the life of New Zealand.
One of the core reasons we turfed the last lot out was their use of urgency to fullfill their agenda without regard for the house and the people we elected there to discuss the important matters that concern us.
3. The same Prime Minister ignores the clear call from over 80% of voters to change a law they never wanted but is happy to acquiesce to 6000 others roaring up to parliament on another.
Fair dealings he called for during his opposition and in campaign mode, methinks not.
4. The same Prime Minister is basing our economic future on a lie based on faulty or altered science which is now being brought into the light by a whistle blower for all the world to see.
5. Investers are getting rorted left right and center yet no one goes to jail and seem to wiggle out of their mayhem and our regulatory bodies keep doing lunch saying we have a good economy.
6. Thousands of home owners are sitting with leaking buildings and our Prime Minister aren’t taking responsibility for the law changes and rules they the politicians changed around building that led to the debacle.
Are we deserving of this?
They say you get the government you deserve, are we such liars and crooks that we deserve this in our leading institutions?
Spot on MikeNZ. And I do notice that precisley this feeling is now going on all around the world, whatever government is in power. I sense a groundswell that many people are just so sick of politicians, that it just doesn’t matter anymore what you vote for, you’re being shafted anyway. Time for revolution, time to put firm and solid and unmutable constitutions in place and time to make sure that those are complied with. In short, it’s time WE THE PEOPLE take control again and deport all these socialist liers from the entire world (of all denominations) to an island where they can have conferences all day long as much as they like, but where they also have to produce their own sustenance. That might make them understand that there is a difference between political expediency and the real world.
So while we have DonKey promising to clean up the allowance bullshit we have yet another grubby little piggy with his grubby little snout in the trough.
Sure there has probably been nothing illegal done here, it’s just yet another case of the taxpayer freshening the branches on the money tree.
Sounds reasonable apart from him going on a bit much about it being an excellent and very good and good government (covering his coalition arse?), and the irony of the ETS not being costed properly before being rushed through (supercity?).
Also heard him being interviewed on NatRad this morning, came across well enough. I have renewed respect for him, especially as he seems to have learnt from his errant ways.
I won’t always agree with him but he seems to be back on the right track.
big bruv, yes, quite…. but what an idiot the silly woman is!
“Her partner spoke to Ryder about the vomit. He apologised and pulled his friend inside. But the partying continued the next weekend. She had not called council noise control and did not want to bother police.”
If you are constantly annoyed by neighbours’ behaviour then the best thing would be to give them one warning and then call both the noise control AND the police constantly every time they continue the behaviour. He would soon get the message.
At least it’s good to see a respectable first innings total in the test. Fine and blustery in Dunedin, should be good for a full day’s play. Won’t be much fun in the field though.
Wake up Ryder you are an alcoholic and need to stay away from any booze at all if you want to get back into cricket.
I suggest training with the sevens team to get that weight off boy, at least that way you will have very good reason to vomit.
dimmocrazy good idea lad, you grab your pitchfork and head for Wellington.
But you have to ask yourself one question, would those hories in the NZ army slot right wingers ?
President Obama today unveiled key details of the U.S. negotiation position headed into next month’s global warming talks in Copenhagen, including a provisional greenhouse gas emissions target for 2020 “in the range of 17 percent below 2005 levels” and a new itinerary that includes a personal appearance during the opening days of the U.N. conference.
Obama also spelled out his own plans to speak in Copenhagen on Dec. 9, the first visit to the annual U.N. conference by a sitting U.S. president since George H.W. Bush’s 1992 trip to Rio de Janeiro…
Obama’s move comes as sources in Beijing confirm that Chinese officials will announce on Friday their own carbon intensity target. Last month, Chinese President Hu Jintao declared China would reduce greenhouse gas intensity per unit of gross domestic product by “a notable margin,” but he did not name a number.
Mikenz and Dimmocrazy;
For nine years I was angered by the efforts of the “chlitorati” but now John Key is making them look good.
I expect National’s popularity to plunge.
yeah but he’s clever..get all the shitty things done in the first 12-18 months…the following 18 months out comes the good news including tax cuts again…even tougher on scum offenders ya dee ya…stupid joe public falls hook line and sinker…Nats back in again. He’s gone from a 10 in my book to a 3.
good question…we’ve run outa candidates…whats there are all bent…Michaeal Laws / Garth McVicar say all the right things they would be a competent duo…ooohhh wait til all the hand wringers read that !!
Intelligence information that Saddam Hussein had dismantled his weapons of mass destruction programme was received by the Foreign Office days before Tony Blair ordered the invasion of Iraq, an inquiry into the war heard today.
The revelation on the second day of the Chilcot Inquiry will raise fresh questions about the justification for invading Iraq in March 2003.
Hans Blix told the Foreign Office at the end of February 2003, a few weeks before the invasion, that Saddam might not have any weapons of mass destruction, the inquiry heard. The information was passed to Government ministers.
Re Chthoniid’s 8.23 post: Another excellent picture!
Thought we would never guess what bird it was? Ho-bloody-ho!
It’s Helenus Clarkii, a bird famed for fooling other birds and predators that it can walk on water, but has been observed and photographed only slowly sinking and never successfully water walking for any useful length of time. It’s thus part of the order ornithologists call slow sinkers. Conjecture is that the slow-sinker walk evolved as a deceit to fool predators into thinking they would never be able to follow and catch such a bird even when it was not flying. Features: exhibits very noisy, inquisitive, domineering, and bullying behaviour towards normal birds. Cultivates subservient flock of hen birds and is known to have taken some on migration across Pacific.
The family of former schoolteacher John Rowe greeted the unanimous jury verdict of two teenage cousins found guilty of his killing with “utter relief”.
In the High Court at Rotorua yesterday, six men and six women found Courtney Pauline Churchward, 18, and Lori-Lea Waiora Te Wini, 15, guilty of murdering Mr Rowe, 78, in his home a year ago. They took nearly five hours to reach their decision.
Te Wini is the second-youngest female convicted of murder.
Justice Geoffrey Venning remanded both girls in custody for sentencing in Rotorua next month.
What’s happening to our society?
At the time these ‘girls’ were 14 and 17 years old when they murdered John Rowe. Lori-Lea Waiora Te Wini is the second-youngest female convicted of murder.
As a society we seem to apply counselling type solutions after the fact, but what values are these kids being taught to even contemplate murder at age 14. And two girls, GIRLS – not that it’s any better if it had been commited by boys at the same ages. Why is violence, even amongst girls, increasing with our younger members of society? And more importantly, what has changed so dramatically within our society that has resulted in such crimes by young boys and girls?
Is our society essentially a rudderless ship adrift in a morally relativistic sea of despair?
And, assuming yes, how do we get back on track? How do you successfully teach morals?
Leave Jesse Ryder alone – I am sure everyone drank too much and had parties when they were in their early 20s. He is one of the country’s best players, and so long as his boozing isn’t interfering with that (and it’s not), he should be allowed to stay in the team.
So what would the founding fathers, who were wise enough to make the separation of church and state one of the core principles of the United States, make of the attempts by some to fashion the US into a Theocracy.
Gazz – I agree, parties at his private home are his and his neighbours business not that of NZ Cricket. As for the neighbours. They couldn’t be bothered phoning noise control or the police but were happy to talk to the media. They are fuckwits.
He’s saying something to which every Christian, every Jew and every American should pay close attention:
• God has revealed to all men the difference between right and wrong. You may not like God’s rules, but we are all without excuse as to what those rules are.
• If you don’t obey God’s rules, your heart becomes darkened to the truth. You might think you know better than God, but you are actually a fool if you do.
• When a whole society rejects the One True God and begins worshipping false gods, it opens the society up to judgment.
• Those judgments include the following: more unrighteous behavior, sexual immorality, meanness, greed, envy, violence, conflict, lies, gossip, hate for God, pride, self-centeredness, mercilessness and disrespect for parents by children. Notice that No. 1 on that list is homosexuality. However, also notice, it’s not just homosexuality, but an increase in those who take pleasure in the exhibition of homosexual behavior that comes as a judgment on a society rejecting God.
Perhaps this ties in to my comment at 9:41 am: Girls found guilty of John Rowe’s murder.
Is the fact that as a society we have deshackled ourselves from Biblical values left us open to increasing “unrighteous behavior”?
Certainly ‘violence’ is one of the above listed ‘consequences’ for divorcing ourselves from God. Would this not show up most amongst young people within our societies? It is my contention that it would.
big bruv, yes, quite…. but what an idiot the silly woman is!
I’d rather have the police taking care of real police work, rather than chasing down a drunken neighbour with little regard for his community and the people he lives amongst.
She should have called noise control though.
gazz
Leave Jesse Ryder alone
No. He is a public figure in a country with a binge drinking problem setting a bad example. Time to get real and realise he is just a drunk and needs help, rather than excusing it because he plays cricket.
Joe90
But who’s biblical law? http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=116837
I agree god save us from the God botherers who want a theocracy anywhere!
It is free will not coercion through laws that is the mark of a decent person.
That begs the question why do we need laws anyway doesn’t it?
Is there an after life?
Does it means jack shit what we do?
Who cares anyway?
2001-09-11 11:00:00 Arch [0435912] C ALPHA the only thoughts i have of are of nicholas, ian and you. i am terrified. i needed to tell you that i truly love you… always, diane
That’s quite nice.
2001-09-11 11:00:37 Skytel [005109552] A ALPHA I can’t seem to get a line out. Pls. call and let me know you’re okay. The kids and I are okay. I love you. (91
I know it would be difficult but a full taxonomic description would also describe mating and social habits.
Thus:
In complex social settings has been observed hiding behind another bird species (native english duck trevus mallardii) in an apparently cowardly attempt to avoid meeting a hovering migratory species (owenus glenii – a stumpy predator equally at home in Mediterranian and Australasian locations and has been observed in tropical locations such as Fiji’s outer islands) even though said migratory bird habitually gives surplus nest building materials to spp clarkii.
I’ll leave mating habits unsaid as I have just eaten my cornflakes.
Could someone here with some knowledge of cattle help me out. I am looking for a good beef breed for my lifestyle block. Don’t want too many – perhaps two or three. Looking for a good eating animal. I heard that Dexters are pretty good.
Time for a piece of humour. This is the superb Iowahawk, with the transcript for a new documentary on the species homo scientifica.
A brief sample:
…….
Like other species in the order homo scientifica, the climate researcher gathers and organizes data to lure grant money to the hive. In contrast to those other species, however, the climate researcher has evolved a set of complex violent behaviors to insure any data leaving the hive is perfectly adapted to nature’s most lucrative and sweetest grants.
It really is a marvel of natural selection, and explains why the climate researcher continues to thrive in any kind of weather condition.
…….
In this rare footage, the invading skeptic is repelled by a swarm of drones before he can reach the entombed data. He makes another attempt, but the Alpha Grantwriter has called in reinforcements from the grantgiver hive and the New York Times.
Do you turn the other way when a young man harms himself by punching through glass panels?
Do you turn the other way when booze is wrecking such a young man — turn away because he’s an entertaining batsman?
There are more important things than cricket.
Do you encourage your young kids to play cricket if it’s a piss head sport. No, there are plenty of other choices.
Nobody stopped Shane Warne from being in the Aussie team (apart from that time he took drugs) and he is remembered for his cricketing skill more than his off field antics. What you are advocating is taking away his livelihood, which will certainly not benefit him and will likely make him worse. What you do in your own time is nothing to do with your employer, unless it affects what you do in their time. And having parties on the weekend certainly doesn’t affect his employment.
And sure, there might be top level players boozing and having a party in cricket – it is the same in any sport. Rugby Union, League, Aussie Rules, Soccer, you name it.
Would anybody be so kind as tp point me in the direction of the link gor the greasemonkey add-on? I saw it a few days ago but can’t find it. A philu-free kiwiblog is a chance I cannot miss.
Brian,
Hard to beat Angus or even Angus/Fresian cross which are common (dairy farmers often put a beef bull over the cows that didn’t take AI and sell the resulting calves for beef) and therefore cost effective.
IMHO the flavour and tenderness has a lot to do with the way they are treated and the treatment of the carcase post-slaughter. Having said that there is some recent research that indicates that tenderness has a high genetic correlation even within a breed.
If you want to get really fancy try a Belgian Blue or Charolais but they grow so big you might need only one and therefore the risk factor increases dramatically as you could lose your entire herd if that one gets crook (bloat / FE etc).
Kris,
Those things are consequences of people turning from the Dharma.
I didn’t realise NZ (or the US for that matter) was founded upon Indian spirituality – I thought our historical link was in fact to Christianity, and the God of the Bible.
Do you have historical insight which our history books have in fact left out?
On a media tangent – it appears that it’s not just the NZ lamestream media that are ignoring the CRU shitstorm or giving it the page-23 treatment. Most US media outlets are acting in a similar way.
Unfortunately they cannot control their readers, as the editorial writers of the Houston Chronicle have just found out. They published the usual headline – Hot times: As a crucial climate change conference nears, more evidence of a warming globe – and then got hammered in the comments section.
Newsbusters has a rather funny take on this – although you have to be aware of a famous scene from a famous movie to really get it:
……why a newspaper thinks it knows more than the skeptics is beyond me.
Dave, stop.
Considering the information that has come out in the last few days about the East Anglia researchers, this cannot be a well-informed and sincere editorial. The editorial board is either ignorant of the facts, deliberately obscuring them, or simply insulting its readers.
What I am saying is we are already being judged in the here and now for rejecting God and one of those judgments is the explosion of homosexuality in our culture and the absolute explosion in the number of people accepting it, condoning it and even rejoicing in it.
The whole article, when boiled down, is a stinking puddle of homophobic bigotry.
I didn’t realise NZ (or the US for that matter) was founded upon Indian spirituality – I thought our historical link was in fact to Christianity, and the God of the Bible.
Do you have historical insight which our history books have in fact left out?
You must agree that we are all humans, and therefore share some qualities common to all?
@ Kris K (9.41am) – this was one of the more shocking murders of recent times. A friend of mine is a senior policeman in the BoP region and he told me not long after the arrests were made that his colleagues were absolutely shocked by the level of violence that these girls displayed, and by their complete and utter lack of either remorse, or any insight into what they had done. We’ve certainly become a sick society.
If you’ve known any NZ Sporting celebrities, then you’ll know that having drunken parties every weekend is at the mild end of the scale when it comes to own time ‘Antics’
I really do not understand what the big deal is here either. Were Ryders neighbours not aware that they live in the Hutt Valley, and that this kind of behaviour is to be expected?
Kris K, you seem to think two girls murdering someone is new.
It ain’t. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker-Hulme_murder
And that from times when every child was subject to compulsory god bothering.
No, not new, but certainly increasing exponentially as of recent years.
Just to highlight again from my earlier comment:
“Lori-Lea Waiora Te Wini is the second-youngest female convicted of murder.”
If that factoid doesn’t concern you, then perhaps our society is just fine (?)
The term, ‘head in the sand’, though, does spring to mind if that’s your view.
Don’t know about Botham, to me he was always the epitome of the flat track bully.
As for George Best, well I take your point, however, if any sport is going to make excuses for a player because of his extraordinary skill then George Best is the one you would make allowances for.
Ryder is a good cricketer, not great, and far from world class, George Best was arguably the greatest player the world has ever seen.
Yeah, the crime was bad enough, but the lack of remorse of the perpetrators is actually more scary, and is perhaps a better indicator of how far our society has plummeted regarding the value we place upon human life.
Are we breeding a generation of psychopaths who cannot relate to, nor care for others or their welfare?
How could anyone take a human life and have no remorse, especially at 14?
I also wonder how much our annual abortion count (~18,500) affects our societal view regarding the sanctity of ALL human life.
Thanks for the link Tom. I love this comment regarding Climategate.
The liberal media barons are flummoxed by the following developments and like the 6 year old who finally realizes there is no Santa Claus, are in deep denial.
So what would the founding fathers, who were wise enough to make the separation of church and state one of the core principles of the United States, make of the attempts by some to fashion the US into a Theocracy.
Joe, “Separation of church and state” currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant, and what the founding fathers intended. See HERE
Pascal said of Jesse Ryder “He is a public figure in a country with a binge drinking problem setting a bad example. Time to get real and realise he is just a drunk and needs help, rather than excusing it because he plays cricket.”
I agree wholeheartedly. Ryder started his career with Central Districts. He left because he was unable/unwilling to adhere to team protocols on off-field conduct. Rather than deal with his “issues”, he took them elsewhere – to Wellington, and now to the door of NZC. He is a contracted player, and NZC has the right to require him to behave in a manner that does not bring himself, NZC or the game itself into disrepute. Ryder has shown a repeated unwillingness to do that.
Contrast Ryder with Jimmy Cowan. Last season he had two “incidents” whilst on the slops, and was given an ultimatum by the NZRU – deservedly so; shape up or ship out. Cowan has toned own his off-field behaviour, and is now the first-choice All Black halfback.
The SS-T had an article on Ryder last Sunday, and there was a telling quote from Justin Vaughan at NZC:
“Asked if Ryder needed counselling or any other programme to improve his off-field behaviour, Vaughan said: “In the end we could mandate all sorts of things but if Jesse doesn’t want it, it’s going to be futile.”"
Very true words. Ryder has to decide whether his cricketing career is more important to him than his party-boy image. If he does, he has a terrific future in the game. But the choice is his alone.
The whole article, when boiled down, is a stinking puddle of homophobic bigotry.
Joe90, and what exactly does homophobia mean? Those who are scared of people who practice homosexual acts?
What about those of us who aren’t scared, but just don’t agree that it’s moral?
As a rhetorical weapon, homophobia is unequaled. It serves first to define anyone who opposes the legitimization of homosexuality as a hate-filled bigot. The universal inclusion of all opponents as homophobic is of course not emphasized. Homosexual activists publicly associate this label with violent “gay bashers” and hateful fanatics. When they use the term they want people to think about the killers of Matthew Shepard, but in conventional practice they include every man, woman and child who believes homosexuality is abnormal or wrong.
@Kris K: No, not new, but certainly increasing exponentially as of recent years.
Our population is also increasing exponentially…
You blame violence on declining morals? I’m more inclined to blame it on urbanisation and automobiles..
The fact that most of this increase in violent crime has occurred in only the last 20-30 years would give greater creedence to the declining morals within society than your “urbanisation and automobiles” theory. IMHO of course.
Brian, if your land is boggy or wet then cattle will make a hell of a mess. Especially if you don’t have a lot of land to move them around. A couple of cattle in a wet paddock will ruin the pasture in no time. A typical mixed farm would have plenty of paddocks and would keep the cattle off the wet over winter.
The other advantage of miniatures is the logistics. You can transport them on a car trailer with a pen. If you go for full-size then you’d need a yard + race etc and to send them to the works/abattoir you’ll need to get a normal stock truck. You might think you wouldn’t need to move them but you’ll need to sell them, replace them etc and if you run out of feed you might want to move them to a neighbours etc. A cattle beast isn’t a trivial thing and even something as simple as loading them onto a truck can take a few people, lots of work and sturdy yards and race.
Also if you slaughter a large cattle beast you won’t fit it all in your deep freeze and you’ll be esting the thing every day for a year.
You must agree that we are all humans, and therefore share some qualities common to all?
Yes, and I would call that ‘conscience’ (which is given us by our Creator).
But are morals the same as conscience; do our morals source uniquely from our conscience?
Or is our conscience (and therefore our morals) enhanced by additional revelation from our Creator.
It is my contention that they are, and that the additional revelation is found in God’s word; the Bible – upon which our society was originally founded.
Inventory2 “…We’ve certainly become a sick society”
Not me, not my family, and not those who I am happy to call friends. It’s a divide in our society that I think can be characterised as earners and takers. Those who respect the value of earning their way and building value versus those who would rather steal and destroy.
Malcolm – Many thanks. Every bit of information helps. One thing my prop has is a damn fine set of covered yards. The owners we brought off had agreements with other local farmers who use them in exchange for various goods/services. See no reason not to continue the deal. Land is quite dry, and there are cattle grazed on surrounding small-holdings. As far as freezer space goes – I have plenty and have lots of friends who wouldn’t say no to free meat.
The whole article, when boiled down, is a stinking puddle of homophobic bigotry.
Joe90, and what exactly does homophobia mean? Those who are scared of people who practice homosexual acts?
What about those of us who aren’t scared, but just don’t agree that it’s moral?
… and Fletch, don’t mention that it’s a ‘sin’ as well as being immoral; that gets you labelled as a ‘fundamentalist Christian homophobe’ – they’re much worse that your average garden variety ‘homophobe’.
[I think some of us may already hold that 'title' by those here with opposing views - oh well, kay sera sera.]
Agree with you on the earners/takers analysis RightNow. The motive for this crime was apparently to get some money to buy dope. A simple “high” was apparently more important than an elderly man’s life.
Brian, sounds like a good setup. In which case my only other advice would be that if you don’t have a good idea from the previous owner as to what the land can carry, under-stock until you get a feel for it. You don’t want to get in a situation where you’re having to feed the animals in winter and summer.
Kris K – bigger than our Lower Hutt section We currently produce a lot of our own food on our small 600m2 section (why I have no sympathy for lazy fucks who moan about being too poor to buy decent food while living in a State house with a fucking big section). This move is part of a desire to feed ourselves over the years ahead while we are physically capable of doing so. With the move we are aiming at being pretty self-sufficient within two years.
Yes, and I would call that ‘conscience’ (which is given us by our Creator).
But are morals the same as conscience; do our morals source uniquely from our conscience?
Or is our conscience (and therefore our morals) enhanced by additional revelation from our Creator.
It is my contention that they are, and that the additional revelation is found in God’s word; the Bible – upon which our society was originally founded.
What does it mean to you for morals to be “enhanced”?
Agree completely Righnow. There was an excellent article on this broad topic after a recent (within the last year or so) murder. I believe it was of Mark McCutcheon, who went to the aid of a woman being bashed by a gang member.
It was titled “the tale of two new Zealand’s” or something. For the life of my I can’t find it on the Herald or Stuff. But the sight of a hardwroking businessman being murdered by gang scum, then his mother (who was an invalids beneficiary) having to be dragged out of court screaming and barking, was en eye-opener
Yeah, I have often thought it would be good to approach a farmer and get meat ‘direct’ as home kill, and give him a donation in acknowledgement. I simply refuse to pay supermarket/export prices for good meat. Once you’re set up I may have a chat with you about some such.
Brian – I’m no farmer however a family friend has 4 sheep on his 2 acres and they are fairly easy to raise – they even eat leaves off the trees he trims. Just a thought if cattle get to hard.
I run half a dozen ewes for meat, they are generally easy to handle. Cattle are harder to handle and need better fencing, I have a workmate who has cattle so that’s simple, I just got a half side delivered bagged and frozen. Having the first sample of that (scotch fillet) tonight.
Someone mentioned above – breed affects what the meat is like (diet can too), but it’s important they are killed and hung properly, used a butcher for a while who did everything same day and it was tough as, next butcher hung for a week and it is delicious and tender.
Also aiming to be as self sufficient as possible. I have just finished putting up fence, posts and wires around a garden/berry/cherry orchard and will install bird netting this weekend. I have previously netted individual trees and bushes which is a nuisance. This will be a walk in 20m x 15m fresh feast (I hope).
Agree with your sentiments completely – and that ‘violent youth’ have become a rising-phenomenon in New Zealand over a relatively recent time period.
I would suggest that the time period can be sheeted-home with a reasonable degree of precision to the introduction of the ‘Tomorow’s Schools’ eduction reforms in the late ’80′s, under, I vaguely recall, Labour (though I could be wrong on this).
It was at that point that ‘liberalism’ made its way into the New Zealand education-system and the eager young minds under its liberal-tutorage were taught that it was perfectly natural to be homosexual and lesbian, that maori had been terribly disadvantaged and needed all the help they could get and that education was about equality for all -especially for the poor, neglected, under-privileged (and under-achieving) Maori.
Essentially Tomorrow’s Schools was a very concerted and deliberate ‘dumbing-down’ of what had hither-to been a very good education system, and rather than ‘raising Maori education standards up’ it was decided to bring everything down to the lowest-possible level, so that Maori wouldn’t feel disadvantaged.
(Note: A qualification must, of course, be made here – it wasn’t ALL Maori who needed to be helped, only some, but rather than concentrate on the few and raise their standards for teh long-term good of society at large, the entire system was altered to make the few feel ‘less disadvantaged’).
The fact that, until that time Maori had not actually been disadvantaged or actually felt that they were, was not considered to be in any way relevant as various Maori radicals (those who were trained at Auckland Uni especially) who were speaking for ‘all Maori’ had managed to convince themselves and the government that all Maori were ‘down-trodden and deprived’ and so the policy was implimented.
Coincidental with this was the abolition of corporal punishment, since the ‘baby boomers’ (by now in government) had decided that, since they hadn’t liked receiving hidings from their ex-military fathers (and no, we won’t go there), they would abolish this and everyone would live in an atmosphere of ‘peace and love’ (remember the flower-children?).
(Sue Bradfords’s legislation is the latest manifestaion of this thinking, BTW)
Unfortunately, the genie that they released, combined with mankind’s inherent evil tendencies (and yes, I am a Christian), has resulted in the creation of a generation of children that now has no restraints in respect of violence and absolutely no respect for human life.
Maori-youth, in particular, and with the enthusiastic encouragement of their elders and the radicals in their midst, were encouraged to believe that they were more-special than absolutely anyone else (the Treaty said so) and so-took this ‘liberal message’ to heart, developing a ‘you can’t touch me, I can do what I want – I’m Maori’ stance which is now very evident in our society. This attitude (as reflected by Hone) was reinforced, albeit unintentionally, by the mass-invasion of US (Black) hip-hop music in the early 2000′s, which music was all about being ‘gangsta’, a hero and sticking-it to both society, the cops, and (especially) whitey – the mantra being ‘I am da man and you are nuffin’.
The fact that this attitude has been adopted by those who consider it ‘cool’ to be uneducated has resulted in the creation of an ignorant, semi-literate underclass who, fueled by the desire for ‘bling’ (as per hip-hop) but unable to get it by conventional means (aka ‘work’) resort to the very thing the liberals were trying to avoid by removing corporal punishment – ‘violence’, since if the victim just sits and sings ‘give peace a chance’ while being robbed or beaten-up (as they have been taught to in school), they are an easy mark.
These tendencies, combined with the liberal viewpoints held by the baby-boomers now on the judical benches who still insist on ‘wet bus-ticket’ responses, means that, over-all nothing is going to change any time soon; indeed it will probably become worse, and as Hone is a hero to many, this is not to be wondered at.
The liberals still just sit and wring their hands (certain politicians come to mind immediately), and so . . .
What does it mean to you for morals to be “enhanced”?
Kind of gets back to our earlier conversation on ‘absolute objective morals’.
I believe a biblical worldview/values enhances our conscience (and therefore our morals). And that the ‘ultimate’ enhancement occurs when the Spirit of God indwells a person, and the person submits to the Spirit and God’s word.
Sort of a 1-2-3 progression:
1. Conscience (we all have one).
2. Conscience plus following biblical values (perhaps many kiwis fall into this group).
3. Conscience plus the Spirit of God plus following biblical values and God’s word.
Pete George – sounds great. We don’t have too many fruit trees on this property. There are some old fashioned oranges and lemons, and a few apple trees. However, we do have some really nice walnut trees. Sheep will be our second animal choice. First off is getting a chook house up and running. Initially I will just let the neighbour graze his sheep in my paddocks until such time as I buy my own. I have to work full time as well so this will be a work in progress.
1. Conscience tells them something is morally wrong.
2. Conscience plus Biblical values tells them something is morally wrong.
3. Conscience plus Spirit of God plus following Biblical values tells them the thing is actually morally right.
Sheep are good lawn mowers, as long as you don’t let it get too long. Sheep prefer shorter grass, cattle prefer to longer.
Got the chooks, nice deep yellow eggs. Chickens are also a deeper colour and have some taste compared to pumped up commercial ones.
We didn’t have any fruit trees have planted about twenty various stone and pip, citrus no good here. It’s only the berries and cherries that we are bird netting.
NZ climate scandal: NIWA “adjusts” records to show warming
Climate Conversation Group Convenor in association with the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition (NZCSC)
Richard Treadgold
New Zealand may have its own “Climategate”, including manipulation of temperature readings, according to a combined research project undertaken by members of the Climate Conversation Group and the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. The researchers claim that temperature readings from seven weather stations throughout New Zealand have been adjusted to show a higher degree of warming than is justified by a study of the original raw data.
Spokesman for the group, Richard Treadgold, said that recent claims that New Zealand is warming have been proved wrong. “Official information clearly shows that temperatures in New Zealand have actually been remarkably stable since 1850. We got the data from the online National Climate Database maintained by NIWA and we made our own graph, which we compared with theirs. The results are shocking.
“NIWA’s official graph (done originally by Dr Jim Salinger, who features also in the emails leaked from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia) shows considerable warming, which they give as 0.92°C per century, saying this is consistent with global warming over the 20th century. But the actual temperature readings taken from the thermometers show an almost flat trend for 150 years.
“These figures all come from NIWA. So, why are they so different from each other?
Because NIWA has adjusted the earliest temperature readings downwards by up to 1.3°C, which has the effect of introducing a false ‘warming’ as the graph then ‘climbs’ to the present day. It’s a disgrace. So far, neither Dr Salinger nor NIWA has revealed why they did this,” said Mr Treadgold …
Coincidental with this was the abolition of corporal punishment, since the ‘baby boomers’ (by now in government) had decided that, since they hadn’t liked receiving hidings from their ex-military fathers (and no, we won’t go there), they would abolish this and everyone would live in an atmosphere of ‘peace and love’ (remember the flower-children?).
(Sue Bradfords’s legislation is the latest manifestaion of this thinking, BTW)
Excellent comment – and I agree wholeheartedly.
Although I would add in qualification that as a baby-boomer (pre 1964 – I made it by 2 years; dob 1962) it was only those of a liberal persuasion that wanted to change the whole corporal punishment thing. I’m sure many of the 87% that voted against Bradford’s Bill in the referendum were in fact disgruntled baby-boomers who could see the writing on the wall should this legislation remain in place. I think many of these same people also saw the error in removing CP from schools back in the 80s.
Much of these ‘crap’ law changes were not mandated by the people, and were in fact brought in despite much public opposition. The 1986 Homosexual Law Reform is another in this category.
We’ve certainly made a ‘rod for our own back’.
[Prov 10:13, 26:3]
Unbelievable: The UK Met Office predicts higher temperatures in the next decade – with a 50% probability. They should be sacked and replaced with a coin-toss program. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6930523.ece
“The weather forecaster said there is a 50 per cent chance that the world average temperature in 2010 will be warmer than in 1998, which is the warmest on record in the Met Office’s 160 years of data.”
They go on to say “The institute said that emissions of carbon dioxide from fossil fuels, the main cause of global warming, were “tracking near the highest scenarios considered so far” by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.”
What does it mean in real terms?
For example, could someone go through this?
1. Conscience tells them something is morally wrong.
2. Conscience plus Biblical values tells them something is morally wrong.
3. Conscience plus Spirit of God plus following Biblical values tells them the thing is actually morally right.
Is Brian twitching yet?
In answer to your question I would say ‘No’.
Of course pride/sin/flesh can rise up in any individual and he can ignore conscience (enhanced or not) and thus justify to himself that something that is immoral is in fact moral. Of course part of this justification process means that the definition of ‘morals’ is changed along the way.
The old argument, “I’m basically a good person who enjoys ‘casual sex’ (fill in the blank) … “, comes to mind.
Bottom line: either we make the rules or God does.
“..Several months ago, CNN published the results of a couple of disturbing polls about Americans and their religious beliefs.
The first found that more Americans are rejecting religion and thus, according to CNN, America is becoming “less Christian.”
The second, a Pew survey of only 742 mostly white evangelical Protestants, revealed that more than six in 10 of them believe that torture is often or sometimes justified.
More than six in 10?
What this says about those claiming to be God’s own is that perhaps they should use their Bibles for more than “thumping.”
Because not one in 10 — not one in 10 thousand — not one in 10 million — Christians believes that torture can ever be justified.
Ever.
Anyone who has paid attention to the growing number of evangelical zealots over the past couple of decades must be aware that there is a growing chasm between Religion and Christianity.
Today, the term, “religious Christians” is nothing if not oxymoronic.
It seems when folks become apocalyptic frothing-at-the-mouth religious, they ultimately stray from the light and life of Christianity ..
.. while descending deeper into the darkness and death of Religion.
Because, all religion is politics.
CNN quoted Mark Silk of Trinity College, who said, “In the 1990s, it really sunk in on the American public generally that there was a long-lasting ‘religious right’ connected to a political party, and that turned a lot of people the other way.”
Silk cited the obvious link between the Republican Party and groups such as the Moral Majority and Focus on the Family.
Tony Perkins, the right-wing evangelical president of the Family Research Council, told CNN not to worry.
He said people will return to their faith in droves; that soon, the decline will ease and religion will be an even greater part of people’s lives.
The good news, according to Perkins, is, “As the economy goes downward, I think people are going to be driven to religion.” (emphasis added)
Yes, as more Americans lose their jobs, their homes, their very reasons for living, those like Perkins see them as Manchurian congregations —
–flocks driven to religion like cattle — bawling, shuffling, pushing, milling around with tags in their ears, looking for a leader.
Even now, they can be seen in mammoth mega-churches, some with arms raised — fists clutching at dead air — others writhing in the aisles, moaning, begging for some “sign” from their rigidly religious God.
Perhaps their panic stems from the instinctive knowledge that God, unable to get a word in edgewise, has left the building.
The conservative religious right is a frightening political force driven in its efforts to divide and conquer by greed, an insatiable lust for power, and an ideology of hate.
Its members, unable to drag God down to their level, have no qualms about elevating themselves to what they perceive as His level.
They succeed in controlling the flock because fear — especially fear of God — is a great motivator.
They use God not only as a weapon against millions who stand between them and their goals of replacing democracy with theocracy ..
.. and of controlling the worlds resources and its people —
– but as a divine justification for the destruction they leave in their wake..”
Kris – we can all be good people and not believe in a higher being. Human decency makes society a better place to live in, and we don’t need the threat of fire and brimstone to be decent. Casual sex also makes life more fun too
I also don’t see why you believe that homosexuals are bad people – they are just people like everyone else. The Bible teaches tolerance (love thy neighbour) however it is certainly intolerant to make the sexual preference of a portion of society illegal. I don’t particularly like god botherers putting their beliefs in my face either, however I will never support a ban on them doing so as I know I can just ask them to leave me alone or put them on my list for Remove It Permanently and they will no longer annoy me.
I also support the rights of parents to choose the appropriate punishment for their kids. It is not the right of the state to choose that (thus it can’t be practised in schools, and the reason why Bradford’s bill is so bad), just like it’s not the right of the state to choose what religion or political views each child should have.
Phil, as I have pointed out before, and Kris probably knows the chapter and verse, Jesus himself advocated that disobedient children be taken outside the city gates and stoned to death, so what on earth can you expect from fundies?
Kris,
In that case, what is “enhancement” doing? Your conscience knows what’s right and wrong.
‘Conscience’ is like the base model of a production run car (#1).
‘Conscience plus’ is like the GT version (#2).
‘Conscience plus plus’ is like the full blown race version (#3).
Each “enhancement” brings us closer to the original as intended by the Designer/God.
Conscience alone is more able to be ‘reasoned’ with and therefore tempted to go off track. Each additional “enhancement” gives the individual greater resistance to giving in to temptation; self delusion, or being deluded by others.
I thoroughly recommend the ‘Conscience plus plus’ upgrade!
Brian Smaller 10 13 Bit late coming to this but IMHO the biggest drawback to homekill is the large volume of mince and stew you will get from the body of beef and although that is no problem here it may be for you. Therefore your best bet is to just let the grazing for a fee or grow and sell and use the money to buy the cuts you like. From my experience although the home kill meat quality is mostly awsome (there are some pitfalls) you may be more than a little surprised at the ratio of cuts you get. I have knowledge of first time homekill people who are bloody certain they have been ripped off when they see the small package of fillet compared to the buckets of mince the butcher gets for them as a yield Not being negative just an honest warning. Regards murray
Luc – a light smack is not child abuse. Equally it can be considered abusive to lock a kid in a closet for a few hours, however this is not illegal. The Borrows amendment was going to define “reasonable force” as a light smack (which I am sure that 87% of the electorate will find acceptable), however we got stuck with a law that 87% of the electorate disagrees with.
You don’t have to smack your kids, but please don’t tell anyone else how to raise theirs.
Kris, if ‘Conscience plus plus’ is like the full blown race version (#3) then is it road legal? It seems perhaps I can only exercise Conscience plus plus on private property. Lucky I’ve still got my second conscience, even though it’s an old dunger and I find it regularly breaks down, especially when I’ve filled it with ethanol based fuels.
Luc – most Christians, and by most I mean a small majority of say 99% don’t believe that kill your bad kids stuff that is in the bible. Point out the last place a group of Christians stoned an unruly child, or adulterer to death? Trying to justify your point of view on archaic stuff that not even tent revival Southern Baptists believe in seems stupid. How about taking aim at the religion that actually DOES stone people to death, and try to make sure they don’t get a foothold in your society and start telling you how to live your life.
Repton was it you that originally posted the RIP add-on?
If so, thank you very much, you have made my kiwiblog far more enjoyable.
I rolled my own solution with Greasemonkey (which I still use). I posted it here, but I’m not sure if anyone else successfully got it going. Such is life.
Each “enhancement” brings us closer to the original as intended by the Designer/God.
Conscience alone is more able to be ‘reasoned’ with and therefore tempted to go off track. Each additional “enhancement” gives the individual greater resistance to giving in to temptation; self delusion, or being deluded by others.
I thoroughly recommend the ‘Conscience plus plus’ upgrade!
That’s all well and good, but what does it mean in real terms? An enhanced car may run smoother, faster or cleaner. A conscience evaluates actions as being right or wrong. How can conscience run better without changing how it evaluates things – ie., finding something right that it previously found wrong, or wrong that it previously found right?
Kris, do you think all parents should accept capital punishment for their kids because some parents want it?
When I was at college corporal punishment was the norm. Most parents were happy with this and basically had the attitude that if you misbehave then you get what you deserve.
To be honest, Pete, I would rather have my child caned at school under CP, than have no CP in schools but my kid get stabbed by some little shit that’s never been disciplined in his life. I believe the latter is the reality in many modern-day NZ schools since CP was removed from them. Heck, even teachers get stabbed by students these days. This will only get worse with CP now removed from the home under Bradford’s Bill.
If you read Komata’s 12:16 pm comment above you will also see were I’m coming from in this regard.
bb – the IDE controller is what your hard disk and CD Rom drives hook onto (they’re substantially replaced by a new technology called SATA on newer machines). Make sure you’re backed up.
Brian – I’m sure 99% of Muslims don’t condone the stoning people to death stuff either. They just want to get on with their lives without stupid fundamentalists of any denomination blowing them up.
Ryan – an enhanced car may also go faster, so does that mean that ADHD kids are more godly?!
It would pay to make a second copy of your files anyway, in case your computer gets damaged or gets a virus. You only need one electrical storm to destroy your photos.
Kris – we can all be good people and not believe in a higher being. Human decency makes society a better place to live in, and we don’t need the threat of fire and brimstone to be decent. Casual sex also makes life more fun too
I also don’t see why you believe that homosexuals are bad people – they are just people like everyone else. The Bible teaches tolerance (love thy neighbour) however it is certainly intolerant to make the sexual preference of a portion of society illegal. …
While I know many good decent people of all persuasions, there are also some pretty unsavoury characters. It’s a bit of a pick ‘n mix out there. Most Christians I know have a higher moral standard compared to those that may be good people, but are not Christian. So while I’m sure you’re a good person, your casual sex comment would go against most Christian/biblical beliefs.
And I have no more problem with individual homosexuals as people than I do with those who practice casual sex. But I do have a problem with the radical homosexual lobby which desires to normalise this as just another ‘lifestyle choice’.
If I follow Christ and the Bible then I must adhere to God’s word in regards to His view on homosexuality, casual sex, etc. If He identifies it as sin then that is my belief too. And you’re actually wrong; the Bible is very intolerant of sin (homosexuality et al). Christ admonished people to “go and sin no more”. In my opinion homosexuality is a choice.
BB, shouldn’t have anything to do with your internet connection. My suggestion in these cases (being the de facto tech support guy for my extended family) is to try a system restore back to a time you know everything was working.
This is accessed from
Start>All programs> Accessories> System Tools> System Restore.
Assuming you have system restore enabled it should have some dates on a calendar with restore points. Choose a date you know everything was working fine and follow the instructions.
The downside of that is that next time your computer does automatic updates it is likely to install something that breaks it again.
That’s all well and good, but what does it mean in real terms? An enhanced car may run smoother, faster or cleaner. A conscience evaluates actions as being right or wrong. How can conscience run better without changing how it evaluates things – ie., finding something right that it previously found wrong, or wrong that it previously found right?
I think you really know where I’m coming from, Ryan, but I’ll try and expalin.
Conscience alone is like a course filter. So while we may pick up on the big issues, often we miss the more subtle ones. Also, while we may ‘know’ something is wrong, it is hard to explain the why behind that ‘knowledge’. For example, why is murder wrong? Whatever argument we put forward it will always be a subjective, ‘greater good’ type justification. Thus the only way to have ‘absolute objective morals’ is to go to the One who gave us a conscience in the first place; the Creator God.
Aside from God, our morals, laws, lifestyle choices, etc., are nothing more than an agreed upon group consensus. And if one is a proponent of evolution one must ask why is it that only mankind has a morality, and I would argue a conscience; a God given ability to discern between right and wrong. Animals don’t make moral choices.
Most Christians I know have a higher moral standard compared to those that may be good people, but are not Christian.
Like Graham Capill?
I am sure that most homosexuals wouldn’t agree that it’s a choice. And there is nothing wrong with it – it is religious nuts who have demonised it. The Greeks were well known for it prior to the spread of Christianity. The Bible may be quite explicit with saying that you shouldn’t sin, however it’s not really for you to tell other people not to do so.
BB- if you do a system restore, make sure you back up first.
Brian Smaller at 12.31 who claims he lives in the Wangaehu valley.
What is it with you bastards from the Whanganui area. Do you hate the letter “H” so much that you leave it out of Whangaehu AND Whanganui?
I think you really know where I’m coming from, Ryan, but I’ll try and expalin.
Conscience alone is like a course filter. So while we may pick up on the big issues, often we miss the more subtle ones. Also, while we may ‘know’ something is wrong, it is hard to explain the why behind that ‘knowledge’. For example, why is murder wrong? Whatever argument we put forward it will always be a subjective, ‘greater good’ type justification. Thus the only way to have ‘absolute objective morals’ is to go to the One who gave us a conscience in the first place; the Creator God.
So an enhanced conscience finds the same things right and wrong as it did previously, but now it can add “cos God says” after any such evaluation?
That doesn’t really solve the problem you pose. It just makes God the subject of the subjective morals. Why does God saying so make something good?
Aside from God, our morals, laws, lifestyle choices, etc., are nothing more than an agreed upon group consensus. And if one is a proponent of evolution one must ask why is it that only mankind has a morality, and I would argue a conscience; a God given ability to discern between right and wrong.
Well, if you define it as “god-given”, that’s not a fair question. But as for why humans have consciences, that’s easily explained in terms of evolution.
Animals don’t make moral choices.
What gives you the idea that animals don’t make moral choices?
Uplug your CDROM and see if it solves the problem BB just pull out the IDE/power cable if you still can’t connect to your ISP then its more than the CDROM.
Most Christians I know have a higher moral standard compared to those that may be good people, but are not Christian.
Like Graham Capill?
I am sure that most homosexuals wouldn’t agree that it’s a choice. And there is nothing wrong with it – it is religious nuts who have demonised it. The Greeks were well known for it prior to the spread of Christianity. The Bible may be quite explicit with saying that you shouldn’t sin, however it’s not really for you to tell other people not to do so.
I did say ‘most’. There are of course some who let the side down badly. And I would contend that they have supressed their consciences in the making of bad/sinful choices a la Capill.
You’re right, I can’t personally tell people not to do anything, but I WILL tell them what the God of the Bible thinks about their actions/choices; and what the consequences will be for them if they reject His offer to redeem them from their sins. They may not like it of course, but to not inform them would be remiss of me, especially in light of the consequences.
While we have breath the offer remains on the table …
So an enhanced conscience finds the same things right and wrong as it did previously, but now it can add “cos God says” after any such evaluation?
But the opposite isn’t true to your first statement. Conscience alone is only a coarse filter.
And yes, essentially it is true ‘cos God says’; God makes the rules – we accept/reject them.
That doesn’t really solve the problem you pose. It just makes God the subject of the subjective morals. Why does God saying so make something good?
Disagree – God is the author of absolute morals.
Because God is ‘good’.
Well, if you define it as “god-given”, that’s not a fair question. But as for why humans have consciences, that’s easily explained in terms of evolution.
Disagree.
Evolution explains nothing, and certainly not the existence of human conscience.
What gives you the idea that animals don’t make moral choices?
Most/all choices animals make are primarily concerned with their survival: food, shelter, caring for their young; these are not driven by morals.
Most choices we make have very little to do with our survival; our physical survival, anyway. So while an animal may kill the offspring of a rival of its own species eg a lion, and this results in better survivability of his progeny, the same is not true for humans, even IF it would improve the survivability of my/our progeny. The lion is not considered immoral for such actions, whereas we are. See the difference?
And of course the Bible never warned animals against making bad moral, or sinful, choices.
Ryan: “What gives you the idea that animals don’t make moral choices?”
William S Burroughs said only dogs and man have a sense of right and wrong (Warning to Young Couples, from Spare Ass Annie and Other Tales, William S Burroughs and the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy 1993)
“dogs are the only animal other than man with a sense of right and wrong” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsSPJCEeRX0 at 1.30 in to the track
Yesterday, the company that boasts shelf upon shelf of arnica, St John’s wort, flower remedies and calendula cream admitted that homeopathy doesn’t necessarily work.
But it does sell. Which according to Paul Bennett, the man from Boots, is why the pharmacy chain stocks such products in the first place.
Mr Bennett, professional standards director for Boots, told a committee of MPs that there was no medical evidence that homeopathic pills and potions work.
‘There is certainly a consumer demand for these products,’ he said. ‘I have no evidence to suggest they are efficacious.
‘It is about consumer choice for us and a large number of our customers believe they are efficacious.’
His declaration recalls Gerald Ratner’s infamous admission in 1991 that one of the gifts sold by his chain of jewellers was ‘total crap’.
And of course, HeadOn and all the rest of the New Age natural junk. It’s amusing how witchcraftery has become more popular among most of these nature freaks who state loudly that they are “progressive,” in a similar manner to economics. It is not socialism that is “progressive” but capitalism, which the events of the 1980s all around the world showed us.
Ian Wishart also has the story on NZ’s own NIWA allegedly faking warming trends in their data.
Seems it is a favorite thing to do with warming scientists.
And you know what’s really pathetic? When those much-vaunted computer models cited by the “moderate centre left” can’t even predict 20th century rainfalls:
None of the multiple computer simulations used by a UN climate-change agency for assessments of global warming appears good enough to predict how India’s monsoon will behave, two Indian scientists have said.
The researchers examined 10 simulations of future climate scenarios used by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and found none could reproduce correctly the behaviour of even 20th-century rainfall.
Not a single model could simulate realistically key features of the Indian monsoon such as maximum activity over the Bay of Bengal and the Northeast and along the west coast, and minimum activity over the northwest, the researchers said. They have presented their analysis in a review paper in Current Trends in Science, a publication of the Indian Academy of Sciences.
In attempts to assess impacts of global warming, the IPCC considered 17 models of how climate would evolve as carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere rose. Some models predict more rainfall over India, but with great uncertainty.
“The models have very serious problems in simulating even 20th century monsoon patterns,” said Madhavan Rajeevan, a senior scientist at the National Atmospheric Research Laboratory, Tirupati, and a co-author of the paper.
“When a model (computer simulation) cannot even show with reasonable accuracy monsoon behaviour in the past, there’s a big question mark over its ability to predict future patterns,” Rajeevan told The Telegraph.
This CRU hack is the most damaging thing to AGW since…you know, I can’t think of any.
Genesis 19 – Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”
”No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing.
I guess you accept this as one place where the Bible condemns homosexuality. But if you accept this as a statement of morality, please explain the verse that follows those above . . .
8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them.
Disagree – God is the author of absolute morals.
Because God is ‘good’.
Can you explain how this is different from saying, “Just because”?
Disagree.
Evolution explains nothing, and certainly not the existence of human conscience.
Evolution explains a great many things. I find it difficult to believe you think it explains nothing. As for the human conscience, that is easily explained as a development from herd instincts. Morality is simply a compulsion to act one way rather than acting another way. Acting one way rather than another way is fairly obviously an advantageous trait, and animals in herds that developed the trait would have an advantage over animals in herds that did not.
Most/all choices animals make are primarily concerned with their survival: food, shelter, caring for their young; these are not driven by morals.
Looking after your children is not driven by morals? I suppose it could be argued that it is driven by love, rather than morals.
Most choices we make have very little to do with our survival; our physical survival, anyway. So while an animal may kill the offspring of a rival of its own species eg a lion, and this results in better survivability of his progeny, the same is not true for humans, even IF it would improve the survivability of my/our progeny. The lion is not considered immoral for such actions, whereas we are. See the difference?
Certainly most animals’ morals would differ from most humans’ morals in some respects. But I know I’ve looked after a dog who knew he wasn’t allowed on the carpet, and when I caught him, he looked guilty as sin and walked back to the wooden floor looking very ashamed.
Evolutionary behaviour that can be described as altruistic (and in this sense, having some moral basis) have had explanations going back to the 1970s and early 1980s. Axelrod in his seminal text on the Evolution of Altruism, showed in a number of computer simulated contests, altruistic cooperative strategies could outcompete selfish, opportunistic strategies. One might prefer a theistic origin for altruistic behaviour, but there are certainly solid scientific rationales for the evolution of such behaviour also.
The only important files I have are family pictures and the like
Family photos are the most important files you have. With people printing less and less often, a lot of memories and special occasions exist only as a few lines of code on your PC. I’m absolutely certain that in 10-20 years time, it will be the photos of my wife and kids, on birthdays and holidays- that will mean the most to me.
I had a colleague once in Ca, who was wondering why he was spending so much time and money on photography. Then, when one of the perennial forest fires threatened he had to leave his house quickly. As he was packing in haste, grabbing only the most important stuff to toss in the car, he realised why. He’d just honed in on all the family photo albums. Ultimately those were the material things that mattered the most. And I’ve heard plenty of horror stories of people losing years worth of albums when something crashes or gets stolen.
I actually upload a lot of family photos to private albums on my website. It means that if my house gets burgled, or burns down, or is covered in volcanic debris from Rangitoto, there is an offsite location for these photos. I use zenfolio as my site (US-based). The family photos are hidden from view except to other family members who know the secret location and password.
Genesis 19 – Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
Gen 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
Gen 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
I guess you accept this as one place where the Bible condemns homosexuality. But if you accept this as a statement of morality, please explain the verse that follows those above . . .
Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Other Christians here may disagree; so this is just my opinion.
I believe Lot, though righteous, was just a man.
In simple terms I believe his choice was the lesser of two evils. That giving his two virgin daughters, while bad, was not as evil as giving the two men (angels) to the Sodomites/sodomites outside. Perhaps, too, he knew they wouldn’t take up his offer anyway.
You may like to read Romans chapter one, among others, regarding the Bible/God’s view on homosexuality (and other sins of this/our age). I suggest you read it in the KJV Bible.
In simple terms I believe his choice was the lesser of two evils. That giving his two virgin daughters, while bad, was not as evil as giving the two men (angels) to the Sodomites/sodomites outside.
Really? You wouldn’t try to protect your children above all else, let alone for a couple of strangers?
“Hey, these are me mates, leave ‘em alone, fuck my daughters!” I’m a bit stunned.
I am truly grateful for whoever sussed out the RIP add-ons, philu plus another few assorted morons have been removed from my kiwiblog experience permanently. A sincere thanks.
As a sidenote, what a rare display of test cricket competence by us… good stuff
Nick, that’s a bit unfair not saying which of the other assorted morons, we won’t know if we can pull your leg while your eyes are closed.
Certainly some good cricket – in test! That’s a bit rare these days. Surely we can’t lose, and in a good position at the moment. The forecast is ok apart from plenty of wind and maybe a bit of late rain tomorrow.
Can you explain how this is different from saying, “Just because”?
Not really.
Apart from what He has done in my life, and the way in which He has revealed Himself through His creation, fulfilled prophecy, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and the testimony of His word.
Evolution explains a great many things. I find it difficult to believe you think it explains nothing. As for the human conscience, that is easily explained as a development from herd instincts. Morality is simply a compulsion to act one way rather than acting another way. Acting one way rather than another way is fairly obviously an advantageous trait, and animals in herds that developed the trait would have an advantage over animals in herds that did not.
I believe evolution is a crock (we were debating it a while ago, but you piked out over carbon dating). As I’ve said before; I believe AGW to be the SECOND biggest pseudo scientific theory foisted upon a gullible world – second to evolution. Evolutionists, like warmists, promote it via the same methods as those that push the AGW lie.
And Ryan, “I find it difficult to believe you think it [evolution] explains” anything.
Looking after your children is not driven by morals? I suppose it could be argued that it is driven by love, rather than morals.
I don’t even think animals love in the same way humans do. Often once they’re ‘out of the nest’ they’re on their own. It could also be driven by the desire to see your progeny survive.
Certainly most animals’ morals would differ from most humans’ morals in some respects. But I know I’ve looked after a dog who knew he wasn’t allowed on the carpet, and when I caught him, he looked guilty as sin and walked back to the wooden floor looking very ashamed.
Maybe he was a ‘Christian’ dog?
But I agree that dogs perhaps develop closer relationships with us than most other animals do.
The desire to please their master isn’t necessarily a moral choice – I mean, if he disobeyed you he isn’t exactly sinning.
Scientists announced the completion of their mission on 25 February 2009.[5] Modern-day remote-sensing technology revealed a very jagged landscape.[5] The gathered data will be analysed by researchers in the following months.[5] Dr Fausto Ferraccioli from the British Antarctic Survey said: “We can confirm they are there; we’ve seen them under the ice. Not only are they similar in dimension to the European Alps, but they are also similar in aspect: we see very sharp peaks and valleys which are remarkably similar to the Alps themselves. It all adds to the mystery – from the tectonic perspective of how these mountains were created; and from the glacial history perspective of how the East Antarctic ice sheet was formed and didn’t erode these peaks.“[5]
Genesis 19 –
” 30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I lay with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today. ”
Kris K -
Is there any moral teaching to be taken from this, or is it history, which isn’t often moral; as opposed to the teaching of Jesus, which I’d think is moral.
Do a backup first. Just get an external hard drive and copy and paste all of the important files and photos etc.
Then do as ‘Right Now’ says. System Restore is there for a reason, however you should disable any Antivirus Programs running and pull the Internet first. After System Restore enable Security. You will get the Windows/Microsoft Updates, so do a Custom Install with these.(there is no need for IE updates if you use Firefox) Just click the ‘do not ask again’ box.
Internet connection can be many things. Is the Hard Drive getting full? The error you mention points to this.
Almost impossible to fix over a blog lol, but those are some basic guidelines.
Just a thought, did someone click one of those ‘Scan your PC for Free’ things? If they did you could be in for a clean install.
Kris K -
Is there any moral teaching to be taken from this, or is it history, which isn’t often moral; as opposed to the teaching of Jesus, which I’d think is moral.
I’m glad you raised this.
That old chestnut; incest in the Old Testament.
You have to ask when and why did God institute a law condemning incest to understand this.
Now I believe there were a literal Adam and Eve. Obviously their sons, Cain and Seth, had to marry someone. The only solution is that they married sisters, nieces, etc.
Now come forward to Lot’s time. His own uncle and aunt, Abraham and Sarah, were in fact half brother and sister. So today we would condemn Lot and all these individuals of incest.
But the law against incest only came about around the time when Moses received the ten commandments. As we know, Moses is a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and in fact lived quite a while after Jacob.
Incest only condemned from this point forward:
Lev 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
Lev 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. …
Lev 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
So while incest is condemned today, it was not prior to when Moses delivered it in Leviticus 18.
The biological reason is that prior to Moses the gene pool was sufficiently pure to have no subsequent harmful genetic mutations which we would suffer if incest were permitted today. One needs only consider the inbreeding and related health risks that some of the European royal families suffered due to marriage between close family members.
I am truly grateful for whoever sussed out the RIP add-ons, philu plus another few assorted morons have been removed from my kiwiblog experience permanently. A sincere thanks.
As a sidenote, what a rare display of test cricket competence by us… good stuff
The downside is that a certain frequent poster has a falloff in the negative-karma count.
Looks like the mercurial Black Caps are putting together a good performance though, hoping that the inconsistency-bug will be debugged this test.
OK, Kris – put yourself in Lot’s place; what would YOU do?
I am what you would call an atheist and I know, without the need for gods, that the right thing to do is to protect my guests and my daughters.
I think it was a Clayton’s choice. If the angels hadn’t intervened then the sodomites outside would have broken the door down and had their way with whosoever they chose. I believe Lot knew this – he was likely trying to buy time.
Pete George 4:54 pm,
Really? You wouldn’t try to protect your children above all else, let alone for a couple of strangers?
“Hey, these are me mates, leave ‘em alone, fuck my daughters!” I’m a bit stunned.
As my answer above to MNIJ, Pete.
Lot basically had no choice. What do you do when you have absolutely no options, Pete?
The way our society is going someone will no doubt be confronted with exactly this predicament in the near future, if it hasn’t happened already somewhere.
The people who did in your computer are probably from the SIS. But because you have nothing to hide you shouldnt feel pissed off.
Just patriotic New Zealanders doing their thing to get rid of Lefties and List MP’s.
So while incest is condemned today, it was not prior to when Moses delivered it in Leviticus 18.
The biological reason is that prior to Moses the gene pool was sufficiently pure to have no subsequent harmful genetic mutations which we would suffer if incest were permitted today. One needs only consider the inbreeding and related health risks that some of the European royal families suffered due to marriage between close family members.
Wouldn’t it be just easier to design the human genome in a way that makes it less vulnerable to inbreeding. Afterall, a lot of island bird-species manage quite well with a high level of homogeneity. That way you could bypass the whole incest-is-ok, now-i-isn’t problem.
Kris K – your answers intrigue me, so do you have something to contribute on a question which has always puzzled me:
Why did Judas have to betray Jesus with a kiss, supposedly to identify him to the authorities, who must surely been totally clued up on who they were going to arrest?
Posters obsessing on one poster to the extent of performing RIP, yet STILL coming on here and talking about him. Just who is the victor in this little contest?
The mad creationist having a field day denying science that is inconvenient to his beliefs. Note Belief n. esp without proof.
Of course, a belief backed up by evidence becomes fact. I don’t live in fear of that happening anytime soon
Then the climate change deniers are still desperately clinging on to out of context quotes from stolen emails while the rest of the world heads to Copenhagen.
And then there is Hurf Durf quoting a scientist supposedly applying long range climate models to monsoons, yet these models are based on long term averages and are not suitable for analysing or predicting individual extreme events. As the experts inform us:
Changes in climate extremes are expected as the climate warms in response to increasing atmospheric greenhouse gases resulting from human activities, such as the use of fossil fuels. However, determining whether a specific, single extreme event is due to a specific cause, such as increasing greenhouse gases, is difficult, if not impossible, for two reasons: 1) extreme events are usually caused by a combination of factors and 2) a wide range of extreme events is a normal occurrence even in an unchanging climate. Nevertheless, analysis of the warming observed over the past century suggests that the likelihood of some extreme events, such as heat waves, has increased due to greenhouse warming, and that the likelihood of others, such as frost or extremely cold nights, has decreased
Furthermore, the report is quoted as sourced from The Telegraph, which is actually The Telegraph India, not the UK version. Nothing against India, but I wonder if this is deliberate misleading? And in fact, given the track record of the denial industry, is the whole passage quoted out of context?
After all, earlier I posted a Bible passage showing that Jesus clearly advocated stoning children to death, only to be informed that the proper context was that he was opposed to this practice.
Meanwhile, the leader of the free world has announced emissions reductions targets (initially, roughly in line with ours, effectively zero, but it’s the gesture that counts), and delegations from 192 countries and their assorted hundreds of “experts”, NGO’s by the truckload, MSM and not-so-MSM are all heading to the only show in town.
Don’t you guys ever get just a teensy, eensy bit lonely with all this shouting in the wilderness?
Wouldn’t it be just easier to design the human genome in a way that makes it less vulnerable to inbreeding. Afterall, a lot of island bird-species manage quite well with a high level of homogeneity. That way you could bypass the whole incest-is-ok, now-i-isn’t problem.
Indeed.
And it was … originally (man and all creatures’ genomes) prior to sin corrupting it.
As a Christian I believe the errors started accumulating after Adam and Eve sinned until it became unsafe to allow marriage between close relatives.
We see similar issues arising where the gene pool is restricted amongst various species within the animal kingdom. Inbreeding within certain pedigree dog sub groups and some race horses, etc would be examples of artifical gene pool restrictions. I know some NZ native birds which were on the brink of extinction, and were then brought back, have issues about lack of genetic variation. And this is a concern to those involved in breeding them back.
PS I liked your Jesus Bird photo earlier – quite ‘on topic’.
Prisons are full, however Rudith says the Courthouse will do, while the public get ready for open mayhem in the inner city. The judges will get rolled at the Masonic meetings.
FFS what a brain dead bunch of thicko’s these bluecoats are. Maybe big blouse could Crush a braincell?
“Is there any moral teaching to be taken from this [Story of Lot]”
Yvette, you’ve hit on the most critical story in the Bible.
Lot was in fact a bad man, what father would give up his daughters to be raped? And then later on he takes the best land for himself while Abraham is left with the dregs. He deserved to die in Sodom but G-d spared him at Abraham’s behest.
Underlining their flawed lineage, his daughters prove they were equally bad: what daughter sleeps with their father?
They gave birth to a bastard: the Moabite Chieftan. The world has been a troubled place ever since and it continues today. The Moabites are still with us.
Kris K – your answers intrigue me, so do you have something to contribute on a question which has always puzzled me:
Why did Judas have to betray Jesus with a kiss, supposedly to identify him to the authorities, who must surely been totally clued up on who they were going to arrest?
I believe Judas’ kiss was the ultimate act of betrayal by one of the inner circle; one of the twelve disciples. Why Judas chose this method to identify Christ is beyond me. But forever the name Judas will be associated with betrayal.
Perhaps the fact that Christ had always slipped through the fingers of the pharisees, etc up to that time was the reason they wanted Him identified immediately prior to His capture. The real reason they were successful, of course, was that Christ ‘allowed’ himself to be taken. Just as He allowed Himself to be crucified. Satan thought he had won a great victory, but it was Christ’s death on behalf of mankind that was the real victory:
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Nice chatting, but I gotta go – our weekly Bible study calls.
This could be indicative of what a lot of the MSM think of climate change and the relative importance of the CRU release.
Climate of denial
Researchers show how not to respond to global warming skeptics.
By our reckoning — and that of most scientists, policymakers and almost every government in the world — the probability that the planet will warm in the long term because of human activity is extremely high, and the probability that allowing it to do so unabated will have disastrous effects is unacceptably large. The case that governments should hedge against that outcome is formidable enough. Climate scientists should not let themselves be goaded by the irresponsibility of the deniers into overstating the certainties of complex science or, worse, censoring discussion of them.
Jeez reid, Kris K looks positively cool-as-sane besides the lot your link sent me too!
Pete, I agree with that post. The job of scientists is to do the science, not become advocates. However, they are humans as dependent on this planet as the rest of us and if they “can see it so clearly now”, we have to cut them a little slack, surely.
Anyway, for the deniers, your most common questions will be answered on RNZ at 8.40pm tonight. Do yourself a favour, and tune in. Also, soon is the third in a BBC series on relations between Islam and Judaism. The first two have been very informative and given me cause to rethink a couple of aspects on the ME muddle, for sure. You can also track down the episodes on BBC radio.
After that I gotta watch the latest episode of Democracy Now!
“Anyway, for the deniers, your most common questions will be answered on RNZ at 8.40pm tonight. Do yourself a favour, and tune in. ”
Another commie with tainted information sources. RNZ?? For fuck’s sake. when did they ever have a clue about anything?? Bunch of knuckle dragging progressives mired in last century’s left wing fantasies.
What are you people doing here with so much utterly worthless left wing crap????
Tut tut Red. I posted that as an example, not as gospel. Anyway, we need something here to balance your extreme right propaganda. Look back a few days for the details on RIP. It would be good if you blocked everything that smelled of commie. That could be a win win.
Would you believe it – this is true, in the garage I have several hammers, and also two sickles, one I broke and the other doesn’t have a handle, but they look the part.
What are you people doing here with so much utterly worthless left wing crap????
We’ve been missing you herding us towards all your useless right wing crap. We have been blogging unguided and unabused in the wilderness. Will such sins ever be forgiven? Doesn’t look like it, hell has returned.
Well no Pete quite a few politicians don’t agree with Anthropogenic global warming and i do believe thousands of scientists have disagreed with the claims made by global warming alarmists not to mention the plethora of blogs, small to medium newspapers and T.V networks that have shown skepticism.
I’m quite sure they will be safe with the majority.
Pete a question for you from you link to the Washington Post
Climate of denial
Researchers show how not to respond to global warming skeptics.
See how the headline reads “Climate of Denial” doesn’t that imply that the headline writer has a dog in this fight and is not neutrally reporting a dustup from the world of science?
And then we get ” Researchers show how not to respond to global warming skeptics.”
So why are those who have had their Emails leaked “Researchers” whereas those who are challenging these gentlemen global warming skeptics even though in many cases they are equally qualified scientists and in my biased view more scientific since skepticism in fact is the default position of all good scientists.
Indeed more than anything else about this whole sorry saga it is the crushing of skepticism and dissent from the party line on Global Warming that is the most troubling
The Liberal Party is in turmoil with the resignations of five frontbenchers from their portfolios this afternoon in protest against the emissions trading scheme.
Tony Abbott, Sophie Mirabella, Tony Smith and Senators Nick Minchin and Abetz have all quit their portfolios because they cannot vote for the legislation.
Re Big Bruv at 6.49: “…If you want to see the tragic results of inbreeding you only need visit Christchurch…”
Aren’t you the leftist always on about racism etc Big Bruv? Wouldn’t be because Christchurch is predominantly pakeha that you slander it, would it Big Bruv? Of course not, you are a vigorous opponent of such prejudice.
As a Christchurcher I can say the quality of the average citizen has declined in recent years, as riff-raff northerners drift in, attracted chiefly by vast Christchurch Council subsidised housing available as well as to poor locals, these choice settlers from round the country: ex jailbirds, the families who came south to visit them in prison, the drug addicts, itinerant burglars and the mentally ill our post-Christian society otherwise fails to shelter.
As for inbreeding, Maori arrived in only a few canoes, and it was around five centuries before new genes were added. If it weren’t for the addition of pakeha genes, they would be easily the most inbred people in the country and one of the most inbred in the world.
Like the birds Chthoniid mentions at 6.15, Maori came through okay. The Japanese gene pool for centuries was similarly isolated though the population was much bigger of course. They seem to be okay, too.
Theodore Dalrymple (Anthony Daniels) former general-practice psychiatrist and prison doctor in Britain, reported some sad outcomes of the common forced marriages between first cousins in the British-resident Pakistani community, but who knows what other factors were involved.
” Researchers show how not to respond to global warming skeptics.”
Yes, they are researchers at CRU.
Those against climate change are a small minority. And of those most aren’t scientific researchers.
“Global warming skeptic” is an inaccurate term anyway. All climate scientists should be global warming skeptics. The minority view is more like “those who don’t think climate change is a problem”.
“Public Address is the blog equivilent of felching. ”
It makes my skin crawl to read it. So much arrogant Progressive horseshit. So much patronising sneering.
A change I do detect is that they seem to be adapting a siege mentality.
As the western world awakens from its disastrous engagement with Progressivism, the kind of people who can be found frequenting ideological rust buckets like Public Address are going to be under a lot of political pressure. They can’t argue, so they withdraw to the bunkers.
The amount of scorn they heap on the Tea Party movement and Glenn Beck is atrocious. If they only took the time to listen to the other side, they might find something there that could change their thinking. But they won’t dare. The arrogance is ingrained and they can’t help themselves.
As the scorpion said to the frog after he had stung him while the frog was carrying him across the river, (thereby condemning them both to death) – “Its my nature”.
Those against climate change are a small minority.
Not so this is a classic example of the Goebbels maxim tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth
And of those most aren’t scientific researchers.
What makes someone a scientific research? This is an example of language redefinition – many of these researchers are indeed scientists, what the shouters will say is they are not “climate scientists” ie not in the priesthood which through chinese whispers becomes they are ill informed amateurs.
Still if you want to be led like a sheep to slaughter by agenda driven junk science what can I do or anybody else do?
If they only took the time to listen to the other side, they might find something there that could change their thinking. But they won’t dare. The arrogance is ingrained and they can’t help themselves.
That wouldn’t happen to be the same Met Office that forecast a “barbecue Summer” for the last English summer only to have it turn out to be one of the coldest and wettest on record would it Pete?
Although the Met Office was pilloried after forecasting a “barbecue summer”, it was their rainfall forecast, not the projected temperatures, that was wrong.
I know it’s been said before but, damn, it’s nice to have phool and Puke and the moderate centre left silenced. Is there a RIP for reality? I’d even be happy with a mute button.
Enjoy having a thumbs up surplus from now on, guys! Looks like you will be able to hide the decline!
Poor Pete, I’m really starting to feel sorry for you now, South Island and all…….
Have you looked at the emails Pete?
How about the 100′s of documents?
Be honest.
If you haven’t maybe you should just zip it on this subject for a few days and let things play. You seem like a reasonably decent chap so I’m just giving you a heads up, take it or leave it.
The emails are personally damaging to the top 5 or 6 ‘Climate Scientists’ in the world. From what some pretty smart people are saying the documents section is going to go a lot wider than that.
This is just CRU. I’m sure they’ll be inundated with FOI requests in the next few weeks not only confirming these emails and documents are genuine but also requests for the many gems referred to in the documents. Do you think Professor Jones will be trying to play games this time?
Then NASA, NOAA and all the other major players will be getting similar requests in their respective countries. I don’t think these agencies will risk playing games either.
I’m sure there will be some OIA’s filed to NIWA tomorrow too. In fact it looks as though NZ is going to be used to try and reverse engineer the ‘adjustments’ that these ‘scientists’ have been using to inflate temperatures. Someone pointed out that NIWA may have been adjusting the temps and then CRU was as well.
All in all Pete, the science behind this stuff isn’t looking too crash hot.
Hurf, I’m still waiting for your explanation of the “moderate centre left.”
And I fail to see how I have been silenced. Kiwiblog is not ranked a top blog for the number of contributors, but for its visitors. Personally, I think they mainly come to watch a freak show, as I did for quite a while before I decided that the odd sane person here needed support.
And your idea of RIP for reality is just so apt, for you. Perfect, in fact. You don’t seem to live in it!
The next time someone whimpers ‘taken out of context’ in a lame attempt to discredit these emails, mention that a good number of them combine to describe an entire story in simple, chronological detail. An example is here – Willis Eschenbach’s account of his FOI request.
by stevemcinty
Willis Eschenbach’s account of his FOI request has been published on other blogs (e.g. here ) but I’m re-publishing it because Willis actually sent it to me first and the events all played out and were documented in real time at Climate Audit (see here for posts on FOI). After pursuing matters until April 2007, Willis gave up. The next part of the story started again in June 2009 when I decided to try again for the station data, this time initially requesting station data received by the Hadley Center (on the basis that they might not be able to assert exemptions claimed by Hadley Center. ) This, of course, led to an interesting sequence of events last summer, resulting in the present situation.
In the Climategate Letters, early on, Phil Jones expressed his worry that McKitrick and I might discover this legislation. In fact, it was Willis who discovered that the applicability of the legislation. Thus, his story below. This is one perspective and an interesting one.
Note that the story picks up in Para 3 with Eschenbach’s commentary.
The science isn’t settled. It was never science to start with.
How can you “settle” science? Is that what they said when the Origin of the Species was published? Is that what they said when the germ theory was suggested?
Mick Kelly and Aeree Kim (CRU, ENV) met with Robert Kleiburg (Shell International’s climate change team) on July 4th primarily to discuss access to Shell information as part of Aeree’s PhD study (our initiative) and broader collaboration through postgrad. student project placements (their initiative), but Robert was also interested in plans for the Tyndall Centre (TC). What ensued was necessarily a rather speculative discussion with the following points emerging.
1.Shell International would give serious consideration to what I referred to in the meeting as a ‘strategic partnership’ with the TC, broadly equivalent to a ‘flagship alliance’ in the TC proposal. A strategic partnership would involve not only the provision of funding but some (limited but genuine) role in setting the research agenda etc.
Kinda puts all that ‘in the pay of big oil’ into focus, don’t it?
Luc – not sure why but whenever I read your…..um….comments I keep thinking of a great comment by JC over at the Dimpost the other day. Went something like -
Science itself might stand, but the process followed, to form the very basis of our accepted understanding of climate change, wasn’t science. It was a sham.
One of the foundational components of the scientific method is the idea of reproducibility (Popper 1959). In order for an experiment to be considered valid it must be replicated. This process begins with the scientists who originally performed the experiment publishing the details of the experiment.
This description of the experiment is then read by another group of scientists who carry out the experiment, and ascertain whether the results of the new experiment are similar to the original experiment. If the results are similar enough then the experiment has been replicated. This process validates the fact that the experiment was not dependent on local conditions, and that the written description of the experiment satisfactorily records the knowledge gained through the experiment. From Rand and Wilensky 2006
The Jones et al perversion of the peer review process is an unethical disgrace, and calls in to question the reliability of all previous research published by these guys.
Full inquiry now. And a criminal investigation into FOI actions.
I wonder how many of the pro AGW papers have their heritage in ‘data’ and/or ‘findings’ of these fraudsters at the CRU? Quite a few I should expect. It would make for an interesting dependency analysis.
Most people think the anti-smacking bill is a crock of shit. According to Luc logic, we should scrap the whole thing because the people are on the side of it. Yes, I like that logic.
Most people in the west -OUTSIDE THE USA – thought invading Iraq was a very bad idea. Don’t you remember the huge demos throughout the western world (I went on one).
We are not talking here about a general majority, we are talking an overwhelming majority of experts. And this majority is being swamped by fuckwits who think reading a few articles by conspiracy theorists makes them experts in climate change.
Sorry mate, I know we agree on lots, but this is too serious to wallow in egalitarianism.
Think of it like this: your heart surgeon says you need a transplant; are you going to hit the streets and take a vox pop?!
“We are not talking here about a general majority, we are talking an overwhelming majority of experts.”
What a load of shit!!
What the hell is an overwhelming majority of experts? What makes them so? Who proves they are experts? What makes their opinion more acceptable than the general majority?
Count on it. His first kid is a fuck-up by his own admission, no doubt the leftist thought that twisted Luc’s mind ended up destroying Luc Junior 1. Hopefully Luc Junior 2 realises this quickly and gets out early.
Hey Inventory2
Why should you take thrill from the efforts of Bond?
WTF has it got to do with you? yeah “basker in the glory light of others’ achievements”
The quote from ‘Harry’ is from HARRY_READ_ME (which I think will become the most famous computer file ever in the next few months). Harry is the guy trying to sort out the Dataset and modeling software. ‘Harry’ has a Phd and is an expert Climate Scientist. Poor ‘Harry’ thinks the dataset is ‘completely useless’. ‘Harry’ also notes in this document how he has been ordered to insert made up data to get closer to the model. I shit you not.
Maybe you need to do a little more research Luc
The full file is up on multiple torrents. Have look for yourself. Have a look at the entire email strings and see if they’re out of context. Have a look in the docs at HARRY_READ_ME. Go on I dare ya.
It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes. The challenge, rather, appears to be how to effectively communicate this fact to policy makers and to a public that continues to mistakenly perceive debate
among scientists
I understand the nuance of deleting emails to prevent them being released under a Freedom of Information request.
“waaaaaaaaaah all dey wont to do iz poke holes in it,” yeah, testing your theory is sort of the point. Eco-socialists yelling THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED is hardly that.
You’ve read the emails? How are they used out of context then? Please explain. Just cite the email # you’re talking about and we’ll have a look at it, OK?
You’ve read the documents? What did you think of HARRY_READ_ME. Devastating isn’t it? Shows conclusively, in their own words, that they made the data fit the ‘models’. Is that how you think science should work?
Anyway, the kids will be up a 6am so I better try and get a bit of shuteye.
I think I’ll make you my ‘special’ friend Luc, you seem so smart and all.
Luc
However, attempts to quantify
the scientific consensus on anthropogenic
warming have met with criticism.
For instance, Oreskes [2004] reviewed 928
abstracts from peer-reviewed
research
papers and found that more than 75%
either explicitly or implicitly accepted
the consensus view that Earth’s climate
is being affected by human activities.
Yet Oreskes’s approach has been criticized
for overstating the level of consensus
acceptance within the examined
abstracts [Peiser, 2005] and for not capturing
the full diversity of scientific opinion
[Pielke, 2005]. A review of previous
attempts at quantifying the consensus and
criticisms is provided by Kendall Zimmerman
[2008]. The objective of our study
presented here is to assess the scientific
consensus on climate change through
an unbiased survey of a large and broad
group of Earth scientists.
An invitation to participate in the survey
was sent to 10,257 Earth scientists.
So the paper you was contentuous and only sent to 10,257 Earth scientists.
Looking at the fraud now discovered who can believe that crap?
It was obviously slanted from the start.
The whole credibility of climate change is now in doubt.
Let the unbiased data flow!!
I downloaded the 63MB from wikileaks and saw the £5M grant to the Rus for the field trips. Then I saw the claim of credibility because the Rus corroborated – hence the Raw deletions did not matter.
Then I realised that this was big.
“But that’s not about the science, it’s about paranoia. There is a difference.”…exactly Luc its not about science..its about the climate scientists creating an atmosphere of fear..thats the difference..dont forget these emails and documents were not from just “scientists” but from the “leading climate scientists” who essentially defined the paradigm(AGW),and as a we all know some of the greatest scientitific discoveries have come from scientists who have challanged the accepted paradigm..
So, we now have a law that disallows anyone from defending themselves in court against any changes where they have been provoked beyond their mental capacity to cope with any abuse, mental or physical.
The only MP’s to oppose the removal of the defense of provocation were the ACT MP’s.
The rest of the slimeballs colluded to usurp hundreds of years of legal argument that forms the case history of law. A totally predictable, emotional reaction to one high profile murder.
Appalling but not surprising.
Apparently it was to save the gays and women according to Charles Chauvell.
Provocation defense gone
Friday, 27, Nov, 2009 12:01AM
The partial defense of provocation can no longer be used in court.
MPs, sitting under urgency, have passed the Crimes Provocation Repeal Amendment Bill into law by 116 votes to five.
ACT was the only party to vote against the law change.
Labour’s Charles Chauvel told ACT’s MPs that opposing the bill was an insult to the victims of violent crime. Mr Chauvel said they should be ashamed for sanctioning a defense that legitimizes violence against gay men and against women.
Where was Findlayson who is supposed to stand up for the integrity of the law making process. He should resign forthwith as should all the other lawyers that sit in that house and supported this legislation. Appalling.
Before you all beat me up, no women or man that is driven to that point by another individual now has any defense no matter how heinous the provocation. Think about that.
Perhaps read each of these 450 PEER-REVIEWED PAPERS SUPPORTING SKEPTICISM OF AGW
Skepticism of AGW and climate change is healthy. How many peer reviewed papers are there in total on the topic?
If Anthony Watt is having is having a balanced look at it he will have surely collated them too? But that’s not likely, the policy adviser to the Science and Public Policy Institute is Monckton, and the institute financed the film Apocalypse No. So this is more likely to be one sided.
“While the SPPI seems primarily to be the work of Robert Ferguson, it also features on it website the work of other prominent climate change skeptics who are involved with one or more other anti-Kyoto treaty groups.”
And yes, the source is important, it puts the balance (or imbalance) into context.
Labour, the Greens and the Maori Party supported the repeal bill and there were cries of “shame” when Act MP David Garrett said his party opposed it.
Alternate Ad Image Text Goes Here!
Mr Garrett said the central point in the Weatherston case was that the defence failed.
“Abolishing it suggests we don’t trust juries,” he said.
The repeal shifted the argument of provocation from juries to judges, who can consider it in sentencing.
“It makes more sense to put our trust in juries,” he said.”
450 PEER-REVIEWED PAPERS SUPPORTING SKEPTICISM OF AGW
let’s just look at the first 10. 1. Nothing skeptical about AGW in Loehle’s article. Not one word. 2. is a correction to 1. Double-counting 3. Opinion piece by Balling in the AAPG’s journal. Not peer-reviewed. 4. First real peer-reviewed paper. Considering the authors, expect major flaws. 5. Article in 2000 from E&E. NOT peer-reviewed. 6. Not ‘skeptical’ of AGW in the WUWT-sense. 7. Commentary of Boehmer-Christiansen. Peer-reviewed? Doubtful 8. Valid entry number 2. 9. LOL. Comment on comment to paper #8. In a sense double counting, and those comments are usually not peer-reviewed 10. Even more LO. Correction to paper #8. Triple counting!
Interesting, isn’t it? In the first 10 already so many problems. Also interesting: They refer to Zeebe et al, which isn’t even close to critical of AGW. It only notes that with the accepted climate sensitivity to CO2, there wasn’t enough CO2 to explain the observed temperature increase during the PETM. In other words, it argues that other forcings must have been present, or the climate sensitivity to CO2 is LARGER than currently accepted…
November 26th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Lies
November 26th, 2009 at 8:09 am
pleassssse..no climate change or obama shite today….
November 26th, 2009 at 8:09 am
It is about time that NZ Cricket told this fat drunken thug to piss off.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/3097641/Jesse-Ryder-angers-neighbours
Why do we keep making excuses for this deplorable behaviour?.
[DPF: I agree. One chance too many]
November 26th, 2009 at 8:12 am
starboard – too bad, so sad . . . .
National’s ETS is riddled with privileged deals for particular groups of polluters and will load enormous costs on to future generations of taxpayers.
Hone may still believe, but no longer feel free to openly express, the opinion that pakeha over the years have disadvantaged Maori, but now in power his Maori Party have, apart for a few élite, have played a major part IN DOING IT TO THEMSELVES.
Pita Sharples says many in the Party disagreed with the ETS, but passed it because of their integrity having said they will support National. What sort of integrity was that Sharples?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:13 am
“nooooooooooooooooo”…..
November 26th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Indeed big bruv – how many “last chances” will he get? Ryder quite obviously is a couple of sandwiches short of a cut lunch if he does not realise that he cannot be both a professional sportsman and a party animal.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Yes, climate shite, and another one of Glenn Beck’s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCwUTdR8qfY&feature=player_embedded
We must keep pushing until someone starts listening.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:21 am
starboard – ““nooooooooooooooooo”…..”
Actually my point is not the ETS [that's only in passing] it’s really about the Maori Party without Hone betraying their people.
Oh . . . and the rest of us . . .
November 26th, 2009 at 8:22 am
pleassssse..no climate change or obama shite today
Don’t you want to be reminded that you have been shafted?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Totally random bird photo unrelated to climate change for starboard
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p629524801-5.jpg
Extra points if you know what it is. (Yes, those feet are real).
November 26th, 2009 at 8:24 am
hey..TT and PS are in it only to line their filthy pockets….baubles and all that…
November 26th, 2009 at 8:25 am
That’s what we have come to as a country.
Run by liars.
1. The Dean and convocation of the country’s premier university refuse to address the lying of one of it’s professors whilst calling for it’s students to be truthful and honest and to act with integrity when writing work.
Said lying to be the 2nd occurrence known of and containing at least 16 lies that we and they know of.
2. Our Prime Minister is happy to make deals that affect our country’s landscape with no reference to parliament nor opportunity to dialogue what is clearly a very important issues in the life of New Zealand.
One of the core reasons we turfed the last lot out was their use of urgency to fullfill their agenda without regard for the house and the people we elected there to discuss the important matters that concern us.
3. The same Prime Minister ignores the clear call from over 80% of voters to change a law they never wanted but is happy to acquiesce to 6000 others roaring up to parliament on another.
Fair dealings he called for during his opposition and in campaign mode, methinks not.
4. The same Prime Minister is basing our economic future on a lie based on faulty or altered science which is now being brought into the light by a whistle blower for all the world to see.
5. Investers are getting rorted left right and center yet no one goes to jail and seem to wiggle out of their mayhem and our regulatory bodies keep doing lunch saying we have a good economy.
6. Thousands of home owners are sitting with leaking buildings and our Prime Minister aren’t taking responsibility for the law changes and rules they the politicians changed around building that led to the debacle.
Are we deserving of this?
They say you get the government you deserve, are we such liars and crooks that we deserve this in our leading institutions?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:30 am
starboard – “hey..TT and PS are in it only to line their filthy pockets….baubles and all that…”
That’s almost what Titiwhai said on Radio Live a couple of days back. Is her boy Hone going to re-join them?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Spot on MikeNZ. And I do notice that precisley this feeling is now going on all around the world, whatever government is in power. I sense a groundswell that many people are just so sick of politicians, that it just doesn’t matter anymore what you vote for, you’re being shafted anyway. Time for revolution, time to put firm and solid and unmutable constitutions in place and time to make sure that those are complied with. In short, it’s time WE THE PEOPLE take control again and deport all these socialist liers from the entire world (of all denominations) to an island where they can have conferences all day long as much as they like, but where they also have to produce their own sustenance. That might make them understand that there is a difference between political expediency and the real world.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:39 am
They just can’t help themselves –
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6517130/national-mp-makes-most-of-allowance-arrangement/
So while we have DonKey promising to clean up the allowance bullshit we have yet another grubby little piggy with his grubby little snout in the trough.
Sure there has probably been nothing illegal done here, it’s just yet another case of the taxpayer freshening the branches on the money tree.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Viking posted this Hide speech on yesterday’s GD:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_25_november_2009.html#comment-635931
Sounds reasonable apart from him going on a bit much about it being an excellent and very good and good government (covering his coalition arse?), and the irony of the ETS not being costed properly before being rushed through (supercity?).
Also heard him being interviewed on NatRad this morning, came across well enough. I have renewed respect for him, especially as he seems to have learnt from his errant ways.
I won’t always agree with him but he seems to be back on the right track.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:48 am
big bruv, yes, quite…. but what an idiot the silly woman is!
“Her partner spoke to Ryder about the vomit. He apologised and pulled his friend inside. But the partying continued the next weekend. She had not called council noise control and did not want to bother police.”
If you are constantly annoyed by neighbours’ behaviour then the best thing would be to give them one warning and then call both the noise control AND the police constantly every time they continue the behaviour. He would soon get the message.
“Did not want to bother the police…!” Twit.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:53 am
At least it’s good to see a respectable first innings total in the test. Fine and blustery in Dunedin, should be good for a full day’s play. Won’t be much fun in the field though.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Wake up Ryder you are an alcoholic and need to stay away from any booze at all if you want to get back into cricket.
I suggest training with the sevens team to get that weight off boy, at least that way you will have very good reason to vomit.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:59 am
dimmocrazy good idea lad, you grab your pitchfork and head for Wellington.
But you have to ask yourself one question, would those hories in the NZ army slot right wingers ?
November 26th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Maybe they are starting to get serious about it.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Mikenz and Dimmocrazy;
For nine years I was angered by the efforts of the “chlitorati” but now John Key is making them look good.
I expect National’s popularity to plunge.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:12 am
yeah but he’s clever..get all the shitty things done in the first 12-18 months…the following 18 months out comes the good news including tax cuts again…even tougher on scum offenders ya dee ya…stupid joe public falls hook line and sinker…Nats back in again. He’s gone from a 10 in my book to a 3.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:17 am
@starboard
Who would be better?
Scary thought
November 26th, 2009 at 9:25 am
good question…we’ve run outa candidates…whats there are all bent…Michaeal Laws / Garth McVicar say all the right things they would be a competent duo…ooohhh wait til all the hand wringers read that !!
November 26th, 2009 at 9:35 am
All will soon be revealed, they think the Inquiry will only go for about a year.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Is nobody talking about Wikileaks today?
Would you like to read pages and pages of pager intercepts from 9/11?
http://911.wikileaks.org/
It’s fairly compelling reading. A lot of people assuring each other that they’re safe, etc.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Re Chthoniid’s 8.23 post: Another excellent picture!
Thought we would never guess what bird it was? Ho-bloody-ho!
It’s Helenus Clarkii, a bird famed for fooling other birds and predators that it can walk on water, but has been observed and photographed only slowly sinking and never successfully water walking for any useful length of time. It’s thus part of the order ornithologists call slow sinkers. Conjecture is that the slow-sinker walk evolved as a deceit to fool predators into thinking they would never be able to follow and catch such a bird even when it was not flying. Features: exhibits very noisy, inquisitive, domineering, and bullying behaviour towards normal birds. Cultivates subservient flock of hen birds and is known to have taken some on migration across Pacific.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:41 am
What’s happening to our society?
At the time these ‘girls’ were 14 and 17 years old when they murdered John Rowe. Lori-Lea Waiora Te Wini is the second-youngest female convicted of murder.
As a society we seem to apply counselling type solutions after the fact, but what values are these kids being taught to even contemplate murder at age 14. And two girls, GIRLS – not that it’s any better if it had been commited by boys at the same ages. Why is violence, even amongst girls, increasing with our younger members of society? And more importantly, what has changed so dramatically within our society that has resulted in such crimes by young boys and girls?
Is our society essentially a rudderless ship adrift in a morally relativistic sea of despair?
And, assuming yes, how do we get back on track? How do you successfully teach morals?
November 26th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Lance – Bill and Ben?
Leave Jesse Ryder alone – I am sure everyone drank too much and had parties when they were in their early 20s. He is one of the country’s best players, and so long as his boozing isn’t interfering with that (and it’s not), he should be allowed to stay in the team.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:45 am
The US government should enforce Biblical law or God will destroy us says Joseph Farah, publisher of World Net Daily.
So what would the founding fathers, who were wise enough to make the separation of church and state one of the core principles of the United States, make of the attempts by some to fashion the US into a Theocracy.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Gazz – I agree, parties at his private home are his and his neighbours business not that of NZ Cricket. As for the neighbours. They couldn’t be bothered phoning noise control or the police but were happy to talk to the media. They are fuckwits.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:02 am
joe90 9:45 am,
From your link:
Perhaps this ties in to my comment at 9:41 am: Girls found guilty of John Rowe’s murder.
Is the fact that as a society we have deshackled ourselves from Biblical values left us open to increasing “unrighteous behavior”?
Certainly ‘violence’ is one of the above listed ‘consequences’ for divorcing ourselves from God. Would this not show up most amongst young people within our societies? It is my contention that it would.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Re gazzmaniac’s 9.42: “…Leave Jesse Ryder alone –”
Do you turn the other way when a young man harms himself by punching through glass panels?
Do you turn the other way when booze is wrecking such a young man — turn away because he’s an entertaining batsman?
There are more important things than cricket.
Do you encourage your young kids to play cricket if it’s a piss head sport. No, there are plenty of other choices.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Kris,
Those things are consequences of people turning from the Dharma.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Dave Mann:
I’d rather have the police taking care of real police work, rather than chasing down a drunken neighbour with little regard for his community and the people he lives amongst.
She should have called noise control though.
gazz
No. He is a public figure in a country with a binge drinking problem setting a bad example. Time to get real and realise he is just a drunk and needs help, rather than excusing it because he plays cricket.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Joe90
But who’s biblical law?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=116837
I agree god save us from the God botherers who want a theocracy anywhere!
It is free will not coercion through laws that is the mark of a decent person.
That begs the question why do we need laws anyway doesn’t it?
Is there an after life?
Does it means jack shit what we do?
Who cares anyway?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Ryan – Was that Jeffrey Dharma?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Regarding the 9/11 pager WikiLeaks…
That’s quite nice.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:12 am
@Jack5 9:40am
I know it would be difficult but a full taxonomic description would also describe mating and social habits.
Thus:
In complex social settings has been observed hiding behind another bird species (native english duck trevus mallardii) in an apparently cowardly attempt to avoid meeting a hovering migratory species (owenus glenii – a stumpy predator equally at home in Mediterranian and Australasian locations and has been observed in tropical locations such as Fiji’s outer islands) even though said migratory bird habitually gives surplus nest building materials to spp clarkii.
I’ll leave mating habits unsaid as I have just eaten my cornflakes.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Could someone here with some knowledge of cattle help me out. I am looking for a good beef breed for my lifestyle block. Don’t want too many – perhaps two or three. Looking for a good eating animal. I heard that Dexters are pretty good.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:14 am
What can I say. He doesn’t like to be turned from.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Time for a piece of humour. This is the superb Iowahawk, with the transcript for a new documentary on the species homo scientifica.
A brief sample:
Read the whole thing.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:15 am
big bruv (4920) Vote: 5 2 Says:
November 26th, 2009 at 8:09 am
It is about time that NZ Cricket told this fat drunken thug to piss off.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/3097641/Jesse-Ryder-angers-neighbours
Why do we keep making excuses for this deplorable behaviour?.
[DPF: I agree. One chance too many]
But George Best and Ian Botham are legends?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Nobody stopped Shane Warne from being in the Aussie team (apart from that time he took drugs) and he is remembered for his cricketing skill more than his off field antics. What you are advocating is taking away his livelihood, which will certainly not benefit him and will likely make him worse. What you do in your own time is nothing to do with your employer, unless it affects what you do in their time. And having parties on the weekend certainly doesn’t affect his employment.
And sure, there might be top level players boozing and having a party in cricket – it is the same in any sport. Rugby Union, League, Aussie Rules, Soccer, you name it.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Would anybody be so kind as tp point me in the direction of the link gor the greasemonkey add-on? I saw it a few days ago but can’t find it. A philu-free kiwiblog is a chance I cannot miss.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Brian,
Hard to beat Angus or even Angus/Fresian cross which are common (dairy farmers often put a beef bull over the cows that didn’t take AI and sell the resulting calves for beef) and therefore cost effective.
IMHO the flavour and tenderness has a lot to do with the way they are treated and the treatment of the carcase post-slaughter. Having said that there is some recent research that indicates that tenderness has a high genetic correlation even within a breed.
If you want to get really fancy try a Belgian Blue or Charolais but they grow so big you might need only one and therefore the risk factor increases dramatically as you could lose your entire herd if that one gets crook (bloat / FE etc).
November 26th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Brian, I hope you have more success at picking cattle than you did at picking the post time for the GD.
Seems like the DPF is circulating a bit more again.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:23 am
November 26th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Pete george – Yeah – I was about six minutes out today.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:24 am
another aspirational/masterclass for clintoiid..
zhttp://whoar.co.nz/2009/national-geographics-international-photo-contest-photos/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 10:26 am
david – thanks. My wife likes Highland cattle because they look so cute. I am more interested in how many Kg of tasty meat I get off them.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Big Bruv, the only thing “deplorable” about the story you linked to was that it was published in the first place.
A young man throws a party.
So what?
.
Kris K, you seem to think two girls murdering someone is new.
It ain’t. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker-Hulme_murder
And that from times when every child was subject to compulsory god bothering.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:27 am
general thread on the 24th has it..nckb..
off you go now..!
and careful..!
..don’t let the door bash you in the arse on yr way out..eh?..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Ryan Sproull 10:06 am,
I didn’t realise NZ (or the US for that matter) was founded upon Indian spirituality – I thought our historical link was in fact to Christianity, and the God of the Bible.
Do you have historical insight which our history books have in fact left out?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:30 am
tom – awesome, thanks for posting it.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:31 am
nickb – it’s called Remove it Permanently and it’s an addon for firefox. The link is in the GD thread for 24 November.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:35 am
On a media tangent – it appears that it’s not just the NZ lamestream media that are ignoring the CRU shitstorm or giving it the page-23 treatment. Most US media outlets are acting in a similar way.
Unfortunately they cannot control their readers, as the editorial writers of the Houston Chronicle have just found out. They published the usual headline – Hot times: As a crucial climate change conference nears, more evidence of a warming globe – and then got hammered in the comments section.
Newsbusters has a rather funny take on this – although you have to be aware of a famous scene from a famous movie to really get it:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:35 am
The whole article, when boiled down, is a stinking puddle of homophobic bigotry.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Cheers gazz
November 26th, 2009 at 10:37 am
You must agree that we are all humans, and therefore share some qualities common to all?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:37 am
@ Kris K (9.41am) – this was one of the more shocking murders of recent times. A friend of mine is a senior policeman in the BoP region and he told me not long after the arrests were made that his colleagues were absolutely shocked by the level of violence that these girls displayed, and by their complete and utter lack of either remorse, or any insight into what they had done. We’ve certainly become a sick society.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:39 am
If you’ve known any NZ Sporting celebrities, then you’ll know that having drunken parties every weekend is at the mild end of the scale when it comes to own time ‘Antics’
I really do not understand what the big deal is here either. Were Ryders neighbours not aware that they live in the Hutt Valley, and that this kind of behaviour is to be expected?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:40 am
MT_Tinman 10:27 am,
No, not new, but certainly increasing exponentially as of recent years.
Just to highlight again from my earlier comment:
“Lori-Lea Waiora Te Wini is the second-youngest female convicted of murder.”
If that factoid doesn’t concern you, then perhaps our society is just fine (?)
The term, ‘head in the sand’, though, does spring to mind if that’s your view.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Razork
Don’t know about Botham, to me he was always the epitome of the flat track bully.
As for George Best, well I take your point, however, if any sport is going to make excuses for a player because of his extraordinary skill then George Best is the one you would make allowances for.
Ryder is a good cricketer, not great, and far from world class, George Best was arguably the greatest player the world has ever seen.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
We’ve certainly become a sick society.
Was that before or after Parker-Hulme as per MT_Tinman’s post…
edit: well Kris K’s had a go.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:45 am
@Chthoniid: That would be a Comb-crested Jacana, I guess.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Repton was it you that originally posted the RIP add-on?
If so, thank you very much, you have made my kiwiblog far more enjoyable.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:50 am
@Kris K:
Our population is also increasing exponentially…
You blame violence on declining morals? I’m more inclined to blame it on urbanisation and automobiles..
November 26th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Agreed bruv, tear the dickheads contract up.
Far too many chances, he is a buffoon and a liability. Shame he is squandering his prodigious talent.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:52 am
to me he was always the epitome of the flat track bully.
Did they even HAVE flat tracks in the 80s?!
November 26th, 2009 at 10:54 am
There are some cancerous aspects of our society for sure. Best way to deal with them? Cut them out.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Inventory2 10:37 am,
Yeah, the crime was bad enough, but the lack of remorse of the perpetrators is actually more scary, and is perhaps a better indicator of how far our society has plummeted regarding the value we place upon human life.
Are we breeding a generation of psychopaths who cannot relate to, nor care for others or their welfare?
How could anyone take a human life and have no remorse, especially at 14?
I also wonder how much our annual abortion count (~18,500) affects our societal view regarding the sanctity of ALL human life.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Thanks for the link Tom. I love this comment regarding Climategate.
The liberal media barons are flummoxed by the following developments and like the 6 year old who finally realizes there is no Santa Claus, are in deep denial.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Joe, “Separation of church and state” currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant, and what the founding fathers intended. See HERE
Another liberal lie.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:58 am
RIP is great isn’t it?
I haven’t been bothered by Phil for 2 days now. It’s a delight to read the comments again – it’s Kiwiblog like it used to be!
November 26th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Pascal said of Jesse Ryder “He is a public figure in a country with a binge drinking problem setting a bad example. Time to get real and realise he is just a drunk and needs help, rather than excusing it because he plays cricket.”
I agree wholeheartedly. Ryder started his career with Central Districts. He left because he was unable/unwilling to adhere to team protocols on off-field conduct. Rather than deal with his “issues”, he took them elsewhere – to Wellington, and now to the door of NZC. He is a contracted player, and NZC has the right to require him to behave in a manner that does not bring himself, NZC or the game itself into disrepute. Ryder has shown a repeated unwillingness to do that.
Contrast Ryder with Jimmy Cowan. Last season he had two “incidents” whilst on the slops, and was given an ultimatum by the NZRU – deservedly so; shape up or ship out. Cowan has toned own his off-field behaviour, and is now the first-choice All Black halfback.
The SS-T had an article on Ryder last Sunday, and there was a telling quote from Justin Vaughan at NZC:
“Asked if Ryder needed counselling or any other programme to improve his off-field behaviour, Vaughan said: “In the end we could mandate all sorts of things but if Jesse doesn’t want it, it’s going to be futile.”"
Very true words. Ryder has to decide whether his cricketing career is more important to him than his party-boy image. If he does, he has a terrific future in the game. But the choice is his alone.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:00 am
@Repton- yes, it’s also known as the Jesus-Bird for its ability to walk on water. It actually walks on the weeds just below the water surface.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Where are the photos of Courtney Pauline Churchward and Lori-Lea Waiora Te Wini?
I want to see the faces of these callous murderers.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Joe90, and what exactly does homophobia mean? Those who are scared of people who practice homosexual acts?
What about those of us who aren’t scared, but just don’t agree that it’s moral?
November 26th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Repton 10:50 am,
The fact that most of this increase in violent crime has occurred in only the last 20-30 years would give greater creedence to the declining morals within society than your “urbanisation and automobiles” theory. IMHO of course.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Brian, if your land is boggy or wet then cattle will make a hell of a mess. Especially if you don’t have a lot of land to move them around. A couple of cattle in a wet paddock will ruin the pasture in no time. A typical mixed farm would have plenty of paddocks and would keep the cattle off the wet over winter.
The other advantage of miniatures is the logistics. You can transport them on a car trailer with a pen. If you go for full-size then you’d need a yard + race etc and to send them to the works/abattoir you’ll need to get a normal stock truck. You might think you wouldn’t need to move them but you’ll need to sell them, replace them etc and if you run out of feed you might want to move them to a neighbours etc. A cattle beast isn’t a trivial thing and even something as simple as loading them onto a truck can take a few people, lots of work and sturdy yards and race.
Also if you slaughter a large cattle beast you won’t fit it all in your deep freeze and you’ll be esting the thing every day for a year.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Ryan Sproull 10:37 am,
Yes, and I would call that ‘conscience’ (which is given us by our Creator).
But are morals the same as conscience; do our morals source uniquely from our conscience?
Or is our conscience (and therefore our morals) enhanced by additional revelation from our Creator.
It is my contention that they are, and that the additional revelation is found in God’s word; the Bible – upon which our society was originally founded.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Inventory2 “…We’ve certainly become a sick society”
Not me, not my family, and not those who I am happy to call friends. It’s a divide in our society that I think can be characterised as earners and takers. Those who respect the value of earning their way and building value versus those who would rather steal and destroy.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Malcolm – Many thanks. Every bit of information helps. One thing my prop has is a damn fine set of covered yards. The owners we brought off had agreements with other local farmers who use them in exchange for various goods/services. See no reason not to continue the deal. Land is quite dry, and there are cattle grazed on surrounding small-holdings. As far as freezer space goes – I have plenty and have lots of friends who wouldn’t say no to free meat.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Fletch 11:02 am,
… and Fletch, don’t mention that it’s a ‘sin’ as well as being immoral; that gets you labelled as a ‘fundamentalist Christian homophobe’ – they’re much worse that your average garden variety ‘homophobe’.
[I think some of us may already hold that 'title' by those here with opposing views - oh well, kay sera sera.]
November 26th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Agree with you on the earners/takers analysis RightNow. The motive for this crime was apparently to get some money to buy dope. A simple “high” was apparently more important than an elderly man’s life.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Rightnow is right (for now
) – only some of our society is sick (some are takers, some are couldn’t-give-a-stuffers), some of society is ok.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Brian, sounds like a good setup. In which case my only other advice would be that if you don’t have a good idea from the previous owner as to what the land can carry, under-stock until you get a feel for it. You don’t want to get in a situation where you’re having to feed the animals in winter and summer.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Brian Smaller 11:23 am,
When your finally set up, what size herd are you thinking of?
And how large is the farm/holding?
November 26th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Kris just wants to know for carbon tax purposes.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Kris K – bigger than our Lower Hutt section
We currently produce a lot of our own food on our small 600m2 section (why I have no sympathy for lazy fucks who moan about being too poor to buy decent food while living in a State house with a fucking big section). This move is part of a desire to feed ourselves over the years ahead while we are physically capable of doing so. With the move we are aiming at being pretty self-sufficient within two years.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:49 am
What does it mean to you for morals to be “enhanced”?
November 26th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Pete George (2300) 11:36 am,
Bugger, my secret’s out!
And happy ’2300′ Pete, no one even acknowledged my 1000th, sob, sob.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Thanks for the Iowahawk piece, tom hunter, great humour and very cleverly written.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Agree completely Righnow. There was an excellent article on this broad topic after a recent (within the last year or so) murder. I believe it was of Mark McCutcheon, who went to the aid of a woman being bashed by a gang member.
It was titled “the tale of two new Zealand’s” or something. For the life of my I can’t find it on the Herald or Stuff. But the sight of a hardwroking businessman being murdered by gang scum, then his mother (who was an invalids beneficiary) having to be dragged out of court screaming and barking, was en eye-opener
November 26th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Brian Smaller 11:41 am,
Yeah, I have often thought it would be good to approach a farmer and get meat ‘direct’ as home kill, and give him a donation in acknowledgement. I simply refuse to pay supermarket/export prices for good meat. Once you’re set up I may have a chat with you about some such.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Brian – I’m no farmer however a family friend has 4 sheep on his 2 acres and they are fairly easy to raise – they even eat leaves off the trees he trims. Just a thought if cattle get to hard.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
..how good is it not havin to scrawl thru whores crap..
November 26th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I run half a dozen ewes for meat, they are generally easy to handle. Cattle are harder to handle and need better fencing, I have a workmate who has cattle so that’s simple, I just got a half side delivered bagged and frozen. Having the first sample of that (scotch fillet) tonight.
Someone mentioned above – breed affects what the meat is like (diet can too), but it’s important they are killed and hung properly, used a butcher for a while who did everything same day and it was tough as, next butcher hung for a week and it is delicious and tender.
Also aiming to be as self sufficient as possible. I have just finished putting up fence, posts and wires around a garden/berry/cherry orchard and will install bird netting this weekend. I have previously netted individual trees and bushes which is a nuisance. This will be a walk in 20m x 15m fresh feast (I hope).
November 26th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Chthoniid’s bird picture:
1. Repton’s Comb-Crested Jackana … that sort of hits Helenus Clarkii, a female Jackass bird.
2. BUT Chthoniid’s later “Jesus bird”.
Definitely not old Helen. Sorry for my error folks.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Kris K
Agree with your sentiments completely – and that ‘violent youth’ have become a rising-phenomenon in New Zealand over a relatively recent time period.
I would suggest that the time period can be sheeted-home with a reasonable degree of precision to the introduction of the ‘Tomorow’s Schools’ eduction reforms in the late ’80′s, under, I vaguely recall, Labour (though I could be wrong on this).
It was at that point that ‘liberalism’ made its way into the New Zealand education-system and the eager young minds under its liberal-tutorage were taught that it was perfectly natural to be homosexual and lesbian, that maori had been terribly disadvantaged and needed all the help they could get and that education was about equality for all -especially for the poor, neglected, under-privileged (and under-achieving) Maori.
Essentially Tomorrow’s Schools was a very concerted and deliberate ‘dumbing-down’ of what had hither-to been a very good education system, and rather than ‘raising Maori education standards up’ it was decided to bring everything down to the lowest-possible level, so that Maori wouldn’t feel disadvantaged.
(Note: A qualification must, of course, be made here – it wasn’t ALL Maori who needed to be helped, only some, but rather than concentrate on the few and raise their standards for teh long-term good of society at large, the entire system was altered to make the few feel ‘less disadvantaged’).
The fact that, until that time Maori had not actually been disadvantaged or actually felt that they were, was not considered to be in any way relevant as various Maori radicals (those who were trained at Auckland Uni especially) who were speaking for ‘all Maori’ had managed to convince themselves and the government that all Maori were ‘down-trodden and deprived’ and so the policy was implimented.
Coincidental with this was the abolition of corporal punishment, since the ‘baby boomers’ (by now in government) had decided that, since they hadn’t liked receiving hidings from their ex-military fathers (and no, we won’t go there), they would abolish this and everyone would live in an atmosphere of ‘peace and love’ (remember the flower-children?).
(Sue Bradfords’s legislation is the latest manifestaion of this thinking, BTW)
Unfortunately, the genie that they released, combined with mankind’s inherent evil tendencies (and yes, I am a Christian), has resulted in the creation of a generation of children that now has no restraints in respect of violence and absolutely no respect for human life.
Maori-youth, in particular, and with the enthusiastic encouragement of their elders and the radicals in their midst, were encouraged to believe that they were more-special than absolutely anyone else (the Treaty said so) and so-took this ‘liberal message’ to heart, developing a ‘you can’t touch me, I can do what I want – I’m Maori’ stance which is now very evident in our society. This attitude (as reflected by Hone) was reinforced, albeit unintentionally, by the mass-invasion of US (Black) hip-hop music in the early 2000′s, which music was all about being ‘gangsta’, a hero and sticking-it to both society, the cops, and (especially) whitey – the mantra being ‘I am da man and you are nuffin’.
The fact that this attitude has been adopted by those who consider it ‘cool’ to be uneducated has resulted in the creation of an ignorant, semi-literate underclass who, fueled by the desire for ‘bling’ (as per hip-hop) but unable to get it by conventional means (aka ‘work’) resort to the very thing the liberals were trying to avoid by removing corporal punishment – ‘violence’, since if the victim just sits and sings ‘give peace a chance’ while being robbed or beaten-up (as they have been taught to in school), they are an easy mark.
These tendencies, combined with the liberal viewpoints held by the baby-boomers now on the judical benches who still insist on ‘wet bus-ticket’ responses, means that, over-all nothing is going to change any time soon; indeed it will probably become worse, and as Hone is a hero to many, this is not to be wondered at.
The liberals still just sit and wring their hands (certain politicians come to mind immediately), and so . . .
We live in interesting times.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Ryan Sproull 11:49 am,
Kind of gets back to our earlier conversation on ‘absolute objective morals’.
I believe a biblical worldview/values enhances our conscience (and therefore our morals). And that the ‘ultimate’ enhancement occurs when the Spirit of God indwells a person, and the person submits to the Spirit and God’s word.
Sort of a 1-2-3 progression:
1. Conscience (we all have one).
2. Conscience plus following biblical values (perhaps many kiwis fall into this group).
3. Conscience plus the Spirit of God plus following biblical values and God’s word.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Pete George – sounds great. We don’t have too many fruit trees on this property. There are some old fashioned oranges and lemons, and a few apple trees. However, we do have some really nice walnut trees. Sheep will be our second animal choice. First off is getting a chook house up and running. Initially I will just let the neighbour graze his sheep in my paddocks until such time as I buy my own. I have to work full time as well so this will be a work in progress.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
What does it mean in real terms?
For example, could someone go through this?
1. Conscience tells them something is morally wrong.
2. Conscience plus Biblical values tells them something is morally wrong.
3. Conscience plus Spirit of God plus following Biblical values tells them the thing is actually morally right.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Sheep are good lawn mowers, as long as you don’t let it get too long. Sheep prefer shorter grass, cattle prefer to longer.
Got the chooks, nice deep yellow eggs. Chickens are also a deeper colour and have some taste compared to pumped up commercial ones.
We didn’t have any fruit trees have planted about twenty various stone and pip, citrus no good here. It’s only the berries and cherries that we are bird netting.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Pete – what part of the country are you in? My place is up the Wangaehu Valley.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
NZ climate scandal: NIWA “adjusts” records to show warming
Climate Conversation Group Convenor in association with the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition (NZCSC)
Richard Treadgold
New Zealand may have its own “Climategate”, including manipulation of temperature readings, according to a combined research project undertaken by members of the Climate Conversation Group and the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. The researchers claim that temperature readings from seven weather stations throughout New Zealand have been adjusted to show a higher degree of warming than is justified by a study of the original raw data.
Spokesman for the group, Richard Treadgold, said that recent claims that New Zealand is warming have been proved wrong. “Official information clearly shows that temperatures in New Zealand have actually been remarkably stable since 1850. We got the data from the online National Climate Database maintained by NIWA and we made our own graph, which we compared with theirs. The results are shocking.
“NIWA’s official graph (done originally by Dr Jim Salinger, who features also in the emails leaked from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia) shows considerable warming, which they give as 0.92°C per century, saying this is consistent with global warming over the 20th century. But the actual temperature readings taken from the thermometers show an almost flat trend for 150 years.
“These figures all come from NIWA. So, why are they so different from each other?
Because NIWA has adjusted the earliest temperature readings downwards by up to 1.3°C, which has the effect of introducing a false ‘warming’ as the graph then ‘climbs’ to the present day. It’s a disgrace. So far, neither Dr Salinger nor NIWA has revealed why they did this,” said Mr Treadgold …
The full story is posted at the Climate Conversation Group web site, with graphs, at http://www.climateconversation.wordshin … warmeryet/
and http://www.nzclimatescience.org.nz/
November 26th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
It means you get +2 to your will save vs temptation..
November 26th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Now that would work with Hero system as well. Ego roll at +2.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Brian Smaller said “My place is up the Wangaehu Valley.”
Do you take orders?
November 26th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Komata 12:16 pm,
Excellent comment – and I agree wholeheartedly.
Although I would add in qualification that as a baby-boomer (pre 1964 – I made it by 2 years; dob 1962) it was only those of a liberal persuasion that wanted to change the whole corporal punishment thing. I’m sure many of the 87% that voted against Bradford’s Bill in the referendum were in fact disgruntled baby-boomers who could see the writing on the wall should this legislation remain in place. I think many of these same people also saw the error in removing CP from schools back in the 80s.
Much of these ‘crap’ law changes were not mandated by the people, and were in fact brought in despite much public opposition. The 1986 Homosexual Law Reform is another in this category.
We’ve certainly made a ‘rod for our own back’.
[Prov 10:13, 26:3]
November 26th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Unbelievable: The UK Met Office predicts higher temperatures in the next decade – with a 50% probability. They should be sacked and replaced with a coin-toss program.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6930523.ece
“The weather forecaster said there is a 50 per cent chance that the world average temperature in 2010 will be warmer than in 1998, which is the warmest on record in the Met Office’s 160 years of data.”
They go on to say “The institute said that emissions of carbon dioxide from fossil fuels, the main cause of global warming, were “tracking near the highest scenarios considered so far” by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.”
Even Al Gore has come out and said carbon dioxide is not the main cause “Al Gore admits that the majority of global warming that occurred until 2001 was not primarily caused by CO2.” http://www.prisonplanet.com/al-gore-admits-co2-does-not-cause-majority-of-global-warming.html
How can anyone not be sceptical about this when even the believers and their enablers (co-dependents) haven’t got their stories to agree?
November 26th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Unless you’d been too greedy and bought some points at character creation with a susceptibility to…
WAAAAAAIT A MINUTE.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Ryan – yeah, I thought that too. You do know me.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Ryan Sproull 12:22 pm,
Is Brian twitching yet?
In answer to your question I would say ‘No’.
Of course pride/sin/flesh can rise up in any individual and he can ignore conscience (enhanced or not) and thus justify to himself that something that is immoral is in fact moral. Of course part of this justification process means that the definition of ‘morals’ is changed along the way.
The old argument, “I’m basically a good person who enjoys ‘casual sex’ (fill in the blank) … “, comes to mind.
Bottom line: either we make the rules or God does.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Kris,
In that case, what is “enhancement” doing? Your conscience knows what’s right and wrong.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Kris K – Good point – but I don’t believe.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I’m way down south Brian, rural, overlooking the harbour 5 minutes from the cricket and 10 minutes from Dunedin CBD.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Kris, do you think all parents should accept capital punishment for their kids because some parents want it?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/god-has-left-the-buildingit-seems-when-folks-become-apocalyptic-frothing-at-the-mouth-religious-they-ultimately-stray-from-the-light-and-life-of-christianity/
November 26th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
“Kris, do you think all parents should accept capital punishment for their kids because some parents want it?”
I’m against it. I want to die long before any of my kids do.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
so..kkk wants to hit children..
wants school teachers to hit children..
supports torture..
wants to demonise homosexuals..
wants the state to execute..
(and that’s a ‘loving god’..eh..?)
you sick fuck..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Kris – we can all be good people and not believe in a higher being. Human decency makes society a better place to live in, and we don’t need the threat of fire and brimstone to be decent. Casual sex also makes life more fun too
I also don’t see why you believe that homosexuals are bad people – they are just people like everyone else. The Bible teaches tolerance (love thy neighbour) however it is certainly intolerant to make the sexual preference of a portion of society illegal. I don’t particularly like god botherers putting their beliefs in my face either, however I will never support a ban on them doing so as I know I can just ask them to leave me alone or put them on my list for Remove It Permanently and they will no longer annoy me.
I also support the rights of parents to choose the appropriate punishment for their kids. It is not the right of the state to choose that (thus it can’t be practised in schools, and the reason why Bradford’s bill is so bad), just like it’s not the right of the state to choose what religion or political views each child should have.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Yah, corporal, capital, one leads to the other.
A quip from a recent movie: If heaven is such a wonderful place, than how is getting crucified such a big freaking sacrifice?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Phil, as I have pointed out before, and Kris probably knows the chapter and verse, Jesus himself advocated that disobedient children be taken outside the city gates and stoned to death, so what on earth can you expect from fundies?
And he’s not the only sick f**k on here, surely?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I don’t recall Jesus advocating the stoning of children. Certainly not explicitly.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/3099539/Possum-numbers-down-by-more-than-half
stoked
November 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Jeez, were you there with him Ryan?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
stephen – I wonder if that has anything to do with the use of 1080?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I also support the rights of parents to choose the appropriate punishment for their kids.
Like, flogging, the stocks, waterboarding…? I could go on but I don’t want to give anyone ideas:-)
Anyway, isn’t this all flogging a dead horse? It’s done and dusted.
Let’s get back to the conspiracy of 192 governments going to Copenhagen to…to…
save ustax us?November 26th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Ryan Sproull 1:02 pm,
‘Conscience’ is like the base model of a production run car (#1).
‘Conscience plus’ is like the GT version (#2).
‘Conscience plus plus’ is like the full blown race version (#3).
Each “enhancement” brings us closer to the original as intended by the Designer/God.
Conscience alone is more able to be ‘reasoned’ with and therefore tempted to go off track. Each additional “enhancement” gives the individual greater resistance to giving in to temptation; self delusion, or being deluded by others.
I thoroughly recommend the ‘Conscience plus plus’ upgrade!
November 26th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Brian Smaller 10 13 Bit late coming to this but IMHO the biggest drawback to homekill is the large volume of mince and stew you will get from the body of beef and although that is no problem here it may be for you. Therefore your best bet is to just let the grazing for a fee or grow and sell and use the money to buy the cuts you like. From my experience although the home kill meat quality is mostly awsome (there are some pitfalls) you may be more than a little surprised at the ratio of cuts you get. I have knowledge of first time homekill people who are bloody certain they have been ripped off when they see the small package of fillet compared to the buckets of mince the butcher gets for them as a yield Not being negative just an honest warning. Regards murray
November 26th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Luc, you know what I mean and you are just being a dick. There is a difference between child abuse and discipline.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Ryan Deuteronomy 21:18-21
And boy, does some spin go into explaining this away!!
November 26th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
gazz, that’s just the problem. The difference. The subjective difference, and that’s why we now have the current law.
In my view, and no offence intended, your view of discipline IS child abuse.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I wish that would happen in the bush above my place Stephen, they are a continual menace. Beware of the possums Brian.
Country wide I guess it is largely due to 1080, I have mixed feelings about that.
gravedodger – yeah, agreed re fry v stew v roast and corned, but I’m happy with the variety, mince and stew are very versatile anyway.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Luc – a light smack is not child abuse. Equally it can be considered abusive to lock a kid in a closet for a few hours, however this is not illegal. The Borrows amendment was going to define “reasonable force” as a light smack (which I am sure that 87% of the electorate will find acceptable), however we got stuck with a law that 87% of the electorate disagrees with.
You don’t have to smack your kids, but please don’t tell anyone else how to raise theirs.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
oops, sorry Ryan, wrong testament.
I meant Mathew 15:3 to 15:5
I’m not well practised as this Bible quoting stuff!
November 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Kris, if ‘Conscience plus plus’ is like the full blown race version (#3) then is it road legal? It seems perhaps I can only exercise Conscience plus plus on private property. Lucky I’ve still got my second conscience, even though it’s an old dunger and I find it regularly breaks down, especially when I’ve filled it with ethanol based fuels.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Is anybody else having problems with cricinfo?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Yep bb, it flashes the score when it refreshes but then the screen stays the same. Can you back out of it for the day, you might be overloading it.
Funny, it has just come right. Did you exit? 44/2.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Luc – most Christians, and by most I mean a small majority of say 99% don’t believe that kill your bad kids stuff that is in the bible. Point out the last place a group of Christians stoned an unruly child, or adulterer to death? Trying to justify your point of view on archaic stuff that not even tent revival Southern Baptists believe in seems stupid. How about taking aim at the religion that actually DOES stone people to death, and try to make sure they don’t get a foothold in your society and start telling you how to live your life.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
I rolled my own solution with Greasemonkey (which I still use). I posted it here, but I’m not sure if anyone else successfully got it going. Such is life.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Many will agree with the following statement.
I need help!
My PC at home keeps coming up with this message ‘AQR12JPU IDE Controller (Code 39)’
What is it and how do I fix it?
Will it stop me connecting to the internet or is that a separate problem?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
stephen – I wonder if that has anything to do with the use of 1080?
Invisible genetically engineered panthers, maybe.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
That’s all well and good, but what does it mean in real terms? An enhanced car may run smoother, faster or cleaner. A conscience evaluates actions as being right or wrong. How can conscience run better without changing how it evaluates things – ie., finding something right that it previously found wrong, or wrong that it previously found right?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Pete George 1:14 pm,
When I was at college corporal punishment was the norm. Most parents were happy with this and basically had the attitude that if you misbehave then you get what you deserve.
To be honest, Pete, I would rather have my child caned at school under CP, than have no CP in schools but my kid get stabbed by some little shit that’s never been disciplined in his life. I believe the latter is the reality in many modern-day NZ schools since CP was removed from them. Heck, even teachers get stabbed by students these days. This will only get worse with CP now removed from the home under Bradford’s Bill.
If you read Komata’s 12:16 pm comment above you will also see were I’m coming from in this regard.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
That’s in the context of an argument with Pharisees who were hassling Jesus for breaking old rules.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
That’s your DVD and maybe hard drive controller bruv. It suggests something like a corrupt driver (not you).
When did you last back up?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
bb – the IDE controller is what your hard disk and CD Rom drives hook onto (they’re substantially replaced by a new technology called SATA on newer machines). Make sure you’re backed up.
Brian – I’m sure 99% of Muslims don’t condone the stoning people to death stuff either. They just want to get on with their lives without stupid fundamentalists of any denomination blowing them up.
Ryan – an enhanced car may also go faster, so does that mean that ADHD kids are more godly?!
November 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Pete
What is a back up?….(I am not joking)
It does come up and say it is corrupt when I try and reload it.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Ryan, since when do we do context around here?
Think scientists emails.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Copy all your important files onto another disk – if you don’t have another disk go to Warehouse Stationary and buy a USB stick or external hard disk.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Does it sound terminal?
The only important files I have are family pictures and the like
November 26th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
big bruv
does this help?
http://www.pchell.com/hardware/cd_drive_error_code_39.shtml
November 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
It would pay to make a second copy of your files anyway, in case your computer gets damaged or gets a virus. You only need one electrical storm to destroy your photos.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
BB – have you recently uninstalled Easy CD Creator?
November 26th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
I dunno Luke, it is on my home PC, I will give that a crack when I get home tonight.
Cheers
November 26th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Rightnow
No, that does not mean that the Mrs or the lad have not been mucking around with it.
Is this fault the reason I cannot connect to the Internet at home?
November 26th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
gazzmaniac 1:25 pm,
While I know many good decent people of all persuasions, there are also some pretty unsavoury characters. It’s a bit of a pick ‘n mix out there. Most Christians I know have a higher moral standard compared to those that may be good people, but are not Christian. So while I’m sure you’re a good person, your casual sex comment would go against most Christian/biblical beliefs.
And I have no more problem with individual homosexuals as people than I do with those who practice casual sex. But I do have a problem with the radical homosexual lobby which desires to normalise this as just another ‘lifestyle choice’.
If I follow Christ and the Bible then I must adhere to God’s word in regards to His view on homosexuality, casual sex, etc. If He identifies it as sin then that is my belief too. And you’re actually wrong; the Bible is very intolerant of sin (homosexuality et al). Christ admonished people to “go and sin no more”. In my opinion homosexuality is a choice.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
BB, shouldn’t have anything to do with your internet connection. My suggestion in these cases (being the de facto tech support guy for my extended family) is to try a system restore back to a time you know everything was working.
This is accessed from
Start>All programs> Accessories> System Tools> System Restore.
Assuming you have system restore enabled it should have some dates on a calendar with restore points. Choose a date you know everything was working fine and follow the instructions.
The downside of that is that next time your computer does automatic updates it is likely to install something that breaks it again.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Ryan Sproull 1:51 pm,
I think you really know where I’m coming from, Ryan, but I’ll try and expalin.
Conscience alone is like a course filter. So while we may pick up on the big issues, often we miss the more subtle ones. Also, while we may ‘know’ something is wrong, it is hard to explain the why behind that ‘knowledge’. For example, why is murder wrong? Whatever argument we put forward it will always be a subjective, ‘greater good’ type justification. Thus the only way to have ‘absolute objective morals’ is to go to the One who gave us a conscience in the first place; the Creator God.
Aside from God, our morals, laws, lifestyle choices, etc., are nothing more than an agreed upon group consensus. And if one is a proponent of evolution one must ask why is it that only mankind has a morality, and I would argue a conscience; a God given ability to discern between right and wrong. Animals don’t make moral choices.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
bruv cricinfo is having tech problems, will not be at your end.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Like Graham Capill?
I am sure that most homosexuals wouldn’t agree that it’s a choice. And there is nothing wrong with it – it is religious nuts who have demonised it. The Greeks were well known for it prior to the spread of Christianity. The Bible may be quite explicit with saying that you shouldn’t sin, however it’s not really for you to tell other people not to do so.
BB- if you do a system restore, make sure you back up first.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
“..In my opinion homosexuality is a choice…”
ah well..!..there you go..!
have you ever met any overtly gay people..?..kkk..?
or are all the ones in yr church firmly in the closet..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Brian Smaller at 12.31 who claims he lives in the Wangaehu valley.
What is it with you bastards from the Whanganui area. Do you hate the letter “H” so much that you leave it out of Whangaehu AND Whanganui?
November 26th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
The difference, I guess Tauhei, is that WHangaehu as always been Whangaehu!
November 26th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
So an enhanced conscience finds the same things right and wrong as it did previously, but now it can add “cos God says” after any such evaluation?
That doesn’t really solve the problem you pose. It just makes God the subject of the subjective morals. Why does God saying so make something good?
Well, if you define it as “god-given”, that’s not a fair question. But as for why humans have consciences, that’s easily explained in terms of evolution.
What gives you the idea that animals don’t make moral choices?
November 26th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Uplug your CDROM and see if it solves the problem BB just pull out the IDE/power cable if you still can’t connect to your ISP then its more than the CDROM.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
gazzmaniac 2:38 pm,
I did say ‘most’. There are of course some who let the side down badly. And I would contend that they have supressed their consciences in the making of bad/sinful choices a la Capill.
You’re right, I can’t personally tell people not to do anything, but I WILL tell them what the God of the Bible thinks about their actions/choices; and what the consequences will be for them if they reject His offer to redeem them from their sins. They may not like it of course, but to not inform them would be remiss of me, especially in light of the consequences.
While we have breath the offer remains on the table …
November 26th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Don’t see why anyone would care when Bond is bowling 150km/h
November 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
so kkk..
we know you have the muslims and the catholics in your sights..
how are you on the jews..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Indeed Stephen, indeed. Oh, how we have waited to have a quick bowler intimidating the opposition again.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
So far today its been all that runt Chris Martin, but now Bond’s BACK IN IT
November 26th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Thrill wickets in three overs from Bond – he’s back, and licenced to bowl!
November 26th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Ryan Sproull 2:51 pm,
But the opposite isn’t true to your first statement. Conscience alone is only a coarse filter.
And yes, essentially it is true ‘cos God says’; God makes the rules – we accept/reject them.
Disagree – God is the author of absolute morals.
Because God is ‘good’.
Disagree.
Evolution explains nothing, and certainly not the existence of human conscience.
Most/all choices animals make are primarily concerned with their survival: food, shelter, caring for their young; these are not driven by morals.
Most choices we make have very little to do with our survival; our physical survival, anyway. So while an animal may kill the offspring of a rival of its own species eg a lion, and this results in better survivability of his progeny, the same is not true for humans, even IF it would improve the survivability of my/our progeny. The lion is not considered immoral for such actions, whereas we are. See the difference?
And of course the Bible never warned animals against making bad moral, or sinful, choices.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Ryan: “What gives you the idea that animals don’t make moral choices?”
William S Burroughs said only dogs and man have a sense of right and wrong (Warning to Young Couples, from Spare Ass Annie and Other Tales, William S Burroughs and the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy 1993)
“dogs are the only animal other than man with a sense of right and wrong”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsSPJCEeRX0 at 1.30 in to the track
November 26th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Thrill wickets in three overs from Bond – he’s back, and licenced to bowl!
I’d give that ten thumbs down if i wasn’t so giddy with excitement right now.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
On the subject of dodgy science:
And of course, HeadOn and all the rest of the New Age natural junk. It’s amusing how witchcraftery has become more popular among most of these nature freaks who state loudly that they are “progressive,” in a similar manner to economics. It is not socialism that is “progressive” but capitalism, which the events of the 1980s all around the world showed us.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Phillip Ure said “so kkk..”
Phil – have you added an extra “k” to Kris K’s name by mistake, or is it a deliberate slur?
I suspect it’s the latter, given that you “loathe racists with an intensity that is visceral.” Feckin’ hypocrite.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Ian Wishart also has the story on NZ’s own NIWA allegedly faking warming trends in their data.
Seems it is a favorite thing to do with warming scientists.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
And you know what’s really pathetic? When those much-vaunted computer models cited by the “moderate centre left” can’t even predict 20th century rainfalls:
This CRU hack is the most damaging thing to AGW since…you know, I can’t think of any.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Kris K – please tell me . . .
Genesis 19 – Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”
”No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing.
I guess you accept this as one place where the Bible condemns homosexuality. But if you accept this as a statement of morality, please explain the verse that follows those above . . .
8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Can you explain how this is different from saying, “Just because”?
Evolution explains a great many things. I find it difficult to believe you think it explains nothing. As for the human conscience, that is easily explained as a development from herd instincts. Morality is simply a compulsion to act one way rather than acting another way. Acting one way rather than another way is fairly obviously an advantageous trait, and animals in herds that developed the trait would have an advantage over animals in herds that did not.
Looking after your children is not driven by morals? I suppose it could be argued that it is driven by love, rather than morals.
Certainly most animals’ morals would differ from most humans’ morals in some respects. But I know I’ve looked after a dog who knew he wasn’t allowed on the carpet, and when I caught him, he looked guilty as sin and walked back to the wooden floor looking very ashamed.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
here you go Hurf, Kris might be interested in it also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamburtsev_Mountain_Range
November 26th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Evolutionary behaviour that can be described as altruistic (and in this sense, having some moral basis) have had explanations going back to the 1970s and early 1980s. Axelrod in his seminal text on the Evolution of Altruism, showed in a number of computer simulated contests, altruistic cooperative strategies could outcompete selfish, opportunistic strategies. One might prefer a theistic origin for altruistic behaviour, but there are certainly solid scientific rationales for the evolution of such behaviour also.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
phool
Oh! boo hoo…..
No bites huh…..
Now f**k off……. thats a good little idiot..
Sorry peps. No firefox being a Microsoft man, so I still have scroll pass the crap.
He is a certified idiot and I know better than to reply but sometimes I can’t help myself.
Will try self flagellation with a whole cube roll to curb my fetish.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Family photos are the most important files you have. With people printing less and less often, a lot of memories and special occasions exist only as a few lines of code on your PC. I’m absolutely certain that in 10-20 years time, it will be the photos of my wife and kids, on birthdays and holidays- that will mean the most to me.
I had a colleague once in Ca, who was wondering why he was spending so much time and money on photography. Then, when one of the perennial forest fires threatened he had to leave his house quickly. As he was packing in haste, grabbing only the most important stuff to toss in the car, he realised why. He’d just honed in on all the family photo albums. Ultimately those were the material things that mattered the most. And I’ve heard plenty of horror stories of people losing years worth of albums when something crashes or gets stolen.
I actually upload a lot of family photos to private albums on my website. It means that if my house gets burgled, or burns down, or is covered in volcanic debris from Rangitoto, there is an offsite location for these photos. I use zenfolio as my site (US-based). The family photos are hidden from view except to other family members who know the secret location and password.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
NIWA ClimateGate link is hitting NZ MSM
November 26th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
“Phillip Ure said “so kkk..”
Phil – have you added an extra “k” to Kris K’s name by mistake, or is it a deliberate slur?”
IV2, if you don’t like what he says, there is an easy option.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/general_debate_24_november_2009.html#comment-635270
November 26th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Yvette 3:41 pm,
Other Christians here may disagree; so this is just my opinion.
I believe Lot, though righteous, was just a man.
In simple terms I believe his choice was the lesser of two evils. That giving his two virgin daughters, while bad, was not as evil as giving the two men (angels) to the Sodomites/sodomites outside. Perhaps, too, he knew they wouldn’t take up his offer anyway.
You may like to read Romans chapter one, among others, regarding the Bible/God’s view on homosexuality (and other sins of this/our age). I suggest you read it in the KJV Bible.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
OK, Kris – put yourself in Lot’s place; what would YOU do?
I am what you would call an atheist and I know, without the need for gods, that the right thing to do is to protect my guests and my daughters.
Quite simply, Lot was not righteous, he was weak.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Really? You wouldn’t try to protect your children above all else, let alone for a couple of strangers?
“Hey, these are me mates, leave ‘em alone, fuck my daughters!” I’m a bit stunned.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I am truly grateful for whoever sussed out the RIP add-ons, philu plus another few assorted morons have been removed from my kiwiblog experience permanently. A sincere thanks.
As a sidenote, what a rare display of test cricket competence by us… good stuff
November 26th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Nick, that’s a bit unfair not saying which of the other assorted morons, we won’t know if we can pull your leg while your eyes are closed.
Certainly some good cricket – in test! That’s a bit rare these days. Surely we can’t lose, and in a good position at the moment. The forecast is ok apart from plenty of wind and maybe a bit of late rain tomorrow.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Ryan Sproull 3:44 pm,
Not really.
Apart from what He has done in my life, and the way in which He has revealed Himself through His creation, fulfilled prophecy, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and the testimony of His word.
I believe evolution is a crock (we were debating it a while ago, but you piked out over carbon dating). As I’ve said before; I believe AGW to be the SECOND biggest pseudo scientific theory foisted upon a gullible world – second to evolution. Evolutionists, like warmists, promote it via the same methods as those that push the AGW lie.
And Ryan, “I find it difficult to believe you think it [evolution] explains” anything.
I don’t even think animals love in the same way humans do. Often once they’re ‘out of the nest’ they’re on their own. It could also be driven by the desire to see your progeny survive.
Maybe he was a ‘Christian’ dog?
But I agree that dogs perhaps develop closer relationships with us than most other animals do.
The desire to please their master isn’t necessarily a moral choice – I mean, if he disobeyed you he isn’t exactly sinning.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Haha thats a bit self-deprecating to lump yourself in with the philu’s Pete.
This partnership is doing quite well though. Bond is back on
November 26th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Banana Llama 3:50 pm,
BL, I assume you’re referring to this bit:
Did I hear someone say, “Young earth”?
November 26th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Pete George – further . . .
Genesis 19 –
” 30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I lay with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today. ”
Kris K -
Is there any moral teaching to be taken from this, or is it history, which isn’t often moral; as opposed to the teaching of Jesus, which I’d think is moral.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
big bruv,
Do a backup first. Just get an external hard drive and copy and paste all of the important files and photos etc.
Then do as ‘Right Now’ says. System Restore is there for a reason, however you should disable any Antivirus Programs running and pull the Internet first. After System Restore enable Security. You will get the Windows/Microsoft Updates, so do a Custom Install with these.(there is no need for IE updates if you use Firefox) Just click the ‘do not ask again’ box.
Internet connection can be many things. Is the Hard Drive getting full? The error you mention points to this.
Almost impossible to fix over a blog lol, but those are some basic guidelines.
Just a thought, did someone click one of those ‘Scan your PC for Free’ things? If they did you could be in for a clean install.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I keep hearing this funny noise.
I know it sounds foolish so I guess I will ignore it.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Yvette 5:22 pm,
I’m glad you raised this.
That old chestnut; incest in the Old Testament.
You have to ask when and why did God institute a law condemning incest to understand this.
Now I believe there were a literal Adam and Eve. Obviously their sons, Cain and Seth, had to marry someone. The only solution is that they married sisters, nieces, etc.
Now come forward to Lot’s time. His own uncle and aunt, Abraham and Sarah, were in fact half brother and sister. So today we would condemn Lot and all these individuals of incest.
But the law against incest only came about around the time when Moses received the ten commandments. As we know, Moses is a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and in fact lived quite a while after Jacob.
Incest only condemned from this point forward:
So while incest is condemned today, it was not prior to when Moses delivered it in Leviticus 18.
The biological reason is that prior to Moses the gene pool was sufficiently pure to have no subsequent harmful genetic mutations which we would suffer if incest were permitted today. One needs only consider the inbreeding and related health risks that some of the European royal families suffered due to marriage between close family members.
Hope this answers your question.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
The downside is that a certain frequent poster has a falloff in the negative-karma count.
Looks like the mercurial Black Caps are putting together a good performance though, hoping that the inconsistency-bug will be debugged this test.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
MyNameIsJack 4:48 pm,
I think it was a Clayton’s choice. If the angels hadn’t intervened then the sodomites outside would have broken the door down and had their way with whosoever they chose. I believe Lot knew this – he was likely trying to buy time.
Pete George 4:54 pm,
As my answer above to MNIJ, Pete.
Lot basically had no choice. What do you do when you have absolutely no options, Pete?
The way our society is going someone will no doubt be confronted with exactly this predicament in the near future, if it hasn’t happened already somewhere.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Big Bruv
The people who did in your computer are probably from the SIS. But because you have nothing to hide you shouldnt feel pissed off.
Just patriotic New Zealanders doing their thing to get rid of Lefties and List MP’s.
Be proud boy
November 26th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
IMO..religion is for the weak.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Wouldn’t it be just easier to design the human genome in a way that makes it less vulnerable to inbreeding. Afterall, a lot of island bird-species manage quite well with a high level of homogeneity. That way you could bypass the whole incest-is-ok, now-i-isn’t problem.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Kris K – your answers intrigue me, so do you have something to contribute on a question which has always puzzled me:
Why did Judas have to betray Jesus with a kiss, supposedly to identify him to the authorities, who must surely been totally clued up on who they were going to arrest?
November 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
What a day on GB.
Posters obsessing on one poster to the extent of performing RIP, yet STILL coming on here and talking about him. Just who is the victor in this little contest?
The mad creationist having a field day denying science that is inconvenient to his beliefs. Note Belief n. esp without proof.
Of course, a belief backed up by evidence becomes fact. I don’t live in fear of that happening anytime soon
Then the climate change deniers are still desperately clinging on to out of context quotes from stolen emails while the rest of the world heads to Copenhagen.
And then there is Hurf Durf quoting a scientist supposedly applying long range climate models to monsoons, yet these models are based on long term averages and are not suitable for analysing or predicting individual extreme events. As the experts inform us:
Changes in climate extremes are expected as the climate warms in response to increasing atmospheric greenhouse gases resulting from human activities, such as the use of fossil fuels. However, determining whether a specific, single extreme event is due to a specific cause, such as increasing greenhouse gases, is difficult, if not impossible, for two reasons: 1) extreme events are usually caused by a combination of factors and 2) a wide range of extreme events is a normal occurrence even in an unchanging climate. Nevertheless, analysis of the warming observed over the past century suggests that the likelihood of some extreme events, such as heat waves, has increased due to greenhouse warming, and that the likelihood of others, such as frost or extremely cold nights, has decreased
Furthermore, the report is quoted as sourced from The Telegraph, which is actually The Telegraph India, not the UK version. Nothing against India, but I wonder if this is deliberate misleading? And in fact, given the track record of the denial industry, is the whole passage quoted out of context?
After all, earlier I posted a Bible passage showing that Jesus clearly advocated stoning children to death, only to be informed that the proper context was that he was opposed to this practice.
Meanwhile, the leader of the free world has announced emissions reductions targets (initially, roughly in line with ours, effectively zero, but it’s the gesture that counts), and delegations from 192 countries and their assorted hundreds of “experts”, NGO’s by the truckload, MSM and not-so-MSM are all heading to the only show in town.
Don’t you guys ever get just a teensy, eensy bit lonely with all this shouting in the wilderness?
November 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Chthoniid 6:15 pm,
Indeed.
And it was … originally (man and all creatures’ genomes) prior to sin corrupting it.
As a Christian I believe the errors started accumulating after Adam and Eve sinned until it became unsafe to allow marriage between close relatives.
We see similar issues arising where the gene pool is restricted amongst various species within the animal kingdom. Inbreeding within certain pedigree dog sub groups and some race horses, etc would be examples of artifical gene pool restrictions. I know some NZ native birds which were on the brink of extinction, and were then brought back, have issues about lack of genetic variation. And this is a concern to those involved in breeding them back.
PS I liked your Jesus Bird photo earlier – quite ‘on topic’.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Prisons are full, however Rudith says the Courthouse will do, while the public get ready for open mayhem in the inner city. The judges will get rolled at the Masonic meetings.
FFS what a brain dead bunch of thicko’s these bluecoats are. Maybe big blouse could Crush a braincell?
November 26th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
“Is there any moral teaching to be taken from this [Story of Lot]”
Yvette, you’ve hit on the most critical story in the Bible.
Lot was in fact a bad man, what father would give up his daughters to be raped? And then later on he takes the best land for himself while Abraham is left with the dregs. He deserved to die in Sodom but G-d spared him at Abraham’s behest.
Underlining their flawed lineage, his daughters prove they were equally bad: what daughter sleeps with their father?
They gave birth to a bastard: the Moabite Chieftan. The world has been a troubled place ever since and it continues today. The Moabites are still with us.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
If you want to see the tragic results of inbreeding you only need visit Christchurch.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
You would know big blouse.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
aw geez bb..thats a bit harsh…IMO…Timaru is the inbreeding capital by far..
November 26th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
big blouse is from the land of the twisted faces.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Yvette 6:28 pm,
I believe Judas’ kiss was the ultimate act of betrayal by one of the inner circle; one of the twelve disciples. Why Judas chose this method to identify Christ is beyond me. But forever the name Judas will be associated with betrayal.
Perhaps the fact that Christ had always slipped through the fingers of the pharisees, etc up to that time was the reason they wanted Him identified immediately prior to His capture. The real reason they were successful, of course, was that Christ ‘allowed’ himself to be taken. Just as He allowed Himself to be crucified. Satan thought he had won a great victory, but it was Christ’s death on behalf of mankind that was the real victory:
Nice chatting, but I gotta go – our weekly Bible study calls.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Reid – do you realise the link you posted is demanding that Israel hold onto all the territories?
I thought this was something you didn’t agree with….
November 26th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
This could be indicative of what a lot of the MSM think of climate change and the relative importance of the CRU release.
Most scientists and most media and most politicians are hard to argue against, especially in isolated pockets.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
By my reckoning those people will swing from the lamposts in another decade Pete.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Really? The righteous few will kill nearly all scientists, politicians, journalists and editors?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
I’ve told you before you commie swine. No shit from the Washington Post. Extreme left propaganda speiler.
http://lewwaters.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/washington-post-admits-left-winged-media-bias/
November 26th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Jeez reid, Kris K looks positively cool-as-sane besides the lot your link sent me too!
Pete, I agree with that post. The job of scientists is to do the science, not become advocates. However, they are humans as dependent on this planet as the rest of us and if they “can see it so clearly now”, we have to cut them a little slack, surely.
Anyway, for the deniers, your most common questions will be answered on RNZ at 8.40pm tonight. Do yourself a favour, and tune in. Also, soon is the third in a BBC series on relations between Islam and Judaism. The first two have been very informative and given me cause to rethink a couple of aspects on the ME muddle, for sure. You can also track down the episodes on BBC radio.
After that I gotta watch the latest episode of Democracy Now!
Busy night…
November 26th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
“Anyway, for the deniers, your most common questions will be answered on RNZ at 8.40pm tonight. Do yourself a favour, and tune in. ”
Another commie with tainted information sources. RNZ?? For fuck’s sake. when did they ever have a clue about anything?? Bunch of knuckle dragging progressives mired in last century’s left wing fantasies.
What are you people doing here with so much utterly worthless left wing crap????
November 26th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
i’ve told you before..you fascist swine..no shit from fox..extreme right propaganda spieler..
plus..they just make stuff up/show fake footage..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Tut tut Red. I posted that as an example, not as gospel. Anyway, we need something here to balance your extreme right propaganda. Look back a few days for the details on RIP. It would be good if you blocked everything that smelled of commie. That could be a win win.
Would you believe it – this is true, in the garage I have several hammers, and also two sickles, one I broke and the other doesn’t have a handle, but they look the part.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
We’ve been missing you herding us towards all your useless right wing crap. We have been blogging unguided and unabused in the wilderness. Will such sins ever be forgiven? Doesn’t look like it, hell has returned.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
“Anyway, we need something here to balance your extreme right propaganda. ”
Take it to Public Address.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Well no Pete quite a few politicians don’t agree with Anthropogenic global warming and i do believe thousands of scientists have disagreed with the claims made by global warming alarmists not to mention the plethora of blogs, small to medium newspapers and T.V networks that have shown skepticism.
I’m quite sure they will be safe with the majority.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Pete a question for you from you link to the Washington Post
See how the headline reads “Climate of Denial” doesn’t that imply that the headline writer has a dog in this fight and is not neutrally reporting a dustup from the world of science?
And then we get ” Researchers show how not to respond to global warming skeptics.”
So why are those who have had their Emails leaked “Researchers” whereas those who are challenging these gentlemen global warming skeptics even though in many cases they are equally qualified scientists and in my biased view more scientific since skepticism in fact is the default position of all good scientists.
Indeed more than anything else about this whole sorry saga it is the crushing of skepticism and dissent from the party line on Global Warming that is the most troubling
Your views?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
News from OZ: Liberals Nick Minchin, Eric Abetz, Stephen Parry, Tony Smith and Sophie Mirabella quit.
Exhibiting a brain and a spine. Well done.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
“Exhibiting a brain and a spine. Well done.”
Turncoat Turnbull should never have been elected leader.
We need so called right wing poiliticians who can’t wait to do the left’s work for them like we need a hole in the head.
Time for a cleanout. In NZ, Australia and the US. No more right wing fakes.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Andrei, the WaPo’s just had to close three regional bureaus. That piece of shit is going down the toilet – and not a moment too soon.
Looks like the moderate centre left will have to find another fellow-traveller newspaper. The New York Slimes?
November 26th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Re Big Bruv at 6.49: “…If you want to see the tragic results of inbreeding you only need visit Christchurch…”
Aren’t you the leftist always on about racism etc Big Bruv? Wouldn’t be because Christchurch is predominantly pakeha that you slander it, would it Big Bruv? Of course not, you are a vigorous opponent of such prejudice.
As a Christchurcher I can say the quality of the average citizen has declined in recent years, as riff-raff northerners drift in, attracted chiefly by vast Christchurch Council subsidised housing available as well as to poor locals, these choice settlers from round the country: ex jailbirds, the families who came south to visit them in prison, the drug addicts, itinerant burglars and the mentally ill our post-Christian society otherwise fails to shelter.
As for inbreeding, Maori arrived in only a few canoes, and it was around five centuries before new genes were added. If it weren’t for the addition of pakeha genes, they would be easily the most inbred people in the country and one of the most inbred in the world.
Like the birds Chthoniid mentions at 6.15, Maori came through okay. The Japanese gene pool for centuries was similarly isolated though the population was much bigger of course. They seem to be okay, too.
Theodore Dalrymple (Anthony Daniels) former general-practice psychiatrist and prison doctor in Britain, reported some sad outcomes of the common forced marriages between first cousins in the British-resident Pakistani community, but who knows what other factors were involved.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Public Address is the blog equivilent of felching. I won’t be going back there any time soon.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
“Climate of denial” could mean various things.
” Researchers show how not to respond to global warming skeptics.”
Yes, they are researchers at CRU.
Those against climate change are a small minority. And of those most aren’t scientific researchers.
“Global warming skeptic” is an inaccurate term anyway. All climate scientists should be global warming skeptics. The minority view is more like “those who don’t think climate change is a problem”.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
“Public Address is the blog equivilent of felching”
Haha HD fucking brilliant mate. Wussell will be angry over at Wublic Dress . The Paris Hilton Blogosphere Inn is pathetic.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
“Public Address is the blog equivilent of felching. ”
It makes my skin crawl to read it. So much arrogant Progressive horseshit. So much patronising sneering.
A change I do detect is that they seem to be adapting a siege mentality.
As the western world awakens from its disastrous engagement with Progressivism, the kind of people who can be found frequenting ideological rust buckets like Public Address are going to be under a lot of political pressure. They can’t argue, so they withdraw to the bunkers.
The amount of scorn they heap on the Tea Party movement and Glenn Beck is atrocious. If they only took the time to listen to the other side, they might find something there that could change their thinking. But they won’t dare. The arrogance is ingrained and they can’t help themselves.
As the scorpion said to the frog after he had stung him while the frog was carrying him across the river, (thereby condemning them both to death) – “Its my nature”.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Those against climate change are a small minority.
Not so this is a classic example of the Goebbels maxim tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth
And of those most aren’t scientific researchers.
What makes someone a scientific research? This is an example of language redefinition – many of these researchers are indeed scientists, what the shouters will say is they are not “climate scientists” ie not in the priesthood which through chinese whispers becomes they are ill informed amateurs.
Still if you want to be led like a sheep to slaughter by agenda driven junk science what can I do or anybody else do?
November 26th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
November 26th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Haha, you’re doing it again.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
That wouldn’t happen to be the same Met Office that forecast a “barbecue Summer” for the last English summer only to have it turn out to be one of the coldest and wettest on record would it Pete?
November 26th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
You didn’t read the article did you.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
The Met Office can’t even get the next day’s forecast right.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
“..It makes my skin crawl to read it…”
could we see a vid of that..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 26th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
“Reid – do you realise the link you posted is demanding that Israel hold onto all the territories?”
Read more about what that person says Tim, before you draw hasty conclusions from incomplete information.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
met service could make a quantum leap in accuracy sometimes by just going outside with a wet finger and their eyes open.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
I know it’s been said before but, damn, it’s nice to have phool and Puke and the moderate centre left silenced. Is there a RIP for reality? I’d even be happy with a mute button.
Enjoy having a thumbs up surplus from now on, guys! Looks like you will be able to hide the decline!
November 26th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Poor Pete, I’m really starting to feel sorry for you now, South Island and all…….
Have you looked at the emails Pete?
How about the 100′s of documents?
Be honest.
If you haven’t maybe you should just zip it on this subject for a few days and let things play. You seem like a reasonably decent chap so I’m just giving you a heads up, take it or leave it.
The emails are personally damaging to the top 5 or 6 ‘Climate Scientists’ in the world. From what some pretty smart people are saying the documents section is going to go a lot wider than that.
This is just CRU. I’m sure they’ll be inundated with FOI requests in the next few weeks not only confirming these emails and documents are genuine but also requests for the many gems referred to in the documents. Do you think Professor Jones will be trying to play games this time?
Then NASA, NOAA and all the other major players will be getting similar requests in their respective countries. I don’t think these agencies will risk playing games either.
I’m sure there will be some OIA’s filed to NIWA tomorrow too. In fact it looks as though NZ is going to be used to try and reverse engineer the ‘adjustments’ that these ‘scientists’ have been using to inflate temperatures. Someone pointed out that NIWA may have been adjusting the temps and then CRU was as well.
All in all Pete, the science behind this stuff isn’t looking too crash hot.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Hurf, I’m still waiting for your explanation of the “moderate centre left.”
And I fail to see how I have been silenced. Kiwiblog is not ranked a top blog for the number of contributors, but for its visitors. Personally, I think they mainly come to watch a freak show, as I did for quite a while before I decided that the odd sane person here needed support.
And your idea of RIP for reality is just so apt, for you. Perfect, in fact. You don’t seem to live in it!
November 26th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Careful Chicken… Pete will claim your on some payroll and have been given a ‘playbook’ if you keep up like that.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
The next time someone whimpers ‘taken out of context’ in a lame attempt to discredit these emails, mention that a good number of them combine to describe an entire story in simple, chronological detail. An example is here – Willis Eschenbach’s account of his FOI request.
Note that the story picks up in Para 3 with Eschenbach’s commentary.
The science isn’t settled. It was never science to start with.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
How can you “settle” science? Is that what they said when the Origin of the Species was published? Is that what they said when the germ theory was suggested?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Yes, getstaffed, but this is about bad behaviour, not science.
The science stands, but your mind is closed, just as it is with your particular invention of a god.
I repeat, ad nauseum, 192 countries sending delegations to Copenhagen.
Feel the echo in the chamber whence you dwell.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Pete George
“Those against climate change are a small minority.”
Says who?
My interpretation of sifting through blogs around the world is that the warmers are a minority and delusional, and the antis’ are the realists.
Prove your inane comment!
November 26th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Funny you should say that getstaffed –
From – uea-tyndall-shell.doc
Mick Kelly and Aeree Kim (CRU, ENV) met with Robert Kleiburg (Shell International’s climate change team) on July 4th primarily to discuss access to Shell information as part of Aeree’s PhD study (our initiative) and broader collaboration through postgrad. student project placements (their initiative), but Robert was also interested in plans for the Tyndall Centre (TC). What ensued was necessarily a rather speculative discussion with the following points emerging.
1.Shell International would give serious consideration to what I referred to in the meeting as a ‘strategic partnership’ with the TC, broadly equivalent to a ‘flagship alliance’ in the TC proposal. A strategic partnership would involve not only the provision of funding but some (limited but genuine) role in setting the research agenda etc.
Kinda puts all that ‘in the pay of big oil’ into focus, don’t it?
Luc – not sure why but whenever I read your…..um….comments I keep thinking of a great comment by JC over at the Dimpost the other day. Went something like -
I’m confused
Who are the Deniers?
Seems to sum you up to me.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Science itself might stand, but the process followed, to form the very basis of our accepted understanding of climate change, wasn’t science. It was a sham.
Consider proper scientific method:
The Jones et al perversion of the peer review process is an unethical disgrace, and calls in to question the reliability of all previous research published by these guys.
Full inquiry now. And a criminal investigation into FOI actions.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Luc, using majority opinion to justify your argument is always a bit dicey: e.g.
most people in the West thought the Iraq invasion was a great idea cause apparently, Saddam had WMDs
most people in 1930′s Britain believed everything was just hunky dory
I could go on and on but that would be boring, wouldn’t it.
How about trying something different, like admitting there are legitimate questions still to be answered, or is that simply heresy?
November 26th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Perhaps read each of these 450 PEER-REVIEWED PAPERS SUPPORTING SKEPTICISM OF AGW and then re-consider. On second thoughts don’t bother. Just try to discredit the source. Or question my motives. More your style.
I wonder how many of the pro AGW papers have their heritage in ‘data’ and/or ‘findings’ of these fraudsters at the CRU? Quite a few I should expect. It would make for an interesting dependency analysis.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Most people think the anti-smacking bill is a crock of shit. According to Luc logic, we should scrap the whole thing because the people are on the side of it. Yes, I like that logic.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
reid, you are wrong, on two counts, at least.
Most people in the west -OUTSIDE THE USA – thought invading Iraq was a very bad idea. Don’t you remember the huge demos throughout the western world (I went on one).
We are not talking here about a general majority, we are talking an overwhelming majority of experts. And this majority is being swamped by fuckwits who think reading a few articles by conspiracy theorists makes them experts in climate change.
Sorry mate, I know we agree on lots, but this is too serious to wallow in egalitarianism.
Think of it like this: your heart surgeon says you need a transplant; are you going to hit the streets and take a vox pop?!
November 26th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Hurf, the problem with the referendum is this: no-one asked the children if they wanted to be hit.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Luc
“We are not talking here about a general majority, we are talking an overwhelming majority of experts.”
What a load of shit!!
What the hell is an overwhelming majority of experts? What makes them so? Who proves they are experts? What makes their opinion more acceptable than the general majority?
You are getting as bad as the phool!
November 26th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Fuckwits? Conspiracy Theorists?
I’m feeling a little aggression from you here Luc. Hope you’re not like that around the baby.
You realise these are emails and documents written by the experts in Climate Change, right?
It’s in their own words.
My personal favourite is Ian ‘Harry’ Harris referring to the master dataset that this entire AWG thing is built on as ‘completely useless’.
You should read through them Luc, you might find a personal favourite too.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
What the hell is an overwhelming majority of experts?
Over 80% of climate scientists accept the proof of AGW.
What makes their opinion more acceptable than the general majority?
Years of learning and experience.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Count on it. His first kid is a fuck-up by his own admission, no doubt the leftist thought that twisted Luc’s mind ended up destroying Luc Junior 1. Hopefully Luc Junior 2 realises this quickly and gets out early.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
And Chicken, if you do a little research you will find that those emails are out of context and misinterpreted.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Luc
Where is the proof 80% of climate scientists accept AGW?
And do not source ICC they are now proven corrupt.
Your years of learning and experience has made you delusional.
How old are again?
November 27th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Hey Inventory2
Why should you take thrill from the efforts of Bond?
WTF has it got to do with you? yeah “basker in the glory light of others’ achievements”
November 27th, 2009 at 12:04 am
Luc has hundredz of lerning. He read a book by George Monbiot about it.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Hurf, you have been good till now. Too many drinkies?
Actually, my baby is, including 2 stepchildren I have raised from a tender age, Junior No 5.
And they all love me still, even the ones whose Mums are no longer my wife.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:10 am
Have you read the emails Luc?
How about the documents? Are they out of context?
The quote from ‘Harry’ is from HARRY_READ_ME (which I think will become the most famous computer file ever in the next few months). Harry is the guy trying to sort out the Dataset and modeling software. ‘Harry’ has a Phd and is an expert Climate Scientist. Poor ‘Harry’ thinks the dataset is ‘completely useless’. ‘Harry’ also notes in this document how he has been ordered to insert made up data to get closer to the model. I shit you not.
Maybe you need to do a little more research Luc
The full file is up on multiple torrents. Have look for yourself. Have a look at the entire email strings and see if they’re out of context. Have a look in the docs at HARRY_READ_ME. Go on I dare ya.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:11 am
Jeez pentwig, it’s a bit late to dig it up again, but it was a worldwide survey by the University of Illinois, from memory.
As for how old I am, maybe you should ask my 14mth old daughter.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:14 am
pentwig, here you go…
http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf
November 27th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Hurf and Luc
I caution our talents, in which light we respectfully bask – “colours – pole – too soon” Ideals are the end, and by a sleep to say!
November 27th, 2009 at 12:19 am
and here’s an extract:
It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes. The challenge, rather, appears to be how to effectively communicate this fact to policy makers and to a public that continues to mistakenly perceive debate
among scientists
QED
November 27th, 2009 at 12:22 am
Luc have you read any of the emails?
Have you read any of the documents?
November 27th, 2009 at 12:24 am
I understand the nuance of deleting emails to prevent them being released under a Freedom of Information request.
“waaaaaaaaaah all dey wont to do iz poke holes in it,” yeah, testing your theory is sort of the point. Eco-socialists yelling THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED is hardly that.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:33 am
chicken
yes.
Hurf
that was naughty of them. But that’s not about the science, it’s about paranoia. There is a difference.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:44 am
Yes what?
You’ve read the emails? How are they used out of context then? Please explain. Just cite the email # you’re talking about and we’ll have a look at it, OK?
You’ve read the documents? What did you think of HARRY_READ_ME. Devastating isn’t it? Shows conclusively, in their own words, that they made the data fit the ‘models’. Is that how you think science should work?
Anyway, the kids will be up a 6am so I better try and get a bit of shuteye.
I think I’ll make you my ‘special’ friend Luc, you seem so smart and all.
Talk to you tomorrow Luc ;0
November 27th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Luc
However, attempts to quantify
the scientific consensus on anthropogenic
warming have met with criticism.
For instance, Oreskes [2004] reviewed 928
abstracts from peer-reviewed
research
papers and found that more than 75%
either explicitly or implicitly accepted
the consensus view that Earth’s climate
is being affected by human activities.
Yet Oreskes’s approach has been criticized
for overstating the level of consensus
acceptance within the examined
abstracts [Peiser, 2005] and for not capturing
the full diversity of scientific opinion
[Pielke, 2005]. A review of previous
attempts at quantifying the consensus and
criticisms is provided by Kendall Zimmerman
[2008]. The objective of our study
presented here is to assess the scientific
consensus on climate change through
an unbiased survey of a large and broad
group of Earth scientists.
An invitation to participate in the survey
was sent to 10,257 Earth scientists.
So the paper you was contentuous and only sent to 10,257 Earth scientists.
Looking at the fraud now discovered who can believe that crap?
It was obviously slanted from the start.
The whole credibility of climate change is now in doubt.
Let the unbiased data flow!!
November 27th, 2009 at 12:46 am
I downloaded the 63MB from wikileaks and saw the £5M grant to the Rus for the field trips. Then I saw the claim of credibility because the Rus corroborated – hence the Raw deletions did not matter.
Then I realised that this was big.
November 27th, 2009 at 5:41 am
“But that’s not about the science, it’s about paranoia. There is a difference.”…exactly Luc its not about science..its about the climate scientists creating an atmosphere of fear..thats the difference..dont forget these emails and documents were not from just “scientists” but from the “leading climate scientists” who essentially defined the paradigm(AGW),and as a we all know some of the greatest scientitific discoveries have come from scientists who have challanged the accepted paradigm..
November 27th, 2009 at 6:11 am
With the removal of the provocation defence, now you can bully all you like because your victims will be prosecuted should they react!
November 27th, 2009 at 6:31 am
So, we now have a law that disallows anyone from defending themselves in court against any changes where they have been provoked beyond their mental capacity to cope with any abuse, mental or physical.
The only MP’s to oppose the removal of the defense of provocation were the ACT MP’s.
The rest of the slimeballs colluded to usurp hundreds of years of legal argument that forms the case history of law. A totally predictable, emotional reaction to one high profile murder.
Appalling but not surprising.
Apparently it was to save the gays and women according to Charles Chauvell.
Provocation defense gone
Friday, 27, Nov, 2009 12:01AM
The partial defense of provocation can no longer be used in court.
MPs, sitting under urgency, have passed the Crimes Provocation Repeal Amendment Bill into law by 116 votes to five.
ACT was the only party to vote against the law change.
Labour’s Charles Chauvel told ACT’s MPs that opposing the bill was an insult to the victims of violent crime. Mr Chauvel said they should be ashamed for sanctioning a defense that legitimizes violence against gay men and against women.
Where was Findlayson who is supposed to stand up for the integrity of the law making process. He should resign forthwith as should all the other lawyers that sit in that house and supported this legislation. Appalling.
Before you all beat me up, no women or man that is driven to that point by another individual now has any defense no matter how heinous the provocation. Think about that.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:35 am
valeriusterminus,
can you elaborate on your earlier post please? whats Rus and the corroboration?
November 27th, 2009 at 6:47 am
Skepticism of AGW and climate change is healthy. How many peer reviewed papers are there in total on the topic?
If Anthony Watt is having is having a balanced look at it he will have surely collated them too? But that’s not likely, the policy adviser to the Science and Public Policy Institute is Monckton, and the institute financed the film Apocalypse No. So this is more likely to be one sided.
“While the SPPI seems primarily to be the work of Robert Ferguson, it also features on it website the work of other prominent climate change skeptics who are involved with one or more other anti-Kyoto treaty groups.”
And yes, the source is important, it puts the balance (or imbalance) into context.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Labour, the Greens and the Maori Party supported the repeal bill and there were cries of “shame” when Act MP David Garrett said his party opposed it.
Alternate Ad Image Text Goes Here!
Mr Garrett said the central point in the Weatherston case was that the defence failed.
“Abolishing it suggests we don’t trust juries,” he said.
The repeal shifted the argument of provocation from juries to judges, who can consider it in sentencing.
“It makes more sense to put our trust in juries,” he said.”
November 27th, 2009 at 6:55 am
450 PEER-REVIEWED PAPERS SUPPORTING SKEPTICISM OF AGW